Hasan Minhaj - Comedy, Netflix, Haters, & Money

Comedy, Critics, Authenticity, and Community - December 15, 2021 (over 3 years ago) • 01:57:51

This My First Million podcast episode features a conversation between Shaan Puri and Hasan Minhaj. They discuss Hasan's career journey in comedy, his creative process, and his approach to finances. They also explore the changing landscape of media, the impact of online discourse, and the importance of authenticity in the digital age. Shaan and Hasan delve into their personal philosophies regarding work, life, and success, sharing insights and practical advice.

Hasan's Daily Routine and Performance Preparation: Hasan details his pre-show routine, emphasizing the importance of physical exercise, meditation, prayer, and connecting with the venue staff to get out of his head and into his body. He views performing as a form of self-expression and a way to feel seen and appreciated by the audience.
The Importance of Authenticity and Accountability: Both Hasan and Shaan discuss the value of authenticity and accountability in their respective fields. They contrast their approaches with the often anonymous and less accountable nature of online interactions. Hasan highlights the importance of using one's real name and standing by one's opinions, while Shaan emphasizes self-respect and internal validation over external opinions.
Navigating the Digital World and Online Criticism: Shaan and Hasan discuss the challenges of navigating the digital world, including online criticism and the commodification of negativity. Shaan suggests focusing on understanding the motivations behind reactions rather than engaging with them directly. He also advises seeking trusted expert advice and prioritizing one's own judgment.
Financial Strategies and Goals: Hasan explores his financial goals, which include providing long-term security for his family and funding his creative projects. Shaan shares his approach to financial planning, emphasizing the importance of defining clear objectives, aligning incentives with advisors, and diversifying investments. He also discusses the concept of "living like you're already wealthy" to attract opportunities and improve performance.
Building Community and Leverage in the Entertainment Industry: Shaan and Hasan discuss the importance of community and leverage in the entertainment industry. They explore the idea of artists collectively owning and controlling distribution platforms to gain more control over their work and revenue. Shaan advises Hasan to focus on building his brand, optimizing his "funnel" for acquiring new fans, and exploring new monetization strategies.

Transcript:

Start Time	Speaker	Text
00:01	Hasan Minhaj	Netflix was like, "Where do you want to do the special? LA, Chicago, New York?" I was like, "Nah, son. Davis, California." What's a day for you like? Because you're completely free now, right?
00:28	Shaan Puri	I'm completely free. Well, you're never really free. You always... I, you know, you build a prison of your own making. Now, yeah, yeah, yeah. So, you know, I have two little kids. The day starts with morning shift dad duty. I take the mornings. I have a 2-year-old and an 8-month-old.
00:42	Hasan Minhaj	yeah
00:42	Shaan Puri	and so
00:43	Hasan Minhaj	we're like we're the same like
00:44	Shaan Puri	Three years old yesterday. I was like, "I feel you." Yeah, and we... so I do the morning shift. That's just straight dad time. Then I basically pick between... I got three kind of major projects.
00:55	Hasan Minhaj	yeah
00:56	Shaan Puri	So I got investing. Sometimes we'll be looking at deals. Then it could be content, but content is really kind of on a specific niche schedule.
01:06	Hasan Minhaj	it's like
01:07	Shaan Puri	On Monday and Wednesday, for an hour, we sit down and do the show. Then that's kind of it. I don't do too much more than that. I write sometimes, like on Twitter or emails or whatever. Also, I have a business. My wife and I started an e-commerce business.
01:18	Hasan Minhaj	oh cool
01:19	Shaan Puri	And so that scaled up. Basically, in the last year, that went from $0—just an idea—to now we do over $1,000,000 a month in revenue on that business. I was looking for something new that I could do as a side hustle. Something that wasn't going to take up all my time but could still be a valuable business that was, you know, part-time basically. And so that's what...
01:42	Hasan Minhaj	have you always been like that multiple hustles have you always been that guy
01:46	Shaan Puri	I was always that guy, but they weren't working before. So, I was really trying to do that, and I was failing at it.
01:52	Hasan Minhaj	and like since high school like you were that too
01:54	Shaan Puri	So, a lot of people have this story. A lot of entrepreneurs say, "Oh, back in the day, I had my lemonade stand." I was selling lemonade, doing newspaper routes, and I hired all these kids. I was into baseball cards. Honestly, the lights were off in my head until I was about 21. I thought, "I'm going to be pre-med." I wanted to be a team doctor for an NBA team.
02:10	Hasan Minhaj	so I was
02:10	Shaan Puri	like okay what what do I do to I wanted to be on the nba team alright genetics not working
02:14	Hasan Minhaj	yeah
02:15	Shaan Puri	team doctor that that seems like the. Of my genetics and like my interest
02:19	Hasan Minhaj	yeah
02:19	Shaan Puri	And only when I met a team doctor, I was like, "Wow, this is boring as shit." You're just like, you know, these are just joints that are in pain, and there's only so much you can do. It's like, "Wow, it's not as exciting." I need a plan B. So, I was 21 when I figured that out.
02:31	Hasan Minhaj	and I was like still an undergrad
02:33	Shaan Puri	yeah I I've just taken the mcats I was ready to go to med school
02:35	Hasan Minhaj	I was like
02:36	Shaan Puri	What's... what else? I had this random business idea with a couple of buddies that sounded kind of silly. It was so silly that it was almost not dangerous, you know how that is?
02:44	Hasan Minhaj	like yeah
02:44	Shaan Puri	Sometimes, a very serious-sounding idea is almost too intimidating to pursue. But this almost seems so goofy; it feels harmless.
02:51	Hasan Minhaj	I'm just gonna
02:51	Shaan Puri	go try I'm just gonna do this but yeah obviously I'll eventually go to med school
02:54	Hasan Minhaj	yeah obviously
02:54	Shaan Puri	I was like I'm not gonna yeah you know I just do this for a couple of months
02:58	Hasan Minhaj	And you're also at a unique point in your life. College is so unique in the sense that you're leaning on this thing where if people ask you, "Hey, what are you doing?" you can say, "I'm a student."
03:07	Shaan Puri	yeah exactly I got my cover
03:08	Hasan Minhaj	yeah I
03:08	Shaan Puri	got my cover started yeah yours are similar right because you
03:11	Hasan Minhaj	started totally I started right yeah freshman in college
03:14	Shaan Puri	Exactly. And you were... how long did you have the... like, okay, so let's take that. When did you decide, "Alright, I'm gonna do this for real. This will be the job." Was it right away, or did you kind of play with it first and then decide a year later or two years? So it's...
03:26	Hasan Minhaj	Really interesting! So for me, it's so funny. You were at the show last night, and you could tell, especially in the Bay, there's just this level of connection I have in this city. In New York and certain cities, I'm like, "I know you guys. We're all Kumon kids," right? And they're like, "Yeah."
03:39	Shaan Puri	that's okay
03:40	Hasan Minhaj	We're like, we're type A. We're good. We gotta do the... you know, I know you. I know you. I know what your house smells like. I know the way your mom talks to you, right? I know you. I've seen you at family parties, right? I know you. I really know you. There's a level of intimacy there with that material. The story is that I was part of that camp where there was a clear track, relatively speaking, in the community. I wasn't the brightest kid. Every community has like the "Stanford kid." I'm always like, I go up to people in Dallas and I'm like, "Yeah, you grew up in Dallas, right? Who's the Stanford? Which one?"
04:16	Shaan Puri	yeah which one yeah and
04:17	Hasan Minhaj	They're, man, it was Nikhil. Yeah, I'm like, "Yeah, yeah." So assuming you're not Nikhil, what was your path? Right? Everybody has one. Punah, someone's like, "Bronah, man." Bronah went to MIT. It's like, he's the star. Who's the star of your community? There's a kid, right?
04:30	Shaan Puri	I got a kid yeah yeah you're
04:31	Hasan Minhaj	not gonna name him it's fine so every kid he
04:33	Shaan Puri	won the spelling bee
04:34	Hasan Minhaj	Yeah, and you're like, "Okay, this person is the shining star of the community. What's my path?" So, I was a speech and debate kid. I go to college, and the first open mic that I did, a friend of mine—funny enough, who I knew in college—was illegally downloading a ton of stand-up comedy.
04:54	Shaan Puri	yep
04:55	Hasan Minhaj	Yep, I went to college during the Kazaa and LimeWire era. I think we're the same age; I'm 36.
05:00	Shaan Puri	yeah I'm 33 I think
05:02	Hasan Minhaj	yeah so we're like we're that same era and you said 33 I think
05:06	Shaan Puri	Yeah, I was like, I haven't been thinking about my age in a while. I think I'm 30... I think I am 33. Yeah, I mean, 33 or 34. I think I'm 33.
05:15	Hasan Minhaj	Yeah, I was 36, and I went to college during that era. He downloads a Chris Rock special, "Never Scared." I remember that special; he's in the purple suit. I remember thinking, "Oh, this is funny." Speech and debate... this is connecting the dots. Yeah, this is forensics, but funny.
05:30	Shaan Puri	right
05:30	Hasan Minhaj	Oh, I see the matrix. Then I come to find out that a lot of the comics I really loved were certain comics that thought critically like that. Greg Giraldo, rest in peace, one of the all-time greats, he was a former attorney.
05:44	Shaan Puri	right and
05:45	Hasan Minhaj	Then he became a comic, Dimitri Martin, who was really big at the time in the early 2000s, the early aughts. He also was an attorney and worked at the White House for a while before getting into comedy. He had a big run-in in comedy. Anyways, all these people that I like, like Carlin, were these critical thinkers who were kind of doing speech and debate, presenting an argument or a take. It was just a light bulb moment for me. I had this thing inside of me, and I thought, "Oh, this is one of the first things in my life where I have an alacrity and speed at which I do this that I never had at Quomon, or at the SAT, or at the MCATs, or at the LSATs." I can pick this up really fast. I don't know if you felt this, but I think a lot of, you know, Desi kids have this, or whatever kids in general. Your parents will push you into soccer, or basketball, or swimming, and you're like, "Ah, there's always that kid..."
06:36	Shaan Puri	yeah
06:37	Hasan Minhaj	From just the first drill, I pick it up fast. So much of adult life is figuring out, "What's my thing that I pick up fast?" Like that. And that was that.
06:46	Shaan Puri	My mom and I had the same moment at 21 years old when we started. We had this business idea.
06:53	Hasan Minhaj	yeah
06:53	Shaan Puri	and it was like we didn't even know what the fuck we're doing right as in nobody does from the beginning
06:57	Hasan Minhaj	yeah
06:57	Shaan Puri	And I remember thinking, "Oh man, my parents are probably not going to be cool with this." Especially with our idea to create the Chipotle for sushi. It wasn't even like a big idea, like, "Oh, bioengineering, blah blah blah," or, you know, some new microbial whatever.
07:09	Hasan Minhaj	why does it sound like you were high when you said that the way you said chipotle for sushi is like such a like
07:13	Shaan Puri	I wish I was... that would be a better excuse. Uh-huh. We just... I just tried sushi for the first time. Before that, I was eating Subway and Chipotle a lot. I was like, "Why isn't sushi served like that, the way I'm used to?"
07:24	Hasan Minhaj	yeah
07:24	Shaan Puri	it was just simple as that yeah so I I was like alright I'm gonna did you always
07:29	Hasan Minhaj	Have you always done that? This moment, this problem-solving thing... why don't they do it like this?
07:34	Shaan Puri	that was the start of it that's what I'm saying I didn't always have it yeah I started to realize because naval has that too right
07:39	Hasan Minhaj	do I've seen interviews with naval and naval's like I was always like why doesn't that pizza place do this
07:43	Shaan Puri	Yeah, I wasn't like that. I say this because I remember I used to watch those guys, like Naval. He's like a hero to me, right? He's like a mentor in many ways.
07:50	Hasan Minhaj	yeah yeah
07:51	Shaan Puri	And when I hear him, you know, you hear these people talk about how they just had it from day one or, yeah, you know, an early age. It makes you think if you don't have that "thing," which most people don't by then, it's like, "I guess I'm just not that type. I guess I'm just not cut out that way." Yeah, I guess they're different than me. So I'm always very upfront about it, which is like, "No, there were no signs of anything. I didn't know what the heck I wanted to do. I didn't know what I was good at until I did." And that just... the light bulb comes on when it came on. Yeah, and I remember going to my... I remember we started working on it, and like you said, I had this lack of... I was good at pitching. It was a pitch contest that we were working on first.
08:25	Hasan Minhaj	business plan pitch and were you a great student were you like a really
08:28	Shaan Puri	Good, not mediocre. And that's why I called my dad. I said, "You know, hey, I'm thinking about doing this thing." I was kind of expecting the Indian parent response, which is like, "No, just stay focused on med school. Remember the whole thing you just worked on for 4 years? Why I paid for this expensive college? Yeah, do that thing."
08:43	Hasan Minhaj	yeah
08:44	Shaan Puri	And he was like, "I think you should run with this." I go, "You think it's a good idea?" He goes, "No, I think it's a terrible idea. I think the food business is awful. I think restaurants are a terrible idea. I don't understand what you mean, you know? But you don't know anything about sushi, so I think it's a terrible idea in like 10 different ways."
08:58	Hasan Minhaj	yeah
08:58	Shaan Puri	He's like, "But what time did you wake up this morning?" I was like, "I don't know, like 8:30." He's like, "And what'd you do right away?" I'll say, "I start working on this." He goes, "That's why I know you should do this because the light..." Obviously, dad. Yeah, he was like, "That's dope. We've been trying to get you to like study and like..."
09:11	Hasan Minhaj	just and care about anything
09:12	Shaan Puri	care and like wake up with your own light bulb on and be able to go do that thing
09:17	Hasan Minhaj	what does your what does your dad do you know what I'm asking
09:19	Shaan Puri	He kind of had a career where he was an engineer. He worked in research at a big company, specifically a large oil company. Then, he realized that when he was in his 30s, he looked around his office and thought, "My office is the same office I've been in for 10 years."
09:32	Hasan Minhaj	yeah
09:33	Shaan Puri	I got all these patents on the wall, he said, but these are just like certificates. They give me these to pat me on the head and keep me, you know, just to keep me doing my thing. Sitting here like a scientist, doing my thing. Yeah, he's like the guy I hand the patent idea to. He gets promoted, he gets to go to London, and he gets to, like, yeah, he takes my idea and makes it sound like it's his idea.
09:50	Hasan Minhaj	yeah
09:50	Shaan Puri	He's like, "Maybe I should do the business guy thing," because it's like those guys just take my ideas and run with it. Yeah, so then he switched into the business side. That's why he kind of... you know, most parents have this where, like, the thing they regret, they kind of push their kids like, "No, do it." You know? For my dad, that was two things: it was like social...
10:05	Hasan Minhaj	yeah
10:05	Shaan Puri	He's like, "I didn't know anything about socializing till it was almost too late." So like, "Go to that party." He would drop me off at a party. Wow, you know? He would be like, "You need to go," and I'd be like, "I'm scared." I was just socially scared as a high schooler, right? I didn't know what the heck was going on.
10:22	Hasan Minhaj	they show a girlfriend and stuff
10:23	Shaan Puri	Yeah, they were cool about it. They were like, "Whatever, that's awesome." So, they were pushing me to fill the gaps that they didn't have. One of those gaps was about who my mom was. "Are you the oldest sibling?"
10:32	Hasan Minhaj	I'm the oldest yeah
10:33	Shaan Puri	so the oldest paves the way so my sister had already done it
10:36	Hasan Minhaj	Yeah, I don't get to talk about Bitcoin. The reason why this is important to me is that understanding someone's drive shaft is so imperative to why they are where they are.
11:05	Shaan Puri	yeah you're living under the surface
11:07	Hasan Minhaj	Yeah, like sometimes people are like, "Ah, that's stupid," but I'm like, "No." Because all of your... I'll just speak on my field, which is not big; it's relatively narrow. If you take 100 comics and you're all in the green room, you'll quickly see the ones that are talking shit. You'll see the ones that don't like to write. You'll see the ones that use comedy and the comedy club as a crutch, right? To give them a place to go to just socialize. Then there are the ones that love it, the ones that are sociopathic, sick, offensive—all of those things. But if you start to find out more about them, which is why, you know, sometimes you come up in a comedy scene. I came up here in San Francisco in the Bay, and you quickly find out, "Oh, this person's running from something."
11:50	Shaan Puri	right
11:50	Hasan Minhaj	this person do you know what I mean
11:51	Shaan Puri	and and so and
11:52	Hasan Minhaj	That informs the next 15 dominoes of their career and their life.
11:57	Shaan Puri	And what do... When you did that, because comedy, I think, is kind of known for that. Like, yeah, comedy is this torturous field where it's like, you know, nobody makes it. Then even if you do make it, it's like... yeah, just continue. You have to come up with new material, reinvent it every year, yes, every 2 years.
12:12	Hasan Minhaj	yes
12:13	Shaan Puri	it's just this brutal field
12:14	Hasan Minhaj	yeah
12:14	Shaan Puri	And then, even the better you are at it, you're a truth teller. Yes, right? Yes. Often, these truths are kind of ugly or they're kind of painful. They're about yourself, or about society, or about whatever.
12:23	Hasan Minhaj	yeah
12:24	Shaan Puri	so there's this like darkness that's with like a lot of great comedians
12:26	Hasan Minhaj	sure
12:27	Shaan Puri	it lives with them
12:28	Hasan Minhaj	yeah
12:28	Shaan Puri	you seem like a well adjusted you know good looking guy happy person
12:32	Hasan Minhaj	you saw the show last night did it did I come off as unhinged or
12:35	Shaan Puri	No, you came off... you came off like... I'll tell you exactly how you came off to me. I don't mean this to sound like a backhanded compliment, but you seem to me like somebody who isn't naturally the funniest guy. Some comedians, you just see it and you're like, "Dude, they could just be doing this at their dinner table."
12:55	Hasan Minhaj	yeah
12:56	Shaan Puri	And they're just probably slang, whatever room they're in. They just happen to be in a big auditorium. Yeah, yeah, yours I could tell. My sister even said that. She goes, "He works on his craft like you." I could see that in the stories you were telling, the beats, the punchlines. It just felt like everything was put together. It was thought through—the lighting, the sound, the position, your body language on the stage. It seemed like you had worked this set, not like this guy is just funny. He had two drinks and he gets up here and starts spitballing.
13:25	Hasan Minhaj	yeah
13:25	Shaan Puri	which is like you know the vibe that some comedians give off yeah
13:28	Hasan Minhaj	totally
13:28	Shaan Puri	And so, to me, that was what I got. It's like... it's ironic. It's like this is kind of like the Indian kid who does hard work and practice and is really good at the thing that he set his mind to.
13:39	Hasan Minhaj	yeah
13:40	Shaan Puri	that's the vibe I got is that accurate or is that like my own yeah no projection of shit
13:44	Hasan Minhaj	I think that is definitely accurate. I really do care. I love it. I love this thing.
13:51	Shaan Puri	okay do the thing do you agree with my first thing which is amongst a 100 comedians that are like at the
13:55	Hasan Minhaj	same spot
13:57	Shaan Puri	are you naturally are you the average above average below average where would you say
14:00	Hasan Minhaj	Yeah, so what you're talking about is just like natural... There's people that look funny, talk funny, say things in a funny way, right? So their voice sounds funny, they look funny. You're already in the top... People think about those guys, Chris Farley...
14:17	Shaan Puri	yes
14:18	Hasan Minhaj	Another comic I love is Felipe Esparza. Felipe Esparza just looks funny, right? Hannibal Buress has an amazing voice, and Chappelle has an amazing voice as well.
14:25	Shaan Puri	right do
14:26	Hasan Minhaj	know what I mean
14:26	Shaan Puri	yes exactly
14:27	Hasan Minhaj	He just sounds funny. He's brilliant, and he also has a great voice. Chris Rock has a great voice, right? He sounds funny. Yeah, I look like a news anchor, you know what I mean? I look like I should be doing the 5-day forecast or whatever. But I also have a genuine love, and I have something that I want to say. Like, there's...
14:48	Shaan Puri	a message yeah
14:48	Hasan Minhaj	I just want to say something. There’s something inside of me that I want to express. One of the things that I definitely feel is that when I put together a show, like on tour, I want to give you a show. I want it to be a show. For me, putting together and mixing stand-up comedy, storytelling, and theater—that, to me, was my elixir.
15:12	Shaan Puri	yeah
15:13	Hasan Minhaj	it was my elixir like
15:14	Shaan Puri	we were at the show I wanted the I was thinking about I was like what do I ask him I was like
15:18	Hasan Minhaj	yeah
15:18	Shaan Puri	I got a bunch of questions, but the one that I truly wanted to know, which I don't even know if there's a good answer for, is this: At the end, you went up there for an hour, and by the end, it was like, you know in tetherball when one person gets the momentum? Yeah, and it's just swinging, and the other person is flailing. They're helpless; the ball is just out of reach. But the one person knows they're like, "I'm about to..." You haven't won yet, but the momentum is so strong. From about halfway through the show to the end of the show, that's how I felt. It was tetherball; you were dominating, and the crowd was just in the palm of your hands. It was so good. At the end, you know, mic drop, crowd goes wild. What is that feeling like? Because most human beings are never going to experience that. But sitting there, I'm like, "That must feel fucking amazing," even though you've done this many times.
16:04	Hasan Minhaj	oh interesting
16:05	Shaan Puri	it must feel fucking amazing does that what does that feel like you know what
16:08	Hasan Minhaj	it feels like at the end
16:09	Shaan Puri	of the set
16:09	Hasan Minhaj	Every artist, and I think every human being, whether it's in intimate relationships, personal relationships, collaborating in business, family dynamics, or hopefully your career, wants to feel seen. There's this moment in Act 2 of the show where I basically go, "Man, I want to give you guys all of me."
16:32	Shaan Puri	yeah
16:32	Hasan Minhaj	I wanna close the gap between who I am on instagram and who I am on imessage
16:36	Shaan Puri	right
16:37	Hasan Minhaj	And when I look in people's eyes, I can tell everybody that's in the Bay Area work-from-home crowd. They're like, "Fuck, I can't be me." Yeah, and there's part of me that...
16:45	Shaan Puri	and how are you laid down
16:46	Hasan Minhaj	yeah when I laid down I'm sharing all these secrets with you guys
16:48	Shaan Puri	yeah
16:49	Hasan Minhaj	And I'm like, there's this moment of "Do you see me? I want to be seen." Right? Like when I'm with Bina, when I'm with my spouse, she's like, "Hey, when we're disagreeing on something, it's like you don't see me. You actually don't see me for who I am." Right? And the most enriching thing about that last moment, when I say good night and I see people in their reaction, I feel seen.
17:13	Shaan Puri	mhmm
17:13	Hasan Minhaj	I'm like, "Oh, I think y'all get me, right?" To me, laughter in that exchange, in that live experience, is an expression of love. You know what I mean? Yeah, because I can't make you laugh. I can't force you to laugh. Much like lovemaking, it's an intimate act.
17:29	Shaan Puri	right
17:29	Hasan Minhaj	and that release of laughter is like oh you get me
17:33	Shaan Puri	right you
17:33	Hasan Minhaj	you feel me
17:34	Shaan Puri	It was the journey from the beginning of the show. So that's the end; that's the climax. Yeah, that's the "I feel loved and seen" before the show.
17:40	Hasan Minhaj	yeah
17:41	Shaan Puri	And again, we're sitting there and the openers went on. We said, "Okay, he's about to come on." My sister goes, "Oh man, like what would you feel if you were about to go on?" I said, "Well, you know..." I was just thinking in my head, I was like, "Yeah."
17:54	Hasan Minhaj	I know
17:54	Shaan Puri	he's done this many times so now he's figured out a system
17:56	Hasan Minhaj	yeah
17:56	Shaan Puri	to how to how to deal with that combination of excitement and nerves
17:59	Hasan Minhaj	gotcha
18:00	Shaan Puri	What's the feeling like for you now? And what's the system you've developed to get on stage and have that switch flipped? Because when you came on, within 2 seconds, it's like this guy's in a state of mind. He's in a state, as we say, of like he's here to perform. He knows what he's here to do.
18:16	Hasan Minhaj	yeah
18:17	Shaan Puri	there's no like tiptoeing into it
18:19	Hasan Minhaj	yeah
18:19	Shaan Puri	So, I was wondering, what do you do in the 5 to 10 minutes before, or an hour before? I don't know, what's your kind of warm-up routine?
18:25	Hasan Minhaj	yeah
18:26	Shaan Puri	yeah I
18:27	Hasan Minhaj	mean you're ready you the listeners wanna know this
18:30	Shaan Puri	I'm sure I don't know really
18:31	Hasan Minhaj	I this is your personal curiosity
18:33	Shaan Puri	I want to know it, and my trainer has this great phrase. He goes, "Who are my customers? The people that love what I do." I could see he's like, people always ask, "Oh, who are your customers?" It's some demographic, right? Some marketing intellectual answer. He's like, "Yeah, the easiest way in the world is the people who love what you do." So just do what you do.
18:53	Hasan Minhaj	yeah and
18:54	Shaan Puri	you will naturally attract the people who love that yeah you repel the people who aren't interested
18:57	Hasan Minhaj	yeah
18:58	Shaan Puri	And you will never have to guess what the heck people want because you just do what you want. So that's the approach I take to the pod.
19:03	Hasan Minhaj	Yeah, no, I love it, man. I love talking shop like this. For me, it's actually the three hours before.
19:10	Shaan Puri	mhmm
19:11	Hasan Minhaj	So, what I try to do before any show is make sure that I exercise in some capacity. I don't know if you feel this way, maybe it's within our community. It's so funny to go back to what you're talking about, where you're like, "Oh, I seem like a guy who works really hard." This is funny. I was doing Marc Maron's podcast, and Maron said the same thing about me. He's like, "Yeah, you seem really put together."
19:34	Shaan Puri	and he's
19:34	Hasan Minhaj	Like, why aren't you unraveling like the way other comics are? Right? And I'm like, yeah, I’m just philosophically not from that camp. I'm not from the tortured artist camp. I'm more from the place of like, I'm creating from a place of passion and love. Right? And actually, real talk is about emptying the tank. I just want to put it all out on the court, right? You know, and this court happens to be the stage. I want to do my best. I want to be like, I put everything into picking out this outfit. I put everything into picking out these jokes, these tags, the stage design, the lighting design. Like, this is it. And I want to know when I go to sleep here at night, when I put my head down on the pillow, I did everything I could.
20:13	Shaan Puri	could right
20:14	Hasan Minhaj	Living a life without regret... only you can answer that. Is that the best? Right? Everybody's talking about chasing happiness. To me, it's about chasing satisfaction—like that self-satisfaction. And you know what it is, right? You know what it is.
20:25	Shaan Puri	right and you know when you sold out
20:27	Hasan Minhaj	you know what
20:27	Shaan Puri	It is... you got a good result, but you kind of didn't do it the right way. Yeah, that sticks with you. Some people just let that stick with them. Other people say, "Alright, even if I won, I'm not gonna win on those terms again."
20:39	Hasan Minhaj	yeah
20:39	Shaan Puri	and if and if I lost I can lose on these terms and be good at night
20:42	Hasan Minhaj	Yep, and I'm sure there are listeners to the podcast who spend their time retweeting the right things, quote tweeting, and dunking on VC people. They say the right things and regurgitate the right opinions, but they know when they put their head down at night, "Hey, you were supposed to train; you jerked off instead." You were supposed to do this, but you didn't. Only you can answer that, right? So you can signal all you want. For me, what that stage represents is like, "No, I'm putting myself in a high level of accountability in front of 34,100 people." I'm putting it all out here. Even if you don't think I'm good, if you think I'm corny, if you think I'm whatever, hey, it is what it is. But I stood here.
21:19	Shaan Puri	did it I
21:19	Hasan Minhaj	did me and on my terms and I did
21:21	Shaan Puri	my best so you're saying so you're saying
21:22	Hasan Minhaj	Three hours before... what I do is I like to do some form of exercise. I try to get out of my head.
21:28	Shaan Puri	like a workout workout or you're just trying to break a sweat what do you what's
21:32	Hasan Minhaj	The... yeah, trying to do on tour, it's just about body maintenance. Yeah, so I'll do running, I'll do some pull-ups, some core stuff—just stuff to get my body going, right? And I start breaking a sweat. What I love about like right around a minute 30 to 45 is I'll get out of my head and into my body. So much of life right now...
21:53	Shaan Puri	getting out of your head
21:54	Hasan Minhaj	Is getting out of your head. It's funny, I called you randomly, and I appreciate you picking up the phone the other day. We had a long conversation; we can get into that later. But so much of what you do and what you put out in the world, I call it like "Tech Twitter talk." It's all in your head—intellectual. It's all just heady, anxiety-inducing stuff, right? Oh, Ethereum's up. Oh, this is Solana's this. It's like it's all head shit.
22:19	Shaan Puri	right
22:20	Hasan Minhaj	It's not a body feeling thing, right? Like grounding yourself, two feet on the ground, "I'm here in this moment. What do I do?" So much of performance, and to be great at it—the best, like Chappelle and the best performers—they're not in their head; they're in their body. They're really there. When somebody screams, when somebody says something, when somebody heckles, they're in their body. When you watch Steph Curry play, when I watch Devin Booker play, these guys are so in their body. Luka is the best at this; he's in his body. He's in the flow.
22:51	Shaan Puri	right and so because luca's like a kid and kids do this well yeah kids do this pretty naturally
22:55	Hasan Minhaj	I love that
22:56	Shaan Puri	the older you get the more heady you get which is you gotta
22:59	Hasan Minhaj	Yeah, you gotta fight that, right? And so, that's a great way to get out of my head and get into my body. Then I'll probably eat something. Yep, I take a shower and then I put on the outfit. For me, it's like being on stage.
23:12	Shaan Puri	uniform
23:12	Hasan Minhaj	And putting on that, it feels like a uniform. Yep. For me, I want it to feel like a show. From the watch to the jacket to the pants, there's a level of confidence that you have when you move into a room. You're like, "Hey, from my heels all the way up to my head, I'm wearing my armor." Right? I'm coming correct.
23:32	Shaan Puri	right
23:33	Hasan Minhaj	And you just... you carry yourself with a little bop. You're like, "No, I feel better about myself. My stuff isn't slouching; there are no stains on my clothes." You know what I mean? The moment I saw you today, you walked in wearing your tech pants. I could tell you washed them a few times, but there are some stains on the backside. You know what I'm saying? But that feeling of like, "No man, when I'm coming in here, I'm gonna be fresher than Sean."
23:51	Shaan Puri	yeah
23:51	Hasan Minhaj	I'm gonna I'm gonna I'm just gonna be fresh
23:53	Shaan Puri	yeah
23:54	Hasan Minhaj	That already gives me a feeling of confidence. I know what I'm doing, you know? And by the way, the opener Marcela... like, Marcela was just dressed to the nines. Yes! You know, it's a feeling. Then I get to the show, I finish eating, I'll meditate. So meditation for 10 to 15 minutes will allow me to just, again, get out of my head and drop into my body. And something simple, just Headspace [meditation app].
24:17	Shaan Puri	right
24:18	Hasan Minhaj	Like I'm not getting too crazy about it. What I love about Headspace specifically is that so much of it is just basic breathing and establishing a level of intention. I'll meditate, then I'll pray. For me, prayer is really important because it's got to be about something bigger than just myself and my corporal being. I'm like, "What am I doing this for?" Just in establishing an intention, for me, the intention is love. Let me give joy to people.
24:44	Shaan Puri	right
24:45	Hasan Minhaj	And I want the seed of everything that I'm doing to come from that, not be like petty energy, angry energy, or "I'm gonna prove you wrong" energy. I'm in the laughter business, right? I'm here to make you feel joy, that warm feeling. So, establishing an intention there, I get to the venue about an hour before. I'll have a double shot of espresso, and I'll let my bowels do what they do. You always get those jitters; like, you gotta pee, you gotta do what you gotta do. Then, about 30 to 45 minutes before, I like to be loose with the staff. I let them know, "Hey, what's up? How are you?" Door guy, security guy, openers...
25:29	Shaan Puri	right you know
25:30	Hasan Minhaj	what I mean another way to get out of
25:31	Shaan Puri	your head by the way yeah just to be be with others be there talk to others serving others in a way
25:36	Hasan Minhaj	Yeah, and then about a half an hour before I go to my green room, I usually write it down. I'll write down, it'll just be on hotel notepad paper, "Hey, what are a couple of new tags that I'm working on tonight?" Right? Just move the ball forward a little bit, remind myself, "Yo, I'm gonna do this." For example, last night, one of the things I talked about in Act 1 of the show is fertility. A new joke that I did was, "You know what it's like being infertile as a man? I felt like Woody in Toy Story when his arm got ripped off."
26:09	Shaan Puri	right
26:10	Hasan Minhaj	all that was a that was just one line and I was like hey make sure you do the woody toy story line
26:14	Shaan Puri	right
26:15	Hasan Minhaj	You know, in every show, I try to add a few of these extra moments. You add that up over the course of like a year, two years, or three years, and you start to see what works and what doesn't work. I'll have 1,000 to 3,000 different variations of that, right? Then, I get on stage, and by the time I get on stage, there's just this feeling of like, "Now it's just pure play. Whatever happens, happens." When I'm on stage, what I try to do is remember that when I'm opening in front of my crowd, they're really hot. One of the things I try to remember is: don't yell, don't scream. Try to actually bring them to you. Mmm... like set the tempo of the game, right? Don't get too excited or too hot. You can whip them up, but then sit down at the stool, bring them to you, and make the room feel like it's coming to you. You know what I'm saying?
27:11	Shaan Puri	did you ever watch film of yourself basically yeah
27:14	Hasan Minhaj	I I watch tape all the time yeah and so so I see bad habits
27:17	Shaan Puri	it's kinda brutal
27:18	Hasan Minhaj	yeah
27:18	Shaan Puri	to watch yourself
27:19	Hasan Minhaj	Yeah, but it's cool though. Actually, those moments where you feel very painful for your ego, there's a lot of growth in that. The only way to break through and get to the next part is that part.
27:31	Shaan Puri	I've done that even in the business world, and I'm going to keep bringing it back because, no, that's basically where a lot of the audience lives.
27:38	Hasan Minhaj	yeah
27:38	Shaan Puri	The things you're talking about—how to get ready for your performance, your day—are similar to what athletes do before they get on the field. Performers do this before they get on stage. I do this before I get on my laptop. It sounds lame, it sounds dorky, but it's like, well, I'm trying to be the best version of myself. I'm trying to set an intention before I go out here. I'm trying to get out of my head so I can do my best.
28:02	Hasan Minhaj	yeah
28:02	Shaan Puri	I do all the same things and I just apply it into this world
28:05	Hasan Minhaj	and then it
28:06	Shaan Puri	doesn't matter if it's a call with a supplier or it's a podcast episode or whatever before you came here
28:10	Hasan Minhaj	yeah
28:11	Shaan Puri	I got it I got through my routine yeah
28:14	Hasan Minhaj	to make sure that is your routine similar ish
28:16	Shaan Puri	Very similar, obviously compressed. Not because, you know, a longer day. So I'll try. I practiced it where I can do it in 10 minutes now. I can get that state in 10 minutes. That's my goal, really. It has three components: breath work. So this first three minutes of breath...
28:30	Hasan Minhaj	yeah
28:30	Shaan Puri	And so, I can use breath to change my physiological state right away. It'll be push-ups and breath work. So, I'll just do 15 to 20 push-ups, and then I'll do breath work for the next 3 minutes. Again, how do you get out of your head? It's not about you; it's about gratitude and thinking about others. I have this little exercise I do. It sounds a little bit cheesy, but I'll say it out loud. People want to try this; you should try it. I just rotate through, almost like in my head. I'll visualize, like, let's say my mom, my sister, or whoever—people I love, people in my life. I just visualize them laughing. I visualize them laughing, which is them in their joyful state. Yeah, and there's no need to think about why I laugh. Nothing. I've seen them laugh a thousand times. I just see them all laugh in succession in my head.
29:07	Hasan Minhaj	yeah
29:07	Shaan Puri	now I'm not thinking about me and my problems and my needs and my desires my I'm just thinking about them
29:12	Hasan Minhaj	yeah
29:13	Shaan Puri	and I'm just it's a good energy that I like yeah the last so
29:16	Hasan Minhaj	you do you you do establish an intention
29:17	Shaan Puri	I do establish it, and then the last bit is I remember why I'm here. So, the thing you were saying, which I'm... you were saying, "I want to bring joy and love to the audience. I want to make them laugh and have a great time."
29:28	Hasan Minhaj	yeah
29:29	Shaan Puri	Same thing. I used to think, "What am I gonna say?" Whether it's a meeting, a presentation, or a podcast... yeah.
29:35	Hasan Minhaj	what am
29:35	Shaan Puri	I gonna say what how's it gonna show up what am I gonna say
29:38	Hasan Minhaj	yeah
29:39	Shaan Puri	Alright, that used to paralyze me. Just thinking, "What am I gonna say? I want to get the right words." I don't want to mess up. So then, as soon as I start talking, there's a little editor in my head being like, "That sounded dumb." Oh, you know, you walked up and you said that thing is super. And then I'm in my head while I'm doing the thing and you're...
29:55	Hasan Minhaj	not in your body and you're
29:56	Shaan Puri	Not... and I wanted to just be clear. Okay, how did I do that? So then I stopped thinking, but I just imagined the end. I already imagined us saying goodbye to each other at the end.
30:07	Hasan Minhaj	of this yeah
30:07	Shaan Puri	and if that happened that means this all went well yeah
30:10	Hasan Minhaj	and
30:10	Shaan Puri	I remember okay the people listening to this what are they gonna be thinking they're gonna be thinking blah blah blah they're gonna be saying these things
30:14	Hasan Minhaj	yeah
30:15	Shaan Puri	Dude, that episode was amazing! I love Hasan, man. You have to have him on again; he was so good.
30:20	Hasan Minhaj	right so now
30:21	Shaan Puri	I don't have to think about what questions to ask. I'm already remembering what I'm trying to deliver. I'm not going to learn a new skill in the next 5 minutes. The performance is going to be based on all the hard work I've done over a decade about whatever I'm doing. So, I don't try to cram for the exam. I just try to put myself in the right state of mind so I can perform the way that I already know how to do. That's my routine to start my day every day.
30:45	Hasan Minhaj	How do you get over you're part of this thing again? I call it like the business internet world.
30:50	Shaan Puri	yeah
30:51	Hasan Minhaj	Which can be filled with people that are sincere in their intentions. It's filled with grifters. It's filled with sometimes people that are trying to get rich quick schemes. You're part of this really... it's actually quite similar to Hollywood and politics in that way. Yeah, because if you work in show business, you'll quickly see that too. You know, like shit can run from people that are really about it—artists like Nas and Kendrick Lamar—all the way to Logan Paul and Jake Paul, who are just about the WWF circus show. This world that you're running in, and people are now talking about money and business in a really interesting way. When people come out and they comment about you and your businesses, and they quote tweet you and they're dunking on you, that's a part of now the social currency. This is all social currency that you're part of. Oh, the more subscribers I get, then I can do commercials and we can sell the pod. You're a business guy, right? How do you deal with those negative critiques? Does it bother you? What’s...?
31:51	Shaan Puri	So, the honest answer is, yeah, every negative comment feels like ten times worse than every positive comment. You know, that is the initial reaction. But there's also a difference between response and reaction. If I'm not in the right state of mind, that initial reaction might lead me to clap back, like, "Uh-huh, they're so dumb because of this and this." I'll go look at their profile and see they only have 11 followers, and I think, "Maybe this is why you have 11 followers because you think this way." You know, I'm right, you're wrong, blah, blah, blah. Yeah, and I realized pretty quickly that doesn't get me anywhere. In fact, it would waste almost half a day or a whole day of mine just checking the mentions for good and bad. Like, if I go viral, good! I go check all the comments. I'm just addicted to refreshing the page. The thing you did that was amazing, the bit about this, was the most relatable for me. You just played it up; it was amazing. Yeah, people aren't going to know this unless they go see the show. You'll see this part about the social media content.
32:46	Hasan Minhaj	likes yeah
32:47	Shaan Puri	the social media
32:48	Hasan Minhaj	that cocaine cloud
32:49	Shaan Puri	That cocaine cloud, exactly. But with that comes the kind of negativity, and that also is fun. Exactly. It's this thing in its own way.
32:57	Hasan Minhaj	yeah
32:58	Shaan Puri	And so, what I kind of like... where do I land with all that? Yeah, okay, so you know the good. They think I'm like a genius guru. I'm not. You know, my wife will remind me of that real quick. And you know, there are other people who think I'm an idiot, a scammer, or whatever. People who think I'm an idiot who doesn't know anything about anything... or I'm wrong or whatever.
33:18	Hasan Minhaj	yeah
33:18	Shaan Puri	or they'll. Out that I've stumbled and said this said this the wrong way or whatever
33:22	Hasan Minhaj	yeah
33:24	Shaan Puri	Okay, where is my focus going to go? Should I focus on why I'm so great or why I'm so terrible? Really, that does nothing for me.
33:30	Hasan Minhaj	right
33:31	Shaan Puri	So I said, "Okay, I do need a sounding board." So I'll say... I get a reaction from people, good or bad, but let me just get curious: Why are people reacting this way? I'll take a minute to observe that.
33:44	Hasan Minhaj	yeah
33:44	Shaan Puri	Then I'll go internal and I'll say, "What's my judgment?" Because I guess my rule that I created for myself was that I want my own opinion of myself to be higher than anybody else's opinion of me.
33:54	Hasan Minhaj	you mean positive opinion
33:56	Shaan Puri	any anything if I think something sucks that I did
33:59	Hasan Minhaj	yeah
33:59	Shaan Puri	I don't care what anybody else says. I think it is so... I basically want my opinion of myself to be the trump card.
34:05	Hasan Minhaj	right
34:05	Shaan Puri	And so, that works for self-respect. Like, yeah, I stop seeking the respect of others because I'm like, "Well, if I don't have my own respect, then what is all this other stuff worth?"
34:16	Hasan Minhaj	but then how did you get that wisdom
34:17	Shaan Puri	because that's
34:17	Hasan Minhaj	because we are social creatures
34:19	Shaan Puri	My trainer, so my trainer's kind of my... my first trainer. He's also like a... he's like me. He's like, "Dude, it's all in the mind. This is a solo player game."
34:28	Hasan Minhaj	yeah
34:29	Shaan Puri	And we gotta train this just as much as we train the rest. Yeah, so he said something at the very beginning. He was like, "Why do you want to work out?" I was like, "Oh, I just want to get fit. I've got really fat doing my last company. I just want to lose weight." Okay, he wanted to know the drive shaft—what's driving you to do this?
34:42	Hasan Minhaj	yeah
34:42	Shaan Puri	What's making you think that? What's making you think you're fat? Why'd you call me today? Yeah, why today? Why didn't you call me 6 months ago? What changed?
34:49	Hasan Minhaj	yeah
34:50	Shaan Puri	Eventually, it got down to this experience I had where I went with my two best friends, who are business mentors. They are a bit older than me. Look, all the things I do, they've done a little bit more.
34:58	Hasan Minhaj	yeah
34:59	Shaan Puri	And we all went on a Spartan race together. I thought, "Oh, I'm a little out of shape." Oh, we're all a little out of shape; it's no big deal.
35:06	Hasan Minhaj	yeah
35:06	Shaan Puri	We went on the Spartan Race, and I was way behind. I was just huffing and puffing, and I was dying on this thing. They were trying to help me, and every time they helped me, I just felt like a bitch. I was like, "Oh man."
35:17	Hasan Minhaj	wow
35:17	Shaan Puri	I like... this is embarrassing. I'd rather they just ran and finished the race, right? And left me to, like, you know, deal with my own on this mountain here. The worst thing you could do is push me from behind because I'm like, "Shit, don't give me the pep talk!" No, anything but that.
35:30	Hasan Minhaj	pep talk yeah so I
35:31	Shaan Puri	I told him, I said, "I was pretty embarrassed. I had this situation. I just want to have the respect of the people I respect." I thought that sounded like a good thing to say.
35:39	Hasan Minhaj	yeah
35:40	Shaan Puri	And he goes, "Okay, respect." He says, "Respect's one of those things because you want to give it, not seek it." So, he goes, "Two things. We're not going to do this. We're not going to start this program from a place where you're trying to get the respect of others. Whenever you feel you lack, it's time to give." He continues, "Let's not worry about what respect you're trying to get from others and who you're trying to prove yourself to. Let's become a giver of respect to yourself and to others." So, we started flipping the script, and this became one of my philosophies: whatever you feel like you lack in the moment, that's a signal it's time to give that exact thing. When you give it, you realize, "I got it. I have it in abundance." So, it's kind of like a...
36:18	Hasan Minhaj	yeah
36:19	Shaan Puri	circular way of thinking about
36:20	Hasan Minhaj	it yeah
36:20	Shaan Puri	but that was the the thought process for me at least on this on this topic
36:25	Hasan Minhaj	I guess that's cool. Yeah, that's really interesting, man. I don't know. You know, I called you about one of your tweets that went viral again. It was specifically about the metaverse and how the digital world will matter more than the physical world. I think the reason why it so deeply philosophically rubbed me the wrong way was because the pseudonymous digital world has commodified cowardice in such a way that the real world and the game checks you. What do I mean by that? You know, I grew up as a DC kid who'd play at 24 Hour Fitness.
37:04	Shaan Puri	right
37:04	Hasan Minhaj	You play ball at 24 Hour Fitness. It's first to 12, straight up or win by 2. But if you lose, get the fuck off the court.
37:10	Shaan Puri	right
37:10	Hasan Minhaj	I remember there'd be these guys. It's an honor code. These guys that were nice, it'd be 11:11 straight up. This dude would step back, hit it, and as he's about to hit it, he'd go, "Get the fuck off the court." Right? And you would respect it because he stood there and he's like, "Right, I beat you 12 to 11. It's over."
37:26	Shaan Puri	this is a there's no argument yeah
37:27	Hasan Minhaj	this is not subjective this is objective reality next
37:30	Shaan Puri	yeah
37:30	Hasan Minhaj	And you gotta sit there and you gotta run it back. You gotta wait another one game, or two games, or three games, and then run it back. But for the first time in history, there are people that stand on stage—whether it's in business, life, comedy, or art—and they use their actual government name. Meanwhile, pseudonymous trolls, who don't use their government name, can launch digital drone strikes, attacking your character, your family. This can potentially impose economic sanctions upon your future.
38:03	Shaan Puri	yep
38:04	Hasan Minhaj	And they do it pseudonymously. Yeah, philosophically, I don't rock with that. Say that shit with your chest.
38:10	Shaan Puri	right
38:12	Hasan Minhaj	Get on the court with me at 24 Hour Fitness. Let's cook... let's play against each other. That's what fundamentally bothers me. This is a dishonorable craft, right? It's not honorable. It's not a fair fight.
38:27	Shaan Puri	the the way I look at
38:27	Hasan Minhaj	it how do you think I should unpack that that's the problem I was like why does this bother me
38:32	Shaan Puri	Yeah, well, that's the first good... that's the right question. Which is not, "Why are they doing this?" or "Why is there a lot of hate?" or "Why does this bother me?" Right? The curiosity is what will set you free. Because you gotta say, "Do I enjoy...?"
38:44	Hasan Minhaj	yeah
38:44	Shaan Puri	focusing on this do I enjoy this like trap this like uncontrollable script you're not gonna stop it yeah
38:49	Hasan Minhaj	we all
38:49	Shaan Puri	agree on that you're not gonna turn them all off yeah right so so that's not gonna happen
38:52	Hasan Minhaj	This is the world now. This is the world. I'm also thinking about my children too because I'm trying to prepare. I have a 3-year-old and a 1-year-old. How do I prepare them for this new world order?
39:00	Shaan Puri	right
39:01	Hasan Minhaj	And in a weird way, let's... I'll keep riffing this out with you. Let's figure this out. In a weird way, there are times where I'm like, "Yo, I wish you punched me in the face," actually, because I've...
39:09	Shaan Puri	been I would prefer that
39:10	Hasan Minhaj	How many fights have you gotten into in your life? I've gotten into three. Okay, I've gotten into three, and I've lost all of them. Yes, one time, some kid was trying to steal my shoes. I didn't let him, and then he just beat the shit out of me. But I'm proud of it! I kept my shoes. They were one of my Jordan thirteens, but I kept them. I remember thinking about the real-life nature of this. There is some level of virtue even in this fight, right? That it ends, and it ends today. We've resolved this here.
39:37	Shaan Puri	right which is why you see when people fight it it's gone the beef is usually gone after
39:41	Hasan Minhaj	it's gone as long
39:42	Shaan Puri	as the fight was on fair terms
39:43	Hasan Minhaj	yeah
39:44	Shaan Puri	both people are like sort of mutual respect by the end of it yeah
39:47	Hasan Minhaj	it's over
39:47	Shaan Puri	yeah it's over
39:47	Hasan Minhaj	And it's settled. That doesn't happen all the time. Yeah, this is the first time where we don't really have that. The reason why I'm saying this is: say it with your government name. If someone says "Sean is corny" or "Hassan is corny," anytime any comedian or contemporary says that, I go, "Cool, put up your hour against my hour." Right? Oh, I'm corny? I'll do 10, you do 10. Right? Let's see what it is. Let's play to 12.
40:15	Shaan Puri	right
40:15	Hasan Minhaj	let's play to 12 like I love the dance of it straight up or win by 2
40:20	Shaan Puri	well it's a merit based thing
40:21	Hasan Minhaj	yeah but but when ballgame
40:23	Shaan Puri	Is it a merit-based thing? Again, you said you can get up on stage. Yeah, even no matter what your name is, you can't make them laugh. You can't just force them to laugh.
40:31	Hasan Minhaj	yeah
40:31	Shaan Puri	it is merit based you must earn that laugh
40:33	Hasan Minhaj	it's why my favorite thing right now in pop culture is the verzuz right
40:37	Shaan Puri	I don't
40:37	Hasan Minhaj	I know if you saw Dipset versus The Lox. Yeah, but you could see Jadakiss go up against Dipset, and I thought Dipset was gonna win. But Jadakiss was so nice; he just buried them. It was... let's play to 12.
40:50	Shaan Puri	right
40:50	Hasan Minhaj	You play your records, I'll play my records, and there's something so honorable in that. This new digital world order is so not honorable, right? Because there's no reconciliation at the end either. So I quote tweet you, and by the way, shitposting is now incentivized. Actually, being a negative Nancy and being an absolutist in your position is now commodified and incentivized. You can't even recognize, "Yo, you won, I lost. Good game," and there's no shake on it.
41:20	Shaan Puri	Well, it even gets worse because what you say online, what you display online, the photos you take online, is so easily faked. It's not even like... it's like if instead of going and playing at 24 Hour Fitness, we each submitted a mixtape. So, here's my mixtape versus your mixtape. It's like, how much editing really is going into your lifestyle, your opinion, your persona? Yeah, your face, all of it is filtered, is edited, is curated, leaving out the bad stuff. The more real you are... so the way I look at this is...
41:50	Hasan Minhaj	By the way, I'm not shitting on digital skills. If two people are competing against each other in video games, I still like that. There are NBA 2K tournaments, but it's about whether you are better at 2K than me. So, I think about the way in which I want to live my life, and I want my kids to live honorable lives too. Compete! There's nothing wrong with losing, but be a good competitor. Be an honorable competitor. Say "good game."
42:15	Shaan Puri	right
42:15	Hasan Minhaj	But when I'm using my government name and Baldrape 79 is risking nothing, I'm like, "This is wack. This game is wack." And Baldrape, even you can't deny that. But I don't know if the people on the other side recognize that. Go ahead. I mean, I just love your analysis on this.
42:32	Shaan Puri	So, I guess the way I look at it is that the pendulum has swung. In the past, when everybody was online or in real life, using real names and merit-based interactions, people still had their opinions in their heads. They just couldn't broadcast them. If someone thought you were corny before, they were thinking that, but they weren't saying it. They couldn't amplify their thoughts to each other.
42:55	Hasan Minhaj	or or they would say it and you're like okay cool so you think I'm corny right
42:58	Shaan Puri	and it took a it took a buy in it had to ante up yeah
43:01	Hasan Minhaj	They were gonna... and let's swear off in the lunchroom. So, you think I'm corny now? I can make fun of your shoes. I can make fun of your hat. I can make fun of, you know, who you're dating. I can make fun of your model. There was a cost.
43:11	Shaan Puri	to enter there's a cost
43:12	Hasan Minhaj	cost cost to enter the cost
43:13	Shaan Puri	of the barrier to enter is so low
43:15	Hasan Minhaj	now yeah
43:15	Shaan Puri	right fake name fake handle whatever you could just go on there and say whatever you want you know
43:20	Hasan Minhaj	What we're analyzing right now is Kevin Durant syndrome. Kevin Durant is one of the greatest basketball players on planet Earth, and there are people on the internet that get Kevin Durant and his feelings fired up. Yeah.
43:29	Shaan Puri	and then he says he doesn't care but
43:31	Hasan Minhaj	Obviously, he knows. So this actually... because to me, I was like, "Yo, if..." and I talk about it in the show. I'm like, "Yo, these memes hurt my feelings. I'm a person, right?" But I'm like, "Yo, if KD is getting in his feelings..." 7-foot, 2-inch wingspan, can cross people over, built like a velociraptor, but can move like a guard.
43:50	Shaan Puri	yeah
43:50	Hasan Minhaj	Then, just like, "Shoot!" A sledgehammer on you. He's getting in his feelings about these laymen at home. We're in a big fundamental shift in society and culture in a way that it never was like that before.
44:03	Shaan Puri	Yeah, so I think basically the reason you get the rewards you do is because of all these things as well. By going out there under your real name, with your real face, and with authenticity, telling your real-life stories—which is what you do, right? You're talking about fertility issues and stuff like that. You're getting like "bing, bing, bing, bing, bing!" The score, the meter is just running up. Why? Because it's in such scarcity today. We don't get that from most people in most situations. So when somebody does it, you're running up the score real quick.
44:33	Hasan Minhaj	right right
44:33	Shaan Puri	You get the benefits of being the counter to all of the high level of accountability. Counter to it, you're putting it on the line. So, you're getting all of the benefits and you're getting the scale of those benefits. Before, without technology, you'd be on local shows. I saw this guy in North Carolina; he was amazing. The guy in Texas? I don't... I'm not a fan of that person. I've never seen them.
44:53	Hasan Minhaj	yeah
44:54	Shaan Puri	You do the Netflix show, you do Twitter, you do stuff like that. You're reaching everybody, everywhere, all at once. Yeah, and so you're getting the benefits of that leverage. You're running up the score because that is what society lacks today—this real honor code. It's like, "Look, I'm gonna go try to earn it under my real name. I'll put myself out there, I'll let you judge me, and if I'm good, I'm good. If I lose, I lose." Yeah, and I'm willing to play at those stakes. Because you're willing to play, you're getting all this benefit. People who are not willing to play, they're not gonna get any of the benefit. So they get this proportional, like, you know, small bit of success if they just, like, kind of shit on you. And yeah, dope, maybe not. They get a little immediate dopamine hit, but ultimately, they sort of don't ever really... their score never really goes up.
45:36	Hasan Minhaj	So, you're talking about the capital markets. It's efficient. They will reward you. You will get Durant or whatever. Yeah, or you...
45:42	Shaan Puri	Are you getting rewarded for being authentic and being accountable? With that power comes the trade-off, which is: would you like this giant prize?
45:54	Hasan Minhaj	yeah
45:54	Shaan Puri	and here's the here's what the the hair on the deal yeah here's the cost of that big reward
45:59	Hasan Minhaj	yeah
45:59	Shaan Puri	Where you blew up in, like, I don't know, 5 years or something like that. In the last 5 years, you had this meteoric rise. Yeah, awesome! It's because you had the right answer when society was going one way. You were an awesome counterpoint. Yeah, you were willing to say what was on your mind. You were willing to say what was right, and you used technology to go viral as hell because you had something good. It went viral; it spread like crazy. So, you're going to have to pay this tax, this vig, along the way. You gotta recognize there are two sides of the same coin. And so that's where it's like the 24 Hour Fitness scale, where everybody was being accountable.
46:34	Hasan Minhaj	yeah
46:34	Shaan Puri	cool but it was only operating at this like small scale it's
46:38	Hasan Minhaj	not scaled
46:38	Shaan Puri	yeah it's not it's not scaled up
46:39	Hasan Minhaj	yeah
46:40	Shaan Puri	you're getting the benefits of this thing
46:42	Hasan Minhaj	right
46:42	Shaan Puri	And with that comes certain trade-offs. I think that's just the way I look at it. I believe that’s a good framing. Society's going in that direction, and so you're already on the right side of history here. You're willing to play a different game, and because of that, you're going to win a very different prize. Yeah, and you're seeing that your career is basically an example of that.
46:59	Hasan Minhaj	So, just so the listeners know, I called you on the phone when that thread went viral. I said, "Hey Sean," and I'm so glad you picked up. Very few people pick up these days—like, real talk, pick up the phone. I go, "Hey man, this actually irks me here." And you know, I'm such an artist, man, so I operate from a feeling perspective. Then I start questioning, "Why do I feel this way?"
47:18	Shaan Puri	the fuck that's what I'm through yeah
47:19	Hasan Minhaj	And I was like, "I'm an IRL guy." But when you're telling me everything is going to be in the metaverse, I don't want to be a pseudonymous drone. I don't want to throw drone strikes at people that I can't see. I want to talk about what's real. If you watch the show, like I'm talking about what's real. I'm talking about me and Bina, my kids, right? What I went through going at dictators and governments—it's real. This is real life. I talk about lawsuits and this just crazy stuff. But I'm like, "Hey, it's real. It's my experience."
47:48	Shaan Puri	right
47:48	Hasan Minhaj	I'm being sincere and authentic in that experience, and I got the receipts. I don't want to live in a world where I'm a Reddit commentator and you're a Reddit commentator. Let's just argue ad infinitum. That's a zero value add to society for me.
48:03	Shaan Puri	right
48:04	Hasan Minhaj	But I guess what you're saying is right. You're like, "Well, the more you double down on that, the capital markets will perhaps reward you."
48:11	Shaan Puri	So, you're being rewarded right now for that accountability. The comedian who gets up there and just tells dick jokes is not going to have the same emotional resonance as you going up there and talking about fertility issues. You're dealing with it and what that was like. The attention that's loaded in that is significant because anybody— I just had two kids— anyone who's been through anything with kids and that whole process...
48:29	Hasan Minhaj	yeah
48:29	Shaan Puri	the uncertainty like we didn't even have any issues but my wife was worried that we might have issues it loaded the relationship with tension
48:34	Hasan Minhaj	I'm sure you have friends that went through it too
48:35	Shaan Puri	Let's get started earlier because it might happen. You know, like it's a connection. So you put yourself, the real you, out there.
48:43	Hasan Minhaj	you get the reward right
48:44	Shaan Puri	A comedian who just makes the dick jokes? I laugh, I move on with my life. I don't feel like I'm going to back this guy the way that I felt by the end of your show. I was like, "I'm about what this dude's about."
48:53	Hasan Minhaj	oh wow
48:54	Shaan Puri	Right, because that's you. That's what you do. You drew a line in the sand and said, "This is what I'm about." Yeah, you've told... you built your case.
49:01	Hasan Minhaj	yeah
49:01	Shaan Puri	and at the end of that how could you not be like
49:03	Hasan Minhaj	right right yeah
49:04	Shaan Puri	I'm on yeah
49:04	Hasan Minhaj	and it's something I would be cool if you don't cool
49:07	Shaan Puri	And so, it was a very different thing. It wasn't just laughing; it was like laughing, but also this person just put their balls on the table and said, "This is what I'm about." Yeah, and you gotta respect that. Then you gotta react to that. You gotta pick a side. You're either about that or you're not, and that's okay. You can go either way. Yeah, but he made it very clear. And then I'm like, that guy's gonna build an army because he's gonna build... because there's a lot of people who are gonna hear that and be like, "Mhm."
49:29	Hasan Minhaj	I rock with that
49:30	Shaan Puri	I rock with that
49:30	Hasan Minhaj	yeah
49:31	Shaan Puri	Whereas if he just did a bunch of impressions of what Indian aunties sound like, I would have laughed.
49:36	Hasan Minhaj	yeah
49:36	Shaan Puri	And then I would have been like, "Next time you have something, I'm not lining up for it. I'm not camping out for it."
49:42	Hasan Minhaj	right right
49:42	Shaan Puri	because I don't I didn't connect in that way
49:44	Hasan Minhaj	right
49:45	Shaan Puri	but you did it so I I think you get paid for for doing that
49:47	Hasan Minhaj	so you're saying just be aware of that yeah
49:50	Shaan Puri	Be aware of that and recognize what’s already working for you. Why that bothers you is because you’re the opposite of that.
49:59	Hasan Minhaj	yeah
49:59	Shaan Puri	But there's also a piece of it that could be you, but you've intensely driven the other way. So when you see it, you're like, "I built my brand being the opposite of that." Yeah, so it's like when Apple sees a poorly designed product. Steve Jobs was disgusted when he saw other products that were not well thought through. He was annoyed with it in a way that no other CEO was, right? Because he built himself as someone who cares about the inside of the design, the inside of the case, and what that looks like. These other companies don't even care what the outside of it looks like.
50:26	Hasan Minhaj	right
50:26	Shaan Puri	You know, it disgusted him in a way that it disgusts you. Somebody who has no accountability sort of stands for nothing, just trying to dunk on people on the outside, right? So I think that's part of it. To go to the metaverse side of it, I think it's not as different as you think. Let's say the world does move to where these online identities and that digital identity matter a lot. Yeah, you know, you have a screen name. My first screen name was "Mister Gubapol." You know, so like whatever, that's what I picked up. Great! I'm so... I don't even know what that is.
50:55	Hasan Minhaj	yeah
50:55	Shaan Puri	let let's say that let's say that stuck with me
50:57	Hasan Minhaj	right it's so funny you know you know my first screen name was hasan minhaj 1
51:02	Shaan Puri	I've always been this way yeah had 1
51:04	Hasan Minhaj	It's always, "Yes, it was taken." And then I remember on AIM, Hasan Minhaj went online. Do you remember the door? You see, hear the sound of the door open?
51:10	Shaan Puri	of course right
51:10	Hasan Minhaj	and then I plugged in my phone yeah and I messaged him and then it just immediately the door closed
51:16	Shaan Puri	So, I think that, yeah, whatever your screen name is, it'll be the same. Like this name you have, Hasan Minhaj, that's what was given to you. It's your, for better or worse, it's your stage name for the world. Sure, and you're building up a reputation.
51:30	Hasan Minhaj	accountable yeah
51:31	Shaan Puri	Yeah, it doesn't matter if that name was Mr. Guppable or if it's Hassan. It doesn't really matter what the real name is. It's whatever you're going to make accountable. You're going to say, "Hey, if you like me, if you trust me, put my reputation on this name."
51:45	Hasan Minhaj	yeah
51:45	Shaan Puri	And then if I mess up that name, it has lost its value. Yes, well, in the metaverse, you might be able to pick a second name, but it's still going to work the same way. People are still going to have to put up or shut up under some handle. It doesn't matter if it matches your social security number. That's kind of my take on that, but I don't know. It's a wild world of how that's going to turn out, I think. We're still a ways away from that being a reality.
52:12	Hasan Minhaj	You get the points of like the things that you do that you're doing right now. Like the fact that you take time to train and think. You are preparing your mind as a physical, corporal being with two feet on planet Earth.
52:23	Shaan Puri	yeah
52:24	Hasan Minhaj	Rather than being just like this guy with the headset, and you're just like in the Matrix, you know what I mean? Your body is literally just being used as heat to be a part of this.
52:34	Shaan Puri	yeah
52:35	Hasan Minhaj	ready player 1 world
52:36	Shaan Puri	yeah well you know
52:37	Hasan Minhaj	what I mean and I'm just like yeah
52:38	Shaan Puri	I'm not gonna say I'm above that like maybe when that's here maybe I will
52:42	Hasan Minhaj	I remember I'm afraid my kids are going to tackle me and just put it on my head, like, "Join us! Yeah, join us, Dad!" I'm like, "I don't want to do this."
52:50	Shaan Puri	Well, it's like... I don't know if you remember before the phone. I remember thinking it was like batshit crazy. People would go watch movies on this tiny screen. Why would you do that? That's like, I don't want to do that. That's no fun. I love going to the theater. I love the feel of the newspaper.
53:02	Hasan Minhaj	yeah
53:02	Shaan Puri	If you had told me, "Hey, you're going to check your phone like 170 times a day," I would have been like, "Why would I do that? I'm not a hamster. I don't want to live that rat lifestyle, just constantly checking for my email."
53:12	Hasan Minhaj	why would I need
53:12	Shaan Puri	to do that I can just check my email once a day or whatever you know like
53:15	Hasan Minhaj	like yeah
53:16	Shaan Puri	The things I do normally today would have seemed really abnormal. I could've, I would've been kind of disgusted by some of the things. Yeah, and then other things I would've been like, "There's no way that, you know, how would I be able to do that? It's not plugged in. Where would the internet come from?"
53:29	Hasan Minhaj	Like, how do you... now you've embraced that, but then how do you eliminate noise from your life? One of the things I'm genuinely curious about is Trung, your friend. Trung, who's hilarious online... shit, yeah, he's fucking hilarious, right? My question is, I was like, how much just internet garbage is going in that guy's head every day? I want to meet him. Where is he? In like Vancouver or something like that?
53:50	Shaan Puri	he's in vancouver he's
53:51	Hasan Minhaj	In Canada somewhere, I should've invited him to the show. I was just in Vancouver, but I'm like, how much fecal matter of garbage is going in your head for him to be like, "This is the meme," right? Because he has to sift through, right?
54:02	Shaan Puri	that's his job it's filtering through shit yeah here's one here's a good one
54:06	Hasan Minhaj	yeah just for shit yeah
54:09	Shaan Puri	and
54:09	Hasan Minhaj	How does that affect your body and mind? So, what I'm asking you, and I would love to ask Strong, is: for you guys, how do you eliminate just sheer garbage? If 80% of your day is just sifting through that, which is so much of what internet discourse is... and again, the algorithm is incentivized for people yelling at each other, not for solutions-oriented thinking and conversation. How do you then have a high efficacy rate? Because I feel like we live in an era now where you're busy, but you're just doing absolute horseshit.
54:40	Shaan Puri	Yeah, this is where I've heard this great quote from this guy. He's an entrepreneur; I don't remember his name, but he told me something. He goes, he was talking about, like, I was like, "So what are you doing outside of building your startup?" If I'm going to invest, I first get to know, like, what do you do when you're not coding this thing?
54:55	Hasan Minhaj	yeah
54:56	Shaan Puri	And he was like, "I said, oh, I got some friends. Here's what we do." I go, "He's like, yeah, we're making music." I was like, "So you're trying to make a band?" He's like, "No, we just make music together because it's more fun than listening to music." I go, "What?" And he goes, "Yeah, we make videos." I'm like, "You're trying to be a YouTuber?" He's like, "No, it's just better than sitting there and watching YouTube." He goes, "I have this rule, which is: good friends consume together; great friends create together."
55:20	Hasan Minhaj	that's dope
55:20	Shaan Puri	He goes, "You know, you can look at all your relationships and say, what percentage of the time are we just consuming? We go to a restaurant, we just consume shit versus cooking something together."
55:28	Hasan Minhaj	when we
55:28	Shaan Puri	Go to the movies. We just consume something or binge-watch a show versus trying to make something together. Make some art, do a project together, or build a gingerbread house. It doesn't matter.
55:37	Hasan Minhaj	yeah
55:37	Shaan Puri	What the thing is, yeah, he goes like, "The great relationships in my life, I recognize they're great because we create." And the ones I want to be great, I create more than we consume. Right? So similarly, whether it's even with work, I try to create. I think most people are consuming like 99% of the time. I think they're literally just mouth open, ingesting like, "Yeah, whatever the hell everybody else is." You know, the few content creators are creating; they're just taking it all in and then they're hoping that their brain doesn't get like, you know, turned into peanut butter.
56:04	Hasan Minhaj	yeah
56:05	Shaan Puri	and what I do is like I know it's very addictive to just sit there and scroll the feeds
56:09	Hasan Minhaj	yeah
56:10	Shaan Puri	I do it from time to time, but yeah, I try to say, "Alright, I need to be creating 80% of the content and I'll consume 20%."
56:16	Hasan Minhaj	yeah
56:16	Shaan Puri	But of my time that I'm thinking about content, that's like... that's like doing this and I'm not with my family, I'm not in the gym, I'm not whatever.
56:23	Hasan Minhaj	yeah
56:23	Shaan Puri	I'm gonna be creating
56:24	Hasan Minhaj	yeah
56:25	Shaan Puri	and so I can only consume to the extent it helps me create
56:28	Hasan Minhaj	how do you build community
56:30	Shaan Puri	In the startup world, it was not hard because really, it's like comics probably, where they're all trying to do something really hard: build a business from scratch. There's a "misery loves company" type of thing where there's this rapport that's built among people. We'll help each other out, we'll get along with each other; we're all going through the same challenges. So, my community became other people who were startup founders when I was doing that. Now that I'm kind of more focused on creating content and building an audience and a brand, it's people who are trying to do that as well. We have one friend, Pump, who is amazing at content. He's great at building his brand; he's like the Bitcoin guy.
57:10	Hasan Minhaj	he's the bitcoin guy yeah
57:12	Shaan Puri	But when I look at it, I say, "Wow, there's a lot of things I admire about what he did." However, I also have to learn that I would never want to do what he's doing. He does this thing; he has a daily business show on YouTube. Now, every day, he wakes up at 5 in the morning or whatever, and he's creating like a 3-hour live show.
57:26	Hasan Minhaj	yeah he's doing his squawk box every day
57:29	Shaan Puri	Every day, I'm like, "I get it, that would work." I would never want to do that. I never want to go that path. So I'm like, yeah, trying to triangulate and learn from where he did these other three things. I thought they were fucking dope.
57:39	Hasan Minhaj	yeah
57:39	Shaan Puri	But I'm like, "Oh, that's a great idea! I should add that to my game." Yeah, it's just like any athlete. It's like anybody trying to get good at anything. You surround yourself with people who are in the game, trying to do the same thing as you. That's your peer group. You commiserate and share strategies with each other. Then you have some people who have already done it; they're kind of your mentors. You go to them, you know, from time to time and ask them for something. I'm sure you have the same thing, totally. I bet.
58:00	Hasan Minhaj	Yeah, I asked the Jedi. There are a bunch of Jedi, and then there are other Padawans that are part of my contemporary class. That happens all the time.
58:06	Shaan Puri	And how did you get good? When did you go from "suck" to "non-suck"? Because everybody starts, I believe, at "suck." That's like the Pixar way. I don't know if you've heard this before, but Pixar has a philosophy: all movies start at "suck." Our job is to remove the "suck," so there's "non-suck" left at the end. And so, I took that approach.
58:23	Hasan Minhaj	The Daily Show changed my life. Seeing the way Jon Stewart worked, especially that institution—both The Daily Show and SNL. Love them or hate them, they're part of comedy institutions. SNL has been around for 50 years now, and The Daily Show for 25. You know, these are pedigree boot camps for understanding the process of how to think about comedy.
58:47	Shaan Puri	right and one
58:47	Hasan Minhaj	Of the things that I realized is what John taught me and Trevor showed me. You know, John really unlocked the code. But it's like, it's all about your take. What is your take? And being able to back it up. So it's not even about being funny first. It's about what is the take? What am I trying to say philosophically and artistically? Let's...
59:08	Shaan Puri	Give an example. Who did you have on the show last night? You met this guy who's a private equity guy. You're like, "What the fuck is that?" He's like, "Oh yeah, we do like LBOs." You're like, "Yeah, what is a leveraged buyout?"
59:15	Hasan Minhaj	said well use that as you get to as you get to the bottom of your life so you use other people's money
59:18	Shaan Puri	To buy other people's companies and then ruin the people's lives in them by firing them and gutting them, making them profitable, and then flipping it to somebody else.
59:28	Hasan Minhaj	yeah
59:28	Shaan Puri	You're like, "Yeah, I'm not cool with that." I think that's a little bit of a fucked up way to win. It's like, yeah, this is kind of like a vulture.
59:35	Hasan Minhaj	just legal stealing yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah
59:40	Shaan Puri	this this
59:40	Hasan Minhaj	also it's it's it's stealing well it's legal oh just just because legal doesn't mean it's ethical
59:44	Shaan Puri	right you
59:45	Hasan Minhaj	Know, Bill Cosby got off legally, right? We all know what it is. So, like, that is what the joke I would start with. That's my take around leverage buyouts and vulture funds, right? Then you start tagging it. You can do that Bill Cosby tag. He got off legally. It's not... we all know it's unethical what he did or whatever.
01:00:00	Shaan Puri	the glove didn't fit oj yeah right
01:00:03	Hasan Minhaj	Right, so you must have gone, "Okay," and then you start tagging. The funny just starts flowing from there. Then you go, "That's like this," and then you can just... and what?
01:00:12	Shaan Puri	are you doing you're sitting in a room with like a few people you're just spitballing
01:00:15	Hasan Minhaj	Riffing, bantering, just like that. Yeah, and then eventually you gotta put pen to paper, right? You gotta start writing Act 1. When I watch Weekend Update or when I see an Act 1 on The Daily Show or any of those sketch segments, I now see the matrix. I now see, "Oh, I know how to construct a 7-and-a-half-minute piece."
01:00:31	Shaan Puri	right
01:00:31	Hasan Minhaj	Last Week Tonight, Patriot Act... I know how to do a 27-minute piece on it, right? I know the beats and the flow of that. What was really cool was it just gave me that central kind of philosophy: how do I do this? So, the first 10, 11, 12 years of my career, I was just trying to be funny. What John in 2014 really helped me unlock was like, "No, no, no. You need to have... there needs to be an actual process and purpose to what you do." Mhmm.
01:00:58	Shaan Puri	now I'm
01:00:58	Hasan Minhaj	Not saying this as a virtue thing, no. You just need to be... even if you're doing dick jokes or being silly, there needs to be an understanding of the game and how to heighten it comedically, right? Even stupid, silly jokes are like that. So that was the unlock for me. Then, just reps—trying to get as good as possible. Now, my next thing that I'm working on the most is the jazz part of it. Like, "Yo, just have fun." That's always been one of my weaknesses because, like I told you, I'm a Kumon kid.
01:01:31	Shaan Puri	you're structured
01:01:32	Hasan Minhaj	And so, we're so built around fear. There are these moments that I try to have on stage. I don't know if you saw, but I was just kind of unhinged. Like the first three or four minutes of the set, I'm literally just riffing. Yeah, when I was making fun of the kid's shorts—there was a kid in the front row wearing short shorts. Just short shorts! It's insane. The eyes were just all up on the chair and then like the seats in the back. You know, seeing people come in late and then riffing off of that. It's pure jazz. Now, jazz has structure, but there's also play, right? You can go back to it, and it's that organized chaos that I'm trying to start to tap into.
01:02:11	Shaan Puri	And you're doing well now. I don't know how you were doing before, but I'll say, let's say, when did things start getting really good? It was about the last 4 or 5 years, yeah.
01:02:21	Hasan Minhaj	I would say probably around the White House Correspondents' Dinner, that was my kind of big breakthrough. It was a moment of national recognition, where you don't have to be a fan of The Daily Show or just a fan of comedy. I penetrated the front page of the news feed, gaining fame, clout, and credibility.
01:02:41	Shaan Puri	and you so you started doing well you started making money doing this thing which is amazing
01:02:46	Hasan Minhaj	yeah
01:02:47	Shaan Puri	so hard to do so you did it
01:02:49	Hasan Minhaj	yeah
01:02:49	Shaan Puri	And what do you do? So, let's talk about the breakout—how you broke through. But now that you're here, you've arrived, and you're doing really well. Now, on the business side of things, how are you running the show? Are you just, you know, "I'm just touring 24/7"? I don't even think about the money; it just goes into my account. I don't think about it yet. Are you like investing? What are you thinking about that?
01:03:08	Hasan Minhaj	And so, you know, that's the really interesting thing. Now I'm starting to think more about the business side of things. Not so much in the "I'm a venture capitalist, I want a 100x, I want a 1000x" way. The way show business works, I think like any business really, but show business specifically is extremely predatory. It's built on this idea that we provide the labor, and they're kind of banking on you being desperate, right? Dumb and not owning your intellectual property (IP) and content creation. They are banking on that. And they, meaning like the big studios, the powers that be, the big streamers, the agencies, all those sorts of things, they're banking on you not knowing what it is. I think for the first time in history, we're starting to see close groups of collaborators coming together and building things themselves.
01:04:03	Shaan Puri	right
01:04:04	Hasan Minhaj	They can still run them through the big pipes in the studio system, but they're also like, "No, no, no, we independently operate. We cook everything, we write everything completely." So, like, me and Prashant, we started a company. We write, we produce, and we executive produce people's projects. But we do the whole thing—kit and caboodle.
01:04:19	Shaan Puri	right
01:04:19	Hasan Minhaj	And hypothetically, Sean would come to me and say, "Hey listen, man, I'm hosting this 15-minute event at this thing and I want it to fucking rip. I want it to kill." I would respond, "Cool, what's your take? What do you want to say?" Then I would say, "Right, blah blah blah, come sit down with me in PV. Let's break down your Act 1."
01:04:34	Shaan Puri	right
01:04:35	Hasan Minhaj	And we'll tag it up and do all that stuff. That's a cool opportunity for us to collaborate and for us to "brown paper bag" amongst each other.
01:04:43	Shaan Puri	mhmm
01:04:44	Hasan Minhaj	and I love the ethos of that like hey let's build together
01:04:47	Shaan Puri	right
01:04:47	Hasan Minhaj	You're an artist and a creative. I'm an artist and a creative. I think lawyers are important; I think agents are important. They're fine, but they're necessary evils. This brown paper bag, this honest relationship that we have as artisans together, is of paramount importance. The more artists we can learn about the business side of things, I think it's going to be for the better. The other part of it, man, is that so much of my life was just trying to make it.
01:05:13	Shaan Puri	yeah
01:05:13	Hasan Minhaj	now I don't even know what to do with money I'm trying to understand what is money what to do with it
01:05:17	Shaan Puri	right and what's your mindset now so what have where have you arrived on that
01:05:20	Hasan Minhaj	To me, money represents... you know, and capital represents two things. Money will not solve all your problems, but it can take care of certain problems. So, if there are 10 problems, 4 of them—say childcare, my daughter's braces, and being able to Uber back and forth to the airport—I can take those problems off the table.
01:05:42	Shaan Puri	right
01:05:43	Hasan Minhaj	It will not solve my marriage. It will not make me a loving father or an attentive father. Those are problems I have to solve. It won't make me in shape, and it won't help my mind. But at least taking those pain points off the table means a lot to me. There's another data point. As an artist, that money can help solve two things. It gives me the opportunity to say no to things. You have "fuck you" money. Like, you should host this game show? No, I'm not going to do that.
01:06:06	Shaan Puri	right
01:06:07	Hasan Minhaj	it also gives me the opportunity to imprint my worldview upon the world on my terms
01:06:11	Shaan Puri	right
01:06:12	Hasan Minhaj	So, the show you saw, I own it outright. I'm not just in the comedy business.
01:06:18	Shaan Puri	bet on yourself
01:06:19	Hasan Minhaj	I'm in the trucking business like I I own and operate that 18 wheel truck
01:06:22	Shaan Puri	you're like mayweather now
01:06:23	Hasan Minhaj	Those lights... there's the holodeck that I'm standing on that glows like I own it. I don't know what I'm going to do with it after this special, but there's a sense of empowerment. I want to say this in the world, and I have the capital to imprint my worldview upon the world.
01:06:39	Shaan Puri	right
01:06:39	Hasan Minhaj	And there's a deeply empowering feeling in that. The next thing that I'm trying to learn, and the reason why I want to be on podcasts and meet people like you, is that artists need to learn more about how money works. So, once you make it and you want to buy a house, provide for your family, and hopefully have childcare in some capacity, how do you not blow it on dumb stuff? Where it gets really sad, man, is that there are a lot of artists and entertainers who get hit up and they'll be like, "Hey, so-and-so has cancer. We need to do a comedy benefit to pay for their medical bills." I'm like, this is sad, man. This guy was on SNL, this guy was on blah blah blah, this guy was on a sitcom, and I'm like, yeah, this has to stop. My question to you would be, and this is the thing I'm trying to figure out: If you were an artist and you suddenly made your money in lump sums—let's say you were given $2,000,000, $1,000,000, or $500,000—you just make these lump sums. What would you do with that money?
01:07:44	Shaan Puri	yeah
01:07:44	Hasan Minhaj	that's the fundamental question that I'm trying to figure out and answer
01:07:48	Shaan Puri	Well, the first thing is, there are going to be a bunch of people telling you what to do with your money, and you have to avoid them at all costs. Correct, the people that are swooping in with the next great opportunity and trying to get you to buy a, you know, Kentucky Fried Chicken franchises and stuff like that. Like, yeah, you have to sort of say, "Alright, how do I get a trusted person who is an expert at this?"
01:08:05	Hasan Minhaj	yeah
01:08:05	Shaan Puri	That is actually good at their job. How do we align our incentives so that they're not able to just pillage me, like it happens to a bunch of athletes?
01:08:11	Hasan Minhaj	yeah
01:08:12	Shaan Puri	they're not just my homeboy you know from from high school or whatever yeah
01:08:16	Hasan Minhaj	because I
01:08:16	Shaan Puri	trust them but they may not be the experts like yes find that intersection of trust and expert
01:08:20	Hasan Minhaj	Can I tell you where it gets really hard? You know, I'm fortunate. Again, I grew up... I'm kind of just a nerdy kid. I was never one to roll with an entourage, right? You know, I pulled up in an Uber here, solo, with my backpack. So, I don't have all those pitfalls that other artists and entertainers have. They are just a couple of expensive jewelry purchases, a couple of car purchases, and a divorce away from just losing it all. Yep, you know, I'm a pretty level-headed guy. That being said, it's interesting. You try to do your research, and it's crazy. I'm 36 years old, and I'm starting to reread about financial literacy and stuff like that. I'll read books. I'll read J.L. Collins' book, you know, and he's an advocate of VTSAX.
01:09:10	Shaan Puri	right
01:09:10	Hasan Minhaj	just vanguard funds
01:09:11	Shaan Puri	yeah
01:09:12	Hasan Minhaj	But when I go on the internet and I start looking through your mentions, and I go through your page or Sam's page, nobody's trying to mess with VTSAX. Like, you old man, you're not on the Solana tip. How do I...?
01:09:25	Shaan Puri	how do you navigate that
01:09:26	Hasan Minhaj	Figure, discern truth, ontological truth, reality, and light from just this banter. This is just never-ending.
01:09:35	Shaan Puri	yeah
01:09:35	Hasan Minhaj	up down nature of noise
01:09:37	Shaan Puri	So here's how I do it. Alright, here's how I would break it down: I'd say, "What do I want?" Some people are saying, "I'm trying to become Baby, I'm trying to become Kevin Hart, I'm trying to do whatever. I'm trying to have this mega mega empire, $1,000,000,000 status." So some people say, "Look, I came from nothing and I got this thing now. I need a certain level of security and safety." That's what makes me happy—knowing I can never go down to 0. Yeah, knowing that I can never mess up and lose it all. It is safety for life for me and for my kids. What is that number?
01:10:04	Hasan Minhaj	yeah so you
01:10:04	Shaan Puri	Start to play with these numbers. You start to say, "What does life cost and what do I want?" Yeah, your burn... what are my goals?
01:10:09	Hasan Minhaj	with this
01:10:10	Shaan Puri	What's my burn right now? You first gotta take a lay of the land. I don't need any strategy without an objective. Any strategy is meant to get you to some objective. What most people do wrong is they're just picking strategies without really curating the objectives. Yeah, and why is that? Can I stand and defend why I believe that this is what I'm going for? Yeah, that this is my strategy. How do I get to the point where I know what I want and I can defend what I want to myself? Not to you, you know? Like, I can articulate it.
01:10:38	Hasan Minhaj	yeah
01:10:38	Shaan Puri	Actually, I've decided that and why I said no to these other plausible paths. They might be right for others, but they're not for me.
01:10:44	Hasan Minhaj	yeah
01:10:45	Shaan Puri	so you set your goal that way so that's the first
01:10:47	Hasan Minhaj	My goal is... my goal is two things, and I've identified them because I think about these things a long time. You know, being on tour is really good because you just start to... planes are great. You just have a...
01:10:55	Shaan Puri	lot of time to take a shower in the air
01:10:57	Hasan Minhaj	to think yeah and
01:10:58	Shaan Puri	one of
01:10:58	Hasan Minhaj	The things that I thought about were like... it's two things. To me, being a father and a husband means providing financial safety and security for my kids. You know, I grew up in a family... I don't want to give away too much, but money was always a thing that people in my family argued about. I never wanted that to be a thing here. It's a tough thing to do if you're an artist. Are you kidding me? Why did you pick that path? But it's what's honest to me. To me, what money and business represent is: okay, if I can earn enough so that, God forbid, this goes to shit, I have enough runway... and this is going to sound crazy, but for 10 years.
01:11:31	Shaan Puri	mhmm
01:11:31	Hasan Minhaj	Because I do deep work, it took me two and a half to three years to write this show. It took me a long time to put it together, and I hope the depth of that resonated with you and the audience. That's my dream.
01:11:44	Shaan Puri	like right
01:11:45	Hasan Minhaj	Yo, do you feel how much this meant to me? I hope you see it. I hope you feel it too. But in order to do that, I have to have runway room.
01:11:54	Shaan Puri	yes
01:11:55	Hasan Minhaj	I have to have two years to be able to hole up and write this movie, write this thing. I have a couple of projects that are now lined up after we shoot this Netflix special, but they've required a ton of time.
01:12:04	Shaan Puri	right
01:12:05	Hasan Minhaj	Time, you need financial capital to cover your burn. Yep, to cover... like I said, you know, my daughter, baby girl, she has glasses now.
01:12:12	Shaan Puri	escalating burn yeah
01:12:13	Hasan Minhaj	Yeah, and now there are all these additional things. My mom, her knees are going; she needs knee replacement surgery. You know, I'm the eldest. These are real things, and I put it as like, "No, I need that burn for, you know, 10 years."
01:12:25	Shaan Puri	right but
01:12:25	Hasan Minhaj	now we live in a world where we're not even gonna be able to retire
01:12:27	Shaan Puri	yeah so I
01:12:28	Hasan Minhaj	I have to start thinking, "No, I gotta be Rocky. I wanna be Mel Brooks. I wanna be doing this, you know? Hopefully, Dick Gregory... I'm doing this until I die." Right? I love that Dick Gregory died with dates on the books. He was gonna do "Rooster Teeth" theaters in Sunnyvale, California. Bro, living legend, man! And I'm like, what an inspired life.
01:12:45	Shaan Puri	right
01:12:46	Hasan Minhaj	so many people are like well he wasn't the biggest comedian I'm like bro you lost the plot yeah
01:12:49	Shaan Puri	exactly
01:12:50	Hasan Minhaj	He's still playing the game. What a beautiful thing in his eighties, right? God, please give me life so I can continue to do that. So, that's the burn. What's that number? Maybe 10 years, 5 years? I've told my accountant this. Then the other thing is, what is the financial capital that I need to continue to imprint my vision upon the world? The show that you saw, "The Burn to Run It," man, is almost $40 a week just in labor costs, trucking costs, getting it from venue to venue. It's a lot. Now, to do that at scale, I'm talking about 20 shows for 6 months, 8 months, 9 months, a year. I gotta take it over to Europe, to Asia, to Australia, all of those things. It's like I want to be able to count on...
01:13:36	Shaan Puri	creative capital
01:13:37	Hasan Minhaj	Yeah, only on myself. I'm not asking for a network, you know? It's so funny... like one of the things that artists now complain about is like, "The studio said this," and I'm like, "Hey man, we gotta shift." Yeah, to now being like, "No, no, no, we have that now." In order to do that, I gotta be able to make money not at a 1x, yes 2x, 5x. I have to start making moves that can potentially 10x it because it can then cover that burn. So those are my two [goals].
01:14:02	Shaan Puri	missions yep
01:14:02	Hasan Minhaj	How do I continue to do King's Jesters and take care of my family? I'm not trying to be a billionaire; it's just those two things.
01:14:08	Shaan Puri	so that that will give you a number or set of our range
01:14:11	Hasan Minhaj	yeah
01:14:11	Shaan Puri	Then you say, "Alright, what are the strategies that could get me to that?" You're not going to know them yourself because you're like, "Well, I spent 10 years getting fucking amazing at comedy, not the money game." Right? The money game is its own game. I'm going to respect that. The same way when I'm like, "Dude, I want to do comedy." Yeah, I know comedy means it's a game that I understand. I know what it was like to be an absolute beginner in business. I got my ass kicked for 8 years straight. Yeah, it's probably going to feel very similar if I ever wanted to, like, even just have the experience of going and doing a 5-minute comedy set.
01:14:38	Hasan Minhaj	I'm probably gonna have to
01:14:38	Shaan Puri	Get my ass kicked for like a year or two, yeah, to just be able to go do that. Yeah, so you gotta say, "Alright, how do I find somebody who's gonna do that?" I need somebody who I need more than they need me.
01:14:48	Hasan Minhaj	yeah
01:14:48	Shaan Puri	That'd be a great thing to have, right? Because a lot of people who need you, they need you for the clout, they need you for the money, they need you for many things. So, you need to find somebody who doesn't really need you. They're happy to help; they're happy to offer. They get something out of it. It has to be a mutual exchange.
01:15:01	Hasan Minhaj	yeah
01:15:02	Shaan Puri	But they're good already. That's why I like hanging out with people who are already successful. When I go to them, they're not trying to dig in, "Oh yeah, here's a business idea. By the way, can I get some advisor shares? Can I get some equity?" It's like, well, they don't need that because they're already playing the game at a higher level in the money game. They don't need me for money. So I can trust their advice from that sense because they're not looking for that. Then you get a bunch of strategies. You say, "Alright, here's my safety playbook. I want this amount of money that's in something like Vanguard low-cost ETFs that's expected to grow at 7%." I could chart that out and say, "Alright, that's what that looks like over 10 years."
01:15:37	Hasan Minhaj	yeah
01:15:37	Shaan Puri	then I need my high risk high reward part of the portfolio that's that's the eth that's the
01:15:42	Hasan Minhaj	And I've read those books. Like, Jason Calacanis has a book where he's just like, "Hey, take $100,000 and turn it into $100." Let me ask you this: Is that real?
01:15:48	Shaan Puri	that part I do not believe is real I think that'll be very misguided
01:15:52	Hasan Minhaj	And I don't know... you know, my whole thing is, you can like it or not like my comedy, whatever. But I'm trying to meet people where they're at, right? I love people, bro. I never want to lose what I call the "cost of milk" energy. If you ask my dad how much milk is, my dad will be like, "In Manhattan at the bodega or at Costco over in New Jersey, if we go over the bridge, he'll tell you the cost of milk." I love that! Knowing how much gas is, knowing how much it is to lease or buy a Corolla... it's why I drive an Odyssey.
01:16:24	Shaan Puri	right it's like
01:16:24	Hasan Minhaj	Man, I want to mess with people. I love people. So, for me, one of the biggest things that I'm trying to do is, if I can learn, perhaps even through my comedy, through my gift, I can help meet the people where they're at. I'm never going to run with the A16Z's, right? Maybe, who knows, they may want me to perform at their birthday party or something with Drake, you know?
01:16:44	Shaan Puri	the kids' 12th birthday party just oh
01:16:46	Hasan Minhaj	They really like Hassan. Come, come, do 10 minutes. But I'm talking about, like, man, that I'm speaking to. It's funny. I had this joke that I did on Patriot Act where I made fun of Bitcoin. The dudes who tell me to invest in Bitcoin, I said, "I believe in Bitcoin. I just don't believe in the people that tell me to get Bitcoin." Because it's all my homies that told me to take out a subprime mortgage in 2008. I'm like, "Travis, get..."
01:17:09	Shaan Puri	a property yeah
01:17:10	Hasan Minhaj	you wanted me to you wanted me to take a second mortgage oh wait
01:17:13	Shaan Puri	yeah
01:17:13	Hasan Minhaj	and why are you just like all like
01:17:15	Shaan Puri	yeah
01:17:15	Hasan Minhaj	Diamond hands now? Yeah, you're "diamond hands" and me to death or whatever. And they're like, "You dumb motherfucker, look, it's at $60K now."
01:17:20	Shaan Puri	yeah
01:17:21	Hasan Minhaj	And the comic in me is like, "Bro, keep it 100. Keep it 100 with me. Use your government. Look me in the eye and tell me honestly."
01:17:28	Shaan Puri	right
01:17:28	Hasan Minhaj	The reality is, you have $10,000 in the bank. The cost of living in Milpitas is too high, and you need that money to 200x.
01:17:37	Shaan Puri	right
01:17:37	Hasan Minhaj	And so, you are betting everything on this. That's why my jokes are getting to you now. Look me in the eye and use your government name and tell me, am I lying?
01:17:47	Shaan Puri	so I think that am
01:17:48	Hasan Minhaj	I being real check me if I'm wrong check me sean
01:17:52	Shaan Puri	you're not wrong you're not wrong what I would say is but maybe
01:17:56	Hasan Minhaj	I'm misguided maybe what there's
01:17:58	Shaan Puri	a certain level of skepticism you have that is absolutely needed
01:18:01	Hasan Minhaj	yeah
01:18:01	Shaan Puri	And you have to get to the root of why you are saying this. Do you know what you're talking about? What is in it for you if I do this? You don't want to be blind, following the blind. One thing that works for me is like a hack. When I was doing that sushi restaurant thing I told you about, we were trying to find the perfect location. They said in restaurants, location is everything. So we thought, "Oh, we have to be location experts." We were scouting, doing all this real estate research, looking up locations, and we just realized, "Hey, Chipotle puts like a billion dollars into picking the right location. Why don't we just go right next to wherever Chipotle is?" And that's actually the strategy that Quiznos and a whole bunch of other brands have used.
01:18:36	Hasan Minhaj	got it
01:18:37	Shaan Puri	Noodles and Company. If you go look next to a Chipotle, there'll be a Noodles and Company there, or there'll be a Subway there. They all just... they're like, "Well, they do all the research and they're an attraction." So, like, "Yeah, we just go next to them. We could piggyback because they're putting their skin in the game. They're not just telling us this is a good location."
01:18:50	Hasan Minhaj	yeah
01:18:51	Shaan Puri	they are putting down their roots they're investing money yeah which means this is probably a good idea
01:18:54	Hasan Minhaj	yeah
01:18:55	Shaan Puri	So, I have a couple buddies who I'm like, "Look, you've been successful in this game. What are you putting your money into now? And what ratios are you putting? How much of your money are you putting into these things, and how do you think about them?" I triangulate between 4 people like that.
01:19:10	Hasan Minhaj	yeah
01:19:10	Shaan Puri	I say, "Okay, now I have a base understanding of where they are putting their skin in the game." They're not telling me to do it because they get something out of it. They are putting themselves in, investing in this, and they're doing a certain amount of diligence in a space that they understand. So, you're able to get... there's an intelligent way to copy and then follow. Yeah, there's an intelligent way to follow, and then there's an unintelligent way to follow as well. The unintelligent way to follow is, "I heard some stuff from some guy who's got an incentive to sell me this thing." I don't really understand why he's telling me to do this, and I can't really ask him. I don't know what percentage of his portfolio is in this, you know? So, I can chill with some random cryptocurrency I'm excited about.
01:19:43	Hasan Minhaj	yeah
01:19:44	Shaan Puri	People are... oh, you said that was great. Yeah, I put half a percent of my net worth into it because I understood it in this way and I thought I had this risk-reward. You put 30% of your net worth into it. I never told you to do that. Yeah, yeah, I never told you to do anything. But you interpreted X as Y. So there's an intelligent and an unintelligent way to do it. But that's kind of my approach of how I would do this. I would say, "Alright, there's a money game you gotta learn. I'm gonna learn along the way." Yeah, I'm gonna speed up my learning curve by partnering with people who already are playing this game at a higher level than me. They don't need any... they don't need the money from me. They're not getting a cut of me.
01:20:15	Hasan Minhaj	yeah
01:20:15	Shaan Puri	But they're happy to do it because it's cool to know a comedian. You know, I'm so sure what it would take. It's just fun, right? So, that's how I would approach it. If I was the other thing you said, which is important, the artists have to get leverage. Last night, when we were leaving the show, I was talking to my sister. I said, "Oh, it's amazing!" My dad was like, "I can't believe you bought that beer!" Yeah, at the show, so expensive. That beer is a dollar at Costco. I was like, "I know, I understand that." I'm having an experience at the show here. I wanted to have a beer and enjoy the show. That was worth $13 to me. I know the beer only costs, which is crazy, a dollar. $13! So, he's like, "I can't believe so many people pay to come to the show. How can they afford a show like this?" I said, "Well, people care about having fun. This is their budget. I understand you don't allocate your budget to that, but they do." He was like, "You know, this guy must be doing amazing because he did 8 shows or whatever in the Bay Area. He's got a Netflix show." I said, "Yeah, he's doing great. But also think about it. I don't know what your Netflix deal is, but I know that if I was offered a Netflix deal, I'd have to do it for $0 essentially, right? Netflix kind of knows that I have to say yes to have a Netflix show." So, my bargaining power is probably very low.
01:21:26	Hasan Minhaj	yeah
01:21:27	Shaan Puri	So, even though it's a big deal and it might do well, my negotiating power in that situation—my leverage—is low. Versus this show that you own, your leverage is higher. So, it's like I say, you know, just because somebody has certain things you do for distribution and fame, there are certain things you do to monetize.
01:21:43	Hasan Minhaj	and that was the comedy central deal like you're on the daily show you're on snl right to be on a cultural institution
01:21:48	Shaan Puri	exactly they get your name built
01:21:49	Hasan Minhaj	yeah
01:21:50	Shaan Puri	they know like you can they can pay you whatever
01:21:52	Hasan Minhaj	yeah
01:21:52	Shaan Puri	And so, how do you get the leverage back? That's where there's this idea—by the way, I’m stealing this from someone—why wouldn't comedians create... oh, so everybody's getting big, big checks from Netflix and others to go do a special now?
01:22:05	Hasan Minhaj	yeah
01:22:06	Shaan Puri	And okay, here's to... you know, I think Chappelle, whatever this sounds like, $30,000,000 or $20,000,000. I don't know what the numbers are, but it's in that range. Very big upfront payday. Yeah, they know they're making the money on the back end; otherwise, they wouldn't offer that kind of money.
01:22:19	Hasan Minhaj	But also, a key data point you need to know is that you cannot use Ronaldo's deal, LeBron's deal, Steph Curry's UltraMax deal, or Chappelle's UltraMax deal. Why? Because the delta between who the capital of Marcus is... Number one, you gotta see what Buddy Hield on the Sacramento Kings is making right now. Buddy's solid, but what is he? Is he top 10 in the league? Is he top 15 in the league? That's the real question. Again, I talk about the Costco milk thing. That's the real working-class artist. If you can't be Kevin Hart, if you can't be Jeff Bezos, if you can't be Chamath or whatever, and you can't ball out at a billion, then what are the moves you make?
01:22:57	Shaan Puri	exactly
01:22:58	Hasan Minhaj	That's why I'm trying to operate my life. Hey, assume you won't be Will Smith, right? You won't be the biggest movie star in the world. And the capital markets are going to pay you at a 1,000x. Say they pay you at 10x. What moves do you then make to have a healthy, happy, artistic career for the rest of your life? Right? That's my mission. I want to continue to make art, yeah, honestly, for the rest of my life.
01:23:16	Shaan Puri	yeah so I think well I'll answer this
01:23:18	Hasan Minhaj	but but let's but we're but the
01:23:20	Shaan Puri	The idea, real quick, is that if the artists got together and created the streaming technology, now it's actually pretty standardized. Off the shelf, you can have a white-labeled version of Netflix.
01:23:32	Hasan Minhaj	yes
01:23:32	Shaan Puri	in 6 months
01:23:33	Hasan Minhaj	yes
01:23:34	Shaan Puri	the thing is you need draws and so like if somehow and this is always the coordination problem
01:23:39	Hasan Minhaj	yeah
01:23:39	Shaan Puri	If you could somehow coordinate the key artists to say, "Hey, we can own this motherfucker. We can actually create our own platform that's a comedy streaming service that people pay for."
01:23:48	Hasan Minhaj	yeah
01:23:49	Shaan Puri	And we're going to share the dividends sort of like meritocratically. Meaning, if I come to watch your show, if I subscribe to the service because of Hudson's show, you're going to get the bounty of my joining. Then, if I also watch, you know, three other artists, they're going to get some cut of the subscription. What crypto and other things are enabling is basically a creator-owned platform. Somebody's going to do this. I don't know if it's in comedy or if it's in some other field.
01:24:14	Hasan Minhaj	music or something
01:24:15	Shaan Puri	music what's
01:24:16	Hasan Minhaj	triller triller is kinda like that right
01:24:17	Shaan Puri	No, it's the same thing. It's a company. Then they cut checks, get the artist to come on board, and then they pimp out the artist to go get customers.
01:24:23	Hasan Minhaj	yeah
01:24:23	Shaan Puri	And the artist feels like they're getting a good deal because they're cash-rich but they're equity-poor. So they're getting... and you know, they might cut a deal with Jake Paul or something because the trailer has nothing to lose. So they're like, "Yeah, you get 2%."
01:24:33	Hasan Minhaj	yeah
01:24:33	Shaan Puri	you know they'll cut that to 1 person yeah
01:24:35	Hasan Minhaj	what
01:24:35	Shaan Puri	I'm talking about is if chappell kevin hart if you could somehow coordinate the forces that be
01:24:39	Hasan Minhaj	yeah
01:24:41	Shaan Puri	To say, "Let's create a platform. Let's only put our art on this platform." Comedy is one of those things where the fans will pay to jump the fence to...
01:24:47	Hasan Minhaj	get the thing yeah
01:24:49	Shaan Puri	and they're willing to pay to also support their their
01:24:51	Hasan Minhaj	music audience I have the answer to that
01:24:53	Shaan Puri	So, that would be a platform that could eventually be valued at easily a single-digit billion dollars. That would be creator-owned. Then, as you cycle out and the next comedian comes up, they would just basically join the syndicate.
01:25:05	Hasan Minhaj	yeah
01:25:05	Shaan Puri	They'd be pumping their fan base into it, and they would be getting their proportionate share based on how much audience they're bringing to the platform.
01:25:11	Hasan Minhaj	So, I'm presenting. Now, I'd love your analysis on this. Again, I don't know; I'm trying to learn. But I'll just share the things that I've learned from being in the circle. You know, shout out to my man Az. Az was, you know, Chappelle's doing all these summer camps in Ohio. One of my comedian friends, Az, I think you've met him. He was saying he asked Dave, and I love Az. Az is like, he's always been a futurist.
01:25:35	Shaan Puri	of remy right
01:25:36	Hasan Minhaj	Yeah, and he's always been a futurist. He's always been 20 years ahead. I tell Az, "You got the Al Gore problem in 2000."
01:25:42	Shaan Puri	he's like the internet right right right right right
01:25:44	Hasan Minhaj	shut up
01:25:44	Shaan Puri	yeah you look like an idiot in 20 years ahead
01:25:46	Hasan Minhaj	be 20 years ahead you wanna be maybe like 3 3 to 5
01:25:48	Shaan Puri	years ahead yeah yeah yeah
01:25:49	Hasan Minhaj	Yeah, you want to be that guy with the Oculus, and you're like, "Bro, this sucks." That's always my thing. I was like, "I don't want to be the Oculus dude."
01:25:55	Shaan Puri	yeah you know what I mean you're gonna
01:25:57	Hasan Minhaj	You're gonna watch Jungle Book on Oculus? I'm like, "It's giving me a headache. Cut this shit out." Anyways, he goes up to Dave and he says, "Dave, man, come on, bro. You're the GOAT. You're number one. You could just put it up on DaveChappelle.com and everybody will pay you $5, $10, or $15. Maybe a Radiohead style, a $100 Nipsey Hussle, right? Proud to pay." And Louie did that. Yeah, Dave's like this. He goes, "New fans? What about new fans?" Hmm... What that Netflix billboard gives you is it pumps that tile out in front of you. Yep, whether you like it or not. I don't know Sam Parr. Yeah, I slid in Sam's DMs. Sam, I slid in your DMs; you didn't hit me back. But when he's with his wife and they open up the app, and they see my tile and they see my raccoon-on-Adderall face, Sam now has to reckon with that. Then Sam, he's sitting on the couch, he pulls out his phone, and then he sees you retweet my thing. He's like, "Man, this Indian dude, what's he talking about?"
01:26:58	Shaan Puri	let me
01:26:58	Hasan Minhaj	See this guy? Boom! I've now picked up Sam Parr. Mm-hmm. I know I'm a convert with you. Your cousins are going to talk about me. Your sister's going to talk about me. Whatever. But I'm talking about new fans.
01:27:08	Shaan Puri	mhmm you know
01:27:09	Hasan Minhaj	What I mean is the distribution they do to get new fans on board. That's what this "Proud to Pay" movement doesn't have.
01:27:16	Shaan Puri	right
01:27:17	Hasan Minhaj	So, everybody's told me, "Hey, start an online shop." I'm like, "Cool, I'll do homecoming king Loki Yak Kangi shirts." What about your three other coworkers, the dude in that room, right? I want them to know who I am. Right? So that's what, you know, Louie put out his last special, "Sincerely, Louis CK." Did you see it?
01:27:34	Shaan Puri	it mhmm
01:27:35	Hasan Minhaj	No, why didn't you see it? Because it was just a closed network between him and his direct fans. People couldn't get outraged about it; they couldn't write about it, which would then get you to... it would titillate you. You'd be like, "I'm going to watch it," right? Which would then get you to watch it, and he'd pick you up as a new fan.
01:27:51	Shaan Puri	Yeah, it had... yeah, exactly. That's 100% true. It's closed highs. It has to be paired with a pretty aggressive clips strategy, right? So, like, one of the ways you grew was not because I watched 160 minutes of the correspondence, like, the speech. It was a 45-minute long speech, right?
01:28:07	Hasan Minhaj	27 minutes on that
01:28:08	Shaan Puri	27 minutes. It's because a couple of those clips get on Instagram, they get shared, they're on TikTok, and they go viral.
01:28:13	Hasan Minhaj	yeah
01:28:14	Shaan Puri	And Twitter, Instagram, TikTok... that's where you'd have to basically pair it with that. That'd be the only way you could get the exposure to say, "There's great stuff! We're gonna use YouTube, we're gonna use TikTok, we're gonna use whatever." And we're actually gonna pop. They're gonna take the best stuff. Yeah, we're gonna dangle it over there. We're gonna let that be shareable.
01:28:29	Hasan Minhaj	yeah
01:28:30	Shaan Puri	it still may not work to actually like assimilate the new fan it might like that's why
01:28:34	Hasan Minhaj	that's the
01:28:35	Shaan Puri	There's that and the coordination problem, which is the biggest. The people you want are getting overpaid by the networks. Yeah, because that's the strategy of...
01:28:44	Hasan Minhaj	the network lock them in
01:28:45	Shaan Puri	Lock them in, and then every other artist has to follow. Yeah, at almost below market rate because this is where all the headliners are. You want to be where they are. Yeah, that's what feels like a first-class thing as an artist.
01:28:55	Hasan Minhaj	If I'm in the airport and people ask, "What do you do? You're a comedian?" I go, "Yeah, yeah, yeah." And then I go, "How do I see you?" I go...
01:29:00	Shaan Puri	go download dazn yeah and yeah and I'm
01:29:03	Hasan Minhaj	Just like Netflix... they go, "Netflix?" Yeah, because Netflix has that "dumb factor." Just like, "Damn, I man, my kids watch CoComelon, I watch Netflix, I watch blah blah blah." So the thing is, Amazon, Disney, and Netflix right now, they're running it. And I'm trying to think... to me, I'm trying to have a barbell approach to it. So if you follow me on Instagram, I put out content, I put out videos. Tyler, my videographer, and I put out stuff, but I'm trying to barbell it. I'm trying to figure out how do we start to monetize those things now. The most, the clearest sign of that that I've seen, which has a low cost of entry, has been podcasting. Comedians podcasting, and people like Tom Segura, people like Joe Rogan, people like Andrew Schulz... those guys have been able to call me, call your daddy, you know, people in that pocket. Dax Shepard, people in that space have been able to build up their own independent platforms and have more leverage. Here's my issue with it: I find it very risky to put up every single thought and idea that I have in real time on the internet. I'm gonna be candid with everybody listening; I have no hidden thing here. I'm just being transparent. The reason why I'm honest with you is I love what you do. I think what you do is honest and sincere, and I think artists need to start to talk to people in your space to be like, "You understand business, we understand art. How can we work together? How do these two worlds now merge?" Right, without being part of a multinational conglomerate and then have business affairs and lawyers and all that stuff muck it up. That's the interesting new world that I'm really excited about, and that's what I'm trying to figure out.
01:30:47	Shaan Puri	I love it yeah I don't know how much time you guys I
01:30:49	Hasan Minhaj	got time bro
01:30:50	Shaan Puri	I wanna be respectful no
01:30:51	Hasan Minhaj	I got time
01:30:51	Shaan Puri	are the cameras still rolling are they yeah perfect
01:30:55	Hasan Minhaj	yeah
01:30:56	Shaan Puri	finish up with a couple of things you do you listen to the pod I don't know if you actually listen to the pod
01:31:00	Hasan Minhaj	I listen to the pod yeah
01:31:01	Shaan Puri	amazing
01:31:01	Hasan Minhaj	yeah
01:31:02	Shaan Puri	When you listen to it, there's always the beautiful part when a guest listens to the show. Most guests don't, but if they do, the best part is there's a moment on the podcast when you're at home and you're hearing people talk about stuff. You're screaming either, "You don't get it! Talk about this instead!" or "No, I disagree!" They normally never get the mic; they just have to sit there and sort of punch air as we just drone on about whatever the hell we're talking about.
01:31:27	Hasan Minhaj	yeah yeah
01:31:27	Shaan Puri	What are those things that, when you're listening, you're like, "I would say this," or "I want to know about this," or "I want to talk about this"? What are those things for you, now that you’ve broken through the wall and you're here?
01:31:36	Hasan Minhaj	yeah for me I'll tell you the moment that I loved mhmm
01:31:41	Shaan Puri	and
01:31:41	Hasan Minhaj	By the way, this has been my ethos with comedy writing, and I learned it at The Daily Show. You can only tear something down, and this also works with movie writing and script writing. If you tear something down, you gotta pitch an alternative. Don't just criticize the idea; pitch an alternative, right? What's the alternative joke? What's the alternative take? Otherwise, sit down... sit on the sideline. You're not in the game. So, I'll tell you what I love. Actually, there's... I don't have a ton of criticism. I've actually asked those questions. The one that I loved is you guys had this run that you and Sam did. There were two things that I sincerely loved. You guys had this thing up: "If you had a million dollars, what would you do with it today?"
01:32:21	Shaan Puri	mhmm
01:32:21	Hasan Minhaj	I loved that! Then there was another thing that you did that was really cool. It was vulnerable, and again, the reason why it resonated with me is at a level of honesty and transparency in it. You guys were candid about your asset portfolio distributions, right? And Sam was like, "I'm a little bit more..."
01:32:38	Shaan Puri	conservative
01:32:38	Hasan Minhaj	conservative and you're like I'm more
01:32:41	Shaan Puri	risky right
01:32:42	Hasan Minhaj	and there's two moments I love
01:32:44	Shaan Puri	it was
01:32:44	Hasan Minhaj	The thing is, what would I do with $1,000,000? There's a moment that you had where you're like, "I want to move through the world in a way... what if I was worth $100,000,000?" I want to build my days around that. Yeah, but where did you get that from? So those are two things I love.
01:32:57	Shaan Puri	those are
01:32:57	Hasan Minhaj	Just two things I love, but I want to actually tag that with a question: Where did you get that attitude? That like, that BDE? That's a... that's a big dick energy.
01:33:04	Shaan Puri	I had a thing I was talking to when we got acquired. We went to Twitch.
01:33:09	Hasan Minhaj	yeah
01:33:10	Shaan Puri	And they brought in this guy who became, like, I have an issue reporter straight to the CEO. Then they brought in this guy who became the Chief Product Officer.
01:33:19	Hasan Minhaj	yeah
01:33:19	Shaan Puri	And he was like, "Twitch is like this gamer, young Gen Z, millennial type of product." Yeah, this guy comes in with gray hair, doesn't play video games, you know? He was like at Google in 2003 or some stuff like that.
01:33:31	Hasan Minhaj	yeah
01:33:31	Shaan Puri	and he's he was obviously smart and accomplished in the tech world but seemed like so out of touch with the product
01:33:36	Hasan Minhaj	yeah
01:33:36	Shaan Puri	So, people were like, "Oh, why do we have this guy?" Internally, there were rumblings in the engineering ranks that were just sort of like, "This guy doesn't get it." The people already hate upper management in general. They always think that they are out of touch and making bad, bad decisions.
01:33:47	Hasan Minhaj	yeah
01:33:47	Shaan Puri	So there was just like skepticism. "Is this guy gonna get it?" And he would ask questions in meetings that were like, "Oh... do you know what Fortnite is?" Like, wait, wait... how are you 80? How do you have this job if...?
01:33:58	Hasan Minhaj	you don't know like he didn't know what minecraft was
01:34:01	Shaan Puri	Use Discord for... exactly. Yeah, but he was just... he didn't care. He was like, "I'm asking questions to learn. Why would I ask? I'm obviously... if I'm asking the question, I don't know." I think it's important to know. Yeah, you think I should know this, so I'm just gonna learn it right here, like, instantly. He didn't care.
01:34:13	Hasan Minhaj	yeah
01:34:13	Shaan Puri	He asked a bunch of questions when he sat down with me. He was like, "Let's do a one-on-one." He said, "Alright, it's career planning or whatever." Then he asked, "So, what do you want to do?" Basically, when you sell your company, there's this deal with a vesting structure. You get some cash upfront, and then after one year, you're going to get your next big check. After two years, you get an extra check, and if you make it to year three, you get the last bit. I didn't make it to year three; I only got to two. But wow!
01:34:38	Hasan Minhaj	at somewhere self imposed or you guys kind of
01:34:40	Shaan Puri	oh yeah I was just like this is enough I wanna go do other shit
01:34:42	Hasan Minhaj	yeah
01:34:42	Shaan Puri	I'm surprised I even got to 2. Like, one I knew I would do because one locked in my family security. So I was like, "Right, I'm gonna suck this up, and I don't care how bad this sucks. I'm gonna get that year. I'm gonna lock in."
01:34:52	Hasan Minhaj	get the bag
01:34:53	Shaan Puri	family is good yeah I'm gonna get the bag and so I was there and he was like what
01:34:56	Hasan Minhaj	is the number if you don't mind me asking what is that number in the bay area
01:34:59	Shaan Puri	I've been so far in the... I had always said $6,000,000. I said $6,000,000 is where your money works for you. Every [dollar] up till then, you're working for money. Your money works for you at $6,000,000. Why did I say [that]?
01:35:10	Hasan Minhaj	why 6
01:35:11	Shaan Puri	Because I said, "Alright, you work backwards." So I calculated my burn rate. At the time, I was like, "We're spending about $20,000 a month," which was my monthly expenses. I said, "Okay, well, I don't know if it's going to go up or down, but no, I'm sorry, it's not going to go down. It's probably only going to go up." It's very hard to give things up once you have certain services, lifestyles, or a certain size house. You don't want to plan to downsize; I want a plan to buffer in some growth. I said, "Okay, so that gets you to $240,000 a year." So let's say $200,000. How do I make it so that just the interest on the money I own, so just the gains on that money being invested in the market, and I don't need like a home run? Yeah, just like...
01:35:49	Hasan Minhaj	if I'm making and
01:35:50	Shaan Puri	Yeah, if I'm making 7% or let's call it 4 or 5%, that's the target. So then you just do the math. Like, as the rule is, I don't do public math, but you take 240,000 and divide it by 5% or whatever, and that gives you some number. I forgot what the calculations were, but I know the number came out to about $6,000,000.
01:36:07	Hasan Minhaj	k
01:36:07	Shaan Puri	Let's say, alright, at $6,000,000 invested, that would yield an amount of money that will pay for our lifestyle. Rather than me going and working a job or doing something that requires income to pay for our lifestyle.
01:36:18	Hasan Minhaj	yeah
01:36:18	Shaan Puri	So, I came up with this number, and some people were like, "That's too low." Some people were like, "Why is your monthly expenses so high?" I said, "Look, I like to live a certain way. I'm going to try to live that way. I'm not telling you you need to spend this much money." Yeah, yeah.
01:36:29	Hasan Minhaj	I'm gonna I'm gonna get chipotle with avocado I like avocado
01:36:32	Shaan Puri	Exactly. The guac's extra. I said, "Give me 2 servings." That's what I wanted to be able to... yeah, not have any weight on that, right? So I was like, "Alright, well that's the..." I'm trying to...
01:36:37	Hasan Minhaj	live that
01:36:38	Shaan Puri	"Guac life" and so that became a target number. I said, "Alright, I want to hit that number," and I said, "Okay, so I need to secure that." Winding back to this question of how I got this mindset... So I talked to the guy, he takes me in and he says, "What are your current plans?"
01:36:56	Hasan Minhaj	so you got to 6th though
01:36:57	Shaan Puri	I got to the 6th, got it, and I said, "Alright, well how do I post tax?" Right? It's the 6th; you have to have it. You have to have it exactly. Yeah, so I said, "Alright." Well, he goes, "When you think about your career, what are you gonna do?" I knew that the right answer was to say, "Oh, you know what? I love it here at Twitch, and I would love to stay here forever. I could see myself being you someday." But the reality was, I couldn't. I didn't. I was having fun because I made it my way, but I was like, "This is not where I wanna be forever."
01:37:21	Hasan Minhaj	yeah
01:37:21	Shaan Puri	I'm just going to be honest with this guy. I'm not going to tell him, and it's a weird conversation. You're basically telling your boss, "I don't plan to be here for very long," right? Which is, in a way, saying...
01:37:30	Hasan Minhaj	right
01:37:31	Shaan Puri	Don't invest in me. You know, like, don't promote me. Don't give me opportunities. Give it to the next guy because he cares. It was kind of a weird thing, but I decided I'm going to be honest. So I told him. He goes, "Aris, what do you want to do then?" He's like, "Then we don't need to talk about this Twitch shit. Tell me what you want to do." I said, "Well, first I'm doing this so that then I can go do this thing I want to do." He goes, "I don't believe all that." I go, "What? You don't believe I want to do this?" He goes, "No, I don't believe that strategy of life. I don't believe in this life plan of 'I'm going to do all the stuff I don't want to do so that then I can do all these things I do want to do.'"
01:37:59	Hasan Minhaj	you're mortgaging for a future that may not happen
01:38:01	Shaan Puri	Exactly. This is never gonna come. He's like, "I've been around the block." People who have that plan, it's very rare that you ever do the thing you want to do. Is it much better to just do the thing you want to do? Start that now. Don't spend 5 years doing the thing you don't want to do because it's a means to an end.
01:38:15	Hasan Minhaj	But then, what you're talking about is that if you had approached that, you would have never perhaps gotten that 6.
01:38:21	Shaan Puri	Exactly. So, he had a different mindset. I said, "Alright, well, what does that look like?" He goes, "Why don't you just figure out what you want to do? Figure out what it requires, what amount of money, and what skills you'd need. Start accumulating those." So, that's actually where the six came in. I said, "Oh, I want to be able to wake up every day and do a certain amount of work, which is basically waking up and just working on whatever I was most interested in."
01:38:45	Hasan Minhaj	right
01:38:45	Shaan Puri	like I told you dude I wanna like I wanna do comedy sometime
01:38:48	Hasan Minhaj	let's do
01:38:48	Shaan Puri	I want to do these other things. I'm like, "Dude, why don't I make a song that just slaps?" Why don't I create a catchy song that seems like...
01:38:55	Hasan Minhaj	I wanna produce I wanna produce a record
01:38:57	Shaan Puri	Yeah, like I don't know anything about it, but wouldn't that be fun if I just made a catchy song that kind of hits? I'm not trying to be the best musician, but why not? Uh-huh. That was kind of my mindset. So along the way, again, I talked to my trainer and he goes, "If you want to have a certain thing, carry yourself like the guy who has that thing." Very simple, really.
01:39:33	Hasan Minhaj	the fake it till you make it thing
01:39:35	Shaan Puri	Not even "fake it till you make it." You believe you will feel a certain way when you have it.
01:39:40	Hasan Minhaj	right right right
01:39:41	Shaan Puri	That's why you want... So let's say you want $100,000,000, or $1,000,000,000, or whatever your number is—$5,000,000, $1,000,000. You believe you want that because you think you're going to feel a certain way when you have it.
01:39:51	Hasan Minhaj	yeah
01:39:52	Shaan Puri	So let's skip all the middle stuff and just believe that we have it. Let's carry ourselves like that. Let's have that feeling now. Don't pump the feeling until the end when you're 60.
01:40:02	Hasan Minhaj	okay
01:40:02	Shaan Puri	and maybe you've achieved your goals
01:40:04	Hasan Minhaj	So, what he's basically saying is that it's a level of confidence. Right? Confidence is security and not playing scared.
01:40:09	Shaan Puri	exactly
01:40:10	Hasan Minhaj	yeah yeah
01:40:10	Shaan Puri	then the the byproduct of that
01:40:12	Hasan Minhaj	You know, the comedy take I had on this—by the way, this is the way my brain works—is that the extremely wealthy and the homeless actually operate the same way.
01:40:19	Shaan Puri	which is what delusion which is what
01:40:20	Hasan Minhaj	Which is what? Anything I do isn't going to affect my life anyways. What are you going to do, the incredibly rich?
01:40:29	Shaan Puri	that's funny
01:40:29	Hasan Minhaj	and people who are like they
01:40:31	Shaan Puri	have the same mindset
01:40:32	Hasan Minhaj	Yeah, it's just like, "Hey, what are you gonna do to me? What can you take from me?"
01:40:38	Shaan Puri	right
01:40:38	Hasan Minhaj	They both actually operate that same way. Sometimes, it's people that are in that vast middle who fear either direction and think, "Oh, I cannot mess this up."
01:40:50	Shaan Puri	Yes, so the mindset is basically: don't wait. Waiting is the enemy. When you're waiting to feel good until you've achieved certain things, anytime you hear the word "wait," run! That's not the right strategy. So, it's like anytime you're waiting to do the thing you want to do, don't wait. That's kind of become my mindset; I just realized that.
01:41:10	Hasan Minhaj	got it you mean don't put it off
01:41:11	Shaan Puri	don't put it off
01:41:12	Hasan Minhaj	right
01:41:12	Shaan Puri	don't wait till x in order to have y that you really want
01:41:15	Hasan Minhaj	gotcha
01:41:16	Shaan Puri	So, if I want this feeling of security, relaxation, confidence, whatever, why am I waiting? Let me tap into that now. That became both... it had two benefits. There's the benefit, which is you feel better today. I thought, "I already have a win." Instead of feeling anxious, stressed, and worried, you're already feeling good. But there's also a strategy to it. When you carry yourself that way, you'd be surprised what kind of doors open for you and how people treat you differently. They treat you with the assumption of how you treat yourself. Why do you dress the way you dress? Why do you carry yourself the way you carry yourself? Because people will treat you differently. Life will give to you what you're putting out there.
01:41:58	Hasan Minhaj	feel it too like I like being fitted I like wearing like the jordans I like yeah
01:42:02	Shaan Puri	and it makes the immediate feeling which is already good
01:42:04	Hasan Minhaj	yeah
01:42:05	Shaan Puri	And then you get the actual... I think this Harvard guy called it the "happiness effect." He basically said most people wait until they achieve a thing before they feel happy. What happens is, you achieve that thing and then you just move the goalpost. "Yeah, well this is not enough. When I really have it, then I can do it." You know, and so this keeps moving the goalpost. Everything... he's like, not only is that obviously deferring the thing you want, which is bad, but he said there are studies that show the person who goes into the situation already feeling happy will perform better on the test. They will be better in the professional setting, have a higher likelihood of success, and will have more lucky breaks. That was one of the things they tested. They basically gave you a test and, you know, the third line of the instructions said, "Just go to the end, just type the letter 5 in."
01:42:49	Hasan Minhaj	you're done
01:42:50	Shaan Puri	Yeah, and the people who went in with a stress mindset were just trying to solve all the problems. They had to do the whole test. The people who went in relaxed and confident were more likely to observe that little line. So, oh, another break that goes my way.
01:43:03	Hasan Minhaj	right
01:43:03	Shaan Puri	you know like so I'm gonna skip to the end hand the test in I'm done
01:43:06	Hasan Minhaj	yeah
01:43:07	Shaan Puri	And so that's called... when I started to learn about this sort of like happiness effect. This idea that if you bring the future feeling you're chasing into the now, not only do you feel good now, but you actually have better results. I was like, "That's just the thing I want," right?
01:43:19	Hasan Minhaj	but it's also a mindset shift where you're operating different than sam sam's like I'm not gonna take those crazy best
01:43:24	Shaan Puri	sam's the opposite but why why is he the opposite
01:43:27	Hasan Minhaj	Yeah, so what I'm saying is Sam may look objectively at—or it's his subjective experience of—your financial situation and be like, "You can't afford that. You can't afford to start this like $1,000,000 fund with just randos off the internet and start betting things." Yeah, why are you doing that? You could lose it.
01:43:45	Shaan Puri	Yeah, it served him well. I think there are many ways to win.
01:43:50	Hasan Minhaj	what I'm trying to do is get you guys to beef I'm trying to get you I'm joking I'm joking
01:43:54	Shaan Puri	I'm choosing I'm
01:43:54	Hasan Minhaj	actually curious
01:43:55	Shaan Puri	Play style... There's this great Conor McGregor quote where he goes, "Look, you're gonna feel some kind of way anyways, right? Like, any moment you're feeling some kind of way." So he's just like, "Why not feel unstoppable? Why not feel super confident?" Yeah, it's the same sort of thing. There are many ways to win, but you do get to choose. Sam's way to win, and many successful entrepreneurs, is the same way: "Chip on my shoulder. My dad never loved me. People doubted me." And that drives me. That's why I'm successful. They'll tell you this proudly, and I hear it, and I'm just like, "Man, you sound like you've been suffering for a long time. You didn't have to do all that," right?
01:44:33	Hasan Minhaj	yeah yeah
01:44:34	Shaan Puri	I'm I'm glad it worked for you but also like the toll was high on that highway
01:44:39	Hasan Minhaj	right
01:44:39	Shaan Puri	You paid an expensive vig, which was every day. You were focusing on the grind, the grind set mindset. You were focusing on proving people wrong and how right you were, you know, the doubters, and how you had to like kill yourself to make this work. Well, I know people who do it the other way. So let's agree that both can happen.
01:44:56	Hasan Minhaj	Yeah, let's also do a quick delineation. When you said you're moving like you're worth $100 million, so you're not...
01:45:03	Shaan Puri	I don't make size bets like obviously there's a cause of gravity
01:45:07	Hasan Minhaj	No, but there's a way to move to be like, "Hey, because I'm serious." There are people that may be listening that are just like, "Let me get that Rolex Daytona."
01:45:14	Shaan Puri	right
01:45:15	Hasan Minhaj	let me feel that way
01:45:16	Shaan Puri	right
01:45:18	Hasan Minhaj	If it's $100 million, then it's probably a Rolls Royce Phantom. It's probably a... you know what I mean? You could have a Maserati, a Ducati, whatever that thing may be. You're not making those things, are you?
01:45:26	Shaan Puri	yes and no so okay things that matter like I hired a personal chef
01:45:29	Hasan Minhaj	okay
01:45:30	Shaan Puri	that's something that really the only like the all true wealthy typically do
01:45:33	Hasan Minhaj	okay
01:45:33	Shaan Puri	I was like, "No, this matters to me. This is the number one thing I want." I think it helps me and my family be healthy. We don't have to stress out about making food all the time for our daughter, who's really picky, and she keeps throwing it away. We have to remake dinner.
01:45:44	Hasan Minhaj	right
01:45:45	Shaan Puri	I said, "This will improve the quality of my life. I don't care if we can afford it; I'm gonna get it, and then I'm gonna afford it." Right? Because I'm not like... I know I believe in my ability to go get that money.
01:45:56	Hasan Minhaj	yeah
01:45:56	Shaan Puri	so I will not limit myself in the things that I really care about yeah
01:45:59	Hasan Minhaj	yeah it's a true belief it's something that you really want for you and your family
01:46:03	Shaan Puri	I truly wanted it, and I'm not going to wait again. I was waiting, and I said, "Oh, I identified all the spots in my life where I was waiting." I realized I have to get rid of waiting. That's the thing I really want, and I'm not waiting for it anymore. I'm going to do it now. Got it? But do I go and just spend outside of... like outside?
01:46:18	Hasan Minhaj	of my means your means
01:46:19	Shaan Puri	What I care about, or what I have... like, no, I don't. I don't because I also don't want to be owned by those things. Every time we buy something, you know, it now owns you as much as you own it. That bill owns you in a way; it owns a piece of your time because you have to pay for it. I'm very selective about whether I want this enough or if I'm willing to let it own me a little bit. So, I don't need a lot of those things. And I also have this... you're good at these questions, man. The last thing I want is to be able to have as much fun whether I'm in a mansion having a feast with celebrities or if I'm stuck in an elevator by myself. This means I don't want to have to have some nice things in order to feel good. I don't want to have to have the circumstances going my way for me to feel good.
01:47:07	Hasan Minhaj	yeah
01:47:07	Shaan Puri	and so
01:47:07	Hasan Minhaj	But that's self-satisfaction. That's you training. I want to train my brain. Yeah, but that's you doing what you're training your brain. You're meditating, you're boxing, whatever that thing is. So you feel a sense of self-satisfaction. That's $0. It's not $100,000,000.
01:47:20	Shaan Puri	zero dollars
01:47:21	Hasan Minhaj	that's not a $100,000,000 or a $100,000
01:47:23	Shaan Puri	Exactly. Because the ultimate goal, the ultimate way to carry myself, isn't that I had the $100,000,000. It's that I just remind myself of that if I ever start to feel lack. Because when I heard...
01:47:30	Hasan Minhaj	That what resonated with me as an artist is play big. Yeah, play big! Why are you playing scared? Cook, you're on the court! Let it fly, launch! Be loose, do the impressions, do characters. That's what my thing is. That's my goal. I want to be loose, I want to have fun, and I want to really get on the floor.
01:47:48	Shaan Puri	Use a basketball analogy because I know you love basketball. Yeah, in researching for this, I saw your celebrity game. You’ve got a nice left hand!
01:47:55	Hasan Minhaj	left yeah you're not lefty right no I'm left I'm right
01:47:58	Shaan Puri	But you were very nice with the left. Yeah, the analogy is this: Steph Curry is not afraid to shoot his shot anywhere on the court. When he's past half court, he is willing to let it fly. That doesn't mean every time he steps across half court he just lets it fly because he knows the ultimate goal is to win. Yes, but he's not afraid to shoot his shot. He's not thinking about missing; he's thinking about making it. His confidence is in that make.
01:48:21	Hasan Minhaj	yeah
01:48:21	Shaan Puri	So, I would say a very similar thing on the business side, which is I don't just spend like a drunken sailor or invest in the most wild stuff possible all the time. I'm not trying to take every risk possible. I'm not trying to shoot every shot at half court. But I am confident if I pull... but you're not afraid.
01:48:37	Hasan Minhaj	that you let
01:48:37	Shaan Puri	If I’m feeling it, or if I believe I can make the shot, I’m going to pull. Yeah, even if I miss the last three. Even if this is not what other people do.
01:48:44	Hasan Minhaj	this feels right
01:48:45	Shaan Puri	yeah I put in the time and I have the confidence of myself and I'm not gonna second guess it
01:48:49	Hasan Minhaj	yeah
01:48:49	Shaan Puri	So that's where I'll make cool, take some risks that feel right to me in the moment. But the overall objective is to win. It's not to take the maximum risk possible.
01:48:58	Hasan Minhaj	yeah yeah
01:48:58	Shaan Puri	it's also not to minimize risk it's to win and you gotta define what that win is for yourself
01:49:02	Hasan Minhaj	right
01:49:03	Shaan Puri	My definition of a win for myself is that I want to have the lifestyle where I'm at the mansion with my best friends. We're at the table, we're feasting, and we're toasting. That's what I want.
01:49:11	Hasan Minhaj	yeah
01:49:12	Shaan Puri	But I want to be able to have as much fun if I'm alone, stuck in an elevator. That is my ultimate win—where my mind has created that situation where I can have all those things.
01:49:21	Hasan Minhaj	yeah
01:49:22	Shaan Puri	but I'm I am impervious to the environment great I will have just so that's my ultimate win
01:49:27	Hasan Minhaj	yeah
01:49:27	Shaan Puri	I'll take enough risks along the way to get to that you know as I go
01:49:30	Hasan Minhaj	that's great last question this is from this is from me to you
01:49:33	Shaan Puri	people gonna be pissed by the way they're like dude you had us on you just talked about your own fucking philosophy no
01:49:37	Hasan Minhaj	you know what I'm saying people are
01:49:38	Shaan Puri	gonna be pissed
01:49:38	Hasan Minhaj	No, no, no. I'm not saying this right now for the listeners and the watchers. People are going to be like, "He interrupted Sean too much," and "Why is he talking like this about big people?"
01:49:45	Shaan Puri	are gonna be like sean you know you're not the star of
01:49:47	Hasan Minhaj	No, no, no, no. I'm coming from... I humble myself before all of you, my first million people. So listen, let's see. I love this! Again, this is what I love most about IRL experiences—about being on stage, doing material in front of people, hearing the applause break, knowing that that joke is right because I've corroborated it with the audience. Sometimes comics, when a joke doesn't work, they'll be like, "Fuck you, I know better." And sometimes that works. But there are a lot of times where it's like, "No, no, no. Hear them, listen to them, see them." You want to be seen, but you gotta see them too. For you, as an outsider, you know we don't know each other well. This is our first time actually meeting. When you watch the show and you see me, what would be your advice for someone like me? I'm at an inflection point in my career. I represent a certain period of time. My contemporaries—me, John Mulaney, Ali Wong—we're entering that new era. The Bill Burrs and the Chappelles are the elder statesmen of the art form. What is your advice to someone like me looking at it from the outside? Because you have such a great business mind.
01:50:54	Shaan Puri	Yeah, I think what's worked for you is going to keep working. That's why I said before, I think you have zigged while everybody else has zagged. So, everybody was going in one direction, which was low accountability and low risk.
01:51:09	Hasan Minhaj	yeah
01:51:11	Shaan Puri	Doing things under, you know, worried about cancel culture and things like that, I think you have built a niche where you're not afraid to call out the Saudi prince. You're not afraid to call out the president. But you're calling out not from a place of getting a reaction. You're calling out when you see a truth. You're putting your finger on it and saying, "I don't care if this hurts. I don't care if this is a nerve. I'm gonna have my take on this. I'm gonna stand by my take regardless of what's happening." And that's when all... now those are the things that have hit for you. You talked about that in the show. Yeah, so I think it's not that you have to keep doing that same exact thing. You have to keep in the mindset that got you to do that in the first place. You gotta self-assess: what got me to observe those things? What made me curious? Where I observed those things? Where I asked the question that got me to that truth?
01:51:56	Hasan Minhaj	right
01:51:57	Shaan Puri	What gave me the guts to do this? Oh, I felt like I had nothing to lose. I was trying to make a name for myself. Now I’ve got a name for myself, and with every tweet, I’m kind of worried about how people are going to react. Well, now you're not playing the game the way you did at that time. Yeah, so I would say, first and foremost, don't lose what got you to the dance. Second is the stuff you talked about, which is you're betting on yourself. You're owning your own production, you're owning your IP, and you're owning as much of that pipeline as you can from a business perspective. Because it's what gets you leverage. You get to capture the value you're creating. You create a bunch of value, you gotta capture it. You gotta look at the supply chain and say, "Who's capturing all this value? Why is Ticketmaster taking this much of my fees?"
01:52:29	Hasan Minhaj	yeah
01:52:30	Shaan Puri	Why is it, you know, when I go to put this special online, what do I really make out of this? First, what do they make? How do I get their numbers? How do I understand how to capture value on the distribution side and not just this side? Yeah, I'll try to think about those types of things. It seems like you're building... like, for example, my mom saw you on the morning show. I watched the morning show too. Yeah, you know, oh shit, he's getting into these mainstream areas, building the name, building the face there. Then you're gonna almost like... that's how you go get the new fans and you take them back. You build this funnel. At the bottom of the funnel, the people who are gonna know your life story, they're gonna know what you stand for.
01:53:03	Hasan Minhaj	totally yeah they know man
01:53:04	Shaan Puri	Just like any product in Silicon Valley, you create a funnel. The top of the funnel is new fans, new eyeballs. How are you going to go get them in this strategy? The middle of the funnel is how you’re going to get them to have their first taste of you, their first real experience. Get them to their first show. Get them to watch, you know, the first 20 minutes of something that’s your best work.
01:53:22	Hasan Minhaj	yeah
01:53:22	Shaan Puri	How do I get that? And how do I get them to the bottom of the funnel? Which is, how do we create maximum value? Like, oh, a bunch of artists are doing NFTs. What does that look like for comedy?
01:53:30	Hasan Minhaj	right
01:53:30	Shaan Puri	You know, let me play with these ideas. I'm not going to do all of them, but I'm going to have brainstorming sessions with guys like Sean and say, "Yeah, what would I do with NFTs? What could a comedian do with NFTs?" I would start to think about it because that's bottom of funnel, more like total monetization.
01:53:43	Hasan Minhaj	yeah
01:53:43	Shaan Puri	I would think about that funnel. I would say, "Alright, I am a product, and I'm going to build my brand around that product." You know, it's a long series of optimizations.
01:53:52	Hasan Minhaj	totally
01:53:53	Shaan Puri	But that's how I would think about it. Yeah, that's how I would view my craft. It's easy to just get into the art world, which is like, you know, I'm trying to build myself and tell jokes to make people laugh. Yes, but ultimately, your product and your experience matter. From when I showed up at the show yesterday, there was an hour-long line. Luckily, we got to skip it because you hooked it up with some nice VIP stuff. But everybody's experience, end to end, isn't just when you step on the stage; it's from before the show.
01:54:22	Hasan Minhaj	totally
01:54:22	Shaan Puri	the line yeah the rest and I would say
01:54:24	Hasan Minhaj	our playlist when you sit
01:54:25	Shaan Puri	Down friction. Yeah, we talked about the interface where you go buy the tickets. How much friction is there? I will go look at that whole funnel and I would say, "Alright, I'm trying to grease this funnel. I'm trying to get them to these magic moments with me." The first magic moment is when I first made you laugh on that clip on Instagram. The second magic moment is when your friend takes you to a show and you have a great time. The third magic moment is the follow-up of that. The fourth is when you buy the merch, and actually, the merch stands for something total, you know, whatever.
01:54:50	Hasan Minhaj	Yeah, that's cool. I've always appreciated that because the eye cannot see itself. Sometimes we're so in our own heads, especially as artists. It's what requires us to do deep, meaningful work. But we remove ourselves from, like what you said, the line four blocks down the street from the Masonic Theater. How much you had to pay for parking, then what the show experience is like, all that stuff.
01:55:15	Shaan Puri	right
01:55:16	Hasan Minhaj	yeah
01:55:16	Shaan Puri	but I think you're doing great man
01:55:17	Hasan Minhaj	thanks man
01:55:18	Shaan Puri	I don't think you need advice from me to be honest with you I think you're doing a great
01:55:20	Hasan Minhaj	Hey, this is my 2¢ for the space you all are working in. I think it's really important to continue trying to be a source of light amidst all this heat that's out there. There's just a lot of garbage, and we need to actually represent ontological truth and reality for what it is.
01:55:40	Shaan Puri	right
01:55:42	Hasan Minhaj	Because you're playing with people's money, people are listening to "My First Million" for that thing. I just want to let you know.
01:55:47	Shaan Puri	yeah don't forget
01:55:48	Hasan Minhaj	it's that but it's that titillating feature yes it's like when you hear that title you're like but I wanna
01:55:53	Shaan Puri	it's but it's just like I wanna
01:55:54	Hasan Minhaj	make a million with
01:55:55	Shaan Puri	your show
01:55:55	Hasan Minhaj	blah blah blah
01:55:55	Shaan Puri	I came to laugh. Yeah, I came to laugh. You're making fun of our Indian parents and the goofy things that they do. Yeah, why did I? That's what I came for. What I loved was the stuff you were saying at the end—the stories about your daughter, the stories about the jerk parent at the library or the buffet or whatever. Those were where I was like, "Oh man, I attached." Same thing with "My First Million." The hook is ideas. "I'll help you make money and get you to your first million." But what do you do with that when you get there? I know that the people who are really gonna love this because that's gonna fade. Like, you get that hit... you get that hit... you get that hit. What are you gonna be here a year from now? You should have already gotten that million, but you know, by a couple years in or whatever. The people who are gonna stay because, damn, these are just great conversations. I wanna hang with these guys. Yeah, that's the only thing we do: we create a fun conversation where people wish they were here. I hope that there's a third seat in the studio. My goal is that somebody listening to this is like, "Damn, I feel like I was in that third seat." I was listening to a real conversation between two people—not you talking your book and me talking my book, but like a real conversation by two people you were curious about. So I answer questions, I ask you a bunch of questions about stuff I was curious about. They feel like they got to be a part of a conversation that was a little bit more entertaining than whatever's going on in their world that day. Uh-huh, like maybe their real-life conversations weren't as interesting. Sure, my hope is that they feel like they're in that third seat. That's like a win for me with this. So, I hope people enjoyed this. I know...
01:57:19	Hasan Minhaj	This is super fun! I appreciate you coming on. No, thanks for having me, man. And thanks for doing it in person. I remember you reached out and you're like, "Let's do it via Zoom." I was like, "No, we're doing this!"
01:57:26	Shaan Puri	yeah sorry to sam zoom couldn't join we pulled
01:57:27	Hasan Minhaj	One out for him. Yeah, Sam, check your DMs, bro. I'm in your DMs though. Okay, cool. Thank you.
01:57:37	Shaan Puri	man

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Hasan Minhaj - Comedy, Netflix, Haters, & Money

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