This App Entrepreneur Made $10,000,000 By Cloning A Viral Game

Ben Levy

Yeah, so I've got a crazy story for you guys. You might have seen the app **Wordle** recently. Have you guys seen it?

Sam Parr

yeah new york times just bought it you play

Ben Levy

Yeah, so the New York Times just bought it. About two weeks ago, one of my friends—he's a great mobile app developer and bootstrapper—basically said, "Oh, Wordle is going viral and there's no mobile app that everyone is using." So, the Wordle guy had put out this crazy story. He said he didn't want to monetize it; it was just a toy for his girlfriend. It went viral out of nowhere, which I don't know if I believe because he works at Mischief, and I'm not sure I'd totally buy that story. But that was his story to the media. So my friend was like, "Holy shit, there's a huge opportunity for someone to build the mobile app." This guy doesn't own the trademark of the name; it's kind of like he ripped off an old game show. So my friend built an app over the weekend and called it "Wordle." The app went viral. Basically, over the weekend, it got like 30,000 organic downloads and was at the top of the app store. My friend's one of those guys who likes to build in public, so he tweets everything. He always has; he used to put his portfolio up so you could see everything he's doing and put it out there.

Shaan Puri

Sam, by the way, this is going to support your "build in public" thesis. This is like the perfect case study of how you feel about building in public. I like it in theory; it's like the face tattoo thing, right? I like that other people do it, but I don't want to do it. And here's why: here's the cautionary tale. Like, when the DARE officer brings someone who's been in jail for drugs to the class, it's...

Sam Parr

It's like a before and after of meth. It's like bear wrecking. But Sean, explain what Wordle is because all I know is I don't play word games. I play real sports, and so I'm not trying... I don't waste my time with that. So when people ask, "What is this game?"

Shaan Puri

It's a game. Okay, so this is a simple game. You literally just Google "Wordle," click the first link, and you'll see five empty squares where you have to guess a word. There are no clues; it's not like a crossword. It's literally just guess a word. So, you type in a word. I always start with "irate" because Damesh from HubSpot said the word "irate" has three vowels, plus the letter "t" and the letter "r." So, you're getting a lot of common letters there. It's a great starting word. You type that word in, and then it will tell you either: - Gray, which means the letter is not in the word. - Yellow, which means it's in the word but you got it in the wrong spot. - Green, which means this is the right letter in the right spot. Then, you have, I think, five or six guesses to get the word in the end. The beauty of it is that at the end, you feel a sense of accomplishment. The whole thing takes you about two minutes to play, so it's really easy to play in that sense. If you get it right, it lets you share that you got it right, but it doesn't share what the word was. It shares something like what you're looking at now, which is the word and all these colors, but without the letters. It just shows the colors. So, it'll show somebody else, "Oh man, I started off not having any of the letters, then I got the 't' at the end, and then I got one letter at the end." So, that's what my fourth one looked like.

Sam Parr

I got

Shaan Puri

Right, so that's why you see that grid of green squares posted on Twitter. It started going viral on Twitter.

Sam Parr

and and and what what's like the score okay so I'm I mean just got it moist

Shaan Puri

but did you really just play that or are you watching a video

Ben Wilson

I think it's funny this morning

Sam Parr

I was trying

Ben Wilson

to just do like an illustration you know just trying to get some accurate b roll

Sam Parr

alright so I understand so people have been sharing this like crazy and dharmesh the founder of hubspot

Shaan Puri

he plays a daily stream

Sam Parr

He even built a competitor to it as well. So, your buddy Ben Levy, what's this guy's name?

Ben Levy

his name's zach shaked

Sam Parr

and what's the name of the app

Ben Levy

It was called Wordle, the app. So part of the story basically... He goes and builds this app, he tweets, "Holy shit, this is the fastest growing app I've ever built!" You know, he's built 10 other businesses, they've all done really well, but this is the only one that's like growing organically like crazy. And he basically... the Wordle creator sees it and he's like, "Yo." He gets on the phone with him, he calls him and he's like, "Hey, this just doesn't feel right."

Shaan Puri

By the way, this whole thing is just happening in a Twitter thread. Ben sends me the first tweet. He's like, "Yo, Zack's..." because I met Zack through Ben. He's like, "Yo, Zack actually cloned Wordle." Next tweet: "Look at this shit!" He's tweeted out a graph; it's going crazy. Third tweet: Someone says, "Dude, you just ripped off Wordle. You're gonna get whatever suit or something, and you know you don't know the trademark for this." He goes, "What trademark?" So, I'm seeing the...

Sam Parr

tweets play

Shaan Puri

... out in real time and he's bragging. He's bragging about how good it's doing and he's like, "There was no app, now I'm dominating this! I'm getting all these free downloads, this is amazing!" And he's just tweeting update after update. Okay, so Ben, pick it back up. So then somehow the Wordle guy gets in touch with him...

Ben Levy

So, the Wordle guy DMs him and he's like, "Yo, let's get on the phone." My friend Zach is like, "Hey, you don't own the trademark. I know nobody owns it. There are a bunch of other apps called Wordle before this, but let's partner or something." The guy's like, "I don't... you know," he basically said some version of, "I don't do this for money. This is just fun." You know, ironically, he sells to The New York Times like a week later, but that's separate. So, my friend gets off the phone with him and he's like, "Alright, I'm gonna talk to a lawyer. I'm gonna figure out what I should do. Clearly, there's no ability for us to work together here." Then, like 20 minutes later, some big tech reporter dunks on him pretty aggressively and he's like...

Sam Parr

dun dun dunks on who your buddy or the original creator

Ben Levy

On Zach, my friend, he basically says something like, "Wow, an app developer has no ethics. Clones Wordle, bragging about how he's at the top of the App Store." Then, you know, when that happens, everyone goes and looks at Zach's past tweets. Ironically, he had two tweets from about six months ago. He tweeted, "I hate app clones. Someone's cloning my app, and I'm gonna..." you know, he basically disputed every app that was cloning his old app and posted a big thread about how app clones are the shittiest people.

Shaan Puri

did did he call them like scumbags or something yeah

Ben Levy

he was like

Sam Parr

scum of

Shaan Puri

the earth

Ben Levy

or something scums of the earth that you're copying my app and then he also

Shaan Puri

wait wait

Sam Parr

you said you said the word ironic so was he being serious

Ben Levy

No, he was being serious. It was ironic that he tweeted that and then he was being opportunistic. He also tweeted, "At the beginning of the year, I have two goals for 2022: be more vulgar and make $10,000,000 this year." So he just proceeded to get dunked on really aggressively. People started buying his domain and were like, "You know, I'm going to dispute every app you've ever made. I'm going to make sure that everyone knows you're the worst of the worst." So basically, that's what happens. Apple ends up pulling down every single one of his apps.

Shaan Puri

he calls you right somewhere in the middle here he calls you for some advice right

Ben Levy

Yeah, so he calls me in the middle of this and he goes, "Hey, this is crazy! The app is doing really well. I think this is a big business. You know, I know how much these apps convert from free to paid. This is just growing organically. This is a $10 to $100 million mobile app here. What would you do?" I was like, "Well, I think, you know, ethically, I'm not sure. I think you did kind of copy him, but I get that this is version 1 and you're going to make it better. I could buy that. But right now, you're probably stuck; like the mob has you." But he's like, "Well, maybe there's a Trumpian version to this where, like, you know, I kind of own that. This is my approach and I'm doing it. There is no trade war."

Shaan Puri

Apologize, apologize, put up the white flag, take it away... These are options on the table, right? I could just say: 1. "Sorry, I did wrong." 2. "Sorry I said what I said, and I'm gonna make these changes. I'm gonna change the name, I'm gonna make some concessions." And then there was "go full Trump." And "full Trump" was like just lean into it and... yeah.

Sam Parr

But you could do that in a non-back down, non-douche way. What you could say is: > "Yeah, look, we're not claiming to be innovators here, but we are executors. We find things that are great and we make them available for the masses. Sue me." That's like the way that you could take this. That's what Rackspace Internet says. They go: > "We're not innovators, we're executors. We're operators."

Shaan Puri

so so how did the conversation go ben when when you guys talked about these options

Ben Levy

Yeah, so basically I was like, "You know, I think those three options are on the table." And he was like, "Yeah, but I don't think... you know, I don't think we're really doing anything wrong." Like, you know, "Yeah, there is no mobile app, so while people can think that, I think it's fine." So he basically is like, "I'm gonna double down." You know?

Shaan Puri

By the way, this other guy didn't create Wordle. There was a... you're saying there was a game show back in the day that was the same game? He created a web version of it, is that right? Because I think that changes it too, which is like... this guy also copied this show, right?

Sam Parr

It looks like this guy, Zach, redid the app but called it "Word Love."

Ben Levy

Well, that’s later in the story. That’s like after Wordle got shut down in the App Store. He recreated a new, you know, another word game. Let’s somehow...

Shaan Puri

literally just shut down all the clones or just him

Ben Levy

Yeah, they shut down everyone that was using the name "Wordle" after that. To clarify, there was a game show that Wordle was based on. I think the guy's story was like, "I did this for my girlfriend; it wasn't for profit," so he didn't get crucified for it.

Shaan Puri

so so and what did apple say why did they say they could just take down all these things or you don't know you don't know why they just

Ben Levy

They took down no statement. They just took down every Wordle app and said, "You know, you don't own this trademark. You're being taken down because we decide what we do with it."

Sam Parr

So, I'm not a lawyer here, obviously, but I have done some trademark stuff. I'm almost positive that someone's going to correct me, but I'm almost positive that even if you don't own the trademark, you can make the argument that if you're the first or the most popular, and if there's a general consensus that when people think of this name, they think of you, then these other clones or these other people trying to act like they're you, the courts tend to favor your side. Even if you don't own the trademark, just because they don't literally have that trademark, there is probably some... you know, you would probably win.

Ben Levy

Yeah, I think that's probably true. He knew that there was some argument that there had been other apps called "Wordle," but it was pretty clear that they would have a good case. So, he proceeds to kind of double down on it and gets dunked on aggressively. Basically, he doubles down a little bit and says, "No, this is based on the game show. You don't own a trademark." I'm looking at it now; there are versions of that. Then it goes completely viral. Like, 10,000 people in the tech Twitter circle are dunking on him. There are articles...

Shaan Puri

Can we stop for a second? Why was his goal to be more vulgar for 2022? Why was that a goal? That's such a random thing. You said that, and my mind is still wondering why that was his goal.

Sam Parr

goal goal goal goal goal be more aggressive

Ben Levy

I think he meant to be more aggressive. When he sees opportunities, he should be more assertive and, you know, be as aggressive as possible when opportunities present themselves.

Shaan Puri

okay

Ben Levy

Which clearly was what this was. So he went hard, he got dunked on, and basically what happened was: - People bought his domain - People squatted on his names (zachshaked.com) - They were like, "We're gonna go vote down every single app you own" - "We're just basically gonna attack you" This aggressive response from the community shows how badly his actions were received.

Sam Parr

oh and so how's this gonna happen how's how's this end

Ben Levy

So, I mean, basically it ended with him shutting the app down, as you'd expect. Now he's making a new word game because he likes the word game space. But I think his... when I was talking to him about it earlier, he was like: > "You know, the biggest thing for me is building in public is not always good. Like, the fact... by building in public, I just assumed this was great for me." And this is the really dark side of him building in public.

Shaan Puri

Well, dude, let's be more specific. He had **$10,000,000** in his hands and decided that the tweet "love for talking about what he was doing" was worth that. If he had just stayed as an anonymous developer, put it under some shell company developer name, and left it in the store without bragging about it, it wouldn't have been picked up by journalists. The story isn't that there are other apps in the store called Wordle that are owned by different people. That's not the story. The story is: look at this guy cloning this thing, ripping it off, bragging about it, and then getting criticized on Twitter. If he had just not done that, then it doesn't get to Apple. I think there's a pretty good chance he gets away with it because I know the App Store is full of clones. For example, Flappy Bird had tons of clones. Every slot machine game... people don't know this, but random apps like slot machine apps produce the most revenue in the App Store. And, you know, nobody really cares about it; they're under these random holding companies.

Sam Parr

if you

Shaan Puri

don't talk about it

Sam Parr

you crush it up you shut up

Shaan Puri

yeah it's when you're not crushing it that you wanna talk about it as soon as you start crushing it zip

Sam Parr

Yes, when you're doing well, you only talk about it when you're not doing that well or when you are doing so well that you think that, like, you know, you can't catch up.

Shaan Puri

That's why people are always like, "Why don't you talk about your e-commerce thing? Like, why is it working? What do I need? What do I need to tell you guys about it for?" Yeah, and...

Sam Parr

I also think that transparency

Shaan Puri

I favor transparency with people I trust, not strangers on the air.

Sam Parr

I don't value transparency

Shaan Puri

Well, it's like this: if it's my wife, my family, or my coworkers, alright, I'll give you transparency. I don't owe you, my Twitter follower or even my podcast listener, to tell you my every detail. I'll be very honest with you: I tell people things when it's beneficial to me, and I don't when it's not. And I actually recommend that strategy to anybody. There's no force... there's nobody forcing you to tell everybody everything when there's no gain to be had for you.

Sam Parr

yeah

Shaan Puri

I think actually clear downsides and

Sam Parr

This guy just totally screwed it up. He should've shut up. You just gotta shut up sometimes, and that's really hard. It's the "building in public" thing, man. And also, it impacted the Wordle guy. Now he got all this competition and he had a lot of stress. I think that when you're doing well, you just shut up. You don't talk about it.

Ben Levy

Yeah, and I think, you know, part of it becomes your identity. Like, I'm the "building in public" guy, so I do everything in public. And I think he was just like... you know, the type of guy that's like, "I'm really good at growth and I'm really good at building apps," and wanted some love for it, you know?

Shaan Puri

By the way, I recommend this guy's blog or subset because he actually does a good job of building in public. Like, he... what was the one that we were reading? I remember telling you, "Dude, this guy's stuff is actually really good." He had like no followers, or like, you know, not no followers, but he had a very small following. However, I thought his content was actually really interesting. He would talk about, "Alright, I'm gonna build this product because of this reason." So, the first thing I'm gonna do is go to, you know, Lean Domain Search. I'm gonna get a name generator for this. Okay, I got the name. Boom! Now I'm gonna go do this. Boom! Here's how I do this. Boom! Alright, I'm gonna fire up some paid ads. Look, here's the dashboard. He was actually making progress. He wasn't just, you know, stuck in theory. He was actually getting users, getting revenue, and he was, again, giving out a ton of value. So, I was like, "Oh cool, I like to learn all this stuff. Great, thank you very much." In those projects, the trade probably worked, right? He got interest, respect, and attention, and he gave up, you know, just a little bit of knowledge. But in this case, it did not pay off.

Ben Levy

Yeah, and he openly shares all of his app numbers. Like that link I just dropped, zach.so/dashboard, you can see all of his app numbers, all the churn. So it's a big part of his identity and he's really good at it. But you know, sometimes it doesn't always pay to... pay to build in public.

Sam Parr

Dude, cornrows and face tattoos... it's cool that other people do it, but not for me.

Shaan Puri

Yeah, the other thing is like identity... be real careful what your identity is because your identity comes with some serious trade-offs. People have an identity and then they'll use it to build a little prison for themselves. Here's the walls and chains that I put on myself by labeling myself in this way. I like to... [pause] I like when people would be like, "Oh, I thought you said this the other day," and I'm like, "Yeah, changed my mind."

Sam Parr

speaking well listen

Shaan Puri

you know done

Sam Parr

Speaking of prisoners and building an identity, I saw that someone did a survey—like a reputable source, but I forget who conducted it. They asked young folks, Gen Z, who they follow for crypto and NFT advice. It was like, I think they surveyed hundreds of thousands of people. Pomp was number one for the most trusted person. Pomp is like our friend; he started out as just a guy on Twitter, and now he's pretty official. How on earth does this guy do so much? He's got a 200,000-person email list that he talks to, I think, every day.

Shaan Puri

every day

Sam Parr

he's got a daily business show and I think he

Shaan Puri

He has a lot of YouTube content, multiple hours. It's a professionally produced morning show, meaning he's there on camera with his brothers. They've got an agenda, a rundown of stories they're going to cover. It's like a news show, a business news show. I think it's called "The Business News Show" or something like that.

Sam Parr

business show

Shaan Puri

He does a business show for multiple hours every morning.

Sam Parr

And I think I was with him and his wife a while ago, and she was joking. She's like, "Man, he writes all of it. I don't know how he does it, but he writes really fast." How on earth does this guy have this much output?

Shaan Puri

I have a tremendous amount of respect for that because I know how hard that is. There's not usually people I look at and say, "I couldn't do that," but I know when I look at that, I couldn't do it. There's no way I could maintain that level of output. At the same time, I would not want to do that. That is not a problem I want to build for myself.

Sam Parr

I don't think he's going to be able to keep it. He won't be able to sustain that for more than 2 or 3 years.

Shaan Puri

yeah that's crazy

Sam Parr

His... he's got like an empire. What do you... how big is his empire, you think? Do you think he's making more money from selling stuff as opposed to actual Bitcoin?

Shaan Puri

We speculated on this before, so let's... I don't know if we've kind of done this for you. Do you want to do it again? Yeah, okay, fair enough. So, he's got a couple of components, right? He's got the paid Substack. There's a free version of it, but the daily one I think goes to a paid group. Ben, do you know roughly what the paid size is? I think it's something like 70,000 people paying about $10 a month or something like that. I want to say it's like 70k-ish, so that would be what, $700,000? By the way, I don't do public math. That was stolen from Pump. Pump said that, and I thought it was hilarious and stole it because I think it's an amazing rule to live by. So, he's got about 200,000 people total on his list, and he's got, I think, 70 that are in the paid groups. Let's just call it that. Then he's got a job board. I think the job board we had heard or we had kind of investigated looked like he was doing about $1,000,000 a year. That's CryptoJobs.com or something. So then he said, "Alright, you learn about crypto from me, you want to work in crypto, boom!" He also has sponsors on all the newsletters. So at the end of every newsletter, it's like, "Thanks to these 10 companies." He rolls the credits.

Sam Parr

and if I had

Shaan Puri

to guess that

Sam Parr

If he has 200,000 free subscribers, that would be around **$100,000 to $200,000** a month in sponsor revenue.

Shaan Puri

So, we're at that. I think what we've just added up to is about **$2 to $2.5 million** a year.

Sam Parr

and then the his videos course is he does

Shaan Puri

About $1,000,000 a year on his Bitcoin course, which I don't think he even shows up for. Or maybe he does, but I think he's got teachers. It's like pretty automated. So let's add another million there. That's, let's say, $3.5 million on the course. Then there's investing. Investing is probably where the real money is to be made. It's very hard to say, kind of, what both crypto investing—like buying Bitcoin and other tokens—as well as investing in companies that serve the crypto economy. That's kind of like... and he had a fund. The fund was pretty big. Ben, how big was the fund? But he closed it; he returned all...

Sam Parr

the investments dollars

Shaan Puri

100 no that that was the fund he was at before this

Sam Parr

I think sorry

Shaan Puri

his personal fund which is like the pop rolling fund or whatever

Sam Parr

oh yeah

Shaan Puri

I think it was like $25 million a year or something like that, which is the equivalent of a $100 million fund. So I think he was doing $20 to $25 million a year. Again, these are all plus or minus 50%.

Sam Parr

So, his YouTube channel got **4,000,000 views** in the last 30 days. I bet his podcast is around where we are.

Shaan Puri

But dude, YouTube at 44,000,000 views is... that's like $4,000 something. YouTube pays like nothing on just the views. But maybe his sponsors... it's probably because I think his "Best Business Show" has its main sponsor that's like...

Sam Parr

Yeah, it's Sofi because one time I got in trouble because I disrespected them when they were... well.

Shaan Puri

they're not a sponsor anymore right so can you tell the story

Sam Parr

Yeah, so basically one time The Hustle wrote an article about SoFi's CEO getting in trouble for... I don't remember what. Was it a sexual thing or was it fraud? Something like that. And in the headline we wrote "SoFi? More like So Fucked!" and they bailed as a sponsor. I told that story on his podcast and he got really... he wasn't mad, but uncomfortable. Yeah, I was like, "Well, you just tell him I said it. You didn't say it, I said it." So SoFi, I can't...

Shaan Puri

You're like a menace, yeah, to the SoFi marketing team. They're like, "God, everywhere we go, this guy comes in and hits the same SoFi 'so fucked' joke."

Sam Parr

It's a good joke. It's a good joke. So anyway, I would say he's in the huge range of $57,000,000 a year, just off like pump.

Shaan Puri

Per, that's income, right? They're not even counting the sort of equity value. That's because there's also Bitcoin Pizza, which was his ghost kitchen he launched. What else is there, Ben? He's got merch. Is he a merch? I think he's got merch.

Ben Levy

yeah he's got merch

Shaan Puri

What are the other parts of his empire, his pump empire? He's got his brother, so I really respect that. Anybody who's got the "when I eat, we all eat" mentality, I respect that. He brought his brothers along. One brother, Joe, does awesome content about the business of sports. His other brothers are his co-hosts for "The Best Business Show." When I asked him, I was like, "Dude, why are you signing up to do this morning show? There's so much work to do, a YouTube show every day for multiple hours." He said, "Yeah, but I'm just like, it's me hanging out with my brothers, shooting shit, busting each other's balls, and talking business." That's kind of what I would say is my ideal life: just hanging out with my brothers.

Sam Parr

I mean, I get it. I could do that. The problem is, let's say you want to take like a 3-week vacation, you know?

Shaan Puri

Yeah, there's a difference between "I like to do it" and "I have to do it," right? And he's in the "have to do it" phase it seems like right now, with where you're committed to a schedule.

Sam Parr

alright you want me to tell you about an interesting company

Shaan Puri

Yeah, actually, one plug there. So while Ben's here, I don't know when we're going to talk about the Milk Road, but I want to discuss my new project that Ben and I have launched—a new company. There is a version of this which is the one we were like, "Alright, this is a great idea," but there's one drawback: you have to write this email every day. It's the same thing; it's a prison. We were very conscious about it. It's like, "Ben, you want to sign up for this? This is the prison we're going to choose to be in." If this is what we choose, fine, but let's not get here and be surprised because that's the commitment we have to make. We work every night. So, Ben, at midnight, after the babies are asleep or whatever, is like, "Hey, here's the draft for tomorrow morning's email." Then I was up till 2 AM last night editing the thing. There's definitely a pain-in-the-ass component to it that I'm experiencing, which is one-tenth of what Pop does, but it's more than enough for me. And you did the same thing with us.

Sam Parr

Man, it's hard. I loved it. I mean, to me, it's like... I think I told you, it's almost like running a marathon or being in a fight or something. It's like you're scared to do it, you do it, and you get in the thick of it. You kind of enjoy it, and then you get to a point where you could take a break, and you're like, "This is horrible! I never want to do this again," which is how I felt last year. Then you get like 6 months out, and you're like, "Fuck! I miss the action! I need to get into it." So, it's really hard to write a newsletter every single day. To do any type of content creation every single day for more than a year is very, very, very hard.

Shaan Puri

Really tough, and we're only... what, less than a month into it? Ben, where are you at in the grind? I think we're giving it a year for how long you could tolerate this and sustain this pace. Where are you at right now? You're only in month 1.

Ben Levy

I'm still excited and it's still fun to research and write. However, I am at the point where I think, "Holy shit, Sean's a way better writer than I am." But I'm still enjoying it.

Shaan Puri

yeah sometimes I I I go into edit I'm like oh let me just touch up this little wordsmith and then like I overhauled the whole thing because I'm like oh no I think this could be better and I'm like actually it was fine before but like I just can't help myself like last night actually this is an interesting. To talk about sam actually so so we should say 2 things 1 we'll talk about what this company is and why we started it basically every year me and ben have started one company last year's company was the ecommerce company and we grew that from 0 to about 10,000,000 in revenue profitably and we and to do that like never had done a physical product before never like never knew how to get things manufactured and all that never had been spending like you know $200,000 a month on facebook ads and being responsible for that return and making sure you don't grow broke so so that was the adventure last year this year we were like what do we wanna do and we basically were like whatever it is it's gotta be in either crypto or like kinda like teaching / audience building that's the stuff I like to do crypto is like the topic me and ben are obsessed with and that's why we came up with this thing called the milk road which is basically it's an email you get every day and we just say it's kinda like it's the way I got it's the way I got good at crypto which was my buddy furcon who's way smarter than me he was like he you know he bought ethereum in the crowd sale he bought he was mining bitcoin back in the day like this guy's just been ahead of the curve on stuff he's a he's an engineer and every day he basically just sends me like 3 links he's like yo check this out you've seen this I'm always like no I haven't seen it and then I'm always like wait what is this why is this interesting and he's like oh so the reason this is cool is because a b c and he just breaks it down super simple for like a dumbass like me and I was like dude if I could just take that idea and provide that like as a newsletter like furcon doesn't care he's never gonna create a sub stack or a newsletter he's like too smart and too cool for all that shit but I was like if I could take that idea of like a smart friend just showing you 1 or 2 cool things a day that's going on in crypto and explaining it in simple plain jane english I think that that would actually be useful how many subscribers

Sam Parr

do you guys have

Shaan Puri

So we've been doing it for, I think, 3 weeks now, and we're at 16,500 as of today. It's grown... like last week we were at 10,000, so this week alone we've grown about 50%. What was...

Sam Parr

the cause

Shaan Puri

Two things: we turned on paid ads, and so you referred... or you have, you know, a guy who is good with this stuff. He's been helping us out. He's really good actually. Like, I've tried about 5 agencies for Facebook ads, and this guy's better than all of them.

Sam Parr

so how much are you spending to acquire an email

Shaan Puri

Right, I don't want to say that right now, but it's in the good range. Remember when you were like, "Yeah dude, back in the day it used to be X, now it's Y"? We're getting it for X still, but we also aren't spending a ton. So maybe as we spend more, that's going to go down. But honestly, there's such a big appetite for learning about crypto because people kind of know, "Alright, this seems like the next big wave." You know, there was the internet, there were mobile phones, there was the iPhone, and now crypto seems to be the big wave. It's super hard to keep up with, and I know there's money to be made. So I think the appetite is there. I think we're going to keep getting subscribers for pretty cheap because the appetite... I've never seen an appetite for content like this in my life. I've been trying to make content that people want, and I'm always talking about things I'm into, and like, you know, it's often like the more...

Sam Parr

name is good I think the name's pretty good and you're using that platform beehive is that any good

Shaan Puri

Beehive's pretty good. It's relatively new, so there are a lot of features we need. For example, if I do a partnership with somebody or if someone plugs us in their newsletter, or let's say we pay for Facebook ads, I need to know if that subscriber is worth the same as an organic subscription. Are they still opening it 20 days later? I need to know, based on where they came from, if they are still engaging. This information helps me determine where I should put my energy in spreading the word. They don't have features like that yet, but we're kind of working with them to say, "Yo, help us! We need X. Can you build it? We'll be your best customer if you can help us get what we need."

Sam Parr

Sick! I think it's going to work. I believe that you'll start seeing... well, you've already seen progress after one year. You're going to see a lot of progress, and then if you continue to do it for three years, then things really start to accumulate. The media really does compound. I didn't believe that it compounded because I'm like, "Well, it's not like subscription revenue necessarily." But then I realized, "Yeah, if I just continue doing this and get known, it compounds in terms of cultural relevance." That usually translates to revenue.

Shaan Puri

That's a good point. I've always said this, and I've always messed this up. That's the reason I keep saying it, mostly as a reminder to myself. The best advice I give to others is the advice that I've had to relearn five times because I just can't get it through my thick head. And that's that what you work on and who you work with matters way more than how hard you work. To put that another way, the most important decision you make is what project to work on. I'll tell you, I've worked on some really bad projects. For example, we did a hackathon and built this app called "Beer Hunt." It was like every time you drink beer, you take a picture of it and check it in.

Sam Parr

you got yeah but you don't give a shit about that

Shaan Puri

and it's like and people got excited why because oh beer everybody loves to like it would get a big reaction anytime we told somebody about it they'd they'd laugh they'd they'd be like oh that's cool I'll send this to my buddy or whatever and so peep people liked it who were especially craft beer types but I wasn't a craft beer type and also like I didn't have the filter of like dude if I'm gonna do anything it's gonna basically take up all my time for like 3 years minimum is this the one right and and I was treating it like a you know like a hookup and I should have been treating it like marriage because projects are more like marriage really when they like once you decide to do them you're gonna do them for multiple years right like and so so I've chosen a bunch I did a sushi restaurant horrible project beer app horrible project tried to build the next big social network and messaging app worked so hard built cool shit but like the fucking hardest industry to like you know you're just running around with a bottle trying to catch lightning so my project selection has been horrible to date the best project I ever selected was this podcast and then the you know the ecommerce one was okay not not great it like it's successful but it's more successful just because I got better at business it's still a really hard business to be in and kind of a a roll up your sleeves type of business to do I think this is probably the the next best like I think I finally did project selection right and the reason why is I think that crypto is as important as like you know mobile apps and iphone was in kinda like 2,009 2,008 2,010 maybe and as important as like the internet was back in like 1999 I think that's true and when there's a huge wave happening it kinda doesn't matter exactly what you do you just need to make sure you're out in the water paddling with your board and I had been kind of like I had been investing and thinking about it but like it wasn't my job it wasn't my job to think about it every single day what this newsletter does like I don't know if the news I don't know if the media business is gonna be amazing I think it could be but even if it's not the fact that my job is that every day I have to learn 2 amazing thing like 2 interesting things about crypto and be able to explain it to tens of thousands of people that is like that is a job that I think is gonna pay off in weird ways I could think of I think we're gonna get into good investments because people are gonna be like oh cool yeah you guys got that big distribution yeah we want you in this project yeah

Sam Parr

I mean that's what

Shaan Puri

I'm gonna find

Sam Parr

that's what happened with the hustle

Shaan Puri

Right, and it's like, "I'm gonna find cool projects because I literally have to say something interesting tomorrow morning at 7 AM when this email goes out." I'm not gonna say something boring, so that means I gotta learn something every day. That means I'm turning myself into kind of like a learning machine. So that is why I think this is the right project. And the reason I share this is because I think it's the most important decision you make in any project you do, in any endeavor you do. It's just at the beginning: what project you decide to go for.

Sam Parr

Dude, I... I... I think that's wonderful! I'm reading three books on this topic. The first is called **"The Wanting,"** which Andrew suggested. That's why I bought it; he mentioned it on this podcast. It's about **mimetic desire.** The second one is **"The Daily Laws."** It's about the **48 Laws of Power** and mastery, along with other great books by a guy named **Robert Greene.** You read just one page a day, and the whole first section that I'm continuing to reread is about how to find what you care about. It's really great because you want to find things that energize you when you get into them. I've done a lot of copywriting, which I think is fun sometimes, but when I do it, I'm like, "Ugh, I gotta get this done." I'll be like, "Fine, I'm going to finish this by 1 o'clock on Monday." I realized something a couple of years ago when I moved apartments. I remember the mover coming, and I had planned for a week. I was like, "Alright, we're going to get all these boxes, stack them here, and the movers are going to come at 8 o'clock. I'm going to be there to lift everything up." I got up at 5 AM because I couldn't sleep. I was so excited to move and physically set up the new place. I was thinking about that when I was figuring out what I'm going to do next. That's one of the reasons why I'm getting into short-term rentals right now.

Sam Parr

I'm trying to make a point about what gives you energy. It doesn't have to be what you said, but I don't actually think you meant it this way. You said, "I think this is a big deal," and I don't think that's why it excites you. It excites you just because... I don't know why it excites you, but literally, it's like a new money. That's kind of interesting. I don't think it would matter if everyone's talking about it or not. What excites you is literally the tiny minute details. For some reason, maybe it's the math or the idea of overthrowing the system. Something about that is really interesting to you. For me, I just love moving these boxes and moving into a new apartment. I don't know why I love doing that, but I love going out on the street, hunting for places, and talking to the guy at the bar. I ask, "What do you think about this neighborhood? Are all the hipsters moving here?" I love it! I get obsessed with it. What I was trying to do next is think about what gives me so much energy. I remember I cannot sleep the day before I have to move because I'm so excited.

Shaan Puri

That's so funny! But yeah, I think most people hate that, but you love it. Which is why it's even more valuable when the thing you get energy from is something that drains other people's energy. Like, bingo! You're going to outcompete everybody because for them, it's going to be work, but for you, it's going to be play. My coworker, this guy Paul Gebheim, told me this once. He said, "You should go talk at this event." I was like, "Why? Is it going to give growth to our app or are we going to recruit people?" He said, "No, you should go talk because you love talking." He explained, "Talking gives you energy, so you're going to love it." I was surprised and said, "What?" He continued, "For most people, if they had to give a talk in front of a bunch of people, they'd be drained by the time they even get up on the stage. Afterwards, there'd just be finally some relief from the anxiety they've been feeling." He said, "You're the opposite." I noticed that he was right. He compared it to going to the gym. He said, "You go to the gym, and if you just look at the math, there's a lot of energy expended working out. But how do you feel after you work out? You feel physically a bit tired, but your actual spirit feels energized. You give energy, and somehow you get energy in that moment." He added, "There are some things that are energy drains, even though they're not that taxing. Just think about filing your taxes for the next 20 minutes. You'll feel awful by the end of it. You'll need a nap or a drink. On the other hand, if you do stuff that gives you energy... you can audit your calendar. Highlight in green the things that give you energy and put in red the things that suck your soul. If you want to have a better life, you should probably just do more of the green stuff."

Sam Parr

I think that's that's great I think that

Shaan Puri

my my

Sam Parr

I've talked to a ton of people right now who are a mess. They're like, "You know, I've made a little bit of a name for myself."

Shaan Puri

should I do

Sam Parr

By my career, but like I don't even like it. What the fuck do I do? I'm like, yeah, it's tough, but you gotta find where... where you have to find what gives you energy. That doesn't necessarily mean what makes you happy, by the way, but what gives you energy.

Shaan Puri

Totally! Because it can be really challenging and frustrating at times. You know, it'll have highs and lows. In fact, I add this channel to every Slack that I do. So, like, I just put it in our eCommerce one because we just had a big low where we got "effed over" by this crazy unforeseen circumstance. And so, you know, my team gets so bogged down by these highs and lows. I was like, "Guys, remember, we stood in line to get on a roller coaster. Why are we surprised when there are highs and lows? That's what a roller coaster does!" Like, if you didn't want the thrill, you know, we can go sit in the grass over there. We don't have to be on a roller coaster.

Sam Parr

but line I'm stealing that

Shaan Puri

And it's like, you know, I created a Slack channel called "Highs and Lows." I said, "Well, now we have a place to put it," which is in itself like therapy. It's like, "Ah dude, this is gonna be an epic low that I put in there." We wrote the low and then we started writing some highs that we've had. It just... it's what you should expect. Don't be surprised when the roller coaster goes up and down. When you stood in line to get on the roller coaster, you were excited about going on this roller coaster. You know, that's what you wanted. You wanted the adventure. And so, you know, I think that's like a good tip for really any business.

Sam Parr

that's a great line

Shaan Puri

With the Milk Road, which is the name of the crypto email that Ben and I send out every day. You can go to milkroad.com. I bought the domain, by the way, for $2,000. I think it's a pretty good buy, right?

Sam Parr

that's good buy 2 grand for milkroad.com buy yeah I'm I I would I would have thought you had the dotco

Shaan Puri

We had Milkroad.xyz, and it was just such **bullshit**. People couldn't even load the thing. I don't know why, but like MilkGrove.com. So when we started writing this, I was like, "Alright, I found my thing now." I found my thing when I was probably like 32 or something like that, right? It took me 12 years, maybe, to figure out what's the thing that gives me energy. Mine was, "I just want to get paid to be curious." What does that mean? I don't know. Every day, I hear about different stuff. I'm reading about things, I'm talking to people. Wouldn't it be great if just going and learning that thing was somehow how I got rich and famous? Wouldn't that be dope? The podcast does that. It lets me just be curious. I could be like, "Oh, someone's making a bunch of money selling turnkey tailgates to universities. How does the economics of that work?" That shouldn't be something I get the license to go spend three hours figuring out, but the podcast gives me that license. And cool, it gives me money and fame for doing it. Power and influence? Great as a byproduct. Then the second thing, the e-commerce one, for example, does not give me this, and that's why I don't think long-term, right? It's not me being professionally curious; it's more of an opportunistic thing. Milk Road is that because every day, I'm like... for example, yesterday, this guy came out with this thing that I think you'll find interesting. Most of the time, people talk about the prices. A lot of time, they talk about the price of crypto, which is kind of annoying once you stay in it for a while. But like, let's say the price of Ethereum right now is about $26,100 per ETH.

Sam Parr

it's not the thing where it

Shaan Puri

says it

Sam Parr

should be 5,000

Shaan Puri

Yeah, people come out and they should be there like, "Oh, ETH is going to $5,000! ETH is going to $10,000! ETH to the moon!" And like, 9 times out of 10, this is either hopes and dreams or it's just clickbait. Like, if I say, "I think Bitcoin's going to $5,000,000 a coin," guess what? That's going to get covered by a bunch of people. A lot of people are going to share it because it's outlandish. And hey, you know, please don't hold me to it. What are you going to do? I'm just making some far-fetched prediction about the future. The last one is they are using some weak logic. People do this with Bitcoin all the time. They're like, "There are 55,000,000 millionaires in the world and there's only 21,000,000 Bitcoin. There's not enough Bitcoin for the millionaires to all have one, so the price is going to go way, way up." And it's like, okay, I understand the general idea of what you're saying, but that's so unsophisticated compared to... and this is why Warren Buffett comes out and says Bitcoin is "rat poison" or it's "pure speculation." There's no fundamentals. That was like the common narrative. So what I thought was kind of cool was that...

Sam Parr

by the

Shaan Puri

Way, Ben just linked an article in the chat where I did the clickbait thing. I said, "I'm putting 25% of my net worth into Bitcoin." This was like, you know, a year and a half ago or something like that. I was like, "Because there's a wave of institutional capital coming in, I'm gonna front-run the wave." It just sounds great, and guess what? These news websites... *[pause]* Look at this, like, cringey. No way!

Sam Parr

picture my

Shaan Puri

face with a bitcoin

Sam Parr

what was the thing that happened

Shaan Puri

Alright, so this guy came out. He's like a kind of crypto quant investor. He's got his own fund or whatever, and he said, "You know, I actually think that there's a way to value Ethereum like you would value any stock—any stock of a company." He goes, "So how do you value a company? You value a company based on its cash flows." Well, guess what? Ethereum has revenue. So what's the revenue of Ethereum? Ethereum has revenue because of transaction fees. Now, this is not new, but there's something new about how Ethereum changed what it does with the transaction fees. So now you can value it. For example, Bitcoin has transaction fees, but the transaction fees get paid to miners. As a Bitcoin holder, you don't get that revenue. The miners all have different expenses; one guy's in Greenland, and his expenses are low because electricity is cheap there. So you could never really get the profits—the net profits—of Bitcoin transactions with the Bitcoin network because it really wasn't... that's not an accurate comparison. It was apples to oranges. But Ethereum has changed what it does with the fees, which now lets you create a valuation model. So what happens? Alright, an Ethereum transaction happens. Let's say it's a $100 transaction fee. Seventy percent of that is called the base fee. Do you know what they do with the base fee? Do you know where that goes?

Sam Parr

no I don't know anything what you're talking about to be honest

Shaan Puri

Okay, so you... well, I'll explain in the most simple terms. When there's a transaction in Ethereum, there's a fee, right? That's cool. Visa, Mastercard, everybody has a fee when you do a transaction. The Ethereum fee gets broken into two parts. There's the base fee, which is just burned. They take 70% of the transaction fee and just get rid of it. Why would you do that? Well, this is like when a company buys back stock—it's a share buyback. They basically buy stock on the open market and just get rid of it. What does that do? It shrinks the supply of the stock, which makes the price go up, right? There's less supply but the same demand, so the price goes up. So, Ethereum started doing this thing last year where it takes the fee and just buys back Ethereum and gets rid of it, which drives the supply down and the price up. Okay, cool, that's the first bit. The second bit is there's a tip—30% of the fee today—that goes to miners. But there's a... like the way Ethereum... there's like Ethereum 2.0.

Shaan Puri

When it [Ethereum] does that, that's going to go to the holders of Ethereum, to the long-term holders of Ethereum. So that's like a dividend being issued out. Now you have... now Ethereum has revenue, which last month was $1,300,000,000 in fees. So, real significant revenue. And we know that that value accrues to the holders of Ethereum.

Sam Parr

so what price target did did he put on it

Shaan Puri

So he does a model, he does a discounted cash flow model, and he basically says: Based on this revenue, based on this multiple, and based on this discount rate, the price target for Ethereum right now... the present value of Ethereum according to this model is **$10,000 per ETH**. ETH is trading at $2,600 [assuming the speaker meant 2.6k, not 22.6k]. If you believe this guy's model, it's undervalued currently by about 4x. And he put the model out there so anybody can go change it. You could say... [The speaker seems to have trailed off without finishing the thought about naming the person]

Sam Parr

what do I do when I read it

Shaan Puri

what was the name

Ben Levy

ryan alice a l I s

Shaan Puri

And so, you could say, "Okay, maybe he's got really aggressive assumptions in his model." Well, actually, he just used the average price-to-earnings multiple of the S&P 500. He assumed 25% annual growth for the Ethereum network over the next 20 years, which is not super aggressive. It grew like 1000% last year and 400% this year. You know, it's growing much faster than that right now. So, he used pretty conservative estimates. Now, there's always risks. I have this phrase I put in my newsletter this morning, which is that "more fiction gets written in Excel than in books." You can make an Excel model dance and make it look great just by tweaking two little variables. So, you always have to be careful with this stuff. You gotta do your own homework. But I found this to be really interesting because the common narrative is, "Oh, it's all speculation. It's got no intrinsic value. There's no fundamentals. There's no analysis you could do on it. You're just guessing what the next guy is gonna buy." And that actually is true for most coins. It was true for Ethereum until now. One of the best things you could do as an investor is spot when a common narrative is no longer true. Those are usually pretty big opportunities. So, anyways, I was up until 3 AM last night because I was learning what this guy's model looked like. I was kind of checking it for myself: does this make sense to me? I'm putting that in the newsletter as, "Hey, let me make this simple for you to understand. This is kinda cool." Even though that's a lot of work, that's a prison of my own making that I'm happy to do because I would rather...

Sam Parr

be a year than us be into this though for years I think you will be

Shaan Puri

that's the big tbd

Sam Parr

but that's the that's the I think you will be

Shaan Puri

Now I'm into it. I'm providing a **ton** of value. Nine months from now, or twenty-eight months from now, am I going to feel the same? I don't know, but hopefully, we can hire a writer who does feel the same.

Sam Parr

I think with most people, even the things they love... it does get boring sometimes. And then what you do is you walk away or you chill, and then you fall in love again. I mean, I have to imagine that even **Steven Spielberg** is like, "I don't want to make a movie this year."

Shaan Puri

right

Sam Parr

You know what I mean? I wonder what like Nadal or... what's the tennis player or the...

Shaan Puri

rafael nadal

Sam Parr

Yeah, I wonder what he thinks about something like tennis. I mean, Usain Bolt was like, "I don't even like training, man. I'm just doing this because I'm good at it." And it's like... right? I like winning, but I don't really love... I'm not in love with this right now, and like... I...

Shaan Puri

think that's normal I think that's natural

Sam Parr

And you see, even like fighters, like Dustin Poirier, when he beat Conor McGregor, he was like, "Man, I'm over this. I don't wanna..."

Shaan Puri

like doing this anymore

Sam Parr

I don't even like this anymore

Shaan Puri

Tom Brady just retired yesterday, right? And he's basically... he's 44 now, so he's been doing this for, you know, 20+ years professionally. He was like, "Football is..." He's like, "I still love the game, but football is a 365 days a year commitment for me." I don't know if you know about Tom Brady, but he like sleeps every day at like 8 PM. The guy who...

Sam Parr

Started like the T12 or whatever his thing is called, the T body or whatever his thing is called, that wanted to come on the pod.

Shaan Puri

oh really his his trainer yeah that guy alex I don't

Sam Parr

know if it's trainer or business partner but like he branded himself as the guy who started it

Shaan Puri

The T.B. 12 method... So, yeah, I think people do get burnt out. Tony Robbins has this thing he says, which is that people's number one need in life is **certainty**. You need to know where your next meal's coming from, if you've got a roof over your head, and where you're going to sleep. That's why we love relationships; we love the certainty and comfort of knowing who's going to be there, who you talk to, and what you do every day. We love routines. He goes on to say that, you know, God, in her infinite wisdom, made it so that the second biggest need we have is **uncertainty**, which is **variety**. It's like a seesaw. What do you do as soon as the thing is balanced? You start jumping around to mess it up, right? You gotta know that about your nature. It's completely normal to enjoy a structured routine and, at the same time, crave variation. It doesn't mean you don't like the thing or that it's not cool anymore; it's just that that's how humans are wired.

Sam Parr

Alright, sick. Let's wrap up here because I've got some stuff that I wanted to cover, but we didn't get through today. So, we'll save that for Monday, right? Monday?

Shaan Puri

cool producer ben what'd you think of the app

Ben Wilson

Good episode. Oh, let me try again. Good episode, Ben Levy. Good edition. Good story. Yeah, solid episode.

Shaan Puri

Ben, your meme was amazing! He did this meme which is like: I walked into Sean's office for an interview. "Is your name Ben?" "Yes." "You're hired!"

Ben Wilson

we're putting together a team if your name's ben and you're talented get it get at us we're how's

Sam Parr

your what was your what was your numbers in january ben I

Ben Wilson

I need to look it up. It didn't beat my best month, which was just below 100. My best month was 97 or something like that, and this was just below that.

Sam Parr

come on

Shaan Puri

so who what what's the latest who are you profiling right now what story are you telling

Ben Wilson

Well, I'm still in the middle of Walt Disney. I haven't put out part 2 yet, so I'm in the middle of that. What's also... I'm a bigamist, I'm a cheater when it comes to research. So I'm also doing a little research on other stuff too, yeah.

Shaan Puri

So, I know a fair bit about Walt Disney. What's like, give me one tidbit that's like...

Sam Parr

bet

Shaan Puri

you didn't know this or this is super what I found super fast give me one I haven't listened to that update

Sam Parr

he's optimistic and he went broke and bankrupt a few times right

Ben Wilson

Yeah, I mean, that was the most amazing thing to me. Actually, the tidbit that has blown my mind the most is there's a story where basically they're inventing cartoons of sound. They're showing it to this audience, and the audience is going crazy, right? So they keep showing it to them again and again and again. Finally, a couple of his animators are like, "We can't do this. It's 6 hours. They've been showing it to them. It's 2 in the morning." So they just go outside of the theater a little bit and are like smoking and talking. He comes out and he goes, "Yeah, what are you guys gonna do? You gonna stand out here talking about babies, or are you gonna come inside and change the world?" It blew my mind because I was like, if you just told me that quote out of context, I would have told you it was Steve Jobs. It's so similar. And then I just started putting it...

Shaan Puri

I would have thought it's sam parr when he said do you want your kids to have braces

Ben Wilson

And so, those are just like two stories that I'm breaking down now in the second episode. The similarities between their stories are actually kind of uncanny. They have a lot of weird similarities.

Sam Parr

Yeah, isn't it? I've always thought that with all types of people, you could basically categorize them. I was always trying to think about how many categories there are of people. I remember meeting some individuals and thinking, "Oh, you are this. You are exactly this human being." After listening to your podcast, I remember listening to Edison and thinking, "Oh, Elon is exactly like that." If I study Edison, I bet I can make sense of a lot of what Elon is doing and help predict what he might do. I wonder if you could do the same for someone like Steve Jobs and Walt Disney, where you just put them in the same category. I bet I can understand a lot of stuff because of that.

Shaan Puri

Ben, this is perfect for your consulting business that you've created off the pod. You know those DISC personality surveys where it's like, "You're a dominant, indifferent, or whatever," you know, like some bullshit like that? You're a red, blue, and you can get along with greens. You just need to do that with great people in history. It's like, "You're 42% Jobs," and actually, you know, "You're 42% Jobs and you're 60% Walt Disney." What does that mean? It's like, "Well, you're like Jobs in this way," and everybody just gets a compliment. It's like, "Oh yeah, I'm 82% Edison, actually, and I don't work well with Disney's."

Sam Parr

so this is the

Shaan Puri

same% wozniaks I need to find my job

Ben Wilson

yeah yeah do something like myers briggs over the top of it I like that

Sam Parr

yeah

Shaan Puri

alright all about making up fake personality quizzes I think that's great

Sam Parr

I gotta run. I gotta go get my workout in. It's about to snow and get freezing in Austin, like the first time in a long time. So, I gotta go.

Shaan Puri

go austin like shut down when it snows

Sam Parr

Yeah, it's stupid. Last year, we were shut down for like a week, but I didn't have power and water for 6 days. It was like 20 degrees, so it was kind of warranted.

Shaan Puri

By the way, speaking of one-liners, you said an amazing one after we recorded last week. You were just mentioning that Walt Disney quote. What was the one that you said that our buddy shared?

Sam Parr

he goes

Shaan Puri

I remember the line

Sam Parr

He goes, and this guy's like worth $100+ million dollars. He said, "People hate on 'get rich quick' schemes. Are they crazy? Getting rich quick is the best way to get rich! Why would anyone hate on that?" I love "get rich quick."

Shaan Puri

quick schemes I only wanna get rich quick yeah

Sam Parr

He goes, "You got a good get-rich-quick scheme for me? I love that!" This guy sold his company in like two years, so it was a get-rich-quick scheme.

Shaan Puri

it worked so funny

Sam Parr

alright see you guys