Meet The Man Behind Conor McGregor’s +$650M Empire (#487)

Sam Parr

What was reported I think was 30 to connor and a 100 to floyd was that what was reported

Audie Attar

I think it was certainly higher for Connor, that I know. And, you know, for Floyd, I would imagine it would be probably around there or higher, just depending on what he did. Again, wow.

Sam Parr

you really think that 100,000,000 was true

Audie Attar

Well, I mean, Connor was under, you know, I'd say just under $100,000 right when it's all said and done. So that's his part. Again, he has a part. We had a partner in UFC, and I won't get into the specifics, but yeah, from Floyd's side, it's very reasonable to think that he could've pulled in $100,000, assuming that he didn't take it all.

Sam Parr

Audie, I see all these interviews with you. I see you on the UFC, like behind-the-scenes stuff, and you're always wearing slick suits. You're dressed nice right now, but I just saw that you're drinking out of a Stanley mug. Just to remind everyone at home, no matter how fancy someone is, we all have a little basicness inside of us.

Audie Attar

You know, I always say that business is much like sports. You have to wear your uniform to play the game, right? But we're all human at the end of the day. We all have our casual clothes or, you know, our at-home attire.

Sam Parr

I've only seen one interview with you. I've watched a bunch of interviews, but there's only one where you weren't wearing a suit. You were wearing Lululemon and a hat. That was the only time I've seen that.

Audie Attar

It's a pleasure to meet you guys. I have to switch it up now, man. That's it, you know? I have to switch it up.

Shaan Puri

Zig and zag the other way because I think a lot of people in the talent management and agent space are all very slick-looking. You should go the other way. You should go **athleisure** as your main thing because you were an athlete, so I feel like you can pull that off. A lot of guys in that space will all look like suits to you, you know, in comparison.

Audie Attar

I'm gonna have to, man. I'm gonna have to make people remember that I was actually one of them before I became a suit. Exactly.

Sam Parr

There was, well, there was some bum out there in San Francisco who was the first person to wear just like, you know, pajama bottoms and a T-shirt instead of a suit. That's your burden now, I guess.

Audie Attar

I was from Cali too, so I gotta start just rocking flip flops. You know what I mean? Just all good with the flip flops and the shorts.

Shaan Puri

In Silicon Valley, it's like the opposite. I remember when I first moved here, I went to this nice kind of club speakeasy-type thing. Everybody's waiting in line, and a guy walks up with a hoodie and... you know, just looks completely disheveled. The bouncers are like: "Alright, this guy's either homeless or a billionaire. We don't know which one. We gotta just err on the side of 'maybe this is like the next Mark Zuckerberg.' Let him in, let him in first!" That way, I realized, "Oh shit, the status game is different here."

Audie Attar

That's funny, I heard a lot about that. Yeah, it's certainly counterculture, if you will, to business. The normal New York hustle is all suit and tie, whereas the San Francisco hustle is definitely flip-flops and holes in your t-shirt.

Sam Parr

You know, your introduction here is... it's, it's, it's... you've done a bunch of stuff. So, you've started Paradigm, which you just call it an agency, a sports agency, or a sports management company.

Audie Attar

I'd say it's a sports management and entertainment platform it's what it is

Sam Parr

Platform... alright, with the most famous guy being Conor McGregor. But I also think you have Izzy. Do you have one more champion on there? I thought you had three.

Audie Attar

So, Izzy is a former client of ours, but he was definitely an amazing client while he was with us: Michael Bisping.

Sam Parr

michael bisping

Audie Attar

Steve Wittman, Jorge Masvidal, Michael Chandler, Paige VanZant, Rico Verhoeven... Past clients obviously like Chris Lytle, who's actually one of my first clients. That's how I got into the sport. But yeah, very fortunate to work with some of the greatest fighters of all time.

Sam Parr

Yeah, so just a bunch of ballers. But then you also co-founded Proper 12, which we're going to ask you all about. According to the headlines, it was like a $600 million exit. So you've had some maybe even more success there than the main thing.

Shaan Puri

What's cool is, you run a talent agency. Part of your business is talent management, and that's great. There are a bunch of our audience members who also own agencies, which I think is fantastic. But what I liked about you is that you also have the venture side. You're creating brands and business ventures off the talent. We've talked about these kinds of creator brands in the past. We had MrBeast on here, and he's got all these kinds of brands like Feastables and other corporate brands underneath it. We also had Instagram star Danny Austin come on, and she's got Divvy, a haircare brand that's doing way more money than she can get just from influencer brand deals. So, what I like is that you've got both. And Rob Dyrdek, yeah, Rob Dyrdek, you've got both as well. That's been a theme that we've kind of been playing with. I think we'll try to hop around a little bit, but I definitely want...

Audie Attar

to bless you bless you I mean I'll be remiss if I didn't give you those 2 sorry

Shaan Puri

oh wow what a gentleman look at that

Sam Parr

thank you

Audie Attar

john may edit it out and and then that yeah it's not

Shaan Puri

That's a character shower right there. I'm like, if Sam's dying over there, I'm gonna finish mine. I don't care.

Sam Parr

hell yeah

Audie Attar

he's good he'll come back

Shaan Puri

yeah exactly

Audie Attar

No, no, I appreciate the recognition. Look, I mean, we certainly feel we're one of the early platforms or agencies, if you will, that really saw not only an opportunity but, more so, wanted to do more for our clients. We wanted to disrupt our respective industry but also think far beyond that and not just think transactional. For me, in mixed martial arts, it was an underserved market. We wanted to not only advocate for our clients but advocate for the sport, really push fighter earnings higher and higher, which still have a long way to go, but they've come a long way from when we first started back in 2009 in the sport. We were very fortunate because we came in right before the first rights deal was actually paid. The UFC was paying to be on Spike prior to the Fox deal. As most people know, that's the main economic driver of any professional sports organization, whether it's the NFL, the NBA, and now, obviously, from a mixed martial arts perspective, the UFC.

Shaan Puri

they were paying spike to put themselves on tv

Audie Attar

That's publicly known. They were actually paying for that airtime. The original Ultimate Fighter and all that was broadcast on Spike back in the day. They were not only funding their own production, but they were also paying for that airtime. Fox was the first paid deal that the UFC garnered, which was a monumental milestone for the sport and for the promotion of mixed martial arts. It wouldn't be here without the UFC, which is the catalyst for where the sport is today. Now, you have other promotions that are competing. Promotion is very synonymous with leagues. When you talk about leagues, there are certain terminologies within the sports world that are very similar, although there are a lot of differences as well. For example, athletes in the NFL and NBA are employees, while fighters are independent contractors. For us, we saw an opportunity not only in the fastest growing sport in an underserved market for the athletes, but also in thinking beyond just management. How could we create more value for the clients? It takes a special client and a special personality, like Conor McGregor. I was very fortunate to sign him 10 years ago. We had a vision, and he was very bullish about that vision as well.

Shaan Puri

Let's rewind... Let's rewind to that. So, your story is kind of the... I'll give you the first part very fast. You played football at UCLA, ended up getting injured, and then moved into the management side of things. You had some football players as your first clients, and then you branched into MMA. You discovered Conor McGregor. Can you tell the story? How did you discover Conor? What was his situation like at that time? What was that first meeting like? Take us back to those days.

Audie Attar

Yeah, sure. So, I think taking it back to the early days is really important. I worked with guys like Chris Lydall. I got to work with him for one fight, and then he retired. Then, it was a massive opportunity for me to sign Michael Bisping. I'm so proud of him, not only as a client but as a friend as well. He went on to be the first British champion, the first UFC champion from the UK. He’s a pioneer of mixed martial arts for all the up-and-coming athletes within Europe, including Ireland. I was very fortunate to start working with Michael and other clients earlier in my career in the UFC and mixed martial arts in particular. When I signed Conor McGregor, it was when he first came onto the UFC scene. He was fighting in the regional promotion in Europe, Cage Warriors, which is still around. Let’s call it mid-majors. These are, to some extent, professional promotions, but they’re feeder programs for the larger promotions. Conor had just signed with the UFC, and we were introduced, interestingly enough, through Facebook. At the time, he was looking at signing with one of the agencies in the sport. I got an opportunity to pitch him and coach John Kavanagh on why I felt we would be the best fit for him. You’ve got to put your best foot forward, give it a shot, and hopefully win that business. I was fortunate enough that we got the first opportunity to work with him heading into his first fight. We were saying, "Okay, let’s pause now and talk after this first fight." So, he beats Marcus Brimage.

Sam Parr

was that the 5th 50 gs baby

Audie Attar

Yep, that's the famous line from that fight. After that, his second fight was his U.S. debut, actually, against Max Holloway. We started to work with one another heading into that fight, and so the rest is history. One of the things we recognize is not only his athletic ability, but he had something special. He had a unique talent inside the octagon, but you could tell he was very special and charismatic. He had that "it" factor that I think is once in a generation for an athlete. This is not only from a physical perspective but also from a qualitative perspective. So, you know, the sky was going to be the limit in terms of what we could do together.

Sam Parr

And was that... I mean, I've seen all the older interviews where Conor still has acne, he has no tattoos, and he says, "You know, mark my words, you will see me in the UFC. You will see me as a champion one day." Then, coming up to that Marcus fight, and then I think it was Dennis Siver in Boston, if I remember correctly. In the early days, you still see that he has some type of star power on camera. But behind the scenes, even at a young age in his early twenties, did you notice that the confidence and the star power were there just in your normal hanging out sessions?

Audie Attar

Yeah, you could definitely see his charisma behind the scenes. He was, like I said, very witty, very confident, but also very engaging. One of the things I always tell people is that the majority of people in the world know who Conor McGregor is. I would argue that most of them have never seen him fight. They've actually seen more of his interviews and him talking. When he talks, you can't take your eyes off of him, right? He's just so fun. Whether you love him or hate him, you're watching him. I think that's what makes him special.

Shaan Puri

Yeah, you find that Connor is kind of like... we've had guys on this podcast that are like, "Yeah, I discovered Uber. I was like the 5th investor in Uber," or, you know, like their early investors in Facebook or something like that, right? It's like an angel investment that goes on to become this... what do we call it? It's kind of like a unicorn, right? It looks like this $1,000,000,000 brand that you discover at that early age. Were other people pitching him for business at that time? Because I remember that first Bremege fight, there was like a hype around him. Even his entrance, people were really excited about him. And I...

Audie Attar

I didn't know who he was at the time, so I don't even know how people were so excited about the guy at that time. So, I imagine that, you know...

Shaan Puri

there were other agents trying

Audie Attar

to win that business at that time

Shaan Puri

Do you have any good, fun anecdotes or stories of your hustle at that time to get him? Or was it like, no, people... It was kind of like an ignored asset. People didn't realize that this was going to be... that he was going to be a big deal. And it really was... it didn't look like it was.

Audie Attar

like this hotly contested thing no I definitely think that people were were you know hot on him but I think everybody was pitching him on the same idea it was more transactional and I think what where where I stood out surely was because I I had a broader vision I had a broader vision of creating ip you know and creating media and content but also creating business ventures right and I really was bullish in on that idea and I I remember even when I first launched paradigm 2009 my business plan was not only to be the best in class from a management perspective but build clients' media and ip where whereby building more brand equities to them and that will yield not only more ancillary revenues from a sponsorship perspective but increase their value from a from their playing contract or perspective athletically and also leads to to business ventures and you know I I was laughed at when I first had that business plan it's too busy focused on what you could do you know like and and I think that that's what stood out to him because he had that vision in for himself as well and it was even if you think about what we did back in 2017 with the floyd fight I mean everybody thought we were crazy you know that that fight was never gonna happen and everybody doubted us everybody even some of those ended up doing the deal and partnering with us so ultimately you know we had to believe in ourselves and and more importantly go out and actually execute right because you could have dreams you could have visions you could start something but if you don't execute successfully it means nothing and now that trend is common those exhibitions now are commonplace you see everybody now taking place in these exhibitions and there's an appetite from a consumer perspective for these unique matchups where people are are matched up from from different sports just to to compete in combat sports and then we even launched our venture on the back of that we launched proper 2018 and so you know again at that time I think it was maybe george clooney and and maybe puff daddy at the time you know but I don't think anybody else now like spirits everybody has a has some type of a of a a liquor brand that they're they're hawking and and then ventures is commonplace as well so you know to me I'm proud of the fact that we had this vision that we were able to execute more importantly you know because it's very hard to do it's hand to hand combat everyday entrepreneurship

Sam Parr

I want to ask you about the Prop 12 stuff, but before that, I grew up watching *Entourage*. You see characters like Ari Emanuel or Ari Gold dealing with crazy young actors who have money. It's all about drugs and sex. Then there's *Ballers*, which also features drugs and sex, but the difference is that *Ballers* is about the NFL. Now, when it comes to UFC fighters, you're not an actor or a player. You're going to get out there in your underwear and fight to the death in front of millions of people. Can you tell me a little bit about the difference between managing someone like Conor or Izzy? I imagine they can be a bit crazy. What's that mindset like on a daily basis? Particularly when it comes to business, have you found that you need to hold them back from being overly aggressive sometimes? What's that like with that type of athlete?

Audie Attar

Well, first of all, I don't think they're crazy per se. It's not, you know, because of the profession or the sport that they're in that they tend to be maybe a little bit, you know, crazy, so to speak, right?

Sam Parr

I mean like when I say crazy I mean like high high risk high risk

Audie Attar

Well, I think, look, it means depending on the field you're in, that's subjective. What you think is high risk and what is not. Most people that come to us say, if you're a neurosurgeon, you're going to think combat sports is super high risk. But ultimately, I think every human being is different. There's certainly... when you're that competitive, you're going to be driven, you're going to be more aggressive. I think I see it even in business. At the highest level, there's that chip on the shoulder, that edge that every high-level competitor has, whether it's an athlete in different sports or a businessman or woman at the highest level of their respective field. So, obviously, business acumen varies. If you're talking about an institutional investor versus a professional athlete, that varies. But even within the sport, you have athletes that have a very high level of business acumen. Conor's not trained from an institutional perspective; he didn't go get his MBA. He doesn't have that academic background, if you will. But he's a very natural businessman.

Sam Parr

what what's a what's a story as an example of that

Audie Attar

I mean, his story is Proper 12. He could have easily taken a check from a sponsorship perspective and been so shortsighted. Instead, he put up his own capital initially, finding the right operating partner and the right strategic capital supply chain route to market. He went out and created his own working model without getting the sponsorship check for a certain amount of posts or appearances, if you will, for an ultimate windfall that changes life and creates generational wealth. So that in itself is a great example.

Sam Parr

Did you guys have like Jameson, where they were like, "Hey, we want to sponsor you," and you were like, "Dude, fuck this, Connor. Let's do our own thing"?

Audie Attar

He's always had a desire to get into whiskey. It's like he's Irish; it's part of their DNA, right? His grandfather was a whiskey man. We always had the idea when we were approached by a sponsor. It was like, do we go and pursue a sponsorship and take a check, or do we just go and own our own business? When you study the category and look at the total addressable market (TAM) and the opportunity, you're like, "We could do this. This is right for disruption. We actually could really come in and do something here." That is a perfect example of his natural business acumen, right? Because it's hard to do that, especially at that level. He wasn't making a ton of money yet, up until we got to the Floyd flight, which is, by the way, when we announced our entry into the market. We announced our entry into the whiskey market in our post-flight press conference.

Shaan Puri

remember he's he's holding the glass at the

Sam Parr

post fight

Audie Attar

We started the process in 2014, and we were doing a lot of research and development, pivoting from different groups. Ultimately, we found the right formula, if you will, and the right team, etcetera. The rest is history. To me, that takes a lot of intelligence for an athlete who's not trained and hasn't had the experience of building a business. Moreover, it takes patience to really bet on himself.

Sam Parr

How much of your guys' capital did you put up to get it off the ground? Do you remember what your first year sales were? What was it?

Audie Attar

Well, I'll tell you, I can't disclose all the information just due to strict confidentiality provisions that exist with our partners and our acquirer. So, I gotta be safe. But I could tell you that we put up probably a few hundred thousand of our own capital initially. I could say that, right? Most of that went to lawyers, if you will, just before we even got started. Strategically, I think the way we set it up is great. We have fantastic partners. One of our partners is an operating genius and a wizard in the spirits business, Ken Austin. So, I gotta give him a shout-out because I...

Sam Parr

he had another company right

Audie Attar

I mean, he did Avion, then he did Proper with us. He's done Terramatta, and now he's done the Lolo, Jim, Jaylen. Oh, he's a... he's a... he's a G when it comes to experience in business, you know?

Sam Parr

And when you find people like that, are you doing just like a 30-30-30? Like, you know, you guys all split equity?

Audie Attar

what

Sam Parr

I I

Audie Attar

Can't go into the details of the cap table; I wish I could. But again, there are strong confidentiality provisions in all agreements. However, it was a fair deal, and I think everybody's happy in the end. Moreover, you need to bring on a black belt who knows what they're doing. Because at the end of the day, that's part of operating a business and being successful. It's like, you know what you don't know, but essentially, no matter what the cap table looks like, you have to make sure you bring on the right expertise. From an operational perspective, you need to have all the right ingredients to execute successfully.

Shaan Puri

So, even with something like that, let's say just to put this in perspective: the decision to say, "Well, we could just take a straight sponsorship deal, get a check, make a few Instagram posts, and cash that check," versus "We're going to do the entrepreneurial work and actually build a brand." The payoff difference, I imagine you could tell me, is probably about 100 to 1. Would that be approximate? So, you know, if you just say, "Okay, over a few years, we would have a kind of an alcohol sponsor, and we're doing these scheduled posts with them or commercials with them or whatever it may be," I think it's probably something like 50 to 100 times bigger return by doing the work. Is that correct?

Audie Attar

You do you. I would say it's more... it's a multiple of that. You think a multiple of that? A few hundred? Do how?

Sam Parr

much would a sponsor should have been

Audie Attar

I mean, back at that time, you know, when we first started the process, it would have been like $150,000 - $200,000, something like that. That would have been bigger. By the time we launched, he probably was in the 7-figure range, yeah, in terms of sponsorship annually.

Sam Parr

that's like an annual deal

Audie Attar

annual deal right yeah

Sam Parr

Okay, so a million... some... $1,000,000 per year in order to promote a whiskey.

Shaan Puri

versus 100 of 1,000,000

Audie Attar

Yeah, exactly. I would say it was... you could run any analysis unit in NPV and look at how we won, and won big.

Shaan Puri

You talked about the Mayweather-McGregor fight and how that came to be. Nobody thought it was going to happen, and then it actually did. It was kind of amazing. I remember vividly where I was. I was in Australia, and I had to get up at a certain time. I was at a bar at like 5 in the morning or something like that to watch that fight. But I also remember the buildup. There was this kind of back-and-forth, almost flirting on social media, talking trash to each other to try to generate interest. I think both guys, Floyd and Conor, are probably the two smartest businessmen to come through combat sports. They kind of knew, "Okay, this is the right dance partner for us to execute something orders of magnitude bigger than what we could do." At the time, it was seen as almost like the Elon Musk-Mark Zuckerberg thing today, where it's like, "Wow, it'd be crazy if it happened, but there's no way." I mean, just getting all these people to agree seemed impossible. Can you take us back? I see all these videos of you hanging out at Conor's house or whatever, and you get the behind-the-scenes stuff. There had to have been just a couch conversation where you guys were like, "Okay, could we do this? How could we do this?" What were the early days like before it came to fruition?

Audie Attar

so I to your. I think you know you have 2 of the smarter and savvy businessmen in combat sports that really understood you know the modern day fandom of both sports right and early days like he wants to do it and then it would be shot down by ufc by by members of the media by whoever that just doubted that it would ever happen and I think that the the banter is really what allowed it to happen because once they started going back and forth and you could actually see the level of engagement and interest from a market perspective and from a consumer perspective it it was hard to deny it right it was hard to deny it because it was like this is real it's viable it it's a it's a win win scenario and a win for all parties who'd be involved why not right the fans want it the fighters want it and and moreover the numbers were speaking for themselves from an analytics perspective so that allowed us to really use what the 2 fighters were intelligently doing on a very instinctive level right that wasn't planned that wasn't scripted it was very instinctive but moreover I think what what my job is is to look at the data and be like right there's something very viable here there's something that you know you have to be able to take and continue to to to advocate and push for your client because you could effectively have a successful business opportunity even for the ufc and so that I think it took them a while to come around but eventually they did because they realized there was just such amazing and intense interest around this event that it it was real it wasn't a gimmick it was something that everybody wanted to see and so I think that was credit to them too because again it went against all their their their normal business practice they'd never done something like that before and it took you know I think for them to see the substance of it all to then move forward with us and ultimately it was a huge success I mean over 4,000,000 buys I mean I think there's probably there's a something there was some report I remember receiving it was yeah like 100 of millions of illegal streams I mean like and we still did over 4,000,000 buys you know what I mean like so could you imagine if like

Shaan Puri

it was the most bootlegged fight ever

Audie Attar

Yeah, anyway, if we would have just been able to plug some of those holes, think about how many more buys we would have had, right? But I mean, it was such a commercial success. I mean...

Sam Parr

Can I ask you a quick question about those buys? Yeah, so you said 4,000,000 buys. I'm not attacking this strictly about this fight, but when I see pay-per-view numbers like what the headlines are, I think most of them are complete bullshit. I think that when a fighter says, like, for example, I remember Floyd has multiple times said he's earned 9 figures, so $100,000,000 off of one fight. I think I've seen Conor say... I think he was just talking shit, but he's like, "Oh, I'm making this much money off this Cowboy Cerrone fight." I think those are nonsense. The reason I think they're nonsense is it's almost like a rapper bragging about how much money they have. It's like part...

Shaan Puri

of the brand

Sam Parr

You're not... it's part of your brand. And also, no one's incentivized like Dana [White], or Showtime, or HBO. They're not incentivized to tell the public that, you know, "This dude's full of shit. We gave him $2,000,000. He didn't earn $20,000,000 off this thing."

Audie Attar

oh well I no let me let me just

Sam Parr

there's a it's not public information

Audie Attar

That's unloaded because there are certain elements that could be hypothetically true. But, for example, compensation is not fully reported when you're talking about UFC, particularly MMA. Like, that's not fully reported what the person's really [earning] at the highest level.

Sam Parr

that's yeah

Audie Attar

you know what I mean so so it's actually more

Sam Parr

it's even that true because I

Audie Attar

It's just what's reported to the commission, assuming that they don't have, let's call it, another agreement. So that's not true in terms of pay-per-view. There's speculation. For example, with Mayweather and McGregor in particular, there were rumors starting to trickle in that it did over 6,000,000 buys or something to that extent. You know what I mean? But it landed in like the 4.3 to 4.4 million range, and that's actual. Right? I mean, ultimately, those are not fudged numbers. So what you were hearing about what potentially Conor made and potentially Floyd made on our side, I know it's more true on the Floyd side. I don't know if he divulges who he splits it with or what that looks like on his side, so I can't comment on that. But UFC was our partner, so I know what we're reporting for Conor was Conor's.

Sam Parr

what was reported I think was 30 to connor and a 100 to floyd was that what was reported

Audie Attar

I don't think so, but maybe. I mean, in terms of what you're talking about, reported to the commission or the papers.

Sam Parr

No, no journalist ever actually breaks that down, you know what I mean? So that's why I'm saying these numbers are so high. I hear that, and I've... well, it was.

Audie Attar

Higher, I think. For... I think it was certainly higher for Conor, that I know. And, you know, for Floyd, I would imagine it would be probably around there or higher, just depending on what he did. Again, wow.

Sam Parr

you really think that 100,000,000 was true

Audie Attar

Well, I mean, Connor was under, you know, I'd say just under $100 million, right, when it's all said and done. So that's his part. Again, he has a partner in UFC, and I won't get into the specifics, but yeah, from Floyd's side, it's very reasonable to think that he could've pulled in $100 million, assuming that he didn't take it all and didn't have partners he split with.

Shaan Puri

You're a business guy, so you see what Floyd did in the boxing business. He basically became his own promoter and runs his own ship so that he can take the lion's share of the revenue or the profits that come from an event. In the past, guys like Mike Tyson and others sort of got screwed because they were out there fighting, generating all this demand. Then, ten years later, they look around and ask, "Where's all the money?" The promoter has basically enriched themselves in that way. Obviously, the UFC is totally different; it's like a league and works differently. But a guy like Conor McGregor is essentially as big of a brand as the UFC. It's debatable, but they're in the same air. If Conor McGregor were to do a fight on YouTube pay-per-view or whatever he wanted to do, he could pull the same numbers as a UFC card without the UFC's promotion. Do you think, when you see what Floyd did, that anyone is ever going to do that with the UFC or in MMA? Will they become their own promoter and have their own shows?

Hubspot

I think the sport is still young and is still evolving right and while the ufc is to some extent synonymous to league as a promotion it's still structured to some extent you know like prize fighting right there's still pay per view and even though there's rankings sometimes you'll see the rankings are not it's not true meritocracy because it's still prize fighting and entertainment to some extent right and and I think that they have come a long way but they still have a long way to go in terms of how much fighters should could earn should earn but the end of the day too from a boxing perspective I think that's why boxing has been on the decline it's still fragmented right and there's at the end of the day there's not a a a true promotion that's that's stood the test of time I know top rank's been around forever right but who do they really have matching seems to be doing more obviously premier is still around and still pbc is still competing but you see it kind of fragmented right canelo fight for match and won one for for a couple fights and I spot fighting for pbc for a fight and and I and the difference is though I think in boxing promotions could fight each other and and so they have to agree on that right I think in mma it's gonna continue to evolve right you now have the ability can connor do that of course I think connor is one of probably the only person who can carry his own show it's very difficult to do right it's hard to go how many 1,000,000 pay per view sellers are there in either sport not a lot you know it's like it's it's not that easy to do so I think that from a from a ufc perspective they've always looked at it as like look we're we're building something that's sustainable and they are correct in that regard but I think that fighters definitely should have a a bigger piece of the revenues as this thing continues to grow which I think they've come a long way but they still have a long way to go right this data is wrong every freaking time have you heard of hubspot hubspot is a crm platform where everything is fully integrated woah I can see the client's whole history calls support tickets emails and here's a task from 3 days ago I totally missed hubspot grow better yeah

Shaan Puri

I was gonna say, you know, the other group that's trying to do their own shows is the kind of Jake Paul and Logan Paul style thing. They're doing these celebrity matches, high-interest fights, and getting people to buy pay-per-views for that. It seems to honestly be working. I don't know what you think about those guys, but I personally used to be like, "Oh, you know, I kind of wrote them off as just like they were in the Jackass crowd of the YouTube generation or the Vine generation." Then they said they were gonna do this boxing thing. I thought, "Who knows how seriously they'll take it?" But honestly, they've done a good job of actually building up interest, pulling these events off, and being respectable. They show up very respectably and have won several of these fights.

Audie Attar

You can't hate on them, man. You can't hate on them, mate. Yeah, look, they're putting in the time. Actually, our client, Dylan Danis, is fighting Logan Paul coming up. That's right.

Sam Parr

dylan dandis is your client yeah

Audie Attar

yeah so he's spot

Sam Parr

he's not

Shaan Puri

that is

Sam Parr

so funny are you the

Shaan Puri

genius behind his current marketing strategy is that your did you sign off on that no

Audie Attar

no no that's all dylan I thought I thought

Sam Parr

You might have been his client. There's a famous video where Nate Diaz and Dylan are getting into it, and Nate threw a beer on Dylan. I saw you in the video trying to be like the father in the whole situation. You were like, "Hey Nate, Dylan, could you guys please walk away?" Is that accurate?

Audie Attar

Didn't work out. My kids didn't listen, you know, that's enough. But no, you gotta give those guys credit. I mean, look, I think they're putting in time in their craft. They're going in there and they're not only taking a shot, risking it... You know, I could argue that they're not really doing it against real boxers. That's true. I think they're being more strategic. But, you know, again, credit has to go to Connor, right? Who created that trend? It was us versus Mayweather. Now, I mean, even if Floyd goes and fights someone else, he doesn't get the same result without it being another two guys facing each other. While I give all of them credit too, I don't think you've seen this blockbuster event that anybody's been hoping for. So, at the end of the day, though, there's a market. There's an appetite from a consumer to go look at, you know, me and you, Sean. I don't think we may only get 100 people that tune in, but nonetheless, there's a market there. I do probably think they're even on YouTube. Sam is gonna have to pay; he doesn't get you.

Shaan Puri

underestimate how many people wanna see if we

Audie Attar

get my ass hooked likewise my friend I think you're right you're right

Shaan Puri

So, what are the... They've been begging to get Connor in there. I think that's the white whale that Jake Paul's chasing. What is the percent chance that a fight between Connor McGregor and Jake Paul ever happens?

Audie Attar

I mean, right now Conor's focused on Michael Chandler. I'm saying... ever... I can tell you Floyd and Floyd, the rematch is there. Logan Paul wants to fight him. Jake Paul, that has a level of possibilities, not 0. Yeah, it's not 0, it's just not top of mind right now, right?

Sam Parr

So you need to take off your sports jacket. You need to have a proper... I want the non-politician to answer that. You managers are so good at saying the best of everything.

Audie Attar

This is funny. It's like I wonder if I just wore freaking streetwear and dyed my hair, bleached my hair like I used to when I was a young punk rock kid. You know, if everybody would really just hear what I'm saying to Steve. It's not bullshit; I'm just telling you the truth. If he's going to fight Michael Chandler next, right? It's not... and we're not thinking about that, you know what I mean? But ultimately, of course, we know he wants to fight. Of course, we know it's there. And of course, I think if everybody keeps doing their thing, it's going to be a market for it, right? So, well, let's talk about the biggest...

Shaan Puri

One of these freak show fights right now is **Elon versus Zuck**, and it was one of those things that, like, in our world it's like that's never happened in the kind of business and tech world. And then Danny comes out and kinda certifies it. He's like, "No, they want it to happen. We're talking to them. We might make it happen." Which was... yeah.

Sam Parr

but he always does that

Shaan Puri

Exactly, it's Dana White, so you never know. But you know, it was interesting that he got a little bit more heat from that. What's your take on that? And again, the same question.

Audie Attar

Probably he does that, but I don't know if Dana would have gone out on a limb if he hadn't really talked to both, right? I mean, did he?

Sam Parr

well I'm sure he talked to both but

Audie Attar

I don't think that he would've done that, you know. And even Zuck [Mark Zuckerberg] training with... a bunch of different fighters: Izzy [Israel Adesanya] and Volk [Alexander Volkanovski] and Jon Jones. And then Elon [Musk] bringing in GSP [Georges St-Pierre] and... do [unfinished thought].

Shaan Puri

you believe it'll happen and if so

Sam Parr

who do that

Audie Attar

I believe Zuck would be down. Yeah, catch weight, whatever, it doesn't matter. Yes, I agree. I think Zuck is down. Zuck is truly, you know, training. Regardless of this fight or not, he's in there.

Shaan Puri

Does that mean you think Elon might not be down? Because that's our theory here on this podcast: that Elon wants to talk about it.

Audie Attar

Look, from the outside looking in and all the information that I have—which is probably less than what you have being in the tech world—you guys have some freaking secret Telegram groups and... "Who told you about that?"

Sam Parr

Dude, for knowing you or like knowing what I think of you, you're probably going to be managing them. No, sure, I mean I'm like...

Audie Attar

Hey, I'll... I'll... I'll... Yeah, I'm definitely gonna pursue them, you know? But so long as we get some rights, not just transactional. We gotta build something together, you know? But no, I... I... I think it's up to Elon. I truly think it's up to Elon, you know? And I don't know, do you think what he said...?

Shaan Puri

well dana came out and said if it happened

Audie Attar

They probably looked at the numbers though for both X and Threads. They're like, "This is great." Yeah, but Zuck's more serious like, "No, don't talk about it." I saw those text exchanges and all that kind of stuff that were leaked, and like I said, Zuck's... Zuck's about it. He's not bullshit, you know? Dana has said if...

Shaan Puri

It happens. It would be the biggest fight ever. He thinks it would surpass Floyd Mayweather vs. Manny Pacquiao. It would surpass Floyd Mayweather vs. Conor McGregor. He believes it would be that significant because it's just like, you know, the freak of all freak shows in that sense. It crosses over into so many different fan bases or domains. You get all the combat sports people, but you'd also get the business people to watch.

Audie Attar

I think so I think so and I think

Sam Parr

it'd also be the saddest fight ever

Shaan Puri

yeah it'd also be really lame to watch

Audie Attar

It was actually... it was actually kinda messed up the way Elau was all about it. Then, all of a sudden, it's not going to be the UFC; it's going to be Jared. Like, wait a second! You can't play along all this time and then suddenly pull the rug, you know what I mean? But...

Sam Parr

Did you see the video of him curling a 40-pound weight? He had like a 20-pound or 40-pound weight at his office, and he did a live Twitter video where he was like, "I'm curling to prepare." It's like, no dude, if you think doing curls at your desk is how you prepare, this is not gonna be good.

Audie Attar

Sport buddy, sport man. You know, oh, I didn't see that. That's funny! That's hilarious.

Sam Parr

Dude, I want to ask you a question about some other slick guys. So basically, a lot of people who don't watch UFC, they don't know that Dana is the front guy. You know, he's doing a lot of the match setting, and he does all the talking. He seems like a wonderful businessman. But the Fertitta brothers interest me most because they were... I think Dana only owned like 4 or 6% of it when it sold, but the Fertitta brothers owned most of it, besides some outside money, because they were already wealthy. They seem like those guys who don't do a lot of interviews and are a little bit behind the scenes. They seem like sharks. Have you learned anything interesting from the two brothers and Dana about business?

Audie Attar

Well, so obviously, look, they sold their business now, right? Endeavor ended.

Sam Parr

up yeah

Audie Attar

You know, William Morris at the time, they bought it. But I had the pleasure of being able to deal across from Lorenzo Fertitta, particularly on a couple of clients, particularly Conor. Obviously, at that level, they are very savvy businessmen, very composed. It's not... the dynamic when I'm on the opposite side is naturally adversarial a lot of the time, right? At the end of the day, I'm advocating for my clients, so I'm not their best friend. It's not like they're going to invite me over for Christmas. But we did have a respectful relationship, and I really enjoyed dealing with someone who has not only been successful in our sport and a pioneer in it, but was also a super successful businessman in the casino business and other businesses as well. You learn from the interactions, the dealings, and the negotiations that you're doing. For example, when Mayweather and McGregor happened, we basically got what we were striving for from a negotiation. Conor and I really had that moment when we walked out of Lorenzo's office, and we were like, "F***ing did it!" You know, it was like a moment, right? So...

Shaan Puri

you guys like keep a straight face till you get to the parking lot

Sam Parr

yeah you get like giddy and start hugging a shit

Audie Attar

Well, in the meeting in the office, you have the smirk, you know? You don't give it away. You're like, "Right," and then... Yeah, when you get in the car, you're like, "Yeah!" You celebrate, you know? But yeah, man, I think it's the human shit. I think that's what people don't realize. I mean, it's like it's the same in all sectors, all sports. Even the most composed person that doesn't do any interviews, I'm sure they've had those moments in their own journeys as well, right?

Sam Parr

I read on Front Office Sports, I think it's called. It's like a sports publication. The final exit for Proper 12 was **$600,000,000**, and I think that was only 4 years after you started it. Is **$600,000,000** in the ballpark?

Audie Attar

Three years, and I can tell you, listen, if it's probably printed, then you gotta go with that. I can't necessarily comment on the specific numbers, but we're still involved too. It's not, you know, at the end of the day, we're still part of the team. We're still pushing to grow the brand. We just came out with a new flavor, our Irish Apple flavor, which is amazing. You know, dangerously amazing too, because it drinks and goes down so easy. But yeah, man, I'm super proud of that plan.

Sam Parr

Was that like a new level for you, wealth-wise? And what I mean is, were you able to make money a little bit along the way?

Audie Attar

You know, I think that was a whole other level. That was a whole other level where you're able to achieve your ultimate goals. Ultimately, too, you're proving your concept. You know what I mean? Like, ultimately, we're not having to go sell the platform. We're creating liquidity events by creating opportunities left and right. Not just for clients, now we're creating ventures that are accretive to the platform. We have a smart basketball technology called Hoop. We have some other ventures in the pipeline that are very much focused on advocacy for the entire sport. We're putting our own capital into these things to create opportunities for everybody else. And there are other things that we're creating specifically for our clients. So, in lieu of having the opportunity to invest, or if an athlete may not have the brand equity to start their own venture, how can we bring them along for the ride with us for the next proper 12 months, if you will?

Shaan Puri

I always like to ask people this because I remember, you know, when you start out in business, typically you have kind of nothing to your name.

Audie Attar

and you've got this literally nothing credit card debt right exactly nothing

Shaan Puri

so you start at 0 or usually you go below 0 you dip below 0 for a?

Audie Attar

Of time below zero... well, then the funny thing is, and this is what people don't appreciate: my wife, now she was my girlfriend, and she had a job. We were literally maxed out on credit cards. For the first seven years of Paradigm, I didn't take a paycheck. I was paying team members and staff before I was paying myself. I think people lose sight of that, you know? It's like, when you have huge success, you still try to do right and take care of people, but even that's sometimes... no good deed goes unpunished, right? Ultimately, it's a war of attrition. You have to be able to withstand all of it and really believe in what you're doing. You know, eat shit sandwiches daily on your way there.

Sam Parr

you know

Shaan Puri

What I'm getting at is that you eat these "shit sandwiches" for, in your case, seven years. In my case, I remember sort of eight or nine years straight of just failure. But in your case, at least you were building it up. Then you finally have the moment where it's kind of validated. You realize a payday comes in, you get a windfall along the way, and financially, sure, that's exciting. Things change at a logical level, but before it hits the logical level, there's kind of the emotional level. What does that feel like? What thoughts go through your head at that time? We had a guy come on the podcast, and he's like, "Dude, I used to just every day for the next week, I just drove to the bank. I would just go in an ATM, put my card in, and say 'print receipt' because I just wanted to see it." He's like, "I didn't even have anything I wanted to spend it on. I was just amazed to look at that because I knew the seventh year or whatever, the years that go into not being there, not having that." We had other people who were like, "You know, this is an oddly numb feeling. I didn't feel anything." And other people were like, "You know, I had a conversation with myself. I said, 'Alright, now I'm here. Here's this pivotal conversation I had with myself.'" So I always like to ask people about that moment because I think there's usually something interesting that happens. It's not just like another day.

Audie Attar

It's surreal. It's surreal to me because, you know, on one end, it happened during COVID, so it was a real... it was a weird time for all of us, right? You get there, and honestly, it's like you're pinching yourself. It's a new age; you don't have to necessarily go to the bank to print the receipt. Anyway, you can just look at the app. I mean, I surely did that a few times, just to be like, "What?" But also, you have to make decisions. We hired more people, we gave people raises, and we gave people bonuses that had nothing to do with that part of the business. We invested back in the business. The first thing I bought was my mom a plant, my house, and a car. I was trying to really stay grounded, you know what I mean? More importantly, I was trying to do right by those that are important to you, both family and your team. Ultimately, you still want to enjoy the moment. Because we were all kind of locked in at home, every night for my wife and I was just surreal. Then you start to think about, "Okay, well, do you tell your kids? Do you not? How do you raise them the right way? How do you make sure you keep them hungry and humble?" A lot of things change, right? You get there, and you start to realize you have to start planning, thinking, and acting differently. But then also, other unintended issues start to come up. You know, I forgot: "More money, more problems." This is true, you know, at the end of the day.

Sam Parr

what problems just

Audie Attar

a a lot of different things I think unappreciate

Sam Parr

people want

Audie Attar

Unappreciative people think that they deserve... Unappreciative people, no matter what you give them, they just unfortunately have a self-inflated view. You know, I think there's a whole list of issues that come up with it. That's the reality, but it is what it is. You gotta take the good, the bad, the ugly, and just keep rolling. Two punches and level up, and level up, and evolve. That's what it is.

Sam Parr

I thought

Shaan Puri

you were gonna say you had a red panty night I was I was waiting for it that was the you said

Audie Attar

you said it for me I did classic classic

Sam Parr

And you had two bites of the apple, right? If I remember correctly, I think you guys... did you sell a portion of the business early on? I think you sold half of it, and then... yeah, another... I don't know if it was the half or the rest, or another big chunk.

Audie Attar

yeah right yep was it a hard decision

Shaan Puri

to sell or did you have 600,000,000 reasons

Audie Attar

I mean it it was I mean look

Sam Parr

any first of all

Audie Attar

it was an amazing of all it was an amazing at the time they always ask for the fact that we're like now we still have we we're still

Sam Parr

part of the business so we can still keep making a lot of

Audie Attar

Money in the next decade or longer... you know, at the end of the day, it's always difficult to think about "woulda, shoulda, coulda," right? But you gotta be able to count the fortunes of it all and be grounded in that positive reality. It's not a negative thing. You know, it's very easy to always "Monday morning quarterback" something, but... oh, we shouldn't have sold because of this, this, and that.

Sam Parr

You have those regrets, which I think is normal, by the way. I think most people who... not but maybe most... I think who they sell... You know, if you sell, you tend to sell early, right? I mean, that tends to happen.

Audie Attar

I think the way we structured the deal allows us to not only make a ton of money but to continue making a ton of money. And, you know, ultimately, I’ve had those thoughts. Sure, you always think about it. For me, it’s more about execution, right? Not only do we execute, but then how are the deal terms? How’s this? How’s that? You know, I’m kind of constantly watching the film to make sure that I’m learning and growing as an entrepreneur. I’m not resting on my laurels either; I’m not done, right? So, I’m still playing the game. While you play the game, you’ve got to be able to not only celebrate the victories but also watch the tape back and see where you could have gotten better. That’s the only way you’re going to be the best at what you do.

Sam Parr

So, I have a partner, a business partner, who was already successful before. His second company was about to get a $200,000,000 check for the sale. It was one of those clickbaity websites on Facebook that showed top 10 lists. Then, Facebook changed the algorithm, and the sale dropped from $200,000,000 to like $30,000,000. It was just a massive issue because of platform risk. There's a lot of fear around platform risk. Do you view Conor as like your platform risk? He gets into trouble sometimes and gets accused of a lot of stuff. Sometimes he actually did do it, and sometimes he didn't. Do you get nervous about platform risk with Conor? Like, "Shit, if he does something really bad, I'm fucked."

Audie Attar

Yeah, well, he's been accused of a lot of things, and he's never been convicted. So, that's the facts, right? But obviously, there's always risk in everything. When you look at someone like Conor, he is kind of an enigma. There are certainly going to be those who may be averse and not want to get involved. But at the end of the day, whoever gets involved with us understands the McGregor brand and the inherent risks that potentially come with that. Ultimately, they also look at the track record, and that is always going to win the day. You could make all these claims and accusations, but ultimately, the facts are the facts, the results are the results, and the data is the data. So, when you look at all those things, the sum of all parts is why we have a healthy relationship with all of our business partners. We continue to incubate and launch other exciting businesses around the Conor brand. For me, he’s the biggest client. He’s also in the top 1% of pop culture brands in the world. So, unless I go inside the other people in that small bucket, he’s always going to have that proportionate risk value across my platform. But ultimately, we’re also much more than just one client, and we’re building something that, for me, is into the future.

Sam Parr

Tron, do you see what happened with Barstool? So basically, Barstool Sports sold to a betting company, like Penn... yeah. I don't remember the final sale, but it was $600,000,000+. Dave made a killing!

Audie Attar

think he got in stock I think right a lot of stock

Sam Parr

Yeah, he got a lot of stock. I think he was able to sell some. I know that on Wall Street, you could see that he did sell a little bit. Basically, after three years, Pam was like, "Shit, you guys are insane! It's really hard for us to do this because we're regulated as a casino. It's really hard to let you do what you want to do without hurting us." ESPN wants to do this big deal with us, but they won't do it if we're with Barstool. You know what, Dave? Here, look, just have the company back. If you ever sell it again, we get half of the profit. Cool? In exchange, we're going to do this ESPN deal, which is going to boost our stock. We're good. It was like the greatest coup of all time, with Dave selling it and then them just saying, "Here, actually, we don't want this." You know, maybe we have a world where the buyer of Proper 12 is like, "Hey, this was cool and all, but you know what? You can just have it. It's yours now."

Audie Attar

Man, I think that was brilliant. It was a great move for him, and I think he still has Penn stock too. So then the stock goes up and he wins again. Good for him. Yeah, that's an interesting sector we're getting ready to enter into as well. So that's... I'm interested to see what they do with it now. [With] Barstool's, and see what they end up... who they end up partnering with to try to get that off the ground.

Shaan Puri

You probably, I'm guessing, kind of studied other people who had talent like this. Like, I don't know if you're in a group chat with John Shahidi or some of these guys that are managing, you know, the sort of big stars. Those same top 1% kind of people who can move the needle.

Audie Attar

john's a john's a john's a friend I don't know scooter but john's a friend

Sam Parr

who's john what's his last name

Shaan Puri

the guy who manages the elk boys now

Sam Parr

oh yeah yeah and stuff

Audie Attar

yeah

Shaan Puri

so he's

Audie Attar

And he has... probably he has like a dozen or so of some of the top podcasts and [media] personalities, you know? He's certainly an entrepreneur I respect.

Shaan Puri

And he... so you kind of studied them a little bit. If somebody was studying you and they see what you're doing with Conor and how you built... I'm just gonna name them off: - You did a whiskey brand, Proper No. Twelve - You have Netflix documentaries and entertainment ventures - You have "Roadhouse," which is the new movie coming out - You have August McGregor, the suit line - You have TIDL, which is like the recovery spray - You have the FAST app, which is a fitness app - And I think like gyms coming or whatever... something like that It's like a fitness brand that obviously fits [with your other ventures].

Audie Attar

And we actually have an event-based competition coming, called **3KO**. So that's going to be, you know, think of Spartan Race meets CrossFit Games.

Shaan Puri

Very cool! So, you have that... I think it's like a mobile game that he's in. You do kind of the celebrity fight with Mayweather. There are just all these different things you've done around that person, that brand. I'm sure some of them worked amazingly, and some of them probably were too much work for what they were worth. You just learn as you go, right? I doubt you were the one entrepreneur who just magically had everything right from day one. No way, right? So, if somebody was studying you or if someone was with the next McGregor or another star creator, what would be your kind of advice to that person? How would you advise them based on your learnings of the last 10 years of trying to figure this out?

Audie Attar

Yeah, I mean, first and foremost, I'm still learning, right? I'm still learning, I'm still growing. What I would say is, you know, you have to be ready to not only dream but act on those dreams. You need to come prepared from a research and preparation perspective. Build out a plan and be fluid because it's not always going to go to plan. But if you're prepared and you do have a plan, you're likely to execute, even if you have to deviate a little bit. You have to stay fluid with what reality hits you with. You also have to have thick skin, man. At the end of the day, it's a war of attrition. You're going to eat shit sandwiches daily for a long time, so you gotta be able to withstand that with a smile. More importantly, you need to have the ability to communicate with that client because you both have to stay in sync in terms of what you're building. I would say, one of the things I wish I would have done is build a team around you that's more experienced than you. Ultimately, I think that's what's going to allow you to accelerate your plan, as opposed to bringing people in and then having to deal with other issues, like those people turning on you for whatever reason.

Sam Parr

how big's the paradigm team

Audie Attar

It's still boutique, so we're about 15 on the whole company level. But then every brand, or company if you will, has its own respective team. What I would also say is, don't stop innovating. Don't stop trying to create new opportunities that have to align organically with your client. But you've got to make sure you're able to clearly define that.

Shaan Puri

What’s your criteria? So, like, you’ve gone into these 10 different categories. How do you pick which category to go into? What is it? Just... well, it...

Audie Attar

Had, well, first of all, it's a line organically, right? They have to have a genuine interest because you can't sell something that's fake. I mean, everybody thought—and it's another thing—everybody thought Proper 12 was going to be a gimmick until they tried it. If you don't drink, you don't drink, but if you try it, you're like, "Oh my God, this is great!" We made sure we created a substantive brand. It wasn't going to be just something that we put a space on and tried to sell, and that's important. I know that’s important to him as well, and that's why he believes in the ventures that he's involved with. He's very passionate, but they're of substance as well; they're quality. So, you have to understand the market. You have to understand the players in the market. You have to understand how you fit in or how you can disrupt the market and grab market share. You have to put a plan together that allows you to have a higher probability of success with the black belts that are going to help you operate the business. And then, having all the other components, making sure that you can actually build a product or service of substance.

Shaan Puri

By the way, did you ever consider just putting his name on it? Because, like, you have names like Jamieson, Johnny Walker, or Jack Daniels. McGregor's name is so famous; it's an interesting brand decision.

Audie Attar

It's actually taken. We did think about that for you, but actually there's the McGregor clan. I think it's a Scotch, if I'm not mistaken. So that was certainly considered. We also considered "Notorious Irish Whiskey" at one point. And, you know, again, even in the earlier days, there were a couple of other names that were floating around.

Sam Parr

but no proper twelve's a good name proper twelve's good

Audie Attar

it's a great name again we'll be

Sam Parr

what's it mean like the is it like the 12 districts of dublin

Audie Attar

From Dublin 12. So each, let's call it... borough or city within Dublin is a number, and where he's from is Dublin 12. And "proper," I mean, they would say "that was a proper night out," you know? Like, "Oh, it was a proper good time." And so it was, you know, Proper No. Twelve. That just made sense for the brand. Again, after pivoting several groups and finding the right partners, we came up with the brand together.

Sam Parr

Sean and I are big fans of words. You know, we'll hear someone say something and we're like, "Oh man, the language they use was beautiful. That was really good language," whether it's writing or just someone talking. The cool thing about Connor is he's got a beautiful vocabulary, beautiful timing, and beautiful phrasing. He uses wonderful words. I remember when he was fighting José Aldo, he talked about how, "If this was another time, I would storm your pavilion." Then he talked about what he would do to them. He has these really funny, catchy phrases, like the whole "red panty night" thing. I guess Trump kind of did this too, where he just had really catchy stuff. Are you guys ever just shooting the shit and you're like, "Oh, that's a line! We're going to have to use that"? Like, he's...

Audie Attar

Very natural, right? Go back to the acumen. I mean, that is stuff that it's not rehearsed. It's very much stuff that he just comes up with. But we'd be there and he'd say some stuff like that was hilarious. That's another... that's another McGregor-ism, you know what I mean?

Sam Parr

like you know put that

Audie Attar

in the bank use that

Shaan Puri

one of those I have 2 fan service questions that are

Audie Attar

around that

Shaan Puri

number 1 yeah well during the may mayweather press tour which was just like amazing that was

Audie Attar

that was so much fun but it

Shaan Puri

It looked like... because, you know, all UFC press tours are the same. You go, you sit, and they ask you questions, and then you react. Whereas that one was like, "Stand up and give a speech." It almost looked like Conor was ambushed, like, "Oh, I just gotta give a 20-minute improvised speech in front of millions of people right now." And then he kind of did it. Was that an ambush? I always wondered if he's...

Audie Attar

Like, I had no idea what the format was going to be like. And Sam, yes, it was exhausting at the time, but just thinking back to it, every time it kind of comes up, whether it's the annual anniversary or whatever it may be, it was such a great experience, man. It was like a once-in-a-lifetime thing because, you know, Sean, there was no format. So, to your point, I don't know if you felt ambushed, but certainly we were like, "Oh, how is it for this one? How is it for that one?" But the energy of all of them was out of this world. I think that they fed off that energy, which gave them the ability to deliver these legendary lines and respond back and forth.

Shaan Puri

I remember watching it, and it was clear that he was like, "Wait, there's no fucking questions? I just have to go? Okay, I'm a comedian now." Alright, do you bet? He said this line: "You know, they've tried everything. They didn't tell us the format. My microphone doesn't work. They're trying to put me in an uncomfortable situation, but they don't know I thrive in uncomfortable situations." I almost feel like he was giving himself a pep talk during the speech. I really love that line; that was great. But I also have another kind of fan service question on almost the other side of the coin. As you could tell, Sam and I are both fans of you, of the UFC, and of Conor. We really took a lot of inspiration from some of the... you know, it's just a badass thing to go out there and fight and put yourself on the line like that every single time. There's something to be admired about that, for sure. I think Conor came in with a very... at the beginning, how could you hate the guy? He was bold. He came from nowhere. He was this guy who was like an apprentice plumber and then was suddenly beating everybody exactly the way he said he would. His fighting style was electric; there was nothing to dislike about the guy, I thought, on the come-up. I'm sure some people did, but the majority of fans, I think, were just like, "This guy's incredible." Then there's sort of almost like a heel turn now, where I know a lot of people I watch fights with feel like he's kind of jumped the shark. Like, "Oh, you know, now he's super jacked in this huge way. He's more of a boxer. He hasn't fought in a long time. He talks... maybe he's crossing the line too much or he's getting in trouble." There are all these things that, honestly, I know he's your client and he's your friend, and you're probably never going to say a bad word about him. But I think there are some fair criticisms that it's understandable why somebody who was a superfan might now feel like, "You know, I can't really get behind everything that I'm seeing here." Do you think about that at all? I guess, what's your reaction to that? I don't really know how to phrase the question, but I feel like you're one of the few people on earth who would have an opinion about this that I would really care to hear.

Audie Attar

I mean look it it's just like you are engaged with these conversations naturally I'm gonna hear everything right from people around me and you know whether it's my friends whether it's family and ultimately what I'll say is this like you know everybody's entitled to their own opinion I know who the person is and obviously I I do have an intimate relationship with something that's more than just transactional it's more than just a client and business partner someone that I I'm I'm loyal to has been loyal for me and so at the end of the day you know I know that history once it's done being written will be interpreted by everybody differently he's definitely not perfect he's definitely made mistakes but a lot of the criticism too is subjective it's based on where where you stand and what you believe in or what you wanna see etcetera but a a never been legally all those accusations have not been legally found to be true right b he was the cleanest and most tested athlete before he got out of the pool and when he returns to fighting he's gonna do it the right way and everything's gonna be legal so everybody can say what they wanna say there's nothing that was done wrong right and so he's he's constantly being vilified because ultimately the stuff that they love them for he still does they're outspoken they'll says what's on top of his mind but maybe because he has the riches now and it's not the rags anymore sometimes we try to tear some people down I don't know why I can't tell you right but ultimately I do know proof's in the pudding he has to continue to go out there and show that he could continue to evolve be the best version of himself not just athletically but as a human being as well and ultimately that's on him to do and I can't do that for him you can't do that for him but criticism is gonna come and when you're when you're in the public eye you gotta be ready to to take it on and at the end of the day heavy is the head that wears the crown you can't just want the good and not take the bad with it so ultimately that's something that we constantly talk about something that I know he says I say to him we talk about he understands that but it doesn't make it easy it doesn't make it easy because ultimately it's like or you you know you know you talk about the the moment I don't know how many entrepreneurs you've had on this podcast but when they have that big moment they don't need to be seen by their everybody they're probably enjoying it with nobody watching them or if they go somewhere nobody really recognizes who they are right myself included so ultimately it's very different and that doesn't you know essentially absolve him of of the responsibility that he has to take upon himself in certain instances but more more importantly it makes me understand the pressure is real not only to win and succeed but on another level to live your life so visibly for everybody to just critique every little thing in today's world man everybody has an opinion you know you you guys before you met me you thought I was a square suit because of how I appeared visibly or visually to you without ever talking to me before right so it's like very easy and fast judgment based on whatever your belief system is how you were raised your experiences with someone that looked like me whatever it may be or your opinions of agents just because you watch andre on some collars but I I I can't change that ultimately right and so when you live in today's world like that for everybody to critique man it's gonna come with not just the good but the bad and the ugly as well and you gotta deal with it

Sam Parr

I like the fan questions, you know. This is... it's fun. We've had Ariel Helwani on here, you know, we've become friendly. We've had Ben Asprey, I think we've talked to Mike Bisping. We've talked to a bunch of folks. It's... you know, Sean and I are super fans, so it's always fun to get like the insider [perspective].

Audie Attar

how many fights have you guys been to in person

Sam Parr

I've only been to 3 or 4

Shaan Puri

you've been to I

Sam Parr

The in-person event is definitely the best sporting event experience, but in my opinion, if you're a nerd and a true fan, it's so much better to hear the commentary and to see it on TV. Just like seeing the replay of the Sean O'Malley knockout on Saturday... it was really awesome to be able to see it close-up. Do you agree?

Shaan Puri

You know what I mean with UFC? The cage and the cameraman on every post of the cage do kind of screw up the viewing experience, depending on where you're at. I'm sure if you're right next to the ring side, you may not have that issue. But we went to one event at the Vegas place—the one where Masvidal kneed Askren into, you know, the next realm. I saw it, but the guy next to me literally couldn't even see the thing. He missed the moment because it was like a split-second; it was in the first five seconds of the fight. Secondly, just because of the cage, if you go to a football game or a basketball game, it's an open field. It's very easy to see what's going on, whereas you're almost walking on the Jumbotron.

Audie Attar

Well, it's interesting. First of all, I think, look, there are pros and cons to both of your points. The energy of big fights is something else—it's electric. I mean, just the walkouts and the crowd... you feel it. And then you hear the thuds, and you know, it's... it's pretty amazing.

Sam Parr

I was at Jorge and Nate's, and it was spectacular, right? But you know, it’s just nice to be able to go home and watch.

Audie Attar

Replay again? Yeah, yeah. But then from a view perspective, unless you're in the first few rows on the floor, it's actually the mid-low riser that's the perfect view. You're looking into the octagon, but you're still fairly close, and I think that's the best view live. Nonetheless, no matter where your seats are, I think for big, **big** events, the electricity of that place is something else, you know?

Sam Parr

So, what's gonna happen? I'm following this whole circus with Dylan Danis and Logan. I've never even seen Dylan Danis train. I went and watched his two Bellator fights, but that was like years ago. What's gonna happen? I don't know... I've never even seen him spar or anything on like leading up videos. What's gonna happen on that? When's that? August? It's August 14th.

Audie Attar

Logan obviously has a leg up having fought before, right?

Sam Parr

yeah I thought that was years ago yeah

Shaan Puri

I think he's bigger

Audie Attar

No, listen, listen. I get it. You know, the fight's actually scheduled for October 14th. But, oh, October 14th! Dylan has made all the necessary adjustments to his life and his preparation. This is his boxing debut, so he has to go in there and really prove himself. Right now, I could tell you about the banter that's going back and forth. I mean, you know he's confident in his abilities, and he's definitely putting in the work. Ultimately, you don't take that position with the banter he's doing if you're not going in there with some level of confidence in yourself, right? And I'm sure it's given Logan a little bit more training for this, right? Because ultimately, it's personal now, I would imagine. Right?

Sam Parr

Not even Connor, you know, the king of trash talk, wouldn't even go that far to talk about family. I don't like that he's talking about family, but I like it in the sense of like, "I'm gonna stare at it."

Shaan Puri

You understand, so when you're a kid on the internet... I think it's funny too, you know? Yeah, yeah.

Sam Parr

I like... it's too far, but at the same time, I'm like, "But it's there." Yeah, you know what I mean? A bunch of that. Listen.

Audie Attar

I think what's interesting is that, you know, love it or hate it, the engagement for that is through the roof. It should help show the fight, and more importantly, it's about now performing. Ultimately, you could talk all you want, but now you gotta go on the phone. He's made all the adjustments to his life, personally and professionally, which I'm very proud of him for doing. That will give him a high chance of winning this. I think he's going to press and shock a lot of people. People are not giving him enough credit, and I think when he gets in there, it's his time to shine. Now he's putting his money where his mouth is because the mouth is getting it ready. He's going to make people want to watch him, love him or hate him.

Sam Parr

You're kind of implying, "Well, it doesn't matter unless he loses," and I kind of disagree. I think he's already won, whether he loses or not. From where he was starting to where he is now, you know, he's already got it. It'll be okay. Even if he gets knocked out right away, he'll probably be better off than where he was.

Audie Attar

oh this is a great opportunity for him no doubt no doubt thanks for doing

Shaan Puri

this man where should people follow you if they wanna get more

Audie Attar

Just my first and last name at: - Twitter: @audietar - Instagram: @audietar - Threads: @audietar - X [formerly Twitter]: @audietar I think one of three still remain. Alright Audie, thanks for doing this man. Alright Jess, Sean, Sam, thank you so much. Appreciate it.

Sam Parr

and that's the pod