MFM Goes to Jail, Startup Cities, Julian Shapiro Building a Ranch, Testing Out Purchases, and More

Shaan Puri

And he's like, "You're afraid of me." And I was like, "Yeah, I'm afraid." He goes, "That's your truth."

Sam Parr

what's going on how was wednesday

Shaan Puri

It was good, man. Ramon was on. So, you know, Ramon is the best. Ramon came on and did his thing. He was the best.

Sam Parr

I'm happy for him. He's getting a bunch of wins right now, and that makes me happy for him.

Shaan Puri

yeah you where were you so you were doing something interesting that's why

Sam Parr

I got to come

Ben Wilson

back and tell a story

Sam Parr

Yeah, let me tell you what I did. I volunteered with this program called **The Last Mile**. It was started by my friend **Chris Redlitz**. Chris did a bunch of stuff; he was early at **Reebok**. So, he's 65 years old and was an early employee at Reebok when he probably became very financially successful there. Then, he started a company that he took public, and he also started a VC fund that I believe was quite successful. They were in on **Wish.com** and a few other things. He started this charity or nonprofit called **The Last Mile**. The whole vision behind this thing is basically... I'm not supposed to use the word "inmates." They've asked me not to use that word, but sometimes I'm still going to use it because that's what most people know it means. But basically, prison inmates are going to get...

Shaan Puri

out of what do they want you to say

Sam Parr

Well, it's a good terminology and a good way of thinking. Basically, they're like, "Well, look, we're trying to get them out of prison and into the mindset that they're going to be working and having a job." We don't want to refer to them as offenders or inmates, but as students.

Shaan Puri

but that would be confusing in this context okay

Sam Parr

yeah in this context yes and so I'm going to kind of go against these rules in this context so there's something like a 1000000 people in prison right and a lot of guys are there for 10 20 30 years for manslaughter for doing whatever they're gonna get out and whether you like that whether you forgive them for their crime or not the fact is is that they're gonna get out and so the last mile is teaching them how to code for about 2 or 3 years through a program and then helping them get jobs at like slack I believe ebay things like that and they've graduated I think 800 people out of prison who have went through their program and none of them have gone back to prison and I believe the average prison the average person who goes to prison I think it's like a 65% chance that they go back to prison right so the fact is that these guys like for example I was with this one guy who basically he caught his wife cheating and they got into an argument according to the news I googled it she like went to fight him with a hammer he grabbed the hammer and killed her and he was in prison for 20 years and I was hanging out with this guy which is weird that's weird you know that's like a mind fuck and he was like yeah I'm gonna get out in 3 years prior to this I was an engineer or sorry I was a salesperson at a pharmaceutical company I had a great job and I'm learning how to do javascript and mongodb so I can get a job at a tech company hopefully because no one's gonna hire me unless I go through this program and that's crazy right isn't that weird like I'm hanging out and I was with my wife sarah we're walking around this prison just hanging out with these guys and I get to know them and I'm like I would hang I mean you're nice enough you're right we would get along fine I had no idea you'd ever done this and they start opening up and telling me what they did and it's pretty amazing and it's amazing for a couple of reasons the first reason is that when you're in this like when you're so some guys are just like habitual criminals like I talked to this one guy I was like what was your job before this he was like oh I was a meth dealer I sold meth and I killed the guy we went to rob this house and I killed someone and and he was like besides killing them I was just a criminal I just did all types of crazy shit but once I learned how to do coding I actually got more logical where I realized that if I do this then this other thing is going to happen and so I started learning a lot about impulse control and I started learning about myself and so it's like learning how to code but also learning about yourself type of thing

Shaan Puri

like like if then statement for your life

Sam Parr

Yes, and so that's quite fascinating. The second thing is, you know, there's not a lot of Black coders, but unfortunately, there's a lot of Black folks in prison. These guys are learning how to code. We are in Indiana; it was mostly white people, but I've done this in San Quentin. For someone who graduates and leaves jail, and then goes back to an all-Black neighborhood, a lot of times it's these young kids. It's the first time they're going to meet a programmer who's Black and who looks like them. So not only are we helping these folks stay out of prison, but it's kind of cool that, you know, you're actually helping the diversity issue in tech. So, how the heck did...

Shaan Puri

This guy, Chris Redlitz, started this. It seems so random, from being an employee at Reebok to starting a VC fund. Where did this come from?

Sam Parr

I believe the story is that 10 years ago, he was dating a woman who volunteered at a prison. She was teaching, I think, math. She just got pulled into it at San Quentin. She lived in San Francisco, and someone was like, "Hey, Chris, can you come and talk about entrepreneurship to these inmates?" He was like, "I guess I'll go." He goes, and they're like, "Can you come again? Can you come again?" He's like, "I guess." Eventually, he was like, "Wow, you know, this is a major problem that I'm passionate about and I care about." So, he and his wife started a program. They went to Sacramento, the capital of California, and basically lobbied for this initiative. They said, "Hey everyone, we'll put up $100,000," you know, they were talking to the politicians, "would it be okay if we did a cohort for entrepreneurship in San Quentin?" Through friends of friends, they got in front of the right people, and it was approved. Then they thought, "Well, you know, entrepreneurship is okay, but teaching them how to code is way better." So, he starts doing that. Then he goes and convinces Apple, the Trump administration, the Koch brothers, and other wealthy individuals to donate money. Now they have this huge program.

Shaan Puri

That's kind of amazing. They've trained some huge number of people, right? Like, there are a lot of people in this program. Is that right?

Sam Parr

Yeah, they've got, I believe, that they only allow like 20 or 30 people per cohort. They have like 15 prisons doing it. By the way, if you're listening to this, well, they graduated, I think, a thousand people. I was going to say, if you're listening to this, I'm getting some of these numbers wrong. I didn't write all this down, so whatever I'm saying, divide by 2 and multiply by 2. So I think they have like a thousand people. But let me tell you something that's interesting. I was in this prison, and you want to know what's crazy? Dude, most everyone was really fat and out of shape.

Shaan Puri

and as a fitness influencer you just you couldn't you couldn't help yourself

Sam Parr

Well, here's why this is interesting to me. I was talking to Chris, and I was like, you know, everyone was fat, and the food that they give these folks is horrible. It was like white bread, bologna, and generic Oreo cookies. You can buy stuff, but he was like, "Yeah, well, you know, at some of the longer maximum security prisons, they're a little bit more fit." But yeah, it's a huge problem. In China, I was like, "Chris, if we gave these guys... look, I understand the idea of like, you committed a crime, you sacrifice privileges, whatever. But I think if we just gave them some better meat and vegetables for every meal and forced them to exercise—like, you've got to get up at 7 AM, and as a prison, we're going to do jumping jacks, push-ups, calisthenics, and you know, it's like the military—I think they would behave better. Ultimately, if your body works better, you're going to maybe behave and act a little bit better." He was like, "Yeah, you know, I think I agree, but even in American prisons, you can't force people to do anything. It's like against the law or against the rules." But I started thinking about this, and I think that's kind of interesting. They do this in China, and he was like, "Yeah, we saw Chinese prisons, and everyone is shredded because they make you do this."

Shaan Puri

Wow, okay. Did you know I've done a very similar thing? I got a couple of... like when you said you were doing this, I remembered back when I did this. So there's a group in the Bay Area that does this called the Inside Circle, I think it's called. It's a nonprofit. They basically go into... it's like a men's group. For people who listen to this that don't know what a men's group is, it's an idea that's been around for a long time. There are many different flavors of this. Some are kind of business-oriented, while others are oriented around just sort of changing your life. I forgot what's the... what's the famous one in the Bay Area that people think is a cult? That's like a men's group. I don't know if you know the name of it. It's like a weekend... it's like a weekend thing you do, but there's...

Sam Parr

a whole water or something

Shaan Puri

yeah something like that not not that but there's something like that so anyways a men's group is where a bunch of men get together they sit in a circle and they talk about their feelings and they talk about what's going on and they and they have like a whole process that's like basically helps people unpack what's going on inside so that they when you unpack what's going on inside you're not carrying all this baggage around and then you you will act more like the way you wanna act because you don't have this sort of suppressed and pent up stuff inside that's my like layman's version of it I'm sure there's a much fancier better way of explaining it so I went to folsom prison did the same same sort of thing 2 day program you go in I met this guy gino he was kinda like you know you get a pen pal buddy basically so you know you meet your buddy and he was in there he's been in there since he was 18 and he had murdered somebody when he was 18 and he's like been in there for 20 years now so he's 38 and he was like you know yeah I did this horrible thing when I was 18 and like I'm in here for life basically like my whole life is basically in prison and he had a great great attitude about him funny guy and he was you know he was just it was kind of unreal because I had been you know kind of I'm embarrassed to admit it but I had been kind of you know in my head I just sort of wrote this off like I just wrote off people in prison like I think society writes them off and I had sort of just thought like yeah I'm not not super interested in going in and meeting people who have murdered people before but you know it's really not that simple once you meet them it's really not that simple to to sort of like bucket people like that as good and bad and so you know it kind of you know it's kind of embarrassing to even say it out loud it sounds obvious but you know it was kind of I don't know it was kind of awakening moment and then we we did these ex so we did these exercises where you're like you know you sit in your little group and you talk about what's going on and it's so funny because it was basically half successful tech guys and then half people from folsom prison and and they would it'd be like you know the tech guys like oh you know you know just a stereotype for a second like my kids trying to get into this private school the admissions process and my wife is really blah blah blah and then like the next guy is like you know I haven't seen my daughter in 25 years and I just hope she's okay and I heard something heard something happened to her and I'm not able to help and it's just gutting me and then the tech guy is like you know my company we we raised our a we're just trying to raise our b and like you know so it's like it's so funny like real problems fake problems real problems fake problems and but like this is sort of like no judgment right that's the idea is like actually it's funny the guys who lead you in there they're very like sort of wise people there there there's one guy bj who runs the program and then I forgot the name of the other guy he's an awesome guy he's like he's like recognized as a shaman in like 7 different civilizations in africa like this guy is just a beast in all ways they in fact they call his nickname as beastmaster because he sort of is able to tame the beasts in the prison and he's got this like presence about him that you wouldn't believe like imagine ray lewis does volunteering work he was in prison but he was in prison he got out and then he you know devoted his life to this work he's like sort of one of the most wise guys ever and he said this early on he's like you know let's set some ground rules before we go in here man like okay what what do we and one guy was like you know no judgment I wanna be going here I don't wanna judge the guys in there he goes okay so we're gonna lie to ourselves and he's like what what do you mean he's like he's like you're going to make a judgment the when somebody says something or does something the brain is instantaneously going to make a judgment and you can sit there and say no no no I'm not doing it I don't wanna do it I you can try to resist it but you're gonna fail he goes instead let's just agree to this you'll make the judgment but then just agree to this the judgment says more about you than it does about them he's like so just use that that reaction to teach you about yourself don't use it to define the other people in there that's something that I still use to this day kind of like in every every walk of life because it's it's so true so anyways I had this like crazy experience in there so I was I was talking or I guess like I don't know if I should even tell the story but basically I when I went in there was one guy in there that just looked like the baddest dude in the prison he was wearing his sunglasses nobody else was wearing sunglasses he had like a cane he wasn't the strongest or the biggest but you could tell he had the respect of everybody in there and almost like the fear like a fear version of respect or at least that's what I perceived because you know you go into the situation you sort of quickly scope it out and you're trying to like understand the lay of the land and so instantaneously my brain's judgment was that's the baddest dude in here like don't piss that guy off don't say the wrong thing in front of that person he kind of scares me and of course as fate would have it we get into a group of 4 we get matched up and he's my buddy in the group of 4 and this guy basically I was you know so then you're supposed to like again talk about your problems and I was kinda conscious to be like okay I'm not gonna talk about these like first world problems so I tried to say some shit that was like deeper than that but he saw straight through it because these people have a very good you know bullshit detector and he was like he's like man you're just saying what we wanna hear he just cut me off like 2 minutes in

Sam Parr

oh that's bad

Shaan Puri

and I was in the middle of my big kinda like heartfelt thing and I'm a good talker I'm a good storyteller I'm a good liar frankly and he immediately was like man don't come in here and just say what we wanna hear and I was like oh shit and then I'm like my the guy I was already afraid of is now calling me out specifically for basically one of the worst things you could do in these situations which is be inauthentic and be fake and it's like you didn't really you really didn't have to do anything that was the one thing just don't be fake and I was I was being fake and this guy called me out on it he's like what you really thinking and I was like and I just said what was on my mind I go I go I really just don't wanna sound like an idiot in front of you and he starts laughing and he goes he goes you afraid of me I was like yeah I'm afraid yeah I'm afraid of you he goes so if I get closer you'd be afraid he gets closer closer he gets right up to my face like 1 inch from my face and he's like he's like you afraid of me and I was like I was like yeah I'm afraid and he goes that's your truth I go yeah and he goes and he I go yeah I'm like in my head I'm like oh okay I think I did it right I just said what I was thinking of that I think you know and so then the brain the voice in my head that was like judging every word I was saying kinda like relaxed for a second because this guy put him at ease and he was like he's like he's like I can respect that and he's like he's he starts telling a story about a time like his life when he was afraid and like you know I'm off the hook I go sit down now and and at the end the guy like you know basically gave me a hug on the way out and he was like you know he's like I hope I see you again sometime and I was like wow that was a just like a little life moment that it doesn't like I I don't know I'm telling the story now I don't think this even means anything to anybody but I remember this like it like it happened yesterday there's very few moments in my life that I can remember so vividly but this was one of them and I think it's because it was like a primal moment where I didn't know what was gonna happen there was real fear you talk about this a lot like we're very rarely in real dangerous situations and even though this wasn't actual danger this guy wasn't gonna do anything to me it definitely felt that way and I remember it

Sam Parr

And the crazy part... and we can move on after this, but the crazy part is, like, I think what separates you and me, or anyone listening to this podcast— which, by the way, I learned... well, I'll talk about it in a second—what separates us from someone like these folks. I met a bunch of people who are like habitual criminals. They're like, "Yeah, you know, I just... I was a drug addict or I just hated authority, and I've changed, but I was young and mean." I met a bunch of other people who worked. I met a guy who worked at Abbott, I met a guy who worked at Ford, and I met a guy who was an engineer. They’re probably making six figures, and they go, "My marriage went horrible. One of us cheated, and I got into a fist fight, and I killed someone or I hurt someone really badly." I was like, "I don't think I'm ever gonna hurt someone," but I could... it's not like in a fit of rage. Like, you could flip out, or I could get drunk and kill someone while driving, you know? Like, you could. And it's not that we're not that different from some of these guys. So that was really crazy. And while there, so let's get... we'll talk about business. There are these guys who have like iPads. They're not Apple, but they're like a different brand of like iPad-type tablets.

Shaan Puri

okay

Sam Parr

And you can be an approved podcast. So if we go through the process of getting approved, we can go on there. There's about a million incarcerated folks in America, and there aren't that many podcasts on this topic.

Shaan Puri

good times I was like oh

Sam Parr

I was like, "Dude, let's boost our numbers!" So, I'm working with the right people. There's a company that makes these iPads, and we're gonna...

Shaan Puri

Go Microsoft! It's a Surface. The Microsoft manages this in shambles, as you keep calling it an iPad.

Sam Parr

Dude, I looked it up on Wikipedia. It's this company that sold to a private equity company for $2,000,000,000. They basically make things that the prison gives to incarcerated folks. They can buy movies and stuff. If you have enough money in your account, you can watch movies your entire stay. So anyway, it was kind of cool. That's my story.

Shaan Puri

I have a related thing. Do you know the guy Mike Posner? Of course, the musician. So he...

Sam Parr

I know who he is yeah

Shaan Puri

so he's like kinda like rapper singer type dude

Sam Parr

I I I took a pill in ibiza that's like a stupid I

Shaan Puri

took a pill in ibiza cooler than me he's got a couple big big big big songs he went

Sam Parr

to duke right

Shaan Puri

He went to Duke, so he was there while I was there. We were in the same year, and I remember meeting him or seeing him. He was a white kid from Detroit who said he was going to be a rapper. I was like, "Alright, like Eminem?" You know, that's who goes to Duke. Yeah, you went to Duke, but that's not really the path, my friend. But he killed it. He did amazing. One of the things I remember from that was he released his song on iTunes U because he was in school. Only a student or professor could put content on iTunes U, which was like the subsection of iTunes. Most of the things that go up there are extremely academic, right? This is like a lecture from some random biology class at Duke. So now, all of a sudden, you get this rap song that goes on iTunes U, and he hit the top of the charts on iTunes U. He would tell people, "Yo, I'm number 1 on iTunes (you)." That's how I think he got booked first. That's how he got a lot of college gigs. It was like a growth hack. A lot of college students heard his song because iTunes U had rankings that showed the top 10 iTunes songs, which is super competitive. You gotta be mega famous to do that. Then, right below it was the top 10 iTunes U downloads, and his was number 1. I think he got a lot of fans that way. He booked a bunch of early gigs when he had no name by saying, "Yeah, I'm number 1 on college campuses on iTunes." They were like, "Well, okay, that sounds decent. Alright, we'll give you a shot." And then he went on a college tour, and that's how he built his following. He did a very similar thing to what you're talking about.

Sam Parr

That's badass! I like him a lot. So that's a good story. It's like Björk getting famous in Iceland or something. It's better to have a local maximum, to be famous on a local level, and then leverage that.

Shaan Puri

I'll tell you one more quick question before we switch off. So, my buddy, my best friend Trevor, did this thing called a "book storm," which I think is a great idea in general. He wanted to write a book, and he thought, "Alright, books normally take a long time. What if I did it differently?" So, he created a quick concept of the book—not a draft, but just an outline. Then, he flew out the five most badass people he knew and put us all up in a hotel. He said, "I want you here for basically a day and a half to just help me think through this book." He wanted us to brainstorm it together. He thought that if he approached this with deep intensity, he could make way more progress than if he just lightly touched this book every day.

Sam Parr

for like 2 years

Shaan Puri

yeah for 2 years and it totally works

Sam Parr

their last name what's trevor's last name

Shaan Puri

reagan r a g a n so he so he and now he has the book it's coming out it did like a odd I forgot what he called it like a podio book it's like a podcast of the audio of the book or something like that so anyways he was he flew out it was me because I was like his best friend from college and then it was like this person who was like the the the olympic coach for the women's volleyball team and so the us us women's volleyball has just kicked ass internationally which is not expected because volleyball is a much bigger sport in other countries but this guy like turned the program around and like so he was amazing he was there and this one guy was there and he had been in prison for 20 years and he had gotten out and he trevor does a lot of pro bonos like talking in prisons and so he had met this guy in in the process and he was like wow this is this guy's amazing and this guy shared 2 things so I was like he came out and I was like man this guy's like he is so wise he is so articulate I feel like he's read every fucking book because he keeps referencing really insightful pieces from all these different books and so I was like what's your story man he's like actually I was in prison for 20 years I was like woah no shit and he goes you know I said so you read all these books while you're there he goes he goes yeah he goes my first year when I was there I was like I was 20 years old or something like that is a he's like I decided I'm gonna see what I wanna see he goes so I I decided oh you said they're calling they're calling them students there hey that's what he's that's that's what he did for himself in his brain he goes I told myself I'm not in prison I'm in university he's like and every day I woke up I said I have I'm getting a 20 year phd in life he said every day I woke up and I just I would tell every day around me in the line we're getting food I would this is the this is the student union I'm at the student union I'm getting food from the from the from the mule hall I'm going to the library I am in university right now I am not in prison he just literally like worked himself up into a frenzy where his mind only saw that and he saw everything as as university so he read all these different books and then similarly he said you know I would look around on the on the yard and on the yard you'd see all kinds of bad shit going on you know the black guys fighting the white guys and the mexican guys and all that and you'd see broken you know just broken down you know our basketball hoop was half crooked all that and he's like I just played a game every day in my mind I would change what I saw so I would see a beautiful green field I would see that he's like every day he's like if I saw a broken glass I would see roses and this guy's mindset impressed me so much it's another one that stuck with me which was like create your own reality and like how many times if this guy could do that in prison then when I'm waiting in line at starbucks I'm not waiting in line bored I change it in my head just like the guy changed his university thing so that was another one that was like

Sam Parr

that's amazing

Shaan Puri

a huge life thing that I took away from that guy

Sam Parr

Dude, I love this prison talk! We should... I think we should do like an entire episode on this. There are all these guys who are blowing up on YouTube. It's all about crime and prison talk and whatnot. I learned so much from those folks.

Shaan Puri

Do you watch these videos? They're not particularly insightful or deep, but they're just entertaining to me. Have you seen the ones where guys go to film around a police station? Then the cop comes out and he's like, "Hey, why are you filming, man? What are you doing here? Let me see your license. Let me see your ID." And the guy responds, "Nope, I'm not going to show you my ID." The cop is like, "What? Let me see your ID!"

Sam Parr

I watch that shit all the time

Shaan Puri

And he's like, "No, I know my rights. I'm in a public place. I'm allowed to film." He's like, "Yeah, but what are you doing here?" He's like, "Do you not know the rights?" And they just talk back to the cops. There's something about this... about just talking back to cops.

Sam Parr

It's called... it's called "justice porn," and it's fun. It's like... it's justice porn. That's what I call it. It's like...

Shaan Puri

And the comments are super polarized. Half the people are like, "What an asshole, dude! You're just being annoying to the cops." They're like, "You're provoking them," and then they take the bait. Then you jump on them with, "Why did you spend your day doing this?" Then the other half of the people are sort of like me, and they're like, "God, I don't know why I find this so entertaining. I just love when somebody knows their..."

Sam Parr

shit accident

Shaan Puri

yeah there's something to it man but I can't I can't resist that's my junk that's my new reality tv

Sam Parr

Yeah, go to **reddit.com/r/justiceporn**. There's a whole subreddit for that, and there are like **1,000,000** subscribers. It's pretty crazy.

Shaan Puri

Yeah, it's nuts. Like, there'll be a guy who gets pulled over and the officer says, "Let me see your ID." He shows him a passport from another country, and the officer replies, "No, I need your ID." The guy insists, "No, you don't. There's a treaty that says if I show you this passport, blah blah blah, you cannot arrest me." It's just some random loophole, and he's driving around fast, hoping to get pulled over just so he can do this thing on camera and get a bunch of views. It's kind of sick.

Sam Parr

But I like it. Speaking about the countries, let me tell you about something interesting. Have you heard of **Prospera**? Have you heard of **Prospera**?

Shaan Puri

para it sounds very familiar what is it

Sam Parr

Okay, so I almost... or I'm in the process, and I hope I can make it happen, of investing in this company called Mini Circle. So, Prospera is this new, like, private charter city. We've talked about private charter cities a bunch, right? Okay, and so it was set up in part by Peter Thiel, who's a very controversial, weirdo type of guy. I like him, but a lot of people don't. He basically set up this country, or the city, in Honduras, and they have their own rules and their own laws and weird things like that. So, do you know what gene therapy is? Have you heard of gene therapy?

Shaan Puri

Yeah, is it basically like, is CRISPR part of gene therapy? So it's basically the modification of your DNA in order to fight disease. Is that a good description?

Sam Parr

Yeah, so it's this very experimental kind of technique, kind of like a medical procedure, where basically you insert and modify genes in order to replace surgeries or drugs. For example, there's this kid in Syria who had some weird disorder where all his skin started deteriorating. He was about to die, and they did this gene editing stuff, and he was able to regrow back his skin. A lot of people find it controversial because you're doing a couple of things: you're kind of like playing God, which I don't buy into, but that's an argument. Also, people don't like it because it's experimental. The FDA closely monitors this stuff, and they'll say, "Yeah," and there are a lot of weird biohacker fringe types who are interested in this. So, it's all controversial, but nonetheless, it's cool. I'm trying to invest in this company called Mini Circle, and they're making this new gene therapy that increases muscle mass, bone density, helps with insulin sensitivity, and does all this crazy stuff to you. But in order to get it done in America, you have to go through the FDA, and it's a big process. So, they've moved their company to Prospera, this Peter Thiel city, in order to make all this happen, and they're doing their thing.

Shaan Puri

testing for people city or

Sam Parr

is this the one with latin america

Shaan Puri

latin america okay yeah honduras

Sam Parr

It's in Honduras, and so they're doing it like this: basically, they're saying, "We're working with fully informed and trusted study participants who are choosing to do this." Right? But we couldn't get this done in America. It would take 40 years to do this. We're going to do this in this weird city type of thing. Yep, and I'm trying to invest in this company. I think it's ridiculous, I think it's crazy, but kind of cool.

Shaan Puri

it is very cool I invested in one charter city called praxis and they what they did was pretty smart they were like they first created just a bunch of like like a like a group here in america so they they invited a bunch of cool people from new york la san francisco and they're just like host events so they throw dope parties so these people they're like in a community they get to meet each other at these events and there's like an online component and they keep doing this they keep doing this and meanwhile they're searching they're going around to like all around the world and they're basically negotiating with governments and they're saying hey give us some free land and let us have our own rule of law and rule of financial law in the like our our own financial regulations and our own rule of law in this zone we're gonna create a new city and we're gonna bring all these like cool people + like development dollars to your place right so in the in the us you could never say hey us government go give us you know a little piece of wyoming they're not really gonna give you that but you know you go to whatever you know you go just in the mediterranean or the balkans and you find some random piece of land you say oh this is beautiful it's right on the ocean it's undeveloped and you go to the government you say look what if I could get a bunch of people from america you know successful people who want to kinda live in a new a new charter city and and so it's just like really wild moonshot idea I totally fully expect this investment to go to 0 I put in a very small check but I had to participate because the founder was so convinced that like yeah of course people will do this and and that if you did it it would be very large it'd be like owning the raw land you know you know the land under manhattan where all the buildings are gonna get built and you can either do development yourself or you could sell off the pads and make a ton of money so the business is great if you can kick off a new charter city and one of the ways you attract people is this like if you own if you have your own rule of law you can say hey biohackers come here because you're allowed to do you know you're allowed to run your experiments here because we have our own kind of like free zone where we can do our own shit and so I think it's really cool what's happening balaji is pretty convinced that in the next 10 years we're gonna see charter cities you know pop up startup cities

Sam Parr

Yeah, and on one hand, to explain why the haters exist on this and why I definitely hate on them a little bit, or you know, there's some negativity, which is most likely from fringe libertarian types. It's kind of like how all the Bitcoin rich folks are going to Puerto Rico to avoid taxes. You could say that the FDA exists for a good reason; rules exist for a good reason. You guys are freaks just trying to avoid reality, and there's definitely truth to that. There are probably solid arguments in some parts of that. Then, on the other side, you could say, "Well, that's like what the fucking America started," right? Yeah, exactly, we bailed on...

Shaan Puri

we were the we were the free experimentation zone right

Sam Parr

Yeah, like we rode a ship across, you know, 3,000 miles, not knowing what to expect. We just landed and figured it out. So, well, I think... I think.

Shaan Puri

Even the people who like startup cities would say, "Yeah, great! There should be the FDA and all the stuff for most people in most places." But if it covers all land and all people within a country, then you stamp out wild experimentation. I know that the Google guys have been talking about this before, which is that there should be a free space where, if you opt in, you can go and do some of the experimental things that you can't do here. The learnings from that—let's say 9 out of the 10 things don't work out or they have bad consequences—okay, fine. But if one breakthrough innovation or discovery is made, then that can be exported back to the mainland. We could say, "Look, let's take this through proper testing and roll it out to everybody." For example, people go to Germany to get stem cell treatments and things like that because it's not legal here, but in other countries, they're more liberal about it. I started a biotech company once, and the technology was made in the U.S. The U.S. government had funded $40 million of R&D for this technology, but you couldn't use it anywhere in the U.S. because you would never get the permits. People would say, "Why would we let you put these microbes into the ground?" It was basically these little micro bugs that could eat coal underground, so you don't have to mine it. They would just breathe out natural gas, and they would mine the coal themselves. You just collect the natural gas; you don't have to frack the earth or mine the coal. But the U.S. would never let us pump these microbes into the ground because they thought, "Life is pretty good here; we don't have to do that." So we went to Indonesia and India, where they were like, "Yeah, hey, here's a huge plot of land. How much money do you need to go do this? We love this! We want economic activity; we want innovation." If this works, then we want to capture some of the upside of being able to sell this technology to others. We got quick permits in Indonesia and India, while companies trying to do the same thing in the U.S. were bogged down for years and never got approvals.

Sam Parr

have you ever heard of medical tourism

Shaan Puri

Yeah, I've always been curious about how people have the guts to do this. But it makes sense. You go to Mexico to get your teeth fixed or whatever. Have you ever done anything like this?

Sam Parr

No, so for those who don't know what this is, I learned about this because my friend Sean's buddy, John Howard. You're friends with John Howard, right?

Shaan Puri

yeah he's great

Sam Parr

We... I shared an office with him at this place called Founders Dojo. They created a company; I forget the name of it, but it was basically about medical tourism. So, basically, I think a use case is typically like dentists or veneers and teeth stuff. Although then there's other things like breast implants and plastic surgery. Their premise was basically that it's cheaper to get it done in Bali, Mexico, or India—somewhere like that—where, I have no idea if this is true, the doctors are just as good, but it's a fraction of the cost to fly out there, get the surgery done, chill there for a week, recover, and then fly back. The company did not work out, and frankly, in my opinion, it sounds like a *fucking pain in the ass*. I would never do that. I'd rather pay $20,000 in America for veneers but be able to get it done like three blocks from my house than I would want to go to Mexico.

Shaan Puri

Well, yeah, it's not for you, right? It's for somebody who can't afford it. It's not about "if I could do this or that." It's "I can't do this and my teeth hurt," or "I can't do this and I need this surgery done." Okay, if I can't afford it here, even with insurance, then I'll go to Mexico and do it because I have no real other option. It's so prohibitively expensive that it would cripple me financially. I don't want to sacrifice my health and cripple my finances, so I'm going to do this. I think it's around $100 billion a year that is spent on medical tourism globally. No way it's just $100 billion.

Sam Parr

that amazes me I never would have thought that I'm I just think because this seems what that's what I'm saying pain in the ass

Shaan Puri

It seems wild, right? But I think that's the thing. You know, when people are pushed into a corner, they will find a way. That is sort of the innovation of people. Yeah, I'm actually surprised this thing didn't work. What he was doing was selling leads. He would find customers who were interested in it, educate them, and then sell those leads to medical offices, you know, in Mexico or wherever. He would say, "Hey, this person is interested. They want to do a phone call with you. Would you pay us $100 for that lead?" And they were like, "Yeah, sure." I honestly think that business should have worked and would have worked if he had stuck with it. It was like a pivot, and maybe he didn't have enough time to figure it out.

Sam Parr

Yeah, I don't know the particulars, but I know that when he told me about it, I was like, "There's no way this would work." But I say that about a lot of stuff.

Shaan Puri

yeah exactly alright what else do you wanna talk about

Sam Parr

I don't know what do you wanna do

Shaan Puri

Let me look at your list here. Okay, so there's Julian building a ranch. I think that's pretty cool. We should talk about that. Let's do Julian building a ranch, and then let's do that. I have a good deep dive, but I'm going to save it for the next episode. It's a good one about the diamond industry.

Sam Parr

alright lay the background of this so you know julien better than I do right

Shaan Puri

Yeah, so Julien Shapiro, he's just @Julien on Twitter. A lot of people follow him there. I think he's got like 200,000 or maybe more followers.

Sam Parr

he's a weirdo

Shaan Puri

Total weirdo, in the best way possible! Yeah, he called me the other day, and I said, "Hello?" He goes, "The love of my life!" I was like, "I like check my phone, who the heck is calling me?" Then he's like, "I have this deal, blah blah blah blah," and then he just goes straight into it, doesn't even acknowledge the "love of my life" part. It was just hilarious! He's just a hilarious character. He sends us the funniest memes on Twitter. He's like this really thoughtful, intellectual guy who'll teach you how to write and teach you about all this other stuff—teach you how to think, frameworks, blah blah blah. Then in our group chat, he sent in the goofiest memes, which is like, that's my favorite type of person—someone who's got both of those sides to him: the silly side and the smart side. So he tweeted out that he's basically been talking about this for a while, so it's not just like a bullshit thing. But he's like, he really, really wants to build a ranch. And actually, by the way, I should share the most interesting thing about him: for the last 8 months, all he has eaten is Wagyu steak and boiled...

Sam Parr

eggs which I don't believe

Shaan Puri

I believe it because he's crazy and he kind of needed to. I think he had some gut health issues. He just took control and said, "I'm going to figure out how to fix this. The doctor's not helping me; I'm going to fix this myself." He had read about the carnivore diet. I think Jordan Peterson had a very similar issue and he famously came out saying, "I did carnivore; it healed me basically." So, he started doing it and began to feel a little better. Then he committed to it. He's like, "Okay." So, he literally orders Wagyu steak from this one farm, actually. He orders about $3,000 a month of steak. He shows me his freezer, which is just full of bricks of steak. Imagine, you know, when you see in a movie piles of cash, like just bound up piles of cash. It's that, but with Wagyu steaks. So, he had like... he said...

Sam Parr

He said it was miserable for like 6 or 8 weeks. He was like, "I craved carbs. I craved sugar." Then he got 6 or 8 weeks into it and he's like, "I can't even imagine eating sugar or carbs again. I don't crave them at all." It sounds horrible.

Shaan Puri

And by the way, that's a real thing. From what I understand, there's basically in your microbiome, in your gut, all these bacteria that live there. The bacteria feed on different substrates, different types of food. So, the more you eat carbs, imagine if what you're putting in is carbs. The bacteria that thrived off of, let's call it, meat are going to sort of die out. Meanwhile, the bacteria that thrive on carbs are going to proliferate. They're going to spread, multiply, and make up the majority of your gut. Then, if you decide to switch and go low carb, all of a sudden, those bacteria are going to say, "Where the hell's our food?" The cravings you feel—those carb cravings—are not just your mind being weak. It's literally the gut bacteria signaling to your body, "We need our fix! We need our sugar! We're going to die!"

Sam Parr

dude what are you are you reading about body stuff now how do you know all this

Shaan Puri

No, well, I heard this once and I was fascinated by it. Somebody had told me this, and I looked into it because I was like, "Is that bullshit?" I'll just say half the stuff I read five years later turns out to be bullshit. So, like, with health, I feel like nobody knows anything. But in hearing this, I was like, "Oh, that makes total sense." That's how you get, you know, just like you get withdrawal pangs if you stop caffeine. The same exact thing happens with carbs. When you know that that's what's happening, you're like, "Oh, okay, I just need to ride you motherfuckers out." I just need to hold you guys. I'll just starve you guys out, and in seven days, you'll be dead. The only bacteria left will be the ones that feed on the stuff I want to be eating. So, it's a total thing.

Sam Parr

Well, okay, so back to Julian. By the way, that's always why I wanted to start my startup called "Hostage," where we just take you and throw you in this land and keep you in a cabin for like three weeks. We would just monitor exactly...

Shaan Puri

a guaranteed weight loss program would you

Sam Parr

yes

Shaan Puri

Would you be interested in a 10-day program that would guarantee results? I will pay you $100,000 if you don't lose weight. Yeah, sounds good.

Sam Parr

we just give you 1400 calories a day welcome to a hostage and

Shaan Puri

yeah yeah

Sam Parr

it was it's yeah like would you like a glass of water

Shaan Puri

like

Sam Parr

that's all we that's all you get one of your top

Shaan Puri

Ten ideas. So anyway, Julian basically... yeah, he buys. And by the way, the ranch thought he was a restaurant because he was ordering so much steak. They were like, "Well, certainly you're a restaurant. Here's your wholesale price break." It just turns out he's just a dude. Anyway, he really wants to build this ranch in the middle of nowhere because he's thinking about where he wants to live. Then he tweeted out this thread that I love. Just search his name, Julian, and "I'm building a ranch in the middle of nature." Basically, he's like, "You know, why am I doing this? I want to leave San Francisco. I just think it would be amazing." He tweets out his plans: "Here's where I'm looking, here's the land, here's how much it costs. I'm going to build these prefab homes, I'm going to build this podcast studio." I'm going to have... like, blank, blank... you like this. I know this is right up your alley. So, what did you think about this? Okay, so...

Sam Parr

This is, in my opinion, very romanticized. It's incredibly not practical and it won't work in most cases. Have you ever been, you know, you live in the city for a long time, you now live in the suburbs, but it's still populated with people? Have you ever been by yourself for a while, like in a rural area?

Shaan Puri

shoot me yeah no horrible

Sam Parr

It's fun for a minute. It's great! I was just in Hawaii, and it was like, "This is relaxing. This is great!" I can't... I think that.

Shaan Puri

You basically want to do it to the point where you're like, "I felt the benefits, and now I want to run back into society and tell everyone how awesome I am for doing this retreat from society."

Sam Parr

Yes, and so, I'm reading the Teddy Roosevelt biography, and he did the same thing. Basically, his wife and mother died on the same day. It was tragic; it’s horrible. His wife, Alice, died while giving birth to their daughter. So, it was the most complicated day ever. He felt like the light of his life was gone and that he could not live anymore. Life was done for him. So, he went and he bailed. He lived in the Badlands, which is in the Dakotas. He said, "I feel replenished. I feel wonderful." But he eventually went back to D.C. or New York and became a politician. I think what a lot of people underestimate is community. In order to make this work, I think a few people can make it work, but for 9 out of 10 folks, you need peers, you need family, you need friends. Life is... I don't give a fuck if I live in the most beautiful place on earth. If I don't have people that I can see on a regular basis who I love, it's stupid. I'd rather live poor in a shack with people I love than in a mansion on a 50-acre or 100-acre plot of beautiful land.

Shaan Puri

I 100% agree. I think part of his plan is to basically have a bunch of guest houses. It'd make it an awesome ranch where he'll just have this rotation of friends and cool people that want to come stay. I think that will happen, but he's single. So, I don't know... if I went out there with my wife and kids, then I think I could last a lot longer than if I went out there literally by myself, just hoping that friends would come to visit. I think that is one thing. This is a great example of wanting to have a dream, but then I think you need to test it. You need to go live it. You should stop right now and go somewhere for one week and just say, "Okay, let me go test this." Or two weeks. Let me go spend two weeks by myself in this Airbnb in the middle of nowhere and just see how I feel after two weeks. Then let me try that again. I know he's got the discipline because if you can eat steak and eggs only for... you know...

Sam Parr

for 8 months you know props

Shaan Puri

But, like, you don't want it to feel like an endurance contest if you're trying to choose your lifestyle. You want it to be one that feels effortlessly awesome, not like a test of your mental fortitude. I think it's amazing. I would love to go visit, but I would not want to do this myself.

Sam Parr

So, I've actually done this a bunch of times. There are a lot of things that I wanted in my life, and I was able to test them on a very small scale. I'll give you a few examples. For instance, I wanted to retire, and I had the opportunity a couple of years ago. I took six weeks off.

Shaan Puri

right

Sam Parr

And I just took it off completely. By the fifth week, I was like, "I can't retire. I have to be around. I have to have something to do." Another example is buying a fancy car. You can go and test these cars, right? It's a lot of money—it's $1,000 a day. But you could be testing a $200,000 car for two days. You get into it, and this Ferrari is so small. I cannot drive this up and down like a driveway. It's just going to smack the ground, and it's not fun or exciting.

Shaan Puri

I'm stressed about this. The fun of having it versus the stress of having it is actually not a good trade. Now that I feel it, I know it.

Sam Parr

Another example is having a 5,000 square foot home. For the longest time, I was like, "I want a 5,000 square foot house." So, I went and rented a 5,500 square foot house. I spent a lot of money—maybe I think I did it in New York. I rented a 5,500 square foot house, and it was like $13,000 for a month. A lot of money, no doubt about that. But the house was way more expensive than that. I got into this house and I was like, "I cannot imagine having to fix all this crap all the time. This is exhausting. I can't do this. I don't want this." I'm only using the living room, the bedroom, and this huge kitchen, which I like. I don't need these six other bedrooms. Anyway, I think that you could actually test a lot of stuff, and more people should do that. They should...

Shaan Puri

you can 100% dude so I I I've okay I'm a rant for

Sam Parr

a second

Shaan Puri

Think about, like, in college, right? There’s this crazy thing in society, which is over-commitment and over-specialization without dabbling. So, like, you're a freshman in college. I remember at the end of my freshman year, I had to commit to a major. Like, dude, I had just figured out where the hell the bathroom is! I don’t know what a major is. I don’t know what the other majors could be. I know that if I don’t commit, I’m going to be falling behind and off track. You know, I’m not going to have my credits on time, and I’m not going to know what courses to take. I’m basically picking my career without ever even knowing what my career should be. So forget what classes I’m going to like. My major sort of dictates what job I’m eligible for at the end, and I think it’s crazy. The same thing happens with people’s first job; they just have to sort of pick a career track without dabbling and figuring out what they actually might like to do. The idea of dating is amazing. My parents had an arranged marriage, so they literally... my mom read an ad in the newspaper for my dad, which said, like, “6 feet tall,” which is a slight lie; you know, he’s 5'10". Indian, what else? Engineer degree and good family. I was basically the ad, and she was like...

Sam Parr

describe like every indian american family

Shaan Puri

Good enough. Good enough to marry. Let's meet. Then the parents met and they were like, "Okay, in this one tea we're having together, this one coffee meeting we're having, alright, cool, we're done deal. See you next time I see you; we'll be at the wedding." And that's how they got married. And, you know, it's really a shocker that these marriages aren't always the best.

Sam Parr

are they happy

Shaan Puri

No, and most... I would say that Indian marriages have a very low divorce rate because, societally, there's a taboo against getting divorced. So, they just stay together, even if they're unhappy, like what most people do. Obviously, some do get divorced, but this idea of arranged marriage is not great. Now, the counterpoint would be, you know, I think in New York, there's a 53% divorce rate also. So, maybe the whole dating thing doesn't work as well. That's a fair counterpoint. But I would say this idea of dating, of basically "try before you buy," is really important in life. These tests that you've done for yourself are super important, and I'm shocked more people don't do them. I started doing them, and I'm like, "Wow, that's way better than just having this idea in my head." It'll get so real in my head, and then when I finally do it, I'm like, "Oh shit, that was underwhelming." It's like, couldn't I have just sampled this beforehand and known that? What's an example? Okay, I'll give you an example on the positive side. I hired a chef. I have a personal chef. I wanted a personal chef for a really long time.

Sam Parr

how much does that cost a month

Shaan Puri

So, how much does it cost me a month? It's about **$3,400** a month. Maybe **$3,500**, maybe **$3,100** and that.

Sam Parr

includes food

Shaan Puri

that does not include the food no the food's on top that's just like the

Sam Parr

just service

Shaan Puri

The service of having a private chef in my house is, by the way, worth it. It's amazing! You know, I'm fortunate to be able to afford it. But to me, I don't have a fancy car. I don't even have a fancy home. However, I do have a housekeeper who comes three days a week, and I have a private chef. To me, that's my version of luxury. That's like, you know, my version of a Lamborghini. It's like a lifestyle Lamborghini.

Sam Parr

So, does this person tell me everything? I have a chef as well for a minute, but it was a little bit different. It was more like meal prep. Does this person come, and I paid way less—a fraction of that?

Shaan Puri

right I'm in the bay area too so you know it's a

Sam Parr

Yeah, but my guy came two days a week and they would meal prep for me. I didn't like it. I ended up just not using them, and I made my own food.

Shaan Puri

so so I tested them so to to do the sample idea I first even got the idea because I got to sample it so my previous company monkey inferno you've you've been there before for lunch I think probably the the the investors behind us they were kinda like a billionaire family the the birch family they had a private chef in their home but you know they were out and about all day working or they'd be at the office so their chef would just come to the office and cook for all of us and so you know a company of like 20 people and he would cook this amazing spread and all of a sudden healthy food tasted good so immediately I was like holy shit this is kind of amazing I don't have to like go out figure out what to eat every day this guy just decides so that's one decision I don't make he cooks healthy food and it tastes like junk food alright that's like you know wow that's amazing if I just ate this for all my meals I'd be way healthier than just my lunch and so so I got to sample it that told me I want this and there was other things that I got to try you know when I was at their house or fancy parties that they throw or fancy cars that they have that you know I got to try and I was like I I don't care about this good I can scratch that off the list it's one less thing I want it's one less thing I care about and so that's just hanging out with them got me got me to try some things that I thought I was working for and figure out what I like and don't like so then I tried some meal prep people what what I figured out what I really like is somebody who comes I don't decide what to eat they know my they know my life they know what food I like they know what what health what level of healthiness I I care about and they just come make it fresh on the spot because I think fresh food tastes way better than meal prepped food and so she comes and she and then I also thought I also realized oh this is not just about my health like one of the most time consuming parts of being a parent is constantly trying to feed your kid I like my kid's like a picky eater and so she you know like I'm making the 3 dishes for her every meal just trying to get her to eat something that she likes and that just takes up more time than even cooking for myself did so the chef cooks for me my wife who's vegan and our our baby and so our baby now eats like way better than when we were just you know let's make some mac and cheese let's warm something up and and it makes it fun to feed her

Sam Parr

because 5 days a week

Shaan Puri

So, it's tiring. Right now, she's coming three days a week. She comes every other day, basically. On the weekends, we want to eat out, so we like to go to restaurants or whatever. We said, "Don't come on the weekends," and we may move it up to five days at some point. But right now, it's good. Basically, it's little things like the green smoothie she makes every day. Instead of a snack in between meals, she's like, "Oh, do you want your smoothie?" I'm like, "Oh yeah, I do want that smoothie. Thank you!"

Sam Parr

have you lost weight

Shaan Puri

I think so. I don't really weigh myself, but in the mirror, I look better. I've lost weight; I look better. I don't know if my weight has changed. I don't use the scale, but I just use the mirror as the scale. So, how?

Sam Parr

often does your cleaner come

Shaan Puri

3 days a week also

Sam Parr

and how much do you pay for that

Shaan Puri

$160 per visit I think

Sam Parr

damn dude so you spend a lot of money on these things I mean I

Shaan Puri

spend a lot of money on these things they make me extremely happy

Sam Parr

do it but

Shaan Puri

they may like the

Sam Parr

that would

Shaan Puri

That feeling after the cleaners are here is like... you know, that's like a high for me. That's like, "I did well." I don't know what Molly is, but that's Molly for me. I feel so good in my own home. It's amazing having fresh, healthy food made. I think that's an absolute treat for me.

Sam Parr

I'm perfectly happy with it. We have a cleaner who comes every two weeks, and I think we spend $120 or $100. I don't remember, but...

Shaan Puri

I'm also messy as *heck*, and I have kids, and they're messy as *heck* too. So, you know, the house gets destroyed. My sister cleans, I think, four times a day in her house. She's putting toys away every, you know, every four hours basically. So it's crazy. But I don't know if people care about this. I guess my point is, I think sampling, dude.

Sam Parr

this episode is already like totally random

Shaan Puri

it's off the list

Sam Parr

to go with it

Shaan Puri

I think sampling your lifestyle is super important. I'll give you one more story here that helps. So, you know that I did a podcast from Vegas? I said, "Is that somebody's home?"

Sam Parr

you know 15,000 square feet

Shaan Puri

Yeah, I don't even know how many square feet it is. It's like 10,000 to 15,000 square feet. It looks like a hotel, basically. Unbelievable! They have a Lamborghini, a Ferrari, a monster truck, and all this other cool stuff. They have all the toys. There's a batting cage in the backyard, and an infinity pool that looks over the city. You can see the Strip. There's everything you would want in a home—they've got it: an elevator, all the crazy stuff. So, anyway, when I was there, I had this feeling that I didn't like. I thought I had slayed this feeling, but nope, it came back. It was kind of like jealousy. I knew it was jealousy because I was kind of pooh-poohing it, saying, "Oh, I don't need all this. I'm happy without all this." I was trying to convince myself why I didn't want these things, but I actually felt bad that I didn't have them. It was this weird psychological thing. The simple way of explaining it was that I felt these little hunger pangs of envy, like, "Oh, I want that." I realized that wasn't a good feeling. The shift I made was instead of feeling like, "Oh, these are things that I don't have but they have," I looked at it differently. By the third day there, I thought, "I gotta shift my mindset. I'm not trying to have this jealousy feeling in my day; it's not a cool feeling for me." So I asked myself, "What am I going to shift it to?" I said, "How about I look at this like I'm getting a sample platter here? These are things I can have in the next few years if things go right in my business. I can afford all these things." So, why don't I feel what it's like to wake up in a mansion like this? Why don't I feel what it's like to have a basketball court and a batting cage built into the home? Why don't I feel what it's like to drive this car? Suddenly, I was feeling excited. I thought, "What do I get to try today that's like... you know, I get to go try on something that I might have in the future?"

Sam Parr

did you did you drive his ferrari

Shaan Puri

yeah so I get to test drive the stuff and feel like like you know what does it feel like like did you

Sam Parr

like it

Shaan Puri

No, for me, cars are stressful. I don't like fancy cars; they're very stressful to me and they're kind of uncomfortable. I don't really get off on it. There's probably a version of a car that I like, but not the supercars. Basically, supercars are not something I want. So, I have to figure out what I do not want. Oh, actually, this feels really good. It feels really good to have this home gym built into my home. So, okay, why don't I do that? Why don't I go for that then? I think that sampling is not only an effective way to figure out what you want, but it's also a cure for jealousy. When you're in those situations where you're jealous, switch it to thinking of it like, "I'm just getting to try before I buy." Before I have all these things, I get to sample them and figure out what exact flavor of this I'm going to want. Then it becomes yours instead of feeling like it's theirs and you don't have it.

Sam Parr

I have that feeling with... So, we had this guy on the podcast a while ago. We should have him back on again. His name is Nick Bare (B-A-R-E). He runs Bare Performance Nutrition or some VPN.

Shaan Puri

a big youtube channel right

Sam Parr

And a huge YouTube channel, this guy came out with this... His content production is so freaking good. So, he's got this supplement business that does like $20 or $30 million in revenue. A lot! But when we had him on, it was like $6 million in revenue or something like that. It was good, but it wasn't significant. He created this YouTube channel. He's good looking, like yoked; he's a massive dude. He lifts weights and he's this muscle head, but he's really cool. Now he's into endurance sports. So, on his YouTube channel, which when we had him on, I think it had like 200,000 subscribers, now it's getting close to 1 million—around 780,000. He did this thing; he's got this whole team behind his YouTube channel. He's got like 3 or 4 guys working full time on it. He released a 45-minute documentary about him running the Leadville 100. The Leadville 100 is a 100-mile race in the mountains of Leadville, Colorado. It looked like it was laps or something of like 15 or 20 miles, and he had these guys at checkpoints to film him. I was watching this guy; it was the most inspirational thing I've ever seen. I'm going to go and buy... I don't even know what Bayer Nutrition sells because whenever I buy whey protein, I just go to Whole Foods and buy it, or I order it on Amazon. I'm purposely going to go out of my way to buy his stuff. Have you been paying attention to Nick Bare?

Shaan Puri

I don't he doesn't show up on my youtube feed I need to subscribe so it starts to show up on my feed

Sam Parr

dude you gotta watch this guy it is the so he's ex military

Shaan Puri

you're the only fitness influencer I watch

Sam Parr

Morgan, we can talk about that in a second. But he has inspired me to take it to...

Ben Wilson

the stadium

Sam Parr

He is so crazy! This guy is nuts. He has a video of him deadlifting £550, which is a ton of weight. Then he goes and runs a marathon in like 2 hours and 55 minutes, which is very, very fast. He's the biggest guy doing it. It's very interesting. So, I've been watching this guy and I had this pretty big sense of jealousy where I'm like, "I want to be doing that." That's why I'm doing this little fitness influencer thing now. It's kind of a joke, but not really a joke. To be honest, it's so fun! Dude, you totally have to do this. It 100% makes you accountable and makes you exercise harder.

Shaan Puri

Yeah, I love it! So, I sampled your gym. I went to your house and checked it out. I was like, "Wow, amazing!" Then, I called you the other day and asked, "Yo, what are you using for the flooring? What are you doing for this? What are you doing for that? Give me the blueprint." I'm turning my garage into your garage because that was such an amazing feeling to work out there. I want to have that feeling on a daily basis.

Sam Parr

dude it's way cheaper than you think

Shaan Puri

I know I didn't even take a... it's not even a lot of money, but it's more about having a clear vision of what you want. Seeing yours was like, "Oh, now I know what I like." I just have some additions and modifications. My daughter, who is 2, loves to come out when I'm working out. She loves to work out with me side by side. She just wants to do little things next to me. So, I'm creating a little workout playpen where she can go in there with little foam weights and do her thing while I'm doing mine. I'm like, "Okay, I'm going to craft this lifestyle to be what I want." There's something to the sampling. I really encourage people to find a way to sample it. If you want to know what kind of home you want, go Airbnb something. Before I did this chef thing, I hired a chef for one meal to cook a dinner for some friends in town. I thought, "Oh, let me hire somebody off Craigslist just to make one meal." I didn't want to deal with going out to eat, but wouldn't it be cool if a chef came to our house and did it? The cost was about the same as taking my friends out to a restaurant, so I thought, "Let me just do that at home." It was amazing! Having that chef at home was a good way to test these things. So, that's my challenge to anybody who has made it through this random episode: think about the things you have been telling yourself you want and figure out a way to sample it. In the next week, go rent the car, hang out at someone's house, shadow a CEO, or hire the chef for the day. Do a sample of it and figure out: does it make you want it 10 times more or 10 times less? Because usually, that's the reaction I have when I feel it for the first time. It's either, "I want it way more," or "I want it way less."

Sam Parr

I'm curious if people are going to like this rambling. I like this stuff, but I don't know. I wonder what people will enjoy because I could talk about this all day. I love this fitness stuff, this building the life that you want stuff.

Shaan Puri

ben ben chime in here what do you what do you think ben

Ben Wilson

I can only speak from my perspective, which is that I'm really into the charter city stuff. I really liked that, and the prison stuff I think is going to be interesting to anyone. So, it worked for me. And Teddy Roosevelt? I mean, come on, you knew that would be up my alley.

Sam Parr

Are you gonna do... Dude, Teddy Roosevelt is the most prolific person I have ever read about. I've read maybe over 100 biographies. He is likely the most active person I've ever read. He has done so much amazing stuff. This guy's a freak. Teddy Roosevelt's a freak.

Shaan Puri

where is where is the how to take over the world episode on teddy roosevelt

Ben Wilson

He, I would say, of the people that people bring up that they want me to do, Teddy Roosevelt is probably number 2. Genghis Khan is probably number 1 that people mention, and Teddy Roosevelt is number 2. So, it'll do.

Sam Parr

Roosevelt is different from Napoleon. While Napoleon did a lot, Roosevelt is far more eclectic. Before he was even in politics, when he was 21, he wrote a book on the Spanish-American War, which was considered a textbook for decades. Then he wrote a couple more books. He became president, obviously; that's amazing. He was also this avid hunter and a zoologist. What is it when you collect animals and describe where they come from? Like Darwin's work? He did that type of stuff before he was in his thirties. He was a very prolific and interesting person. You have to read about Teddy Roosevelt; he is very intriguing.

Ben Wilson

what book are you reading

Sam Parr

the rise of teddy roosevelt I think there's like 3 of them

Ben Wilson

Because I know there's one that came out fairly recently. It's really popular now about his trip to the Amazon.

Sam Parr

Later in life, yeah, yeah, yeah. Matt was amazing; the guy was ridiculous. He also has this book that I'm thinking about reading. The title is beautiful; it's called *A Strenuous Life*. He had this phrase where he was like, "So, Roosevelt would, like, even when he was president, every morning he would box—like, fight, box, like spar. He loved it. And he was like, 'It's our... like, we have to live the strenuous life where we put in effort, physical effort, and we get hurt sometimes, and we struggle.' He's like, 'We have to do that; otherwise, you're never gonna feel like a man or a human being.'" I've been very inspired by Teddy Roosevelt. He was a very interesting person.

Shaan Puri

That's funny. You know, I'm Ben. I'm listening to the Vladimir Putin episodes that you did on how to take over the world. I'm only on part 1, and I love that he was like the opposite of what you described. When Sam describes these people, it's like, "Holy shit, these are just like another species." It's like a guy who's done this and this and this all before the age of 30. The best part about the Putin thing was you were like, "Up until 30, he basically had a very sort of average life." There's nothing remarkable that would tell you that this guy's about to become what Putin ended up becoming. There are little hints, little signs, a couple moments, but you know, by and large, it was like he was a mediocre student, kind of like a low-level spy, not in the highest level, just put in this random office. That was all until 30. I'm guessing, because I haven't listened to part 2 yet, that obviously it's going to turn up and he's going to end up becoming the leader of the country. But it was so crazy to me that he was unremarkable essentially until 30. Was that surprising to you?

Ben Wilson

Yeah, and the moment that you're talking about is like he was kind of a mid-level operative in Saint Petersburg. I think the guy that he worked for lost an election, so he's out of a job. He was going to go just start a judo gym in Saint Petersburg, Russia.

Shaan Puri

yeah

Ben Wilson

because he's like pretty good he sounded

Shaan Puri

Like just like his wife from *The Office*, he's in Scranton. He's just a mid-level assistant to the regional manager, and then somehow becomes... you know, it's like if Dwight became Elon Musk. That's sort of like what happened with Putin: a mid-level officer to, like, you know, president.

Sam Parr

do you think then that he is actually the richest person in the world

Ben Wilson

No, I don't. Insofar as like, do I actually think he has, like, whatever, $100,000,000,000 in secret accounts? Probably not. But it's like, it kinda doesn't matter because he has access to as much money as he wants, whenever he wants.

Sam Parr

yeah yeah yeah

Ben Wilson

so he probably just doesn't have to he like doesn't have to move all that money to his account does that

Sam Parr

make sense he scares me man

Shaan Puri

so rich he doesn't need him in his account

Sam Parr

he freaks me out man putin scares the shit out of me

Shaan Puri

sam have you listened to this episode of the putin one there's a there's a

Sam Parr

I I dude I I I fear him and so I've been nervous to listen to it

Shaan Puri

There's a line at the beginning that I love. It's like this little anecdote. He was kind of not a great student in school and just wasn't very interested. The teacher says, "He's smart, but he's not that interested in school." So, the teacher tells his dad, "You know, he's not living up to his potential." And the dad, as just a Russian dad would, responds in the most Russian way ever: "So what, do I kill him or what do I do?" That was the response. I was like, "Wow, oh my god, most Russian thing ever!"

Sam Parr

Dude, he freaked me out, man. A lot of the Russians scare me. That's kind of like why I like Khabib in the UFC. It's because the Russians freak me out. They...

Shaan Puri

they're on another level

Sam Parr

they're on another level there's levels to it

Shaan Puri

let's just put it this way

Sam Parr

one level

Shaan Puri

I've never seen a Russian doing a podcast. Russians don't do podcasts, right? They live a harder life than us. They're doing more tough things than just sitting in front of a microphone.

Sam Parr

Dude, I've never even seen a Russian smile. They don't... I think I'm almost positive they show smiling in Russia as a weakness.

Shaan Puri

if you saw a russian and he winked at you what would what would happen to anybody

Sam Parr

There's this comedian who talks about an experience he had. He said, "You know, one time I was going to this bad neighborhood and I was nervous." He is a white guy, and when someone came up to him and asked a question, he thought they were just trying to trick him, you know, testing to see if they were going to rob him or not. So, he goes, "Immediately, I just spoke in a Russian accent." Instantly, they were afraid of him and walked away. He describes it as his defense mechanism. He says, "Of course I know where I am," but he says it in this horrible Russian accent. It was a scary thing to this guy, and he just walked away from him entirely. From that point on, his defense mechanism is just speaking in a Russian accent.

Shaan Puri

That's amazing! If I do that in an Indian accent, I'd just get beat up on the spot. So, it doesn't work the same. Alright, we should wrap it up.

Ben Wilson

I was just... I was gonna say something. I was gonna stick up for the Russians a little bit. I visited Russia with my wife; she speaks a little bit of Russian. My experience was that they are very much like that. They can be kind of gruff and a little scary, but there were a couple of times where my phone wasn't working, and we needed to get to the train station in an hour or else we were going to miss our flight and everything was going to go wrong. People were more willing to go out of their way and literally walk with us for like five blocks to make sure we found the exact right spot than anywhere else I've ever been. So, it's like they have this very tough exterior, but once you get past it, they're very...

Sam Parr

and obviously we're joking if you are russian we have love for you but we're

Shaan Puri

I thought we were complimenting the whole time

Ben Wilson

I was saying don't poison sam don't feel sad

Shaan Puri

I was saying how badass they are. My everything I said I stand behind as a compliment, you know? Even just the cities, dude. Saint Petersburg... do we have anything on the level of the word "Moscow"? Saint Petersburg... these just sound tougher than American cities, right? Like...

Sam Parr

whenever I hear the word the kremlin or kremlin I'm like I freak out

Shaan Puri

yeah exactly the kremlin

Sam Parr

scary word

Shaan Puri

Bro, we have the Tampa Bay. It's just not comparable to what we have, you know? They're on another level of toughness. Like Denver, can you imagine just putting Denver up against Moscow?

Sam Parr

america america

Shaan Puri

Is just not where it's at. Alright, I gotta go just before I get canceled for praising the Russians.