Steph Smith: “This opportunity is totally overlooked”

Sam Parr

Alright, we're live with **Steph Smith**. Steph, this is your 8th time on the podcast, is that right?

Steph Smith

I know, it's wild. Yes.

Sam Parr

You sent me a document in advance, and it had a bunch of stuff, but there was one topic that caught my eye. It's called the **silver tsunami**, which basically just means that we are living way longer than expected. If it's cool with you, I kind of just want to talk about that topic this entire time because there were so many stats here that kind of shocked me. Give me the background. Tell us some of the background. What's the silver tsunami, and what's like the one-sentence summary of this entire topic?

Steph Smith

I mean, the simplest summary is just that we're expected to live much longer. I think there's this kind of misconception that we've hit some sort of plateau in aging. In the last several decades, the statistic is that for every decade, we've added 2 to 3 years to the average lifespan. This means that we are expected to grow older compared to our parents and their parents, etc. The simplest way to look at it is if you go to Our World in Data's life expectancy chart. You can see that around 1900, something fundamentally changed, and we're just growing much older. This has to do with child mortality but also with extending life expectancy by maybe 50 years. What this means is that you have this cohort of people, often referred to as the "silver tsunami," who are going to be around for a lot longer than people might expect. This impacts a ton of things: it affects the pensions that people were expecting, the kind of nursing homes we need, and the healthcare considerations for older individuals. It also impacts a lot of young people who, at least in theory, have to support these older individuals. So, this whole "silver tsunami" is a little bit overlooked.

Sam Parr

So, alright, I want to go through the story. This is the story of what has changed and what to expect in the next... well, I guess if you're listening to this, you're probably at least 18 years old, all the way up to 80 years old. But let's just say the average is between 25 to 35 years old. If you're in that demographic, here's what to expect. After that, we'll go through the different business opportunities, potential issues, and other things that might exist if all this comes to fruition.

Steph Smith

Yeah, so maybe let's start with a really simple stat. I got this from a book called *Longevity Imperative* that I read recently. The author is from the UK, so he uses UK data here. He says that in the UK, in 1965, the most common age of death was the first year. That's perhaps not surprising, but today, the most common age to die is 87. So that's a really simple encapsulation of how things have completely flipped on their side. But then, let's move on to maybe cohort data. I'd like you to guess the chance of a newborn girl in Japan, as of 2020 data. What is their chance of living till 20?

Sam Parr

Close to 100%... 98.

Steph Smith

So, there's a 99.6% chance now, I guess the same for living to 40.

Sam Parr

To 40, 90, 5, 90%.

Steph Smith

99 and the chance of making it to 60.

Sam Parr

98? No, no, no, that's too high. 95 again.

Steph Smith

96%. So, if you think about it, a woman in Japan born in 2020, or as of 2020 data, has a 96% chance of making it to 60. That's pretty close to 100%. Obviously, that's not 100%, but your calculus changes when you fundamentally expect to live to 60.

Sam Parr

So, whenever I think about my life, it's kind of messed up. I actually think that I'm only going to live to be 75, which means at the age of 35, I'm nearly halfway through my life. But then, when I calculate... I do this weird thing with my net worth where I add in these calculators. I'm like, "Alright, if I have what I have now and it grows at 8% a year, that means at the age of 40, I'll have this; at the age of 50, I'll have this." I’ll drag it out to like 110, and I'm like, "Holy crap! At age 110, I'm going to have this!" The number is just massive, right? So, in some ways, I assume I'm going to live to be 110. In other ways, I assume I'm going to live to be 75, which is actually totally... that range is problematic. What ages do people like you and me... we do a lot of stuff that is good for our health and we have resources. What are we going to live to then?

Steph Smith

Well, I think, yeah, the average lifespan in America is longer than 75. But, I mean, in theory, it's going to be a range. That's part of the complexity here. So, Sam, you're also thinking about this from the perspective of someone who sold a company. You have a nest egg, and you can imagine how that nest egg grows over time. But imagine the flip side for the average American who expects to retire at 65. If you're only expecting to live to 75, then you can probably save up for 10 years of life. However, as soon as you're living to 85, maybe even 95, then you are, in theory, having to save up for 30 years of life. The way that, again, our economics, real estate, and all of that isn't really set up for people living substantially longer. By the way, the last thing I'll say there is one thing that I was surprised by in the book. This isn't surprising: America is falling behind some of the other G7 nations regarding longevity. But I thought it was because generally people were dying earlier. It's actually due to these things called "diseases of despair," such as alcoholism, drugs, etc. However, if you remove those, Americans are living just as long as the comparable nations.

Sam Parr

And so, what are some other crazy stats around this? Because you had some ridiculous stuff. For example, you said something like America was spending some absurd number for NASA in getting to the moon, which is awesome. I'm in favor of that. Then you compared it to how much they were spending for longevity or expanding life, and it was like a fraction of the amount. Is that true?

Steph Smith

Well, I think there are a couple of different stats to consider. In America, healthcare is about **20% of GDP**, which is huge. However, I think the specific stats you were looking at were shared on Twitter. It was basically that **0.8% of the U.S. budget** is spent on kidney dialysis, which is about three times what NASA spends. All these people need dialysis; I think Medicare spends over **$50 billion** annually on dialysis and other related treatments, which is just wild. This is an example of how, when health goes awry and people are living to old age, the budget required for it is just blowing up.

Sam Parr

And so, what are the opportunities here?

Steph Smith

Let's start with one topic that maybe the MFM listener base won't be super stoked on, particularly the four female listeners. One really interesting subject is **menopause**. Menopause is when women's ovaries stop working, so it obviously impacts anyone with ovaries once you get to a certain age. Here's an interesting statistic from that book: below the age of 55, cardiovascular illness is a more likely cause of mortality in men. After 55, around the menopause stage, it basically reverses. What menopause is, and I’m obviously oversimplifying, is like a super, super accelerated aging process for women.

Sam Parr

What age does that typically happen? 50.

Steph Smith

Yeah, around like 50 or 60, in that range. I think sometimes even earlier, sometimes in the forties, but I haven't hit it yet. So I haven't experienced it firsthand. What happens is, it's like fundamentally your hormones are changing. One of your most significant organs is just no longer producing eggs. Your body ends up having all these symptoms. People often refer to 34 symptoms of menopause. Just due to the nature of it, you could say 6,000 women in the U.S. hit menopause every single day. So if you think about people who are all of a sudden facing this thing that they've never faced before, it's kind of like pregnancy. Interestingly, there are all these companies that are oriented around people getting pregnant and having that done successfully. There are apps like Flow...

Sam Parr

Dude, Flow is a massive business, isn't it?

Steph Smith

Yeah, I mean, at least even publicly on their site, they say over **380 million** people use it.

Sam Parr

**And what's flow do?**

Steph Smith

So, Flow is a tracking app, or at least that's how they started. But I think they've expanded. Even when you track your... I use it, right? It'll give you suggestions on like, "Are you bloated?" or "Should you be eating this, this, or this?" It's actually pretty simplistic, but 380 million people use it because it's just like, again, the dam is so big of people who care about this thing.

Sam Parr

Alright, so a lot of people watch and listen to the show because they want to hear us tell them exactly what to do when it comes to starting or growing a business. Really, a lot of people who are listening have a full-time job and they want to start something on the side—a side hustle. Now, many people message Sean and me and say, "Alright, I want to start something on the side. Is this a good idea? Is that a good idea?" What they're really saying is, "Just give me the ideas." Well, my friends, you're in luck! My old company, The Hustle, put together 100 different side hustle ideas, and they have appropriately called it the **Side Hustle Idea Database**. It's a list of 100 pretty good ideas. Frankly, I went through them, and they're awesome. It gives you how to start them, how to grow them, and things like that. It provides a little bit of inspiration. So check it out! It's called the **Side Hustle Idea Database**. It's in the description below; you'll see the link. Click it, check it out, and let me know in the comments what you think. So, where are the different opportunities you think lie within that?

Steph Smith

I mean, there are some companies that have sprung up already. One of them is called **Bonafide** or **Bonafide**, and another is called **Genov**. Basically, all of the symptoms—34 of them—that women start to face, like hot flashes, are just an example of where I think, even just fundamentally, there are fewer female entrepreneurs. There are also fewer entrepreneurs over the age of 50 who are starting companies. I think it's a completely overlooked space because once people hit this age, they're not really trying to start a company. Additionally, all the other people aren't really aware of how significant this transformation is for all of these women—literally billions of women around the world. So, I feel like it's just totally overlooked.

Sam Parr

You there? You know, we use this phrase "one chart businesses" because you just see this chart and, like you said, "Well, that thing's obvious. Just get into that industry." You have one here. You say in the United States, the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics predicts that nursing will be the fastest growing occupation between 2022 and 2030, growing in number by 275,000 jobs. That's insane! That's insane! Talk to you about this nursing thing.

Steph Smith

Yeah, well, I mean, again, it's like a pretty clear trend that comes with a bunch of people getting older. Like, everyone's talking about AI, and that's great, but what about the billions of people around the globe that are 65 and older who are just going to need physical human support? So, nursing is one area. Also, the rest of that statistic talks about how in Japan, the number of nursing homes has risen nearly 50% over the last decade. Japan is interesting because it's kind of like this early case study where they've hit this "silver tsunami" a little earlier than a lot of other countries.

Sam Parr

Why has Japan hit this first? All these stats are like Japanese stuff is always referenced when it comes to getting old. Why Japan?

Steph Smith

I think they just hit the declining birth rate earlier than many other countries. Another interesting opportunity, or you could say an interesting thing for individuals to explore, is that because Japan hit the "silver tsunami" a little earlier, they have this unique situation where they're giving away free houses or super cheap houses. Sometimes they're even free. They're called **akiya** (A-K-I-Y-A). I was in Japan this summer, and we did a walking tour. They took us around and showed us these houses. They said, "See this house?" It was in the middle of Osaka and a little rundown for sure, but they were like, "This house is free." We were like, "What do you mean?" This is because there are so many people who have grown old and unfortunately passed away. There are also some social aspects related to the akiya. In some cases—not all—Japanese people really care about status. If, for example, they grew up in a poor neighborhood, their parents passed away, and then they moved into a different social strata, they don't want to claim the house because they don't want to be associated with that neighborhood. There are tons of articles on this. Over 8,000,000 akiya are being given away by the government, or again, sometimes for very cheap.

Sam Parr

Well, have you heard the theory about Osaka and how a lot of people are lying about their age?

Steph Smith

Oh yeah, the blue zones and how...

Sam Parr

Yeah, there's a book called *The Blue Zones*. I read it about 10 years ago, and I thought, "This is my bible for living a long, healthy life." Turns out, this is a hypothesis. I don't know the specifics; I'm kind of regurgitating a headline a little bit. I would have to actually research it to definitively say. The idea is that someone studied Osaka's population and found that too many people claim to have the same birth date in Osaka. The only way this could possibly be true is if many of them committed fraud to say they are of a certain age so they can start receiving social security and other benefits that come when you hit a certain age. This potentially puts a lot of doubt on the idea that we study this particular population for old health. You know, looking at how healthy they are when they might actually be a lot younger than they claim. What are some other stats about those? I love talking to you because you actually have the data and the stats instead of just guessing.

Steph Smith

Okay, so we didn't really drill down as much on the... I mean, you talked about nursing homes and assisted living. Let me give you one more from Numwalk, which by the way is a great newsletter. Walt Hickey runs it, and I feel like MFM listeners would love it. It's great because he talks about these "one chart businesses." I've done a thread on something similar, and I call them "digits," but he calls them just "numbers." So basically, every single day, he sends a newsletter of maybe five or so different small paragraphs. Each paragraph has just one statistic. I like his because some of them are really important, like the "silver tsunami" and how that's going to impact things much greater than ourselves. But then sometimes it's like, "There's this random gerbil that has infested homes in South Carolina" or something like that.

Sam Parr

This is awesome.

Steph Smith

Yeah, he sent this paragraph about assisted living, so let me just read this out. This is directly from Num Lock: > From 2004 to 2021, the median annual price of assisted living increased 31% faster than inflation and has hit $54,000 per year. This is a crazy stat to me. There are 31,000 assisted living facilities in the United States. Four out of every five are run as for-profits, and half of all the operators in the industry are clearing annual returns of 20% or more than it costs to operate. With 850,000 older Americans living within assisted living, the rents are getting jacked up.

Sam Parr

So, I don't actually know how assisted living businesses are valued. Is it considered like a real estate valuation, where it's just a way to finance or pay for real estate? Or is it considered like a proper operating business? I guess, you know, like hotels are classified as real estate. Yeah, you know what I mean? So, I would assume that's the case. If 20% is fantastic and 20% is operating profit on a proper internet business, that's not that great. But if it's real estate, that's really great. However, when I read this, I think, "Yeah, that's lucrative." I don't want to...

Steph Smith

No, I don't either. I don't use it.

Sam Parr

So, this is the worst thing ever. You'd have a funeral a day, you know what I mean?

Steph Smith

Well, I mean, I think people are in this for quite some time. So you could say, again, purely from the business perspective, that you have this recurring revenue for years. You know, before obviously some eventual, very unfortunate form of charge.

Sam Parr

To invest in a nursing home fund, but I would not want to operate a nursing home.

Steph Smith

Well, what I'll say is, I mean, I have parents that are getting older. There's also tons of assisted living options for not just the elderly, but also for people with mental illness or those who need other support, whether mental or physical. What I've seen from exploring this space anecdotally is that most of the options really suck. You don't really feel great about sending your parent or loved one to these places. I haven't explored this deeply enough; this might exist. So if folks are listening and they know of this, I would love to hear about it. But imagine the premium version of assisted living, where you feel really, really good about sending your grandparent, your mom, your sister, or whatever it is to one of these places. Obviously, the price would have to go way up, but people are already spending an average of $54,000 per year. So, for the wealthy, wouldn't you pay five times that to send your loved one to something a lot better?

Sam Parr

Yeah, and I think people do. I know people who have family members in nursing homes, and they spend $20,000 or $30,000 a month. It's insane! It's absolutely insane. Why haven't there been any new startups in this space? For example, I got sick a few years ago and I had an IV in my arm for, I think, 35 days. I used to have a nurse come to my house every 3 or 4 days to change out the IV. Typically, these nurses that did this, I wasn't the norm; it's mostly older people they work with. Finding these nurses was a nightmare, especially through my healthcare provider. Shockingly, a large percentage of the people I encountered—this was when I was in New York during the summertime—were from mom-and-pop businesses. It was actually quite hard to operate with them. They didn't have a web portal that I could interact with; I had to call them all the time to schedule appointments. So, why hasn't there been interesting technology-based startups in this space?

Steph Smith

I mean, I'm sure there are some that exist, but I'll kind of revert back to what I said about even menopause. This is not a sexy space, right? The problems that people face at this stage in their life, most entrepreneurs have not experienced. They are not thinking about what an 80-year-old might need because they've never been 80. So, I think it's a little different. If I'm in Gen Z—I'm not, but if I were—I’d be much more likely to want to create a business for people that I understand. For that reason, I think these industries haven't really been tackled as much. But here's an example of where I think you could merge knowledge from a younger base with assisted living facilities. I don't know if this would work, but there's this idea I also read about in *Outlive* by Peter Attia. He talks about the centenarian decathlon. He discusses how he works with people and tries to get them to basically the fitness level of people two decades younger. Actually, what he tries to do is to get them to the fitness level of the elite top 2% of people two decades younger. He talks about in his book how, when people first hear that, most people think it's impossible. They say, "I can't even get in the top 2% of my age, let alone two decades younger." But he gives all these examples, and the one that I'll cite is: Have you heard of Robert Marchand?

Sam Parr

No, what's that?

Steph Smith

So, he's unfortunately passed away. He passed away at 109, but at 101, he was still cycling. He broke some records at 101 and decided that wasn't enough. He then worked with a bunch of trainers and tried to break his existing record at 103. He hit 27 kilometers an hour on a bike and continued competing until he was 105. If you look him up on YouTube, there are all these videos of him crossing the finish line, and there are reporters trying to film him because he was doing things that he shouldn't be doing at 101, 103, or even 105. He gives several examples, as Peter does in his book, of people who, at 80, 90, or even over 100, like Robert, have not just competed throughout their lives but, in some cases, didn't take care of themselves and then got on a regimen that completely reshaped their fitness. So, you could imagine: what if you could send your loved one—or they opt into this—to a place that isn't just this idea of assisted living, where you go to die? What if you go there for a revival? What if you go there with a VO2 max of 15, and all of a sudden, you leave with it at 25, and you're 80? That is really cool, and it kind of merges some of the trends we're seeing in new-age fitness and longevity with this massive business around assisted living.

Sam Parr

So, when I lived in Austin, I would say Austin is probably the most fit place I've ever been. If you go along the trail on Lady Bird Lake, everyone is jacked and muscular. Women there tend to lift weights more than I've ever seen in different cities. It's pretty wild; everyone's into it. Amongst my friends, being healthy is definitely a lifestyle that we're all bought into. When you're doing this research, is there something where it's just like, in order to do what you're saying, I think it needs to be part of the fabric of society? Right now, it's not. For example, I love watching prison TV shows. It's a confession—I'm Sam Parr, and I like watching TV shows. One of my favorite things to watch are in different European countries, as well as in China and a few other countries in Asia. They make the inmates do an exercise hour where you have to get out of the cell and must do a routine. The idea is that if you care about your body and exercise, you're going to start caring about other things, and hopefully, you'll be a better person. Another example is I've got this friend named Anne. Anne started a company called Solidcore, which is a Pilates business that she sold for $100 million. Her first company was a nonprofit that taught homeless men how to run. The reason she taught homeless men how to run is that if you learn how to get up at 5 AM and care about fitness, you're likely to care about other things, and thus hopefully get clean and sober and get a stable job. Anyway, I'm on board with what you're saying, but I don't think any of this will actually happen, at least in America, not for a while. A lot of people listening to those podcasts are coastal people. They're basically like coastal elites, you know? They live in New York, they live in San Francisco, like you or me, they live in L.A., where they're used to seeing this fit stuff. But if you go to Missouri, where I'm from, or other parts of the Midwest, this whole fitness thing isn't exactly a thing. For example, I had a family member who got diabetes. When he saw the doctor, he was really sick and hospitalized. The doctor said, "Yeah, you have diabetes." The person asked, "Well, what do I do?" and the doctor replied, "Oh, just eat healthy." You know what I mean? It was just like, "I don't know, man, figure it out." And the doctor was fat, right?

Steph Smith

Right, right.

Sam Parr

Yeah, so anyway, my being is like, is this realistic? Can any of this actually happen? Or that if you started some of these businesses, would people actually take to it?

Steph Smith

Yeah, so I think this is actually an opportunity. In the sense that if you think about it, like you said, we're coastal elites. We're also highly competitive. I think the people who listen to this podcast are the same. So what do we gravitate towards? **75 Hard**. You gravitate towards hitting new personal bests on Strava. You go to doctors like Peter Attia, who only sees a few dozen patients a year.

Sam Parr

$250,000

Steph Smith

Exactly, exactly. So, I agree. I actually tweeted this the other day: How much better would a lot of people's lives be if they just moved for 3 miles a day? I know that sounds like a lot to some people. You could even break it down to 1 or 2 miles. But like, we don't need 75 Hard. I have nothing against it, but someone commented that we need 30 minutes of moderate exercise. It takes a little bit of time for people who are really out of shape to get there. However, if you get into even moderate shape, you can run 3 miles in 30 minutes. If you think about it, that's half the length of a yoga class, right? It doesn't take that much of your day. You don't need the hour-plus morning routine; you just need something really, really moderate. And that's obviously, like you said, what James Clear talks about: keystone habits. You do that, and everything else unlocks. So, I think there should be some sort of very average—and I mean average in a good way—program that is not 75 Hard. It should be something way more approachable that the average American can do. And maybe it's not even 3 miles at this point.

Steph Smith

Maybe it's 1, and then the 2nd year you go to 2, and then the 3rd year you go to 3. But I say that because I used to hate running, and there's all these... you said something.

Sam Parr

Do you even exercise?

Steph Smith

I'm probably going to hit around **500 miles** this year in running, and then soccer, spin, etc. But it took me... here's the real takeaway for the average person who hates running: it took me probably **a year and a half** to like running, which was way longer than I thought. People talk about the "runner's high" and how if you just do it enough, it'll kick in. It took me a year and a half of pretty consistent running for some switch to flip where all of a sudden it was enjoyable.

Sam Parr

Tell me some... Let's keep just rattling off some of these interesting stats. It's okay if it's not related to longevity.

Steph Smith

Well, let's talk about one thing real quick on the longevity side. I think one of the reasons that I got into running was because I had started using Strava and I had data. So, another example of people getting data: you used a CGM before, right? A continuous glucose monitor.

Sam Parr

Of levels, I used one of those for a long time. I've also done a lot of telomere length measurements. I think it's telomere, anyway, like measuring those cells. I do a lot of blood work. I actually do a ton of blood work, probably quarterly. I track my weight every day for the last 3 or 4 years. I've tracked almost everything I've eaten. I use my Body Tutor, which is like a nutritional service, but I also track all of my food on MyFitnessPal. So, yeah, I track a lot of stuff.

Steph Smith

You do a lot more than the average human, but CGMs and...

Sam Parr

Critic, by the way, what I just said sounds like a lot. It adds up to roughly 10 minutes a week. Wow, it's not that hard.

Steph Smith

Well, let me just quickly share this one thing on the CGMs, which is Dexcom. This is one of the companies that manufactures them. I think they have like 40% market share or something in that range. Their new product, Stello, is the first over-the-counter FDA-approved CGM. This was just as of last month, at the end of August. To me, this is really interesting because I think before, I can't... I don't know exactly how you got one. I think you needed a prescription, but you could get that if you were overweight or had diabetes. Most people didn't seek it out. I've been testing one for the last two weeks, and I love it! I'm obviously not affiliated at all.

Sam Parr

And by the way, **CGM** stands for **Continuous Glucose Monitor**, which basically you put this little, like, quarter-sized device...

Steph Smith

Got it. Mine's a little dirty from my sweater, but...

Sam Parr

Yeah, you basically inject that into your arm, and it measures your blood glucose levels. You can just put your app to it at any given time, and it'll tell you what your blood glucose monitor is or what your blood glucose levels are.

Steph Smith

Yeah, exactly. So, each one lasts around 2 weeks. I think a lot of people just do it for 2 to 4 weeks, and they get a lot of data around, you know, like what's your resting or fasting glucose level.

Sam Parr

And it basically does the same thing that DXA does. A lot of people will say, "Oh, I'm 15% body fat," and then they go do a DXA and they're really like 22%. It's a very harsh thing. DXA is very, very harsh, and CGMs (Continuous Glucose Monitors) are very harsh too. You'll think, "Oh, I'm going to eat healthy. I'm going to eat a salad." Then you eat just a little bit of cranberries in your salad or a little bit of dressing, like some type of sugary dressing, and your blood glucose spikes. Or you're like, "I'm just going to eat steak and a potato," or something that you view as a whole food, and your blood glucose monitor starts going off like an alarm. It's shocking how some of the stuff peaks your blood glucose.

Steph Smith

Yeah, the reason I love it is because of what you're saying. So, we are a family at home with an 8 Sleep. I've got an Apple Watch, and my husband has bought like four Oura rings. We are similar to you in that regard.

Sam Parr

He put all his Oura rings.

Steph Smith

Oura rings... they get a new version. He's like, "I need the new version." I don't know, but we've used a lot of this technology. My problem with some of it is that it is so broad. You're like, "Okay, I slept bad last night. How do I fix it?" I think the most major thing people talk about is alcohol. But, you know, on a more granular level, what changes should I make? Like you said, it's so reactive where you can see exactly what spikes you. Sometimes it's not very reassuring where you're like, "Okay, I can't hide," basically is the idea. I've really been enjoying it, and I think the fact that it is now over the counter... I think there's a company already kind of doing this.

Sam Parr

But by the way, I did invest in Levels, so I will promote it. You can go to their website right now at levels.com and get one of these things. That is my plug, and I'm letting people know. So we both have a stake here, just to let everyone know. But go ahead.

Steph Smith

Well, I was going to say, so Dexcom, the company that sells these Stellars, and they have a few other more expensive CGMs, has an API. I don't think it's fully open, but I think you can apply to use it. It's a very simple idea. I hate to even use this as a comparison, but I think there should be a Strava for CGMs. Now that more people are using it, even during just that trial of a month of learning, I think being able to socialize what you're learning, but also compete in a way, is important. That's what Strava is about; you're congratulating each other, but you're also seeing other people's progress. In the equivalent version with the CGM, you can see things like: Are you spending your day in range? How big are your spikes? What's your dawn effect, which is basically your rising glucose after you wake up? I think there's going to be some sort of socialization of this. I don't know exactly what it looks like, and maybe just one example of where you can already see this before Stella existed is, have you heard of the Glucose Goddess?

Sam Parr

No, what is this?

Steph Smith

It's just this woman. She's got 5,000,000 followers on Instagram and 1,000,000 on YouTube. She has a recipe club where she charges $5 a month. Recently, she released a product called "Anti Spike."

Sam Parr

Dude, her website is awesome! I love this woman. Is that her in the main photo? She looks like she's from the 1970s. This woman is...

Steph Smith

Got like a cool haircut? Yeah, I know.

Sam Parr

She's like, "Cool to look at. This lady is cool." Alright, so go ahead, who is this lady?

Steph Smith

She calls herself the "Glucose Goddess," and she is basically an educator on glucose. I think, or rather, specifically how your body reacts to it.

Sam Parr

Is this a big business?

Steph Smith

Well, so again, she's got... she just released Antispike, which is our first product. I have no idea if it's good or not. I think she said it's four ingredients: it's like cinnamon, mulberry leaves, and two other things. That website, which is separate from her main one, is already doing over 100,000 views a month. So, I don't know what her sales are, but she's definitely getting traffic there. I think, you know, that's just one example where people are really engaged in this channel.

Sam Parr

What's the benefit of keeping my blood glucose from spiking? Why is it good for me?

Steph Smith

When your blood glucose is high, it's basically doing damage to your organs. I think, like, the granules impact your artery walls. They also, over time, if you have too much blood glucose, when your body is secreting insulin to bring it down, your insulin resistance goes up. Basically, a lot of people are aware of type 2 diabetes; that is one way that your body breaks down with high glucose. But again, just having an elevated glucose level over time impacts your cells specifically and how they operate. So, there are a few things that you want to pay attention to. It's like how high the spike is, but also, I think the more important part is the area under the curve of your spikes. So, how long does it take for you to bring your glucose down? I've started to do this for two weeks, and similar to you, it's like an endless stream of questions around: how high is too high? What does it mean if I have a double hump? What does it mean if my glucose is higher the next day? I think there's a community aspect, and if we think about the marketing side of this, I think there's probably some genius business idea where you actually use something like Astellas as a loss leader. It's around $50 for one for two weeks. You could imagine a business where you'd have to get this really right, but you give them the Astellas for free. You make sure they have to use it for two weeks and jot down what they're eating and their lifestyle. At the end of that two weeks, think of all the information you have about that person's metabolic health, the way they eat, and the way they exercise. There are so many different businesses that could emerge from this. You mentioned some of them, like having a health concierge that they sign up for after that. You could have someone who educates them on their nutrition and exercise. Maybe they get a personal trainer, or you have some sort of referral with specific gyms in their area. Maybe you have a deal with Dexcom directly for their next CGM because they're probably going to want to keep going. I think there's something genius in that loss leader idea, given the price.

Steph Smith

Of it being around **$50** for **2 weeks**.

Sam Parr

You know what one of my friends did? I think you know him, Justin Marr. He did it during COVID. I believe it was called **wearablechallenge.com**. The way it worked was I Venmoed him $900. Mhmm. I would have to send him proof. So basically, I sent him $900. The goal of the challenge was to keep my blood glucose level below... I forget the metric, but something like 115. Does that make sense?

Steph Smith

That roughly makes sense. The range is like 80 to 140, which is considered healthy. However, a lot of health geeks are like, "That's way too broad."

Sam Parr

And they say like 120, so whatever the threshold is, like 115 or 120, I forget. Anyway, it was like 120. I had to send him proof that day that I did not go above 120. Every day that I sent him proof, I got $30 back. By the end of the challenge, if I had a 100% success rate, I got my whole $900 back. If I did it well or if I screwed up—which I actually did about 4 times—I think it was like 4 times on accident. There was this particular fruit I thought I could have a little bit of, and I ended up spiking. Another time, it was like a raspberry-flavored dressing or something that totally made me spike. It was pretty brilliant, and I think Justin said that it was fairly successful. I don't know why he shut it down. So anyway, that was like a cool business built on the back of that. One last thing I wanted to ask you about: what was all this posture stuff that you had? By the way, I think it's crazy that you're suddenly into all this health stuff because that's not the person I knew. When I first started working with you, you were naturally a very thin person. I think when you're naturally thin, you don't really care about health because you're like, "I'm skinny, therefore I'm healthy." Now, I think it's cool that you're into all this stuff.

Steph Smith

Well, that's exactly right. I think there's this misconception that if you're skinny, you're healthy. As I've gone down this rabbit hole, I realized, "Oh, I was not healthy." I think actually one of the things that triggered me was two years ago when I did Q Bio. You guys have talked about that before; it's like one of the full-body health scans. My cholesterol was high, and I was like, "Why is my cholesterol high?" At first, I thought, "Oh, it must be genetics, right? I must have a history of this." Then I found out neither of my parents have high cholesterol. My dad is not very healthy at all, and I was like, "How do I have higher cholesterol than my father?" So, that was the impetus. But I think generally, that's why I encourage people to do their own research. I'm not affiliated or whatever, but doing something like a CGM, like you said, is essential. You just cannot hide from getting your blood work. You get the data, and no matter how skinny you are, you see the results. By the way, I wasn't surprised in a way because I wasn't exercising properly, and I wasn't eating as well as I could. On the posture side, it's just another one of these spin-offs of health. I spend way too much time online; I think a lot of people do too. So, I've got a bad case—hopefully improving—of nerd neck. Some people call it forward head posture, but basically, it's just because we're hunched over at a computer all day long. I haven't done a ton here; I'm kind of at the very early part of this curve. But I have played around with... I'm not using it right now. Hold up, there's this thing—I don't know if I'd vouch for it or not yet—but this thing called Better Back.

Sam Parr

I'm looking at it.

Steph Smith

I think.

Sam Parr

Anytime that you have to use one of these devices, I tend to get nervous that it's legit. But go ahead, what is it?

Steph Smith

Well, that's why I don't. So, it has helped me sit up more. It basically runs around your knees and your back. I like it better than other things. There are devices you can put on your back that zap you and stuff, and I feel like that's really unnatural. But this actually works because it's fixated around your knees. You just sit up straighter the whole time you're sitting. So, there are things like that.

Sam Parr

For those listening, it's basically like a strap that, when you're sitting down, wraps around your back and then attaches to your knees. In doing that, it kind of forces you to sit up.

Steph Smith

Yeah, exactly. Understood. For the women, for your four female listeners, there is a sports bra that I haven't tried yet called **Form**, which apparently folks like Taylor Swift have used. If you look at her posture a decade ago, it was way, way worse. So, there's a small part of me that believes that something like that works.

Sam Parr

There's use this, you.

Steph Smith

I can.

Sam Parr

Like you're telling me, just like this shirt. For me, it would be a shirt that's going to make me have better posture.

Steph Smith

What is this thing? I haven't tried it, but it's a sports bra that people vouch helps your posture. However, I think generally, as I've explored this a little bit, it is a function of your muscles. If you have strength in your abdomen and your back, you're going to sit up straighter. There's a video I shared; we can include all this in the show notes. This is actually just like an email I sent, or I'm going to send to the Internet Pipes crew this month. But, like, it's a video from Brian Johnson about his posture. He worked with a posture coach for several months. Then, Tim Ferriss has recommended something called the Ego Skew method, which I have not tried.

Sam Parr

And what's this Brian Johnson video? How do I just make my posture better?

Steph Smith

There are three different exercises that he does every single day, and he shares them in this video that improved his posture.

Sam Parr

And what's this "ego" ... "ego-esque"?

Steph Smith

It's a method that I think you need to work with a practitioner for, which is why, again, I'm not vouching for this in any way. But it's just something that came up.

Sam Parr

Dude, there's this great TED Talk that you should watch: "Why Sitting Down Destroys You." I think it's by Roger Frampton; I believe that's the one. It's a TED Talk that has millions of views. He basically goes through this idea of how he worked in the Amazon with some indigenous tribe where they didn't use a lot of chairs or something like that. What he found was that, in today's age, we don't really do this, but we used to. If you stand a lot, you squeeze your glutes. Imagine you have a little penny in your butt cheeks that you're trying to keep from falling to the ground. That's basically what you do; you squeeze your butt together when you're standing. There's a reason why our glutes typically tend to be our largest muscle: it's because we were supposed to use them a lot. However, we don't really use them too much anymore. Instead, when we stand, we kind of lean forward. He was like, "No, you should actually, when you stand, squeeze your butt together and flex your abs," as opposed to just falling forward. If you work on it, you can actually hold that position for a fairly long time when you're standing. That's the proper way to stand. So, it's not just sitting that will destroy you, but standing incorrectly, you know what I mean?

Steph Smith

Yeah, totally. Well, even in the video I watched with Brian Johnson, he was talking about how most people, when they think they want good posture, they tilt their head back. That's bad as well. They're kind of like, "Oh, I have good posture like this." You really want to be more like... the back of your neck should be absolutely straight. So, yeah.

Sam Parr

Dude, Steph, are there any more of these stats or storylines that we should dive into?

Steph Smith

Let's do this idea of barbell sports, just because we're doing this whole fitness longevity stuff. Alright, so all I want to do is share kind of a frame with folks. You've had a bunch of the, you know, you'd call tier 1 sports that everyone knows: soccer, basketball, baseball. These have existed for a long time and are in every school. But now you're seeing all of these more niche sports pop up. Pickleball is the most famous example, but there's also sports like tech ball. Have you heard of tech ball?

Sam Parr

What is tech ball?

Steph Smith

**Teqball** is a sport that I don't know how to explain the best. I think the best version is that it's a mix of soccer and ping pong. Imagine a big ping pong table, and then you're using your body with a large ball to basically lob the ball over the net. There are crazy videos on YouTube of this sport. I think Teqball itself has 4,000,000 followers on Facebook, and some of their videos on YouTube have millions of views. It really is just like freak-of-nature kind of stuff that people are doing, almost like flips to get the ball. The reason I mention it is because, again, this frame is what did pickleball do? Pickleball basically took tennis or something like it and made it more accessible. They changed how bouncy the ball was, the size of the court, and the way that the paddle feels so that just about anyone could play. Tennis is pretty hard to do well, and there's a version of people who want to do it, but pickleball opened the aperture so more people could participate. So I think if you take an existing sport and make it less agile so more people can participate, that's one direction. Then Teqball is the opposite. In fashion, you have fast fashion and then you have the premium brands, and basically nothing in the middle succeeds. I think it's an interesting parallel where Teqball is actually made way harder, so that some people who just want to prove that they're extremely agile and that they're competitors and winners gravitate to the sport. They just want to be the best, and that's a much more shareable sport because you're clipping this thing up and basically showing, "Look at this freak of nature!"

Sam Parr

What's padel? All my friends keep talking about this thing called padel, and I'm like, is it paddle or padel?

Steph Smith

I always thought it was "padell" before hearing people play.

Sam Parr

Here's what it reminds me of: one time I went to a conference in Europe. There was this white Michigan lady who had been living in Germany for about two years. She was this influencer, and she was talking about how she had this brand deal with Adidas. She's talking to me, and I'm like, "Dude, we're both from the Midwest. What the hell is Adidas?" She's like, "Adidas? You don't know Adidas? The shoe brand?" And I'm like, "Do you mean Adidas?" She's like, "No, I mean Adidas." So it's called Adidas. I was like, "Dude, you asshole, just call it Adidas. I don't know what that means." I always thought that "padel" was someone like this fancy guy talking to me about padel. I'm like, "Are you trying to say the word paddle? Is that really what you mean? What the hell does padel mean?" And I think it's actually called padel. Well, it's true, it's true, it's true.

Steph Smith

It's true. It's true.

Sam Parr

I don't know what it's called.

Steph Smith

Like all the best players are in Spain, and I think... I don't know if this is one of those cases where, you know, how countries will have their own name and then other countries will just be like, "Actually, we're not gonna call you Sverre, which is what you call yourself. We're just gonna call you Sweden." And we're just like, imagine if I did that to you, Sam. I'm like, "I know you think you're Sam, but I'm just gonna call you Scott."

Sam Parr

Yeah, I feel that.

Steph Smith

It's weird. I don't know if padel is correct or if it's just the Americanized version of "battle," but I played it while I was in New York. It's also kind of like tennis, but there's a wall behind you, and the wall is in play.

Sam Parr

And it's blowing up.

Steph Smith

It's totally blowing up. I think that's another example of the latter, where you take something and you actually make it harder. So that's just a frame. And like maybe one other example of where you make something... again, you're attracting these "go hard" people. Is Eversting... have you heard of Eversting?

Sam Parr

Yeah, so one of the guys who started this company, Mark, is in Hampton, and I've gotten to know him. Go ahead, what's it called? Or explain what it is.

Steph Smith

It's basically just for the people who want to climb Everest but can't make it there. It's a competition where people run up and down any hill as many times as possible, which equates to what it would be to climb Everest. This is an interesting frame because it's actually about what you can do with no equipment, right? Like running, you can do that anywhere. But running is boring for a lot of people, just pure play running. So this is an example where you can do it anywhere if you've got a hill.

Sam Parr

I am going to do one of those this year. It's called 29029.com. I'm doing one this year. Do you want to do it with me?

Steph Smith

When is it?

Sam Parr

He's sending me the list of events. He's let me pick one and attend one for free, which is a big deal. I think it's like $5, but they...

Steph Smith

Talk about a business.

Sam Parr

It's expensive. It's really expensive because they give you a glamping tent setup. It's kind of like a high-end camping experience. I could get the price wrong; I think it's around $1,000. I thought it was $5,000, but I could have gotten it wrong. He's sending me the schedule, and they have them in places like Maine and Utah. It looks pretty awesome.

Steph Smith

I'm down.

Sam Parr

I don't think I... I honestly don't think I'll be able to complete it. So, he told me when he was creating it, he said that the rules are to... or you said that with a lot of these sports, you want it to be hard. He said, "We made it hard enough that only 25% of the participants will be able to finish."

Steph Smith

Okay.

Sam Parr

It just sounds really hard.

Steph Smith

Yeah, maybe I'm not down. I feel like I really care. So even in setting my goal for the half marathon, I'm one of those people where I'm like, "I probably should set a more ambitious goal," but I really want to hit my goal. I'm going to feel pretty ambitious. The goal is not even that. That's what I mean. It's a 9-minute mile for the half.

Sam Parr

I think that's good. I don't know who cares though, really.

Steph Smith

I mean, I'm 5'3", so I'm a 5'3" female. So what does that have to...

Sam Parr

Do with anything.

Steph Smith

Well, I mean, I think it's just like, you know, it's my first half. I'm like, you're...

Sam Parr

Better if you're shorter, by the way.

Steph Smith

Are you... is that true?

Sam Parr

Yeah, so a lot of people... I looked into this because I was always curious. I believe stride length and height are not necessarily correlated. Oh, so the length of your legs is not entirely... No, you'll have to look this up to verify that I'm right, but the length of your legs is not necessarily correlated with the strength or the length of your stride. It's how much force you're exerting against the ground. So, you can have similar height or different height people who have very similar stride lengths depending on how much force they put against the ground. Does that make sense?

Steph Smith

It does, but I had no idea. I was... look at me! I was this whole time, I was like...

Sam Parr

I'm sorry, but that sounds like a bullshit excuse.

Steph Smith

Yeah, I know.

Sam Parr

No, and in fact, if you look at some of the fastest marathoners in the world, or even like the 5K and 10K, a lot of them, particularly these Ethiopian women, are quite short. I would argue, I bet you if you looked up who won the 5K, 10K, and marathon this year in the Olympics, I bet you the top 10 finishers of each, on average, were 5'3" in height. So that's a bullshit excuse. Okay, okay.

Steph Smith

I'm all guessing that excuse, but even if it's not true, I'm...

Sam Parr

Like, here's the other thing that I was going to ask you. When we're talking about living forever, I think a lot of people who live to be old are smaller. If you look, there aren't a lot of old giants. That's true. What always freaks me out is I'm 6'2" and about 205 pounds, so I think I may be in the 90th percentile of height. I get nervous that there aren't a lot of examples of tall people who live a long time.

Steph Smith

Yeah, but I think like... so probably the references you're thinking of are people who are 100+. I think it's probably pretty common for people to live into their nineties.

Sam Parr

Yeah, but Seth, I'm trying to get to that 120 to 130 range. Come on!

Steph Smith

What's the oldest human who has lived?

Sam Parr

Probably 120 something.

Steph Smith

So, yeah, 122. You're aiming for the oldest human to have ever lived.

Sam Parr

I don't think that's going to be crazy uncommon for our generation to have a hand in this. You have this stat in there. You say that you are more likely to be a billionaire—of which there are something like 3,000—than you are to be someone who lives to be 110 or above, of which there's like 800 or 1,000 or something like that.

Steph Smith

That exactly.

Sam Parr

But I think that's going to be way more common. We've had a lot of really smart people on this podcast, and they just tell these stories where I'm not smart enough to understand the data. I talk to smart people, and they say things like they don't think it's going to be particularly uncommon to have an IQ of 110, 115, or 120 in the next 50 or so years.

Steph Smith

There's actually, like, yeah, in the book, they kind of break down the calculus around if you make it to 100. There's a certain percentage chance that you make it to 110 versus 120, etc. We don't know about 130 because people haven't really made it there. But if you just do the same math around, like, okay, instead of having 1,000 people make it to 100, if we then have 100,000 people make it to 100 or a million people make it to 100, then you just take those same percentages and you're like, "Oh, actually, yeah, then we're for sure gonna have, like, let's say instead of 1 person making it to 120, you have, let's say, 50." Right? And in that case, it's like, well, then we're gonna get some data on it, likely. You know, not all of them are just gonna drop at, what is it, 122? Some of them are gonna make it.

Sam Parr

Dude, all of this bums me out because it makes you realize how short life is. Like, 100 years is not a long time. It's not a long time. At 30 years old, you know, you're a good chunk of the way through your life already, even though I still feel like a child. Yeah, it's just... life is... I think I felt this particularly when I had a baby because I saw how fast she grew. We're at the stage now where every two weeks there's a different brain. Just the other day, she woke up and now she knows how to high five. These little small things, like, "Oh wow, now she knows how to mimic." She really can mimic! Then I'll look at photos of her just three months ago, and I'm like, "She didn't even have really any hair," or the idea of mimicking wasn't even part of the equation. You go through this thing of having a kid, and you're like, "That's nothing." It's just like this... it's going so fast. A hundred years is nothing. Or I do the math, and I'm like, at the age of 40, when she's 40, I'm going to be 75. Which means if I continue having kids for the next six years, I'm going to be in my eighties when they're in their thirties and forties. That just seems insane to me. That seems insane, right?

Steph Smith

By the way, have you seen the smile curve around happiness? No? It's interesting how older people generally tend to be happy. People tend to be happy early in life, and then in their mid-years, there's this dip. They call it the smile curve because, generally, happiness decreases a little during that time. However, that curve goes up and up as people get older, which is really interesting. I don't know exactly what to take away from that other than, well...

Sam Parr

The takeaway is that you spend your thirties and forties giving a shit about what other people think. You climb the ladder and want to flex on others. Then, when you're 10 or 15, you care about that a little bit less. At the age of 30 or 40, you sacrifice your values in order to appease other people and to climb up this ladder. Finally, at the age of 50, 60, or 70, you have grandkids and you realize none of that fucking matters. That's my assumption, yeah.

Steph Smith

Yeah, I mean, people can interpret a lot from that. But I agree, I think there's something around like you learn a lot about what to care about and what not to care about, and then you're happy.

Sam Parr

Thank you very much, Steph Smith, for doing the pilot. We appreciate you.

Steph Smith

Thank you. By the way, can I say something really quick? Just a shout out to the listeners. Last time I was on, we talked about the product that I had launched a year ago: Internet Pipes. For like 30 seconds at the end of an hour-long podcast... how much?

Sam Parr

Revenue, did you make off that?

Steph Smith

I'm pretty sure it's hard to tie directly, but for sure, six figures, which is crazy. So I just want to shout out to the folks and all the people who listen, who are in internet pipes and all that.

Sam Parr

InternetPipes.com. It's like, it kind of started as a book, but now it's a community, right?

Steph Smith

It's a community. We run events that are kind of weird and quirky, like weird fruit tastings. We did an electric shuffleboard documentary screening. So it's cool, we can do a code if...

Sam Parr

Do people pay for the events?

Steph Smith

No, no, no, no. So it's a one-time thing, and then you're in the community. You get access to the events. We do monthly emails. So again, the one I'm sending is on longevity. Last month, it was on the island.

Sam Parr

Took our idea from trends, and you did it on your own.

Steph Smith

You said it, I didn't say it. But actually, the concept around "internet pipes" was meant to be a little different. In the sense of trends, it was like, "Here are the trends." "Internet pipes" is meant to be, "Here are the tools so that you can surface your own trends as well." Like, you know, behind the scenes, how the sandwich...

Sam Parr

Is made! This is awesome. You owe me a dinner then.

Steph Smith

Oh, totally.

Sam Parr

That's a fair trade.

Steph Smith

More than a dinner, and we can set up in that take.

Sam Parr

I'll accept a dinner that's a fair trade.

Steph Smith

And if future people want to join, they can sign up. We can set up a code. Why don't we just do "SAM"?

Sam Parr

I'm on your website right now. "Sam" is a good code. It looks like it hasn't been used. Alright, internetpipes.com. Use the code "SAM" and "STEPH." We're giving you all these plugs, man!

Steph Smith

Thank you! Congratulations! You guys are the best.

Sam Parr

Alright, I'll talk to you a little bit.

Steph Smith

Alright, see you.