Can You Get Rich with A Blue Collar Hustle? | My First Million Q&A (#457)
Quirky Businesses, College Regrets, and Deal-Making Wisdom - May 18, 2023 (almost 2 years ago) • 01:12:19
Transcript:
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Sam Parr | I went to school at **Belmont University**, and it was like a Southern Christian university that had low standards.
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Shaan Puri | yeah that's amazing what it says on their website too | |
Sam Parr | That it says, "A home of mediocrity, mediocre people, exceptional prices."
Alright, we're live! We're doing a Q and A session. We decided this kind of last minute.
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Shaan Puri | It's like when a substitute teacher comes in and they roll out the TV on the trolley. They're like, "Hey guys, today, you know what? I decided I want a day off." Oh no, no, no, sorry! I wanted you guys to watch this movie.
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Sam Parr | no it works out because frankly I think people like this | |
Shaan Puri | and we like the movie too it works it's a win win | |
Sam Parr | And so, yeah, we have to do very little work, and people like it. Let's just get right into it. We're going to keep each question at around 3 minutes, so you don't have to worry about me going over.
It's Sean, let's do it. Ben, what do you got? Let's do a little Q and A.
So basically, the background is we both tweeted out, "What questions do you have?" and we got a bunch of them on the tweets. We'll see where we go. I think we have like 100 of them, and we selected maybe 10 from each of our Twitter accounts. We'll see which ones are interesting.
Alright, go.
Okay, from someone named Nubet, a pretty basic one: "What is your opinion on sweaty startups?"
Alright, here's my opinion. I think it's cool. I think any way you can get your nut, you get it. That said, that sounds... is that...
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Shaan Puri | a philosophy you've had since you were a teenager | |
Shaan Puri | or what | |
Sam Parr | Yeah, get that nut! I think if you can get it, it doesn't matter which way you get it—just get it. There are lots of examples of everyone succeeding in all different types of industries.
Personally, I think making money digitally is significantly better because it requires close to no capital. In some cases, you can work from anywhere. There have been times I've sent an email from my phone and it's made a whole bunch of money.
I think that it's way harder to make $1,000,000 a year from a brick-and-mortar business than it is digitally. I also think that the "laptop class"—I saw Elon Musk call Tesla headquarters employees the "laptop class"—I think those types of people, of which most of you are, including myself, want to do stuff with our hands.
I think it's significantly better to make money on the internet and then use all your free time to get a hobby. Because if you go and talk to a blue-collar worker, they sure as hell don't want to be there. So, I'd rather be in a situation where I can choose to spend my time doing it the other way versus switching.
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Shaan Puri | In this question, the guy said, "Sweaty startup makes great." This is Nick, our buddy Nick Huber. So, Nick makes great points about not wanting to compete with Stanford grads generating real cash flow and getting rich the slow way. I agree, this might be the best way to go. What do you guys think?
I think this whole Nick is great, and I think you're totally right that however you want to win, win. There are many, many ways to win. If anything, if this podcast teaches you one thing, it's how many different ways there are to win.
But given that there are many ways to win, you better choose the one you really want. For me, I'm like, I might as well choose the one that is most ideal, the most intuitive lifestyle I want. I don't want to worry about the roof damage at my self-storage facility or that the $15 an hour employee called out sick and there's nobody at the front door now to take customers today. I don't want those issues. I'm happy bearing a different set of issues.
So, I think you gotta choose how you want to win. I also think this whole idea of "you don't want to compete against Stanford kids" is like a great sound bite, but it doesn't matter. It's one of these true but not important statements. I used to say this all the time, and it pissed everybody off in the office. I'd say, "That's so true, and it doesn't matter."
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Sam Parr | It's like, "Dude, I just wanna win my high school conference championship." I don't need to worry about you saying exactly.
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Shaan Puri | you know | |
Sam Parr | what I mean like if I get | |
Shaan Puri |
There... I'll get there. Who's doing digital comp like an internet company is like, "God, these wretched Stanford kids keep beating me." It's like, dude, I haven't seen a Stanford kid. Even if I did see a Stanford kid, have you seen those dorks? That's not a problem, like... yeah.
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Sam Parr | give them a wenching and and and push them out the way nerd like you don't have to worry about these guys in most cases | |
Shaan Puri | Still work. Noogies are very effective.
No, I'm just saying it's not the Stanford kids that are a problem. If you fail on the internet, it's because it's a noisy place and you couldn't get anyone's attention. Right? You die of starvation, not murder, when it comes to startups, internet startups.
So if you're failing, it's not because the Stanford kids beat you; it's because the market didn't want what you had to offer.
I don't know, I like sitting behind my laptop. I haven't worn pants in, you know, 450 days. This is the way to live. | |
Sam Parr |
And by the way, you have (or had)... you know, you could talk about it whatever you want, but you've had an e-commerce business which is... have 20% brick-and-mortar? As in, you have like people you gotta go see?
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Shaan Puri | we have physical products we have a warehouse | |
Sam Parr | we have | |
Shaan Puri | things like that more than 20% yeah | |
Sam Parr | whatever it is and then you also did milk road which one was better | |
Shaan Puri | The newsletter that someone else wrote, which we pushed one button to send to 300,000 people, just printed profits from month one. Yeah, that's the one I think I liked the best. The one that, after a year, we were able to sell just like that because there was none of that sweat.
Right? They call it "sweaty startups" for a reason. So, I've done both. The one thing I will say, though, is that real estate has some amazing tax perks. So, that does have that going for it.
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Sam Parr | And we'll wrap it up by saying... and this sounds like I'm making fun of Nick and Cody, both of whom are my great friends. Cody Sanchez, so I'm not. But ask them which one's making more money: the digital stuff or the brick-and-mortar stuff?
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Shaan Puri | right | |
Sam Parr | I don't actually know the truth | |
Shaan Puri | For these sweaty startup guys, you are pretty active on Twitter, and you sell them courses and these online courses.
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Shaan Puri | it could | |
Sam Parr | which I am too | |
Shaan Puri | digital revenue versus that laundromat revenue | |
Sam Parr | Right, so I would ask them which one they think is better, but who knows?
Alright, what do we got?
Alright, next up, we'll take it from here.
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Ben Wilson | The top question comes from someone named Blockmates. They ask, "What's the most interesting business you've seen that didn't take off, and why do you think that was?" | |
Sam Parr | go for it | |
Shaan Puri | So, there was this app back in the day that I saw, and when I saw it, I was like, "This is gonna hit." It was made by these Russian dudes, and it's called **Povio**.
What Povio used to do was different from every other social network. While Facebook was like, "I go to a party, I post an album of photos," and Instagram was like, "Yo, I'm on the go, I'm at a café, I'll take a photo of my cappuccino," it all had this kind of "look at me, I'm kind of bragging about my life" vibe.
I've always said that when a social network hits, it's not because of a feature; it's because of a change in the privacy policy. For example, Facebook was the first time you used your real name on the internet because you would do it with other college kids who went to your same school. That's why Facebook got your real name, your real relationship status, and your real courses to put online.
Twitter was like, "Hey, you don't have to be my friend; you could just follow me." I don't even have to prove you; you just follow me. That's a change in privacy policy. Snapchat changed the privacy policy by saying, "Yo, this is a disappearing photo; that's private."
So, every great social network has a change in the privacy policy. Povio had a genius one: you would request a photo from someone else. I would ping you, and it would open up your phone, going 3, 2, 1, and it would take a picture of whatever you're doing or wherever you're at.
You could kind of be like, "Yeah, it's a way of saying what's up," but the person would default reply with a photo. I was like, "This is genius! They're giving people even more excuses to take random, useless pictures. This is gonna fly!"
Sure enough, on the first college campus, it started to work and it was growing, but then it just kind of faded away. It never really made it. I still believe in this mechanic: if somebody made this app where you would basically be saying "what's up," and they're replying with a photo, pulling the photo from them rather than pushing it online, I think that's kind of a game changer. But I was wrong; it never worked. | |
Sam Parr | I'm looking at their app description and their app page in iTunes. It says that it only has about 5 reviews, so it never took off.
But the funny part is, you know how there are screenshots of the app? It very clearly looks like a kid on the Stanford campus taking a picture. Wait, Stanford's in Palo Alto, but this says Santa Clara. I don't know what's there, but you don't have to worry about those Stanford kids. See, it's no big deal; it doesn't work.
But mine is Dorsey, so it didn't work out. It's "door" then "s-e-y."
I've always wanted to invest in companies that have a good chance of making buying a home online possible. I'm a firm believer that people will end up buying close to everything online. There are only a few categories where that's not the case. It's like hardware; Home Depot still crushes it because you don't buy a screw on the internet.
And homes are another thing that people don't buy online. No one's figured it out yet. This company has not worked yet, and I still think there's an opportunity for a company to work in the space where you can make a purchase of hundreds, thousands, or even millions of dollars on the internet. I think that's going to be a thing.
Do you remember when Mark Cuban bought a jet on eBay? It was all the rage; people freaked out!
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Shaan Puri | I didn't even know this | |
Sam Parr | Yeah, so when he sold his company, Broadcast.com, he became a billionaire. He bought a $50,000,000 Gulfstream jet on eBay, and people were freaking out.
Which, it's not even that... like, that's not even that interesting if you ask me. Well, it's only interesting that it's a big purchase, but like, you know, a jet? If it's the same model, you kind of know what you're going to get, right? And like, the condition is like fair to excellent.
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Shaan Puri | you know | |
Sam Parr | what I mean | |
Shaan Puri | I just asked Google's AI, "What percentage of Home Depot sales are online?" It said 22% of its sales were online. So even Home Depot is selling the majority of its products online versus in-store.
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Sam Parr | If it's revenue, then yeah, I believe that. Because people will order grills, but when you want like a $5 bolt, you usually just go there and buy like 10 of all different sizes, you know what I mean?
See, like which ones actually fit. But yeah, I'm into things that can't be sold or aren't being sold online yet that should be, and I think that homes are one of them.
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Shaan Puri | what else you got ben | |
Sam Parr | alright here we go this is something we've talked a lot about recently but | |
Ben Wilson | what does enough look like for you | |
Sam Parr | you've got a much better answer than I do | |
Shaan Puri |
Just for reference, I put a bullet in and I wrote out what my answer might be like... a blurb. Mine's just like a long, thoughtful thing, and then Sam's... I'll just answer yours for you. It just says, "I don't think there's ever enough." Maybe you explain your point of view, then I'll sound like...
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Sam Parr | An idiot. Why? I thought that there was... like, there have been multiple times in my life where it was like $100,000 or $500,000, and I thought, "I won't worry."
I've hit a lot of different targets, and I still worry. There are times when I worry less for a little while, but... have you ever heard the idea of... have you ever seen— you probably haven't— but there are stories and studies of people who lose a limb. They're pretty bummed for like 6 or 12 months, and then they go right back to being okay.
I feel fine. I think it's the same with a lot of money stuff, where it's like you make the amount that you thought, and then you go back to where you were. I believe that to be true. That's why I said, "Never enough."
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Shaan Puri | well I'll | |
Shaan Puri | say a couple of other other ways I think about this so | |
Sam Parr | yeah come on indian guru | |
Shaan Puri | let me just | |
Sam Parr | that yeah | |
Shaan Puri | I mean do you got your wisdom cups out everybody because I'm about to fill you up | |
Sam Parr | yeah are you gonna do you need to sit like a indian style to tell the story | |
Shaan Puri | Exactly. Let's just take a deep breath in first before I do this.
Alright, so, Vipassana. Paul Graham did this thing where he created Y Combinator, which is basically the most successful company in Silicon Valley besides like Google and Facebook. Then he just retired, left, and moved to the woods in England. He writes code in his cabin with his kids, writes poetry, paints, and goes for walks. I was like, this mother... this motherfucker thinks he's got enough.
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Sam Parr | and I was like you know | |
Shaan Puri | How dare he leave the rat race! All of the rats were shaking our fists, being like, "You get your ass back in here!" I got inspired by that and thought, "Okay, so what is the 'enough' state?" Not money, but what would my version of enough be?
Instead of thinking about what number would feel like enough—because I think that's a trap—I considered, "If I felt like I had enough, what would I want to go do?" Then I thought, "Maybe I could just go do that thing."
Here's what I came up with: I heard this Naval quote, which was, "Retirement is when you stop sacrificing today for an imagined tomorrow." That hit home. What that means is that the moment you do things in your day, the act of doing them is the reward. You're not doing them today, sacrificing for some future payoffs that are going to come. At that moment, you are free.
I realized that the goal is to be free. The goal is to, on a daily basis, do things where the act of doing them is the reward. I'm not doing them for some future rewards. I asked myself, "If I did that, what types of things would I want to do? What types of things are rewarding in themselves?"
Here's what I came up with: I think that having a big podcast is actually the best job in the world. I'm obviously biased here, but I've also tried a bunch of things, and this is the best. If you have a big podcast, that means you're famous, but you're only famous amongst nerds, which is kind of the not annoying way to be famous. It's like all the good parts of being famous without the bad.
You also get rich, but you didn't have to chase money. You get to create content, but you're not like the annoying 24/7 vlogger who's got their phone out and ruins their actual life trying to create content for some audience. With the podcast, we sit here for like 2 hours a week and record, or 3 hours a week and record, and that's it. The other 165 hours in a week, we get to do whatever we want. We don't have to think about creating content. | |
Sam Parr | and we don't have to get hurt while we're doing it like if you watch some of these guys stuff | |
Shaan Puri | What myself and that dumbass YouTuber who crashed a plane on purpose for views and is now going to jail have in common is that you're not competing on an algorithm like TikTok, where you get this hit of fame and then you're forever chasing it.
I bet podcasting is great. You just talk; you're unscripted, you're unedited. You're talking to a friend or somebody you admire. If it's a guest, that seems like the best job in the world.
For fun, I would basically coach a basketball team, like *Mighty Ducks* style. I would want to just chill out and shoot the shit in a writer's room for a TV show or with a comedian. I would also teach at Stanford twice a week.
I think those are the things that I would do for the pure joy of doing them, not for some future rewards. To me, I'll have enough when my day is mostly filled with activities like that.
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Sam Parr | why haven't you tried to get a teaching job or a coaching job | |
Shaan Puri | I haven't put enough attention on it. This question made me think about it and made me realize, "Oh, why don't I just go do that now?"
Often, life is that simple. It's not that there's actually any barrier in the way; it's just that I didn't put my attention on what I actually want.
Oh yeah, okay, I can probably just go get that done.
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Sam Parr | one good excuse is you have young kids so it's like once they go to school maybe that will be a | |
Shaan Puri | yeah but I'm not | |
Shaan Puri | I am a believer in that. I think it's really just a matter of like, I didn't put my focus on what I really want. Okay, then go get it.
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Sam Parr | By the way, there was a good Paul Graham thing. This guy tweeted out, "There are very few second-time founders because anyone smart enough to succeed the first time isn't dumb enough to do it all over again." Paul replied, "Anyone smart enough to succeed the first time is still running that company."
Then our friend Nikita said, "Yeah, I wonder what happened with that washed-up Viaweb founder and what he's doing these days." That was Paul Graham's first thing, and he goes, "Touché, Paul."
So, like, you know, even the smart guys like Paul can get things wrong once in a while. He says he's got enough, but who knows? I actually do believe that he does. However, I think your answer is better than mine. It is about enjoying the experience more.
Whenever I was running my old company, The Hustle, I look back at it and I'm like, "I wish I would have enjoyed that more during the process." But it's a very challenging thing to do. | |
Shaan Puri | Well, I'll just ask you one thing: Are you okay with knowing that you'll never have enough?
Before you answer that, let me put it another way. If you feel like you'll never have enough, that sort of means you're never really free.
The most fun interactions—you know this—are when you meet with somebody and you want nothing from them. You need nothing from them. Those are the best interactions with people. There is no more freeing feeling than just saying, "I don't need you, and I don't want anything from you." I can just be here and have whatever experience I'm going to have.
Versus the opposite, when you want someone's approval, or you need them to like you, or you need them to hire you. Those are the most stressful interactions.
So, to me, I think if you want to be free, you have to believe that there is such a thing as enough.
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Sam Parr | I think you're thinking about it differently than I am.
Let's say that you're an athlete. Let's say that you're a weightlifter, or let's say that you're a comedian like Hasan Minhaj. Is your buddy ever going to be like, "I'm funny enough, I don't need to improve my craft anymore"? I don't think so.
I think he could find a bit of contentment in being like, "I'm on top of my game, I'm doing awesome," and still recognize that he can always get better.
That's kind of when I say it's never enough. If my craft is building companies, that means there's always more that I can do to be better. But that doesn't mean that I'm unhappy or not satisfied with where I am.
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Shaan Puri | fair enough fair enough alright ben let's go to the next one | |
Ben Wilson | if you go back to your college days what is the | |
Sam Parr | one thing you would have done differently knowing what | |
Ben Wilson | you know now that's from sam favor | |
Shaan Puri | So, I was a huge idiot in college. Not even like the cool idiot that was just having fun. I was just being dumb, going to parties, having fun with my friends, and staying out late.
You know, it's like, "Wait, did you love it or are you saying it was bad?" For me, I was just an idiot. I was a do-nothing idiot, and that's the worst kind.
Now that I look back, I'm like, "Wow, college is a gold mine." You can make lifelong friends, meet future business partners... I'm a business junkie. I wish that when I was in college, I had been launching businesses. I had a captive market of students who I understood and could reach. They were literally living in this bubble, waiting to be sold products. I could have been working on my skills then, instead of starting after college.
You know, there are alumni that I didn't realize how powerful it is just to say, "Hey, I also go to Duke. You went to Duke 35 years ago; I go there now." And they're like, "Cool, you wanna hang out?" It's that easy to connect.
So now I look back and I would say I would mine that gold mine. I was just sitting there eating Chick-fil-A on top of a gold mine, and I didn't even really look down and realize what I was sitting on. The only smart thing I did was study abroad, which is kind of a thing you really want to do at that time.
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Sam Parr | In time | |
Shaan Puri | I went to australia | |
Sam Parr | what what you you didn't go to sydney did you | |
Shaan Puri | yeah | |
Sam Parr | yeah man studied I think sydney australia is the greatest city | |
Shaan Puri | on earth | |
Shaan Puri | it's the best place | |
Sam Parr | to be it's the best place to be like a 19 year old | |
Shaan Puri | it's the greatest place on earth | |
Sam Parr | My biggest regret is that I didn't take high school seriously enough to get into some of these amazing schools.
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Shaan Puri | so I | |
Sam Parr | I went to school at Belmont University. It was a Southern Christian university that had low standards. | |
Shaan Puri | yeah that is what it says on their website | |
Sam Parr | Too... is it like a home of mediocrity? Mediocre people, exceptional prices. Back then, it was very expensive. It was such a mediocre thing.
I like when you say you went to Duke. I envy you so much because at least you got to experience that. Even the basketball guys were the best, and a lot of your peers were very, very smart. I bet you met a lot of people. Even though it was in the South, I bet you still met tons of different foreigners, people from New York City, people from California.
I didn't get to meet any of those people, so I regret that. The first Jewish person I met was when I moved to San Francisco at the age of 22. I didn't know... it was just pretty much just white people. I wish I had been around a more global group of people, and that was one of my big regrets.
I also wish that I took seriously the idea that the things you do in college aren't that important. They don't have to be the defining thing that you do. But if you take your hobbies seriously, it's a really fun time to try on different personalities and things like that. So I wish I had taken that more seriously. I probably agree with that about college.
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Shaan Puri | Part of what I thought in college was that the focus should be on your classes and the result would be your grades. But actually, that's completely backwards. The important thing is the people and the environment. That's the one thing you're never going to get back.
If you really want a result and you want to take it seriously, the way to do that isn't to aim for A pluses or to be an amazing chemistry major. It should be about recognizing that this is four years, and after this, you're supposed to figure out a job and pick a career.
You should dabble. You should go and sample, like it's Costco at noon, and try a bunch of different things. Meet a bunch of people who do those things. You should take this time to figure out what you actually like to do.
I wish colleges were oriented like that because they are currently based on the opposite assumption. It's like, "Pick what you want," which implies you must know, and then put your head down and focus. But that's the wrong time to focus; you should be dabbling at that stage.
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Sam Parr | do you have good credit | |
Shaan Puri | I have okay credit I've like I have good enough credit | |
Sam Parr | Dude, I wish I would have. I didn't get a credit card until I was about 24. Then I started my company and I would max it out constantly. I would always pay it off before I had to, so my credit card utilization was always at 100%.
I didn't have a long credit history, and I wish I had a credit card at the age of 18. I would have used it for everything and always paid it off to build my credit history. I don't have the best credit because of that.
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Shaan Puri | What did that come back to bite you? Why do you need your credit so bad? Are you trying to get loans or something? What are you trying to do?
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Sam Parr | When I tried to buy the house that I'm living in now, I couldn't buy it. My wife had to buy it.
1. My credit history wasn't long enough, which is crazy. It wasn't like it was fantastic; I think every once in a while it's in the 600s.
2. Because I'm a business owner, buying a house and getting a mortgage is really, really challenging.
So, I couldn't buy it.
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Shaan Puri | fair enough alright what do we got | |
Sam Parr | alright this next one is have you had | |
Ben Wilson | A deal not going through when close to finishing it... If so, what did you learn to do better? How did your mentality regroup to start the process over?
I'm not sure, but I feel like the sellers are trying to tank this business acquisition, which is supposed to close on May 31st. That's from Mackenzie Reed.
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Sam Parr | this is a great question and the the I inter accidentally interrupted you but he said I feel like sellers are trying to tank this biz acquisition which is supposed to close on 531 I wanna address that but first I had a deal go through I think my nda is up but there's a recent media company that went bankrupt that tried to buy the hustle and we got to a term sheet and it completely fell through or we got to an loi and it completely fell through and and there was like 3 others that I had lined up and it also fell through and I was devastated so I changed my opinion to this like any deal that I have it's going to happen to it will not happen but I will act as if it's going to but just assume it's not going to and then if it does I will be happy because most fall through but to address that last question of I think the seller to try to tank this biz acquisition I had that exact same attitude when I sold the hubspot and I and then one day I just told them I got to know the woman who was I was working with at hubspot and she was like look you don't understand we're worth $20,000,000,000 this deal is really not a big deal to us like this ain't gonna do anything for us I mean it'll do a little something but just so you know we already got like board approval to do it which means I told my boss and that boss told their boss and then that boss reported it to 12 people who are like billionaires and shit and so if this deal doesn't go through all that means all 12 of those people have to like change something and and then more so I'm gonna look stupid and my boss is gonna look stupid and this other boss is gonna look stupid so because we're a big publicly traded company if we say we're gonna do something we're gonna do it not necessarily because of it's it's a logical good deal but because I don't wanna look dumb in front of all my bosses so we're going to do this versus when you sell to a smaller company or like an individual who's got money I do feel they will always try or not always a lot of times they will nickel and dime you or they will try to dock you but I don't necessarily think a lot of times they're trying to ruin something but I do think they will have ulterior motives which is like I'm trying to learn a little bit of information about this company so I could start my own or do all these other things but when you sell to a big publicly traded company I think 9 out of 10 times it's not in their best interest to screw you | |
Shaan Puri | That's a great answer. I'm the same way. I go into every single deal assuming the deal is not going to go through.
As Emmett said to me, "Birds fly, fish swim, and deals fall through." That's what they do. Deals fall through. It is not an outlier, exception, or disaster when that happens.
Oh, a deal did what it does? Deals fall through. That's what they do, baby! Like, what are you worrying about? Sit your ass down. Why are you crying?
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Sam Parr | and that that's how that's my that's | |
Shaan Puri | How I talk to myself when I get emotionally attached to a deal is crucial. Emotional detachment is key.
Alright, well, how do you do that part of it? You need to have a bulletproof mindset before you get into an M&A transaction. It's too late when you're in the M&A transaction to be like, "Alright guys, I'm going to toughen up this brain to be able to operate in a very tricky circumstance where I might get life-changing money or it might all fall through." That's hard to do.
You have to train before that. That's the first thing.
The second thing is, not only do deals fall through, but that's also not fatal when they do. In fact, every deal I've done has had a fall-through moment, if not two. So, that is my rule of thumb: every deal that does close is going to have two walkaways along the way. You're going to walk away, or they're going to walk away. That's probably going to happen twice.
You're going to hit a wall twice before this deal actually happens, where it feels like the deal is dead or it's simply not happening, or there's just a very, very low chance that we get over this hurdle.
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Sam Parr | Have you announced or have you ever mentioned, I'm not sure if it's an NDA, the other two people you almost sold to instead of Twitch?
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Shaan Puri |
I think I've said before, we got pretty far down the road with Facebook. We also had a couple others that were... Facebook, we had that we're... we're like an hour away from accepting the deal and finishing it.
One of the good things that they did tell me was the same thing you just said about HubSpot. So Twitch is owned by Amazon, and the corp dev guy was like, "Look, I'm sorry we've been so slow and I'm sorry we're not the... we can't just give you everything you want in terms of price, but here's the good news: **we will not retrade this deal**," which...
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Sam Parr | is what it's called when you come back you try to get that that's what they told me too | |
Shaan Puri | Negotiation, once everybody's fully emotionally invested in here, like... but actually, now I want to change this.
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Sam Parr | But then you think, like, "Oh, you're just a doctor. Do you tell everyone that their kids are doing great or that they look cute?" You know what I mean? Like, you're just... you're full of it. I had... | |
Shaan Puri | My deal dealer, who’s helping me get through it, confirmed that he was an investment banker. He had done over 100 transactions. He said, "Yep, these guys—both of them, Facebook and Amazon—if they give you an offer, they're solid on that. That will be the deal that goes through. If it doesn't close, it's because you didn't disclose something that you then come out later with, or you changed your mind. It's not gonna be because of them."
That's the good news about these big companies. The bad news is that deals get hung up or delayed for all kinds of terrible reasons. So, you know, I just sort of expect a deal is always gonna go slower than you want. It's most likely gonna fall through, and even when a deal happens, it's gonna break up twice before it happens. That is the rule of thumb.
I got some great advice from Balaji when I was doing the Milk Road sale. We had a couple of offers. One offer was higher in money, and the other offer was about 25% lower. He said, "Okay, well, you're saying you want to take the higher deal. That makes sense, but let me ask you one question: Are both of these deals at the same..." | |
Shaan Puri | Meaning, have they both been... have you been talking about the same amount of time? Have they done the same amount of diligence so far? Have you gone back and forth the same number of times with them?
I said, "No, no, no. The lower deal we've gone all the way through, and this higher deal, where he just came on super fast, they were really eager, and we got the deal done quickly. I was kind of excited; these guys seem really committed because they're moving really quickly here."
He goes, "Okay, so you need to apply a discount. The offer is not 25% higher; in fact, it's probably half as high. Once you apply the discount, if this deal doesn't close or falls through, you're going to turn down an offer that's solid for an offer that might be slightly higher but hasn't gone through yet."
He's like, "You need to apply a discount. If I'm honest, if I'm discounting this, it's at least 50% based off of just the normal way that M&A deals work. This deal will not be the exact deal that closes, if it closes at all."
That was very sage advice, and it ended up playing out exactly as he said. We tried to go with the higher offer, and then sure enough, more stuff came out of the woodwork that gave us hesitation. We realized, "Look, this is not as solid as we initially thought. We can't just take them at headline numbers; we have to take into consideration the ability to close and the credibility to close." That changed the calculus.
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Sam Parr | And the way you get around that is you say the bad things up front. I think, as best as you can, you say anything that will ruin it as early in the process versus as late in the process.
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Shaan Puri | this | |
Shaan Puri | Was great advice you gave me. You gave me this advice when we were going through the milk grid process. You said, "Here's what you're gonna do," because I was going to dinner with them.
I said, "You said here's what you're gonna do. You're gonna go there and you're gonna say the following: 'Awesome, sounds like we're all excited. Now I'm gonna tell you every reason you should not buy this company. I'm gonna show you every skeleton in the closet now to save ourselves some pain later. If anything here scares you, I'm happy to either explain it or if it just doesn't work, then we can know now.'"
I was like, "Well, that's the opposite of how I would have naturally approached it." So, tell me more. I did exactly that.
After the deal went through, we did a postmortem. Like, "Hey, that's how you know these buyers are smart. They're like, 'What could we have done differently in our buy?'" I said, "Same. What could we have done differently in the sale?"
They were like, "One of the best things you did was at that dinner when you just told us anything that was bad about the company. You proactively said, 'Here's all the skeletons in our closet or anything that might look ugly to you.' That built so much trust for us."
He said, "From there, we weren't even worried about those things because it built so much trust."
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Sam Parr | it's a very selfish thing you say | |
Shaan Puri | Do it in a non-manipulative way. You can't actually do that and then leave out the real skeleton. That... that’s like the opposite of trust. So, that definitely worked and got confirmed on the...
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Shaan Puri | but it's | |
Sam Parr | It's a win-win scenario. You get the deal done hopefully faster than slower, and it also makes them trust you. | |
Shaan Puri | it should be trusted | |
Shaan Puri | Which is, you find out earlier that this shit's not gonna work and you move on. You don't waste three months of time, you know, dragging it out when you could've known that upfront if Boats had been more honest.
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Hubspot | I agree, our software is the worst. Have you heard of HubSpot?
See, most CRMs are a cobbled-together mess, but HubSpot is easy to adopt and actually looks gorgeous.
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Shaan Puri | I think | |
Sam Parr | I love our new CRM. Our software is the best: HubSpot. Grow better!
Alright, Ben, what do you say?
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Ben Wilson | alright next question is do you have any updates to sarah's list or any new additions | |
Sam Parr | So, Sarah's list is standard for my wife because at this point, it's just its own name.
Basically, we made a list of companies where you could join and have a safe job, meaning you're hopefully not going to get laid off like you would at a 10-person startup or go out of business. You can still get paid a lot in salary and have benefits like maternity and paternity leave.
Also, your stock... I think our requirement is a good 10x.
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Ben Wilson | is it | |
Shaan Puri | So, basically, it's based off your real story. Sarah joined Facebook, she joined Airbnb, and she joined them not super early when they were still in their apartment trying to figure it out. It was working; this was a business that was already valued at, let's say, $1,000,000,000 or more.
So, it was a multibillion-dollar company already. You get the fat salary, you get the unlimited oat milk on tap in the break room, you get the maternity leave, you get everything you would want. But also, you get a stock package. Even if you're not an AI engineer, like let's say you're getting $70,000 a year in stock. If that thing 5x's, you could become a millionaire without ever having done the startup route, just in a 4-year vesting cycle.
That was your wife's story, and it was inspiring to me. I feel like nobody talks about this, but you have to correctly identify the companies that can 4 or 5x in the next 4 years. So, we have this list. They want an update on that list. There's a YouTube video of the last time we did Sarah's list, and we...
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Sam Parr | think we've done it twice | |
Shaan Puri | Twice, and we actually updated that. Hey, a bunch of the companies we mentioned the first time, sure enough, I think the average multiple was like, you know, in exactly the range that we had talked about.
So now, I actually think it's the opposite. I'm calling it "Sarah's Exodus." Basically, there's a whole bunch of companies that raised money in 2020 and 2021 that were at valuations that worked when the economy was different. The stock market was different, inflation was different, and interest rates were different.
Now, those companies will take years to get back to that same valuation, if that. So now, I think it's "Sarah's Exodus," which is about the companies where you just have zombie equity. You are so far underwater on the value of your shares that not only will it not 4 or 5x, it's not even good at 1x. You won't even get what you think it's worth today, and you're going to sit there for 4 years earning that useless stock.
So, I actually think you have to make the opposite list: What companies raised too much at the wrong time, at the wrong valuation, that are basically upside down?
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Sam Parr | and you basically will go to techcrunch and you put year when did the bull market start there | |
Shaan Puri | 2020 and 2021 as the peak maybe even a little 2019 | |
Sam Parr | And go through TechCrunch. Sort by year and look for anything that became a unicorn. Yeah, yeah. Assume that the likelihood is until proven otherwise, right?
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Shaan Puri |
Go to your CEO and say, "Hey, what is the fair market value of this company right now? What's the last money we raised at? How much total money have we raised?"
"Oh, we've raised $600,000,000."
Okay, so we'd have to sell the first $600,000,000 if we sold. It would just go back to the investors. It goes into nothing for employees.
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Sam Parr | And how much secondary did you take? What type of GWACN do you have? What color is your GWACN?
Yeah, you figure out those things. Did I ever tell you about the craziest thing at Airbnb?
So, if you go to their cafeteria, their whole shtick was that every single thing—from the ketchup and mayonnaise to the Coca-Cola, all the condiments, the trail mix—everything was made in-house, on the premises. When there was an office, all the food was made right there on the spot, and it was amazing.
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Shaan Puri |
That's amazing! I remember the same thing happened at... what's it called? Zynga. I went to Zynga and met the head chef there. He ran the culinary team, which was a manager of like 40 people. The internal culinary team was 40 people at Zynga!
You show up at Zynga, and first of all, there's like 94 dogs running around. [It's an] insane amount of dogs. Their logo's a dog, and there's 2 dogs for every one employee there. Secondly, [they have a] 40-person sh*t... [team].
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Sam Parr | There's like a dog fighting pit in the middle. People are playing games. All the Facebook made the audio change.
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Shaan Puri | Yeah, there was a little dog fighting ring that brewed up on the second floor. I went into the kitchen and I was walking around. He's like, "Yeah, we do our own butchering." He opens this fridge that was like a 40-foot fridge, and there was just like... | |
Sam Parr | one of the dogs there | |
Shaan Puri | Cows hanging upside down... I was like, "You're gonna break that down?" He's like, "Yes, I break that down every morning."
Oh, what's this on tap? There's no label. He's like, "That's my homemade kombucha. We make our own, we brew our own drinks, we make our own food. The veggies that you see, that mushroom, it grows on the roof here."
During the tour, I got a little hungry. I reached into my pocket and had some Cheez-Its. I opened up the bag, and dude, they heard the crinkling of a packaged good in that kitchen. The whole kitchen froze! It was like I said "bomb" on a plane. I was like, "Oh, I'm so sorry! I don't know how this got here. I don't know what this is. Who put this in my pocket?"
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Sam Parr | do they still have it you think of course they don't now | |
Shaan Puri | but no though they don't even have the building the whole building got sold | |
Sam Parr | I think the building sold for more than the company was worth at the time. If you Google "Zynga building," they owned this building in San Francisco, and I think they sold it for $250,000,000 at the time when the market cap of the company was $200,000,000. | |
Shaan Puri | Yeah, that was either that or more profit than they've ever generated. It was one of those two. And yeah, now it's owned by Take-Two, who makes Grand Theft Auto and NBA 2K. They own Zynga now. | |
Sam Parr | Yeah, I like those chef companies. So, like Sarah's List, I think you gotta go get yourself this nice...
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Shaan Puri | Dating somebody who works at a tech company with all-you-can-eat food? What are you doing?
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Sam Parr | What's the... no perks, bro? What are the perks? Yeah, what are the attributes of this relationship? You know what I mean? You need to bring some attributes. You better be, you know, the like starving artist, extra hot, or you have a company that has...
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Shaan Puri | All you've seen, how many bars? I was like... I was the Pablo Escobar of smuggling Cliff Bars out of tech companies for like three years.
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Sam Parr | I had free prosciutto for a year I used to like I used to | |
Shaan Puri | I used | |
Shaan Puri | to call it prosciutto | |
Shaan Puri | I didn't | |
Shaan Puri | even know what it was | |
Sam Parr | I was like yeah | |
Shaan Puri | finest prosciutto in all the land | |
Sam Parr | Dude, I used to send her to work with Tupperware containers. It's out of break. Make sure you stay till 7 because I don't really serve a dinner there. Your laptop.
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Shaan Puri | why are | |
Sam Parr | You’re home so early! I know that Facebook dinner didn’t start until 5:30. It takes you an hour to get home. Where’s my pursuit, Ben? What do you say? What do we got?
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Ben Wilson | Do you have any frameworks for maintaining healthy friendships, especially when you're separated by distance? Mine's simple.
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Sam Parr |
I'm in the phase of life right now where I've got one simple phrase when it comes to friends: **"No new friends."** If you're in, you're in.
A mental problem for you? Yeah, here's your mental problem: Everything. If you win, you win. If you ain't, you ain't. Yours.
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Shaan Puri | Yeah, I'm the same. I suck at this. I apologize to my friends; I'm a shitty friend to them. They know it. I do feel bad about it, but you can only try to be great at so many things at once. And, okay, I got kids, so...
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Sam Parr | Wait, what? Are you still picking which thing you're going to be great at? Which one's it going to be? Try to be a great dad. | |
Shaan Puri | I'm trying to make a bunch of money and then get into incredible shape. Those are the things I've prioritized right now. So, you know, friends had to take a little bit of a hit there. | |
Sam Parr | alright you loser what do you say ben what do we got | |
Ben Wilson | If you were to start a business based on the quirkiest or most ridiculous idea that you've ever had, what would it be and why?
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Sam Parr | yours is actually good sean | |
Shaan Puri | yeah did you have an answer for this | |
Sam Parr | No, because I'm not that quirky of a person. Say, yours, the IQ test is actually a good idea.
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Shaan Puri | Alright, so I remember I met a guy who would sell stars—like literally a star in the solar system—for $25. He would name it after you, and I think he would just name it in his own database.
Then, I saw this guy who's been crushing it on TikTok. I don't know if you've seen these TikTok ads where he owns a small piece of land in Dublin or something like that. You will officially be knighted as "Sir," and you will own a piece of land, like a 1-foot by 1-foot plot.
When I saw things like that, there are really two reactions. Most people roll their eyes and say, "This is what's wrong with the world." Then there's me, who's like, "Man, what's wrong with me? Why haven't I done this?" That's kind of where I'm at.
I would love to just take time to do some of these stupid things. I want to be the pet rock guy or the $1,000,000 homepage guy. I think that would just be a lot of fun as a challenge.
I have an idea: I want to create a new IQ test because, like, who doesn't want to seem like they have a high IQ? I think you could build a B2C IQ test that people would pay to see how they score. Or just go all in on something super woo-woo, like horoscopes or crystals.
I actually launched a D2C crystal brand—an e-commerce brand—for a month. Now that I look back, now that I know how e-commerce works, that brand was actually working. I was just too big of a noob to even understand, like, "Is this good or bad? Why?"
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Sam Parr | is it good because people can't return it | |
Shaan Puri | No, no, I just mean like it was working. I was acquiring customers at a good rate. I mean, all e-commerce is basically CAC versus LTV. It's just what's the lifetime value (LTV) of a customer compared to the cost of acquiring that customer (CAC).
Actually, my LTV to CAC was good; I just didn't really understand it enough at the time and didn't trust it enough. My first e-commerce business, before the one I made, was a crystal business. Right now, I have like 4,000 rose quartz coasters still, just because I didn't sell. Again, I didn't move that inventory, so I shut it down.
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Sam Parr | how much did it cost for you to buy and to sell | |
Shaan Puri | Oh dude, these are very cheap to buy. You know, the gross margins are like 75 to 80%. So, you buy it for $2 and sell it for $10. It's just like round math, right? But in reality, you're selling it for $24 and you're buying it for whatever that math turns out to be.
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Sam Parr | Dude, that's wild. But like, you also don't want to be a fraud. Which, hey, if you're selling crystals... I mean.
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Shaan Puri | Fraud is in the eye of the believer, as I say. There are a lot of people who believe that crystals are good and help them. The reason I had this idea, one of them was I...
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Sam Parr | but I'll sell it to them | |
Shaan Puri | I went and I read. I opened up a magazine, like you know, *Cosmo* or one of these magazines. I was like, "Okay, I'm gonna go look outside of my normal box for new ideas."
So I went and opened up *Cosmo*, and there's like this two-page spread about crystals. It was basically like, Adele will not go on stage until she uses her rose quartz crystal. Kim Kardashian, after she got mugged for her $4,000,000 diamond ring—I don't know if you remember this—she claims that crystals are one of the only things that kept her anxiety down and soothed her. She keeps one in her bag at all times.
Gwyneth Paltrow from Goop, I mean, obviously, she's huge into crystals. Do I even need to explain? So there was like this huge number of like...
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Sam Parr | Celebrity female influencers... Well, there's the Adam Sandler movie with Kevin Garnett where he buys that, you know, $1,000,000 black crystal.
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Shaan Puri | That's right, yeah, that's right. That came out late after I'd done that. But, yeah, I basically saw, I was like, "Oh, if Kardashian, Adele, and like whatever, Jennifer Aniston or whoever these people are, if they're all into crystals, like trust me, the perfect e-commerce customer, a woman in the Midwest, is going to buy this stuff." And it was actually worth it.
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Sam Parr | Some chick named Kinsey, yeah, Kinsey in Idaho. She wants a bunch of stuff out of your rocks.
Yeah, like if you have a sign that says "Simplify" or "I Love Us," you're going to be one of my customers.
Alright, Ben, what do you say? Where are we at?
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Ben Wilson | Alright, that one was mostly for Sean. This one is mostly for Sam.
What were the first five big boy moves you made at Hampton? The first thing I did...
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Shaan Puri | by the way ben you gotta | |
Shaan Puri | send these | |
Shaan Puri | guys names people who ask these questions just joe watkins | |
Sam Parr | Yeah, Joe Watkins asked about Hampton. I don't know about the first five, but I didn't buy a domain name. It was just hampton at hampton.squarespace.com. I sent the link to a bunch of friends, and then they sent it to a handful of other friends.
I reached out to tons of people. People would sign up on that page, which was just a Typeform. Then, I called every single person and interviewed them. Joe and I did the back-end stuff, but I handled the front-end work of calling all the potential customers. I must have interviewed 100 to 200 people, and I was the one who sold and got us the first $1,000,000 in sales.
I would joke and tell Sean that my calendar looked like a zebra. It was just constant stripes of 30-minute meetings with 10-minute breaks. I did 100 of them, and I got us to $1,000,000 in sales.
That's a good question. I probably just laid on the couch and thought, "I hate this," and I was so excited when it'll be over one day. I mean, it's really hard work; it's very challenging.
Another big thing I did was hire a CEO because very early on, I thought, "This thing is going to be bigger than me." I realized this would exceed my personal capabilities and skill sets very soon, so I should hire a CEO. But getting the first $1,000,000 in sales is what I focused on for about two months.
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Shaan Puri | I would | |
Shaan Puri | Say, the other thing you did is you nailed the brand and the name, which is just art—that's talent. But I think that, you know, a name won't break you, but it can make you. I think "Hampton" is a perfect name because you borrowed the prestige of the actual Hamptons. You hired an agency to do a nice job with the branding or whatever, so I think that was also important.
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Sam Parr | That agency I hired was $15,000. Basically, what I did was send them a whole bunch of really old Rolex ads. I also mentioned that my favorite color is British Racing Green because I love that color.
It's like a lot of old cars are British, and I have had motorcycles in that color. I have all types of toys in that color. I like that color. I told them to make it look like an old Rolex ad and use British Racing Green. That's kind of it.
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Shaan Puri | How it came to be and $15,000 for you to spend... $15,000 like gives a lot. A sense of like, is that just nothing for you? Are you just like...? | |
Sam Parr | let's just say this | |
Shaan Puri | you sweat that | |
Sam Parr | Last Saturday, I drove 20 minutes to return a spatula to Target for $7. So yeah, I'm a tight one.
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Shaan Puri | it was the kind of guy that licks his finger before he you know gets gives out a one | |
Sam Parr | to the to the to the to | |
Shaan Puri | the to the to the to the to the to the to the to the to the to the to the to the to the to the to the to the to the to the to the to the to the to | |
Sam Parr | the to the to the to the to the to there's not | |
Shaan Puri | a second one speckle in there | |
Sam Parr | That's hilarious! Alright, what do we got?
Next up is this...
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Ben Wilson | Is from Josh Redd, who wants to know: what are the three most common small boy "boobs" that you see?
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Shaan Puri | Alright, so we have this phrase: "No, no small boy stuff."
Okay, what is small boy stuff? The first rule, obviously, is if you think it might be small boy stuff, it is. But besides that, I would say there are three big ones. The three big buckets are the **three W's**: waiting, worrying, and wanting.
Anytime you find yourself waiting to do something that you actually want to do, that's a small boy move. That's a small boy mentality. You're focused on the wrong things.
Worrying is the same way. Worrying hasn't done anyone a lot of good. You gotta know how to do worry. I think Sam's "worry time" is a fantastic framework for that, so go look up Sam's worry time.
Then there's wanting, which means wanting what other people have. People are their happiest when they're grateful, meaning they want what they have versus wanting what they don't have.
So, I think that if you find yourself in a state of mind you don't want to be in, in that small boy state of mind, it's because you're probably waiting to do the thing you actually want to do, worrying about something that might happen that might be bad, or wanting something that you don't have that other people have. You're being bitter, you're being jealous, or so on and so forth.
To me, the three W's kind of capture most of the things that are small boy activities.
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Sam Parr | Have you ever heard of this phrase? This is where we're going to get a little Sigmund Freud on your ass: **external locus of control**. Do you know what that means?
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Shaan Puri | I've heard this phrase many times, and I never have any idea what it means. A locust is a bug; that's where I started. You tell me where to go from there.
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Sam Parr | Yeah, you're totally wrong.
So, an **internal locus of control** means that you believe you have control over your life and circumstances. On the other hand, an **external locus of control** means that you feel your situation is determined by external factors. For example, if you have an external locus of control, you might think, "I am in a bad mood because the traffic is bad, and it's their fault," or "I am poor because the government won't help me," or "Everyone's out to get me."
Internal is the opposite. It means, "I control how I feel, what I do, and where I am in life." I think there's a direct correlation between what I consider a "small boy" mentality and the internal versus external locus of control.
So, anything that reflects the idea of "I am the way I am because I choose to be" or "I put myself in this position" often indicates you're more on the internal side of that spectrum. I think that's better than when you're focused on external factors.
Anything where it's like, "I have to wait until this is ready," or "I have to please these types of people," that's typically, I think, a loser mentality.
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Shaan Puri | Yeah, 100%. I was actually telling somebody this yesterday. I was like, "Where do you think the power lives in this scenario?"
Let's say there's a plant that's not growing. Where is the problem? Where do you suspect the problem is? They're like, "Well, I mean, it could be the soil."
Alright, so soil. So it's the environment that's the reason that the plants are growing? No, no. Maybe it was just a bad seed.
Oh, so it was kind of like the genetics of the seed that you would blame for the outcome? No, no, no. It's just not getting enough sunlight because there are other plants blocking it.
Oh, so it's others—it's competitors that are taking the finite resource? You can't have... What is it? Where is the problem?
And the answer is really, there is no problem. You are the plant. Just *fucking* grow! Don't blame anything. Don't feel lack in any one of those areas.
Ultimately, you want to be the plant that can grow under any conditions, from any seed, in any soil, with any sunlight, in any competition.
What I find is that I get along least with people who really over-index on blaming the soil. It's always the city's fault, it's always the school's fault, it's always the environment's fault. Or people who say, "Oh, it's genetics. I'm fixed. It is the way it is."
Right? Or, "Oh, it's the competition. They're always taking my things." Those are the people I get along with the least.
Even in myself, when I find myself thinking that way, I get along with myself the least. I hate myself the most when I think that way.
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Sam Parr | See, you didn't know what it meant, but you came to the same conclusion that, you know, 100 years' worth of psychologists took them to figure it out for me all day.
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Shaan Puri | Thousands of years of wisdom... I just sort of, on an afternoon, can't come up with a better version myself. And then I find the words.
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Sam Parr | To describe it and use a better analogy. Alright, Ben, what do you say? Where are we at?
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Ben Wilson | Alright, we got an emotional one, ladies and gentlemen. Grab your tissues!
Sam, what is, in your opinion, the greatest quality that Sean has?
Sean, same question. What is the greatest quality that Sam has?
It's a question from Griffin Humphrey.
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Sam Parr | Griffin, good question. Sean's greatest quality is... I feel like I don't want to look you in the eye right now.
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Shaan Puri | so he just closed his eyes should I close my eyes too | |
Sam Parr | It's like... there are a ton of ways that I could take this analogy. I'm not... it's like when you're sitting.
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Shaan Puri | At a table, somebody puts their palms out like this, and then you're supposed to put your hands in there.
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Sam Parr |
Yeah, that's weird. You don't look people in the eye with it. Do that just like compliment each other and go to the bathroom? The eye contact... it doesn't exist. Yeah, we need to sit side by side.
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Shaan Puri | you're noticing what it is | |
Sam Parr | Yeah, yeah, just the conversation. Have you noticed that when you go to the bathroom with someone, even if you're walking to the bathroom together, as soon as the fly goes down, the conversation stops?
The fly in your zipper is like the off button. Then you shake, and when you go back and the fly goes up, oh yeah, you're just right back to the conversation.
That's what this is like. Sean's best attribute is that his attitude is always positive. I don't think I've ever been able to... not that I've done it on purpose, but I've never gotten him rattled. He's very, very, very pleasant. I think almost 100% of the time, I've never seen him get upset about stuff.
That is actually frustrating about him; he doesn't get frustrated sometimes. But at the same time, I would rather have that because I'm fairly emotional and I get frustrated easily. He never gets frustrated, and so I would say that's his best characteristic. | |
Shaan Puri | internal locus of control baby | |
Sam Parr | yeah you you control your I got | |
Shaan Puri | her locust | |
Sam Parr | The locust is inside of you all the time. It never goes outside of you. It's in you. So, I would say that's easily your best attribute: the ability to stay calm and happy no matter what. | |
Shaan Puri | Mine for you would be **intensity**. I think you do a great job cranking the knob up whenever you are into something. I admire that.
When I look at all the things I admire about you, like the way you self-actualized in terms of fitness, the way you built the hustle, or the way you're building Hampton right now, the common denominator is the level of intensity you bring to it.
So, I don't think there's really anything else. It's not like I'm saying, "Oh, you know, the reason..." Say again, it's like **internal locus of control**. It's not like I'm thinking, "Sam got lucky because of this," or "He's got people helping him, and that's why he's winning," or "He's just born with some talents that others don't have."
It's like I think you just do a better job at cranking the intensity to **12** when it's time to. If you're like, "I'm gonna get in shape," you're like, "Great! Inject my butt with TRT, build a home gym, hire a personal trainer, hire a coach, buy the best equipment, wake up every day, and do the program."
When you're doing the workout, you're pushing yourself to your actual max. Then you're measuring everything and posting publicly, so you're ashamed if you don't do it. You go the full way.
It's the same thing with Hampton. I told you this: I had a very similar idea for a peer group thing years ago. I kind of dabbled with it, tried it, created one. It was actually going pretty well, but I was like, "Oh, I have shiny object syndrome." I got kind of bored and decided I didn't really think it was the right thing. I didn't really see the big picture.
To see you take that same idea and do it at level **12 intensity** is such a gift for me because I get to see a without intensity approach to the same idea and a with intensity approach to the same idea. It just shows what the difference is, and that is the difference.
To me, that and I also wrote, "Sam's got a code, and he lives by it." I think you're a lot more honorable than most, and definitely more than me, and so I kind of admire that too.
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Sam Parr | what what code I I don't I don't view myself as having a code necessarily | |
Shaan Puri | do you feel like when you give someone your word that it's done | |
Sam Parr | yeah it's for life | |
Shaan Puri | I do feel like that if someone's your friend, they should fight for you and die for you. Any small slight is like a loyal stab to the heart.
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Sam Parr | I feel like if we're in public and you get in a fight with someone and you throw a punch, even though it's your fault we got in the fight, the person's it is over. Then afterwards, I'll be like, "You're an idiot, that was really inappropriate."
But yeah, I feel... I disagree privately and publicly. Like, we die together, right?
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Shaan Puri | yeah | |
Shaan Puri | I'm completely showing up on time. I feel you have a code. I don't even agree with your whole code; I think you're crazy with some things.
When you go chase down people that broke in, you're like, "No, you broke in, now we fight, we duel." I'm like, "That's stupid, Sam. You should not do that." Or you're like, "This guy is trying to charge me an extra $100 because of whatever." No, we're taking him to petty court.
I'm like, "Sam, it's not worth it, man. Let it go." So, I disagree with your code, but I love that you have a code because I don't think I really have a code to live by.
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Sam Parr | alright what do we got | |
Ben Wilson | Alright, really quick, let me just tell you guys the last questions. You say what you want to do and what you don't.
So we got **creatopreneurs** you're paying attention to, and we got the **pros and cons of building in public**.
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Sam Parr | Let's do a creative one really quick.
Yeah, who are the creative "creatorpreneurs" that you're paying attention to and why? I like Isaac French because he has...
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Ben Wilson | awesome name the creatrepreneur | |
Shaan Puri | Is someone who's creating content but they're also an entrepreneur. They're building a business around their podcast, YouTube, Twitter, or whatever. That's what it is. | |
Sam Parr | I like Isaac French. I hung out with him and I was like, "Why are you so purposeful with everything you do?" He goes, "That's just part of our religion. We feel that we just have to be excellent, and that's how we show that God is great." I was like, "Oh, okay. So, like, I'm not gonna bet against that."
Yeah, I like Jasmine Star. She's a woman who has a software company. I've met her through Hampton, and whenever I hang out with her, I feel like I'm gonna cry. She's so intense. She describes herself as a Latino woman from, I think, East LA, and she's like, "I'm gonna crush all these tech nerds." I love that attitude.
I also like Jason Janowitz and Austin Reif. Jason Janowitz runs Blockworks, a crypto company that just raised some money. I would never bet against them. Then there's Austin Reif, the founder of Morning Brew. Do you agree with me? That guy's a straight stone-cold killer. I would never bet against Austin. I would never bet against him.
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Shaan Puri | Impressive! Actually, my opinion of Morning Brew changed because I was friends with you. So, same... you know, the loyalty test. I was friends with you, therefore your enemies are my enemies.
When you were doing The Hustle, I was like, "Okay, so who are the other newsletters? Those are my enemies." Someone go look up their founders; they're on my shit list.
Now, Austin is a friend, and I actually really think that guy's awesome. He's super clever. There are a bunch of people who are successful but stupid. He's not one of them; he's smart.
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Sam Parr | he is not | |
Shaan Puri | one of | |
Shaan Puri | them he's he's he's real so you know I give him my my and he's young | |
Sam Parr | I always forget this. I think he's only 27 still. I believe he'll have north of $100,000,000 before he's 30 years old, is my guess.
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Shaan Puri | And he's got a mean lefty hookshot.
Alright, so my **creatopreneurs**, I'm looking at... I try to look at people that are in different bubbles. I think if I just look at other business content creator entrepreneur people, I will become the lame Twitter thread boy, copycat, wannabe, bitch boy. That's what I tell myself in my head.
So where do I go look instead? I look at creators in other categories.
I'll give you a quick example: we had Danny Austin on the pod recently. Actually, a bunch of people who were listening to it gave feedback that was like, "Oh, this episode wasn't for me. Instagram influencer? Who cares?" And I was like, "You guys are missing the..."
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Sam Parr | yeah she's way more sophisticated | |
Shaan Puri | Yeah, I was like, the goal there was... there were golden nuggets.
So, at first, I subscribed to her content because when you look at what mommy influencers on Instagram do, it's a whole different style of content that you can kind of steal ideas from and get inspiration from. That's the first thing.
The second thing was, every other mom influencer created something like, "My fashion brand is here! Buy my dresses for the summer, buy my swimsuits," but whatever, it's the same, same, same, same, same merch and fashion apparel.
She picked an incredible business, which is this scalp care thing that was perfectly aligned with her story of why she's famous in the first place and why people connect with her. It's this high-margin thing with only a couple of SKUs. It doesn't have any of the headaches of fashion. It's a beautiful business and it's crushing it.
It did, you know, $40,000,000 last year in revenue without even, you know, pretty significant ad spend.
So, to me, there was a nugget of gold, which is what happens when you align the perfect project selection. That's an example of perfect project selection paired with an awesome content creator. | |
Sam Parr | what what could that business sell for | |
Shaan Puri | That should be a multi-million dollar business. Like, that should be a $250 million business if they just carry on. Wow, that is a perfect project selection. I couldn't admire it more; it's perfectly aligned with her, and it's a beautiful business on its own.
Alright, others that are more in our niche. So, Pomp... I'm inspired by his level of output. The guy's a machine. I'm super weak and inconsistent with output, and he is super regimented. I think he's ex-military too, so he is super regimented with output.
I'm also interested in how he's redefining himself. He's rebranding himself outside of Bitcoin right now, and that's something cool to watch. So, I want to see what he does and what works and what doesn't.
Then, Tim Ferriss. He's also very different from me. He's ultra-thoughtful about his brand, which is the opposite of me. He's measured, he's thoughtful, he cites his sources. He does not say yes to a lot of things; he's very picky and choosy. He's the opposite of me in every way. So, I like to see what he does because I want to learn from people with different play styles.
And then, Steve Bartlett. Same thing; he's high style. Everything Steve Bartlett does is cool. I buy a hat; he buys a hat. Mine looks shabby; his looks awesome, you know?
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Sam Parr | well he's also like a 61 like pretty ripped looking black guy I mean of course he looks awesome | |
Shaan Puri | Everything he does is in style. The way he talks is in style. The way his podcast trailers are done is in style. His live podcast show has a gospel choir singing as he's talking or some... I don't even know. I don't even understand it, but I just know that what this guy does, he does in style.
I think there are very few people in business who are funny. I think there are very few people in business that have style. So, I kind of am looking and watching what they're doing and picking little pieces from their game. | |
Sam Parr | Dude, I always look at Steve McQueen. Do you know who Steve McQueen is? He's this actor who is dead now, but they call him "the King of Cool." I like to look at the clothes that he wore, and then everyone wants to dress like him.
You see on Reddit someone saying, "Oh, I tried. I bought the Steve McQueen outfit," and you look at them and think, "Oh, you look like store brand Steve McQueen." You know, that ain't good.
Sometimes, people just look... I'll look at Brad Pitt and his clothes, and then I see people try to dress like him. I'm like, "Dude, you just don't got it." You know what I mean? No matter what I do, I will never look like that. You're just better looking than me. You got the bod.
That's sometimes how I still feel about some of these guys. I guess we'll put Steve in the category of when you got that bod, that face, and you're that tall. You're gonna look good no matter what.
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Shaan Puri | fair enough | |
Sam Parr | Here's a really quick one. Someone asked a different question, but I'm going to phrase it differently.
They asked, "Who do you want to live with?" My answer would be Gary Vaynerchuk, Elon Musk, and Mr. Beast. However, I wanted to say something: I think they all would be horrible to live with. Those three guys would be the worst roommates.
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Shaan Puri | Yeah, totally. Only Elon, because he'll just never be there. Actually, that's the best roommate—the guy who's just got the empty room. You're living in a double, but it's all yours. That's actually a pretty good deal. | |
Sam Parr | I've lived with a handful of highly successful people, and I've hung out with them. I hate going to their houses; their homes are usually a wreck. I would only live with these guys.
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Shaan Puri | Camera around in this office right now. People would unsubscribe; the gentleman's agreement would be over. People would be like, "I never want to hear from this guy again."
If somebody lives like this, think of your worst episode of *Hoarders*. That's currently what my office looks like. It's an absolute mess.
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Sam Parr | that's disgusting to me how do you live that way | |
Shaan Puri | I just do, bro. I just do. I don't know how I live with myself like this. This is crazy. I don't want to be my own.
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Sam Parr | Your room's like a mullet, man. It looks great from this angle, but you've got all this party nonsense in the back.
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Shaan Puri | well after I record this I just leave this room and so I never come back and clean it | |
Sam Parr | I can't stand that. That's the filth of me. I would not, I could not be around that. Is that it? Are we done, Ben? Did we do it now?
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Shaan Puri | Ask one more... I want to ask one more. Alright, because why not? Kevin Newman asked, "Who are the three folks that beat it as MP3?" But who are the people that are having the most fun?
I love this question! I think about it all the time because you could ask, like, who's the most successful, who's the smartest, or who's the most popular. I'm interested in having a lot of fun with my life. I only have so much time on this little planet, and I want to enjoy it.
So, I think this is a great question to ask. I have a couple of answers, but I would be really curious to hear yours because I think yours would be very different from mine. Does anybody come to mind off the top of your head?
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Sam Parr | rob dyrdek | |
Shaan Puri | and say a few more words about that | |
Sam Parr | Rob Dyrdek, when I think of what I want my life to be, it's basically to have a fantasy factory. So, Rob Dyrdek, by the way, he talked a lot about his wife. Not only does she seem awesome, but she is also a former Playmate model.
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Shaan Puri | not only does she seem awesome she looks awesome yeah | |
Sam Parr | No, Rob Dyrdek. I think he has a ton of fun, and I think that he views business a little bit like an art instead of like a McKinsey spreadsheet dork. I think that this is his art; this is how he expresses himself. I think he has a shitload of fun.
The way that he's broken records is impressive. He had an episode on *Fantasy Factory* where he broke nine world records or something like that. I just love people who do dumb stuff just because it seems fun. So, I think Rob Dyrdek is up there.
You have Joe Rogan; he seems like he's living his life by his own rules.
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Shaan Puri | If you take Joe Rogan, you're like, "Alright, what are the five things you most enjoy doing?" He's like, "Well, I love comedy, I love UFC, I love talking to smart people and learning new shit, and I love hunting."
He integrated his career, his life, and his friends to be the same thing. His friends are other comedians, and then he's like, "And people in the UFC." His career is, "Oh, well, I'll just be the top broadcaster in the UFC, the top podcaster, and then I'll be one of the top touring comedians."
That sounds great! Then I'll make a bunch of money and get to do my art. That sounds fun.
He drew boundaries. He's like, "Yeah, I love the UFC, but I'm not traveling to Senegal for this pay-per-view. I only do the ones that go to Dubai or are within a two-hour flight of me. That's it; that's my rule. I'm just going to do that, and I'm okay with not doing the rest."
I love that you said he's not divorced. He seems like he's got his head on straight. I really think he's having a lot of fun. I admire that.
Bill Simmons is kind of the same way; he's basically that for sports.
Then my Uncle Vinny... I got an Uncle Vinny whose nickname was literally given to him as "Smiley." He signs all his signatures as "Vinny 'Smiley'" and he says, or he'll just sign it "Smiley." And like, this is what...
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Sam Parr | people we just met the pegs like sir I don't think you could do that | |
Shaan Puri | He's, I don't know, 70-something years old, and if you hear him, he's like, "I'm getting younger every day." He's so excited! He wakes up at 4 in the morning with no alarm because he's so excited about the day.
Even though the things he's doing, like, "I'm so excited! I'm doing this webinar about multifamily real estate right now," it's not what I would enjoy doing. It's not even something that sounds super glamorous to the outside world. But he is excited about it. He is having the most fun in his life!
He wears what he wants, dresses the way he wants, talks the way he wants, and does what he wants with his time. He travels the way he wants. I just feel like that guy's joy meter is permanently stuck on max.
I kind of admire that because with Joe Rogan, it's easy to say, "Man, yeah, if I also had the best podcast, the UFC, and all these hobbies and great friends, yeah, I would be having a lot of fun too."
My Uncle Vinny is a great example because he doesn't have a lifestyle that's like, you know, some celebrity or something like that, and he's having all the fun now. I think that's great because he's not waiting to achieve all this stuff to have fun; he's having it now. | |
Sam Parr | what type of indian guy has the name of vinny is that a are there well his real name's vinny vinnyasya | |
Shaan Puri | His real name's Vinny. He changed it to make it more acceptable in America when he moved here. Then they just thought, "Bro, this guy never stops smiling." So his whole company just called him "Smiley." And that was the whole thing.
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Sam Parr | We named one rat in Austin "Vinny." We had this really bad office that had rats, and Vinny was an Italian guy. They would come in at night, like, "Oh hey, the fat guy lent us some cheese." That was the name of our office rat, Vinny. Vinny from New York. That's what I think of.
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Shaan Puri | you haven't named an office rat or mouse you you haven't grinded | |
Sam Parr |
Have you lived? You're not on that grind.
Alright, Q&A. This is the easiest stuff ever to talk about. So maybe we should just do this every time. Now I know why Gary Vaynerchuk did that... the whole show was "Ask Gary V".
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Shaan Puri | right | |
Sam Parr | all you have to do is just like answer dumb questions | |
Shaan Puri | yeah this is fun we should do more | |
Sam Parr | alright that's the pod |