5 Internet Goldmines To Spot The Next $1B Trend | Steph Smith (#529)
Goldmines, Trends, Patents, and Sci-Fi Ideas - December 11, 2023 (over 1 year ago) • 01:03:36
Transcript:
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Shaan Puri | Dude, I was at a dinner and somebody said something as a joke. I put my finger to my lips and said, "Shh, I need to write this down," because it was an incredible idea. The guy goes, "You put his..."
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Sam Parr | you put your finger on his lips | |
Shaan Puri | and then my own lips bash back and forth | |
Shaan Puri | And I was like, "Say no more! I need to... I don't want to lose this idea. Let me write this down."
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Sam Parr | So today, you're going to talk us through a bunch of research products that you use. You have a bunch of "pipes," you call them, right?
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Steph Smith | yeah internet pipes | |
Sam Parr | I called it research tools you said that was dumb | |
Steph Smith | well it just sounds boring it's more accurate but it's boring | |
Shaan Puri | I call them **gold mines**, which is basically when some people come back and show you a little piece of gold, maybe a piece of jewelry.
Steph shows you where the mine is, so you can just keep going back to the mine for more and more gold over time.
I think people wonder, you know, if they see your tweets, read your blog posts, or hear you on our podcast, they're like, "Where does she come up with this stuff? How does she find this stuff?"
So today...
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Sam Parr | you're gonna | |
Shaan Puri | tell us exactly that | |
Steph Smith | Yeah, exactly. I think the internet is such a special thing. We often rely on something like Twitter to serve us the information of the day.
But I feel like these tools are, like you said, a gold mine. There's so much information that tells you exactly what people want or aggregates a bunch of opportunities for you.
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Sam Parr | Steph, tell me about this patent one because there are actually a handful of really good examples with this one. Okay, that I know of.
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Steph Smith | So, there are two parts: patent filings and patent expiries.
For patent filings, I think there are probably some databases that do this, but the newsletter that I like to read is called **Patent Drop**. They basically break down every newsletter with three or so patents from, again, big tech firms like FAANG, but also companies like Nike. By the way, I think Nike is the company with the most design patents, or it's up there.
In any case, there are patent filings, so you can track what these big companies are betting on and what they think is interesting that they want to retain some intellectual property around.
Then, there are also expiries, which is interesting. I think we covered the company **Hims** before and how they leveraged a patent expiry to build their company, or at least their first products.
There’s a website called **patentsexpiringtoday.com** which aggregates these. Obviously, it takes quite a bit of sifting because there are a lot of things like, "Okay, I don't care that some shin guard is expiring." But I think the combination of those two definitely can result in some business ideas.
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Sam Parr | have you guys heard of bluechew you yes so bluechew is | |
Steph Smith | bluechew | |
Sam Parr | yeah so about 3 or | |
Shaan Puri | 4 target you in ads but they target us for sure | |
Sam Parr | Yeah, basically about six weeks ago, I went to these guys' office and I met the two founders. One of the founders is a doctor and the other one was a commodities trader. They work together and they were like, "What can we start?" They saw that the Viagra patent was going to expire in 2017, so they were just plotting and plotting.
Hims gets a lot of credit for doing this, but BlueChew I think is actually more interesting. So what BlueChew does is, I think they also own Med.com. It's basically a telehealth business where you call in and you say what your issue is. Their main thing is their pill—I guess I don't know if they call it BlueChew, the name of the pill—but it's for erectile dysfunction.
I didn't realize that the customer base for that is like 150 to 200 million people in the world. Then it's projected by 2030 to be like 400 to 500 million. So it's a massive amount of people who have erectile dysfunction disorder. They bootstrapped this company, and I don't know how big they are, but I'm pretty sure they're between $100 to $200 million a year in sales. They entirely bootstrapped this company starting in 2017, and it was because of that patent that expired that they built this business.
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Shaan Puri | That, yeah, that's an incredible example. Another kind of one-chart business. All you had to do is just show, "Here's the business plan. This is the expiry date of Viagra. We're going to make the D2C generic version."
And yeah, they just do it through Instagram ads and whatnot. I think it's meds.com, so meds.com I think is the telehealth side. Then they have BlueChew, which is like their product. I think it's like Cialis, Viagra, and one other that are all expired now.
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Sam Parr | Yeah, I went to their office and we were playing poker. They had a sample, like instead of having breath mints, it was just something you could reach and take one. I was like, "My wife had a baby like 2 weeks ago. I don't think I need this." But I was wondering, what happens if... | |
Shaan Puri | I take it, a padded room you could just go stand in to see the effects and nobody will look at you. Then come back.
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Sam Parr | When you're done, yeah, I was like, "I don't know if I'm going to use this anytime soon in my house." But I was looking at some of their numbers, particularly on SimilarWeb, and they had like 2,000,000 people a month coming to their website. I was doing back-of-the-envelope math, and I was pretty sure this is a massive, massive company.
Hims gets a ton of credit because they're publicly traded, and they're starting in San Francisco, and they had all this press. I think this company is probably almost as big, and I'm pretty sure the two guys own most of it. They haven't taken any financing.
So anyway, this Pat thing is pretty wild.
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Steph Smith | Yeah, and I haven't gone through the stuff happening in 2024, but another quick call-out is the public domain stuff.
Every year, new things go into the public domain. We're hitting January soon, and so that's another thing to call out for folks. | |
Sam Parr | Well, I think like a few years ago, wasn't it like Winnie the Pooh or something like that? Yeah, like was it Winnie the Pooh? Like a bunch of these... yeah.
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Steph Smith | And then Ryan Reynolds took advantage of that. He did, what was it, in partnership with one of the phone companies, and he did "Winnie the Scrooge" as a commercial. | |
Sam Parr | That's pretty wild. That's pretty funny. By the way, another one of these trends that you called out a few years ago, which I thought was so stupid at the time, and I've since spent probably $500 on this stuff, is you did. My wife loves this stuff. It was like minis for some reason.
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Steph Smith | oh like mini cooking sets and stuff | |
Sam Parr | have you seen this sean like basically no she the it's mostly women I think | |
Shaan Puri | young women I agree | |
Sam Parr | But it's so... I've spent, when she was pregnant, I would buy her... I bought like a bulk case of it. Then, every week, I would give her a present.
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Shaan Puri | wait describe what is it it's | |
Sam Parr | So, it sounds so dumb, but the one that she liked was called **Mini Brands**. I think it's like any famous brand that you know of, like **Coca-Cola**, **Kit Kat**, or any type of snack. But also, they have different products, like a shoebox. They make just miniature versions.
You open up this small ball; it's about the size of a baseball. Inside, there's a variety of about 8 different mini things. People just love, I guess, looking at them. I don't even understand what the appeal is.
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Shaan Puri | but I | |
Sam Parr | Have children. It's weird. Steph seems like someone who's into like those mini things.
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Shaan Puri | Way, this is Zuru. So, this is that same guy, Nick Mowbray, that we talked about on the podcast. The toy mogul who, by the way, said he wants to come on. So, we should hit him up and get him on.
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Sam Parr | but they're | |
Shaan Puri | looks like they're the makers of this | |
Sam Parr | this mini brand mini brands | |
Shaan Puri | yeah mini brands | |
Sam Parr | it's and it's really expensive they're expensive | |
Shaan Puri | edible or are these fake like | |
Sam Parr | No, no. It's just like a... it looks like, imagine a KitKat bar but just the size of a penny. That's all it is. | |
Steph Smith | it's just small it's just mini shit and excellent | |
Shaan Puri | I have had this theory for a long time that anything mini just works. I remember in science class there was a mini beaker, and everybody used to fight over it. I was like, "What? That holds less!" Nobody wanted to hear me. I was like, "No, but that holds less stuff!"
But everybody wanted to have the tiny thing, and I was like, "What's going on here?" There is something to this. Either an overly large item, like the Love Sack, or a completely tiny thing is just one way to make a product more appealing.
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Steph Smith | A YouTube channel called "Jenny's Mini Cooking Show" is the one I remember from years ago. I was like, people will just watch this person cook these "meals" for hamsters. They'll do the whole thing; they'll have a tiny little knife, cut the pizza and the cake, and serve it on a tiny plate. People love this stuff.
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Sam Parr | Yeah, oh wow. I can't help but make fun of these people, but one time I ordered a birthday cake that was a Reese's Peanut Butter Cup, and it was actually the size of a birthday cake. So, I just like bigger things. But I understand, like, which sounds awesome, right? Like, you're not... you're gonna buy a lot.
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Shaan Puri | Right now, I should make like the **Cybertruck Mini**. Basically, it's like the thing I should do. I should make a really tiny Cybertruck that can just park in your garage. That's it.
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Sam Parr | Yeah, it's weird, man. It's weird. We're freaks. I can't find this client info.
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What do you guys want to do next?
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Sam Parr | let's do the | |
Shaan Puri | sports one | |
Shaan Puri | what's the | |
Sam Parr | sports data | |
Steph Smith | So, there's this website that aggregates a bunch of reports on sports, which obviously people love. Americans love sports. They have like a "State of Pickleball" report and a "State of the Industry" report. These cost money, so...
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Shaan Puri | What is the state of pickleball? Should we go into that? What is the burning question in all of our minds: what is the state of pickleball?
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Steph Smith | Right now, what I did find was this article that basically aggregated some data from this.
Don't open it because I want you guys to guess what the fastest growing sports are. The 25 fastest growing sports according to this SFIA research, which is the Sports and Fitness Industry Association.
What do you guys think were the top fastest growing sports in America?
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Sam Parr | I already opened it and I could tell you I wouldn't have guessed one of them | |
Shaan Puri | I already opened it as well, so the game is over. But I would have said pickleball.
And I would have said that game battle... isn't there like another game that's just like pickleball but it's for people that want to be like, "No, pickleball's old. This is the new, new thing." Like, there's two of them. That's what I would have guessed.
It does seem like pickleball is number one, but number two, I would have never guessed alpine touring. I don't even know what that really is.
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Steph Smith | I think it's just like off-country skiing. And then, I have never heard of what winter fat biking is.
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Sam Parr | it's awesome it's what it is it's like | |
Shaan Puri | so sounds like I need to research | |
Sam Parr | What is this? These fat tire bikes are really popular right now.
So, it's basically a bike with just a really fat tire. They are sick looking! You see them ride by and you wonder, "Is this a sport?"
Yeah, it's just mountain bike riding, but the tire is particularly fat. That's all it is.
You know, we say we like big and small things. It's just a normal bicycle with a fat tire that can, like, imagine a bicycle that could drive on a beach.
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Steph Smith | Got it. But I guess it's a sport. Number 4, of course, is golf. Interesting.
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Sam Parr | I don't even know what that is | |
Steph Smith | I, when I googled it, I think it's just those machines. But I guess they've turned that into a competitive sport or...
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Sam Parr | And then, number 7 is trail running. I could definitely see that. I get so many videos on my Instagram of trail running.
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Shaan Puri | Yep, dude. I was at a dinner and somebody said something as a joke. I put my finger to my lips and said, "Shh, I need to write this down," because it was an incredible idea. The guy goes, "You..." | |
Sam Parr | put his you put your finger on his lips | |
Shaan Puri | and then my own lips batched back and forth | |
Shaan Puri | And I was like, "Say no more. I need to... I don't want to lose this idea. Let me write this down." He said something, and he goes, "Yeah."
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Shaan Puri | I do the the suburban triathlon | |
Shaan Puri | And I go, "What?" He goes, "Yeah, the suburban triathlon. You walk a half mile, you go into this bar, you drink two beers, and then you go play nine holes of golf."
I was like, "What?" He's like, "Yeah, it's the... I forgot what he said, suburban Ironman or the suburban triathlon."
I was like, "This has legs." I really think that if somebody created some kind of event for, you know, out-of-shape middle-aged guys to do, they'll do it.
I think if you brand it almost like the "non-fit person triathlon," it has to have some version of eating and drinking as one of the legs. You know, a couple holes of golf as one of the other legs, and then you can really pick whatever you want as the third.
But dude, that's the next Tough Mudder! I think that could be a massive trend that people start doing because it's kind of fun, it's ironic, and it might be pickleball as the third one. Actually, that's probably the right bet.
But this is definitely something that I think would appeal to people. What do you guys think?
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Sam Parr | yeah yeah and that's beautiful branding | |
Shaan Puri | That's the brand. We're working backwards from the brand. We really don't even know actually what goes underneath. It's just the idea of the suburban triathlon.
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Sam Parr | That deserves you putting your finger on his lips and then just kissing him. Just give him a little kiss, like "I love you." That's beautiful.
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Shaan Puri | It's like you bike to the grocery store, chug a beer, and then, I don't know, run an errand. That's a suburban triathlon, and you gotta do it on Saturday mornings.
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Sam Parr | steph what's what's another one | |
Steph Smith | Gotta give a shout out to Packy McCormick. He aggregated this from a site called Tech Novelgy, which is one of those sites where I'm just like, "I can't believe someone created this." I think his name is Bill Christiansen or something like that, who basically took all of the sci-fi novels that have been written, or most of them—1,000—and he put them on a site called Tech Novelgy.
What Packy did is he took this kind of very outdated HTML site that's hard to navigate and he put it into this database. You guys, click the link; you'll see it. You'll see that there's this first page that is just the sci-fi stats.
So it basically takes all the ideas—not just the books, but the ideas within these sci-fi novels—and says, "Does it exist today? Were these ideas in bits or atoms?" It also breaks down things like, for certain authors, let's say they had, in some cases, like Asimov had, I think, like 99 ideas. How many of those ideas actually came to be? So you can kind of get a sense of how grounded...
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Shaan Puri | let's do some | |
Steph Smith | certain authors | |
Shaan Puri | Examples:
So, I'm on the idea bank, row 194. It says, "In 1911, the author Hugo Gernsback predicted tele-motor coasters." These were powered skates for personal transport—wheelies, basically.
Yeah, or like that one viral video that went viral of people walking but with these power skates that were making them go way faster.
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Steph Smith | Yeah, exactly. So, they basically break down thousands of ideas in this database. Then they say if it was created, and you can see in the "Sci-Fi Idea Bank" tab, in column J, you can see what year it was first made.
You can see things like Google or credit cards when they first appeared in these sci-fi novels. For example, the credit card was first referenced in 1888, but credit cards like Visa and MasterCard weren't actually created until the 1950s. Live news was referenced in 1889, and then it took until the 1980s for 24-hour live news to actually be a thing.
It's kind of interesting because now you look at all these things like credit cards or live news, and you think, "Of course, that exists." That doesn't sound like sci-fi. But then you can extrapolate that and probably deduce that many of the things that sound like sci-fi today, or even 50 years ago, likely will follow that same fashion.
I like going through this database because there are still many things that fit in that category of "not yet created but dreamt."
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Sam Parr | Up, yeah. So we can create electric roller blades that just revolutionize the way we get hit by cars.
Right? What are examples of things that you're interested in on this?
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Steph Smith | Yeah, so I mean, some of these are certainly at the point where they're becoming real. For example, in 1897, someone drummed up a non-alcoholic beverage similar to wine. In 1897 as well, electric bicycles became a reality, but I think they are becoming way, way cheaper and way more important than grown meat, which is another thing coming online in 1984.
What's equally interesting is to consider some of the major tech trends, like AI, some of the stuff happening in biotech, and some of the stuff happening in space. All of those trends are kind of intersecting, and you can ask the question whether some of the things that you see, that again sound way more sci-fi than something like an electric bicycle, may actually be a reality.
So I think an example of a company that maybe fits this bill is Varta. They're manufacturing drugs in space, which I think almost certainly would have sounded crazy a decade ago.
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Sam Parr | what's varta doing | |
Steph Smith | they're manufacturing drugs in space why | |
Sam Parr | great question yeah | |
Shaan Puri | question I think we all have in our mind | |
Sam Parr | What's wrong with doing it in Massachusetts? Look at that.
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Steph Smith | I imagine Sam in the pitch meeting. They're like, "Okay, hear me out: drugs in space. What about Massachusetts?"
So, my understanding is that the way some of these drugs are manufactured, the physics on Earth due to gravity and some of the other forces that don't exist in space, results in you not being able to create certain chemical structures. This impacts the way that drugs can be ingested or administered.
There's that immediate function of being able to create almost like drugs that exist today but in different structures. Then there's the obvious future opportunity where you're creating completely new compounds that could not be manufactured on Earth.
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Sam Parr | did those guys raise a lot of funding | |
Steph Smith | I believe so | |
Sam Parr | That's wild! What a... that, yeah, that's beyond what I... that's beyond my IQ. That's just pretty amazing.
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Shaan Puri | yeah there's like a list of ideas that were definitely started on like an ayahuasca trip and this is one of them | |
Steph Smith | yeah | |
Sam Parr | Well, whenever I see these lists, I just think of them as heavy. I'm not really into wizards or "Game of Thrones" and all that stuff. But, you know, what do I say? I said I play sports. I don't read "Harry Potter," but I do appreciate the fact that one woman just sat down and created this whole world.
There's like... we talk about Quidditch, and that's just a relatively small part of this whole universe that this lady created. It is actually kind of crazy to see some of these predictions. In a weird way, it's inspiring to think that imagination can do this.
I do actually feel pretty psyched up looking through this and thinking, "Damn, I'm thinking way too small and not into the future enough." So, I understand that, and I think it's actually pretty cool.
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Steph Smith | I just spotted in row 3,543 in 2003, smart wallpaper. So, Sam, maybe that's coming your way next pod.
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Sam Parr | yeah so I'll look less pale alright you wanna do another one | |
Steph Smith | Next, gold mine. So, I love this one: **Our World in Data**. People may have heard of this website; it's a platform that tries to aggregate data reflecting what's really happening in the world.
It includes things like data on poverty and even really niche topics. For example, I found a graph that related to the day of the year with peak cherry tree blossoms in Kyoto. It's so random, but they're collecting data on this!
I checked this website a few years ago, and I want to say there were maybe 200 graphs on there. If you go to their [ourworldindata.org/charts](https://ourworldindata.org/charts) page, I want to say there are thousands of different data points now.
I wanted to call out a few that I thought were interesting, but I guess what do you guys think? Isn't it crazy that there's so much data being collected?
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Sam Parr | I just clicked on one. It's adjusted net savings per capita from 1970 to 2020. You can see how much per capita a variety of countries are saving. It's pretty wild.
Congo and Portugal are not saving a lot of money, while Germany and France are really great savers. There are literally thousands of different charts. You know, Sean talks about these "one chart businesses." I can't think of anything for this chart, but there are many of these charts where you can see something and just spot interesting things.
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Shaan Puri | One of them is this population distribution of the world. Basically, this is a chart that looks at how many people in the world are young right now, meaning under 15, how many are of working age (15 to 65), and how many are elderly (65+).
The shocking thing about this chart is that it is a one-chart business right here. The elderly curve goes from today, like in the early 2020s, where it's under 1,000,000,000—it's by far the lowest, the smallest line. It's projected to cross over the young population and reach, by the end of the projection, 2,500,000,000.
So, that's the biggest growth area. The working-age population kind of flattens out, while the young population decreases, and the elderly population has this huge spike.
If you're building anything in elder care that you're going to own for, let's say, 10 to 20 years, you have this immense tailwind behind you. The population of people who fit the customer base is going to grow dramatically. We're going to go from under 1,000,000,000 people to over 2.5 billion people in that market.
It's a case to say, for example, if you owned senior living facilities, you would benefit from the fact that occupancy is going to go up over time in this way.
Now, of course, technology may completely upend things—AI and all that—but you can see these huge trends that are going to be very hard to reverse. It's hard to imagine a scenario where we change the direction of these lines. It would take a whole societal-level shift to change where these lines are going.
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Sam Parr | Did you guys see the video of Kim Jong Un, the North Korean leader? He was delivering a speech this week where he was pleading and begging his people to start having sex and having babies because the population is just dwindling.
He's literally crying; you can see tears coming down his face. The rest of the audience is crying too, and he's begging them, "Please have babies." It's really fascinating. | |
Shaan Puri | this yeah | |
Sam Parr | I thought it's just crying in front of a man crying in | |
Shaan Puri | In front of you, begging you to have children. I mean, just light some candles and put on some R. Kelly, and it'll get it done.
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Sam Parr | Yeah, I mean, it was crazy. I think I didn't realize... It's funny, I'm looking at this chart and seeing his video. I didn't realize how big of a problem it is. But there are so many here. Which ones stick out to you, Steph?
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Steph Smith | so I just linked another one that I think again is this like one chart business this one's hard to get involved with but I think it's it's the lithium production if you pull that up I just linked it in the documents and you can see that lithium production which obviously is the core ingredient in many of our batteries is concentrated in just a few countries a lot of it's in china a lot of it's in a few countries in south america that's another example of just as you're browsing through a bunch of these these charts I think that one jumps out but the one I wanted to dive into in-depth is air pollution so if you click the the the stat in here in our document that says air pollution is one of the world's leading risk factors for death which maybe is obvious to some people but to me when I think about it's like what are what are the key causes of death what am I afraid of air pollution is not at the top of that list however I also stumbled upon patrick collison's pollution page he's got a bunch of cool pages on his website he's got a page with just a bunch of questions one of them's on pollution and he says that the world bank indicates that 3,700,000,000 people so about half the world's population are exposed to this metric of pm 2.5 that that has to do with like the size of particles in the air they're exposed to around 5 times the the unit of measure that he correlates with a bunch of things which include lower gdp it includes stock market returns being lower people making worse decisions like chess players making mistakes politicians using less less complex speech so those are just you know some fun facts but I think what's what's really important is obviously the the health side of things and there's another stat that I'll just quickly share which is from a newsletter called charter which says that india's capital this was recently breached the 450 mark on the air quality index over 4 times the healthy level and basically they're in this hazardous zone which is akin to smoking 25 to 30 cigarettes a day and obviously that is an outlier but I wanted to call this out because I think air quality is something that is is a problem in a lot of places clearly some more than others but it's something that I think people are gonna be caring about a lot more and maybe one one product that came out in the last year or so that's indicative of that that a lot of people made fun of was the dyson mask headphones so I'll I'll stop there | |
Sam Parr | what what what were those | |
Shaan Puri | yeah I never saw those | |
Steph Smith | They are headphones that have basically a mask and an air purifier attached to them.
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Sam Parr | wow and they're expensive they're a $1,000 I think right | |
Steph Smith | they are $700 from what I can see | |
Sam Parr | And what this came out, people just made fun of them. Well, if you Google images, it's like a white guy in the New York subway wearing it. You know what I mean? It's a little off because you're talking about India and a few other countries, not maybe the New York subway. So it's kind of like a misleading ad they have. But that's pretty fascinating. Are these taking off?
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Steph Smith | No, I think they're in that zone of a lot of people making fun of them. However, the reason I'm calling this out is because I think there is this understanding that, you know, it's just in New Delhi. It's not, you know, anywhere close to home. But I think, have you guys ever used an air quality index measure in your home or like a CO2 monitor?
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Shaan Puri | Yeah, I have multiple times. I bought these air purifier things that also measure the air quality in my house. I have them, and it's shocking whenever it turns red. It's like, "Oh God, there's something going on." You know, we need to air this place out or whatever.
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Steph Smith | Yeah, so, I mean, air quality changes over time. I don't know, I've been noticing more, even in San Francisco, a few days where people are like, "Oh, I'm wearing a mask at work not because of COVID, but because... oh gosh, have you checked the air quality?"
A lot of people aren't doing this still today, but I think that'll change. If you use some of these devices, like the CO2 monitor, for example, you literally... if you go to bed with your door closed and you wake up and check that thing, it is wild how high it is.
You know, all you need to do is open a window or circulate the air in your home. I think as people become more educated on this, some of these devices, like the air quality monitors, are going to take off. You can also see some of this data in Jungle Scout, as well, regarding the kinds of products that people are buying.
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Shaan Puri | do you see what did you see anything in jungle scout that stood out any product that | |
Steph Smith | Stood well. So, there's one product which has to do with an AC furnace and an air filter. But guess how much this thing sells every single month?
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Sam Parr | what is it | |
Steph Smith | it's an ac furnace air filter and an air quality monitor | |
Sam Parr | And so, what does that mean literally? Like, the filter I put on the vents of my... I've got like 8 vents around my home, and I put these filters there. Is that what you're referring to? Like those cloth-like filters?
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Steph Smith | you it's a filter you would put on your on your furnace | |
Sam Parr | got it okay | |
Shaan Puri | Alright, so what I'm looking at here is, yeah, like the kind of standard air vent filters that you have to swap out every, whatever, 6 months or so. But also, it's a smart one, so it has a monitor associated with it that has an app. This thing costs $250.
Yeah, I have no idea, but it sounds like it might be a little high. So tell us, what does Jungle Scout tell us for the revenue?
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Steph Smith | Seeing 4 entries in Jungle Scout, and they are 17,000,000, 12,000,000, 8,000,000, and 8,000,000.
So, what is that all total? That's like over **$40,000,000** per month.
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Sam Parr | is this what | |
Steph Smith | This is what Jungle Scout is saying, so you know, take it with a grain of salt. I'm not sure how they measure, but they tend to be pretty accurate.
So that's an example of, I think, as people again try to understand the air quality around them, I think there's a growing business here.
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Shaan Puri | That is fascinating! I want to point out another thing.
So, this chart that you have of the causes of death... The top risk factors, I think I might have chosen the United States here, but in the United States, I believe the top ones are smoking (number 1), high blood pressure, high blood sugar, and obesity.
So, I have a crazy story to tell you. I can't say his name because he asked me not to. He said he prefers to stay under the radar, but...
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Sam Parr | I have a friend | |
Shaan Puri | Who is an investor, and he's a very different kind of investor. What you see on Twitter often is people who are investors; they like to be loud about what they do. They'll just kind of "spray and pray." They're doing a lot of deals, and they love to be angels, putting in $20K checks.
My friend is very different. He says that in every year, there's like one thing that matters, maybe two. His whole job is to just find the one or two things that matter. I've known him for, you know, maybe 10 years now. At one time, it was like, "It's Bitcoin, right?" I was like, "Bitcoin? Really? Are you sure?" This was, you know, let's say 2013, 2014, 2015, somewhere around there. He was like, "It's Bitcoin."
Then he was the one who said, "OnlyFans, I'm all in on OnlyFans." I was like, "OnlyFans? What is that?" This was before any of the revenue numbers had come out about OnlyFans. He said, "I think..." and I was at Twitch at the time. He said, "OnlyFans is bigger than Twitch, or it's going to be bigger than Twitch." I was like, "No, dude, Twitch is like one of the biggest internet sites on Earth." He said, "Trust me, it's going to be bigger."
He called it basically each year, and he doesn't necessarily always get to invest, but he's trying to identify what is the thing.
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Sam Parr | did he get in on those | |
Shaan Puri | Yeah, so like for a couple of these... He’s got the ones I’ve mentioned so far. He did. Then he texted me the other day and he goes, “GLP > GPT.”
So this is like, I talked to him maybe, I don’t know, 9 months or a year ago, and he was like, “Yeah, I think this Ozempic stuff is the thing for the year.” I was like, “Really? Isn’t it AI?” He’s like, “No, I think this... I think GLP is bigger than GPT.”
I was like, “What do you mean?” He’s like, “I’m trying to figure out the right way to invest in this because they’re all like basically Ozempic, and the makers of these are all public stocks. So I could buy that, but the upside is not exactly there. So I’m trying to figure out what’s the move.”
He told me, “There’s one company I invested in several years ago that might actually be a beneficial beneficiary of it.” So yesterday, he sends me an article. Karma... this Carmo, this pharmaceutical company got bought for $3,000,000,000 yesterday, and they’re a maker of GLP drugs. He was an early investor in it; he invested in it like 7 years ago or something.
I was like, “Dude, how did you get in on this?” He’s like, “Well, you know, at the time, this all wasn’t clear. I can’t say that I definitely didn’t know about that, but these guys were drug makers that were attacking obesity drugs in a different way. Just looking at the charts about what kills everybody, you know, like obesity is a massive, massive problem. There aren’t that many interesting bets of who’s attacking obesity in a different way. These guys were one of them, and I liked their team and whatnot, so I invested early on.”
I was like, “Jeez, man, just to have like a $3,000,000,000 exit out of nowhere... kind of amazing.”
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Sam Parr | what do you think his return on that was | |
Shaan Puri | I don't want to say, but you know, he got in fairly early, and $3,000,000,000 is a big number. So, I think he did extremely well on that one.
What I will say is that he kind of looks at these like megatrends. This is kind of what you're showing here, Seth. If you understand how big the wave is, then it simplifies life. You can ignore all the small waves if you know what the mega, you know, the big tidal waves are. You just figure out, "Okay, what's the best way to surf this?"
Even if you don't figure out the best way, even the fourth best way to surf a megatrend is going to work in your favor. I've heard this now from a few investors, but also Mark Zuckerberg said this a while back.
I remember when we were working on some app that was like a messaging app, a text messaging app. This was maybe in 2015 or something, and it seemed like text messaging was the big thing. Zuck came out and said, "There are only a few megatrends. Mobile was the last one, and the new one is video."
He said, "Video is a megatrend. Everything is moving to video. People are kind of communicating through video. They're watching more and more video—short video, long video, medium-sized video, scripted videos, UGC videos. It's all going to video."
I had never heard anyone say this word "megatrend," and when Zuck said that, I started to pay attention. We actually ended up pivoting our company into video streaming, live video. We were like, "Oh, we'll go for live video."
That's the company that got bought. When we got acquired by Twitch, it was because we were just partially in the right space—like live video streaming. There weren't that many people working on it in an interesting way, but live video kept growing, kept growing, kept growing at this really fast rate.
So, it was smart to get out of the tech scene and get on the right megatrend.
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Steph Smith | Yeah, you know, something I'll mention about the air quality stuff that's related to what you said there, Sean, is I feel like one missing gap with air quality readings and devices is that it's not obvious.
I feel like most people would be surprised to realize, "Oh my gosh, I inhale all this stuff and it has these adverse effects." It ranks here on the likelihood of death, but it's not obvious. It's not in your face.
Let's say, like the GLP-1s; people see themselves every day and they're constantly trying to improve their image and how other people interpret them. So I think maybe one thing that if someone was going to go figure this out... You guys have talked about the air and the water filters people go into your home.
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Sam Parr | they still bring that up | |
Steph Smith | They say, "Did you know you're drinking this much of basically rocks, other sediment, and lead in your water? Can you believe it?" And they show you.
So, I feel like there's an element of that where it's going to take a while for people to really care about the air quality stuff. But there may be some middle ground where some company is able to effectively give people that information.
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Shaan Puri | Yeah, I put it differently. I don't think it's going to take a while. I think it's going to take a marketer for people to care.
It's just going to take a marketer and a product design that puts it in your face and educates you about this. It kind of scares you about it, but then says, "Don't worry, there's a solution."
That's how a lot of things get done. A great marketer or product designer figures out the way to put it in your face. | |
Sam Parr | Did you guys remember what Rob Dyrdek said? So, Rob Dyrdek came on, and he didn't spend too much time talking about this, but he mentioned that he bought a good chunk of a company that is doing water filters for showers.
I have a bunch of friends who are health freaks. Justin Mayers is one of them; he's a health enthusiast and a great entrepreneur. He was like, "Man, I installed this really expensive, basically Berkeley filter," which is that big metal jug you see in people's homes. He wanted to install one for his whole home because he wanted his shower water to also be completely filtered. He went through this whole ordeal to do this.
Then, Rob Dyrdek invested in this company that is basically making a showerhead that is a filter. It's ideally simplifying that entire process. He talked about that on this podcast, but he didn't spend too much time discussing it. I went and researched a bit about it, and I think that is going to be a pretty big company.
I imagine it's going to be like the boxed mattress trend, where no one has them, and then suddenly many people do, leading to tons and tons of competition. I don't think that's a particularly hard company to create. I don't know what the moat is entirely, but I imagine there will be a whole bunch of people in that space.
So, I'm pretty much on board with what he said. I think you have an interesting insight, particularly with the AC vents. That's another product that literally everyone has in their home. You have to replace it two or three times a year, and it's a really easy Instagram ad to make.
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Shaan Puri | alright let's move let's go to the next one what else you got | |
Steph Smith | Alright, the next one in here is **Gadget Flow**. This is just an interesting site that aggregates gadgets.
I want to call out two things here. The first is, if you look at the most popular gadgets, you might say, "Well, what's the opportunity here?" Right? Like, I'm not going to create a drone like DJI. I'm not going to create the next AR/VR device; Apple is doing that, Meta is doing that.
So, there's no opportunity? I just wanted to call out that every time there's a new device that ends up penetrating a lot of people's homes or wallets, there's almost always an opportunity for accessories. A good example that we covered years ago, Sam, on Trends was **AirPods**.
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Sam Parr | and you have got a crazy stat on that you've got a crazy airpods | |
Shaan Puri | stat | |
Steph Smith | This was forever ago. I wonder what it is now, but back then, it was like early on in the AirPod journey. It was said that if AirPods were a standalone company, they would be in the Fortune 50 or something like that. I was like, "Whoa, whoa!"
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Sam Parr | I think your stat was that AirPods make more revenue than like Spotify, Snapchat, and Airbnb combined. Yeah.
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Steph Smith | I think Twitter was on that too. It was, yeah, and that was again in 2019 or 2020.
Now, there are some crazy stats with AirPods. About **70% of all U.S. teens** have AirPods. That is like true penetration.
Early on in that trend, it's like, okay, there are cases, keychains, really simple stuff. But I think what is worth understanding, or what you can take away from this Gadget Flow website, is:
- What are the newest devices that are not going to have the scale of like 100 or 1,000 people using them, but millions or hundreds of millions?
- What are the adjacent accessories or products that I can create?
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Sam Parr | so how do you how do you use gadget flow | |
Steph Smith | So, Gadget Flow is not as much of a searchable database like something such as Jungle Scout. It's more so just what I would do if I came to this page.
First, I would look at the drop-down of "Most Popular." That's where you're going to see some of those big devices.
Another takeaway is some of the drop-down categories. I think the one that caught my eye was "Pet Accessories." Remember, Gadget Flow is all about tech devices. So, if you go to "Pet Accessories," there are a bunch of different things.
I guess you both have owned dogs. I've never owned a dog, but I wonder if you're familiar with any of these devices. In particular, there was one that I noticed. Have you guys heard of Fluent Pet?
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Sam Parr | no what's that | |
Shaan Puri | no what is it | |
Steph Smith | It is this really interesting trend of these buttons. **Fluent Pet** is a particular brand that I think is going pretty viral because of one account: this dog called **I Am Bunny**. This account has, I think, 1,000,000 followers on Instagram.
It's basically these buttons where you can... I don't know how well this works for all dogs, but you can kind of teach them to communicate with you by pushing these buttons to indicate what they want.
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Sam Parr | I've seen these, and it is actually really cool. The way it looks is like a Twister pad. Each color has a button on it. One button means "bathroom," one button means "food," and one button means "other thing." You could train your dog to click a button to tell you what they want. It's actually really interesting.
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Shaan Puri | cool | |
Sam Parr | Yeah, it's pretty awesome. I've seen these, and we trained our dog how to do that. I could tell what he wanted based off of a handful of activities that we taught him. This is actually really cool.
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Shaan Puri | Yeah, my dog is way too dumb for this, but this is awesome!
I thought yesterday, I took my dog out while I took my kids to gymnastics, and we brought the dog. All these kids love to come pet the dog.
So this kid comes up, probably like 7 years old or something, and he goes, "Oh, your dog is so cute!" I was like, "Thank you! Do you want to pet her?" He said, "Yeah." Then he asked, "What's her name?" I replied, "Her name is Bunsley."
He goes, "Aw, why didn't you give her a better name, like Rosalina?" I was like, "Okay, maybe I should have." I didn't know how to respond. I was like, "Man, I just got owned by this little kid!"
Yeah, what are you supposed to say to that? "Why didn't you give her a better name, like Rosalina?"
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Sam Parr | yeah it's like oh | |
Shaan Puri | my god what if I was I was it's like I got a jab in the nose | |
Steph Smith | sean did you name the dog | |
Shaan Puri | I did name the | |
Sam Parr | dog yes what what was the answer | |
Shaan Puri | I thought | |
Sam Parr | it was | |
Shaan Puri | a very regal sounding name | |
Sam Parr | I think your definition of regal and everyone else's definition is a little bit different | |
Shaan Puri | like a like a butler I don't know like oh bunsley | |
Sam Parr | Steph, are you just... what are you doing all day? Are you just clicking through all these? I mean, you probably have 100 or 50 different links here. Are you just clicking through this stuff all day? Wait.
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Shaan Puri | the tabs are open right now | |
Steph Smith | I wanna say 35 | |
Sam Parr | so and are you gonna | |
Shaan Puri | go through those or are you just a hoarder | |
Steph Smith | There's an order. There are like the Jungle Scout tabs grouped together and the SimilarWeb tabs grouped together. I don't know, I mean, I think so.
I will spend time every so often just going through these websites and scouring for ideas. But I think there are a few newsletters and things that I pay attention to that kind of surface ideas. If I find them interesting, I will go and check them, you know, in SimilarWeb or Jungle Scout or whatever.
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Sam Parr | And I know you're at a 16z now, and I presume you're happy. But inevitably, one day you're going to go and start a company. I think you have it in you. I believe you're going to do that.
What do you think it will be? Which category? Because you've seen all this data. You look at all this data. What’s going to interest you whenever you do it?
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Steph Smith | well I don't wanna share the ideas that I actually wanna pursue soon because | |
Sam Parr | which category | |
Steph Smith | You could say games, or I like the idea of, you know, people. We've talked about this before. Someone, if you guys remember, Neil Agarwal from neil.fun.
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Shaan Puri | yeah great great website | |
Steph Smith | You know, part of me... we talk about these big ideas like AI and biotech, and it's all very interesting.
And, you know, someone please go become the air quality marketer that we all need. But part of me just wants to create things that I wish I saw on the internet or I wish existed on the internet.
I want to aggregate some of these ideas or get people to learn things in ways that they never thought of before. So, I kind of just want to be... this is too silly of a term for this, but like an artist. An internet artist, if that makes sense.
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Sam Parr | Are you working at an investment firm now? Is this something that you'd raise money for, or would you want to do it all on your own?
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Steph Smith | I'd do it on my own | |
Sam Parr | you wouldn't raise money | |
Shaan Puri | I don't | |
Steph Smith | I think it's the kind of... it's not a VC internet artist who's going to... are they going to be like, do they have those in Massachusetts? | |
Sam Parr | alright well I was just curious | |
Shaan Puri | I mean, levels... it's like the internet, like the Banksy of internet art right now, right? Like, he's kind of one of those guys.
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Steph Smith | yeah exactly | |
Sam Parr | And I think you will do that. I'm eager to see when you finally do it. I think you're going to do really well in it. | |
Shaan Puri | Well, they have her trapped because I saw her do something yesterday that made me just shake my head. She tweeted out, "Who's got the best company swag in the world?"
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Steph Smith | no don't sell me out like that shot | |
Shaan Puri | A backpack, a koozie, and a water bottle, all with "A 16 Z" on them. No doubt, they were beautiful products. It's great to get free stuff, but that's how they get you. I was like, "No, they're wrapping their tentacles around you."
You know what's the two most addictive things in the world? Heroin and a monthly salary. Well, the third is free swag.
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Sam Parr | yeah they don't even you don't even have golden handcuffs you have a black umbrella that's what they did for you | |
Shaan Puri | My, my, the internet artist that I want to follow and admire does not fall into the traps of company swag.
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Steph Smith | like they reject company swag | |
Shaan Puri | They reject company swag. When I saw you post that, I was like, "Oh no, she's in too deep." It's like an inception. We need to wake her up. She's so far in level 3 of inception, and we gotta snap her out of this.
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Steph Smith | well I mean I am human I am convinced by free stuff | |
Sam Parr | it looks like they got you with a book bag and umbrella and a poncho | |
Steph Smith | that's what | |
Shaan Puri | that's what | |
Steph Smith | It shows, so for all the people who have previously tried to coach me, that's all you need: just send me a backpack and a poncho.
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Sam Parr | well I I'm eager to see you start a company where do you wanna go from here sean | |
Shaan Puri | Yeah, I think we should wrap it up. But, Steph, where can people get more of this type of stuff specifically?
You have this very unique method to your madness. You know these nooks and crannies. You're like those people who go to a city and think, "I really wish I just knew what tourist traps to avoid, what good places to go, and what's the best place to eat."
Oh, you know this hole-in-the-wall where you can enter through the chef's kitchen and blah, blah, blah. You're like that for the internet. So, how can people get more of that?
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Steph Smith | So, like you said, it's my **seventh** time on *My First Million*, which is kind of crazy. Ever since the first few times, I would come with these documents, and you guys would be very nice and hype up the docs, saying, "Oh my gosh, this is so crazy! There's so much info in here."
I constantly get people reaching out, asking for those docs and for an aggregation of all the websites that I visit, how to use them, and how to internet sleuth. I like to use the term "internet pipes."
So, I'm putting together something. I don't know what to call it; maybe you guys can help me with it. It aggregates these internet pipes and shows people how to use them. I think the only thing I've done is aggregate them and then buy the domain *internetpipes*. But I think by the time this episode goes live, I'll probably have some sort of presale up on that page if people are interested.
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Sam Parr | what are you gonna charge for it | |
Steph Smith | Okay, if you guys have a minute, I want your opinion because I think I'm going to do something wrong here.
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Sam Parr | Don't just... don't use the "C" word. You can't say "course." You have to call it something else, like "research" or "I don't know." You gotta use ChatGPT, but something involving the word "research" out of magic.
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Shaan Puri | This one guy that used to really have a lot of knowledge. He read a lot of books and he had a Lamborghini in his garage. He also had a course, so maybe you can take his blueprint. He had a good one. | |
Steph Smith | I mean, I don't know what I'm going to call it. I don't like the idea of it being a course because I want it to just be a resource that people can go to. It's not like a teachable course or something like that.
But what do I charge for something like that? When I did my book, I used a tiered pricing scheme where it started at $10 and then it went up for every 30 or 50 sales. But I have no idea; I feel like I'm going to end up charging too little.
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Sam Parr | what was that called | |
Steph Smith | it's called doing content right | |
Sam Parr | So, doing content, right? Sean, tell me what you would have done in this situation.
So, Steph worked at my company. Yeah, and she was talented. She worked at my company while she was doing this. I remember, Steph, someone came to me and they were like, "Do you care that Steph is doing this and launching this content book?"
And I was like, "No, why should I care?" Would you have cared, Sean?
And I think, Seth, you made... I don't know, you could say what you made, but you made great money. You maybe made more than we were paying.
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Shaan Puri | yeah | |
Sam Parr | you mean did did you make more doing the book than I paid you | |
Steph Smith | maybe in the 1st year | |
Sam Parr | And Sean, what would you have said if your employee was doing this? Would you have been pro or anti?
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Shaan Puri | Yeah, I would have been pro. I mean, it's fine; I have no problem with that. I would have had a conversation just to be like, "Cool, where are we going with this? What's the... where does this live in your life? Is this like a fun side project? Is this what you actually want to go do?" Then maybe I can help you go do that in a more... I just kind of want to know where that lives.
And I just, you know, obviously, yeah, for you, Steph was like a star performer. So, you know, stars get like more rope to go do things. If you're doing a mediocre job and then you got the side hustle, that's the final straw for me, right? Then you're not putting your energy towards actually getting a good outcome. But Steph was crushing it, so, you know, I don't... | |
Sam Parr | I think we were pretty encouraging of people to do stuff unless they were screwing up. I don't know if we ever lost an employee because of their side thing, but I think that was pre-Twitter getting popular like it is now.
In the future, I maybe wouldn't have encouraged it, and it's kind of messed up, but I didn't encourage it back then.
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Shaan Puri | Well, that's what I mean by wanting to know where it lives in your life. If this is kind of what you really want to do, then let's just be honest about it. Let's have an honest conversation, and we can figure out what's the right pathway forward.
If you're like, "I just want to make a little bit of extra money," we could talk about how, if you just did X, Y, Z, you can make that happen. You don't have to start a separate business, right? If that's the motivation.
If you're just like, "Oh yeah, I just use this for serendipity and networking, and I just kind of like to put stuff out there on nights and weekends," like this is my hobby. That's what I told people when I was doing things. I'd say, "You know, business is my hobby."
So, for you, when you log off work, you might go to CrossFit or you might go play golf. What I do is I read, I write, I make things. That's what I like to do on the internet. So, you know, this is just me doing that hobby. You do Taekwondo or whatever you do, and I think there are just some people that are like that. You gotta let them spread their wings.
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Steph Smith | I mean, I think also to your point, Sean, it depends. Is this like an ongoing thing forever? Are you going to be writing, you know, doing a course every quarter, and it's going to take up all your time?
I intentionally approached this project partially because I didn't want it to last forever. But also, it's just my psychology to get something done and out there. I compressed it into a 6-week timeframe and said, "This is the only time I'm going to allocate to this."
I feel like for this new project that I'm launching too, it's kind of the same thing. I don't want to be doing a course forever, with people checking in with me. I just have this little burst of creativity where I need to get something out there to exist, and then that's it.
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Shaan Puri | Yeah, your question was, "What should you charge for it?" I don't think this is going to make a ton of money because the type of person that wants to buy this is somebody like you.
So, there aren't that many people who are like, "Hey, I just have some disposable income that I'm going to use so that I can have better internet, random research tools, and the ability to lurk and just find interesting things on the internet." I think those are awesome people, but it's not like a mass market, right?
So, you either have to charge a bunch, or you go the other way and charge very little. But you get the value in a separate way. For you, what I would be doing is using this as a honey pot to attract the type of person that's going to pay even $99, or whatever, to $100 a year to have access to this database.
That person is likely someone you would want to hang out with for three hours, most likely. So, I would just use it as a way to build a community. The value isn't going to come from the direct monetization of this asset, but from the little community you build and the interesting investments you get out of it, or introductions, or opportunities, or the company you started from this.
That's where I think you're going to get way more value than just trying to charge a premium for this.
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Sam Parr | A business, but it'll pay for her monthly expenses. You're doing content, right? Plus, a new thing, you'll make $25,000 a month, I think.
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Shaan Puri | We'll see. Yeah, but like your needs are covered, right?
One thing I think about a lot is that more of the same keeps me where I am. If I keep doing things that keep me at the same level of the game, I'll never have the bandwidth to do whatever it's going to take to get me to the next level.
For example, I had a course that I was teaching maybe 5 to 10 days a year—not much—and it was making over $1,000,000 a year. That's an amazing effort-to-pay-off ratio. Then I stopped and I was like, "Why?" Because for me, making an extra $1,000,000 a year is not going to get me to the next level of the game I'm trying to play at.
So I was like, if I'm trying to get to where, let's just say, I want to make $20,000,000 a year—okay, let's say that was the goal—then I need to have enough room on my plate, just empty space, that will force me to go create the thing that gets me to the next level.
I might even give things away for free if it's going to create the serendipity that's going to open up new opportunities that are bigger.
So that's just something to think about. Do you care about maybe the next level of financial freedom or wealth that will give you more runway? More ability to use money to do the things you want, like the internet art type of thing? If you do, maybe you could use this as a tool to get the right people around you and do something else. I don't know, it's just more... totally.
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Steph Smith | I mean, one of the biggest learnings from the book was that some people are like, "Oh, you're totally undercharging." But it's like, how do you deliver a product at a price that people are so happy with that they go and share it, talk about it, and also want to work with you? They should actually digest the information instead of...
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Sam Parr | and requires no customer service | |
Steph Smith | Yeah, exactly. Where there, it's just like it runs itself; it markets itself. That's what ended up happening with the book.
So, I am leaning more in that direction. But then I also was expecting you guys to be like, "No, no, no! Charge more! You always undercharge." But I guess maybe I should keep... | |
Shaan Puri | It low. Tim Ferriss said something that changed my thinking on this. Tim Ferriss said, "I had a strategy which was ultra free or ultra premium." He goes, "I was gonna give away 99% of what I do for literally free because I'm trying to reach the broadest number of people possible. I want to over-deliver. I treat it like it's a paid product, but I deliver it for free to the masses."
Then, on one day... He gives the example that he did this back when he was working on "The 4-Hour Workweek" and whatnot. So, he's blogging for free, podcasting for free, and then he said, "Hey, I'm doing a two-day, kind of like an in-person workshop seminar thing that's gonna..."
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Sam Parr | that open the kimono thing or | |
Shaan Puri | Open the kimono. Yeah, exactly. I think he did $2 or $3 million in sales in like 30 minutes, right? Because people were like, "I will pay $10,000." He was like, "It's expensive. I don't expect everybody to be able to afford this or want to. I'm not even gonna promise anything, but if you're a fan of what I do, like I'm gonna do this open the kimono thing, and it's 2 days."
I think he made $2 to $4 million on that day. He said, "If I had been trying to charge along the way, like let me do this little ebook for $9, then let me do this monthly subscription for $20 a month," he said, "I would've had a smaller audience and less money."
The same thing goes for his podcast ads. He said, "I would rather have no ad in the thing or charge an ultra premium to a premium brand because there's always a market for luxury. There's always a market for the absolute best."
So, I wanted to make the absolute best product and then charge the absolute best price I could for that. That was his strategy when it came to that.
I think Alex Hormozi does a similar thing. Hormozi is like, "Look, I could be trying to make a little bit of money here, a little bit of money there, do a course, do a seminar, do whatever." But he's like, "No, no, no. I'm gonna be really in your face that this stuff is normally what people charge for. I'm giving it to you for free."
This builds a bunch of goodwill and a big audience. Then, when he's ready to charge, he'll make all the money back and more. In his case, it's a combination of Acquisitions.com, where he's like, "I'm gonna buy equity in your business at this super sweetheart deal for me because I've built up so much goodwill and reputation among my potential acquisition targets."
If he ever does a course, seminar, or a live in-person event, he'll be able to charge $25,000 per person to get in, and he'll make $10 million in one day because he's built it that way.
I think there's something to learn from these people that play the real long game. | |
Steph Smith | Totally. I don't think I could charge $25,000 for anything, but we'll see. We'll see if I ever get there.
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Sam Parr | well you do you you you get paid more than that | |
Steph Smith | that's true that's true | |
Sam Parr | So, I mean, you definitely do and you definitely can. I think that you will eventually, for sure.
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Steph Smith | Someone, by the way, I read the comments, and I read one from an episode I was on ages ago. Someone wrote something like, "Wow, Steph has a really intense case of imposter syndrome," and I was like, "Oh, true." Anyway, I guess if people want to find...
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Sam Parr | By the way, I'll tell you this now. Do you remember when I was negotiating your salary when you first joined? You asked for a number. I don't remember if I did this for you, but women, in particular, would typically do this. They would say a number, and I would say a number back, or I would just say a number to them, and they would just accept it.
I would be like, "Hey, you should negotiate with me." Women, in particular, were horrible at pushing back on their salary for what they should ask for. My company was small; we hired probably 75 people in total. But I noticed a small trend: women, in particular, did not push back nearly as hard as the men.
There were many men who would push back, and it was laughable what they would ask for. I would think, "There's not a chance I'm going to give you this, but I guess I'll meet you somewhere in the middle to adjust this." It was crazy! I was thinking you were a $150,000-a-year person, but you dressed for $70,000. That's just ridiculous.
I remember with you, Steph, we gave you a lot of bumps over how long you worked with us, but you started way too low. I would encourage you to, maybe not for this product, but to definitely elevate what you should be demanding for pay. I think you're doing alright now at a $160,000 salary, but I've noticed this with you in particular among very, very, very smart and qualified young women.
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Steph Smith | Yeah, it took me around... what is it? So, 21 to 28, when I... 28 or 29 when I joined a16z. So, it took me like 7 years or so to actually learn to negotiate. So, I agree.
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Shaan Puri | Can I tell you about an embarrassing version of impostor syndrome that I have? It's not exactly impostor syndrome, but I call it "Michael Scott syndrome."
Sometimes, and I've felt this for like 10 years, I always hire people who are super smart. That's great upfront, but the downside is that sometimes you just feel like Michael Scott. You're like, "Oh, I'm the idiot in the office," and I'm telling these people that I'm actually in their way.
These people are kind of looking at me the way that Jim Halpert looks at Michael Scott, and I'm like, "Oh no, it's happening." That's the Michael Scott thing happening. Have you ever felt that?
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Sam Parr | Yes, I felt that way all the time. Then I realized, I felt that way for a long time. I thought, "Oh wait, no, that just means I'm good at hiring." So, I should just get out of the way. | |
Shaan Puri | what Scott would do he turned into a compliment for himself | |
Sam Parr | No, I felt that way too. I remember hiring people that were, a, older than me and, b, smarter. I'm like, "What the fuck are these people? Did I really just convince this person? Did I just trick this person into coming and joining anything I'm doing?" I feel horrible about that.
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Shaan Puri | we are | |
Sam Parr | I feel that same way | |
Shaan Puri | One woman that's so good at what she does in our e-commerce business is incredibly fast—literally, so fast and hyper-productive. She gets done the work of three people in the same amount of time.
She is the one who "Michael Scott's" me all the time. I'm in a meeting telling her something, and I'm like, "Yeah, let's follow up next week on that." And she's like, "I already sent it out." I'm thinking, "While I was talking?" I was giving you such a good anecdote and metaphor, and oh, you just finished it?
Okay, I guess I could've shut up five minutes ago. I realized, actually, this is a great thing. Just like you said, Sam, it's not that I'm great at hiring. I said, "Now this is actually the bar. I only want to hire people that make me feel like I'm Michael. I'm the Michael Scott of the office." That's actually how it should feel when you're doing it right.
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Sam Parr | should feel that means you're good at hiring now you just gotta get the hell out the way you did the hard part | |
Shaan Puri | funny that's the other thing | |
Sam Parr | yeah I don't know about that | |
Steph Smith | I'm just gonna quickly shout out, if people want to go find it, **internetpipes.com**. I guess we'll figure out the price; it'll be live when this goes live.
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Sam Parr | alright that's the pod steph thank you for doing this |