How LiverKing And SBF Used Drugs To Skyrocket Their Business 🚀 (#392)

Sam Parr

Sam Bankman-Fried was about 19 years old when this post was made in 2010. I just want to read this; it’s going to be a little long, but it’s really interesting. So, it says: "First off, I’m a 19-year-old male, about 170 pounds, who is experimenting with nootropics out of curiosity. A few months ago, I ordered a bottle with 60 doses of 5 milligrams of Celgene from a research chemical site. I’ve been taking it pretty much every day. The day I started taking it, I noticed a marked increase in motivation. For me, it was money. There was a huge desire for me to make as much money as possible." Alright, what's going on? We have an awesome episode! We’re going to start off by talking a ton about controversy. In fact, this entire episode feels like it’s about controversy. The first part is on FTX, and we talk about the drugs they are on. It’s kind of funny, actually, how ridiculous it is. The second thing we talk about is the Liver King. You guys have to hear the story. It’s about this yoked guy who’s a fitness influencer and has built a $100 million company. It turns out he’s been on steroids the whole time. But in my opinion, that’s actually not the most interesting part. The most interesting part is these emails that we got our hands on about him talking about how he was going to get huge on Instagram. He totally called his shot! Then we talk about buying and selling really expensive real estate. We’re talking about things that are like $30, $40, $50 million. There’s this one woman, Katie, who bought some real estate that kind of sent some signals to Sean, and he thinks it’s a little mysterious how she actually afforded that. It’s a really, really interesting story, so check it out! I think you’re going to like this episode. Alright, we’re live! I have two interesting things to bring up to you, and I think they’re both pretty hilarious.

Shaan Puri

hit me

Sam Parr

The first one, we've talked about FTX. We've talked about Sam Bankman-Fried. But something... and then the next two segments, I completely ripped off a YouTube channel called "More Plates More Dates."

Shaan Puri

so I don't wanna take credit for any of this

Sam Parr

Something that's interesting is that these guys were doing drugs. Sometimes they call them nootropics, but they're really just amphetamines. They're drugs, and they were talking about it publicly. Looking back, it's just hilarious how blatant this was. They were rubbing it in our faces. So, I want to talk about that. Do you know anything about that with these folks?

Shaan Puri

So, I know what you're talking about. I know that they were kind of open about it, promoting it, but not... like you said, this wasn't seen as too much of a red flag. It was sort of almost like, "Oh man, this is that ultra-competitive nerd thing," where they're basically, you know, doing Adderall and making all this money. So, when you're making money, it's not seen as much of a bad thing. But when you scam people and lose everyone's money, then it's like, "These drugs are a problem."

Sam Parr

Alright, so this YouTube channel is called **More Plates More Dates**. It's the guy who breaks down what drugs different celebrities are using for various roles. He goes into in-depth analysis on it, and it's pretty nerdy but quite awesome. He did this segment talking about **FTX** and the drugs that **Sam Bankman-Fried** was on, along with a few interesting segments. The whole FTX saga boils down to two interesting people: Sam Bankman-Fried, who is the leader, and his right-hand woman, what’s her name? **Caroline Ellison**, I believe. So, on April 5, 2021, listen to this tweet that she put out: > "Nothing like regular amphetamine use to make you appreciate how dumb a lot of normal, non-medicated human experience is." At the time, she was running **Alameda Research**, which had **$1 billion** under management. She was making huge decisions and tweeted out the dumbest thing: > "This morning I was lying on the couch reading a book. Then I decided to go for a hike, but it took me like half an hour to muster the energy and motivation to actually get from the couch." I guess this means this was when she wasn't on drugs. The hike was good; my body had no problem making the countless exertion of effort involved in ascending and climbing. But the second dumbest thing that I realized is that apparently, there's about **20%** of my brain that's dedicated to food. So when you're on amphetamines, you don't worry about food. And she's just tweeting this in the open, you know? This is like... she's just telling us all to go fuck ourselves. It's just hilarious that looking back, that was actually a thing she was openly talking about. It's wild! I actually said that openly. She had a Tumblr where she said she wants to date a guy who wants to conquer the world and dominate global governments. She wants to control governments, and I thought, "She's like, that's..."

Shaan Puri

my kink that's what I'm into

Sam Parr

It's so funny. Another interesting thing is there's this picture of Sam sitting at his computer. You see a patch on his arm and a wrapper, like a food wrapper, on his desk. People start analyzing it and they realize that this picture, basically—and this is actually from Autism Capital, my favorite source of news—they tweeted this out. They go, "If you look closely, it's actually a stimulant patch that Sam was wearing." It's called Emsam, which is basically a drug normally used to treat depression or Parkinson's. However, for off-label use, people use it for alertness and focus benefits. So they go down and talk about it. Emsam, Emsam—that's the brand name drug—but it's really... what is it? How do you pronounce that?

Shaan Puri

celageline I don't know

Sam Parr

celageline I believe is what it's called and it has fatal effects if it's eaten with meat products which is interesting because sbf was a vegan so that kinda checks out and the downsides of it are that it is linked to impulse control disorders such as pathological gambling and hypersexuality which could lead to some of the weird things that that sam was doing and here's what's even more interesting in march of 2019 there was this like website that was built for users of this drug and in 2019 this person left a post and it said where basically he was reviewing his thing and at the time if you do the math sam beckman fried was 19 years old about 19 years old about when this post was posted in 2010 and I just want to read this is going to be a little bit long but it's really interesting I want to read what this post says so it says 1st off and this is a review of someone using this drug first off I'm a 19 year old male about £170 who is experimenting with nootropics out of curiosity a few months ago I ordered a bottle with 60 doses of 5 milligrams of celgene celgene from a research chemical site and it looked and I've been taking it pretty much every day the day I started taking it I noticed a marked increase in motivation for me it was money there was a huge desire for me to make as much money as possible I'd never been a material person at all although I had money I never thought about doing anything with it other than spending it I guess some might say that and then the arrow kinda screws me up on twitter but some might say that possessing a money is a bad thing but the feeling was and is nothing short of complete empowerment I love doing math problems in my head involving money the thinking was so clear from having a bit under $500 in the bank to having over $10,000 in 2 months that I had since I had started taking the drug of course I can't quite disclose how I made this money but I have to say that I engage in activities that I probably wouldn't have without celgene and then I'll I'll kinda like skim the rest of the stuff but it says I was motivated to use better vocabulary while speaking to people I used to be pretty goofy and not many people took me seriously but now when I talk people listen there's a notable increase in strength in my voice and I would say I probably had low confidence before taking this and now the words that I say instead of saying may I form it's I will it makes it makes people tend to look it makes me tend to look down on most people but not in such a way that it would affect friendships although a few friends mentioned to me that I changed because of my general mindset this probably sounds incredibly cocky but it's true confidence I'm still nice to people it's just that it's just now they seem it's just now that I look more confident another benefit is emotional numbing before taking this I would jump on any chance to be with a decent looking girl and I would become attached pretty quickly on it I'm completely rational and my emotions my emotions are never affected by my thinking I'm not even looking for a girlfriend until one can rationally show me that she's really worthy girls love to play the game to say the least I'm a calmer I'm calmer with without emotional outbursts when I get upset with people I simply use my enhanced charisma to undermine them rather than losing control this is awesome

Shaan Puri

that's

Hubspot

not something you actually thought you're gonna have like are you trying

Shaan Puri

to take this right now

Hubspot

will

Shaan Puri

no my enhanced charisma

Hubspot

my increased desire for money no woah patch with my

Shaan Puri

first million in it

Sam Parr

Dude, I was prescribed **Ritalin** when I was in 4th grade, and I took it for one year. It was the **worst**. Since then, I've never taken any of this crap. I hate it. I hate these amphetamines. But this is a pretty good commercial; this is pretty great.

Shaan Puri

commercial this is pretty awesome

Sam Parr

it's also like what if this is him what if this actually is him

Shaan Puri

It is probably not him, just by odds. But it's way more fun to assume that it is him. And you know, as we say, "F this guy." So, yeah, it's him as far as I'm concerned.

Sam Parr

But even if it's not him, this person... If you go to the website, by the way, where this forum is... it's like a nerdy forum. I definitely... there's no evidence, but it adds up to where I could see that this could be him. But even if it's not him, the way this person describes it makes a lot of sense for how this guy behaved. No excuses, but like this guy was...

Shaan Puri

I feel like these are going to become excuses for his behavior. No, I'm... there's no excuses. This guy is... he did all of this under his own control and volition. And that's where I stand. Well, it's...

Sam Parr

There's no excuse because they just bragged about it. You know, he tweeted... He tweeted another thing where he goes: > "The best thing I do is take stimulants in the morning and then sleeping pills when I have to go to bed." And then I'll just round this out. I didn't... This was another funny thing. This just... It explains why this is not an excuse: The former co-chief executive of Alameda bought a boat shortly after stepping down in August, only months before the trading firm collapsed. And he named his boat that he bought "Soak My Decks."

Hubspot

yeah yeah you can't

Shaan Puri

**Write this stuff, but do you know, like, one of the most damning things about how FTX collapsed? I feel like this kind of gets lost in the shuffle of a whole bunch of details, and it's overwhelming. But one of the truly unbelievable parts is that they just lost track of $8,000,000,000. He called it "poorly labeled fiat accounts."** **What this actually was, as far as I understand, is that at the beginning of FTX, when they launched the exchange, they were trying to move fast, kind of a scrappy startup thing. They didn't have their own bank account, and he was running Alameda before that. So they thought, "Oh cool, just send the money to Alameda, and then we will give you the credit in your FTX account." They never trued it up. They never moved the money from the Alameda account to the FTX account. It just accrued in the Alameda account, and then they just used it to trade.** **So the money literally never even made it to the bank account of the company itself. That's what he meant when he said, "People are like, did you loan the users money? Did you do this against the terms of service? Did you lend this out or give this away to your other company?" It's like, "No, actually, I never even got it. It went straight to their bank account. I never even realized it. We forgot to connect the link later." So $8,000,000,000 of deposits just went straight to Alameda and never even touched FTX. We were just marking it on the account.** **Yeah, lazy, unorganized, or fraudulent, right? You take your pick. Pick three, as far as I'm concerned. I thought that was crazy. So, you know, these stimulants aren't so stimulating if you feel like you forgot to pick up the $8,000,000,000 that your business is generating.**

Sam Parr

Like, if you get beyond the fact that people are hurt here, which is a big deal, but get beyond that, it's hilarious.

Shaan Puri

you're like it's funny it's funny

Sam Parr

Like... this is... it's... the... Just what's funny is how ridiculous this is. And I fell for it too, but it's wild. This is a wild story.

Shaan Puri

I want to see, like, have you ever seen the movie *Miss Congeniality* where Sandra Bullock goes from this, you know, butch cop to a beauty pageant queen? They transform her. I want to see the version of that for FTX, which is like Sam, this normal-looking guy. They're like, "You know, grow out your hair." He's like, "What do you mean? It's going to look completely disheveled." They're like, "Yes, disheveled equals genius." And they're like, "Hey, when you're walking, turn your knees in." He's like, "Ah, that's a little uncomfortable." They're like, "You need to walk like this."

Hubspot

and they're like hey here's some you

Shaan Puri

Need to put this patch on, and they're like, "Hey, can you start saying things like, you know, this is a 12 sigma event?" He's like, "What does that mean?" They're like, "Don't worry about what it means. It sounds provocative." So they're training him to be this, you know, autistic hero... you know, nerd that everybody's going to believe in.

Sam Parr

he's the type of guy who probably wears a backpack wherever he goes and he doesn't walk he runs he's that type of guy

Shaan Puri

Dude, did you see the clip of him running through the Bahamas? Was he running? It's hilarious! Somebody found it and said there's a clip posted on Twitter. I'm sure your boys at Autism Capital have it on their feed. But basically, it's like SBF on the run, and it's literally him wearing a backpack running. He's doing the run where, you know, most people run like this...

Sam Parr

you put your hands behind your back

Shaan Puri

he just had straight arms and so he was just swinging his

Hubspot

straight arms and running that's all

Shaan Puri

They run in like a penguin, running as fast as he could, just down the street. And they're like, "Where is he going?"

Sam Parr

god that's crazy man this whole story is crazy crazy crazy

Shaan Puri

He came... some more stuff leaked yesterday. He did a random interview with somebody who's a YouTuber with 10,000 subscribers. He decided to give her the scoop. She addressed each of the concerns. She asked, "So, when you guys reopen withdrawals, but only for the Bahamas, where people felt like maybe, you know, the employees, yourself included, and insiders could cash out while everybody else was stuck? There was like 24 hours where people in the Bahamas could withdraw and nobody else. What was that about?" Previously, they had said, "Oh, the Bahamas government ordered us to do this." That was the first lie he had told. Then the Bahamas government came out and said, "We didn't do that. What are you talking about?" So that was kind of debunked. On this call, he just goes, "Yeah, that was a decision we had to make because, you know, it's funny. You don't want to be in a country where everybody's angry at you. So we had to do that just, you know, because FTX is based in the Bahamas. We just didn't want to be in a country where everybody was mad at us." It's like, what? This is literally... you're saying this out loud? Like, that was your reason for this? Like, you didn't want to get...

Hubspot

like beat up basically like dude how

Shaan Puri

you don't wanna get your door kicked in by the government

Sam Parr

How can you have... Okay, so let's get beyond the crime now. This is the stage of a criminal's [process] where you're supposed to shut up. You don't talk. You say: > "I plead the Fifth. Where's my lawyer?" I don't talk. I go silent.

Shaan Puri

going on tour he's going on tour

Sam Parr

He's speaking at a New York Times summit with Zuckerberg and, like, oh, you know, these politicians. I think Mike Pence is speaking there. He's going on tour.

Shaan Puri

I think that's today, by the way. I think he's going on tour, and I don't think he has any idea what he's trying to say because none of it makes sense. None of it sounds good. Both his parents are lawyers, and he's discriminating against himself more. Yeah, both his parents are lawyers, exactly.

Sam Parr

And then he tweets out this dumb stuff where he's just tweeting like letters as a joke. This guy is just... What the hell? You're... You shut up. You don't say a word. Don't say a word. You shut...

Shaan Puri

Up and you... I hope he keeps talking. Keep talking, keep talking, boy. Yeah, keep talking. I just want to hear what you gotta say. Go ahead, build your own trap. That's fine.

Sam Parr

It's crazy, so I had to bring that up. And then another scandal... You want... Can I tell you one more interesting scandal? Sure. This might be less interesting, but it's interesting nonetheless. So we talked about this guy named Liver King a while ago. Do you remember that?

Shaan Puri

Yeah, Liver King. Just for those who don't know, he's the ultimate meathead. This guy looks like a caveman. He's absolutely jacked and he's always eating raw, you know, kidneys from a cow. Like, he's butchering it and eating it.

Sam Parr

So, he basically... The backstory is this guy owns a company called **Ancestral Supplements** or something like that. It's all about liver and meat organ supplements, which I think is great. The people I follow, they're like, "Yeah, that's fine. That's a fine service."

Shaan Puri

you're in

Sam Parr

the demo

Shaan Puri

let's just say

Sam Parr

yeah yeah like I I I guess that's good for you we made that in it

Shaan Puri

Persona, it was called. They're, you know, instead of Joe Smith or Jane Doe, they were like, "Okay, so a Sam Parr is online. How are we gonna talk to him? How are we gonna get this guy to buy our liver tablets?"

Sam Parr

so it came out yesterday that basically this was another more plates more dates thing that more plates more dates this youtuber his name's derek he got a hold of these email exchanges back and forth with a doctor that brian johnson who's the liver king so basically this guy looks huge he's yoked he has 1,000,000 of followers and he makes a $100,000,000 a year on supplements they have these documents these emails back and forth of brian saying hey I'm gonna get popular on social media in the next month or 2 I need to look totally shredded here's the steroids I currently take I spend $15,000 a month and here what else should I be taking and so spoiler alert he's on steroids but that's not the interesting thing he's on lots of steroids and the reason ness is a big deal is for for the past year or 2 he's gone on podcasts and he's explicitly said there's not a chance I'm on steroids no I'm not on steroids I only do this because I eat my liver which you guys should buy too at my website so that's shady but whatever he's on steroids but here's what's interesting I wanted to call out a couple of different things in the emails that he wrote so he says let's dig right in as it relates to my goal I'm the face of several brands including ancestral supplements and I've hired a team to build the liver king brand with a goal of 1,000,000 followers by 2022 I looked it up he had he wasn't even really he had 0 followers he had like single digit 1,000 followers when he when he wrote this in an email and he hit a 1000000 followers before this number before march 22 that's pretty impressive he says I've hired a film crew who's who's living at my house and they're filming they're filming constantly and I got to stay in great fucking shape year round and what's interesting is that he nailed it this guy totally called his shot and he hit it and even though he's a liar I respect that and so he basically says that he goes I live on I live on a fake 15 acres on the lake and have everyone come to me my ranch is 500 acres of paradise I don't go out to eat I don't go bowling I don't go to the movies I stay home and people come to me that was kind of interesting but here's another funny thing that he wrote the doctor asked him all these different questions about like what foods he's allergic to what his current daily routine is what type of foods he's eating and then he says what type of food this is funny what type of food do you like to eat that isn't bodybuilding related none even when I eat sushi I have a sushi chef come over and make it exactly how I want it if I ever have ice cream my my my wife makes a colostrum ice cream made out of 1st milk colostrum I don't know what that is egg yolks vanilla extract and a little maple syrup and then listen to this she goes you should come over and fuck some of this shit up with me doc and and then he says the doctor says how's your mood as you go deeper in your diet can you function and continue with your jobs and deal with friends and family or does it become increasingly difficult to maintain your obligations you know outside your body building goals listen to his response I can do anything I'm unequivocally strong in mind heart and spirit and even though this guy's a liar I kinda dig it I gotta dig this attitude

Shaan Puri

Let's get your moral code straight. Alright, guy, proven liar, borderline scammer for lying about, you know, what was causing his gains. Weirdo. Absolute weirdo.

Sam Parr

absolute weirdo in his daily routine he goes first thing

Shaan Puri

in the morning redeemed himself in your eyes totally redeemed himself no

Sam Parr

Not quite. It's kind of like Lance Armstrong. He cheated, sued people for saying he cheated, ruined people's reputations, but was a real competitor. *Real* competitor.

Shaan Puri

came on the podcast gotta love the guy

Sam Parr

yeah so like

Shaan Puri

you know for us you're good in my books

Sam Parr

Pete, you know, people... you know, my dad used to say, "No matter how thin a pancake, there's always two sides to it."

Hubspot

what a gem yes

Sam Parr

So anyway, it's kind of interesting that this guy says he's spending, by the way, $15,000 a month on steroids. That's... and he goes, "I'll spend whatever. I need to get this done." I just think it's interesting that he had a goal, he called a shot, and he nailed it. That's kind of interesting.

Shaan Puri

Was willing to go all the way and all in, and did it his way. So, you know, there is respect. We do put respect on his name, even though he was a liar and a scammer. That makes sense to me, though. I'm like, I'm with you. Other people might hear that and be like, "What? I don't get it." I totally get it. I'm the same way. By the way, for people who are seeing Sam's camera go in and out of focus, we're just working on the new studio look. We gotta figure out some settings, so just bear with us today. But by the next episode, you'll be totally fine. Alright, so let me give you one while we're on this topic. Well, actually, I want to do two things. Number one, you've said the "more plates, more dates" guy a couple of times now. You know, is that a dog whistle to try to get him to come on? Maybe. Could be, but totally.

Sam Parr

it is I love this guy man

Shaan Puri

But you also tweeted something out the other day, and I think he's a good example. You said something like the following: "To have a great podcast, you need either three factors." I think you said unique/amazing content, unique/amazing delivery, and then the last one is unique/amazing perspective. So, you need to have specific knowledge or insights that the average person doesn't have. You mentioned that you need at least one to have a successful podcast. Two is great, and three would be unbelievable but extremely rare. You got a bunch of replies to this, and I want to first ask you about that. Also, let's use this guy Derek from More Plates More Dates as a case study here. I think he's a perfect example of what you're doing. So, unique, amazing content. Before him, I didn't see any YouTube channels. I'm sure there were some, but nobody was popular. There wasn't a common content category like, "I'm going to make videos speculating, is this dude on steroids? And if so, what roids do I think it is?" That's his entire premise of his channel.

Sam Parr

from a non judgment perspective this guy derek says yeah here's what I use

Shaan Puri

here's my

Sam Parr

blood work

Shaan Puri

He's not trying to take them down. He's just trying to speak honestly about what he thinks. He's like, "Oh, here's my guess. If I'm this dude, I'm looking like this. This is what I'm doing." And, you know, here's the evidence that I'm piecing together to make that claim. So, unique content, check. Unique delivery—his delivery is actually very, very good.

Sam Parr

it's very good because it's

Shaan Puri

Non-judgmental because it's not overproduced. He's not trying to sell you something during the thing, and he's just humorous, laughing about it. He does it without the pretense that other people have. There are others who do this, and they're either judgmental or they're like, "I'm ripping the mask off this scandal; I expose..." But he's just like, you know, the guy will claim he's all-natural, but like, "Alright, sure bro, whatever you say," right? But I don't think so. That's the level of his delivery.

Sam Parr

he and he has a lot of really good phrases like he'll be like oh this guy's looking saucy here

Hubspot

yeah

Sam Parr

He's like, he's sauced to the gills. He just wants to be a little saucy. That's alright. He just has a really funny personality.

Shaan Puri

Funny ways of his delivery are good. I don't even care about steroids; I don't have any interest in them. I will watch his channel because his delivery is so good. He's so likable. When you watch his channel, it's like, "I would be friends with him." It's actually a self-compliment; it's a self-delusion that you think he would be friends with you because the guy just seems like a good dude—a great hang. So I think that's the second point. The third is the amazing perspective he has. He has that because he actually has quite a bit of scientific knowledge, but also some "street science." He's not just straight academic, nor is he just a meathead. He has enough knowledge about the science while also having enough street smarts about what guys actually use when they're doing this stuff and how they say it makes them feel. What do they say are the side effects?

Sam Parr

Dude, he's so good! And you want to know another interesting thing about him? No one knows his last name. I actually tried to Google it, but I only spent 5 minutes. I'm sure I could really find it if I tried harder, but he's done a really good job [of keeping it private]. Everyone just knows him as Derek from "More Plates More Dates," and you can't find a lot of personal information about him.

Shaan Puri

wow that's interesting I didn't know that

Sam Parr

And he records, I think he records every... I think he makes a video every single day. So he makes a video every single day, and he's got 1.5 or 2,000,000 subscribers. It's really good. What's really fascinating is that there are guys like him who don't call themselves journalists with a capital "J", but they really are. You know, these guys are doing investigative journalism that's quite good. It's better than a lot of different stuff out there that's done by the "professionals."

Shaan Puri

Yeah, totally! So, he's great. Okay, so that's a good example. Should we continue the theme of...?

Sam Parr

By the way, for that podcast I quoted, I further said... I go, "Let's do 'All In' for an example. Their delivery is decent." I said it's decent, which I thought was like a compliment, but I was like, "Their delivery is pretty decent. They're not like a comedian, you know? They're not like 'Serial' or some investigative [podcast]." They were...

Shaan Puri

Well, well produced and cut and edited. Or like a unique format that we haven't seen before. It's like, you know, four dudes on a Zoom call.

Sam Parr

Yeah, four guys on a Zoom call, sometimes speaking through AirPods. They're quite funny and charismatic, but they're not like 10 times better at that than other people who are.

Shaan Puri

I'd say it's definitely above average. You know, the intros they do, the kind of ball-busting, and the way they... but that's not 10.

Sam Parr

That's not 10 times better than the other people who are of that magnitude. I'm comparing them to... like the other people who are doing great. Yep, it's maybe better, it's maybe worse than some, it may be better than a lot. And then what else did I say? I said their delivery was... decent. Their content, like the format and everything, that's just normal. It's just... for people who are speaking, it's kind of rare that...

Hubspot

you have well

Shaan Puri

They're talking about current events, which is not like super unique.

Sam Parr

it's not

Shaan Puri

super content angle right

Sam Parr

That in itself is not the unique part, but the thing that makes it amazing is that it's them. It's four people who are typically incredibly successful; potentially some of them are billionaires. They sit down every week and talk about all types of stuff in an unfiltered way. That is ten times better than most things that are trying to become that, and that's why they're awesome. People, including Jason—I think Jason, one of the hosts, thought I was insulting him. I'm like, "No dude, this is a compliment." I said, "It's like saying LeBron is good at a lot; he's such a great basketball player, but maybe he's not the best at blocking shots or whatever." Yeah, and people got mad at me and were trying to pick a fight, and that was not my intention. To me, I was complimenting them.

Shaan Puri

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I thought you were complimenting them, but you have a way with words where you'll add a little pause after a word. You'd be like, "It's decent." And that kind of sounds like, you know, like there's... you gotta watch the periods, dude. The periods totally change the tone. Like, if you're using a period...

Sam Parr

it's fucking twitter I have like a 190 characters

Shaan Puri

And you used one of them on a... And then, you know, that thing that adds the tone, right?

Sam Parr

I did not mean it that way I did not mean it that way

Shaan Puri

But you also doubled down after he was like, you know, whatever. He put that "I took that personally" meme up there. You're like, "You know, I said what I said." It's decent. Oh, I didn't double down.

Sam Parr

I don't backtrack. I'm like, "Dude, yeah, your delivery's pretty good. You're not like Theo Von; you don't say the most funny shit on earth. You say pretty great stuff." But whatever, that's my... [opinion].

Shaan Puri

Sam's the kind of guy that doubles down on a 17 in Vegas. He's like, "Whoa, Sarah, are you sure?"

Hubspot

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Sam Parr

I think

Hubspot

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Shaan Puri

Alright, so I have one that's not in the category we did: SPF liar, probably fraud, scammer, whatever. We did "Liver King," liar, probably scammer, probably allegedly, whatever. This is not that, but I am calling this **the curious case of Katie Hahn**. That's right... music for the sound effects, that music.

Sam Parr

what was that music

Shaan Puri

That's my new, like, X-Files style music. Whenever we're getting into a little case that makes me say, "How does this work?" So, how do you...?

Sam Parr

spell this woman's name I wanna Google her while you're talking

Shaan Puri

Katie, like Katie as in Katie Hahn. Okay, so you know, I think you probably know of her. She seems like a great person. Her backstory is kind of like this: she went to Stanford Law and then worked for the government. I forgot what her job title was; she was like a federal prosecutor or something. Let me find my notes here. So, she goes to Stanford Law, then she spends a decade as a federal prosecutor for the Department of Justice (DOJ). At one time, she created the government's cryptocurrency task force. We know her because she was involved with, or helped after the fact, with the Silk Road case. The Silk Road was that website where people were buying and selling drugs. You could buy a lot of crazy stuff on there, including assassination attempts. They eventually took down Ross in your neighborhood in San Francisco. After that, they had all this Bitcoin because Silk Road was using Bitcoin for most of the purchases. So, she's involved in that case. That's kind of how she got on my radar. She did a great interview with Tim Ferriss where she talked about that story. I hear that story, and it's kind of amazing. This person was just grinding it out as part of the government, and that was the impression I had of her: this awesome civil servant. So, imagine the look on my face when I hear that Katie Hahn just purchased a $41,000,000 home in Atherton. $41,000,000 home! What's going on here, Katie Hahn?

Sam Parr

what do you how much does she have to be worth

Hubspot

to buy

Sam Parr

41 living dollars

Shaan Puri

Go to the DOJ [Department of Justice]. The average salary for a federal prosecutor is between $94,000 and $150,000. Okay, so she worked there for 10,000 years? No, okay, that's not it.

Sam Parr

so what

Shaan Puri

what's what's been going on so katie hahn at one.

Sam Parr

She with that doj seller she could pay her property taxes for a month

Shaan Puri

Yeah, the gardener is like, you know, her property is making that so-so. But, you know, she made a switch. So she did the decade there and she's doing these, like, I forgot to call them, like the RICO cases. It was like these crazy drug cases, cartel stuff. Then she makes the leap and all of a sudden she's a VC. So she becomes a VC at Andreessen Horowitz in 2018. She joins as a general partner. The year before that, in 2017, she was named to the board of Coinbase. That's interesting, I guess. Like, you know, they wanted a diverse board member who had a different background. Coinbase has spoken...

Sam Parr

you can't you can't say that she's a I mean that's bullshit

Shaan Puri

No, I'm saying like her work history. She's not a business person; she's from the regulatory side of things. That's her expertise. So, that's a good person to have on your board—somebody who is part of the government's cryptocurrency task force. I definitely see the value there, but how much value? That's what I gotta ask. That's the question of the day: how much value, and was this too much value? Okay, so she joins the board, and on the day of her IPO, it was worth $73,000,000. That was April 14, 2021, and she sold pretty much at the top. She was selling at that price, and then she sold even more as it went up to like whatever $300 something dollars a share. It's currently trading for far less than that. So, let's see what Coinbase is trading at today. Coin stock price... I think that's $40 something bucks a share. Yeah, $41 a share. So, she's also at like the whatever $3.80 range.

Sam Parr

almost 10 tops

Shaan Puri

So, sells the absolute top. But the question I have is, I'm not saying she did anything wrong or illegal. Yeah, more power to you. What I don't understand is, why did this person get $100,000,000 for sitting on the board? Is that not an outrageous number? So, like, there I don't think there's any wrongdoing, but goddamn, how did somebody make so much for doing so little? Like, a board seat, you know? A board member does not work very hard for the company. A board member does not usually create this much value.

Sam Parr

I thought board members typically got like 250,000 a year like $350,000 a year

Shaan Puri

Yeah, that's the lowest board compensation. So what I want to know is, why did this board member get $100,000,000? I don't know if you know the answer to this, but that is why it is the curious case of Katie Hahn. What?

Sam Parr

Well, you're asking this question. It sounds like a leading question. It seems like you have an opinion, but keep in mind I'm looking just at her opinion.

Shaan Puri

I'm a tell me about these things I I

Sam Parr

She founded a thing called Hahn Ventures, which has a $1,500,000,000 fund that's focused on Web 3.

Hubspot

and I

Shaan Puri

Believe she's the only partner. So, the fees on that alone—2% management fees for a venture capitalist—is typical. Her $1,500,000,000 fund, and if she's the only partner, I think that's $30,000,000 per year that she takes as her management fee.

Sam Parr

that's fucking crazy

Shaan Puri

And when she was at Andreessen, again, it's hard to know the exact specifics here, but the A16Z crypto fund was $7,000,000,000, I think at the time. There were 5 general partners. So, I don't know exactly if that number is the total after Coinbase's exit or if that's what they raised. I haven't gone that far in, but I think it is believable that she was making $30,000,000, that she's made $30,000,000+ off of her slice of the Andreessen crypto fund before she left. By the way, I think her portfolio there, Coinbase was the only one that has exited. There's Arweave, there's Autograph, there's Royal, there's a bunch of others. But these are early, early bets, right? Because we're only talking 4 years ago when she joined the fund. So, it's kind of crazy that somebody made $100,000,000+ off of their board seat.

Sam Parr

after working for the government for 10 years

Shaan Puri

After, yeah, and so I don't know what's going on. I don't know if this is like a very fancy way of buying favor in Washington. It's like, "Hey, we're gonna get this veteran who's super plugged in." You know, great! She gets this really, really, really, really, really strong compensation. And, you know, she's gonna make sure that the right people think favorably about Coinbase. I don't know if it's that. I don't know if this is standard. I don't think this is standard for what board members make.

Sam Parr

yeah that's crazy

Hubspot

just very

Sam Parr

curious what's going

Shaan Puri

on there

Sam Parr

did you look at the other board members

Shaan Puri

The during the S-1, you could see kind of who the other major shareholders were. I didn't see any of the other board members that were there, but I could be wrong. So, there's Marc Andreessen and Fred Wilson; those are the investors. Maybe, yeah, I mean hers is just outsized. I don't know who Gokul Rajaram is. I think he might have been another board member. Let me see, Coinbase. I don't know if he worked there or if he's a board member, but he had, you know, whatever he had was 600,000 shares. Hers was 5,900,000 shares. So, you know, just suddenly like a step higher. Yeah, he was also a board member. For some reason, she got 10 times more in her stock grant than this dude Gokul did.

Sam Parr

this is yeah this is wild

Shaan Puri

things that make you say

Sam Parr

I don't I I agree this is a very curious case

Shaan Puri

I'll hesitate; it could be a perfectly reasonable explanation for this. I don't know it, and I would love to hear it. I'm not owed any explanation either. I just thought this was weird because I'm like, "How the heck did this person, who worked in the government for almost their whole career except for the last 3 years, buy $40,000,000 pads?" That doesn't make sense to me. Then I looked at where the money came from, and that didn't make sense to me either. But again, that might be my own limitation of knowing how this stuff works.

Sam Parr

have you ever spoke to her or like heard her speak

Shaan Puri

I've heard her speak. Yeah, she's... you know, whatever. She tells cool stories. I heard her on a couple of podcasts. She's invested... she's co-invested in some of the crypto deals that I'm in. So I'm not saying, like, you know, she's a bad investor. If she is, then I probably am terrible. So, you know, I don't know much about her from that angle. But there was one other funny thing. So there's this guy, Liron Shapira. I don't know if that's... I don't know if I said that right, but have you seen this guy on Twitter?

Sam Parr

no he's a fan of the show

Shaan Puri

So, he listens to the show. He is also the number one crypto skeptic on Twitter. His mission is basically to expose the fallacies, scams, and hypocritical things about Web 3. Four days ago, he tweeted this out: "OpenSea's large investor, Katie Hahn, claims that NFTs have many uses and invites us to check out her latest purchase." Okay, let's check. He goes to her profile on OpenSea, and it's called "Wrapped Moon Cat." It's just this purple cat. It's like, okay, that not only has no uses, you know, besides just being a funny little purchase, but her account has zero activity since June. If you aren't using NFTs yourself, maybe you shouldn't keep investing in the space. He kind of called her out on that. Now, of course, she could have other wallets or whatever, but it is a little strange that, you know, the kind of lead investors in OpenSea, the biggest NFT platform, don't seem to have much activity on the platform. So, it's a little...

Sam Parr

Bit beyond this woman... I've... Do you like look at Zillow and read the real estate trade magazines? You know, anytime someone buys like a $50,000,000 home or $20,000,000 home, I love reading that stuff. Do you ever read that stuff?

Shaan Puri

Yes, and actually, I have a call to action. I want to know or help start one of these Instagram accounts that features baller homes that ballers buy. I just want to see celebrity businesspeople and the homes that rich people are buying. Who are they? How are they rich? And what do their homes look like? I think there should be a great Instagram account for this that I want to follow, and I don't know if that exactly exists. So, somebody start that, please, and message me.

Sam Parr

I love that stuff, and I always think about the economics of that. Like, how do people afford the... I don't know, $30, $40, $50, $60 million homes? I want to know what the monthly nut is each month. Do you have to have a full-time staff member just to maintain this?

Shaan Puri

kind of home there's no mortgage right I don't that's not a mortgage the you know

Sam Parr

I don't know what are you doing

Shaan Puri

are you putting like getting like a $40,000,000 mortgage like I don't I don't

Sam Parr

I think... know, that's why I want to know. I want to know what the tax bill is. I want to know how they actually care for it. I want to know what their liquid position is and how they finance it. Do they pay cash? What do they do when you have a $40,000,000 home? Do they view it, for example, as an asset? When I think of owning a home, I don't necessarily think of it as an asset. I think of it as a store of value because homes typically don't grow much more than inflation. So, do they view that as an asset? Do they take care of it like an asset? I just want to know how they account for it in their net worth. There are so many fascinating things about owning these $40,000,000 to $50,000,000 homes. I want to know all about how they work, and frankly, I just want to have a huge payday. I don't know any...

Shaan Puri

of that shit I just wanna have one

Hubspot

like do you

Shaan Puri

tip the do you tip the line landscape or do you not tip it

Hubspot

I was like dude who cares about

Shaan Puri

All these details, man. I want to know: who bought it? How'd they get rich? What does it look like? And how can I get one? Those are my four questions.

Sam Parr

I'm about that too, man. I'm always curious about how that works because in New York, you see it like crazy. You see people buying $20-30 million homes, and it's shocking how many of them there are. There's so many of them! I read this blog called *Mansion Global*, and they always talk about different mansions being bought and sold in New York. There's just so many of them. In San Francisco, there's not that many $20-30-40 million purchases. In New York, it's constant, and it's like... it's a fucking condo! It's crazy.

Shaan Puri

Yeah, I think I told you this once, but when I was working with Michael Birch, he put up his house in San Francisco for sale. I think it's still on the market right now.

Sam Parr

I think it was his house for like 3 years right

Shaan Puri

I think I was at his house. He's like, "Yeah." I was like, "You're gonna sell this place?" And he's like, "Yeah, I'm gonna sell it." I was like, "So you bought this for like $30,000,000?" He's like, "Yeah, it was like the highest purchase at that time, I think, in San Francisco." I was like, "Whoa! Was that like... did you overpay? Are you gonna have to sell? Are you gonna take a big loss on this or what?" He's like, "No, I don't think so." Then, when he came out, he listed it for $50,000,000, which it didn't sell.

Sam Parr

at that

Shaan Puri

But, you know, that's kind of like the range here. I was like, "How do you even sell a house like this?" You know, like what's the process? Do you just put it on the MLS? Like, do you have open houses?

Sam Parr

houses on sundays I know that's a big problem

Shaan Puri

He was handing out flyers and said, "No, actually, this is one of the ideas I wanted to talk to you about. I'm thinking, what if we made a service for buying and selling homes that are worth $10,000,000 or more?" He's like, "Because it breaks the traditional model. You shouldn't pay 6% commissions to an agent when the purchase price is $20,000,000 or $30,000,000."

Sam Parr

is that how much they pay

Shaan Puri

well that's just like the the standard real estate model is that right is the 5 or 6%

Sam Parr

And Michael goes and tries to negotiate. They're like, "You know, our paperwork already says 6%. It's going to be a hassle to change that."

Shaan Puri

I'm going to have to hire somebody for the social media. It's like, "Yeah, okay." You know, like, what are you talking about here? It's like, look, I...

Sam Parr

didn't make up the rules I just thought them up and wrote them down you know like so

Shaan Puri

He wanted to create a service specifically for selling homes that are $10,000,000 or more. It's a flat 1% commission, that's it. We could do 1% on a $20,000,000 home, and it pays for the actual service provided by the person handling the sale. Secondly, it's one broker, not two. So, you have a situation where you're basically taking both sides. He mentioned no open houses because people just want to walk through his house; they're not serious buyers. So, basically, anyone who participates in the open house tour would need to be almost like an accredited investor. You would need to show that you are capable of buying homes of this caliber in order to gain access to the open houses.

Sam Parr

I actually toured michael's home I was one of those people I I I saw that they were having finger sandwiches

Shaan Puri

mud all up on your shoes

Sam Parr

Yeah, like, "Oh, free sandwiches!" When I got there, I was kinda pumped like, "Yeah, sandwich!" Then I was like, "What? No ham?"

Shaan Puri

So, he's like, you know, that's one difference. Then he's like, the broker's commission on top of the 1% is just a tip based on how you felt the service was. If you felt like you were taken really good care of, then you can optionally tip. He had this whole plan, and he's like, "Figure out how many of these houses sell a year." So, I did some analysis and I was like, "Oh, there's... you know, I forgot it now. It was like 7 or 8 years ago, but it was thousands." Yeah, it was like, you know, 5,000 or 10,000 homes like this sold per year. Okay, so you back that out. The average home, let's say, is $1,500,000 that's in this category. So, that's times $100 million. It was like in the hundreds of millions of sales, you know? So then your 1% commission would be... x. And like, "Okay, how would you take the market?" Oh, these are all your friends. Okay, that makes sense. We could get the first 100 people just out of your network. That makes sense. We never pulled the trigger. I think we should have.

Sam Parr

because I thought it was

Shaan Puri

A great idea! In fact, I had a whole brainstorm with him. It was just like, "Yo, what are the 1% problems?" Tell me about them. I got to say, my problems sound like I can't even speak about them because they sound too privileged. They exist, and nobody's talking about them. You know, we could build for them and all the people that are in that group. So, you could kind of help bring those people on board with whatever service we create. So yeah, that was, I think, a good brainstorm in general.

Sam Parr

Dude, I think that's awesome. I can't decide if that would be a pain in the ass to work with or if it would be the best person to work with, you know? Like, are they... are they not going to nickel and dime you? If not, then yeah, it could be awesome.

Shaan Puri

Well, I don't think it's necessarily about nickel and diming, but this is how I feel about all businesses that are based around influencers. It sucks doing an influencer-based business because you are pretty much always groveling at the feet of these people. They should take your offer; it's in their best interest. But they are just busy, they have too many offers, and they don't care. Even if they say yes, they'll just flake on you. When it comes time to post the thing, it'll be half done, and you're like, "Oh my God, this is like... we really needed this to work. This was really important to our business." It's so difficult to do stuff like that. Of course, when it works, it works, right? You build one of the whiskey brands with Conor McGregor, or you do the Honest Company with Jessica Alba. You could make it work for sure, but I hate influencer-based businesses. I remember talking to a buddy who was building something around Twitch when we were both in the Twitch space. Twitch is basically like... you know, there are 100 streamers that matter, and if you can get them, everybody else will follow. If you can't get them, it's very hard to make stuff work. I was talking to him over dinner, and I was like, "What about this strategy? What about this strategy? What about this pivot?" He looked me in the eye, and I'll never forget it because I heard this, and I ended up pivoting my business because this just rang in my ears for so long. He goes, "I'm just tired of sucking dick, man." I had just met this person; I didn't know him well. This was only a business meeting, and he said this to me. I was like, "What?" I asked him what he meant, and then I immediately knew exactly what he was talking about. It was the thing I've been doing for the last year, which was basically trying to get these 20 people who really, really mattered to just watch our demo, to just say yes, to just partner with us, and to just agree to take our money to promote our thing. I was like, "He's right. I hate this. I really, really hate this." We pivoted like three months later because...

Sam Parr

I was like this is terrible

Shaan Puri

this is a terrible style of business to build

Sam Parr

Well, thank you, Katie, for bringing us to this topic: the curious case of Katie Hahn.

Shaan Puri

yeah

Sam Parr

do I need to

Shaan Puri

play the sound again no okay

Sam Parr

dude you're gonna get dms about this so well I'm sure we're gonna have a follow-up

Shaan Puri

dude andre said already hates me man

Hubspot

they

Sam Parr

why do they hate you

Shaan Puri

Mark blocked me again. He blocked me first for the Clubhouse thread, which by the way, not only did he block me, but where's my apology?

Hubspot

I was right I called that shit that was a

Shaan Puri

Bad investment. It was going to fail; I called it. Okay, so he blocked me, then he unblocked me for some reason. I got a second chance, a second lease on life.

Sam Parr

Why did he unblock you? Just think about that. What was going through his head? Like, what was he going through in his settings and be like...?

Shaan Puri

Oh, let's just say someone in the firm sends the post, the thread. He clicks it and says, "You can't view this. You have blocked the person." He's like, "Oh, fuck it. Alright, unblocked this person." So yeah, unblocked. That's the only thing I can imagine how I would even show back up on this radar.

Sam Parr

I don't know maybe just laying in bed going through his blocks like oh I miss him

Shaan Puri

the one that got away

Sam Parr

Yeah, like I wonder what he's doing now. I wonder what he's up to now. Do you think we're staring at the same moon right now?

Shaan Puri

He's looking at the 65 Indians who work for him and he's just thinking, "I just need one more. I just want more. None of these are right."

Sam Parr

none of them are above 6 feet tall I want a 6 foot tall one

Shaan Puri

So, I don't know what happened, but he unblocked me, and then the other day, he blocked me again. I don't know what I did. I'm not even mentioning this guy. I think what I did was I put out that tweet that said, "You know, this year I've realized that a lot of the things I thought were smart money, and you could just kind of follow them or just assume they know what's going on, like there is no smart money in this space." FTX, we ever really thought, was the quant geniuses, quant genius traders, and the fucking dummies and scammers. And then, you know, Chamath... oh, Ben, SPAC, this is the IPO 2.0. Oh, this must be great. Oh, nope, SPAC collapsed. You know, these are all...

Sam Parr

but you didn't mention him

Shaan Puri

lipstick on a pig I did mention him

Sam Parr

oh I didn't see that you specifically named him

Hubspot

no no I didn't

Shaan Puri

Name: Marc Andreessen. I just said A16Z, like, "Oh, got it." Whatever. I wasn't trying to pick on anybody. I was just saying, like, what would be the most prestigious names also make a bunch of bets that don't work out. That's part of their business model. This is what I was trying to say: it's part of their business model. You can't look at any one bet in isolation and say, "Well, if they did it, it must be good, must be smart, must be like they must know something I don't know." In fact, trust your own gut, trust your conviction, trust your research. Because you don't know their whole portfolio, you don't know their strategy, and they're going to make mistakes. That's part of venture investing. So, you know, don't just assume because the really smart person who you like to listen to invests in this, that doesn't mean it's a good investment necessarily.

Sam Parr

Do you think that being an asshole on the internet... like, I don't think you and I are assholes, but both of us sometimes get into it with other people. Do you think that we tip our toes... yeah, just a tip? Do you think that this is going to bite us in the butt, or that it helps us? Should we just go the nice guy route? I could think of a few guys who are assholes, and it's paid off for them. Or not assholes, but like Scott Galloway and Jason Galcanos. Both cause a fuss; they get into it with people, and I would say it's been a net positive for them. There are a few other examples where I could say it has ruined their reputation. But do you think... and then there are other guys, like Jason Lemkin, who did it ruin their reputation? I don't know. I mean, there are people I follow where I'm like, "Oh, you're just a joke." Not even... I don't even want to mention them because I just don't want to do that. But there are people who...

Shaan Puri

I can't think of them

Sam Parr

No, I definitely can. I'll tell you off-air, but like, I messaged you the other day where I'm like, "This person, I just... they're working through some stuff."

Shaan Puri

okay gotcha

Sam Parr

And anyway, I just think that sometimes it hurts their reputation. But other times, it's definitely been beneficial. There are guys like, you know, who Jason Lemkin is? I love Jason. He does SaaStr.

Shaan Puri

yeah he's great

Sam Parr

He's just generally a positive person, and I never hear him go out of his way to disrespect people. Another guy, Nathan Barry, goes out of his way 9 out of 10 times to not disrespect people. The one time he called someone out, which was Gumroad, I was like, "Oh, well Gumroad must be bad because Nathan is never rude." Do you think that being rude has its benefits, or are you going to try and be like the nice guy?

Shaan Puri

Both, I think being a kind of call-out artist has its benefits. It's very addictive. You could be right, you could be wrong; it kind of doesn't matter. You're provocative, people will pay attention to you, and people will fight with you. It definitely draws attention. So, if your goal is attention, it definitely works. Having said that, it doesn't really generate a lot of positivity in your life and doesn't add a lot of value typically. Sure, unless you go full-on like a WWE character, which is what I consider Sky Galloway to be. They just say, "Hey, I'm going to take this super strong stance, I'm going to argue it," and like, you know, if I'm wrong, the truth or accuracy is sort of secondary. I wouldn't say it's not important, but it's secondary. The more important thing is to have strong opinions that get shared, that get read, that get commented on, and that cause a debate. Because that's what drives clicks, that's what drives followers, things like that. So, strategically, I see that advantage. Life, you know, like life evaluation, I think it's kind of a net negative. But I also don't think you should just be like Mr. Nice Guy. We know a bunch of people that are like this; they will talk mad shit in text messages to us, but then publicly, they'll suck up to those people. That is disgusting to me. I actually judge that the worst. I would rather just speak my mind, but sometimes realize that, like, you know, A, I'm wrong more often than I'm right, and B, sometimes it's just not worth the hassle. You just don't need to say anything at all; you could just kind of go on with your day.

Sam Parr

is there any time that you've been rude to someone on the internet and you've lost sleep over it

Shaan Puri

no no really can't say that's what's happened

Sam Parr

that's crazy to me that is crazy to me

Shaan Puri

that you do that you you feel bad you feel guilty or something or what what happens

Sam Parr

yeah sometimes I'll say something to someone and I'm like oh man I I I was too rude I I came off bold or

Shaan Puri

I'll question it. Like, I'll say, "That was maybe a bit much," or like, "You know, I should've just stayed out of it," or whatever. But I don't... like, "I lose sleep" just sounds so serious. For example, when I wrote that Clubhouse sound...

Sam Parr

that serious

Shaan Puri

When I wrote that Clubhouse start, I remember getting a message from someone I respect and admire. This person is super smart and loosely affiliated with the project. They said, "Oh man, this Twitter thread... I'm torn. On one hand, amazing storytelling, and I think you might be right. On the other hand, I don't really like tearing down a startup. Startups are small, fragile things. I don't really like tear downs in general; we should be building each other up." But, you know, this was super interesting the way you wrote it. I was like, "Yeah, I think that's right. I think that's really fair." I have nothing against them. I felt like I wanted it to succeed; I was not rooting for it to fail or anything like that. I just thought, "This is what might happen based on my previous experience in the space." I thought this is how it might play out, and I just wrote it. I just sent it and thought, "Oh, you know, there's something to that." Even though I know I could make it my thing to be the teardown guy, I don't like where that leads me.

Sam Parr

right right right

Shaan Puri

That's a... I don't want to corner myself in that area. So, you know what? Like, let's just... what I'll often do is I'll say it and I'll just say, "Let me see how that goes. Let me see how I feel about that." Maybe later I'll say, "You know what? I should have just stayed out of it," or "I shouldn't have said that," or "That was too harsh," or whatever. And okay, lesson learned. But I just sort of move on from it. I don't really like, you know, dwell on it. It's like I'm okay floating. You know, like it's a trial balloon. It's like, "Let me just put that out there." I'll do this with ideas all the time too. I'll be like, "I want to do X. Anybody want to work on this with me?" Then people will DM me, and I'll be like, you know, after I see how kind of like the first three days went and I kind of slept on the idea a little bit, like, "No, I'm just not doing that." I think people find that very strange. But for me, I'm like, "I don't know, this is like an experimental platform. I'm not... like, I don't know, it's not that serious." It's okay to like say something and change your mind, you know, based on further reflection or information. That's okay.

Sam Parr

Like when you tweet out that you're gonna put X amount of your net worth into crypto, and then someone automatically wrote an article about it, and you're like, "Well, you know... it's a discussion."

Shaan Puri

No, no, I did that one, but there's a discussion. Anything like this happens all the time. People could tell you when they buy, but they don't usually tell you when they sell, or they don't tell you if they hold, right? They don't tell you in either direction. So, people make a whole lot of assumptions about things. Like, you know, somebody told me—I remember somebody told me the stock was great, and then it turned out to be dog shit. I was like, "Oh man, we got busted on that one." He's like, "No, I sold it at the top." I was like, "Dude, where was my message for that?"

Hubspot

you know

Shaan Puri

you only told me the buy part

Sam Parr

Alright, I think that was a lively discussion. Was that the pod, or do you want to do one more?

Shaan Puri

no that's the pod let's I have a bunch of other topics but yeah that we had

Sam Parr

To save them for Monday, we have a bunch of cool people. We have Austin Reif from Morning Brew coming on. Formerly my nemesis, now one of my great friends, he's going to come on.

Shaan Puri

The cool people that are coming on... got him! We have a bunch of cool people, know this by the way: Austin, Sahil. These are our friends. We make fun of each other all the time, and you know, it's just a competition. It's about who can get the right zing in on the other person at the right time.

Sam Parr

We have Austin. Do we have anyone else interesting coming up? We have the founder of Whoop coming on.

Shaan Puri

We're going to do another Millie Millie Awards where we have our end-of-year awards with Andrew Wilkinson. You know, it's a three-year tradition now, and I think that's kind of the most popular episode of the year. So, that one's coming up.

Sam Parr

And then early next year, we're having the return of **Deer Deck**. Oh my gosh, he's coming back! Dude, Rob's been on a tear. I... I think Jonathan booked him. We got in a little bit early on his podcast journey. I take a lot of pride in that. He's been on... he was on Impulse the other day, and I watch all of them. Man, he's inspiring. The guy's awesome.

Shaan Puri

he's great

Sam Parr

he's the real deal

Shaan Puri

alright cool I'm looking forward to that

Sam Parr

alright that's the pod