MrBeast Shares What It Really Takes To Become THE BEST On YouTube (Interview w/ MFM & Hasan Minhaj)
Obsession, Winning, Creativity, and Success. - August 25, 2022 (over 2 years ago) • 37:02
Transcript:
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James Stephen Donaldson | The way I like to work is that I basically wake up, obsess over something, go to bed, and then wake up again to obsess. I do this every second of the day until I just have a mental breakdown and burn out. Then, I take a day off or maybe a day and a half off, and I like to go right back to it.
So, I don't work certain days; I just go as hard as I can, using every ounce of my entire body until I just crash. | |
Shaan Puri | alright in this episode we are gonna talk about | |
Sam Parr | one second look we gotta let the guy mister beast actually do the intro | |
James Stephen Donaldson | Guys, in this, we're gonna teach you how to make a **$1,000,000**. If you don't have a **$1,000,000**, we're gonna show you how in this podcast.
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Shaan Puri | Alright, that was way better than us. Yeah, that's right! Mr. Beast, the biggest YouTuber in the world, joined us on "My First Million," along with Hasan Minhaj, one of the biggest comedians in the world. We did a four-person pod in person. This is kind of amazing!
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Sam Parr | So, look, check this out. I think Sean actually mentioned this on the podcast. About 3 to 4 weeks ago, he said he was going to create this thing called "Camp MFM."
Basically, he rented a big old mansion in North Carolina. He DM'd like 20 different people, a bunch of different founders, and a bunch of interesting people. But then he also DM'd Mr. Beast and Hassan and told them to come.
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James Stephen Donaldson | I didn't actually think they were gonna show up | |
Sam Parr | And so, we were just sitting here at night recording a podcast when they walked in and joined us. It was amazing.
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Shaan Puri | Yeah, it was crazy seeing one of the biggest YouTubers in the world and one of the biggest comedians in the world. They kind of interviewed each other and talked about their creative process, what they're self-conscious of, what it's like to work for them, and how much they put into each thing that they do. It was pretty nuts. | |
Sam Parr | Yeah, it was... I mean, it was amazing. They made fun of me at first because I was nervous, and it was awesome.
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Shaan Puri | it was a big deal it was awesome | |
Sam Parr | so check it out I think you're gonna dig it wait hold on we're rolling | |
James Stephen Donaldson | we're rolling alright we're live we'll do it if it's not recording you're just not getting it yeah | |
Hasan Minhaj | you're not getting it dude you're not getting jimmy | |
Sam Parr | alright we're live wait what were we saying | |
Hasan Minhaj | this is the most interesting crossover ever | |
James Stephen Donaldson | yes yeah why are the 4 of us sitting here | |
Hasan Minhaj | I have no idea | |
James Stephen Donaldson | let's put him on the spot | |
Shaan Puri | because he | |
James Stephen Donaldson | seems the most nervous | |
Shaan Puri | Yeah, me? No. He's like the "body language doctor." Yeah, but he means body language, good, right?
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James Stephen Donaldson | why I'm nervous | |
Sam Parr | is because I'm wearing these shorgos | |
Shaan Puri | yeah bro | |
James Stephen Donaldson | you're in the shorgos we also got a live audience here why is why why is this | |
Hasan Minhaj | yeah yeah | |
Shaan Puri | there's 30 men in this house | |
James Stephen Donaldson | why why is there a sausage fest give us answers | |
Hasan Minhaj | this is the power of sean here | |
Sam Parr | Listen, here's the deal. The story was that you wanted to do this, and it happened in three weeks.
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Shaan Puri | Yeah, I just hit up a bunch of people. Actually, you know what? The way it really came together was I just tweeted it out. Because if you do that, it's like a luck magnet; good things can happen.
Over a hundred people signed up for it. I was scrolling through the names and I saw one that said "MrBeast." I was like, "But I... I was like, it's a Google form; anybody could write 'MrBeast.'" I was like, "Oh yeah, whatever, some jackass."
Then he DMs me and goes, "This sounds fun," and we don't know each other.
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James Stephen Donaldson | yeah I don't know him at all | |
Shaan Puri | And he's like, "I was like, oh shit, that was real. Oh shit, this is on. We're gonna do it now."
And then I was like, "Where are we doing it?" And he was like, "Where does Mr. Beast live?" I said, "North Carolina." I was like, "Yeah, we're thinking about doing it near Duke."
He's like, "Okay, I'll come, Ben." And then I got everybody else in that.
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Hasan Minhaj | you follow him on on twitter | |
James Stephen Donaldson | But Ben from How to Take a World retweeted him, and I was like, "Who's this guy?" I tapped, and he just tweeted like 5 seconds ago, "I'm hosting an NBA camp for entrepreneurs." So I was like, "Oh, this looks cool." | |
Shaan Puri | and then | |
Hasan Minhaj | I just bought | |
Shaan Puri | that's how crazy life is | |
James Stephen Donaldson | I don't know who this is but I mean fastball sounds fun | |
Shaan Puri | And then he calls me last week. He's like, "I'm coming, but I don't know who you are, so what's your deal?"
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James Stephen Donaldson | and here we are | |
Shaan Puri | but you do that you just walk around and call people | |
James Stephen Donaldson | yeah well I just like learning I mean that's how | |
Sam Parr | You just did! Did you hear how he got connected with Ben?
No? Alright, so Ben over here, he is our producer. Okay? And he hosts this amazing podcast called "How to Take Over the World." I get... how did you find it?
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Hasan Minhaj | bro | |
James Stephen Donaldson | this is gonna get so many levels of people | |
Shaan Puri | put them on to | |
James Stephen Donaldson | no one has any idea what we're even talking about before | |
Sam Parr | no they do because cliff who's sitting there | |
James Stephen Donaldson | He told me to listen to how to take over the world, so I listened to it. He retweeted his tweet about the camp, and here I am.
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Sam Parr | you know | |
Shaan Puri | What's funny about life is that he's like, "Yeah, this is dog shit content." Because on YouTube, you had to be on. In the first 10 seconds, you needed to really grip people. He's like, "This is their podcast."
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James Stephen Donaldson | I've already gone over 20 ways we could optimize this better in my head what are they | |
Shaan Puri | what would they be let's go 20 ways well that's what this podcast is a brainstorm so | |
James Stephen Donaldson | We've already switched topics like five times, and we didn't really hit them with a hard one at the start. It would have been better if, I don't know, you told some crazy story or something to hook them. Like the story or the intro hook for those who don't know. Then they're like, "Oh, now I know I should listen."
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Shaan Puri | like alright watch the podcast for a second so do our 10 second intro | |
James Stephen Donaldson | Guys, in this, we're going to teach you how to make a **$1,000,000**. If you don't have a **$1,000,000**, we're going to show you in this podcast how to achieve that. Something like that, and now they're going to listen.
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Shaan Puri | Alright, so here's what's interesting. We got me and Sam, mhmm. We got Hasan Minhaj, who's a famous comedian with a Netflix special.
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Hasan Minhaj | we haven't announced it yet but yeah sure | |
Shaan Puri | **Breaking news!** We got Jimmy, aka Mr. Beast. **Craziest crossover!** Yeah, it's... | |
Hasan Minhaj | a wild you | |
Shaan Puri | guys just met tonight | |
Hasan Minhaj | we met like an hour ago yeah | |
Shaan Puri | alright give me first impressions what do you think of mrbeast he's a cool guy | |
Hasan Minhaj | yeah he seemed really cool | |
Shaan Puri | what did you think coming in | |
Hasan Minhaj | I just knew he was a big prank stunt. He's the voice of YouTube.
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Shaan Puri | voice of a generation or he's how you thought he would be | |
Hasan Minhaj | Yeah, so I thought... I feel like his curiosity and enthusiasm, all that stuff, was really cool. I listened to him on Rogan; he was really fascinating.
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Shaan Puri | and what about you what was your first impression | |
James Stephen Donaldson | I mean, it's kind of the same thing. You're just easy to talk to, which I think is very nice. We were talking for like an hour.
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Hasan Minhaj | yo sean sean just turned this into indian matchmaking so fast | |
Shaan Puri | what did you say hold hands hold hands just hold hands look he's got | |
James Stephen Donaldson | that ring on his finger he's taken yeah | |
Shaan Puri | I'm taken buddy | |
James Stephen Donaldson | dude you said | |
Sam Parr | so he said something really interesting to me earlier we were just you and I were shooting the shit | |
James Stephen Donaldson | oh god what a sec | |
Sam Parr | And we're talking about business. I think you said Elon Musk is like... I don't know if you said "hero," but you're like, "I think he's like the pinnacle of entrepreneurship."
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Hasan Minhaj | yeah sure | |
Sam Parr | And I was like, "Well, what do you think is going to be your SpaceX? What's going to be your big rocket thing?" You said, "Well, Elon had Zip2 when he was around my age."
So, Zip2 was like his peer filing, his peer sharing service that he sold and made like $20 or $30 million. Then he took that and he did PayPal and whatever else he did.
You said something like, "I think I can build like a $100 billion company, but if I'm being modest, I'll build at least a couple of $1 billion companies."
But then you go, "But I don't really care about the money. I just love winning. I just want to win." And I was like, "Yes!"
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James Stephen Donaldson | sounds about right | |
Sam Parr | I'm about this I like that | |
James Stephen Donaldson | I mean, money is cool, but you know, I live in my studio. I don't have a mansion, and I don't drive a Land Rover.
So, it's like I like money because it allows me to hire more people and grow my business, but not so I can increase my lifestyle or whatever.
Most people, when you say that, think you just want to buy expensive stuff. That's why I prefer to say, "I love winning," because it kind of encapsulates it a little bit more.
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Sam Parr | do your employees do we we went | |
Shaan Puri | We went to his office today, or we went to his studio. He took us on a tour. "Cool, this is where we blow shit up," this guy's trapped, John.
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James Stephen Donaldson | blew me off by | |
Sam Parr | the way | |
Shaan Puri | yeah yeah yeah you you yours | |
Hasan Minhaj | yours canada flight delays blew him off yeah yeah kidding kidding | |
Shaan Puri | But we walked through. He's like, "Alright, yeah, this boardroom, this is my office."
So we go in and it's basically like, imagine a gaming chair. There's a computer that's standard next to it. It gets like two other objects in the room. Just take any guess.
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Sam Parr | that he had | |
Hasan Minhaj | yeah a nalgene water bottle and | |
Sam Parr | a bench press a bench | |
Shaan Puri | Press directly next to the desk, and then the walls were just like a Steve Jobs quote, an Elon quote, a Steve Jobs quote. There's like a timeline: at this age, Steve Jobs was here. At this age, you're motivated by that stuff.
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James Stephen Donaldson | Stay ahead of it. Also, some of those Elon quotes aren't even real. I love to just put fake Elon quotes out there to see if people read them and think, "Oh, that's inspiring," or realize they're just completely made up.
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Shaan Puri | Well, they're not that insightful. One was just one right in front of your desk: "Work super hard, Elon Musk." Well, that's one.
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James Stephen Donaldson | I have my assistant trying to find the dumbest things Elon has ever publicly said. I want to mix those with all the real quotes just to see if people believe him or not.
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Hasan Minhaj | were you good at school | |
James Stephen Donaldson | no horrible really god awful | |
Hasan Minhaj | wow okay | |
James Stephen Donaldson | Yeah, that was like... I mean, I would act like I was studying, but you know, I was filming videos. Actually, my entire high school career, I never brought my backpack home or anything. I would just throw it under the bleachers, and then in the morning, I'd just grab it.
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Hasan Minhaj | your first video was what you were like 12 right | |
James Stephen Donaldson | Yeah, oh actually, I started making videos around 11.
Yeah, wow, holy shit!
It's crazy because I see 11-year-olds now. They're like this tall and squeaky, and I'm like, "How was I making videos? This kid looks..." | |
Hasan Minhaj | is your first video still left | |
James Stephen Donaldson | No, because I got embarrassed. People had played my videos in class, so I deleted my channel. Then, I made a new one when I was 13.
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Hasan Minhaj | but the 13 year old videos are still live | |
James Stephen Donaldson | yeah 13 year old videos are still | |
Shaan Puri | Live! Wow, okay. One, that's dope. That's like a message to myself in 5 years: "Colin is shot." Do you...? | |
James Stephen Donaldson | You know what he's talking about? The greatest thing I ever did in my life was when I was studying for a history test, like back a long time ago when I had about 8,000 subscribers. I was like, "Screw this!" I just closed my book, threw it on the floor, and recorded a video.
I scheduled and uploaded a video for 6 months, saying, "Hire me in 6 months. I think I'll have 100,000 subscribers" or whatever, or no, "10,000 subscribers." I was like... and then I hit stop recording, then hit record, "Hire me in a year."
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Sam Parr | and I schedule up because you | |
James Stephen Donaldson | Can upload videos to a future video a year out. It's like, you better have 100,000. I was like, "Hymie, in 5 years, bro, if you don't have a million subscribers, you're a fucking idiot."
I just would talk to me 5 years from now. I was just talking about the channel, but I filmed it when I had 8,000 subscribers a long time ago. Then I did "Hymie, in 10 years," blah blah blah. So, 10 years hasn't come out yet, but "Hymie, in 5 years" came out. My prediction was I'd have a million subscribers.
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Shaan Puri | so it | |
James Stephen Donaldson | Goes live on the channel like 2 years ago and I had like 40,000,000 subscribers. But in the video that goes live, it's like, "Here's the date, here's the time." I'm like a *fucking stupid teenage kid* and I'm like, "I hope you have at least a million subscribers and maybe you're doing this as a job. I don't know, I make like $10 a month right now. I hope you can make it a job in the next 5 years."
And that went public, and I completely forgot I even did that. I just... I was like, "Oh shit!" I opened up YouTube and I saw it. Everyone thought it was... I thought it was one of the coolest things I ever did.
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Hasan Minhaj | wow and you're like a little kid in it | |
Shaan Puri | yeah | |
James Stephen Donaldson | and so in like 3 more years hide me in 10 years goes up and I'm like | |
Sam Parr | do you remember what's in it | |
James Stephen Donaldson | I'm just like, I hope by now you should be out of college. Yeah, you're definitely out of college. I think that's how I started it. You should be doing YouTube full-time. There's just no world where you're not after 10 years. You're probably making a little bit of money. I just hope you are. Like, I hope you didn't...
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Sam Parr | and how much were you at the time | |
James Stephen Donaldson | Like I was at 8,000 subscribers, making $10 a month. So my prediction in 10 years was, "I hope you're doing this as a job." When that goes up, I think that's gonna be crazy.
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Shaan Puri | And when we were talking today, you spoke with a lot of certainty about where you're going and what you're doing. There's a very clear sense of direction. If everybody's got this knob that's set to doubt, your knob's set to 0 on doubt. That's my... I don't know.
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James Stephen Donaldson | Is that accurate? Yeah, well, the thing is, we... I don't know, we probably spend like 20 to 30 times longer thinking of ideas than other people. We probably film like 10 times more than other people. We probably spend 100 times more for a video than other people.
So it's like we put in the effort, but I don't know how to say it where it's not arrogant. I just believe in what we're doing, you know what I mean?
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Shaan Puri | back then like how much do you think you believed when you when you recorded that video that that was actually gonna happen oh no | |
James Stephen Donaldson | I mean, those were just different times. I was in the middle of **bumf**uck nowhere, North Carolina, so it's like everyone, you know, constantly wanted to remind me, "You're not gonna be a YouTuber. Grow up, be realistic."
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Hasan Minhaj | think it's amazing that you never left north carolina though | |
Shaan Puri | yeah you're still in bump fuck north carolina what are | |
Hasan Minhaj | you talking about yeah | |
James Stephen Donaldson | I'm trying to make it not bump fuck anymore but it's a work in progress | |
Shaan Puri | do you | |
Hasan Minhaj | still wrap it really hard | |
Shaan Puri | I mean I | |
James Stephen Donaldson | just I got a lot I mean some of these people over here work there I just got a lot of people and it's too much to move | |
Sam Parr | What was your metric instead of subscribers and views when you were younger? Because with business, it's like revenue or employees. You guys are both in business, but you're also in a more creative field. So, what was yours?
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Hasan Minhaj | Yeah, when I was coming up, it was probably, "Can you do a set on late night? Can you do like a Conan set?" Oh man, yeah! Could you be on? I'll be a cast member of SNL. Those were the metrics, kind of those legacy media comedy institutions.
"I'll be in a movie. I wanna be in a sitcom. I wanna be in a TV show."
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Sam Parr | and what it feel like when you started actually like you know the daily show and then selling | |
Hasan Minhaj | It felt like a real check mark, like, "Wow, you've turned the corner, didn't you?"
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Shaan Puri | tell me | |
Hasan Minhaj | that yeah | |
Sam Parr | that like right before that happened you were living in a basement | |
Hasan Minhaj | I was living in an attic, bro. And don't... yeah, yeah, attics are actually above sea level, but basements are below sometimes, you know? So, yeah, I was living in a kind of not a great situation, though.
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Shaan Puri | how | |
Hasan Minhaj | I'm amazed at your confidence bro the level of the level of confidence like the | |
James Stephen Donaldson | in the video | |
Hasan Minhaj | Not just the sheer amount of confidence you have, because I still think maybe a downside of comedy is you have to have a very high level of self-deprecation and self-awareness to be like you.
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Shaan Puri | wow but but you gave me a little hit you go enough | |
James Stephen Donaldson | ego on this man | |
Shaan Puri | bro you started an 8 k I'm at 17 k I'm at least gonna yeah | |
James Stephen Donaldson | okay but | |
Shaan Puri | He says something like, "Comedy is a low-status game." You start at a low status, and you just told me, is that a trade secret or can you...?
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Hasan Minhaj | Just do that. You know, it's like there's high status and low status. Generally, if you're low status, they're going to empathize with you. You know what I mean? So...
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Shaan Puri | like what's an example you get on stage you | |
Hasan Minhaj | Being like, "I got 70,000 views in front of a guy who gets like 50,000,000 views," right? But that was on stage.
We're going to empathize more with you than we are with Mr. Beast in that scenario because you're like, "Oh man." You know, and if you're funny about it and confident, well, if you kind of own it, people are like, "Oh, like I..."
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Shaan Puri | Even just now, we did an awkward icebreaker with the group. I was thinking about this because my prompt was to say your name and one thing that nobody in the room knows about you.
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Hasan Minhaj | yeah | |
Shaan Puri | Which was basically like, you can't be like, "I'm Mr. Beast, I make a bunch of YouTube videos." You know, it's like you can't use your claim to fame; you gotta use something else, right?
And everybody was saying something interesting. Then I think Sully was the first one who was just like, "I played one game of little league baseball in my life because I shit my pants and they wouldn't let me come back." That was really great.
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Hasan Minhaj | yeah and that was low status by the | |
Shaan Puri | Way 100,000 people are going to listen to that one. But he did a low-status one where everybody else was saying a fun fact, like a cool fact about something. Totally, he went low.
Somebody else was like, "You know, I remarried my ex-wife, which makes me either the biggest idiot in the world or I guess the biggest idiot in the world."
Yes, yeah, do I still remember that?
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James Stephen Donaldson | He's like, "Hey group, share something no one on the planet knows."
No one. And then, 5 minutes later, "Alright podcast, here's what they said."
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Shaan Puri | yeah yeah yeah | |
Hasan Minhaj | I mean, shitting your pants at little league is pretty... yeah, pretty low status. And then, yeah, being like, "Alright, I double backed and married my ex-wife again." Like, yeah.
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James Stephen Donaldson | yeah like no one knows this jimmy | |
Sam Parr | were you confident as a as a kid in the career yeah | |
Hasan Minhaj | just as a kid | |
James Stephen Donaldson | no I had a fucking god off the acne when I was younger I still have a ton of acne scars so | |
Sam Parr | It's getting even worse. What are you not confident about? So, you're confident in your work and your ability to hit certain goals, whether it's a revenue target or not.
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James Stephen Donaldson | Actually, it leads me in. Honestly, I'm still trying to get confident speaking in front of large groups of people, which made me want to ask you a question. | |
Hasan Minhaj | because you're | |
James Stephen Donaldson | Talking about stand-up... yeah, how... so let's say if I dedicated my life to trying to be a stand-up comic, how long do you think it would take for me to get good at it? I mean, what's the typical curve?
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Hasan Minhaj | For you, everybody says it takes 10 years to get good, but I just think it all depends on your natural capacity and inclination for it.
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Shaan Puri | mhmm | |
Hasan Minhaj | Like, there are some people I've seen when they're open micers. They're amazing! You know, they just have great stage presence and great stories. They're amazing on stage. So, those people, like that comic that I met, where I'm like, the first time I saw them, they... | |
Sam Parr | were amazing | |
Hasan Minhaj | Jerrod Carmichael was incredible. He was just incredible. He was so comfortable.
We would do open mics, and while everybody was turning left, he was just turning right. His vulnerability and stage presence were remarkable.
People would do their sets, and he would do things like, in a Conan showcase, where everyone would present their polished material—like, "Hey, what's up? I'm hustling, and you know, dating's hard."
He would just get up and, off the dome, kind of do a brand new set that night. You could tell. You could tell you were like, "Oh, this is kind of crazy."
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Sam Parr | so how long do you think it would take him to get good | |
Hasan Minhaj | I don't... I mean, it's like the question he just asked: "How long would it take me to be as good as Ariana Grande at singing?" You're like, "How would I even...?" It's not a hack.
Like, dude, if you asked an MMA fighter, "How long would it take me to get as good as you?" It's... oh, thank you.
See, that's a... you put them in low status. You offered the two waters to me, and now I feel weird. Now I gotta put down this side... no, I gotta...
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Shaan Puri | put down this side oh that's scary | |
Hasan Minhaj | no dude low status | |
Shaan Puri | I spent my whole life trying to be high status no no you guys you got water now in parts | |
Hasan Minhaj | to go | |
Shaan Puri | that sounds in the future yeah yeah | |
Hasan Minhaj | yeah yeah | |
Shaan Puri | I have | |
Hasan Minhaj | to I have to I have to give mister beast his water | |
Shaan Puri | you know what I mean | |
James Stephen Donaldson | jimmy what | |
Sam Parr | are you what | |
Shaan Puri | are you | |
Hasan Minhaj | you legacy media hack | |
Shaan Puri | and I just thought | |
Hasan Minhaj | I gotta pour the water for him and the yeah yeah yeah just fuck | |
Shaan Puri | out of here | |
Sam Parr | Is your company run like a normal company at all? And what would your employees say about working with you?
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James Stephen Donaldson | I mean trig do you want to just come to that | |
Hasan Minhaj | damn I | |
Sam Parr | don't know | |
Shaan Puri | yeah | |
Hasan Minhaj | trig do you want to just come | |
Shaan Puri | to that | |
Hasan Minhaj | damn I don't know | |
James Stephen Donaldson | yeah have you had like how | |
Sam Parr | did you learn how to run a company do you ever had did you have to | |
James Stephen Donaldson | Hire someone. That's what's hard because, like, yeah, sure, he wants to come on in. There are a couple of questions.
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Hasan Minhaj | take over | |
Sam Parr | yeah you take over | |
James Stephen Donaldson | so the question was like what's it like working with him oh it's great I mean it's always different no it really is | |
Shaan Puri | more here's | |
James Stephen Donaldson | the thing here's | |
Shaan Puri | the thing no it really is more more here's the thing here's the thing here's the thing here's the thing here's the thing here's the thing | |
James Stephen Donaldson | here's the thing | |
Shaan Puri | here's the thing here's the thing fired I'm fired I'm already fired I'm already fired | |
Sam Parr | I'm already fired the house is to re | |
Shaan Puri | answer that | |
Hasan Minhaj | but not well but listen is fired tell us | |
James Stephen Donaldson | he pays the bills | |
Shaan Puri | go ahead | |
James Stephen Donaldson | ask a ask | |
Shaan Puri | let me ask you a better question | |
Sam Parr | yes | |
Shaan Puri | Alright, so the better question is: what's the extreme, either the extreme good part or the extreme bad part about working with them? We know it's overall extreme.
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James Stephen Donaldson | Actually, I will say that right now, the extremely good part is the experiences. I've had experiences that I never could have imagined in my entire life, like traveling and doing the coolest stunts we've ever done.
The worst part is, I guess, not knowing what's next in terms of routine. He knows this best too; we all kind of go through it if you work at MrBeast. But that comes with it, you know what I mean? And that's something that you kind of have to accept. But yeah.
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Hasan Minhaj | I think that's my answer | |
Shaan Puri | that's alright | |
Sam Parr | well and the reason I was asking was because | |
James Stephen Donaldson | you am I your favorite boss I'm a great person so far a 100% yes | |
Shaan Puri | shit about it | |
James Stephen Donaldson | well no | |
Shaan Puri | I was I was | |
Sam Parr | Asking because my employees sometimes complain that I can be too aggressive, changing things too much. But you seem more aggressive than I am.
Yeah, and for a certain type of person, they like that. But for you to achieve your goals, you're going to have to have a lot of people. Then, every once in a while, you'll need to focus on process, infrastructure, and planning.
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Shaan Puri | are you a perfectionist | |
James Stephen Donaldson | Well, of course, yeah. I just like to make the greatest YouTube videos possible, and that's literally all I want.
So, yeah, I mean, if it's not the greatest video, I just want to upload it. After you scrap a few videos, everyone kind of starts to figure it out.
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Hasan Minhaj | Does it scare you that you can't stop? Do you ever feel like, "Damn, I'm just throwing all these coals on"?
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Shaan Puri | the | |
Hasan Minhaj | on the embers of the the algorithm | |
James Stephen Donaldson | I like to use a better analogy. It's like a treadmill where I'm at 12, like full speed, and I've been going at it for a couple of years. No, it doesn't scare me.
So, like I was telling him, the way I like to work is that I wake up, obsess over something, go to bed, wake up, obsess, go to bed... every second of the day until I just have a mental breakdown and burn out.
Then, I like to take a day off or maybe a day and a half off, and I go right back to it. I don't work certain days; I just go as hard as I can, every ounce of my entire body, until I just crash. Somehow, that's sustainable. | |
Hasan Minhaj | what time what time do you sleep | |
James Stephen Donaldson | right now usually around 3 am | |
Hasan Minhaj | wow and then what and then and then you get up at like | |
James Stephen Donaldson | whenever the whenever rohan or one of them knock home | |
Hasan Minhaj | tarique will wake you up and just be like | |
James Stephen Donaldson | Well, yeah, people will roll me out of bed. They're like, "You need to go watch this video so we can submit it," or "I need help with the thumbnail," or "You gotta go film." It's like, I don't know, I'm kind of... they tell me what to do. I don't think they're...
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Sam Parr | Gonna let you be shocked at the numbers. So, like, you're the... I don't... I'll let you reveal any numbers, but you have some big numbers for revenue for your other businesses. Yeah, and you have to have infrastructure for that. And so, that's why I was wondering. I was like, because you... you are like this.
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James Stephen Donaldson | oh gotcha yeah so like | |
Sam Parr | On the stereotype, you're like this crazy, creative person who's disorganized, and that's perfect. Yeah, but to sell that much candy and/or burgers, you gotta be organized.
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James Stephen Donaldson | Yeah, so those are all separate entities. For our snack brand, we hired Jim, who helped build RXBAR, and we built a team around him. So that's a whole independent company that doesn't even work out of our studio.
The same thing goes for Peace Burger. That's the beauty; I like to just find people who are the best in the goddamn world at their job and then just empower them and give them money.
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Sam Parr | so how many people work at the studio | |
James Stephen Donaldson | in the studio like 60 because we don't have enough space to fit everyone so that's why we're trying | |
Sam Parr | To build more, but building things just takes forever. Do people like working for you, you think? Well, the reason I'm asking is that I'm curious about these creative types.
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James Stephen Donaldson | fans man | |
Sam Parr | Because the goal is to make one of us a big deal, everyone is working for that. Whereas a lot of other companies, it's like, no, there's like this...
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Hasan Minhaj | It's not necessarily that either. There are also certain projects where I'd be like, "I'd love to learn from you."
So, there have been shows and movies that I've done, like *The Morning Show*. I've never done a sexy one-hour drama. I want to learn from Reese Witherspoon. I want to learn from Jennifer Aniston. I want to learn from the show creators. How do you do that? How do you shoot that? What's that lens? What are you doing?
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Shaan Puri | is that a 50 is that a 75 how do | |
Hasan Minhaj | You do that tracking shot. Why did you do that tracking shot? Let me see the script. Let me see the future script. There are all these things where I'm like, I just want to absorb. I just want to see how you do the whole thing.
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James Stephen Donaldson | you know | |
Hasan Minhaj | What I mean is that it's an additive, positive value for me because most people don't have access to that, you know? Yeah, I mean...
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James Stephen Donaldson | it's simple tariq gotta meet his idol today | |
Hasan Minhaj | oh man bro tariq tariq you gotta set the bar | |
Shaan Puri | Yeah, we had told them that you were coming today to the thing. The look of disappointment when they saw I was the only ground guy there was palpable. They were like, "That ain't hustling."
They're like, "Yo, hustles changed. Budget hustling? Yeah, that ain't hustle."
They're like, "Yo, hustle's changed."
And I'm trying to be funny on top of it, and they're like, "What the...?"
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Sam Parr | fuck cameron really does add ted biden bro | |
Hasan Minhaj | don't do that bro don't do that don't do that | |
Shaan Puri | When we were at your office, you mentioned that you have a big admiration for figures like Elon Musk and Steve Jobs. That's why you enjoy the "How to Take Over the World" podcast; you like learning from them.
What's a story that you heard that really stuck with you? Something you remembered and referenced that kind of changed the way you were thinking?
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James Stephen Donaldson | From those two in particular, I think the biggest thing is that Steve became a billionaire from Pixar, you know, not even Apple.
So, the fact that he could go to this not even hardware company, but a more creative storytelling company, and just kick ass to create films like *Toy Story* and all these other bangers, and just build that company up to whatever it was—then Disney bought it for $7,000,000,000.
Meanwhile, Apple was just falling to the ground and about to go out of business. They were buying back with Next, and all of a sudden, they rebounded. Basically, the way they did it was by getting rid of 90% of products and just focusing on like 4 or 5.
I mean, it just shows the power that one individual had. Even though both companies had, I don't know about Pixar, but Apple had thousands of employees, and Pixar probably had at least 100. Despite all of that, one man can make that much of a difference. The power of having good vision and just not relenting is invaluable.
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Shaan Puri | do you | |
Hasan Minhaj | think your biggest strength is probably your curiosity you're down to do anything | |
James Stephen Donaldson | Well, I think what you have to do is always be learning. That's how you can... like, with our ideas, right? Because we like to do original ideas that no one's ever done before.
I might have told Jude this when we were talking on the phone. The thing is, if there's a hypothetical fruit in Japan that, if you eat it, makes it so you can jump 30 feet taller, right? If that exists in this world right now and you didn't know it existed, you couldn't come up with something around that.
It's very hyper-specific, but there are like a million things like that in the world. If you don't know about it or you're not intaking the inspiration, you can't really come up with something. If I were to try to get into stand-up, that's how I would try to do something different. I would try to take in...
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Sam Parr | a bunch of different information and | |
James Stephen Donaldson | see what spawns in my head so I try to always be learning | |
Hasan Minhaj | Would the Mr. Beast version of stand-up be like, "I'm gonna do the longest set ever"? I'm gonna do the longest comedy set ever. Would that have to be the Mr. Beast twist on it?
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James Stephen Donaldson | I would have to find something different because obviously whatever is currently out there...
Yeah, because I have a bunch of people on my team who are stand-ups. It's been done a bunch of times, so we'd have to figure out something.
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Hasan Minhaj | got it | |
James Stephen Donaldson | Different... which I would love to do one day, just because it seems fun. Streak talks to me about it all the time.
But in general, you gotta always be intaking inspiration from different places, whether it be different podcasts, books, or different knowledge. I have people that I pay who just teach me things—just whatever. Like, what's that thing that I don't know?
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Sam Parr | what what do you mean by that | |
James Stephen Donaldson | They'll just find things that they don't think I'm aware of or show me cool things and be like, "I don't think you know this is a thing. Here, read about it." And so that way, I'm always like...
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Shaan Puri | take what's an example | |
Sam Parr | and how many how many of these people do you have this is awesome | |
James Stephen Donaldson | right now just like 2 or 3 | |
Hasan Minhaj | yeah jimmy they they call those people those are teachers | |
Shaan Puri | yeah okay I mean | |
Sam Parr | he's like he's like | |
Hasan Minhaj | he's like they'll sit me down for about an hour at a time and what's what's wild is they'll focus on a subject | |
Shaan Puri | and it's like it's | |
Hasan Minhaj | what's going on right now | |
Shaan Puri | I never thought about that way | |
Hasan Minhaj | pay them couple hundred grand | |
Shaan Puri | that's why we keep them around that's why we keep | |
James Stephen Donaldson | them around no but it's like different topics | |
Hasan Minhaj | so gotcha gotcha gotcha yeah | |
James Stephen Donaldson | Like the last one was about just crazy online... like these little things where...
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Shaan Puri | yeah | |
James Stephen Donaldson | They'll upload a file to Reddit, and then inside is an encrypted code. This code takes you to a website, which leads you to a book. There are also these little modules, trace puzzles, and I'm just seeing if that inspires me. I don't know, it's just random things like that.
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Hasan Minhaj | I'm blocking my brain | |
James Stephen Donaldson | So, in the end, I'm trying to always expand my knowledge in my head with new things that I can draw inspiration from.
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Hasan Minhaj | I was giving him props earlier when I said that so much of the people who kind of rev the algorithm are usually being divisive. They're saying something that's going to make you mad, right?
Like, I have a joke where I make fun of MDs and DOs. DOs get really mad. You know, it's like that's a niche physician's joke, but people get upset.
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Shaan Puri | right | |
Hasan Minhaj | But what I was saying was, what's so cool about what you do is that I think you've really tapped into **joy**, **spectacle**, and **wonder**. This is a counter to a lot of what we see, and it's very rare to see that really take off on the internet.
So, what made you feel like, "I'm gonna do that," versus creating videos that might agitate people, per se?
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James Stephen Donaldson | Yeah, well, I do think in general it is a little bit easier to piss people off and get attention, for sure. It's a lot harder to do good and get attention, so that's why I think a lot of people don't.
For me, because we just had this ability to go viral, it's just kind of like there's a world where I make videos and I don't help people, and there's a world where I make videos and I do help people. | |
Shaan Puri | the world | |
James Stephen Donaldson | Where I do help people, it's just a little bit more fun. So that's why I do it. I don't, you know, PR-wise, I should have a better answer, but that's kind of the truth. | |
Hasan Minhaj | our software is the worst | |
Shaan Puri | Have you heard of HubSpot?
Most CRMs are a cobbled-together mess, but HubSpot is easy to adopt and actually looks gorgeous.
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James Stephen Donaldson | I think | |
Shaan Puri | I love our new CRM. Our software is the best: HubSpot. Grow better!
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Sam Parr | what creators do you guys look up to | |
James Stephen Donaldson | oh I'm curious to see what you say | |
Hasan Minhaj | what creators do I look up to | |
Sam Parr | youtubers podcasters comedians | |
Shaan Puri | podcasters I | |
Hasan Minhaj | Was gonna say creators... yeah, it could be anybody. I think one of the first people that really inspired me was probably **Steven Spielberg**.
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Sam Parr | really | |
Hasan Minhaj | Yeah, I mean, he's one of the greatest storytellers ever. What was the first movie that you saw where you were like, "Oh my God, I was blown away?" For me, it was *Jurassic Park* as a kid.
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James Stephen Donaldson | I I only watched youtube growing up I've seen | |
Hasan Minhaj | that's it yeah | |
James Stephen Donaldson | I was | |
Shaan Puri | just made | |
James Stephen Donaldson | fun of all the time | |
Hasan Minhaj | what was the last movie that you watched | |
James Stephen Donaldson | well I watched the the spider man 301 because but I never saw the earlier ones | |
Hasan Minhaj | really yeah like you have no time for movies or no time for movies | |
James Stephen Donaldson | No, it's not that time. I just... I don't know. I need to go back and watch *Star Wars* and *Harry Potter* and all that stuff to get caught up on culture. But I was just like...
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Hasan Minhaj | you did and so you didn't see squid game you just did the squid game remake | |
James Stephen Donaldson | squid game I watched it yeah that's when we did it | |
Hasan Minhaj | got it | |
James Stephen Donaldson | Like, I wouldn't count that as a movie. I watched a ton of anime, but yeah, movies... and weirdly enough, growing up, I didn't listen to music or watch movies. So, I was like, so out of culture. It was... | |
Hasan Minhaj | brutal wow | |
James Stephen Donaldson | there's this part of why I was an introvert | |
Shaan Puri | There's this Conor McGregor quote where they're like, you know, he was on BBC or something. They're like, "Oh, it's a bigger appearance, not just a niche UFC thing."
Yeah, they're like, "What do you think about this team or this game?" He's like, "You know, the... yeah, that one you said, they're great." It was...
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Sam Parr | like it was like arsenal or something yeah | |
Shaan Puri | He's like, "Arsenal," and they're like, "You don't know anything about Arsenal," right? He's like, "I don't watch the news. I don't watch, I don't follow the news. I don't watch sports. I don't do anything." He goes, "I have lost my mind to the game. I am obsessed with my game. I have lost my mind to it. I don't have time for anything else. I don't want to know about anything else."
I was like, I only want to know about this game. When we were hanging out, I feel like you had that vibe where you were like, you said a couple of things. You were like, "I decided I was gonna be a YouTuber and I was gonna make great videos. It didn't matter if I died the most famous YouTuber of all time or 90 years old with 1,000 subscribers. I was gonna make great YouTube videos." Like, that's what I decided I was gonna do, and that's all I do. I wake up and I do that thing.
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Hasan Minhaj | what was that first youtube video that you saw that like kind of filled you with that wonder where you're like wow | |
James Stephen Donaldson | Oh, well, this guy actually got hacked a very long time ago. He was a Call of Duty YouTuber, and they leaked his earnings. He had made around $100,000 a year for the last few years. I remember being 10 and thinking, "What the heck? They make that kind of money doing this?" I was just so mind-blown that they actually made money.
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Shaan Puri | they make more than my mom yeah | |
James Stephen Donaldson | It was right there when I was like, "Okay, I'm doing this. I just don't care. I'm being a YouTuber or I'm going to fucking die trying." I just don't care. The second I saw that it was actually possible, that's when I was like, "That's it."
It's funny also talking about obsession and stuff like this because it changes, right? Maybe it's different now because social media is a little bit cooler, but when I was younger, no one wanted to be a YouTuber. Most people when I was 13 or 14 didn't even have phones yet. It was kind of like a little bit of an older thing. Maybe it's just because of where I grew up.
But it's funny because back then, people were like, "Get a life! Stop being a fucking nerd! You're too obsessive, you're a weirdo." And now it's like, "Oh bro, he was so obsessive. It's so great."
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Hasan Minhaj | right it's seen as a positive quality yeah | |
James Stephen Donaldson | And it's so funny, like looking back on my life. I went from a **loser nerd** who was too obsessive and wouldn't go anywhere to, like, "Damn, that's really inspiring." It's like, "Damn, that was very hurtful back then, but that's inspiring now."
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Shaan Puri | and so | |
James Stephen Donaldson | It's funny to see how it changes. I like to bring that up because if there are younger people or parents who have kids who are obsessed like this, that's typically what happens. Younger kids don't understand that it's different.
So, you don't watch the newest *South Park* or the newest movie or whatever, and you don't talk about the same things. Then people are just like, "Oh, well, you know, it fucking sucks."
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Sam Parr | you know what I mean | |
James Stephen Donaldson | how would | |
Hasan Minhaj | How would you deal with that? Because you have kids, and I have kids. If they say, "I want to be a Twitch streamer. I want to be a video gamer," you're like, "Let's go!"
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Shaan Puri | I had the same realization. I was like, "Oh, so wait a minute. We spend the first 18 years of our life trying to fit in." That's how I felt in school. I was trying to fit in all the time. What do people do that's cool? How do I do that thing?
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Hasan Minhaj | right | |
Shaan Puri | And then once I was in the adult world, it's like, "Oh shit." Now we spend our whole life trying to stand out. What was all that other stuff? Why was I so focused on fitting in if the rest of your life you're trying to stand out? I just realized, "Oh shit, standing out has been the game the whole time."
The way you stand out is not by trying to figure it out. Just let whatever you're obsessed with ride, because you'll go on a path that nobody else is going to copy, and then you'll land in a good spot.
So if my kid—my daughter's 2 right now—if she was into gaming or if she was trying to be a creator, all that stuff, I would be all in on it. I know that even if that's not her end game, following your obsession is the thing to do in life. You know, that will always work out.
But you know, if you actually go down that path, what most people do is they hedge. They like this thing, but then they see this path that's more proven or shiny, or they don't know if it's going to work, so they only half try. Right? And then it's like that hedge is actually what gets you. It's not that this career path was that hard; it's that hedging is like... you know.
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Hasan Minhaj | your major in college | |
Shaan Puri | Biology: the ultimate hedge.
That was different. I just didn't know what went on.
Well, what I think is actually, you could be doing the YouTube TikTok. I feel like you can look at his videos and be like, "Alright, I get it. I get why people like this."
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Sam Parr | I get | |
Shaan Puri | Why this pops... probably pretty tempting to be like, "Could I go get 50,000,000 views? A 100,000,000 views? That seems nice."
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Hasan Minhaj | No, no. To do what he's done... what he's done. I'm not allowed to say it. You said you spend a certain number of dollars on every video.
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Shaan Puri | oh yeah I'll let you start it off but you | |
James Stephen Donaldson | can say yeah our average view is around $1,500,000 | |
Hasan Minhaj | I mean that's | |
Shaan Puri | well he he does that | |
Hasan Minhaj | now but if | |
Shaan Puri | You go look at his archive, right? It's like, he took a plastic knife and tried to cut a plastic table, and it took him 48 hours to do. That's a $1.50 video, right? Like, that's not a $1,500,000 video. That's $1.5 million.
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James Stephen Donaldson | zero dollars | |
Hasan Minhaj | It's a different thing. It's a different type of skill set and muscle. The types of videos he's producing, like stand-up, are different. If a musician was here, or if a DJ was here, it's not all the same just because it's on YouTube. We all do different types of media. This is a different type of media.
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Shaan Puri | are you tempted to like you know dabble | |
Sam Parr | yeah we talked about this right I mean | |
Hasan Minhaj | I... the only thing that I would be reticent of is, what if I have to put this thing out and I don't believe in it? Or I'm just doing it just to do it?
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Shaan Puri | that's the | |
Hasan Minhaj | that would be the problem but I have to put up a new video every tuesday that's the just just | |
James Stephen Donaldson | delete the video | |
Hasan Minhaj | I know | |
James Stephen Donaldson | What do you do if you sometimes don't upload for 2 months? If you only upload when it's a great video, then that's all that matters.
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Hasan Minhaj | yeah so I | |
James Stephen Donaldson | I think it's dumb when people stick to a schedule and they're like, "Oh, the video is not great, but I upload every Tuesday." It's like, who cares?
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Shaan Puri | What are you guys trying to figure out right now?
Because I think if you watch a lot of interviews with people, it's like it's all buttoned up. It's all figured out. They're already successful; it's all working.
Then the person who's watching these videos is typically somebody who doesn't have it all figured out. They're just sort of like, "Ah, that's different. That would be nice to have it all figured out."
But the reality is, nobody's got it all figured out. Right? Like, we were in your office, the whiteboard's full because you're thinking of new ideas. Like, "Where are we going? What's not figured out? We gotta figure it out."
So, what's on both of y'all's plates? What are you still trying to figure out in your game?
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James Stephen Donaldson | well I'll let you take it first yeah sean what are | |
Hasan Minhaj | you trying to figure out | |
James Stephen Donaldson | yeah what are you trying to | |
Sam Parr | figure out | |
Hasan Minhaj | yeah come on sean | |
Shaan Puri | I'm trying to figure out I'll tell you I'll try to figure out if I wanna go all in on content creating | |
James Stephen Donaldson | wow | |
Shaan Puri | I basically built businesses. I have the most fun doing this, but I don't know if I have the most fun just because it's a hobby. You know, I only get the good and I don't put all the work in.
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James Stephen Donaldson | and if you love it then go all in I mean it's not gonna be less | |
Sam Parr | do you | |
Shaan Puri | I love it! I love doing it the way we're doing it now.
Yeah, if I was like him, obsessed every hour of every day, trying to be like, "How are we gonna grow this channel?" I might not love it as much.
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Sam Parr | did you like doing the twitter thing | |
Shaan Puri | For a time, it got older. Yeah, it got older. It was fun to chase the number. Can we get to 100,000 in like a few months? Yeah, this is fun to chase a number, but that didn't... yeah, I got.
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Sam Parr | sick of it too | |
Shaan Puri | That didn't last, so that gets me worried. But that's the thing I'm trying to figure out. It's like, should I go all in on content creation, or should I stay with creating businesses? Which one is it? What do I want to be when I grow up? That's the question.
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Sam Parr | I'm asking myself that exact same question too. Because sometimes, like when you're creating a business first and then go to content, I'm like, "Oh man, am I just gonna talk?"
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Shaan Puri | about doing it all the time | |
Sam Parr | or am I just gonna fucking do it yeah so I I I | |
Shaan Puri | I know exactly what you mean | |
Sam Parr | yeah I feel exactly the same way what about you | |
Hasan Minhaj | Right now, I'm trying to stay loose for this game tomorrow. That's what I'm trying to do.
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Shaan Puri | I'm not | |
Hasan Minhaj | I'm trying to get tight, man. I'm 36, pushing 37. He's a young boy; he might run us off the court. Play the... | |
Shaan Puri | game yeah he was he was 24 to 28 yeah I mean | |
James Stephen Donaldson | I was like yo man | |
Shaan Puri | using me and I'm like dude | |
Hasan Minhaj | my l four is hurting like my my hamstrings are kinda tight from this flight | |
Shaan Puri | We got to his studio and he was like, "He's got a hoop there." Yeah, he's like, "Oh, we got 6. Let's play a game."
Yeah, he's wearing his Yeezy slides. I was like, "Bro, I need 15 minutes of stretching." Then, like, you know, I need proper practical attention, and we're going to try to do something pretty much. Do you?
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James Stephen Donaldson | guys wanna cabal yeah if there | |
Hasan Minhaj | was an indoor court we would do it yeah I played I played 10121 with jimmy right now | |
James Stephen Donaldson | yeah okay | |
Hasan Minhaj | that'd be a fun that would be | |
James Stephen Donaldson | a that would | |
Hasan Minhaj | be a fun video that would be a fun video | |
James Stephen Donaldson | you wanna make it happen yeah let's do it you can play 21 | |
Shaan Puri | find a | |
James Stephen Donaldson | court somewhere around here okay | |
Hasan Minhaj | we'll play 21 | |
Sam Parr | we'll play 20 we'll | |
Hasan Minhaj | play 21 or horse yeah | |
Sam Parr | we'll wrap up with this quote with with your with your answer | |
James Stephen Donaldson | okay oh what was the question | |
Shaan Puri | what's not figured out what are you trying to figure out in in oh in | |
James Stephen Donaldson | double to everything so I'm just gonna say a funny joke to change topic alright | |
Shaan Puri | for sure | |
James Stephen Donaldson | basketball how to not train my legs tomorrow | |
Shaan Puri | there you go | |
Hasan Minhaj | there we go |