She Built A $40M/Year DTC Brand Off Of Instagram (#452)

Hair Loss, Influencers, and Building Divi - May 8, 2023 (almost 2 years ago) • 01:02:04

This My First Million podcast episode features Dani Austin, a prominent influencer, and her husband, Jordan Ramirez, discussing their entrepreneurial journey. They detail the evolution of Dani's online presence, from her early YouTube days to building a multi-million dollar haircare brand, Divi. The couple shares valuable insights into content creation, influencer marketing, and building a successful business.

Dani's Early Influencer Days: Dani started creating YouTube videos in college, quickly gaining a following and signing with a manager. She leveraged collaborations and YouTube Space resources to hone her skills and grow her audience. Realizing her potential, she transitioned to managing her own brand and building an in-house team.
The Birth of Divi: After experiencing hair loss due to stress and hair extensions, Dani began creating her own scalp serums. Sharing her DIY recipes online led to audience demand, and Divi was born. The brand's focus on clean ingredients and authentic before-and-after photos fueled its rapid growth, exceeding expectations within two years.
Building a Relatable Brand: Dani and Jordan emphasize the importance of authenticity and relatability in content creation. They discuss the power of sharing mistakes, showcasing vulnerability, and creating memorable characters within their content. This approach fosters genuine connections with their audience and sets them apart from the curated perfection often seen online.
The Evolution of Influencer Marketing: The couple traces the shift in influencer marketing from individual brand deals to a broader approach incorporating affiliate marketing and user-generated content (UGC). They highlight their strategy of securing exclusive deals and prioritizing their audience's needs. They also discuss the challenges of maintaining authenticity as influencer marketing evolves.
Divi's Future and Challenges: Dani and Jordan outline Divi's future plans, including expanding into retail, international markets, and developing new products. They address the challenges of scaling a business while staying true to their brand's mission and values. They also discuss navigating the complexities of product development and manufacturing.
The Power of the Husband-Wife Dynamic: Jordan highlights the strength of the husband-wife dynamic in content creation, emphasizing the relatable and authentic nature of their partnership. They also discuss the challenges of balancing their personal and professional lives while creating content together.

Transcript:

Start Time	Speaker	Text
00:00	Jordan Ramirez	Yeah I mean like our first like full year I think you already shared it
00:03	Dani Austin	it well
00:03	Jordan Ramirez	You said 20 is 40, but yeah, we did about $40,000,000. This year, we're on track to do 30% to 35% growth.
00:13	Shaan Puri	yeah
00:14	Jordan Ramirez	it's it's crazy
00:23	Shaan Puri	so we are here in the where we are bud shed yeah the shed
00:28	Dani Austin	the shed
00:28	Shaan Puri	Like this studio, I'm looking at the video and it looks legit. Yeah, people don't know what this looks like from the outside. This is definitely like a sketchy place. I've seen a Netflix documentary about a shed like this.
00:39	Jordan Ramirez	well you got here 5 minutes later than we did it was it was like a 100 degrees in
00:42	Shaan Puri	here before I got here
00:44	Jordan Ramirez	I was like this is
00:45	Dani Austin	gonna be
00:46	Shaan Puri	A sweaty podcast, and this is... you guys are different than, let's say, our normal guests, which are almost always like, I don't know, business, like tech, software type of entrepreneurs. Y'all are entrepreneurs in a different way. See, you're Instagram famous, so that's cool. That's amazing! You tagged me in a story yesterday, and I gotta say, my wife has never looked at me that way before.
01:08	Dani Austin	was like
01:08	Shaan Puri	She was like, "Oh," because she's never listened to one episode of this podcast. Not one! We've done maybe 400 episodes. She's not a podcast person in general; like, she'll listen to anyone's podcast. Yeah, but you would think maybe she'll listen to ours. But we got a little kid watching too, so there's not a lot of time to do things like that.
01:24	Dani Austin	yeah I get it
01:25	Shaan Puri	But I think she'll listen to this one, so I'm excited because she's a fan of yours. We hung out at dinner last night and got to know each other a little bit. I'm excited! Maybe you guys can give me like a 60-second intro of who you are and why. Introduce yourselves to the audience.
01:40	Dani Austin	Sure, I'll go first. Yeah, so my name is Danny Austin and I started creating content online about 10 years ago. I was actually living in Austin and I was at the University of Texas as a sophomore, just making videos on YouTube in my dorm room. You know, it kind of just grew from there really fast. Then I got on Instagram and all the other platforms. We now run Divvy, which is a scalp care and hair care product brand, and we do that together. We have a lot of fun doing that, honestly. Online, we just share anything about our lives, from having two kids under two to, you know, fast or affordable fashion.
02:22	Jordan Ramirez	Yeah, we've kind of been doing that together for, you know, five years. She's been online for ten years. We met, but we didn't work together until we got married. I was in the Austin tech scene before we got married. Then, you know, I was telling you last night, this just became a lifestyle and it was all-consuming. She would be in Turks and Caicos, and I would be in a boardroom, and I'd be like, "Oh my gosh, what am I doing with my life?" So around 2018, we took the leap to work together. We jumped into kind of like the influencer space, which it didn't have a name before that, right? It was just like we created content. Then I think the media started covering it a lot more, and they labeled me an "Instagram husband" and then they labeled our industry.
03:03	Dani Austin	you know the
03:03	Shaan Puri	how do you feel about that label
03:05	Jordan Ramirez	you know it's fine like I'm I'm glad that I did it
03:08	Dani Austin	wait that's so not true at first you made it
03:10	Jordan Ramirez	yeah it's
03:10	Dani Austin	true it was it was it was
03:12	Jordan Ramirez	it was
03:12	Shaan Puri	it was
03:12	Dani Austin	party they'd be like what do you do and he's like you never knew
03:16	Jordan Ramirez	Well, when you're coming out of college, so much of your identity is wrapped up in your title. Especially being here in Austin, Texas, in the tech scene, it was like, "Oh, what startup are you part of? Do y'all have funding? What's your title? What employee number were you?" I was still kind of caught up in that mindset. Then, you know, we jumped in together. I remember the first article that came out was by a writer named Taylor Lorenz, and she wrote an article about "What is the Instagram history?"
03:39	Shaan Puri	with taylor lorenz too yeah
03:40	Jordan Ramirez	Really? Yeah, dude, it's crazy. A lot of people have a history with her now. So, she wrote that article and quoted me in it. I was labeled the "Instagram husband." We did the influencer industry for 5 years together and honestly created content together. Then COVID hit, and brands started really investing in that space.
04:00	Shaan Puri	we should also say how this came about yeah you listen to the pod yes
04:05	Dani Austin	and he he's a huge fan
04:06	Jordan Ramirez	I'm a huge
04:07	Dani Austin	fan huge fan
04:08	Shaan Puri	And so, I didn't know who you were at that time, but I did an episode where I was talking about creator businesses.
04:16	Jordan Ramirez	yes
04:16	Shaan Puri	So, content creators who have now spun off businesses that are doing really well that are not called MrBeast... It's like, okay, everybody knows MrBeast, yeah? So who are the... Oh, what are the other cool examples? We did like maybe 5, 6, 7 examples, and then Danny with Divvy was one of them. And so I guess you heard that.
04:35	Jordan Ramirez	Yeah, well, a couple of nights before, I think I saw a tweet that you were doing. You were like, "We're doing a persona creator-led business." I think I told you, and you told me, I rolled over.
04:42	Dani Austin	that'd be so cool they mentioned divvy one day
04:45	Jordan Ramirez	You guys on Twitter... I was like, "Oh man, that'd be cool if they recognize Divvy." But we're in a niche that is totally not your niche, you know? You had no idea who Danny was. Last night, Danny was watching the first couple episodes of y'all's podcast, and I was like, "No!"
04:59	Shaan Puri	this is sean it was cool
05:00	Jordan Ramirez	And yeah, I was on a plane a couple of days later listening to that episode. Then it was like, "Oh, have you ever heard of Danny Austin?" You asked that to Sam, and Sam was like, "No." That was funny. Then it was like, "Yeah, you talked about Divvy, and I really appreciate that." So I sent a DM and I was like, "Hey man, I would love to come and share."
05:17	Shaan Puri	a story
05:18	Jordan Ramirez	it's very different than most of the businesses y'all cover
05:20	Shaan Puri	But, let's play a little game. We went to dinner last night at a Chinese restaurant. We ordered food. Let's see how well you know your husband. I don't know if he told you this.
05:29	Dani Austin	ate alligator yeah oh he brought him a horse
05:32	Shaan Puri	chicken the busy order thing
05:33	Dani Austin	wait he ordered alligator
05:36	Jordan Ramirez	I did order it, and it was just kind of like a spur of the moment thing. There were a couple of things that were funny about this.
05:41	Shaan Puri	you were trying to impress us
05:42	Jordan Ramirez	No, I was not trying to impress you. This is funny though. So, Matthew booked the dinner, and it was at a restaurant where Sam Ehlinger used to play football at UT Austin. That's one of Matthew's really good friends. Matthew works for Danny and me. I said, "Hey, find a cool restaurant in Austin that we can talk to these people." He booked this upstairs room. There's a chandelier and a table for 16.
06:03	Shaan Puri	there's 5 of us
06:04	Jordan Ramirez	Five of us walked in, and I said, "Matthew, this is such a power move." Then, on top of that, you know, we were all talking, and I didn't know what to order. He suggested, "You should try the alligator." I was like, "Okay, I'll take the alligator." And they were like...
06:15	Dani Austin	And then he brought it home and woke me up. He was like, "You gotta try this alligator." I was like, "I'll not touch it, I'm sorry."
06:20	Jordan Ramirez	it really tastes like chicken you should try it
06:23	Shaan Puri	okay so you didn't try the alligator yeah that was a crazy move I gotta gotta
06:27	Jordan Ramirez	give you credit
06:27	Shaan Puri	I will never enjoy it I'll never forget it so yeah I guess that's maybe a lesson to be learned
06:31	Dani Austin	yeah if you
06:32	Shaan Puri	go to dinner with somebody for the first time order the weirdest thing on the menu they
06:35	Dani Austin	never forget it
06:36	Shaan Puri	Forget it, that's awesome! So, you guys started doing this back in 2012, right? You were in college at the time. What was it like? Because, you know, Instagram had been out, and YouTube had been out for maybe 5 years by that time.
06:51	Dani Austin	Mhmm
06:51	Shaan Puri	But it sounds like when you're talking about it, it was very early days back then. What was working back then? Would you have had a tiny following? How did it... what were these early years like?
07:02	Dani Austin	So, the backstory is my brother, Landon Austin, he's actually a musician and he started on YouTube. He just started posting covers of different songs. He had one video blow up because people thought that he was John Mayer.
07:14	Shaan Puri	that's a yeah
07:15	Dani Austin	It was actually covering Tay Zonday's "Chocolate Rain" song. Anyway, that popped off, so my brother started to kind of acquire this audience. He told me about the space, but I thought it was so weird. I'd walk by his bedroom and he'd be talking to all of his imaginary friends. I was like, "Come on, Landon, you gotta make some real friends." But he ended up putting me in a sibling tag because tags were really popular on YouTube back then, you know, like the Chubby Bunny Challenge or whatever. So he put me in a video, and in all the comments, it was like, "Your sister should start a channel," or "She should share how she did her makeup," or "Where'd she get her top?" So my brother actually made my channel for me, and I didn't touch it. We went home over winter break and we were so bored because all of our friends were in Austin now and everyone was in college. I was just like, "You know what? Let's give this thing a shot." So my brother filmed and edited my first video. It was all about affordable New Year's Eve outfits, and it popped off. Within like 3 months, I had 100,000 followers, and I just started posting consistently. I knew of a handful of girls out in Los Angeles that were doing this full-time, and they actually had managers. There were agencies that were just dedicated specifically to YouTube, which was like a totally different world. So within 3 months, I signed with a manager, and then every summer from then on out, I would just fly out to LA and do collabs because collabs were like...
08:37	Shaan Puri	a lot yeah
08:37	Dani Austin	Oh yeah, collabs were everything. They actually had just opened YouTube Space in Playa Vista, Los Angeles, as well. They had this thing called the Creator Program, where they only allowed, I think, like 10 or 11 of us in—creators of all sizes. You had to collaborate with two other creators in the program in order to be able to use YouTube Space. So, when you got to YouTube Space, I mean, they had everything from their, you know, red camera, studios, editing bays, and editing suites. They had all these classes you could take. I would go and work for my manager from, you know, 9 to 5, and then from 5 to like 9, I would go to YouTube Space and just collaborate, make YouTube videos, learn about how to edit, and everything.
09:20	Shaan Puri	you're like 21 at the time
09:21	Dani Austin	yeah I'm 21 no I was 20 actually I was 19 20 I couldn't train so what
09:24	Shaan Puri	were you doing when you're working for your manager well just by day you're like
09:27	Dani Austin	so that's high
09:28	Shaan Puri	release and stuff or
09:28	Dani Austin	Yeah, no, I mean I was involved in all of the negotiations. A lot of the creators were moving out to LA, and the brands would come to the office to meet all the creators. I honestly learned everything about the back end of the business.
09:42	Shaan Puri	because then that's you weren't the star but you were like building up
09:45	Dani Austin	Yes, and then, like, also being around all these creators, I would meet some of the girls that I loved, get their numbers, and then we would collaborate. Everyone was very collaborative; everybody was helping each other out, so it was awesome. But then I was able to kind of take all of that back to Austin. There really weren't a lot of YouTubers in Austin, which also kind of helped me because I felt like I was one of the only ones. So when I did start pitching myself to brands, I had also signed with my manager. However, she was managing girls that had over a million followers, while I had maybe 150,000 at the time. I started pitching myself to all these startups in Austin, and what I found was happening was I was getting these brand deals or partnerships. I would get to know them, pull them in, and then forward them to my manager. I would look on YouTube, and all the other girls that were signed with her would be working with these brands, and I wasn't. So I was basically just funneling these brands to my manager. At that time, I realized, "I'm not big enough for them to care," right? So I needed to get out of this contract and just manage myself, build my own team, and have people that actually care about what I'm doing. As soon as I could, I got out of that contract, and ever since then, we've always kind of had an in-house team, which we've learned a lot from. Oh my gosh, it's just kind of crazy how it's evolved.
11:04	Shaan Puri	and so how even when you were so how many is the audience now
11:07	Dani Austin	So now on Instagram, like total, total on all of our platforms, we have probably over 2,000,000... yeah, 2,500,000 main.
11:13	Shaan Puri	one is instagram now
11:14	Dani Austin	The main one is Instagram, which is like the perfect platform for us. Most of our content is on Instagram Stories, and the reason we like that is because it's kind of like reality TV. I wake up with my audience; like, literally when I wake up in the morning, I get on Stories and I carry them throughout the entire day. It's just like the closest I feel people really feel like they're in our homes. You know, it's very stripped down.
11:36	Shaan Puri	yeah yeah it's a lot more authentic
11:38	Dani Austin	it's
11:39	Shaan Puri	Kinda like, "Follow my day." And so, you've done that. Now you also launched Divi.
11:44	Dani Austin	yeah
11:44	Shaan Puri	And it's because that's kind of how we initially found you guys. I read this thread, a Twitter thread that somebody else had written about this. They named five or six creators I'd never heard of who had businesses that were really big. It was like Divvy, a hair care product, and it was doing $40,000,000 or something in revenue. I don't remember the exact numbers, but I remember thinking, "Wow, that's really significant and so cool!" I had never really heard of that. Yes, you hear the same three or four examples all the time when it comes to people like Logan Paul with Prime, Mr. Beast, and whatever. Especially in the tech world, we kind of hear the same examples repeatedly. So, how did that come about? When did you decide to, instead of posting for other people, create your own brand? How did you pick the product? How did you have the confidence to go for it?
12:38	Dani Austin	Yeah, so there was definitely an era on Instagram where everything was perfect. You know, it's like back in the day of posting the perfect selfie or the perfect latte art, whatever it was. I definitely played that game, and it gets very exhausting after a while. I started actually losing my hair when I was in college. Whenever I was at UT, it first started with just me being so stressed out because I'm at UT, I'm flying to LA every weekend, and I'm posting these videos. I have like Neutrogena's "Where is the brand deal?" and I have like four exams the next day. So, I'm stressed out all the time. I blow out my hair, then I get hair extensions to try to cover that up, which makes it worse. Then I bleach my hair, and that makes it worse too. When we got married, I think like a year in, I looked in the mirror and I was like, "I literally have no more hair." I didn't even want to leave the house anymore. So, Jordan...
13:28	Shaan Puri	is a double I mean are we talking a couple strands of hair what are we talking about
13:31	Dani Austin	no I mean like bald spots like
13:32	Shaan Puri	patches
13:33	Dani Austin	like patches of hair I mean
13:34	Shaan Puri	stress driven
13:35	Dani Austin	stress driven and then hair extensions so that's probably like more traction alopecia
13:40	Shaan Puri	so what
13:40	Dani Austin	Happens when you put hair extensions in is that your hair can't withstand that weight. Instead of just losing hair where the hair extension is, with traction alopecia, you actually lose hair around the whole surrounding area. I see, so it was like multiple bald spots all over. So, Jordan, of course, my husband, he's like, "Wait, I don't get it. Why don't you just get a wig? All the Kardashians wear wigs. What's wrong with that?" So he takes me to a wig shop in Dallas, like the first place he Googles. We walk in, and it's like a Halloween store. The most expensive wig is like...
14:08	Shaan Puri	a bike called sorcery dollars
14:09	Dani Austin	yeah
14:09	Jordan Ramirez	it's a bright neon yellow I'm like I don't know if this is gonna
14:12	Shaan Puri	work they're like
14:13	Dani Austin	Plastic wigs... they're like, the most expensive one is about $15. So I leave there feeling so defeated. I'm like, "I'm always going to be bald," you know? So we actually learned about this wig shop in Los Angeles called "The Wig Shop," actually.
14:26	Jordan Ramirez	yeah
14:27	Dani Austin	from jeffree star
14:28	Shaan Puri	that's what
14:28	Jordan Ramirez	I was gonna say jeffree star
14:29	Dani Austin	Jeffree Star is another YouTuber. Anyway, long story short, we flew out there and I found my first wig. I was in wigs for a year, and actually, when I first got my first wig, I didn't tell anybody because I was so embarrassed. I was like...
14:41	Jordan Ramirez	We actually took a trip to Chicago with my parents, my sister-in-law, and my brother. We didn't tell them the entire time. They go, "Oh, nice haircut!" You know, like they...
14:50	Dani Austin	I mean these things can look so
14:51	Shaan Puri	real now they look like yeah they're super real
14:53	Dani Austin	It's insane. About a month into wearing it, I just felt like a fraud. I was like, "I gotta tell people." I feel like I'm probably not the only female going through something like this. I think that people will appreciate it, and hopefully they'll be cool with it. So, I shared that I was wearing wigs, and it kind of just opened up this door to all these females who are going through the same thing—this hidden epidemic of hair loss.
15:21	Shaan Puri	Life all the time, after we had our first baby, I think there's like an unknown kind of postpartum.
15:26	Dani Austin	oh yeah
15:27	Shaan Puri	Like, she had an issue with hair loss. She was talking about it all the time, and I was like, "What do you mean? It's not a thing. Don't worry about it." She was like, "No, look at this," and showed me these baby hairs or whatever. It really bothered her, and I didn't even think to try to consider what a solution would look like.
15:42	Dani Austin	so yeah it was
15:43	Jordan Ramirez	have felt that
15:44	Dani Austin	It can be very emotional, especially for females, because there just weren't a lot of people talking about it. So, long story short, I took the year and wore wigs. I was like, "You know what? I'm just gonna focus on my scalp health. I'm gonna focus on my wellness and really give this thing 100%." Meanwhile, there was actually this trend, or I guess a hack, online where a lot of women were using Monistat to grow their hair back, which is so strange. But the reason that was working is because it has a lot of antifungal properties.
16:19	Shaan Puri	static you
16:20	Jordan Ramirez	know tell songs danny you gotta tell him
16:22	Shaan Puri	is this true
16:22	Dani Austin	that I shouldn't
16:23	Shaan Puri	know about or no
16:24	Jordan Ramirez	no you shouldn't know about it
16:25	Shaan Puri	but it's is it a good thing that I don't know about this for me this is
16:27	Jordan Ramirez	a good clickbait
16:27	Dani Austin	tell him okay so all the guys on the podcast would be like what the
16:31	Shaan Puri	By the way, we always just explain, but we always joke that we have four female listeners. Hopefully, that'll change after this episode. We have...
16:36	Dani Austin	4 female listeners we're all like dying inside laughing right now
16:39	Shaan Puri	so like putting pictures on
16:39	Jordan Ramirez	their face right now
16:40	Dani Austin	so monasa is what people what females use for yeast infections
16:44	Shaan Puri	okay gotcha
16:45	Dani Austin	A lot of women were using this on their scalp, and it's helping their hair grow. People are taking before and after pictures, and it's insane. The reason that's working is because it has these antifungal properties. Nowadays, they always tell you not to wash your hair because it's not good for you. So, a lot of females are using dry shampoo. They’re putting all this dry shampoo and product on their scalp, which blocks the follicles. As a result, your hair doesn't really have a fair chance of growing. When they're using Monistat, it's kind of like detoxifying; it's getting rid of all that product buildup, and your hair is growing. The only thing with that is you shouldn't be using it long term because it has a lot of harmful ingredients. My goal was to find a more natural way to essentially accomplish the same thing. I would get into my bathroom and I studied biology at the University of Texas. I was going to...
17:32	Shaan Puri	so did I they don't teach you anything they I learned photosynthesis for like 7 years
17:37	Dani Austin	yeah exactly
17:38	Shaan Puri	teach anything about the human body exactly she can
17:40	Jordan Ramirez	hang with the chemist
17:41	Dani Austin	I can hang now
17:42	Jordan Ramirez	she can hang she's like okay I remember that
17:44	Dani Austin	I kinda I kinda get it but it's
17:45	Shaan Puri	amazing how much you learn when you really need to learn versus like by major
17:49	Dani Austin	now I wish I really would have paid attention because I think it really would have benefited me but
17:53	Jordan Ramirez	could've known
17:54	Dani Austin	Anyways, so, you know, I'm like a little chemist in my bathroom. I'm getting all these ingredients from online, Whole Foods, all over the place, and just making my own scalp serums. I would share on YouTube, like, "This is how I make it, this is where you order this, and then mix it this way." Then people started asking, "Hey, can you just ship it to me?" So, I go to Jordan and I'm like, "I really think this could be a thing. A lot of people..."
18:17	Shaan Puri	in the petri dish when was this like couple years ago
18:19	Dani Austin	or this was a 29th
18:22	Jordan Ramirez	no they're probably yeah 2019 2019 2019
18:25	Dani Austin	And so, that's kind of where the idea originated from. It was totally clean, so it's something that people could use every day and not feel like it's going to be harmful. We had a lot of eucalyptus and natural ingredients, like jojoba oil. However, there were many things I wanted to include that I just didn't have access to. Long story short, I found partners, found a great chemist, and then came out with our first product, which was a scalp serum. To be honest, I did not think that it would pop off at all. I really was just like, "I want to serve my audience." I've been very service-driven with all of my content. I'm like, "I just really want to serve people because I feel like if I serve them, they'll come back." That was really just the heart behind it. But what happened was a lot of people were buying it for their day, their mom, or their husband. People started taking before and after pictures. We never asked for before and after pictures, but I feel like that's kind of what made it blow up.
19:14	Shaan Puri	it's the best marketing there is right a before and after
19:16	Dani Austin	Photos! People started sending in their before and afters. Then I would start sharing them, you know, left and right. I mean, every day I'm probably tagged in like 15 before and afters, even to this day.
19:26	Shaan Puri	yeah so were there not scalp serums before that or there were but they just weren't
19:31	Dani Austin	You know, I think it was just such a new niche. Putting something on your scalp, like a skincare routine, creating that scalp routine was very new. People weren't really thinking about it. I'm sure that there were scalp serums out there, but I don't think people were educated about how to use them or why they were important. So our biggest thing is just like, if you're taking care of your skin, you should be taking care of your scalp. It's kind of like an extension of you know... I think once people kind of understood how to use it, then they went to Divvy first because we were also one of the only clean scalp serums out there.
20:03	Shaan Puri	gotcha so the business launches when 2020
20:07	Dani Austin	2020
20:08	Jordan Ramirez	no 2021 2021 october 2021
20:10	Shaan Puri	So, we're not even two full years in... and it's exploded. I don't know how much you guys typically share. Do you guys share revenue stuff or not really?
20:19	Jordan Ramirez	Yeah, I mean, like our first full year—I think you already shared it. Well, you said it was $20 million, but yeah, we did about $40 million. Then, you know, this year we're on track to do 30% to 35% growth. Yeah, it's crazy.
20:34	Shaan Puri	And that's mostly from the power of your community, or is that plus a bunch of other marketing that you have to do? How does the business grow?
20:41	Dani Austin	I mean how much do we see
20:43	Shaan Puri	that probably exceeded your expectations I mean that would exceed anyone's expectations yeah
20:46	Jordan Ramirez	I always say, when we launched the product, we thought that we were launching it for like 10% of Danny's audience. We were like, "Hey, these people need to be served." Danny acquired this audience; they want a resource. It just grew so far beyond that. A lot of people think that, you know, Divvy is all Danny's audience that's buying it, but she's only made up about 15% of the overall revenue. It was just a product that I think took off and worked. It was just the right place, right time. It was like during the era of the "skinification of the scalp," as the beauty gurus call it.
21:19	Shaan Puri	of I missed that whole era
21:20	Jordan Ramirez	yeah you missed the era
21:21	Shaan Puri	well it's here
21:22	Dani Austin	it's I
21:22	Shaan Puri	don't have a skin care routine either so I just I had to catch up I didn't start with skin move the skin
21:26	Jordan Ramirez	I gave you 2 boxes
21:27	Shaan Puri	yeah I know
21:28	Jordan Ramirez	You're in it now. And so, yeah, it's just been wild. I mean, we never expected this.
21:33	Shaan Puri	It's really interesting. Did you guys look at other creator-led businesses? Who was the inspiration that you're like, "Oh, you know, if we do this well, this could be like, you know, whatever Skims or this could be like Kylie's lip thing or whatever?"
21:47	Dani Austin	I mean, we've always admired the Kardashians in a business sense. Yeah, they're good at how they've used their reality TV to grow all these businesses. One thing we love about them is how they all support each other. It's like an ecosystem; you're using, you know, Kylie's makeup and then you're wearing Kim's Skims. We always love that aspect of what they do. But, I mean, in terms of our inspiration, to be honest, everyone in our space was just launching clothing lines, so it was totally different.
22:16	Jordan Ramirez	it was very very different were
22:18	Shaan Puri	you tempted to do that too or
22:19	Dani Austin	A hundred percent, Brian was like, "Please don't, please don't." But returns are insane. My parents—my dad actually has a showroom at the Dallas World Trade Center in Dallas. He sells wholesale to all, you know, Nordstrom and all these boutiques. My dad always told me, "The one thing I ask you is please don't get in the fashion industry." It's just... yeah, it's a lot. But one thing I knew that I wanted, if I ever did launch a business, is that I wanted to have something that could be on subscription. A lot of my ideas were mainly tech at first. I never really thought about...
22:53	Shaan Puri	like what like what would it have
22:55	Dani Austin	you know some service that you could get I had I honestly didn't have like a a what
22:59	Jordan Ramirez	like you we
22:59	Dani Austin	had the saas
23:00	Jordan Ramirez	One, yeah, there was one time where she wanted to launch her own app because she felt like she could build a better community through a different platform than Instagram. We tried it. We called it... what did you call it?
23:11	Dani Austin	the sassy club
23:12	Jordan Ramirez	The Sassy Club at the time used a third-party app system, and we drove a large part of our community to it. We tried to do more; the whole concept was, "Let's meet in real life with our audience." So, we did meetups and stuff like that, and that was just really hard.
23:28	Dani Austin	it was kind of like a bumble right
23:30	Shaan Puri	yeah
23:30	Jordan Ramirez	it was kinda like a bumble and so we tried that you know it it was pretty difficult and then
23:34	Dani Austin	it was it was difficult to manage like the in face interactions
23:39	Jordan Ramirez	yeah
23:39	Shaan Puri	Now, let me ask you a question. I just hired a guy and paid him $5,000 to do a couple of one-on-one workshops with me. It was all about this idea of personal branding, which honestly is a pretty lame phrase in general. I cringe that I even did all this, but I'm putting it out there in the spirit of authenticity. So, I paid this guy. Why did I pay him? Well, this podcast itself has gotten pretty popular, but I've always had this problem. You see some people, and their brand is so clear. There's this guy named Pop, and Pop is all about Bitcoin. He's the Bitcoin guy. Yeah, you know him because of Bitcoin. He talks about Bitcoin; everything he loves, you know, every fourth word needs to be "Bitcoin."
24:24	Dani Austin	yep
24:25	Shaan Puri	And then you have Tim Ferriss, who's known as the "4-Hour Workweek" guy or the "4-Hour Body" and "4-Hour Chef." He's all about life hacking your way to success. You go down the list, and a lot of people who have built good online followings have a clear identity, like they're the "blank guy" or the "blank gal." That's what they're known for. For me, I've always been like, "Well, I don't know about being the business guy." I don't know, that sounds very specific or focused. I was like, "Oh, I've gotten pretty far without that." But maybe somebody can help me sharpen this. So, this guy I hired works with people like Jay Shetty and a bunch of others, like the guy who did the Quest Bar thing, Tom... whatever his last name is. And he's like, "Yeah, you know, Jay Shetty's story is that he was kind of in and out of trouble, then decided to become a monk. He was a monk, and then he got kicked out of the monastery because a monk came to him and said, 'You know, there’s something bigger in store for you.' So, he decided to make it his life mission to bring ancient monk wisdom to the world in a modern way."
25:31	Dani Austin	I I
25:31	Shaan Puri	butchered I butchered that but something like
25:33	Dani Austin	that right
25:34	Shaan Puri	he he he
25:34	Dani Austin	he he killed it system
25:35	Jordan Ramirez	man right
25:36	Shaan Puri	he's doing
25:36	Jordan Ramirez	it every day
25:37	Shaan Puri	I just knew him as like the blue eyed indian guy yeah or like you know that's what stood out to me like the guys do you
25:42	Jordan Ramirez	know monks who
25:42	Shaan Puri	Are green eyes? Yeah, but I was like, "Okay, I see the value in if you really want to sharpen this, like whatever your brand is all about." But then I've met people who are maybe like you, who probably never hired a consultant or did a brand workshop, or sat down with a piece of paper and tried to architect it. It seems like it kind of happened organically and naturally for you. So, I have two questions for you. 1. Do you think you have a focus like that? Like the blank... you are the, you know, just like the Bitcoin guy. Do you have a thing that's like, "Our brand is about..."? Hmm... this word or these three words or whatever. Do you have something like that?
26:19	Dani Austin	So, when I started going through my hair loss, I think it was the first time that I kind of felt like I had that thing. I was kind of like the wig influencer for a while and then, kind of like the hair loss influencer. I mean, as cliché as it sounds, I feel like our biggest thing is we've always just been very authentic and goofy. We've figured out how to collide those worlds of being professional but also getting, you know, taking your heels off, getting back home, and just being real about what it's like having two kids. You're in heels, changing diapers, kids peeing all over you. But I would say it took like 10 years for people to kind of recognize me. I've never had, you know, this persona or this video pop off and go viral, and then everyone knows who I am. I've never had that moment. It's just been very gradual. But I totally feel what you're saying. I still go through those times where I'm like, "Okay, who am I? What's my identity?" I do feel like there are some bloggers out there that are so good at branding. Like, when you think of Chick-fil-A, you think of this one person, or when you think of this one brand, you think of it.
27:31	Shaan Puri	dude that should've been mine chick fil a you're a genius yes you've got to be the whole time
27:35	Dani Austin	Yeah, and it's like... I do try to find those things that, like, okay, when in Dallas, when people go here, what brands are they thinking of when they think of Danny? You know, but it's challenging because also, like, I'm very... you know, one day I want to be doing this, and one day I like to shift and be on my toes. So, what?
27:52	Shaan Puri	Do you think people get it wrong when they try to build a following? Not like the people who are just obviously bad, but let's say people who have the potential where it could be working out. What do you think are the mistakes that those people make?
28:04	Dani Austin	They're trying to be perfect all the time, and it's so unrelatable. I think one of the biggest reasons that people can relate is because we have made so many mistakes and we share them. There are times when we get online and we're like, "Man, that was bad. We shouldn't have done that." For example, I was cutting up fruit for my daughter Stella's lunch, and I was cutting the grapes wrong, you know? Like, where they can choke on grapes. I had no idea; my mom never cut my grapes, so I didn't know there was anything wrong. But, you know, the DMs are flooding in, the Facebook groups are popping off, and Danny's like, "Cutting the grapes wrong!"
28:37	Shaan Puri	kill your kid
28:38	Dani Austin	Yeah, and your dog... you're influencing all these moms to cut grapes wrong. I'm like, "Oh my gosh, I didn't know!" So, you know, you get on and you're like, "Guys, I'm so sorry. I made a mistake. Let me teach you the right way to cut grapes," instead of deleting the content and being embarrassed about it. And so, it's like, I think...
28:53	Jordan Ramirez	you cut them wrong the second time too
28:55	Dani Austin	I did, I did, I did. But yeah, I just feel like I have a lot of girlfriends in Dallas who are trying to do something similar. They're trying so hard to just be perfect all the time, right? And it's not really...
29:05	Shaan Puri	About you said the word "relatable." I think that's a key, key thing. We had the comedian Hasan Minhaj. I don't know if you heard me say that. Yeah, he was on Netflix or something like that. He came on, and I was asking him something about... because we do this like we're doing these live podcasts now sometimes. So we're doing one this Saturday here in Austin.
29:24	Dani Austin	mhmm
29:24	Shaan Puri	And so, I had asked him, I was like, "Hey, I'm going on stage. It's kind of like stand-up comedy. There's going to be, whatever, like 1,000 people in the audience. How do I... you know, any... what would you say for the first 5 minutes? How can I set a good tone here?" He gave me two pieces of advice. He said, "First, make it clear that you are there." So, he suggested talking about the room, talking about the person in the front row, talking about, you know, the city that you're in and what it's been like for you to be there. Just make it clear that, yes, you're there, and everybody will be present together when you do that. He said, "The second thing is low status." He explained, "People make this mistake a lot. They try to be high status. They're like, 'Yes, I want your approval, so I'm going to present a version of myself that is high status.'" However, in actuality, the way people relate to you and like you is by doing something low status. This means making fun of yourself, showing a weakness, being vulnerable, or saying something that makes you look bad—not great or embarrassing to you. He said, "You know, comedy is actually a low status art form, not high status." Typically, if you go to a conference and go on stage, it's going to be all high status stuff—people trying to say things that show how important they are and how smart they are in their resume and all that. Basically, that's not how people relate to you. What you're saying kind of reminds me of that: doing things that show some of the flaws. It's not just because they're there, but it actually helps. It builds that relatability.
30:53	Dani Austin	I know, I agree. I mean, I feel like the times that we connect with our audience the most are those goofy moments when I'm running around with no pants on. It's like you're thinking, "Oh, I relate! Same thing!"
31:04	Jordan Ramirez	I think there's a pushback on celebrity culture, even towards influencers. It's like, "I don't understand how this is relevant to my life at all." What the Kardashians are doing in their private jets and all this stuff feels disconnected. I think that’s where people feel at home, you know? In these relatable moments. This is what I told Ben he needs to do. I feel like you all do this so well on the podcast. You're not trying to be business guru experts; you're just talking about everyday people's businesses and sharing your thoughts on it. You're kind of riffing. I also told Sean that I think he just needs to do more. He needs to get on Instagram Stories and YouTube. That was my advice to him.
31:40	Dani Austin	are you on instagram
31:41	Shaan Puri	nonprivate like you know I'm on the yeah
31:43	Jordan Ramirez	a food person I've asked him
31:44	Shaan Puri	before I'm now nonprivate rash when we dm'd
31:47	Dani Austin	him it
31:47	Jordan Ramirez	was private I was like what's this guy doing yeah
31:49	Shaan Puri	yeah I didn't bother with instagram but but what did your your your
31:53	Jordan Ramirez	fancy branding coach tell you
31:56	Shaan Puri	So, what he was saying was that they did a great exercise. Actually, I kind of want to package this thing up so more people could do it. I think it's a pretty useful thing. What he says is, "You want to figure out your signature stories first." He advises not to try to get to the end of, "Oh, I'm known for X." Instead, go look at your signature stories that made you who you are. What were the moments in your life that defined you? Times when you made a key decision, like saying, "No more, I'm not doing this ever again." Some people have that moment when they give up alcohol, and that becomes their brand. The signature story is often the rock bottom story, where they were so embarrassed by something they did or felt, and then they decided, "Never again." It could also be a signature story where someone went from being shy to actually getting out there and being more confident. What changed? So, you find your signature stories that reveal what you're going to be known for. This is the mental shortcut people will use when they think about you. For example, "Who's that guy? Oh, he's the guy who blah blah blah." That's their story. The second thing he said was, "You gotta figure out what you said something about serving." Basically, people will come to your content because they're trying to change the way they feel. You have to know that you're not just giving information; you're providing a transformation of emotion—how someone feels. He asked, "What transformation do they get when they come to your content that you give them better and more consistently than anybody else?" If you do that, you win. So, you gotta figure out what that change is. For example, with the podcast, we talk about business ideas or show you an under-the-radar business you’ve never heard of that’s really interesting and crushing it. But let me ask you, I bet your answer will match what I think it is: Why do you listen to the podcast? What do you feel when you listen to it?
33:52	Jordan Ramirez	I think it's like education meets inspiration. I walk away feeling like, "Oh, cool new idea!" I want to learn more about that, or I feel like I can go do this in our business. I think that’s what you guys do really well. Whether it's just sharing ideas or uncovering these things we've never heard of, it's done in a relatable manner. That's why it's inspiring. You're not doing this in a way that says, "I'm up here and you're down here." It's more like, "Hey, we're all here and we can all do it."
34:23	Dani Austin	it's more tangible
34:24	Jordan Ramirez	It's more tangible. It's very relatable. I think that there are very strong parallels between what I've seen in Dani's content and the way that she relates to her audience, and what you guys are doing with your audience.
34:32	Shaan Puri	Well, we call it "the girl next door." We don't want to be a supermodel; we want to be the girl next door. Yeah, you're still trying to be hot, but you're trying to be like relatable hot.
34:40	Dani Austin	like the you're I just clam up like I can get there but yeah you are the girl I love that
34:44	Jordan Ramirez	How have people... Do you... What are your experiences like in real life when you meet people who listen to the podcast?
34:51	Shaan Puri	It's probably like how you feel, which is that they know you. They're like... like, you know what I mean? But I really know you.
34:58	Dani Austin	we're friends
34:59	Shaan Puri	Yeah, like an Instagram daily vlogging kind of thing, through an Instagram story, is kind of the same way. It's like the same. I know you, your kids, and I know what your house looks like. On my way here, I was asking my wife, "I don't follow them on Instagram, so I don't know their stories." Little did I know, they're like, "Oh, their mom is involved in it. They got two kids." There are all these little things that are known about your life, the inside of your life. I think that's what you guys do on the podcast. It's different. A podcast is such a long-form conversation, right? Unedited, unscripted. So you get to know someone's personality. I usually do the pod with my buddy Sam, and it's kind of like two friends hanging out, kicking it. What we found was that the two transformations, or feelings, that people get consistently is that we're like their entrepreneurial friends. It's almost like they get to hang out with their two guy friends who are super into business, nerding out about business stuff. It's like they kind of get to have the hangout without actually going and having the friends and doing the hangout themselves. Because it's like, "Oh, I was driving somewhere, and I just listened." They kind of got their hangout fix. The second feeling is motivation or inspiration, like the juice. Yeah, I’m probably not going to go do any of the things you mentioned on this podcast specifically, but just hearing about stories of people doing interesting things made me want to go do more interesting things. Or if they're doing well, it made me want to go crush it.
36:17	Dani Austin	mhmm
36:18	Shaan Puri	In my field too, once we realize that, it's like, "Oh, okay, that's very different." People come to me for this specific information or the specific help. Because it's like, yeah, there's some of that, but it's not the main thing that gets people attached to it.
36:31	Jordan Ramirez	I told Ben this, you know, but I said the biggest pitfall from here is you gotta stay humble and you gotta stay consistent. Because I think that what happens in this era—and you saw it a lot with the early TikTokers that blew up during COVID—is they moved into these big houses, right? You know, and then they would sign with these managers, and then they're all in all these commercials. The very thing that made them relatable and tangible during...
36:55	Dani Austin	those times dancing alone in their bedrooms
36:56	Jordan Ramirez	which was dancing alone in their bedrooms now they're in mansions and it just loses the same sentiment
37:01	Dani Austin	right
37:01	Jordan Ramirez	And I think that that's the pitfall of anyone really in the entertainment industry. It's like anyone who's built their brand off of authenticity risks losing that. So, it would be like you guys becoming jerks or douchey, and then no one wants to hang out. They're like, "Oh, well now they're just pompous." Or even like, you have to protect yourself. In our world, we have to protect ourselves from the sponsored things, like, "Oh, they're just bought now." You know, like, I don't trust them anymore. I don't believe that they're saying this for just genuine reasons. It's not Sam and right, you know, kicking it.
37:31	Shaan Puri	And so, you probably get this question a lot. It's the same question we get a lot, which is: "If you were just starting out today, what would you do?" If you were 21 now, where would you start? We get that on the business side. What would you say your answer to that is on the content side? Would you start on TikTok? Would you go to Instagram? What type of content would you create? Because, like you had said, one thing that was actually very interesting to me was your first video. You said it was about "affordable New Year's Eve outfits." That's kind of amazing because that's a great, almost like, title.
38:01	Dani Austin	mhmm
38:01	Shaan Puri	like it seems like from the beginning you had a good sense of like what content will work
38:06	Dani Austin	right yeah
38:07	Jordan Ramirez	not everybody has that
38:09	Shaan Puri	like I think most people would have tried something that's like not that
38:11	Dani Austin	I would say with any platform that I started on, I mean, I would probably start on TikTok now just because I feel like it's the easiest to go viral. Instagram is so tough, but I do feel like YouTube's kind of coming back a little bit.
38:23	Jordan Ramirez	yeah I heard vlogging's coming back
38:24	Dani Austin	I started vlogging long form, but I honestly wish I hadn't begun by chasing trends. I really wish I would have found something unique and honed in on that. I feel like I was trend chasing for so long. Then, I would have some videos pop off, but that was just because they were trendy. No one actually wanted to get to know me more.
38:45	Shaan Puri	right
38:46	Dani Austin	So, I wish I would have just been more unique. I think that kind of goes back to, like, what does Dani actually want to share? What is she really passionate about? I would mix in a little bit of that. Since I was studying biology and kinesiology, I would mix in a little bit of what I was learning in my classes. But then the next video was a trend.
39:03	Shaan Puri	right
39:03	Dani Austin	You know, that's the same thing that I feel like a lot of TikTokers get caught up in. Yeah, you know, they're just doing these trendy videos, and then they have a meetup, and like no one comes because nobody really knows them. Nobody actually connects with them. And then too, I think branding as characters within your content is so important. Like you said, my mom's in a lot of content, so I had this idea to call my mom.
39:25	Shaan Puri	what's her character
39:26	Dani Austin	So yeah, her character is what we call "Tornado." The reason we call her Tornado is because she is a tornado when she walks into a room. Like right now, if she were in this room, she'd be dusting off your leaves over there and fixing all the light bulbs. My mom has so much energy, and I didn't really know how to communicate that to the audience. So my first step was to say, "We call her Tornado." The second step is that every time she comes over, we're showing her up on a chair, dusting things off and...
39:52	Shaan Puri	doing tornado things
39:53	Dani Austin	Doing tornado things, pulling me out of my comfort zone, just like being a tornado. And then, you know, Jordan's character is like every single day he gets up at the same exact time. He gets dressed up every single time. I'm running around the house just like chaos. So we all have our certain characters, and I didn't really learn how important that was up until probably about 3 or 4 years ago.
40:16	Shaan Puri	and how did you learn that you sort of like
40:18	Dani Austin	I was interested in people starting to forget who we were, so I had to create a way where people, when they were missing it, could associate our family with something and remember us throughout the day. So "Tornado" was kind of huge for us. I feel like that was not only relatable, but it was also very significant because... you know, even before we had kids, the content we were creating, I'm like, "Who relates to this?" We're traveling all over the world, taking outfit pictures. You know, like, this is not... yeah.
40:46	Jordan Ramirez	this makes sense
40:46	Dani Austin	And honestly, it was exhausting for us because it wasn't even relatable for us, you know? So as soon as we kind of settled down and had kids, I was like, "Okay, we have to figure out a way to make our everyday life interesting."
40:59	Shaan Puri	You're like, so we bought our nice house and then we have our relatable house. Yes, we don't have our relatable house, and then we go sleep in the nice house.
41:05	Dani Austin	At night, honestly, I know people that do that. I know influencers that have second houses that literally just film.
41:12	Shaan Puri	their or yeah our middle class house
41:14	Dani Austin	No, or I know influencers that literally will take a Chanel bag to dinner, but they'll switch it with an Amazon one before they take the photo. But no, I feel like what's so unique about us too is that we kind of live our lives just the way we were raised, with the same family values that we were raised with. We're not scared to share that with our audience.
41:37	Jordan Ramirez	Yeah, I mean, I would say like everything you said a lot about characters. This is like who they are, you know? It was just like how do we kind of tell it from all these different angles? It just fit. You know, every family is a story, right? I think that that's where a lot of the creativity seeped into what we did. Right? And why it was hard to do what we did is we had to find what made our family unique and almost produce it like a reality TV show. I think that, I mean, I don't want to say that we were the first, but I think that that's what we saw the medium of Instagram stories as. A lot of influencers in like the 2019 era, when it came out, were like, "Oh my gosh, how am I going to do this?" because they're not super personable. We, you know, with your YouTube background, were like, "Oh man, this is like our platform to shine." And it was so fun! So what I'm pushing you to do is like show your wife, show your kids, like show the behind the scenes of what is happening in Sean's life beyond just this podcast. That's what I think.
42:29	Dani Austin	And it doesn't even have to be family. It could be like your producer or your assistant or whoever it is. My brother now has an assistant; her name's Katie. She shows up like three days a week, and everyone loves her on the content. Now, because they love her and because she's a character, they go out and do these crazy things that they probably would have never done. That's just so much more entertaining now because there's another character involved.
42:51	Shaan Puri	And so, who's... are you just like taking a selfie with the camera? Do you have somebody who follows you around?
42:57	Dani Austin	this guy he's a
42:57	Shaan Puri	hello and answer okay
42:59	Dani Austin	This guy, I mean, yeah, we do have a content creator now that we actually just hired.
43:04	Jordan Ramirez	yeah so like reels because those are that's a different that's
43:07	Dani Austin	a whole another beast so you know he's been helping out a little bit but like we kinda just enjoy doing ourselves
43:12	Jordan Ramirez	there's a lot
43:12	Shaan Puri	I talked to another woman who listens to the podcast. It's Rebecca Zamarolo. You know, she's a YouTuber and she's got like 10,000,000 subscribers on YouTube.
43:21	Dani Austin	mhmm
43:21	Shaan Puri	And when I called her, she was basically like, "Yeah, downstairs right now is the camera crew. They basically live in our house." She's like, "My dog has a channel that's got like 300,000 subscribers. We have our gaming channel, and she does like kind of kids' role play content or something like that." Yeah, it's a story kind of like, "Oh, let's find a treasure chest in the backyard. Let's go do whatever." Not only is each one a character, but each one has their own subchannels and their own following. Then they have a camera crew that is just there all the time. I was like, "Man, that's stressful." It's a lot!
43:56	Dani Austin	it's like reality tv
43:57	Shaan Puri	It's like, you know, famous people have trouble when they go out because they keep getting stopped. But almost like influencers have it in the house. It's like, I never get to just not... Yes, have you said the same thing?
44:07	Jordan Ramirez	Yes, oh my gosh, it's hard. I love our team to death, but you know, it's hard when your job is to live your life. Your job is to experience life and capture it in a very raw, stripped-down way. However, when there are crews and teams, it can sometimes be counterproductive to what you're trying to do. The reason I think that the husband and wife dynamic works so well in our niche is because it's just us hanging out, you know? And it's like...
44:32	Dani Austin	it's the best content there there is
44:34	Jordan Ramirez	Had a bin in her life that was like falling around that wasn't her husband. It's all about the dynamic, right? And so, you know, it's funny. I always advocate for like the best producer for a content creator is going to be the husband. In fact, I think that the most successful couples in our niche have that husband-wife dynamic where they're creating content together.
44:52	Dani Austin	It is funny. We have a team, and they come over about four days a week. They meet in our upstairs playroom. They’re not the ones actually filming the content, but they’re there.
45:03	Shaan Puri	yeah truly it's it's it's also that as we had
45:05	Jordan Ramirez	more kids it was like okay we're just gonna put this ball pit in here okay here's stella's table and so stella will walk in
45:10	Shaan Puri	and just be playing they're there
45:11	Dani Austin	But the amount of times that we've tried to, you know, get a workspace or get an office, it just doesn't work. They have to be there because, like, if we're going into an office every day, that's not relatable anymore.
45:23	Shaan Puri	right
45:23	Dani Austin	and there's also like nothing I don't know
45:25	Jordan Ramirez	It's truly one of the most technical nuances that's difficult about our industry. It's like, how do we position our team? Where do we put them? Then, like, Danny can't just say, "Hey Danny, come to the office and do a try-on haul. All the clothes are in the closet," right? So, it's always the trade-off of, "Okay, do we have people in our house? What do we do?"
45:45	Dani Austin	yeah we're still figuring it out
45:47	Jordan Ramirez	still figuring it out
45:48	Shaan Puri	And for the Instagram kind of sponsored content or brand deals, tell me a little bit about those. How have those changed over time? What is working the best, or what works? Yeah, what doesn't work anymore, or what doesn't work at all when people try it?
46:07	Dani Austin	Yeah, so I mean, Brandeel started out as, you know, "Here's a product, go make a YouTube video, include it for 20 seconds, put the link in there." At first, I was such a sellout because, you know, I'm 20 years old. I'm just trying to pay my rent; I'll do anything I can to just get by. Then, I think you get to a point where you're like, "Wait, people really trust me. This is like some responsibility." So I kind of took this approach where I pictured myself shopping with them, them purchasing something, then trying it, and then them being like, "What the heck, Danny? Why'd you recommend this?" I really started to take more responsibility and think, "Wait, I am a resource. I gotta serve these people." Not only that, I have to find the best deals. I need to go after these brands and beg them for better promo codes that they can't get anywhere else. So it kind of became competitive with myself.
46:57	Jordan Ramirez	Yeah, we kind of became like a QVC. We're always going to have the best deal. So, we tried to adopt that mentality in-house.
47:04	Shaan Puri	you know
47:04	Jordan Ramirez	We always describe it as a triangle. At the top is the audience, and as long as we're prioritizing them first, everyone's happy. At the bottom left is our business, which we have to take care of since we run a team. On the right is the brand we're serving. We found that every time we try to flip the triangle in a different way, such as putting the brand at the top, the audience reacts negatively, saying, "You don't actually like this product," and everything kind of crumbles. I would say this year in particular, especially with COVID, there was just this craze for promo codes. Shopping was happening so much through Instagram that we found our edge to be, "Hey, let's get the best deal that you're not going to find anywhere else in the country." It kind of...
47:47	Dani Austin	Yeah, but I think what works a lot for us is to not just go 100% on brand deals, but to also couple that with affiliates. So when I post, you know, LTK... yeah, so when I share something that I...
47:59	Shaan Puri	like to know or anything
48:00	Dani Austin	Like to Know It? Yes! So, Like to Know It is basically a platform where, you know, anything I swipe up to, you can make a commission off of it. But the best thing about LTK is I can share things that I genuinely bought. For example, this top right now, I got from Target. I purchased it, and I get to go tell people, "Okay, it kinda fits a little tight in the shoulders, so maybe go a size up." You know, here's the link. Make sure you order it in white because that's about to sell out, whatever it is. So that's like super authentic, super real. People know that you're making a commission off of it, but they don't care because you're just providing them with a lot of value. So that's like 50% of how we monetize. The other half is, you know, through brand deals. I feel like if you have a really strong affiliate base, you can get really picky with the brands that you're choosing. We got super picky over the past couple of years, and then it got to a point where, like, okay, we're getting brand deals, we got affiliates. Now let's go after those brands that have never given promo codes or never given deals. Let's fly out there and meet with them in person and beg them for promo codes. One of those examples was Free People. You know, girls love Free People. I've been wearing Free People for years. They never do promo codes; they rarely do. They'll go on sale, but they never do like a discount code. So we begged them forever to get a code. Finally, we got a code. Within the first hour, we pushed seven figures because people were like, "And not only that, but because I had worn it for years and people had seen these specific crop tops that I've been wearing for so long, it was like the most genuine, authentic push." It benefited the brand, it benefited us, and it benefited the audience. Everyone's happy.
49:33	Shaan Puri	And so, what's the juiciest brand deal you've ever had? Where you're like, "Wow, they're going to pay us that? That's a stupid amount of money!" Or like, you know, "We can make this work."
49:43	Dani Austin	you don't
49:43	Shaan Puri	have to say the name of the brand or you can just describe it
49:45	Dani Austin	you wanna say it
49:47	Jordan Ramirez	I know what you're gonna say I think you say it
49:50	Dani Austin	stanley
49:51	Shaan Puri	yeah
49:51	Dani Austin	stanley stanley the cups
49:53	Shaan Puri	like giant water
49:55	Dani Austin	yeah so fun fact we were like the first
49:57	Shaan Puri	why are those like so popular
49:58	Dani Austin	we were the first to share them yeah 1st bloggers
50:01	Shaan Puri	We influenced my wife. Yeah, and I was like, "This is humongous! This is a giant, giant cup."
50:06	Jordan Ramirez	It’s a great product, you know. They are owned by PE, and so we flew up to Seattle. We were like, "Guys, listen." They really hit that Utah Mormon market really well. I love that market; it’s a great market. Then they saw that it was working. The president is a guy named Terrence. He’s actually a phenomenal marketer. He was the one who put Post Malone and Crocs together and kind of reversed Crocs' trajectory to being a cultural icon. I think he had noticed Danny and was like, "Hey, you know, there’s something about this mom market that’s working with Stanley." So, he flew us up there, and it was hard. They still haven’t given us a code per se on the Quincher, or have they?
50:46	Dani Austin	not on the quencher we have a code on every other product but the quencher
50:49	Jordan Ramirez	yeah that's it's hard but yeah they they've been good
50:52	Shaan Puri	they've been awesome to
50:53	Dani Austin	us we have some special things coming out with them we're excited
50:56	Shaan Puri	about it we're excited amazing
50:59	Jordan Ramirez	I can't find this client info
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51:16	Shaan Puri	so pain points right so like you talked about how divvy was born out of a pain. That you had
51:20	Dani Austin	yeah
51:21	Shaan Puri	I'm curious, as you guys are trying to run this kind of influencer business and Divvy, have you felt any pain points that you're like, "God, I wish somebody just made this easier" or made this...?
51:31	Dani Austin	hiring people easier yeah wait this is kinda random but like content creation at weddings
51:37	Shaan Puri	content creation at weddings what do
51:39	Dani Austin	you think
51:39	Shaan Puri	tell me what
51:39	Dani Austin	So, I feel like now brides really want TikToks or reels, or just like iPhone photos. They don't want to hire a photographer and wait, you know, two months before they get their photos back. So, at my wedding, I just hired someone to take an iPhone and walk around, taking iPhone video. That's a...
51:57	Shaan Puri	good idea that's a
51:58	Jordan Ramirez	great idea
51:58	Shaan Puri	that's a great idea
51:59	Dani Austin	Take photos, and I just paid them hourly. But I feel like you could get a pretty good team that, you know, they take all this. The nice thing is too, you get your content the day after the wedding. Because like the biggest bummer is you go to your honeymoon and you don't have any pictures.
52:12	Shaan Puri	after the post yeah
52:13	Dani Austin	then they post and like people are gonna pay for that because it's their for one day
52:17	Shaan Puri	but a normal videographer I think is like $10
52:20	Jordan Ramirez	oh it's yes
52:21	Dani Austin	and sometimes I don't even I like the iphone
52:23	Shaan Puri	The videos are, like you said, my sister-in-law just got married a few months ago. She just now got the first cut.
52:30	Jordan Ramirez	of the
52:30	Shaan Puri	wedding video and then that doesn't look like what content looks like nowadays
52:34	Dani Austin	exactly
52:34	Shaan Puri	it looks like this like arcade like looking thing it's like nice
52:38	Dani Austin	yeah
52:38	Shaan Puri	but it's like if you posted this it's like okay grandma like you know what this is not like and
52:42	Jordan Ramirez	his brother had like 5 tiktoks and like 6 instagram
52:45	Shaan Puri	that like felt like the fun of the party you know
52:48	Jordan Ramirez	was captured
52:48	Dani Austin	I think the reason we've noticed that is because Jordan films a lot of our content. We've been to a lot of weddings where the next day the bride is reaching out to me, like, "Hey, can you send me that reel that you posted or your stories for the day?" And we're like, "Oh, they already expired. They're done for it," you know?
53:03	Jordan Ramirez	And so, yeah, many content creators now feel like they don't want to be influencers. They're just content creators; they'll just create content for other people. I think someone's going to... that's always been a great idea you had.
53:13	Dani Austin	thank you I had more time
53:14	Shaan Puri	I I like my I like that one a lot and that's cool because that could just be like local franchises
53:18	Jordan Ramirez	right like yeah
53:20	Shaan Puri	you could you
53:20	Dani Austin	just train someone how to do that
53:21	Shaan Puri	You could just start that business and then be like, "I'm looking for an operator in Nashville. We need an operator in Florida." Yep, who's going to be able to do these, like, dispatch content creators?
53:30	Dani Austin	so easy
53:30	Jordan Ramirez	and they go in and then they like cut it all up and then they have it to you by midnight
53:34	Shaan Puri	Yeah, who did you... you said there's a bunch of content creators that don't want to be influencers. So who are they? What are they doing?
53:39	Jordan Ramirez	Yeah, I would say we've seen this a lot with Divvy. It's called UGC now, which stands for User Generated Content. So, there's a whole economy now where creators are not getting paid like in a brand deal to promote it on their own stories. It's like, "Hey, we'll pay you $2,000 for four videos with our brand a month." These brands will have ten UGC creators on standby, on retainer, and they use that content for ads. What is happening is that our UGC content at Divvy is performing the best over any type of branded asset. It makes it feel like a lot of people are using the brand in organic ways, and they are. But it's a whole other new class. I was like, "Oh my gosh, people are doing that? That's insane!"
54:27	Shaan Puri	Yeah, we pay for our brand. We pay like between $1,200,000 to a handful of creators for this exact thing. And it's like they don't have a following. They're just good at creating this content. They're like, "Wow, you know, I get free product and I get paid to do this. This is amazing!" And I don't even need to be famous. Like, yeah.
54:48	Dani Austin	I felt the hit. Even with my brand deals, we don't get a lot of those opportunities anymore. They used to come to me and say, "Hey, we'll pay you X amount." But now, I guess we're too expensive or something because we never hear from them anymore.
54:59	Jordan Ramirez	What's kind of shifted is the interesting part about how the influencer industry changes. It always kind of goes in waves, right? But it's moving from mass marketing, where as many people as possible are using and talking about your product at the same time.
55:13	Dani Austin	that's how it goes viral on tiktok
55:14	Jordan Ramirez	so it goes viral on tiktok
55:16	Shaan Puri	And so, where does Divvy go from here? So, you guys are at this level now. You have retail distribution too, right?
55:23	Jordan Ramirez	Yeah, so last year we did about 8% of our revenue from retail. However, we are scaling in Ulta, so we're hoping to be in all doors of Ulta by the end of this year. I don't know, Danny's always been big on not taking investors, so we didn't do that at the front end. We're kind of like, we own our own destiny at this point. I think that we're very passionate about the mission of Divvy. It's hard to create an influencer brand that people don't think you just slapped your name on, right? So we really wanted to create a product that is more and bigger than Danny. The products have to be really good, and so we're really focused right now on innovation. We're trying to patent some of our technologies.
56:03	Shaan Puri	why is it called divvy what's the name of the
56:05	Jordan Ramirez	yeah you answered this I was forgetting
56:07	Dani Austin	So, Divvy is just like divvying up attention to each area of your life. It's about overall better lifestyle and overall wellness, but is it?
56:15	Shaan Puri	one of those things where it just sounds cool then later you're like what's the meaning or you're like I always try she doesn't
56:19	Dani Austin	want to be like wanna know
56:21	Shaan Puri	it
56:21	Dani Austin	was just so hard to trademark yeah
56:22	Shaan Puri	I was like I mean
56:23	Dani Austin	we have she
56:24	Jordan Ramirez	gets mad when I say this but I was like yes the third name all the other songs are trademarked
56:27	Dani Austin	no it was like the 30th name like
56:30	Shaan Puri	it's a good name yeah
56:31	Jordan Ramirez	it's good yeah
56:32	Dani Austin	now I like I love it now but
56:35	Shaan Puri	and so you go into retail you hired up a bunch of people you said
56:39	Jordan Ramirez	yeah
56:39	Shaan Puri	what else is like what's the next unanswered question for you guys what do you try to figure out next
56:44	Jordan Ramirez	I would say, like, you know, last year was very difficult just because it was kind of Danny and I running everything. We've now, like you said, hired a suite of VPs. I'd say the next biggest challenge for us is that we're kind of setting the stage for 2024 to go international. Some companies have done really well, and other companies have really botched it. It's been just like a money pit. So that's probably the next frontier for us. We would like to do it without having to raise additional capital. We've done everything thus far ourselves, which is very...
57:17	Dani Austin	Unique! The best part is that our audience is kind of built in. So when we launch something, people tell me that day if they like it or not, or what they want more of. Our sequence, or what we've launched, we only have 4 SKUs right now, has just been about listening to our audience. One of the biggest things is, can you sell internationally? So we're definitely working on that. We also have a lot of other SKUs in the pipeline since we only have 4 SKUs. We have a lot of product coming.
57:43	Jordan Ramirez	development's been the hardest thing to learn for us for sure
57:45	Dani Austin	oh I'm sorry and
57:47	Shaan Puri	So, there's that company, Seed Beauty, that was doing stuff for... I forgot who, Kylie or something like that. Yes, there are these companies that are behind a lot of the influencer brands. Like, I know the Prime drink or whatever. There are these guys behind it; they have their own company and do multiple brands out of that. Did you guys work with somebody like that, or did you do your own sourcing and manufacturing?
58:08	Jordan Ramirez	we found a manufacturer and that's pretty much it
58:11	Shaan Puri	and like formulation how'd you do that you went to like a formulation house or whatever I've kinda the same
58:16	Jordan Ramirez	Yeah, like manufacturers usually have chemists in-house. We found one, and they developed our serum. Luckily, we just picked one, right? That's a very hard world to navigate too. I've learned that we totally got lucky with our manufacturer on the first one because there are a lot of bad manufacturers out there, and you don't know until six months later, right? So picking the good ones has been hard. But yeah, other than that, I mean we...
58:39	Dani Austin	have 2 in house chemists now
58:40	Jordan Ramirez	Yeah, we have two in-house chemists. With the influencer business, like Danny learned so much from having a manager. We've always just tried to be entrepreneurs in-house and bring things in-house, which is usually longer. You make more mistakes; it's harder. But I mean, I think that we like where we're at. We didn't have a Cody or someone come in and say, "Just slap your name on this," because we're able to listen to our audience and develop the products that we know they want. But yeah, it's more challenging.
59:05	Dani Austin	for sure I didn't see him at all last year
59:08	Shaan Puri	yeah I was
59:08	Dani Austin	I was
59:09	Jordan Ramirez	I'm like, I have a life now. I play paintball now, so I'm good. Yeah, I play paintball now.
59:15	Dani Austin	Yeah, and it's also the first time now that we have our four VPs. When we walk into a room and we're like, "Hey, we have an idea. Can we do this?"
59:22	Jordan Ramirez	Yeah, we're like, "What's the political process of how we get things done?" And now there's process everywhere, whereas... you know, if we have an idea today on the content side, we're like, "Okay, let's make it happen." It's just... it's becoming a real company, which is cool, but it comes with the [challenges].
59:34	Shaan Puri	yeah
59:34	Dani Austin	I have to be careful jordan tells me when we walk into the office he's like you can't just walk into the office and tell them what you want or
59:39	Shaan Puri	you don't like something
59:40	Jordan Ramirez	we've been working on this product for a month she's like yeah I don't really like it you know that's like wait wait just don't say it
59:44	Shaan Puri	there's crushing hopes and dreams
59:46	Dani Austin	I'm sorry sorry
59:47	Shaan Puri	you think you'll be doing content in like 5 years 10 years
59:50	Dani Austin	I'm 100% obsessed. I'm obsessed with my job; I love creating content. I don't even think of it as a job, but it's honestly like... I think our relationship is always really healthy. We're creative together and creating things together, and I think we love doing that.
01:00:10	Shaan Puri	instagram therapy basically yeah pretty much I mean you guys connected well if you work with
01:00:15	Jordan Ramirez	Your wife, like you, I feel like you have to work through so much more conflict than if you have a 9 to 5. I mean, we... yeah, it's... it makes our relationship stronger in a...
01:00:23	Dani Austin	I mean, with something like a larger goal, we'll see how it evolves with involving our family, like our kids. That's something I still haven't really figured out. That's what's so great about working with Jordan. If we ever didn't want to share our kids or go down that path, he and I can just take over again. Also, having Divvy means we don't have to rely on sharing the entire family. But no, I think it's something that we'll probably always be doing.
01:00:50	Shaan Puri	yeah where's well on instagram
01:00:52	Dani Austin	Yeah, so people can find us on Instagram under Danny Austin and then at DiviOfficial.com. Yep, and then on Instagram, it's @DiviOfficial.
01:01:01	Shaan Puri	yep easy what about you where's your instagram
01:01:04	Jordan Ramirez	oh I don't you
01:01:04	Shaan Puri	don't even have one I don't have one dude you got a spinoff character man I'm like no
01:01:09	Jordan Ramirez	it's so much effort that I I I couldn't I couldn't
01:01:12	Shaan Puri	it would
01:01:12	Jordan Ramirez	cost it's fine it would it would it would cause conflict in our marriage to try and do both like
01:01:17	Shaan Puri	it would true yeah
01:01:18	Jordan Ramirez	I'm a great supporting actor
01:01:19	Shaan Puri	that's hilarious amazing they're good
01:01:21	Dani Austin	if people wanna come work for you how would they mind you
01:01:23	Shaan Puri	yeah yeah if you want if you're yeah
01:01:25	Jordan Ramirez	If you guys want to come work for Divvy, email [email protected] and it'll get to me. Yeah, awesome!
01:01:31	Shaan Puri	Well, thanks for doing this! I know this is definitely... you're probably like, "What the heck is this podcast? Who are these guys?" But, you know, I appreciate you coming on. This was fun! This was fun.
01:01:40	Dani Austin	yeah thank you for having us
01:01:41	Shaan Puri	right on

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