The Milly Awards 2021
Milli Awards, Investments, Predictions, and 2021 Recap - December 31, 2021 (over 3 years ago) • 01:47:34
Transcript:
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Sam Parr | Dude that's crazy that that that mistake that's a $10,000,000 mistake | |
Shaan Puri | yeah | |
Sam Parr | andrew what's going on dude I'm are you pumped to do that | |
Andrew Wilkinson | I'm really excited! I worked out this morning and feel good. It's a nice sunny day. We had a big dump of snow here, which is actually incredibly rare. Usually, it never goes below freezing, so yeah, it's nice.
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Sam Parr | what'd you do play | |
Andrew Wilkinson |
No, I actually went on my treadmill. I started... It's weird, I was kind of feeling a little low energy over Christmas, and I realized I hadn't worked out. So I was like, "Oh, I'll take..." you know? Am I eating the right thing? Am I doing the right routines? Am I doing my gratitude journal? Sam can't relate.
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Shaan Puri | he's never had that bad habit | |
Andrew Wilkinson | supplements am I taking | |
Shaan Puri | he's never had | |
Andrew Wilkinson | That bad habit worked out. Yeah, I just realized that working out is all you need to do.
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Sam Parr | There's a great quote in this book I was reading called *The Body*. It basically said, "If we could put in pill form all the benefits that exercise gives you, it would be the most successful medicine of all time."
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Shaan Puri | right | |
Sam Parr | and the whole. Of the book was it was called the body by bill berson I or by | |
Andrew Wilkinson | bill bryson | |
Shaan Puri | I | |
Andrew Wilkinson | love that book | |
Sam Parr | And he's just a... he's like, basically, sleep and exercise are the cure to most everything.
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Andrew Wilkinson | yeah it's crazy I love his writing he's he's great | |
Sam Parr | do we wanna get into this sean | |
Shaan Puri | Yeah, let's do it! We did this last year, and I think it was probably my favorite episode. Last year, we called it the **Millie Awards**. We had an awards ceremony at the end of the year. Andrew came on, and we did it in 2020 at the end of the year.
I actually went back and listened to it, which is, you know, cringey to listen to your own voice recorded, but it was a really entertaining episode. We made a bunch of predictions. I even noted some of them down. I don't know if you guys saw that—some of the things we had said last year.
So, we're going to do it again, and we're going to try to make this an annual tradition. We'll see how it goes.
Alright, so without further ado, here we are: the **2021 Millie Awards**! We are back, and here's how it works. We have a bunch of different categories. The three of us did our research and thought about who we think is the winner for each. We did not tell each other or show each other our answers, so if we have the same answers, it's just a coincidence. Great minds think alike!
We're going to react to how each one goes, and I have a little side game here. I'm going to play—I have this little notepad, and I'm just going to take notes of who I think wins each category in terms of their answers. We'll see who brings the heat during this thing.
I got Sam, I got Sean, I got Andrew. I'll put a little tally for each, and I'm the only judge. You guys can chime in on that, but I'm just going to keep note of how we do for this whole episode.
Alright, did I miss anything? Sam, are we good to go?
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Sam Parr | And we... what am I? Alright, so I have two documents. I have one document with my answers, and then I've got the other document that has last year's answers.
So I think what we should do is you can lead. You could say like the category, and then you could say, "Here's what last year's are."
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Shaan Puri | right okay so we'll | |
Andrew Wilkinson | or we're alright | |
Shaan Puri | So, we'll start with the breakout company. This is the 2021 breakout company. It's a company that kind of exploded. | |
Sam Parr | wait no billy of the year is first sean | |
Shaan Puri | Okay, you want to go in the actual order? We can go in the actual order.
Alright, so "Billy of the Year" is number 1. Then we do "Billy of the Week" sometimes on the pod. So this is "Billy of the Year." It doesn't have to be somebody who's a new billionaire, but it's just a billionaire who had a hell of a year last year.
Sam said Chuck Feeney. Who is Chuck Feeney? He's the guy from Blockbuster and all that stuff, or is that somebody else?
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Sam Parr | No, he's just a... he was a... he started a business where they sell items at airports. But he gave away duty-free... yeah, duty-free, but he gave away all of it.
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Shaan Puri | gave away all of it so we gave away | |
Sam Parr | like $10,000,000,000 andrew had mark leonard who's | |
Shaan Puri | I think the CEO of Constellation Software, is that right? You know, maybe you know somebody you respect who runs a similar playbook. They buy great companies, own them for a long time, and are very stealthy and secretive.
You shared a bunch of cool stories about how he keeps a low profile. Then I had Eric Yuan, who is the CEO of Zoom, because I thought Zoom sort of saved the world during the pandemic and let the world continue to run.
So, I had Eric Yuan. So, who do we have for this year? We'll start with "Sam Billy of the Year." Who you got?
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Sam Parr | dharmesh the cto and cofounder of hubspot he came on our pod | |
Andrew Wilkinson | just sucking | |
Shaan Puri | up to your boss | |
Sam Parr | Well, yeah, I mean, I guess. But he just had the ideal outlook on life. I think he had an amazing job. He basically said no one reports to him, and he doesn't report to anyone. I think he... I don't know, what's he worth? Like $2,000,000,000? Whatever HubSpot stock is worth. I thought he was pretty amazing; he had a good outlook.
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Shaan Puri | and what was the outlook that you like | |
Andrew Wilkinson | I thought the most interesting thing about Darmesh is exactly what you said. Instead of thinking, "Okay, I'm either all in or I'm all out," he kind of said, "You know what? I'm just gonna do this stuff I like."
He's kind of a floater; he just kind of floats around within the company, and I thought that was really cool.
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Sam Parr | And he was nice. The thing about Dharmesh is that he's nice, friendly, and calm. I really enjoyed that about him. He's not a type A, or he is type A in that he's competitive, but he's not trying to out-alpha people. He's very comfortable in his own skin.
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Shaan Puri | or andrew who you got billy of the year | |
Andrew Wilkinson | So, mine... it was actually a guy I randomly met. I was at this cocktail party at a house in my neighborhood, and I was talking to this guy. I started asking him what he did, and he said he was in the beverage space. He started mentioning names that I kind of knew, like Mission Hill Winery, which is a big winery up here.
Anyway, it turns out this guy is worth **$8,000,000,000** and he owns a beverage-focused holding company called Marc Anthony Group. This guy's name is Anthony Von Mandel, and his story is pretty crazy.
He started a little wine importing business in Vancouver and made enough money to buy a winery called Mission Hill. He took on a ton of debt; it was like dirt floors and had only a few barrels of wine. He turned it around and made it into a solid business.
Then, he hit it big when he was trying to diversify and started a company called Mike's Hard Lemonade, which I'm sure you guys have heard of. This is an insane story: in the nineties, people would have fights in the liquor store over the last couple of bottles of Mike's Hard. It went into the States and sold, by the way...
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Sam Parr | in its first name in america we like make fun of people who drinks like it's like a joke like mike's hard | |
Andrew Wilkinson | Totally! Well, the idea they had was that men are too embarrassed to drink coolers. So, they thought, "Let's make a cooler they can kind of not be too embarrassed to drink."
Anyway, he ended up building that into a massive business. He also started White Claw a couple of years ago, which is like the same idea but healthier. Now, they do $4,000,000,000 in revenue last year in 2020.
The craziest thing about this guy is that he owns, I believe, 100% of the business and he has no debt. He's been almost in bankruptcy multiple times, so it was just totally crazy.
He's a local entrepreneur who just knocked it out of the park. I'm obsessed with these guys who have taken a risk and done it 100% themselves. They didn't have VCs or investors, so it's just an amazing story.
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Sam Parr | wow that's a good one | |
Shaan Puri | that's a good one I didn't realize the mike's heart the company that has mike's hard also does white claw which is amazing it's basically a reboot of the similar concept totally okay alright what about you my billy of the year so I had 2 alright so I have I have the eye roll one which is elon musk but it's not for the reason that most people would think as you know one of the maybe top three slogans of this podcast is bet on yourself and elon several years ago did a bet on yourself comp compensation plan that you guys probably remember I don't know if everybody knows about this I'll summarize it and I'm kind of hand waving through some of the details just to be quicker about it but basically tesla at the time I think it was 5 years ago was at about a $50,000,000,000 market cap and people the rumor was elon's gonna leave and he might you know go just focus on spacex full time and he had a negotiation with the board and basically said okay I'll stay but here's the compensation plan I want and he sketched out a plan he said look you'll only pay me if I increase shareholder value and he got no guaranteed money and he basically did it where in rough strokes every 50,000,000,000 in market cap they added he would get another 1% of the company and so it was at 50,000,000,000 so he'd have to get it to a 100,000,000,000 to get anything if he got to 99 he got nothing and so he had to get it to a 100 to get any more for all his hard work and I remember there's a great clip if you go to youtube and you just Google you just you just search for elon musk compensation plan you know cnbc there's this clip of the anchors making fun of him because they're like oh yeah and like you know this plan is is unprecedented it has this far fetched idea that if he could get over 600,000,000,000 you know elon would get this huge unlock if he gets to that reward but you know I think we could safely say like you know it's never gonna happen like you know why even include that in there and sure enough this year tesla crosses all that he hits every single part of the compensation plan I think it's a it's a now a $1,000,000,000,000 company and basically the guy called a shot he bet on himself and and hit all of it so I really like that like the betting on yourself aspect of it so that's why I give it to elon | |
Sam Parr | what was the second one | |
Shaan Puri | the second one again a little bit of a of a expected answer but not not for the reason you think so vitalik buterin who's the cocreator of of ethereum he's worth himself probably 1,600,000,000 I think as of the based on the like the value of ethereum today something like that 1 or $2,000,000,000 but he was one of the like there's all these new projects constantly launching and one of the ways that projects were trying to get hype in marketing is that they would just send some of their project into vitalik's wallet his public wallet and they would say look vitalik holds our coin so you should too and then the other thing that they would so that was the first marketing scheme people would do and people fell for it they were like oh if vitalik is investing in this I'll invest in it too but like he didn't actually invest in it they just sent it for free just shoved it in his wallet the second thing that people were doing was they were using vitalik as sort of like a lock up they were like look we sent so one one coin that came out the shiba inu coin which is like a dog another dog coin like dogecoin they sent I think 6 5 or $6,000,000,000 worth of their coin to vitalik's wallet to to essentially lock it up they're like look that's all there it can't be sold and so not like can't be sold like it's there so you don't have to worry about like you know who owns this thing vitalik owns this thing and it was partly marketing it was partly their their way of like locking away some of the supply and what vitali did was pretty awesome india was going through a really tough patch in covid so he got this thing and what he did was he donated a $1,000,000,000 of it immediately to india and then he dumped the other 5,000,000,000 and just burned it and just said you know so so that like it would so that the price if he if he sold it all on the open market it would it would crash the price so instead he took 5,000,000,000 and just eliminated it from the pool and gave a $1,000,000,000 to india kept none of it for himself and helped a lot of people in india out and he did this like overnight as soon as he got it and I just thought that that was like you know a pretty remarkable thing from a pretty you know remarkable guy who | |
Sam Parr | he's that guy's amazing | |
Andrew Wilkinson | it's really cool | |
Sam Parr | That guy and the Sam Bankman guy are probably the two most interesting people I think in the world at the moment.
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Shaan Puri | Yeah, the cool thing about this, for those who don't remember, is the Sam Bankman-Fried guy. He's currently the wealthiest known person from crypto. So, you know, nobody knows who Satoshi is, but Sam Bankman-Fried is the next one. He's got like $15 or $20 billion net worth from crypto, including the exchange he created.
If you listen to interviews, he's not like any other crypto zealot. He just is like, "Yeah, I don't care about crypto. I don't believe in it or not believe in it. People want this, so I made a product." That's his whole mindset.
He also is obsessed with this idea of... I forgot what it's called. There's some philanthropic thing he's really into. Sam, do you remember the name of this? It's like charitable ambition or some shit like that. It's like, yeah, he basically... woah.
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Sam Parr | he was basically yeah | |
Andrew Wilkinson | real | |
Sam Parr | The idea is basically that I'm just going to get as wealthy as possible and give it all away to different causes. It's okay for me to be incredibly ambitious and pursue these things I don't really care about because I'm just giving it away anyway.
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Shaan Puri | and he's giving it away like during his lifetime said last year's | |
Sam Parr | alright breakout company you go for | |
Shaan Puri | Alright, breakout company. I have OpenSea. So, just to give you a sense of OpenSea's crazy growth.
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Sam Parr | I had that too by the way | |
Shaan Puri | It started in 2017, and the bear market hit pretty much immediately. I know people who were building their competitors, and they ended up folding because there was just no interest. These guys were like the cockroaches that just stayed alive.
In 2020, they did $24,000,000 in GMV. Pretty small overall.
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Sam Parr | and they get 10% of that | |
Shaan Puri | they have I don't know what their take rate is something like I think it's even lower than that I think it's 5% or something they okay | |
Sam Parr | but in that range | |
Shaan Puri | So, it was very small: $24,000,000 in gross sales across the platform. That's not their sales; that's people buying from each other. So, they just get a small take. This year, it's $15,000,000,000.
Going from $24,000,000 to $15,000,000,000 in one year, that's 650 times. To me, that's a breakout company. I know we've talked about this.
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Andrew Wilkinson | them before so it's not a | |
Shaan Puri | big surprise but I I had to give it to them | |
Sam Parr | So, I had that as well, but I came with a backup because I actually thought that you were going to pick that. I had OpenSea as well. I think it's amazing that they basically just kind of created a market, and I think that's pretty badass. Or at least, they're part of a market that was nonexistent a couple of years ago.
Alright, so my second one is someone who we talked about. I'm going to botch his first name, but his last name is Levels. What's his first name?
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Andrew Wilkinson | peter levels peter | |
Sam Parr | p is it peter is it just peter I thought okay | |
Andrew Wilkinson | I think it's peter | |
Sam Parr | I thought it was a a weird let's call | |
Andrew Wilkinson | him pieter just to bother you | |
Sam Parr | it was pieter to be honest but I'm gonna call him peter | |
Shaan Puri | alright so this guy it's pieter like pieter that's how we're gonna call him | |
Sam Parr | That's what I thought it was. I thought there was an "I" in there in some weird area.
But we talked about this guy a couple of episodes ago. I've actually been paying attention to him for like three years. As far as I can tell, it's a one-person business. For the longest time, he would reveal all of his revenue, and for years it was like $200,000 to $300,000 a year in revenue.
He has a bunch of different products. He's got NomadList.com, RemoteOK.com, Workers.co, and he even has a cool website called Rebase, which is all about moving to Portugal. So he's got like eight different websites. For the longest time, only like $300,000 to $500,000 a year in revenue—neat, but not that cool.
This year, he got close to $5,000,000 in revenue, and for a one-person internet business, that's pretty phenomenal. The remote thing has basically kind of caught up with him, and he's crushing it. This guy's an artist; I love him. I think he's kind of his own entity, and I think that he, for me, was the breakout person of the year behind OpenSea.
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Andrew Wilkinson | Yeah, I think that guy kind of has my dream life. It's funny that I say that because I do own similar businesses. But I've always fetishized the idea of being a one-person entrepreneur and being able to do that level of revenue. I just kind of got ahead of myself.
It's so interesting. I have a lot of respect for him because I think he still shares his numbers. Most of the guys that get to this scale almost always stop sharing because everyone realizes how much money they're making. | |
Sam Parr |
I have a story of a guy who's going to come on the podcast soon. I've been talking to him, and he made $10,000,000 a year in profit in the early 2000s from a lyrics website that was around for years. So I have a one-person [success story]...
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Andrew Wilkinson | milun milun tessevic | |
Sam Parr | no but he is | |
Andrew Wilkinson | he's similar similar story | |
Sam Parr | he's a he's a russian jewish guy is that guy a russian jewish guy didn't didn't | |
Shaan Puri | that guy also make like a drink | |
Andrew Wilkinson | I don't know he used | |
Sam Parr | not a drink company european oh my guy no | |
Shaan Puri | Okay, that guy Malone, didn't he do something else that's really remarkable? Like, he did the lyrics thing, and isn't he doing some other interesting stuff?
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Andrew Wilkinson | he works at expo | |
Sam Parr | right | |
Andrew Wilkinson | he's a partner at expo | |
Shaan Puri | Gotcha. Alright, Andrew, who do you have? Sam has this weird indie breakout company. It's not a company; it's just... bro.
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Sam Parr | I chose OBC. That's the most obvious one. I chose that. I chose that one too, so I had to get unique.
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Shaan Puri | so far I'm mister obvious sam's mister suck up and let's see if andrew's got something good here | |
Andrew Wilkinson | so I wasn't trying to be better | |
Sam Parr | I was just trying to be different | |
Andrew Wilkinson | So, if there's one thing I really, really don't like, it's middlemen—realtors, investment bankers, that kind of stuff.
I love this company, MicroAcquire. For a long time, if you wanted to buy a tech business, you were going to these crappy listing websites with really low-quality businesses. This guy, Andrew, basically came along and started this company called MicroAcquire. It's for generally profitable SaaS businesses on the web, and he's just done a really, really nice job of doing it.
I'd say it's kind of like Zillow for buying a tech business. He has replaced Flippa and all these other kinds of crappy websites, so I'm a big fan of what he's doing.
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Sam Parr | and he's picking 5 of these roles | |
Andrew Wilkinson | like $10,000,000 or something like that we're all | |
Shaan Puri | investors I think right | |
Sam Parr | I am | |
Andrew Wilkinson | I I didn't invest but but I think it's a good one | |
Sam Parr | well I invested a small a very small amount like $5,000 or $1,000 or something like tiny | |
Shaan Puri | I did | |
Sam Parr | But he's picking fights with people online too. He's kind of making himself out to be a villain to a certain group of people. We'll see if that ends up being a good idea.
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Andrew Wilkinson | who's he going after | |
Sam Parr | I forget the funny | |
Shaan Puri |
The thing is, I think he's going after two groups. He's basically saying:
1. Bootstrappers need some love. Like, if you're a profitable company, why is that getting no attention?
2. He's going after TechCrunch because they don't cover those types of companies. They basically work for the VCs. That's kind of his angle.
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Andrew Wilkinson | I think | |
Shaan Puri | It's a good angle. He created a rival publication, I think called "The Bootstrappers," to just take a shot at TechCrunch. I was like, "I will cover these companies if you guys aren't going to."
But then the only hypocrisy is that he's raising a bunch of venture capital. So I think, you know, that part breaks down a little bit. However, I think he's doing a good job of picking a fight.
This is General's Twitter strategy, which is if you totally sell out to your mission, it's both a good and a bad thing.
There’s a guy I was friendly with, Chris Heard. He created a company around remote work that helps manage companies' laptops and desks. They assist with your desk setup when you work from home. So he just tweets about how remote work is taking over and how everything else is going to die.
He just keeps beating that drum every day, talking about how the office is dead and remote work is on the rise. He cannot be wrong, and it’s just a total brainwashing of content. But, you know, it's pretty effective when people do that. I can't really bring myself to do that exactly, but it works.
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Sam Parr | okay so who I would give it to opensea | |
Shaan Puri | oh I'm getting it okay great I love it | |
Sam Parr | right | |
Shaan Puri | yeah great I'll | |
Sam Parr | microacquire is cool but opensea is just there's levels | |
Shaan Puri | and microacquire | |
Andrew Wilkinson | Honestly, I would do yours, man. I think yours is the most unique.
I think OpenSea had a big win, but it's like, you know, I think venture-backed, kind of like of the moment crypto stuff, mine I think everyone knows about.
But I think what Peter's doing is very unique. When you think about lifestyle, I think he has the best possible lifestyle of any of the people you've heard of.
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Shaan Puri | And what's the story where a guy goes to a party hosted by someone like, you know, a Rockefeller type? His friend is saying, "This guy is the richest man in the world. He's got everything. He's got this, he's got that, he's got cars, he's got servants, he's got everything."
Then the guest responds, "Yeah, but I have something he'll never have... enough."
And yeah, that's Kurt Vonnegut.
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Sam Parr | yeah it was kurt vonnegut and joseph heller I think right | |
Andrew Wilkinson | mhmm | |
Shaan Puri | So that's the version of, you know, Andrew. You had Peter Levels, but you didn't have enough. And so you kept going. There's a part of you that envies that lifestyle still. Alright, we're giving it to Sam.
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Andrew Wilkinson | Once you start, once you get an office, and once you have employees, you have this beast to feed. Whereas Peter could just check out. | |
Sam Parr | Right, one of these days we should do a story of someone who has done that. Who went one way and then just said, "Ah, forget it! We're going to go the opposite," and went back.
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Shaan Puri | I love those stories | |
Sam Parr |
Alright, I get this one. Alright, so the unsexy simple business that you saw this year... I'll go first. We talked about it. This guy named Quinn - I think his name is Quinn Emmett. Is that the guy's name?
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Shaan Puri | snyder right | |
Sam Parr | is it snyder I don't remember what it was | |
Andrew Wilkinson | oh shit | |
Sam Parr | But he had a vending machine business. He started working in sales at some tech company. I did a little checkup on him, and he's doing about $30,000 a month in revenue, with half of that being profit.
He basically started with $1,500 and has some vending machines throughout his city. I forget where he is, California I think. He now has software that tells him when the machines need to be refilled, and he says he only works 10 hours a week on it. I think that's pretty cool. I think that's pretty awesome.
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Shaan Puri | I love that, by the way. Quinn Snyder's a basketball coach, so he's definitely not Quinn Snyder. He's something else.
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Sam Parr | I think it was emmett quinn emmett | |
Shaan Puri | andrew who you got for best unsexy or simple business that you saw this year I feel like you see | |
Andrew Wilkinson | a ton | |
Shaan Puri | of these so this is probably the easiest category for you | |
Andrew Wilkinson | I see a lot, and I looked at a bunch of ones that people had brought us. I just can't really share, but this is one I came across recently that I think is genius.
So, some guy went and basically built a fake interior of a private jet in Los Angeles. They used a movie set or whatever, and then they just rent it out to influencers. This way, they can take photos that look like they're on a private jet, but they're not. They charge $70 an hour, and I think it's booked out for like 12 hours a day.
They're probably doing like $20,000 to $40,000 a month, and I can't imagine the margins would be less than 80%. I was like, "That's amazing!" You could just build this thing, hire a bunch of people in the movie business to build it over a weekend, and then you can own that for years.
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Sam Parr | what was it called | |
Andrew Wilkinson | It's a private jet studio. It's on Pure Space, which is like a photo shoot studio listing. That's awesome!
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Shaan Puri | That's a great one! Alright, I have one. I'm going to steal this from our friend of the pod, Cody Sanchez. Sam, you sent this link earlier, and I think this is a great one.
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Sam Parr | did you take the one that I sent you because she has a bunch of | |
Shaan Puri | good ones that's the | |
Andrew Wilkinson | one I'm | |
Shaan Puri | That's what I'm taking. It was better than the one I had, so I was like, "Oh, we'll use this one instead."
By the way, her TikTok has blown up, so she's always on my feed. She's crazy!
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Sam Parr | dude her last one just got 10,000,000 views | |
Shaan Puri | That's insane! She has half a million followers now on TikTok. I always see them when I'm using TikTok a bunch, and I'm always like, "Oh..." In my head, I would just see like, I don't know, 30 comments, and I'd be like, "Oh, you know, TikTok's so hard."
When I saw that it actually has added up, it's just another reminder of the value of just keeping going and compounding the wins over time.
So, she was doing this thing. She goes, "Here's a boring business that you love, and it's called American Striping." All it is, is this woman who owns this business that just paints the white lines you need for a road lane, basically, or like a parking spot. You know, it's like, "I need to paint these white straight lines."
So, she has this company, American Striping. I think it started about three years ago, and you know, $400,000 the first year, $7,000,000 the second year, and $15,000,000 almost the third year. Just crushing it! Absolutely crushing it. | |
Sam Parr | and according to cody 70% profit | |
Shaan Puri | Yes, exactly! Somewhere with 60-70% profit margins. I don't know much about it because, again, my research was watching this TikTok 5 minutes before this pod.
But what a beautiful business! And what a great reminder that, you know, you read about Elon Musk and you're like, "Oh, I have to send rockets to Mars." Then you read about the girl who's like, "I drop straight white lines and I can make a million dollars a year."
It just reminds you that you can win the game any way. So she's my pick.
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Andrew Wilkinson | I love that | |
Sam Parr | I I'd vote for that one | |
Shaan Puri | Okay, I'm gonna take that in honor of Cody. So we are at 111 right now, so we're 1 each. By the way, I have a little honorable mention here: an unsexy business that's done extremely well. Have you guys looked at Crocs' stock?
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Sam Parr | yeah crushing it thanks to post malone | |
Shaan Puri | Dude, in March 2020, when the pandemic happened, you could have bought a pair of Crocs for, I don't know how much Crocs go for—let's call it $100, maybe a little less. You could buy a pair of Crocs and you could buy the stock for $10 a share.
It's now up 13 times in one year! Just during the pandemic, it was good for Crocs. I just thought that was like an amazing winner out of this pandemic time. Is it postal? Who's driving it?
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Sam Parr | He was... he kind of hopped on that trend really early. Then they created this new thing called like "Croc charms." I forgot what they're called, but they're like charms that you put on your Crocs. If you drive around the Midwest or in the South...
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Shaan Puri | like how do we make it rigglier what could we do let's dangle charms off of | |
Sam Parr | do you know what I'm talking about | |
Andrew Wilkinson | like my wife is obsessed with these and she buys them for our kids and puts them on the electronics | |
Sam Parr | Yeah, it's like you get a soccer ball pin or a football pin, or some cartoon, and the kids are obsessed with it. They're crushing it right now. Post Malone started making them popular, and a lot of country music people, like Luke Combs—so you probably have no idea who that is—started wearing camouflage Crocs.
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Shaan Puri | Gotcha! Yeah, who knew? By the way, Sam, I got another real quick pop quiz for you. Hands up! I see you're not looking it up. I want you to guess the monthly visitors to OnlyFans.com.
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Sam Parr | 20,000,000 a month | |
Shaan Puri | okay you're close it's 250,000,000 you're off by 10 x an order of magnitude | |
Sam Parr | is it really | |
Shaan Puri | That was going to be my other unsexy business. It was actually the business of sexy, which was like... I had no idea they get 250,000,000 visitors per month. That's insane. | |
Sam Parr | that'd be one of the top websites in the world | |
Shaan Puri | Then there's another one called **Chatterbait**. That's, you know, a broke fans version of **OnlyFans**. I think it's **$300,000,000**. Oh my god, it's insane! So, you know...
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Sam Parr | but didn't crazy shit onlyfans did they say that they're no longer allowing nudity | |
Shaan Puri | they did for a second and then they reversed course on that | |
Sam Parr | stupid this is pornhub saying like no more porn | |
Shaan Puri | yeah facebook's like no more photos you know it's it doesn't work | |
Sam Parr | that's so stupid | |
Shaan Puri |
By the way, average visit duration: 4 minutes.
Alright, we'll go to the next category: your best investment.
Okay, so what was your best investment of 2021? Let's kick it off with Andrew.
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Andrew Wilkinson | So, I would say the boring answer is the Aeropress, I think. But I've already talked about that on the podcast. We bought that maybe 4 or 5 months ago, and that's been awesome so far. However, that story hasn't played out yet.
In the last year, we haven't really done that much, so the best thing that I've been buying for myself is actually a company called Pershing Square Holdings. I don't think I've talked about it. I have about 95% of my net worth in tiny and kind of core businesses, but I've been quietly building a backup, forever-rich retirement portfolio of stocks, real estate, and brick-and-mortar businesses. We own a chain of restaurants and a hotel. | |
Shaan Puri | wait what restaurant | |
Andrew Wilkinson | do you have stuff I just own a bunch of restaurants in victoria | |
Sam Parr | oh no what is that | |
Andrew Wilkinson | a hotel in saint louis | |
Sam Parr | oh with marshall | |
Andrew Wilkinson | yeah yeah with marshall exactly | |
Sam Parr | is the hotel business cool | |
Andrew Wilkinson | It's amazing! Basically, we bought an apartment building and converted it into all Airbnb units. We purchased it super cheap, and now it's yielding a profit.
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Shaan Puri | to you guys are you a billionaire maybe you're my billy of the year | |
Andrew Wilkinson | I don't think not yet working on it alright that sounds like | |
Shaan Puri | sounds like you had to think about it that means you might be round upping to it | |
Andrew Wilkinson | No, I don't think I am. I don't really have a good picture on that stuff.
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Sam Parr | that's a good answer though | |
Andrew Wilkinson | I don't businesses | |
Sam Parr | if the answer is I don't think I am then the answer then then that's a good sign | |
Shaan Puri | yeah what's that people say I don't I don't | |
Andrew Wilkinson | I don't spend a lot of time on that stuff because, you know, a lot of people who are billionaires on paper, it doesn't really matter, right? You could invest in some startup, it could get valued at $20,000,000,000, and you can own 1%.
Whatever the case, I just don't spend too much time on that. So anyway, I've been thinking about this, and I go, "If everything goes pear-shaped, I want to still be rich, and I want to have enough money to live a great life."
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Shaan Puri | but isn't and so | |
Sam Parr | and that's by that guy you like right | |
Shaan Puri | bill ackman | |
Andrew Wilkinson | Yeah, so I've been following Bill for 5 or 6 years. I found that he had this holding company called Pershing Square Holdings. What he did is really smart.
He had a hedge fund, and when you have a hedge fund, you have a whole bunch of investors. They give you cash to invest, but at any given time, they can freak out and take their money back. So, you could be in a down market, you know, you could own an amazing business, and you could be forced to sell at the wrong time because an investor redeems.
He created this holding company in Amsterdam. I think he raised $4 billion and called it Pershing Square Holdings. It's basically a public holding company that just owns a bunch of stocks. It owns really great stuff like Chipotle, Domino's, Hilton, Lowe's, Restaurant Brands International (so like Burger King, Popeyes, that kind of stuff), and Universal Music.
It's this really diversified blue-chip stock portfolio. As I dug into it, I realized that it perpetually trades at a discount to the net assets there. So, if there's $100 worth of stocks, it trades at about $70, meaning that the market could go down 30% before you've lost any money in the portfolio.
Then, on top of that, you have Bill Ackman managing your money. He does crazy things like last year, he turned $25 million into $2.7 billion, and I got to ride along with him on that.
So anyway, I've been buying that almost exclusively. I've got probably like 60% of my portfolio in this, and I just keep buying more and more every month. I've quadrupled my money, I think, over the last couple of years, so that's awesome. | |
Shaan Puri | That crazy trade he made last year, the COVID trade, was that out of these vehicles or was that out of a separate vehicle?
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Andrew Wilkinson | yeah that was in this vehicle okay and anyone could've bought that yeah | |
Shaan Puri | you told me that this was in buy it actually last last year or stuff like that oh yeah | |
Sam Parr | yeah you've talked about those you like | |
Shaan Puri | okay great so that's a good one sam what you got your best investment | |
Sam Parr | I bought a big lot in Austin. Kinda boring, but I bought a big lot in Austin. I used an asset-backed loan, so I used cash to buy it. I told them I bought it in cash, but in reality, it was a loan at a 1% interest rate.
The story hasn't played out yet, but it's already appreciated because I've gotten offers on it. I'll make about $500,000 in tax-free profit with very little work. The work that I've been doing on it is fun. I'm learning a skill; I'm learning how to develop a home profitably.
So, that's going to be my... it's probably not my best investment, just like investing in the S&P 500, which is up 30%. I mean, that's not much of an investment; I didn't do anything.
So, my Austin real estate project will be the most actively managed thing that I think I will be doing and will make the most.
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Shaan Puri | That's a good one, by the way. The YouTube video on your personal YouTube channel, "Is it Sampar or The Sampar," is great.
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Sam Parr | just my name | |
Shaan Puri | you you show the the lot the the kind of like the rundown shack that's there today it's great | |
Sam Parr | it's fun right | |
Shaan Puri | It may be... it's way more in it. Watch that, and what you just said will be way more entertaining. It's great.
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Andrew Wilkinson | But I also feel like you might make $500, but if you'd made $5,000,000 passively, it wouldn't feel as good as... exactly.
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Sam Parr | That's why I'm saying, because you've done it. It's my best... it's best because it's fun. I'm basically developing a skill, and it's been quite fun. The tax implications are quite nice.
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Shaan Puri | Yeah, that's great! Okay, good. My best investment? I'm going to go with this startup that I invested in.
So, last year—I think it was last year—yeah, last year I created a rolling fund. It basically said, "Hey, if anybody wants to invest in startups alongside me, you know, you don't have to have the network, you don't have to have the knowledge. All you gotta have is the cash. You can do this."
I was like, "Okay, I want to start this off. I want to make it enticing for somebody to join." Because you could invest in a number of people who are professional, full-time investors who have been doing this for a decade.
So, I was kind of thinking, "Why would somebody invest in me?" I said, "Let me juice it up a little bit. Let me put three of my personal angel investments into this deal, into this fund." So, they'll be able to say, "Look, I get to sort of like, I get grandfathered into these deals that you've already done."
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Sam Parr | that's very kind of you and stupid | |
Shaan Puri | Well, it was self-serving. I wanted my fun to get subscribers quickly, so I was like, "How do I provide more value here? Here's some free value."
Now, looking back, it actually has turned out to be very kind. The very first deal that I put in is a company called Deal (D-E-E-L). What Deal does is it's the easiest way to hire a contractor.
I wanted to hire this guy in Australia, the guy who actually first edited our podcast. I was like, "How do I pay this podcast editor in Australia?" So I thought, "Do I need to go get a lawyer to make a contract? How do I pay them in this local currency? What are the compliance rules around that? How much taxes do I need to pay?" I didn't understand all this.
So I went to Deal, and literally in 5 minutes, I was like, "Here's the guy's name, here's his email address, here's where he lives." It's like, "Here's a contract. Would you like to add a confidentiality clause?" I said, "Yeah, yeah, toss that in." It was like guac on my burrito; you know, I'll go for that.
Then it was like, "Great, it's sent for signature, and the payments will come out of your bank account. It'll pay him in Australian dollars automatically every month." I was like, "Wow, that was kind of magical. It basically replaced what a bunch of humans would have to do."
So I ended up chasing down the founder, and I was like, "Yo, your product is amazing! How do I invest in this?" He was like, "Oh, you know, I'd love to have you."
I didn't invest right then, and when I followed up, he was like, "Oh dude, we just closed a thing. Sorry, I forgot. You didn't follow up." So, I missed the first round, and then I almost missed the second round.
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Sam Parr | what was the valuation of the first one | |
Shaan Puri | First one might have been... I don't remember exactly, but it's like a startup, you know? Maybe a $12 million cap or a $20 million cap, something like that.
So he's like, "Don't worry, I'll get you into the next round." I was like, "Okay, great."
Then he messages me one day and says, "Brother, you know I got your spot for you. Your next round's coming together. Let me know." I'm like, "Oh, I'm in $25K, no questions asked."
He's like, "Great, got you in." I was like, "Actually, you know, one question, I guess. What is the valuation? What does it happen to be?"
And he's like, "You know, I don't know if I can say this... probably I can say this. It was like $1 million."
I was like, "What?" And I was like, "Okay." I didn't want to go back on my word because I like the product, I like the founder a lot, and I was like, "I said I'm in, so I'm in."
I was like, "Shit, okay, whatever." Then I was like, "You know, do you have like crazy traction? How are you getting this thing?"
And he's like, "You know, we're doing well, but..." he told me the number, and I was like, "That's an absurd valuation for this thing. I was like, who's doing this deal?"
And it was Andreessen who was doing the deal. I was like, "These guys are nuts. Well, I don't know why they're doing this, but whatever." I wrote the check, did it anyway.
It was valued this year at $5.5 billion, like, you know, two years later. They said he and the founder tweeted this out, so I can share this.
They ramped up revenue from $4 million to $50 million in ARR in one year, and they went from 50 employees to 550 employees in one year.
So this is just like an insane amount of traction. That's like, you know, actually Andreessen knew what they were doing. They bet on this before because I think the revenue was definitely less than $4 million at the time. It was valued at $200 million.
So, you know, the value investor in Andrew would have been dying in that moment. It just didn't make any sense. It didn't make sense to me even, but this has turned out to be a pretty amazing deal, you know.
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Sam Parr | So, if not including dilution, which is a big factor here, take that for what it's worth.
So, $12,000,000 into 5.5 billion is 458. Your $25,000 in that 12 round would have been worth over $11,000,000.
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Shaan Puri | Yes, exactly. My buddy Ryan did that deal at that round and reminded me about the crazy markup. So, you know, the $25,000 has turned into half a million. But man, that's the difference between half a million and $12,000,000. Following up... oh my God!
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Sam Parr | alright good win | |
Shaan Puri | so wait is this my best investment or worst investment maybe this is my worst investment actually I mean | |
Sam Parr | 25 k into half a1000000 is good | |
Shaan Puri | By the way, well, it would have been good. Then I put it in the rolling fund. So now, you know, most of the economics went to my investors too. Dude, that's...
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Sam Parr | crazy that that that mistake that's a $10,000,000 mistake | |
Shaan Puri | Yeah, and by the way, this is a period of like, I don't know, less than a year between when one round happened and the next round happened. So, you know, could've... could've... would’ve... should’ve.
Alright, so who are we giving this round to? Best investment? Me! Okay, for my sob story, at least I have this to lean back on.
Alright, let's go to worst investment. What was your worst investment of 2021?
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Sam Parr | I'll go first mine's easy zillow I bought | |
Shaan Puri | zillow you on that one | |
Sam Parr | Yeah, I only bought three individual stocks this year. One was Playboy, and Playboy kind of makes sense because it has only a $1,000,000,000 valuation and $200,000,000 in revenue. I thought the brand was easily worth that.
I'm actually thinking about buying Aston Martin stock. Aston Martin is only valued at like $1,000,000,000 or $2,000,000,000. It's like the cheapest car maker, but I think they're going to have a resurgence, so I'm thinking about doing that.
I bought Playboy thinking that was my logic, and I was wrong. But then Zillow was way wrong. Zillow was wrong because I bought at its most expensive. | |
Shaan Puri | But tell people why we bought this stock | |
Sam Parr | We bought it because we're in this chat group, and our friends Nikita and Austin Reef were like, "Zillow's the greatest thing ever." So, I bought like $25 or $50 worth of Zillow. I agreed with them; I thought, "Yeah, you know, you're right." Whenever I go to a fancy neighborhood, I just pull up Zillow and browse it all the time. It's kind of a category-defining company. I'm on board with Zillow. I thought, "Well, how much were they worth when we bought, like, $15 or $20?"
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Shaan Puri | I don't know. It's down 56%. So, I bought $100,000, and now my $100,000 is down to $44,000 left.
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Sam Parr | It made sense. I don't regret it. I'm on board with it. But the problem was that it went down just because we were wrong. Then it went down because they messed it up by buying all those houses, and it went down even more. So we were wrong like twice.
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Shaan Puri | And by the way, they lost **56%** of their value in a year where the housing market went like **bananas**. So, you know, it's not like there was something out of their control in their industry that was doing poorly, you know?
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Andrew Wilkinson | Didn’t Rich Barton come back or something? Was he the guy? He’s the original founder and a really great investor.
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Shaan Puri | and a great yeah great entrepreneur | |
Andrew Wilkinson | Yeah, and he came back and he tried to do the house buying stuff. I would still, I would honestly maybe double down on that because I think he'll probably pull a rabbit out. | |
Shaan Puri | of this | |
Sam Parr | I thought... I think it's a great company. It's awesome.
I think basically what happened was a bunch of bad stuff occurred, including one TikTok that went really viral, explaining how they're evil because they're like big corporations buying hundreds of homes. That totally messed them up. If anyone's the key, TikTok is the winner here.
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Andrew Wilkinson | The fact that they haven't disintermediated realtors, though... like the fact you can't—or maybe you can and I'm just not aware—but I just want to be able to list my house on Zillow and then have an open outcry auction one day.
Like, where you say, "On this day, I want to have an auction. Everyone's going to bid, and then we'll get the maximum price." And they do all the paperwork. That would be unusual. What's the company?
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Sam Parr | I invested in a company that does that. They were called Rumer; it's kind of a silly name. But they changed it to another silly name: it's called Dorsey. So yeah, I gotta copy.
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Andrew Wilkinson | this dorsey's not bad | |
Shaan Puri | I I like dorsey so do dorsey's fine | |
Sam Parr | It's like the word "door" and then "S-E-Y." It's a live home auction, and it started by the guy who started Hello Alfred. Kind of a cool company! I just sent it to you in the chat.
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Shaan Puri | yeah so zillow was your worst investment | |
Andrew Wilkinson | Hey, just before we jump in, I want to know about Playboy. So, what's the thesis there? They still have the magazine, obviously. It's kind of a... you know, there's a lot of legacies.
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Sam Parr | that they're | |
Shaan Puri | carrying from but what are they doing with it this can't be the magazine like where where's the money coming from | |
Sam Parr | Yeah, merchandise basically. They own the Playboy Mansion, which is worth nine figures, I believe. They recently did a SPAC in 2020, and they reported $200,000,000 in revenue in 2021, or that's what the forecast is going to be.
When I invested, I think their market cap was just a hair above $1,000,000,000. My logic right now is exactly $1,000,000,000. My logic was basically that I'm pretty sure that brand is worth more than that. If they just put their logo on stuff, I know young people don't really care about it as much, but I think that brand is pretty valuable.
I couldn't put a value on it, but I thought it was above what they were trading for. So, it was kind of a gut call, but it's down half.
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Andrew Wilkinson | Wasn't it a guy? The guy who bought that was the one who bought Twinkies or Hostess or something random like that.
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Sam Parr | yeah like | |
Andrew Wilkinson | yeah he was the guy who bought twinkies made a ton of money on it then he bought playboi | |
Sam Parr | I think | |
Andrew Wilkinson | it is a I mean it's a very iconic it's a really iconic brand | |
Sam Parr |
Yeah, and I know that they tried... I had a friend that almost bought this. The guys at *The Chive* almost sold to Playboy, and they told me about going to the mansion. They told me that Playboy was thinking about selling the mansion, and they told me how much it was worth. It's like a crazy high number, and I thought, "Well, fuck, just with this stuff..." Like, if this is worth more than the... [trails off]
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Shaan Puri | you're onlyfans why would you not just buy playboy | |
Sam Parr | I think it's really interesting | |
Andrew Wilkinson | you don't need it | |
Shaan Puri | That brand, I mean, what's it worth? You know, I don't know, 500 million people know your name and associate it. Like, that's gotta be worth it to a company that has a money printer. You know, if you are a money printer, what does it take to accelerate your brand like that? I don't know. That's... | |
Andrew Wilkinson | well let's be let's be real I mean tai lopez is gonna buy it turn it into some | |
Shaan Puri | sort of crypto thing tai lopez | |
Sam Parr | alright what are you what what's yours andrew | |
Andrew Wilkinson | Yeah, so mine... I can't say what it is. We didn't actually announce the business.
So the mistake we made is we bought an ember. What I mean by that is it's like this little tiny ember that could turn into a bonfire if you blow on it a lot. But you have to be very attentive, and we're not set up to be attentive. We're kind of management by neglect.
We buy these businesses, plug in CEOs, and then they go on to do great. The problem is, when you have this little tiny startup, this is a business—it was a real business with real revenue and profits—but it was very small. We liked what we saw, but the problem is we couldn't attract someone great to run it.
So the business, the ember, just kind of burnt out over time. We ended up spending like $1,000,000, so it was just a total money bonfire—pointless and unsatisfying.
So the lesson for us is just board a cruise ship, you know? Don't try and build your own boat.
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Sam Parr | that's good enough two good analogies ember and cruise ship | |
Shaan Puri | Alright, my worst investment... I'm going to give you the fast answer because I think we're going to run short on time.
Mine is holding COVID winners for too long. I had this amazing run-up on Zoom stock, Fastly, which is like an edge computing company, you know, like a cloud or what's it called, a CDN, and Agora, which does voice and video SDKs. They power Clubhouse and things like that.
I owned these stocks, and they ran up like crazy, you know, 2x, 3x, or whatever, in a very short amount of time. Then they've all come crashing back down to earth in the last six months or so. I lost money just by holding on to the COVID winners for too long.
For example, with Agora, I got in because I knew Clubhouse was growing, but then I was the one who kind of almost famously called that Clubhouse was going to fail and it's going to tank. Yet, I still held my Agora stock. I forgot to sell my Agora stock, and it's cut in half, you know?
So that sort of thing... I would say I lost a nice chunk of change holding my COVID winners for too long.
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Andrew Wilkinson | How awesome would it be if you could short private companies? Imagine if you saw Clubhouse and you could go and short it. Maybe there is a way to do it. If anyone has any ideas, I'd love to hear them. But I don't think stuff like that is quite obvious.
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Shaan Puri | Do you know about Polymarket? It's basically like a crypto betting platform. It's like a bookie, but you can bet on anything. You could bet on sports games, or whether Joe Biden will get COVID—whatever you want.
It's only a yes or no, so the market sets the line. Basically, if everybody thinks "yes," then proportionately, "no" will be rewarded. For example, if you bet "no" but two-thirds of people bet "yes," you're going to get a payout of more than 1 to 1 on your money because you're taking the underdog side of things.
This idea of prediction markets works really well in crypto, and there are a few of these platforms out there. I love betting on Polymarket.
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Andrew Wilkinson | Dude, we should do an annual betting episode where we all make predictions and bets. Then, we can put it on PolyMarket and we have to put our own money up. That'd be awesome!
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Sam Parr | Do you still stand by that? What's the update on Clubhouse? Are you going to be right?
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Shaan Puri | Yeah, well, it looks like it in the charts. You know, it looks like Mount Everest, right? It goes up and then it goes straight down.
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Sam Parr | There's not a world where, like, it's just maybe not growing a ton, but they still have like 1,000,000 people a day using it or something like that.
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Shaan Puri | Well, look, you never count out an entrepreneur. Those guys are really talented. Entrepreneurs can always pivot.
It's that, you know, the product as it is today did not become what people bet on it to become. Right? Andreessen put in a $4,000,000,000 price tag on it, basically betting that it's going to become like Twitter, Facebook, or Snap. And it's not happening. That hasn't happened.
The one good thing is that they have the same kind of hype cycle—or not hype, I shouldn't say that—but like trend fad cycle in different countries. So, like in India, it happened in America. It got super popular, and then usage faded. It wasn't super sticky.
Then the same thing will happen in India. It'll get super popular, and then it'll start to fade in popularity. So, the overall numbers aren't like totally zero, but the problem is if you're a leaky bucket, you're a leaky bucket. It's just a matter of time until all the water's gone.
And that's, I don't know, I think I'm right, but I don't honestly pay too much attention to it. People will often tweet at me charts of their downloads going down to be like, "You were right." So, that's all I know. It's basically people cherry-picking evidence. Andrew Chen's gonna...
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Sam Parr | come on the pod you know that right | |
Shaan Puri | oh is he yeah will he be able to talk to me or am I blocked from the pod too | |
Sam Parr | we'll see | |
Andrew Wilkinson | he'll he'll block you he'll mute you alright | |
Sam Parr | who's the winner on that one | |
Shaan Puri | I'm gonna go I like I think andrew had a good lesson in there | |
Sam Parr | alright I'll go with that | |
Shaan Puri | oh that's we're gonna go andrew there | |
Sam Parr | Alright, let me... I'm going to combine the next one. Can I do that? Yeah, okay.
So, I'm going to combine it with favorite digital tool, favorite physical tool, and best product under $100 and above $1,000. I'll go first.
So, my favorite digital tool is **Truebill**. Andrew, you should use Truebill! You said that you forget subscriptions. Truebill is awesome. Just today, I didn't realize that my wife and I both had an Amazon Prime membership.
Truebill... I paid like $50—oh no, or $10. It's really cheap, and it's a sick app that syncs your bank account and tells you the subscriptions that you have. It makes it easy to cancel them. Have you heard of that? Sweet! They just got acquired.
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Andrew Wilkinson | I don't I don't know if it works in canada but I | |
Sam Parr | I think it looks awesome for **$1,300,000,000** by Rocket Mortgage's Dan Gilbert. So, pretty awesome!
My favorite physical tool is kind of physical; it's a **$50** app called **Camo** that lets you use your iPhone for high-definition video calls. Pretty amazing!
Then, my favorite product that was under **$100** is a **$38** box called **Lockabox**. I keep it in my pantry, and my wife knows the code. She puts things in there that I don't want to have because I don't have self-control. So, she'll put sweets in there, and sometimes if I want to lock my phone for the weekend, she'll put it in there. That's awesome!
Above **$1,000**, I bought a fancy car, a **Mercedes AMG station wagon**, that I love.
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Shaan Puri | Dude, that was great! Okay, Andrew, so we're doing digital product, physical product, or kind of like a cheap or expensive thing you liked?
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Andrew Wilkinson | Okay, so Digital Product Consumer Lab.com is like $49 a year. It's basically Wirecutter but for food and supplements. They test everything from vitamin D to seaweed snacks to baby food. They buy every single brand, and it's pretty shocking.
For example, I just learned today that the seaweed snacks I've been giving my kids have a bunch of arsenic in them. It's just crazy stuff that could affect your life.
My favorite physical tool is this amazing thing that my wife gifted me randomly, something I never thought I would use. It's basically a game called "The Loser Game." You play it with friends, and you all draw a card. Each card has a really kind of messed up, deep question.
For example, one question is, "How have you blamed someone for an issue that was, if you're truly honest, largely your fault?" Another one is, "Name a surprising, basic, embarrassing gap in your knowledge."
You go around in a circle and answer these questions. I did this on a retreat with a couple of friends, and these are all guys I know really well. I left thinking, "Holy shit, there are so many cool stories and interesting facts that we don't know about one another." This game kind of elicits that, so that's been awesome.
Then, a physical thing that I bought this year is a house up at the lake, about 40 minutes out of town. It's been the best thing I could ever do. It's a great place to go and hang out with family and check out of work. Even though it's close, it feels like a whole other world away.
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Sam Parr | that's great and I've seen the house it's awesome | |
Shaan Puri | But I got a quick story about that thing you just said. My first business, I started with my two best friends from college. This was the sushi business.
We met the chef, and he goes, "Alright, I love your guys' vibe. I can tell you really like each other. How long have you known each other? Did you just meet or have you known each other for a while?"
We replied, "No, we've known each other for years. We're thick as thieves."
He then asked, "So, you know each other pretty well?" We said, "Yeah, why?"
He continued, "Sean, what's the hardest thing Trevor's ever been through?" I was like, "I have no idea." He said, "Just name something, maybe." I honestly had no clue.
All three of us had no idea what the hardest thing our best friend had been through. He then said, "Yeah, I kind of noticed this. You all talk, but you don't have conversations."
I was like, "Oh shit, mic drop!" He said, "You don't need to do this now, but try it. Go a little deeper. Just ask yourself these questions."
That night, we asked each other those questions, and by the end, we were all like, "Dude, I didn't know that about you! I feel like I know you way better now."
So, that was a great reminder that sometimes these questions can take you further with your friends.
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Andrew Wilkinson | Totally, it's a superpower. One of the questions I ask people when I have lunch, like during small talk, you know, the first time I have lunch with someone, is, "Are you happy? Are you happy with where your life is right now?"
It's weird; they will just go down a rabbit trail and tell you all sorts of crazy stuff you wouldn't normally tell somebody.
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Shaan Puri | oh you're happy just mind fucking people throughout victoria alright so I'll it | |
Andrew Wilkinson | well it just builds builds connection right | |
Shaan Puri | I'll do mine.
Okay, so my favorite digital thing is this app called **Othership**. It's a breathwork app that I use every morning. I love it! It wakes me up and makes me feel good. It slows me down and speeds me up at the same time. It slows me down from just rushing into my day and feeling behind. Then it speeds me up because when I come out of it, I feel electric. I feel like I'm on fire and I could do whatever I want now. So, **Othership** is the name of that app. I love that app!
Now, for my favorite physical tool... this is going to sound stupid. Alright, so I grew out my hair. I did it just to have a change, to do something different. But I don't know anything about how to take care of hair. I'm a really messy, disorganized person who doesn't look in the mirror until 7 PM that night. I'm like, "Oh, I didn't even look at myself today." That doesn't really work when you have long, high-maintenance hair.
So, I went to a stylist and I said, "Can I get a little trim?" She asked, "What do you want?" and I was like, "I have no idea." What I really wanted was for her to cut the haircut half an hour short and just tell me what I should be doing with my hair. She was confused and asked, "What do you mean?" I explained, "So, I get in the shower, and if I want to do shampoo, here's how I do it. You tell me if that's correct." I went through these ultra basics with her, and she was laughing.
Through that conversation, she said, "Oh, no, no, no. When you shampoo, don't do it on the roots because you're going to end up stripping away all your natural oils. Just do your conditioner and shampoo from the middle to the end." She also pointed out, "Oh, your hair is really frizzy, and you probably don't know why. Do you sleep on a cotton pillowcase?" I said, "Yeah, of course." She replied, "You need to switch that for silk because imagine you're spending 8 hours a night rubbing your hair into this thing."
So, she gave me these three little tips: a silk pillowcase, this curling cream, and she said, "Just use this because your hair won't look like crap."
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Sam Parr | Black or white? White, dude. We have silk things in our house all over the place.
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Shaan Puri | well yes because if you have I got her the black | |
Sam Parr | girl thing | |
Shaan Puri | Yeah, yeah, no, it is. There's like this whole thing, the **Curly Girl Method** and stuff like that.
So, anyway, I learned so much about hair in like half an hour. It was amazing! I felt so relieved. I was like, "This is like this class of life school I just missed." I was too embarrassed or too busy to think about it, but taking the time to think about it was awesome.
And so, you know, the little silk pillow and a couple of other things were great little wins for me.
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Sam Parr | When you go to restaurants, what I do all the time is I just say, "What do you want?" and I'll say, "I just want meat and vegetables. Give me whatever is popular or whatever is best."
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Shaan Puri | do you | |
Sam Parr | ever do | |
Shaan Puri | That no, but I... well, I'll often ask, "What's best?" or I'll say, "The best question is, you know, what do you eat after work? What's the best thing that you like to eat after work?" | |
Sam Parr | Dude, it makes them so uncomfortable though. I ask that all the time. It makes them very uncomfortable and they freak out just like you do when...
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Shaan Puri | I get a haircut I'm | |
Sam Parr | They're like, "What do you want?" I'm like, "Just make me look sexy, you know? Just like, make me look hot." Just like, "Choice." Yeah, whatever. Chef's choice is a hella underrated way to live life. But it makes them so uncomfortable.
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Shaan Puri | No, you might be putting too much pressure on them. I tell them, "Look, this is where I am. It can't get worse than this. Don't worry, I trust you."
I tell every haircut, "Don't worry about what you do. My hair grows fast." I take a lot of pressure off them.
Same thing with the food, you know? Tell me what you eat after work. By the way, I'm not picky, and I'm already in a good mood, so I'm going to love whatever you give me. And then, you know, take that...
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Sam Parr | That's a good one. I'm going to say that. Alright, and then your last... you're over 100 and under 100.
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Shaan Puri | The... what's... let's see... that over 100. Oh, I hired a chef. So, I don't know why more people don't do this. Like...
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Ben Wilson | dude that's such a conceited thing to say | |
Shaan Puri | Yeah, no, no. Yeah, cancel me and be like, "Yeah, because I can't afford it."
No, what I mean is, if you can buy a nice car or, you know, like I would never buy a nice car before a chef. Like, my order of operations would be, "Bitch, you drive a BMW."
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Andrew Wilkinson | No, no, no, no. I don't even think that's the right comparison. I think a lot of people who are middle class or upper middle class have a cleaner or chef. It's just slightly more expensive than that. It's not crazy expensive. | |
Shaan Puri | To have somebody who preps meals... I don't do it every day, so you could do it three days a week or whatever it is. It's the biggest life quality change because you get your time back, you eat healthier, and it's actually tasty.
You probably aren't a great cook, or at least I'm not. They prep little things for my dog or my baby, who's a picky eater, and it just saves so much time, energy, and mental space to do this.
For me, I'm like, I would cut ten other things before this. So, if you have some money, right? You can't do this if you have no money, but if you have some money to play with, don't angel invest—hire a chef.
Don't buy a nice car; if you're buying a Tesla, get a chef instead. Those are the kind of trade-offs you can make. | |
Sam Parr | and above below a 1000 | |
Shaan Puri | oh jammies I think I've talked about this before oh my god | |
Andrew Wilkinson | I love these | |
Shaan Puri | things you don't like it you don't like jammies | |
Sam Parr | I they're just boxers with pockets | |
Shaan Puri | very soft boxers with pockets and no hole do you wear them do you wear | |
Andrew Wilkinson | them though day to day or only when you're at home | |
Shaan Puri | well I'm at home every day what do you mean well I don't mean like you | |
Andrew Wilkinson | take if there's no if there's no hole and you put them on | |
Shaan Puri | as a jeans | |
Sam Parr | it's just a size | |
Shaan Puri | I don't know I wore them as a | |
Andrew Wilkinson | just a shitty version | |
Shaan Puri | Of a boxer's a replacement for sure. I like to just walk around in my boxers all day; that's where I'm most comfortable.
So, this is the socially acceptable, more comfortable option. They're a little longer, so you're not showing too much thigh. There's no hole, and they have pockets, so you can carry your phone around.
It's like the best way to just wear your boxers at home.
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Andrew Wilkinson | saying like you're saying like your mother-in-law your mother-in-law is wearing | |
Shaan Puri | my jacket wear boxers around | |
Andrew Wilkinson | the house because if you just wear shorts they're just as comfortable and you'd look | |
Sam Parr | for them and sean seffettes he's been talking about these things for like 3 years now | |
Andrew Wilkinson | I've worn them; they're very, very comfortable. I have a pair, and I like them. However, I wouldn't wear them if there are people in my house.
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Sam Parr | wear the lemon shorts instead that have like the underwear and the as the lining | |
Andrew Wilkinson | yeah they're so comfortable we're | |
Shaan Puri | not all trillionaires so we can't all get lululemon we can get champies right | |
Sam Parr | Alright, can I batch the next one again? Yeah. Alright, so check this out. So what I'm... | |
Shaan Puri | giving that round to sam | |
Sam Parr | Alright, I'll take that.
**What's one thing you learned about yourself this year?**
And what's the best relationship hack? I'll go first because mine are going to be really fast.
**Best relationship hack:** This year, I do weekly meetings with my wife using this Best Self Journal. It's just a prompt—an hour-long prompt of questions—and you get to know each other better. It's exactly what you've talked about with your buddy. It's been awesome! That's the best hack I've had.
**And the one thing I learned this year:** I'll say two things...
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Andrew Wilkinson | 1 well | |
Sam Parr | I don't | |
Shaan Puri | Are you both equally into the relationship, or is one of you more into it than the other? | |
Sam Parr | we're both equally into it | |
Shaan Puri | okay I think that's and | |
Sam Parr | I've always been a fan of therapy. I've gone to therapy regardless of whether I'm healthy or unhealthy. It's just like going to the gym.
So, I thought we should do couples counseling, even though everything's great. However, we didn't really jive with anyone. I thought this one is actually better.
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Shaan Puri | it works yeah | |
Sam Parr | and it's like $25 for one time and then | |
Andrew Wilkinson | So, Sean, I mean, I totally relate to what you said. She's not into it. I tried to do this with my wife, to have a weekly board meeting, like, "Hey, let's talk about our relationship." My wife's not dealing with anything.
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Sam Parr | It's not run like a business meeting exactly, but it just has... you know, like the 5 languages of love. That's like one conversation. You'll have that one week, and the next conversation will be, "Tell me about your childhood."
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Andrew Wilkinson | Right, I think someone needs to build an operating system, kind of like how you would have board meetings and all this stuff for marriage and family. EOS, right? Like, what does our family stand for? That's... yeah, exactly, exactly. | |
Shaan Puri | that's a great idea yeah | |
Sam Parr | And then one thing I learned about myself is that I actually don't like owning fancy stuff. It kind of stresses me out.
I bought a fancy watch and I was like, "Oh my God, this is horrible! It's freaking me out."
What I learned this year is that I had a number for my net worth in my head. I thought, "If I hit this number, I'm never going to worry again and I'm not going to chase money."
I hit that number, but I still worry and I still chase. It's never enough.
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Andrew Wilkinson | yeah and now now it's it's always 2 x | |
Sam Parr | You know, there’s a study that The New Yorker did where they asked a bunch of wealthy people. It doesn’t matter if the person had $1,000,000, $100,000, or $50,000,000; they always said they’d be more comfortable if they had 2x that amount.
Yep. Alright, you wanna go, Sean?
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Shaan Puri | Yeah, okay, so the best relationship hack... I literally just wrote this down as soon as I read it. I go, "Shut the fuck up."
I learned this year how to really just **shut the fuck up** in a relationship. Meaning, not everything needs to be talked about. Not everything needs to be said. Not every pot needs to be stirred. Not every issue needs to be discussed. Not every worry needs to be a thing.
Just **shut up** and enjoy it. Just **shut up** and listen more. Just **shut up** and don't complain. Don't talk about constantly improving and changing it. Just **shut up** a little bit.
So that was my relationship hack. There are many times where you've probably noticed this, because you know me pretty well, Sam. I'm kind of a pot stirrer, and I like to... I don't feel alive until somebody's laughing or angry or whatever in a conversation. I'm like, "Yeah, now we're doing it!" But that really is not how everybody is.
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Sam Parr | But your intentions are mostly always good. If you just want to call shit, it's just because you feel like laughing.
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Shaan Puri | yeah so I'm trying to amuse myself | |
Andrew Wilkinson | The difference is, were your parents debaters? That was kind of how your family functioned. Because in my household, my dad's a pot stirrer. He would say some outlandish thing, we would start yelling, and that was almost his love language. My problem is, I've applied that into all my relationships, and most people find that horrible. | |
Shaan Puri | Yeah, you just said it perfectly. So that was the lesson I learned this year. My relationship hack was: what if I didn't try that? What if I did something different?
The thing I learned about myself... I'm going to share one that's not so good. You know, there are a lot of lessons that are like, "Oh yeah, I learned this and now I'm better for it." This is one that I just learned was kind of a **shitty** thing about me.
I've had several friends that I considered to be close friends, or they worked for me, or whatever. I've kind of mentored them in some way. Then they go on to do really great things, but they called everybody except for me to share the wins they were having or to let me on board to invest in it. I wasn't in the loop beyond once our relationship changed. Once the transaction was done, like once we stopped working together, in my head I'm like, "Oh yeah, we're super tight." In their head, they had a different opinion.
I had lunch with a buddy, and he was telling me about this crazy journey he's been on. I asked him something kind of weird: "I've noticed this happening a bunch of times. You had this crazy journey, and I feel like I thought we were super close, and we're just now talking about it. I wasn't in the loop. You didn't let me know. You didn't share these awesome things that were happening or the crazy bad things. You took other investors. I feel like I could have been your first check into your thing. Is there something I do that makes you feel that way?" And he's like, "Yeah." | |
Sam Parr | can I get can I guess what he said | |
Shaan Puri | yeah go ahead | |
Sam Parr | I I just thought that you were too busy | |
Shaan Puri | Yeah, but like a less generous version of that is you blew me off, basically. It's like, I messaged you a bunch of times and you didn't really respond in a big way. So I just figured, okay, he said it perfectly. He goes, "I felt like I figured out what I am to you."
I thought we were close. You thought we were... you're saying you thought we were close, but you made me feel like we're not that close. Once our engagement was over, it seemed like you put me in some place that you didn't want to engage as much as I wanted to.
I was like, "What are you talking about? Not me, good old Sean, no way!" This is whatever. And then sure enough, I scrolled back in our DMs and it's like him saying something, him saying something, him saying something, me saying one line, him saying something, and me never responding, never getting back to it. | |
Sam Parr | how do you combat combat that because like you've gotten very popular | |
Shaan Puri | but it's not that it's like | |
Andrew Wilkinson | Well, this is the problem. So much of becoming friends with someone depends on where you're at in your life, how much time you have for the other person, and whether you're in sync or not.
Some of my best friends, we were both single, drinking, and partying. We were super, super close. Then, you have kids, and life changes. You kind of drift apart.
The same thing can happen with texting. If they're texting you all the time and they want you to engage, but you send a one-liner back, they immediately take offense. They don't realize that you've got 300 other people texting you, and you just want to be friends with everybody.
It's funny you mention this because I wrote down that my worst habit of the year is writing blunt one-line responses to DMs and text messages. I'm busy, right? I'm just trying to rip through them all, and I'm tired.
But it's way better to not respond at all. At least then you're mysterious, and people might think, "Oh, maybe you didn't see it." The one-liner really pisses people off. | |
Shaan Puri | so much it's not that much better | |
Andrew Wilkinson | it's a little it's a little better it's shockingly better | |
Shaan Puri | if it | |
Sam Parr | makes you feel better sean I perceive you as a person who's in the loop of everything though | |
Shaan Puri | Yeah, I don't know. I basically realized my self-perception of where these relationships are at and how good of a friend I was being. I realized, like, "Oh no, I actually am kind of a shitty friend."
I can make people feel bad without really realizing it. And also, that costs me. I don't get to share in the wins and know the stories. I miss out on being friends and getting these opportunities that, you know, would otherwise have come from this.
So, once I have it like five times, I'm like, "Okay, the only problem is me. I'm the common denominator here."
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Andrew Wilkinson | One of the habits that I've realized is that there are two things.
One is using a smiley when you say something; it takes the edge off. Even if it's a one-liner, it takes the edge off.
The other thing is a friend of mine does this. He's very, very busy, super spread thin, with a big personality and lots of friends. He will just, every once in a while, text me and say, "Hey man, I was just thinking of you." Or, you know, let's say it's New Year's, he'll say, "Hey, thanks for your friendship this year. Here's something I really appreciated or took from you."
It comes across as very authentic. I've looked at that and thought, "Okay, I need to really learn how to do that." Because I'm like you; exactly as you're saying this, I'm just nodding along.
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Shaan Puri | I think I come | |
Andrew Wilkinson | I come across as distant and cold, and too busy. I don't want to be that way; I just want to make everyone happy. It's so sad.
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Shaan Puri | You know, [Bracket's] first name, I was really thinking about you. Yeah, that's what's going to come out from us this year.
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Andrew Wilkinson | yeah someone do listen out | |
Sam Parr | andrew relationships and learnings | |
Andrew Wilkinson | Yeah, okay. So, my biggest relationship hack? Honestly, my wife’s love language is **acts of service**.
It's really interesting. Often, she'll start picking at me about something else I'm doing that pisses her off, and we'll have a fight about it. Ultimately, it comes down to the fact that I left towels on the floor or I left the kitchen dirty.
So now, I'm just trying to, whenever I have that moment where I see the kitchen's dirty, I'm unloading the dishwasher and trying to enjoy it.
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Shaan Puri | get it | |
Andrew Wilkinson | I'm sorry, but it seems there was an error in my response. Here is the cleaned transcription:
I'm not a slob, but I always say to her, "What's the point of making money if you use your time doing things you don't want to do?"
Whereas my wife is much more like, "I don't want our kids to grow up without seeing us work and doing stuff."
So, we don't really have any help around the house. We have a nanny, but we also have a cleaner who does all the things we don't want to do. | |
Shaan Puri | besides the stuff that's a cleaner we have it's all us no | |
Andrew Wilkinson | We don't have any of that. We're not fancy like you.
Then there's the School of Life, which makes that card game I mentioned before. I love that so much that I bought this one called the Connect card game. It's for couples, and my wife and I have been doing it.
It's basically five stacks, and each stack is like, you know, one is for sex, one is for general relationship topics, one is personal, and so on. You roll a dice and go through these questions.
Again, it's just this great way to penetrate through... you might be in a bad spot, but when you answer these questions, it kind of unlocks everything and builds connection between the two of you.
That's been really, really good for us because my wife doesn't like doing the meetings or couples counseling a lot of the time, but this has been a great thing for us.
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Sam Parr | that's baller yeah ours are me and you are we have the same thing | |
Andrew Wilkinson | Dude, I totally... I really think that's cool you said that about people thinking you're a dick or checked out. I have that exact thing, and you said it really nicely.
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Shaan Puri | yes kind of it's hard | |
Andrew Wilkinson | It's hard. It's hard. You know, I've even experienced that with you, and I've probably done it to you as well.
But it's like, you and I, we've texted and we've had these long exchanges. Then there are other times where you text me and I'm like, "one line," yeah? Or vice versa. It's crazy.
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Shaan Puri | Things where, like, I would... I maybe do take offense. I don't know. But in my head, it's like I have so much faith in the relationship that I'm like, "It's not going to affect my score," you know, in a way.
Also, I hate the kind of excuse of "I'm busy." Because basically, to me, when someone says "I'm busy," it means "I'm poor." If I think wealth is freedom of time and the ability to spend it how you want, then saying "I don't have time" means I'm poor.
So, I'm like, I don't want to accept that as reality. You know, I'm trying to figure it out.
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Andrew Wilkinson | Well, it's also... there are two things I've noticed. When I don't work with somebody, I text them differently than when we do work together.
When we work together, it's like there's a total filter. I'm not going to be nice; I'm just going to be super blunt, and we're just going to grind it out. That's just business. I'm not being an asshole; I'm just being very direct.
But I think that can come across the wrong way. I think people sense a shift. They start working with me, and I suddenly become this super blunt person, and they're like...
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Shaan Puri | What happened? Alright, so I was back. Okay, so I got the categories here.
Let's keep rolling. We have, I think, three big buckets left. Alright, so we're going to do these together.
The first one is "Book of the Year." And then the second one to do is, you know, a podcast, newsletter, or a person you started following or subscribing to.
So, a book and something you started subscribing to that you really loved. Let's do Andrew first.
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Andrew Wilkinson | Okay, so I read this really great book that, Sam, I think you'd love. It's called *Clash of the Titans*. It's from the late nineties and it features two parallel stories. One is about Ted Turner and the other is about Rupert Murdoch, right from the beginning.
The stories are kind of interwoven, and at various times, they clash and try to buy the same businesses and stuff. But it's about two different wacko billionaires. These guys are both insane in their own ways. You know, Murdoch is like quiet, calculating, 100% focused on profit, but very slick and smooth. Ted Turner's like insane, unpredictable, emotional, and all about building a brand name and making an impact, but it's really about him.
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Sam Parr | and his ego stars only 5 reviews on amazon | |
Andrew Wilkinson | It’s totally weird that I had to buy it in print, although I found it on Audible. But anyway, it was a really great read. I didn’t know that much about Rupert Murdoch before this, and I gotta say, he’s obviously evil but a really amazing billionaire business person.
He’s been going since 1957, and somehow, only now, he’s worth $8 billion. You see these other people who are worth like $30 billion and have only been around for like 5 years. So, it’s pretty wild. But anyway, great, great book.
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Shaan Puri | I met rupert murdoch once have you met him andrew | |
Andrew Wilkinson | yeah you told this story you went to some symposium or something I was | |
Shaan Puri | trying to say to get confused | |
Andrew Wilkinson | he was sharp right | |
Shaan Puri | Amazing! Basically, what he does is own all these properties. They own, like, whatever—The Wall Street Journal, Fox, and a whole bunch of other things. I don't know exactly what they own, but it's a bunch of huge media publications, and they're all spread around the world.
He gets everybody together once a year and rents out the top floor or top two floors of the Wynn in Vegas. He puts all of the CEOs and execs of basically all of his different properties up there. It was during CES, but they didn't attend CES. They were not down at the conference floor shaking hands or anything like that. They were in his room, which is like the presidential suite or whatever.
They would start at 8 AM and go from 8 AM to like 6 PM or something like that. It would be back-to-back talks, 30-minute talks. They would just bring in somebody from some other field to give a talk, and they would grill them with questions. They would be like, "Thank you so much for coming. Next!" And it would be like, you know, the number two guy at Facebook would go...
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Sam Parr | yeah you went with like the skim | |
Shaan Puri | The skim was then they have like 3 or 4 startups as well because it's like before us. You know, it's like the CEO of Slack, Stewart Butterfield, went and gave his talk.
By the way, the talk is like, you know, there are 30 people in the room or something like that. So it's not like a presentation; it's just someone kind of spitballing about what they do and their view of the world. Then they get asked a bunch of questions, and this goes on for like 8 or 9 hours straight.
If you look around the room—because I got there early, I just stayed—we were talking at the end, but I just sat in on the whole thing. It was amazing. I looked around the room and saw people, you know, oh, there's the president of Fox, and his attention is drifting. This person owns the New York Post, and they're on their phone.
Rupert Murdoch is like the star pupil. He's in the first row, sitting there, not looking at his phone. He's attentive the whole time, taking notes, asking the best questions, and he had the most energy. This guy went 8 hours straight. He was like 87 years old at the time; he's 90 now, I think.
He's the oldest guy, no bathroom breaks. This guy, I don't know what he's got. Have you seen *Succession*? I've seen season 1, and it's like, you know, loosely based.
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Sam Parr | off him | |
Andrew Wilkinson | right it's amazing | |
Sam Parr | Kinda, yeah. And they, like, this old guy in *Succession*, he grinds, man. They're working like 24 hours a day.
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Shaan Puri | that's exactly right | |
Sam Parr | Always serious shit and very important is just like that. When I hear that, I'm like, "This seems miserable." How are they on all the time? They have so much energy, right?
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Andrew Wilkinson | Well, not only that, but Rupert Murdoch has brought all of his kids into the business. The reason "Succession" is based on him is that his kids have, one by one, failed to become the heir apparent. They have fought each other, and they all hate each other. They've leaked stuff to the press, and it's really horrible.
I think Rupert Murdoch is a great way to invert, you know, what do we not want? I don't want to become Rupert Murdoch because it doesn't seem like fun to me. Although maybe his personality works for him.
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Shaan Puri | In our home space, I really respect him. Okay, so then your thing, you subscribe to Andrew's podcast, newsletter, whatever.
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Andrew Wilkinson | So yeah, there's not really... I kind of got off Twitter, although I've been getting back into it a little bit. I haven't subscribed to any newsletters at all this year. I just... I overdosed last year.
The person I really have been enjoying their tweets is your friend Nikita Bayer. He had a really great tweet recently where he talks about how all these people do acquihires to Facebook. Facebook basically just buys companies to shut them down, right? They find promising social networks that might compete with them, and they go buy them for tens of millions of dollars before they turn into anything.
They bought his company, and it's kind of like a prison for entrepreneurs. They make you sit around for 3 to 5 years and vest your stock, and a lot of people hate it. He had this great tweet where he says, "I'm leaving Facebook after 3 years. Here's a thread of everything I learned." Points down, and there's just nothing there. I thought that was awesome.
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Shaan Puri | You know, he was sitting on that one for four years. As he vested out, he's like, "Here's how I'm gonna go out."
Okay, great. Sam, what you got? Book, podcast, newsletter, whatever.
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Sam Parr | I'm gonna go with **Endurance**. It's a story about a shipwreck.
Then I'll also go with **Empire of the Summer Moon**. It's about the Comanche Indians and the Texas Rangers, and how they fought. They're all just... well, they're just savages.
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Andrew Wilkinson | dude endurance is amazing | |
Shaan Puri | and by | |
Sam Parr | The way I said "savages," I mean the Native Americans and also the Texas Rangers. They all treat each other horribly.
Endurance is amazing; it makes me feel like my life is meaningless and soft.
Then, things that I followed this year:
1. **Laird Hamilton** - I've learned all about him this year. That guy has the ideal life, in my opinion. He's a surfer and businessman; pretty amazing, cool dude.
2. **How to Take Over the World** - Ben Wilson's podcast is one of the best things I've subscribed to, and I'm going to suck up even further.
3. **The 5 Bullet Friday** - The 5 tweets for Baby, that's freaking awesome. I like that too.
So those are the things I started following this year.
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Shaan Puri | Alright, love it! Okay, so my book... I just started reading this book, so this is going to sound a little silly because I'm only 10 pages in.
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Sam Parr | do you read | |
Shaan Puri | Thank you. Do you read?
I dabble. I basically have like, you know, I'll buy 50 books in a year and I'll read about 10 to 30% of them. So it's like I read one book at the end of the year.
This one, I've read 10 pages so far, and in the first 10 pages, this book has more wisdom than anything I've ever read. I'm not saying I read a bunch of wisdom, so that's the caveat.
But it's this book called *Think on These Things*. It's by this philosopher named J. Krishnamurti. I don't know where I think I evolved, maybe mentioned this guy's name as Krishnamurti, and I went and bought this book.
I sat on my couch for like, you know, a year and didn't look at it. Then I just picked it up one day, and 10 pages in, I literally have reread the first 10 pages three times. I just don't even want to go on. I'm like, "Oh, these two principles in the first 10 pages are so good that if I internalize these, my life changes." It's just amazing.
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Sam Parr | I just I'm looking at it now | |
Andrew Wilkinson | sounds awesome I just bought | |
Shaan Puri | it yeah I mean I sold it pretty hard | |
Sam Parr | yeah alright | |
Shaan Puri | So that's the first book.
Second, this is the thing I subscribe to. This is kind of, again, a little bit of an expected one, but I listened to the "All In" podcast. I don't know if you guys listen. Sam, I don't think you like it, right? Or you don't listen?
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Sam Parr | I don't listen to any business podcasts | |
Shaan Puri | andrew do you listen I feel like this might be up your alley | |
Andrew Wilkinson | Yeah, I find I love all in, but I found it was like, it's too stressful. The time I listen to podcasts is in the evening, and the last thing I want to do is get pumped up on deals and what's going on in tech. So I... | |
Shaan Puri | I stopped listening to it, and specifically, I would actually say David Friedberg on the podcast. I find the rest of them to be very smart and very entertaining, but very obnoxious to me personally. | |
Sam Parr | yeah | |
Shaan Puri | I'm sure these people are obviously successful. They're probably fun to hang out with and things like that. | |
Sam Parr | well david's like the real nerd | |
Shaan Puri | But he's the real nerd, and he's the only one I feel like is never presenting a face. He's never virtue signaling or building their brand by saying certain things.
I think Chamath is amazing, but I also think he virtue signals a bunch. You know, I think that Jason kind of says he's a man of the people, but I think he kind of likes being high class and enjoys hanging out with high-class people and doing high-class things.
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Andrew Wilkinson | That's what makes it good. They're all like best friends, but they're horrible to each other. Exactly. | |
Shaan Puri | he's a good thing to | |
Andrew Wilkinson | Each other, and they're all very complicated personalities. Every single one of them, and I think that's what makes it interesting.
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Shaan Puri | A good thing about the TV show is that the characters have flaws. David Sachs is super smart but also very political to a different extent. He's always just looking for some story that supports his point of view. Usually, that point of view is that everybody else is biased, but he is clearly just constantly searching for information about how other people are biased.
Anyways, I love the show and enjoy the characters a lot. However, I think David Freeberg is actually the one who has been a kind of star discovery for me this year. He is super smart and provides great information about science and other topics. He has a very balanced and fair point of view while still saying interesting things. I feel like he's not trying to build his personal brand and popularity through the show, unlike many others who create content.
One of the reasons I criticize those other guys for doing that sometimes is that I do it too. You spot it because you got it. Sometimes, I will say something that I know makes me look good or presents myself in a certain way. So, I see it when other people do it too.
All in all, maybe the new thing I’ve enjoyed is this new show that I’ve subscribed to.
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Sam Parr | that's great alright do we wonder what was the last one was okay I got I | |
Shaan Puri |
Got two more. So, this is a quick one:
1. **MFM Guest of the Year**: Who was the best guest that came on the pod?
2. **Your Person of the Year**: Somebody you really enjoyed getting to know, hanging out with, or working with this year.
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Sam Parr | industry and company | |
Shaan Puri | that's gonna be the last one | |
Sam Parr |
Alright, I'll go first. **Rob Dyrdek** and **Ariel Helwani** for guest of the year. Rob Dyrdek blew my mind. Ariel... he was the biggest fan. I'm the biggest fan. That was like, I'm the biggest fan of his of everyone we did.
And then what was the second question?
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Shaan Puri | someone person of the year just your person of the year sam's person of the year | |
Sam Parr | who who | |
Shaan Puri | did you | |
Sam Parr | Dude, I'm gonna suck up again. I gotta say, Ben and Sean, I've been... I'm like, so we just crossed **2,000,000 listens** per 30 days. I think we hit **2.1 million** or something like that. I'm very, very... this is the thing I'm most proud of that we've done.
So, I would say, and with Ben, I think we found the perfect third man.
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Shaan Puri | so shout out to the | |
Andrew Wilkinson | were you tearing up just a little bit there it seemed like you | |
Shaan Puri | I've been | |
Sam Parr | Very kind to Sean and all the people involved in this podcast. They're like, "Why are you being so nice?" I'm just really proud of what we've done. It's something I've been very proud of.
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Shaan Puri | Dude, when we went to Miami for the live show, the other Ben—the Ben that works for me, my partner—he came with me. He was like, "Oh, I'm finally getting to meet Sam! I've heard him on the pod for hours and hours, but I've never met him." I was like, "Yeah, he's great."
I also said, "But hey, if Sam gets impatient with you or anything like that, don't take it personally. It's just kind of his style. You know, when we're doing a live show, he's going to want it to go well. It might be high pressure, and I've seen him kind of go off on people sometimes if, you know, whatever."
So we get there, and Sam was Zen Sam. He was so kind, so thoughtful, so nice, and so happy. Ben was like, "What the fuck were you talking about, dude?" I was like, "I don't know where this came from—this 100% happy Sam—but this is amazing!"
I feel like, I don't know if it's the acquisition or whatever the working out is, but dude, you've been so much happier this year. It's amazing.
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Sam Parr | It's part acquisition, and we're getting the results. We're finally becoming as popular as I thought we should.
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Andrew Wilkinson | You're not threatened anymore, right? Like before, if the hustle failed or anything went bad, that directly hurt you. And you're... that's.
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Sam Parr | your entire | |
Andrew Wilkinson | next egg right so you're not you're like a dog you're like a dog you have ample food | |
Sam Parr | Now, you don't need to be anywhere. It's just like... it's been 2 years. It hasn't been that long since we've been doing this—maybe two and a half years, I forget.
And it's finally coming to fruition. It's the hardest thing. Growing the hustle wasn't that hard, but growing this has been very hard.
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Andrew Wilkinson | Dude, I just want to say I'm so happy for you! I thought you were going to sell to HubSpot and be out of there in like 3 months, feeling bitter and upset that you sold your baby.
It's so cool to see the podcast going so well, the hustle going so well, and Trends going so well. All the people are still there, and you actually like the guy you sold to.
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Shaan Puri | that's pretty impressive | |
Sam Parr | I mean, I think I undersold, so I definitely have some regrets. But I don't regret it at all, and I'm happy. I intend to do this podcast for a very long time. | |
Shaan Puri | investing is a hell of a drug | |
Andrew Wilkinson | Wait, did I go off script? Do you want the thing you paid me to say earlier? Alright, here's what I have.
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Shaan Puri | To say about Durban... Alright, Andrew, guest of the year, and your favorite person. You got to hang out and interact with.
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Andrew Wilkinson |
So, my favorite guest was Steph Smith. She is always amazing. Like I tweeted this out, but I think it's like she just drops $1,000 bills on the ground for amazing entrepreneurs to pick up. There's just so many great ideas, and I think for you guys, the best format is a **shitload** of quick hits and ideas. I think she always delivers on that.
I don't really always love it when you guys just interview someone about what they're doing. The other one I loved was Huberman, for that exact same reason. Just like...
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Sam Parr | You know, I got him on your thread, right? You tweeted that you love him, and I also like him. I just said, "Hey Andrew, DM me. Come on the pod." It was on your thread, yeah.
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Andrew Wilkinson |
No way! Oh, that's amazing. Yeah, he's... he's amazing. He's been my... Actually, I should have said before, he's probably my favorite podcast subscription. I just love his stuff. It's so in-depth.
And then, what was the other question?
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Shaan Puri | person in your life your favorite person of the year non family | |
Andrew Wilkinson | So, I would say, well, I may have talked about him before, but this guy, Kimia, who we started a business with last year, we started this negotiation business called **Fire** with him.
I just freaking... so I'll just share basically what happened. I met this guy, a super scrappy entrepreneur. He told me he wanted to start something and mentioned that he loved negotiating randomly in some conversation.
So, I started testing him. I'd be like, "Hey, I'm buying a nice car. Can you negotiate it for me?" Or, "Hey, we're buying a bunch of desks for the office." The guy would just save me like **40%** on everything and hustle. He's awesome!
So, I was like, "Okay, dude, this should be a business: negotiation as a service. You need, you know, a lease negotiation SaaS software or whatever."
So, we started this business called **Bayer**. We went **50/50** on it. I promoted it and talked about it, giving the rails and accounting and stuff. We literally started it for like **$50,000** or **$100,000**, and we sold it to **Ramp** about maybe **6 months** ago now for single-digit millions.
So, we went from like **$50,000** to, you know, single-digit millions in a year. Amazing exit for him! I would have loved to keep owning the business, but this is what he wanted to do. It was just so cool watching somebody actually take the baton and then run the marathon model.
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Sam Parr | how much do you think tyler could have been more | |
Andrew Wilkinson | And the guy's just freaking awesome. You know, I don't know. I mean, we were already profitable. I think we could have made a couple of hundred thousand dollars in profit in the first year. I told him, "Look, I think we should hold this." But for him, you know, it was the first time he was ever going to have...
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Shaan Puri | a good | |
Andrew Wilkinson | Man, like that, and you can't undervalue... he's working a ramp. So, you just can't undervalue, you know, getting a couple million. | |
Shaan Puri | bucks a | |
Andrew Wilkinson | new jeans right I think it's still | |
Sam Parr | I think that's a great I think that's a | |
Andrew Wilkinson | I think they've rolled | |
Shaan Puri | it in | |
Sam Parr | someone should just copy that | |
Andrew Wilkinson | Yeah, it says right here. They've integrated it into RampBuyer.com or no, Buyer.com.
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Sam Parr | someone should just do that again I thought that that one had legs | |
Andrew Wilkinson | If anyone's listening and wants to restart that business with me, because I don't think Ramp would care. We could even say, "We won't do SaaS" or something. I just want someone to negotiate a car or a lease, or you know, these big ticket items.
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Shaan Puri | things come on your | |
Sam Parr | your turn | |
Shaan Puri | Mine, okay, so guest of the year: I had Hasan Minhaj. I thought he brought it.
What I loved about it was that I thought the episode was good, but I loved that he genuinely listens to the pod. It was like a conversation; it wasn't an interview. Almost every guest shows up cold. They usually have heard about the show, but they never listened to it or listened to one episode just to prep for it.
The ones who do, like Dharmesh, he listens to every episode. When he came on, guess what? He's fire! Right? Steph listens to the episodes; she knows the vibe. This was the same.
Now, he's not like a business idea machine, but man, the feedback I got from that episode was people just being like, "Dude, that conversation literally felt like I was in the room." I thought that was something cool. That was something very...
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Sam Parr | are you guys like homies now | |
Shaan Puri | yeah we text all the time and | |
Sam Parr | isn't that funny | |
Andrew Wilkinson | what's the what's the story so he listened and then messaged you or | |
Shaan Puri | How did you guys connect the dot story?
Actually, there's another guy who's a comedy writer for a TV show. His name's Azar, and he writes the show *Remy* on Hulu. He listens to the show; I don't know how he discovered it, but he listens and he was like, "Dude, this is great!"
Now, his network is people in kind of like Hollywood, specifically maybe like Brown Hollywood. So, he tipped a few people off to it. I took a random meeting with him. You know, I have this one block every week just for random spontaneous meetings with cool people that are in my orbit.
So, I took the meeting with him, we had great vibes, we connected well, and I think he then told Husson, "Dude, you gotta listen to this show." From there, he started listening. He reached out, he DM'd me, and was like, "A couple of my Twitter threads went viral, like the Clubhouse one and then this other one, the Metaverse one." After each one, he would reach out and be like, "Dude, that was so good."
One time, he just called me, and at the end of that, I was like, "Dude, we gotta meet." He said, "I'm doing a show in San Francisco, let's come." I go, "Great! Can you stay an extra day and let's record the pod?"
You know, the next day. So, that's what he did. He was like, "Yeah, as long as it's in person, I'll do it." I said, "Great! Can you extend your trip one day?" And that's what he did. He did eight shows over a weekend, and then he stayed an extra Monday, and then we recorded it.
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Sam Parr | god that's pretty badass isn't that awesome that's one of the greatest talks about this | |
Andrew Wilkinson | Another example... So cool! See, this is why I don't understand why anyone does public speaking. Like, you look at this and you're literally reaching millions of people. It's all these random people you'd never expect to meet.
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Shaan Puri | Yeah, and this episode is over. I'm going to click close, and then I'm going to go feed my daughter lunch. I won't have to be on a flight somewhere, you know, like Albuquerque, because I gave a talk.
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Andrew Wilkinson | Well, one of the things I thought was weird... You talked about this on one of the episodes where you said you brainstormed with him business ideas or whatever. Why would you do that if he doesn't like touring? Like, you were like, "Oh yeah, you could tour and make all this money." But dude, I think that seems miserable—flying from city to city, staying in hotels. | |
Shaan Puri | I would say it's both good and bad. I talked to him about it, and he's like, "Well, obviously the feeling of a live crowd is a thrill and exhilaration." Musicians, comedians, and athletes are really the only ones who get that insane love from thousands of people while they perform their best work. That's a pretty good feeling, so that's addictive. The downside... | |
Sam Parr | is it it it is definitely cool when you're single too | |
Shaan Puri | And the other upside is you make a **ton of money** off of it. So, touring is a great business model. It's basically how the music industry makes all its money—off touring and live shows.
Touring is where you can make a substantial amount of money compared to online stuff.
The downside is, you just had his second kid, and you're out of the home for a significant amount of time. Bringing your family on the road can get really tiring, and it can affect your health... blah, blah, blah.
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Andrew Wilkinson | well it's also linear you know you're limited to the number of people that can fit | |
Shaan Puri | in the city I don't know if you did you hear the idea I gave him which was to create you know hamilton for brown people | |
Andrew Wilkinson | yeah the hamilton I thought I like that that's great | |
Shaan Puri | this is a winner | |
Sam Parr | alright let's do the last 2 right | |
Shaan Puri | The last two are "Company to Watch" and a crazy prediction for 2022. So, it's either a company to watch for 2022 or a crazy prediction, or both.
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Sam Parr | No, so then we... Sorry, you're missing one. So it's "company to watch," "industry you've got your eye on next year," and then "prediction." | |
Shaan Puri | yeah something like that yeah do do those 3 | |
Sam Parr | alright let me go first prediction I think san francisco is gonna be cool again | |
Shaan Puri | by the way can I read out our predictions from last year | |
Sam Parr | yeah | |
Shaan Puri | Because I think we got something wrong. Our prediction for last year was that San Francisco would bounce back and continue to be the center of tech for decades.
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Sam Parr | said that | |
Shaan Puri | Yeah, you said that you go... you said, and then your second one was that Pornhub and large companies will... it'll be normal to pay subscriptions for porn.
Okay, I think San Francisco went down the drain this year so far. I don't know anybody paying for porn really, except for I guess OnlyFans. You got that part right; that's huge.
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Andrew Wilkinson | yeah onlyfans that's literally true | |
Sam Parr | so you've | |
Shaan Puri | got that one just not pornhub | |
Sam Parr | then san francisco is still gonna come back I still believe it | |
Shaan Puri | Andrew, you said, "No one's gonna give a shit about COVID in a year. It's gonna bounce back much faster than people think, and they're gonna forget about it." I was like, "Yeah, me too. I agree with you, Andrew. That was mine as well."
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Sam Parr | I think you're wrong | |
Shaan Puri | we were both | |
Andrew Wilkinson | That's... I think it's true. If you go to the States right now, I mean, everything's open. Nobody cares about it. It's totally normal.
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Sam Parr | I don't know not this week | |
Andrew Wilkinson | The fact that we've done an entire episode, we're living in a pandemic, and nobody's mentioned anything about it.
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Sam Parr | an hour and | |
Andrew Wilkinson | a half right | |
Sam Parr | I think it's totally documented both ways. And then what was the other one?
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Shaan Puri | that was it so mine was mine was a cop I I alright + one andrew's | |
Sam Parr | I said my prediction: the company to watch is this YouTuber named Meet Kevin. I've been watching this guy; he has a $51,000,000 portfolio and reveals the whole thing. Now, his business is making $30,000,000 a year with 4 employees.
I think Sean said one day there's going to be a billionaire YouTuber. I think Meet Kevin is the guy who potentially could do it.
The industry that I have my eye on is at-home diagnostics. I'm incredibly fascinated with at-home diagnostics. I've tried all of them, and I think a lot of them are really cool. I believe it's going to continue to boom, and it should continue to boom because we need it.
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Shaan Puri | Okay, great. Andrew, what are yours?
**Company to watch**, **crazy prediction**, and what was the other one?
Yeah, **industry to watch**.
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Andrew Wilkinson | So, company to watch... I mean, it's exciting to talk about all these new businesses. But what I'm actually interested in are all these companies that were incredibly hot, like 3 or 4 years ago, that raised a ton of money and have been kind of quietly building.
For example, Superhuman. You know, everyone was talking about it 2 years ago, but I haven't heard anyone talking about it since. I know they're doing very well, and I can't wait to see what they do with all that money.
Then, the same thing with Pitch. Pitch was huge 2 years ago, and I think they're in a building phase. So, I'm excited to see what they do when they come out of that.
Pitch (pitch.com) is basically replacing PowerPoint. It's like a good version of PowerPoint.
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Shaan Puri | and what | |
Sam Parr | was the url of the first one | |
Andrew Wilkinson | it's awesome oh superhuman.com and pitch | |
Shaan Puri | down crazy any predictions for 2022 yeah bold bold predictions | |
Andrew Wilkinson | Well, you guys put down "prediction" or "opinion." Oh, this is a prediction.
Oh yeah, here we go. I think that this high salary inflation is not here to stay. I think what's happened is all these companies down in San Francisco are going, "Oh, crazy! We can hire cheap people in Canada." But they're not yet going, "Oh hey, we can hire people in India and the Philippines."
One of the things I've realized is that people in India and the Philippines are obviously just as smart, but they're far more motivated. The cost is like a fifth or a sixth of what a North American employee is, and they really want the job. They care.
So you can either pay an entitled millennial $150, or you can pay someone $30 in India, and they'll do a better job. The money means more to them.
So I think over time, the work will be democratized across the world, and that salaries will come back. I agree with you.
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Sam Parr | I just don't think it's gonna happen next year | |
Shaan Puri | By the way, I forgot one category that's a great one, which is the **overrated thing**. This refers to something you are betting against that other people seem to be into. Do you guys have one there?
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Sam Parr | mine was the creator economy | |
Andrew Wilkinson | oh nfts | |
Sam Parr | I had nfts in the creator economy | |
Shaan Puri | that's really | |
Sam Parr | and and and web 3 | |
Andrew Wilkinson | image image nfts | |
Shaan Puri | And Web 3, give us your quick thoughts on NFTs. Why do you think it's the most overrated trend right now?
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Andrew Wilkinson | Well, I think it's... it's obviously the technology is fascinating, right? So that's amazing. But I think it's kind of like digital Beanie Babies that are easily replicable. At least Beanie Babies are kind of hard to replicate. These are just like images that you can download that anyone can use.
I think that over the long term, they'll be really cool once there's a standard. If every metaverse or every app uses one API and everyone agrees that this is the way to access images or whatever, and it's verifiable, I think that'll be incredibly cool and powerful.
I love the idea of like Taylor Swift saying, "Hey, I'm selling my song rights to my fans, and whenever anyone transacts, I get 10% or whatever." That's amazing!
But I just think right now it's all half-baked, and all the protocols are made up and won't exist in five years.
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Shaan Puri | I think I'm gonna win our bet okay remind remind me | |
Andrew Wilkinson | it was 10 years right 5 years or 10 years | |
Shaan Puri | what was the exact bet | |
Andrew Wilkinson | Yeah, we have a bet. I believe you chose a piece of digital art and you said it would be worth more in the future. I said it would be less. | |
Shaan Puri | Yes, great! Okay, so I have a company to watch. I have a company called Terra, which is Terraform Labs. They've created something called Luna.
One of the biggest challenges in crypto is that people are like, "Oh, Bitcoin, it's cool," but it can't be used as a currency because it's too volatile. The solution that the crypto community came up with was something called stablecoins.
Stablecoins are super important. There are billions of dollars transacted every day—well, maybe it's a month—using stablecoins with significant volume. There's a stablecoin called UST, but Luna is the token that backs it. I think Luna has been on this tear. It started the year at maybe a dollar, and it's currently at about $100. So, it's about a 100x in a year. It's been a great investment for me, and I continue to believe that it's going to work.
Interestingly, it's actually being used in the real world, which is one of the other criticisms of crypto. In Korea, Mongolia, and a bunch of different places, people use the stablecoin without even knowing that they are using it. They just use their mobile app to pay, and they don't realize that in the background, it's being done on these crypto rails.
There's an app in Korea called Chai, I think it is, that has a few million users. It's a payments app that uses this stablecoin as the underlying mechanism. So, it's the company to watch, I think, in the next year. If you can actually crack the stablecoin use case, you know, Bitcoin cracked the store of value use case and became $50,000 a coin, right now, and not going down. Ethereum is the programmable network; it's the compute layer. It cracked that and reached $4,000 a token. Last year, it was at like $200, so that's been an amazing investment.
Luna is the number one contender right now, I think, for stablecoins, and so I'm keeping an eye on that. | |
Sam Parr | okay and what are the others | |
Shaan Puri | The industry I have my eye on is actually **VR**. Most people think VR is just dead or doesn't work, but I don't know if you guys know this, but **Oculus** outsold **Xbox** this year.
Oculus sold **10,000,000** units, which is about **$4,000,000,000** in revenue for **Facebook** just from the hardware. This doesn't even include the revenue from games and the app store that they have now.
**Xbox** had some production shortages, so it probably would have been more, but just to round it up, Oculus did about **10,000,000** units, and **PlayStation** did **14,000,000**. So it's not that far behind.
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Andrew Wilkinson | Do you remember when Xbox had that weird little bar that you could put...? | |
Shaan Puri | over your | |
Andrew Wilkinson | TV, and you could like move your hands, connect... right? That was a huge bestseller. But it was still a gimmick. I bought one; everyone thought it was cool. I remember I played it for like a day, and then I was like, "Whatever, this isn't ready."
I did the same thing. I've bought an Oculus every single year for the last 3 or 4 years, and every single time I feel sick and uncomfortable. No... every time.
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Sam Parr | time I use it | |
Andrew Wilkinson | this sucks | |
Shaan Puri | it's cool and then it's every | |
Sam Parr | Every time I use it, I say to myself, "It's not there yet." But I buy into it.
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Andrew Wilkinson | I think apple I think apple is gonna dump a couple | |
Shaan Puri | of signs | |
Andrew Wilkinson | I think apple is secretly | |
Shaan Puri | In the industry of VR, there are a couple of signs that I think are really promising. One is that over **60 games** made over **$1,000,000** on the platform, which I think is pretty impressive. Additionally, **6 games** made over **$10,000,000**, so I think that's also pretty impressive growth.
I believe VR is something that most people think is not happening, but it's growing rapidly. I thought that was pretty good.
Now, let's see... what's a crazy prediction? Okay, my craziest prediction is that the Winklevoss twins end up richer than Zuckerberg. So here's the case of how the Winklevoss get their revenge in the end.
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Sam Parr | oh my god | |
Shaan Puri | They own about 1% of all Bitcoin in circulation. They also own Gemini, an exchange, which is probably valued at somewhere between $20 billion and $30 billion. | |
Sam Parr | they own 1% of bitcoin | |
Shaan Puri | They want 1% of all the Bitcoin. They also own a substantial amount of Ethereum (ETH), but they haven't announced how much.
If crypto actually has its heyday and Bitcoin goes up to... well, here's what you need to believe: I don't think this is a 2022 bet at all. This is more of a 5-year bet.
If you think that Facebook has peaked and that Facebook doesn't grow or even maybe drops 15-20% in value, considering they're priced as a growth stock, and if you think that Bitcoin gets to $500,000 and ETH gets to $50,000, and Gemini ends up going public, they will actually be worth more than Zuck, who is worth $130 billion today.
I think that is just crazy. The sequel to the "Social Network" movie is that these guys actually end up wealthier than Zuck in the end. So, that's my crazy prediction.
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Andrew Wilkinson | that'd be hilarious | |
Sam Parr | alright that's good | |
Shaan Puri | And then, oh my, my overrated trend, by the way, I like it. My overrated trend is SPACs.
So, you know, in the last 10 years, before the SPAC trend, there was like, I don't know, I think it was around $40 billion to $45 billion of SPACs total in like 10 years. Then last year, there was $80 billion, so it doubled. It doubled again this year, reaching $160 billion.
If you just look at SPAC performance, like just if you take Chamath's SPACs—Chamath, who I think really started this trend—year to date, I think his average is down 30% year to date.
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Sam Parr | and did he make money off that | |
Shaan Puri | yes he made yeah a ton of money | |
Andrew Wilkinson | Yeah, that's **bullshit**. He guaranteed money. This is why it's messed up. They all... you make the money no matter what.
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Shaan Puri | There's a, you know, "heads I win, tails you lose" setup. I don't really like it.
What happened here is that the sponsor, the promoter, makes money either way. You know, his stocks are down; his SPACs are all down 30%. Meanwhile, the overall S&P 500 is up 30%.
So, you know, it's a massive delta there. I think SPACs are the overrated trend or the thing to the bandwagon I don't want to be on. If you're not the promoter, I don't think it's a great place to be right now. | |
Sam Parr | how does that make you feel andrew as a spac er | |
Andrew Wilkinson | well I'm not a spac er I don't know | |
Sam Parr | wait ecommerce wasn't a spac | |
Andrew Wilkinson | No, no, no. Bloomberg misreported us as a SPAC. We did something called a reverse takeover, which is kind of like a SPAC, but instead of having a SPAC where the sponsor gets 20%, they're getting like 0.01% of your business. They're just these little shell companies. So, no, we're not... we don't have a SPAC. | |
Shaan Puri | On a typical SPAC, it's like $100 million, right? 20%... 20% of whatever they raise.
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Andrew Wilkinson | So, I... or no, 20% of the future company. If you have a $1,000,000,000 company, you're literally saying, "I'll give you $200,000,000 to take me public."
The math on it is, with a SPAC, you can show projections, which is really, really valuable for a growth company. It's a little more flexible, and the timing is a little shorter when you go public. Rules, you don't...
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Shaan Puri | Get to lose your... you don't do projections; you only do historicals with a SPAC. No, you get to show your fancy projections about whatever you think the future looks like. I think you only have to buy in for 2 or 3%, but you get 20%. So that's your spread as the promoter. You pay 2% of the price and you get 20%. I don't know how SPACs work exactly, but it's something like that.
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Sam Parr | This is a good episode, I think. Ben, what do we think? It was a long one, but I think it's going to end up being a hit. Was last year's a hit?
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Shaan Puri | yeah last year's was a hit | |
Ben Wilson | Yeah, I wasn't here for last year, but I thought this was really great. What was that you mentioned? This really cool podcast, man. What was that one called again?
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Sam Parr | how to take | |
Shaan Puri | over the | |
Sam Parr | world baby | |
Andrew Wilkinson | how to take over the world | |
Sam Parr | the the if anything it's the best intro music I've ever heard | |
Ben Wilson | Yeah, there you go. No, it was a great episode. It was my first time attending it, but Andrew brought the fire. The predictions were a little predictable, I will say that. But other than that, the recommendations, the companies, and the products were all good. |