The 2022 Milly Awards (#401)

Shaan Puri

Alright, so this is the third time we're doing this. It's the best part of the year: the season finale. It is called the **Millie Awards**—our annual award show. We did it the first time, I think, improvised or pretty close to it. We did it just kind of on a whim, and people loved it, so we brought it back. Now we're bringing it back again. Basically, it's our awards. We have categories like **Billy of the Year**, **Breakout Company or Person**, our favorite **Unsexy Business**, our own **Best Investments**, and our own **Worst Investments**—things like that. So, I'm excited! I already got the sort of season finale vibes, and I'm excited for this. Do you want to say anything, Sam?

Sam Parr

You look like you drive a white G-Wagon right now. I can't believe how fast you've gone from Indian to Persian.

Shaan Puri

I look like my mistress drives a white g wagon

Sam Parr

You went from a nerdy Indian to an alpha Persian with just one jacket. That's kind of amazing how that happened.

Shaan Puri

I have never sold a rug, but I feel like I could right now. Yeah, and did you guys... let's see, Sam, you didn't get the memo about dressing up. Andrew, are you... your mic is wandering. A blazer? Yeah, you're blazered up. Did you guys bring...?

Sam Parr

I'm wearing a cardigan bro

Shaan Puri

bro you always wear a cardigan you always have like you know modern grandma style

Sam Parr

But I'm at a guest place, you know? I'm on an Airbnb. I gotta do what I gotta do. I didn't bring up break. I didn't bring my Persian apparel. I'm sorry.

Shaan Puri

Alright, well guys, cheers to a great year—a crazy year! I don't know what's in everybody's cup here. So, Sam, you're a classic Midwestern cola kind of guy. You probably say "cola," don't you?

Sam Parr

no but I am drinking a coke

Shaan Puri

There’s that great map where it's like some people say "pop," some people say "cola," and some people say "soda" or something like that. I feel like you might be a pop guy, Andrew. What do you have in the cup?

Andrew Wilkinson

I've got a aeropress coffee in a tiny mug

Shaan Puri

Bro, you just brought to you by... you just sponsored this whole pod just now. That was slick! I have a very frigid cold water with fresh lemon juice inside. Maybe I'm starting to cleanse. I saw a great tweet that said, "I don't cleanse, I clog," and I thought that's pretty cool. That's pretty good! You're on a juice cleanse; I'm on a cheese clog. Alright, so cheers to you guys! 20 million downloads this year for the podcast, which is, I think, six times bigger than last year. Or maybe four or five times... I might have my math wrong there, but I think YouTube's up 6x and the pod is up 4x or something like that. Big year! Big year for us, which is fun. And Andrew, you are the most frequent guest. You're the most favorite guest, and so it is only right to have you here. Alright, so without further ado, should we jump into the categories? I'm going to announce the category, I think, and then we go kind of round robin. Last year, we did it where we kind of picked who had the best answer after each one. I don't know if...

Sam Parr

You guys want to do that or are there any adjustments to the format here? Well, I think, by the way, your order was a little off. For example, if we're going to start with "Billy of the Year," then the next person should be the one for "Craziest Person of the Year" as well.

Shaan Puri

Okay, okay. Well, let's do it this way: we'll take turns, me and you, Sam, of just picking categories. Then you can go whatever order you want.

Sam Parr

okay

Shaan Puri

Let's start. Let's start with **Billy of the Year**. For those who don't know, we do a segment called **Billy of the Week**, where we typically feature a billionaire or someone who may not technically be a billionaire, but they carry themselves with that billionaire energy. It's about someone who's just doing life in an interesting way. So, Sam, who is your **Billy of the Year**?

Sam Parr

Mine's so boring. So my boring answer is **Zuck** because he's proven that he's actually pretty good. All these other people this year that have been in his category have gone insane. Bezos got a divorce, Elon's crazy, and all Zuck does is box. That's like his version of crazy. He's turned out to be okay, so I would say he's probably the **ability of the year**.

Shaan Puri

emotionally stable

Sam Parr

Yeah, he's done alright. But if I had to pick another one, it would be this guy named Brett Adcock. Brett Adcock is someone I met about 6 months ago. He’s basically only 34 to 36 years old; he's a young guy. He made a lot of money when he sold his company called Vettery for $100 million. Then he created Vettery, which is a recruiting company. It's not sexy, but then he created a flying drone company that he took public called Archer. It was worth $2 to $3 billion at its peak. Now, he told me that he’s put roughly $200 million of his own money into bootstrapping a new robotics company where they make humanoids. That guy is pretty **insane**, and I love crazy people like that.

Shaan Puri

that's a great one andrew who you got billie of the year

Andrew Wilkinson

so mine mine is actually a mfm guest palmer luckey

Sam Parr

oh good

Andrew Wilkinson

One, I feel like, you know, it's a little obvious, but I feel like you see so many of these billionaires who make all this money. Then they get very focused on PR, and they're very safe. They won't put their money where their mouth is. What I loved about him is that, A, he's actually taking his own capital and investing it in Anduril, doing something that is actually important in the world, or what he deems important. He actually just calls people out; he's honest. He's not a politician. I think most of these billionaires you talk to are very political. They have a PR team; he obviously does not. I thought that was so awesome when he went to the, what is it, the All In conference and just roasted Calacanis for like an hour. So, yeah, mad respect. I think he's awesome, and I thought that was one of the best interviews of the year.

Shaan Puri

That's a great one! I love, love that one. I thought I considered Palmer Luckey as well, but I decided to go with somebody a little more under the radar. Not a billionaire, but somebody who lives like I think a billionaire should. So, it's this guy who came to Camp MFM, which was our kind of private retreat of 20 or 30 badass people that we did. His name is Saeed. Saeed is a guy I didn't know much about. You had mentioned him before, but I never met him.

Sam Parr

he might be a billionaire

Shaan Puri

He might be, but it doesn't matter. He lives like... So when we met him at the camp, I was like, "So what do you do?" First of all, he just had the most chill energy. He was not stressed, he was not worried, and he was not seeking attention. He had none of those small boy traits. Instead, he was relaxed, having fun, and asking people questions. I asked him, "So what do you do?" and he's like, "Well, you know, I..." He started to explain, but somebody else cut him off and said, "Let me brag for you for a second here." So what Saeed owns is basically the largest collection of WordPress websites and tools. If you search for WordPress, you know, WordPress powers like 30 or 40% of all internet websites. People are often searching, "How do I do this on my WordPress site?" You'll typically land on one of his websites, like WP Beginner or WP Engine or whatever. From there, it'll say, "Well, if you want to capture emails of people who come in using WordPress, like an email capture pop-up, use OptinMonster," which is also owned by Saeed. So he basically has the landing spot where people come. He's got the number one search rankings, and he owns the tools that he refers. He turned his random curious traffic into SaaS subscribers. He basically built an empire. He was telling us about the gas stations he owns and all the other crazy stuff he does with his money. His work style was one that I envy. He's like, "Well, here's my month: the last week of the month, I do all my meetings with the operators of my businesses." I was like, "So what do you do the other three weeks?" And he's like, "One to one and a half weeks, we travel. We just go to Costa Rica, then we go to Egypt, then we go wherever. My family and I just love to travel. Then I read and I just chill out. I think the other week and a half, I play with my son a lot. We play basketball." I was like, "Wow, this guy is dominating his business niche, but he's also checking the box on family. He's checking the box on travel. He's got it going on." So I was really impressed by Saeed.

Sam Parr

year very very giving too he he gives away a lot of money too

Shaan Puri

Yeah, amazing guy. So, he's mine. That's alright. So, those are the Billies of the year. I'll just put it out there: I think Palmer was the right answer. What do you think, Sam?

Sam Parr

I agree

Shaan Puri

Palmer was the right answer. If you haven't seen the clip of him going to Jason Calacanis' conference, it's like going to someone's birthday party and roasting him. That was epic.

Sam Parr

andrew did you hear on our pod when we asked palmer if he could kick jason's ass

Andrew Wilkinson

yeah when he was talking about his scale his like how tall he was

Sam Parr

Besides, he goes, "Yeah, he was like, well, you know, if you look at the physics of this..." I forget exactly how he explained it, but he was very engineer-like. He goes, "Like a bear, beetle, monkey," this one. Yeah, he said something like that. It was pretty funny.

Shaan Puri

alright let's go to the next category sam you could pick 1

Sam Parr

let's say talk about the biggest l we each took this year

Shaan Puri

okay andrew

Sam Parr

you go first andrew

Shaan Puri

And by the way, this category is the biggest loss. It's the biggest loss you took, but it doesn't have to be a big serious thing. It's just a loss that you put in the loss column, however big or small it was in your life.

Andrew Wilkinson

Yeah, so I read this book about 15 years ago by this guy, Ramit Sethi. He's got a website called "I Will Teach You to Be Rich," and he has a book with the same title. At the time, I knew absolutely nothing about personal finance or finance at all. He had this really great section where he says people think they need to save money on lattes. What they actually need to save money on is percentages. So, he's talking about interest rates on credit cards, interest rates on mortgages, and fees in real estate transactions. For example, the difference between 2% and 2.5% can be like $20,000, and people don't think about that.

Sam Parr

He says, "Don't worry about $3 problems; worry about $30,000 problems."

Andrew Wilkinson

Exactly. So, I had one of those... You know, maybe like two episodes ago, a couple of interviews ago, I talked about interest rates and the risks there. This was very top of mind because we had a piece of debt in the company that I wanted to lock in the interest rate on. So, we were going to buy all these hedges. In order to do that, I had to sign all these documents, and I'm kind of lazy. I hate signing documents. These documents were sitting in our office, and I was like, "Oh, I'll do it tomorrow. I'll do it tomorrow." I kept putting it off. Then finally, I signed it, and I realized that between the time it was sitting there for a week, the interest rate went up by like 1%. That represented like $500,000 or something insane. So, just me being lazy and not signing that document and not thinking in percentages cost me like $500,000.

Sam Parr

that'll do it

Shaan Puri

sam what you got

Sam Parr

That's a great one! This year, I met a guy who had an app called **Intro**. It's a great app, and I agreed to try it because he was like, "Hey, come try this." I did, and it was one of the bigger mistakes of the year that I made. So basically, I'm on this app called **Intro**, where for a little while, people could...

Shaan Puri

you were bragging about how you were crushing it on intro how is this the l

Sam Parr

That's such a weak move on my part to do it. So, this app... I got on there because I was like, "Oh, you know?" Honestly, it's fun. It is quite fun to use. It's fun to meet new people. But people pay me for my time, and it's quite addicting because you can make a substantial amount of money doing that. However, if I'm supposed to be such a big swinging dick, if I'm supposed to be a hotshot like I want to be, I shouldn't be selling my time. At least, I shouldn't be selling my time and keeping the money. I should just give it away. That was a big... that was a weak move on my part to be selling my time, and I regret doing that.

Shaan Puri

That's a great one. I was making fun of you for that, and then I was also kind of like, "Wait, should I be doing that? That is a lot of money."

Sam Parr

and then I

Shaan Puri

was like no no no don't sell your time don't sell your time

Sam Parr

It's such short-term thinking. And you know who really changed my opinion of it? Who actually could be "Billionaire of the Year"? It's the guy, Brian Johnson.

Andrew Wilkinson

mhmm

Sam Parr

Brian Johnson from Braintree, he kind of didn't mean to do it, but he was razzing me on using it. I was like, "You're right."

Shaan Puri

what did he what did he say that wasn't my fault

Sam Parr

He told a story. He wasn't directing it towards me, but he shared how, instead of getting this job, he should just put more effort into his company. He said that in three years, this won't even be a problem. Instead of making money now, which could temporarily fix things, he should go for the long-term solution. This way, he wouldn't even have to budget ever again.

Andrew Wilkinson

Right, I see a lot of... so I think like all three of us kind of probably grew up not having a ton of money and really valuing every dollar. I remember, you know, $1,000 was like a crazy amount of money to me because I could buy an iMac. If I bought an iMac, then I could have one of my staff do all this work, and I could make like $20,000 from it. I feel like I still, if I'm not careful, think in those terms. When someone comes along and offers you $1,000 an hour, it's like completely insane as an opportunity.

Sam Parr

dude or like $3 an hour or $4 an hour

Andrew Wilkinson

It is crazy. It's amazing! But you get... I know all these people. I know guys that are worth $50,000,000, and they still manage their own Airbnb bookings. They'll be like, "Oh sweet, I tweaked this. I made an extra $300 in cleaning fees," or whatever. I always think, like, you know, you guys used a quote before, but it's like you're playing... you're saving pennies in a dollars game. It's just ridiculous.

Shaan Puri

yeah that's yeah

Sam Parr

But some people enjoy that. Like Nathan Barry, who owns ConvertKit. He's probably worth over $200 million based on the valuation of ConvertKit. I'll be with him, and I'll pull out his phone, and he's messaging Airbnb guests. I'm like, "Why are you doing this?" He goes, "I love it." In that case, I'm like, "Alright, cool." I don't like taking intro calls necessarily. Sometimes I do, but yeah.

Shaan Puri

Yeah, there's a good test. I remember I talked to this guy when we got acquired by Twitch. I talked to a guy who had been acquired by Twitch three years ago. I was like, "Yeah, let's grab lunch." So we go out for lunch, and I'm like, you know, he's like, "Yeah, you're gonna love it. But watch out for this." He's giving me a bunch of tips, and I'm like, "Okay, great. Let me give you a tip real quick." I said, "Why are you still here?" And he's like, "Oh dude, I really like my job actually. You know, I didn't think I would stay here, but I really like it. It's fun." He tells me how great it is, but I had kind of seen him in a couple of meetings at this point. I was like, "These meetings aren't fun." So, you know, I don't know what you're doing the other hours of the day, but I saw you for like half a day last week, and that didn't seem fun at all. I said, "Okay, well maybe this is fun, but let me just ask you something. You made, you know, he probably made like $10 to $20 million on the sale. I said, 'So you don't need this job, but you're not at the...'"

Shaan Puri

Where for you, you're just gonna stop working altogether, blah blah blah. I said, "If you had $100,000,000 in the bank—like literally, if I opened up your bank account right now and saw $100,000,000 just sitting there—would you come into work tomorrow? Would you do this just for fun?" Because at that point, you know what you're making here every year is a rounding error. You just make that in interest if you had $100,000,000 sitting there. He said, "Well, no, then I would go do X, Y, Z." I was like, "Okay, cool." So just as long as we're being honest, I'm not saying you're miserable here. I agree, but the stories we tell ourselves to justify doing something that we're actually doing for the money, but we don't want to say we're doing it for the money. We want to say we're doing it for all these other reasons. There's a very simple test: imagine you had all the money. Would you still do this thing?

Andrew Wilkinson

But the other, the other dangerous thing about that logic... So, Ryan Holiday has this great daily Stoic podcast, and recently he had an excerpt from Steven Pressfield's book. He's got all these books about discovering your thing, your mastery, and art, and all this kind of stuff. He talks about how people get addicted to patterns. People can be addicted to love, they can be addicted to money, they could be addicted to, you know, almost anything. The question I always ask myself is: I might love designing the website, or I might love going into the Shopify stats and seeing the sales, or doing the Airbnb management. But is that just me addicted to those dopamine hits, distracting myself from my greater purpose? Right? From doing something where I have mastery that's new? Am I just going back to the same thing? You guys know the joy—there's this amazing confirmation bias joy of reading a book and hearing something you already know confirmed over and over and over again. I'll do this with value investing books, right? And I'll go, "Oh, I already know that. I do that." I feel good. Right? That's actually a waste of time. And so, that's the flip side of it.

Shaan Puri

The other one is, my buddy told me this when I had been working on my startup for 6 or 7 years. He said, "I just don't get what you're doing." I was like, "What do you mean? I can explain it." He replied, "No, not the logic of it. Let me ask you a question. If this all went away, is this what you would sign up to go do? Would you, basically, take the example of the guy I was talking to? If you weren't doing this job, would you just apply for this job here?" I said, "No, I would go do something completely different." He pointed out that I was there because I got acquired. Fast forward 3 or 4 years later, I'm still there doing the same job. But if I took this job away, I would never go to a job posting and apply for this job. He was explaining that "inertia is just a bitch." He said, "Whatever you're doing, you're probably doing it because you were already doing it, not because you think it's the thing you actually should do in most cases." So, you gotta be really aware of that. Alright?

Sam Parr

so what's yours

Shaan Puri

oh okay so what wait what is the category even what are we in

Sam Parr

your biggest al

Shaan Puri

My biggest... okay, I have one that's sort of like yours. I was chasing pennies in a dollar game. So, I recently moved, and your boy rents. I'm a renter. I moved from one rental to another new house, and I was like, "Oh, I love this! I could just move whenever I want. I don't have to worry about anything, just call the movers." I broke my lease and just moved. But my landlord came in and, first, you know, did a walkthrough of the place when I was there. We talked about his family, his history in this house. We shook hands in the garage and said, "You know, it's been nice having you. Alright, see you later. Don't worry about all this stuff; everything looks fine." Three weeks later, he hits me with like a $20,000 or $30,000 bill. At least $20,000! He gives me the extra $20,000 bill on the move-out for, like, you know, scratches and stuff like that.

Sam Parr

was he right

Shaan Puri

No, he was not right. He’s a lawyer, so he had baked into the lease that anything associated with the move-out is your cost. For example, if I fly to California to observe the move-out, you have to pay for my flights, my hotels, my food... There was a lot in there that was not related to damaging the property; it was just extra stuff. But he had put it in the lease. I had signed the lease because, you know, like Andrew, I don’t really read it. Or if I read it, I’m not going to remember it.

Sam Parr

it words yeah

Shaan Puri

yeah it's like you know I'm optimistic at the beginning of things I'm like this is gonna go great he he's gonna be a chill dude just like I would be well he's never gonna hold me to any of these things and like sure enough he held me to the letter of law and every single thing and so he so I decide to do something that we talked about on this on this podcast I decide to take him to petty court and so a lawyer a guy who listens to the pod who's a lawyer reaches out he's like yo I heard about the landlord thing I'm ready to fight to the death on this for free and I was like let's do this and so in my head I was like I'm gonna fight this 20 grand got this lawyer now it's got troy you know he's a great dude got to know him a little bit through this process but we try fighting back we and the problem is I'm going against an 87 year old retired lawyer who's got nothing not but time on his hands he this is probably the biggest thrill he's had in 37 years to fight and be and you know like look up every california statute and he sends me these packets of like 47 documents he sends me cd roms full of photos of the property I'm I'm like dude I don't have a cd player to put this in what about how am I supposed to see these photos and he's just sending me letter after letter and he's I took a guy to petty court who is like the king of petty court and in the end I end up paying the full amount just by saying f it and I'm like because I'm like dude I'm wasting my time I'm wasting this lawyer's time I'm wasting this old guy's time but he's got infinite time and he is built for this whereas I should've just wrote this 20 k check and just moved on with my life 5 weeks ago and I knew it because at night when before I was going to sleep I was up I was like oh shit I didn't respond to that fucking subpoena he sent me basically this like giant package of letters I was like okay I'm gonna call him I'm gonna say this he's gonna say that and I was like imagining this whole debate in my head I was like dude what a waste of mental space and once I finally had that realization that I was playing a small boy game by losing my mental like my mental space in my head that could be done used on productive things in order to be in petty court I wrote the check and I moved on with my life

Sam Parr

dude I think it's worth fighting those things by the way

Andrew Wilkinson

no no it's 100 dude you no

Sam Parr

it's what I you just going to war for the sake of war is worth it

Shaan Puri

I had the sand on my shoulder, and I had Andrew on my shoulder. I listened to the sand when I should've never listened to it. I wasted four weeks of my life.

Andrew Wilkinson

That's like you're a bull in a china shop, and there's this tiny little fly buzzing on you. You just have to ignore it. There's a great quote on this that someone said to me once when I was going through something similar. The guy said, "Never wrestle a pig; you'll both get dirty, but the pig will enjoy it."

Shaan Puri

yeah that that is exact there's no. But I'm the pig here

Sam Parr

I'm the pig here. Well, I had... and Sean, I had the... you know my situation.

Shaan Puri

yeah

Sam Parr

I had something like this go on this year too. I texted Andrew and asked, "What do I do?" He said the same thing: "Don't wrestle with pigs" or whatever this biblical shit is. I bought into it, and it eats me. It eats me every night that someone got to me, that I got got.

Andrew Wilkinson

You know, there's what Charlie Munger calls it: "the rats in the granary." If you own a granary, you have a big warehouse full of grain. There are going to be rats. You can keep killing them over and over again, but they're always going to come back. It's better to just accept that there are rats out there.

Shaan Puri

Fab, you got rats at your granary, bro? Yeah, alright, let's do this.

Sam Parr

do the dupe let's go to the next one

Shaan Puri

Okay, cool. Alright, let's go to the next category. We're going to do **Breakout Company**, which is sort of the sexy one, and then let's do the **Unsexy Business of the Year**. So, we'll do both. First, let's do the **Breakout Company of the Year**. Andrew, you want to go first?

Andrew Wilkinson

yeah I mean this is so obvious but I and I I came up with a few others but I just I

Shaan Puri

feel like we're both gonna say

Andrew Wilkinson

the same

Shaan Puri

obvious thing

Andrew Wilkinson

where everyone's gonna say

Shaan Puri

the same thing slopagely ai

Andrew Wilkinson

OpenAI's GPT-3 is shocking. I think this is like a watershed moment, and I haven't seen anything like this in probably 10 years.

Sam Parr

Oh, I have two words for you guys that will change your opinion: **Liver King**. What this guy called his shot, man, that's a true breakout. You're gonna tell me that dude, when you have Elon Musk and Sam Altman and $10,000,000,000, that's not a breakout company? That's not a breakout? That's just a company that they are who we thought they were. They did exactly what we thought they were gonna do. That doesn't count as a breakout.

Andrew Wilkinson

You know, saying you expected... you expected, like, when I remember a friend of mine called me about a month before they released the chat and was like, "Oh my God, it's amazing." I kind of rolled my eyes, you know? I wasn't super excited about it, but I have not seen anything this crazy in a very long time. I mean, obviously, DALL-E and stuff is insane too, but the chat... it's just nuts. I've actually stopped using Google a lot of the time and started using the chat.

Sam Parr

Dude, well look, they took the nerdiest of nerds, the smartest guys on Earth, and they gave them $10,000,000,000. Then, they locked them in a room for 6 years.

Andrew Wilkinson

Yeah, but like if it was 1945 and you were to ask, "What's the breakout project of the year?" I would say, "It's the Manhattan Project." And you're like, "Oh, well they got $1,000,000,000 and whatever." It's still crazy! They made a nuclear bomb. It's crazy. This is like a nuclear bomb moment.

Sam Parr

It's just like my expectations. They met my expectations. If this were a 2nd grade report card, it would definitely be marked as "met expectations." There would not be an "exceeds expectations." They met my expectations.

Shaan Puri

kinda felt

Andrew Wilkinson

I kind of felt like it was a goofy project. I was like, "Oh, you know, Google, Apple, all these other people, they're going to do this." They have a huge profit incentive. These guys are going nonprofit when they first started, and it's kind of all about openness and whatever. It's morphed into something that I didn't expect, and I certainly didn't expect it to do as well as it did given all the star power. I often think about supergroups. Supergroups are usually not that good. It was like a supergroup.

Sam Parr

yeah I mean the avengers worked out but yeah I feel you I I feel you

Andrew Wilkinson

I mean like in music

Shaan Puri

so sam yours your your breakout person or company is liver king

Sam Parr

no they call this shot

Shaan Puri

not ai

Sam Parr

I mean yeah or andrew tate but yeah one of those guys

Shaan Puri

If you want to know how they called it a shot, we did an episode where we detailed the leaked emails from the Liver King. He was like, "Yo, I'm gonna take a bunch of steroids, I'm gonna build this brand, and then I'm gonna sell like $100,000,000 worth of products. That's what I'm gonna do." And then he did it. So, dude.

Sam Parr

that's so much more dope alright

Shaan Puri

Let me merge the two. So, Sam, you like the "call your shot"ness. Andrew, you're like, "Wow, open-eyed Sam Altman, you guys have done something magical." I'm going to give you a "call your shot" that I think is kind of unbelievable, to be honest with you. Okay, so Paul Graham is going to win my award here for calling the "call your shot" moment. Back in 2009, Paul Graham wrote a blog post. So this is now, what, like 13 years ago or something like that? Paul Graham writes a blog post called "If you go to paulgraham.com/5founders" [the number 5 in the founders]. He says, "Inc.com recently asked me who the 5 most interesting founders are in the last 30 years." He goes, "How do you decide who's interesting? I think it's influence. You know, who are the 5 who've influenced me the most? Who do I use as examples when I'm talking to companies that I'm funding? Who do I find myself quoting a lot?" And it's everybody you would expect. It's Steve Jobs as number 1. He's got Larry and Sergey from Google. He's got his buddy, Paul Buchheit, who invented Gmail and also wrote the first prototype for AdSense and gave Google the mantra of "Don't be evil." Okay, everything's expected so far. And number 5, he says, is Sam Altman. And he goes, "I was told I shouldn't mention who..."

Sam Parr

at the who at the time by the way was 22 I think right

Shaan Puri

yeah exactly at the time he's probably 21 or 22 years old

Andrew Wilkinson

And he was wearing double pop neon collars, just like Steve Jobs. Exactly. It was very embarrassing.

Shaan Puri

Photo of him doing this announcement at the Apple conference where he's wearing a double polo with a neon popped collar. It's really incredible. You wouldn't think that that guy's going to rule the world, but Paul Graham knew that he would. Here's what he wrote about Sam Altman back in 2009: "I shouldn't mention a YC founder, but Sam Altman cannot be stopped by flimsy rules. If he wants to be on this list, he is going to be. Honestly, Sam is, along with Steve Jobs, the founder I refer to most when I'm advising startups. On questions of design, I ask, 'What would Steve do?' But on questions of strategy or ambition, I ask, 'What would Sam do?' What I learned meeting Sam is that the doctrine of the elect applies to startups. It applies in a way that it applies way less than most people think. Startup investing is not about picking winners you think might win a horse race because there are a few people with such force of will that they are going to get whatever they want. Now, you fast forward 13 years. The guy, you know, basically creates what’s going to be a multi-hundred billion dollar company, OpenAI, and brings one of the most magical technology experiences, which is if you're using DALL-E or GPT-3, he created that.

Sam Parr

He wasn't even that successful back then, by the way. I don't think he had... I think he had sold a company, but he sold it for less than they raised.

Shaan Puri

I don't think he sold it even at that. So let me see when it was called looped

Andrew Wilkinson

yeah it was looped

Shaan Puri

And I think they sold it for about **$43,000,000**. He sold it three years later. So, this was at the beginning of Loop'd. He sold it for **$43,000,000**, and I remember reading about the sale. There was some interesting stuff about how they sold it for less than it was funded for, which is, you know, considered a loss. But he sold it in a way that he was able to pocket a few million dollars. He then invested in Airbnb right away and was the first seed investor in Airbnb. He's had this, you know, epic run post that. Yeah, he's a crazy guy.

Sam Parr

I think that's gotta be the breakout. I agree, maybe Sam Altman this time can beat the Liver King, but it's close.

Shaan Puri

we could all agree you know tomato tomato

Andrew Wilkinson

The most impressive thing about Liver King is he's not a good-looking dude. Like some of these guys you see, who are influencers and they're like super jacked and handsome, he's not a good-looking dude.

Shaan Puri

He's my example. When I say, I told Siheil Bloom this because Siheil Bloom is like the good-looking version of me. I was like, "Hey, if I can't be good-looking, I'm going to be interesting-looking." And that's what the Liver King did. He's not good-looking, but he decided to be really *fucking* interesting-looking, and that works just as well.

Sam Parr

I then we'll have to go with sam altman gets it this time

Shaan Puri

alright let's do unsexy business I'll dude

Sam Parr

I didn't even know what you meant by that well you go first

Shaan Puri

An unsexy business is like when we do our "Blue Collar Billy of the Week." What do we call this? The blue collar side hustle. It's like a business that's not artificial intelligence or flying cars or whatever. It's just a boring, unsexy business. How are you confused by this? This is like the premise of our podcast.

Sam Parr

I don't know. Alright, well, tell me what podcast. So, what's yours?

Shaan Puri

Alright, I'm gonna go with... I could go with egg cartons, but I think I've kind of beat that one to death. The egg cartons.com, if you haven't heard me rant about that, go look up that episode. That is honestly the most remarkable one. This woman, Sarah Moore... but if not that, I'm gonna go with one we haven't talked about that much on here. It's called Aunt Flow. Have you heard of this business? No? So, what Aunt...

Sam Parr

are you saying the word aunt like aunt

Shaan Puri

I'm saying the word ant antflow yeah antflow

Sam Parr

Okay, alright. You could say it your way. Sorry, I just wanted to make sure that it's the word that we're using.

Shaan Puri

Yeah, so Antflow... oh, gotcha. Antflow is a business that is basically about its products. I don't know how I'm supposed to say this, but it's about its products. So basically, you go to a public restroom inside of any university, a stadium, whatever, in the women's restroom. They should have, and now in many states, they're mandating that you have to have, you know, tampons, pads, products for women. Normally, these were coming in a dusty, raggedy container with really poor hygiene. You have to open the thing, and everyone's trying to use toilet paper to touch it to open it. It's really gross. I mean, there’s literally blood on these products. So it's not something that you want to touch; it's not a sexy experience. What she did was bring a sexy experience to a very unsexy industry. If you go look at their dispensers, they basically made the Tesla of dispensers. They install it on the wall, and it's got this great brand. She's this great founder, and they are just cleaning up. They are getting contracts with universities, and these are multiyear contracts. It's installed on the wall; this thing is never going to get changed. There's going to be no churn, is my prediction. It's sort of like they install a dispenser, and then you have to buy the products as they are used or as they run out. She calls herself the CEO, the Chief Estrogen Officer. She's just gone all in on building this company as a woman-led company that's making this one kind of crappy experience better. I asked her, I was like...

Sam Parr

did you invest in this

Shaan Puri

Yeah, I was like, "I've never been in a woman's restroom before. What's the current situation? Who's the incumbent? Who are you competing against?" And she's like, "Literally, it's a guy named... like a brand called Bob and Rick." Bob and Rick's dispensers are like the thing. You know, it's this terrible experience, so we're making it better. They're definitely at like, you know, sort of a high 7-figure run rate. They have all these great contracts, and they're the official dispenser for all the Apple stores and for, like, you know, the whole state of... I don't know, Utah or whatever. Some state that's mandated this can happen. I think once one state does it, all these states are gonna do it. So I think they're very well positioned to take a very boring niche and build a pretty badass business.

Sam Parr

And she's a teal fellow, only 25 years old. Yeah, Claire Coder, I think her name is.

Shaan Puri

that's right

Sam Parr

that's a good one do you have one andrew

Andrew Wilkinson

Yeah, okay, so hotels are constantly trying to save money, especially chains. I don't know if you've ever gone to a hotel chain, but you'll notice that on the wall, if it's a cheaper one, they'll have dispensers for shampoo and soap, and it's all refillable. The idea is that you used to go to a hotel and there'd be a bar of soap in a box. You would open the bar of soap and use it to clean yourself, and then they have to throw it away. It's a huge waste; they're constantly throwing money away. So, hotels have moved to these refillable dispensers. But one thing that they can't do is toilet paper. When you go into a hotel and there's a full roll of toilet paper, and you use some of it, no one wants to go into a hotel and think, "Oh, what the heck? There's like a little bit of toilet paper left." It's obvious that someone just used it. I just heard about this business that hasn't launched yet, but I thought it was fascinating. Basically, it's a dispenser for toilet paper that actually embeds in the wall. You pull out almost like you would with Kleenex—perfectly portioned toilet paper. I don't think this would necessarily work at a Four Seasons or a high-end place, but certainly for a Marriott or a Hilton, I think they could save tons of money. I thought that was just incredibly boring and quite interesting.

Shaan Puri

that's a great one alright

Sam Parr

that's a good one

Shaan Puri

There was one company that got big doing that with shampoo bottles back in the day. They would take the once-used shampoo bottles and recycle them. Basically, they said, "Hey, hotel, we'll pay you nothing for it, but we'll come collect it for you. We'll just take it off your hands because this is just trash for you." And they created a business.

Sam Parr

out of that

Andrew Wilkinson

So, have you guys invested in any boring businesses? Like, I, you know, I gave Nick Huber a little bit of money. I think you did.

Sam Parr

I've done cuber yeah

Andrew Wilkinson

what else what other boring stuff have you guys done

Shaan Puri

I'm in enduring so they buy you know a lot of kind of burnt boring businesses

Andrew Wilkinson

well that's kind of tech I mean like I mean like brick and mortar

Sam Parr

development of real estate like townhomes

Andrew Wilkinson

I feel like it's weird because I feel like half of what we talk about on this podcast is about these boring brick-and-mortar businesses. Yet, we fetishize them. We don't own that many of them. Do you own any of them? Yeah, I own an air ambulance business. I also own a deli and bakery, along with a bunch of other restaurants and that kind of stuff.

Sam Parr

wait what the but I wanna air air ambulance oh like helicopters

Andrew Wilkinson

Air ambulance. So, if you're in Mexico and you need to be brought home after having surgery or something, we facilitate that. It's a very good business. But I would really want more of those things. Have you guys ever thought about starting a fund around that or something? Because I feel like...

Shaan Puri

seems like a lot of work

Andrew Wilkinson

you know who's made money

Shaan Puri

It's kind of like casual countries. Yeah, I like to visit, but I don't want to live there.

Andrew Wilkinson

You don't have to operate. You don't have to operate. It's just invest in all these cash-flowing, boring businesses.

Sam Parr

Whenever people talk about that, I'm like, "Where do you find that?" Do you go to eBay? Where do you find this air ambulance thing, you know what I mean?

Andrew Wilkinson

Yeah, it was like we had to meet someone through a friend of a friend. It's always like someone's dad, right? It's like, "Oh, you know, his dad wants to retire and the kids don't want the business," or something like that. These things happen at the golf course.

Sam Parr

yeah I don't know

Shaan Puri

Yeah, I should be... we should be doing that. I think I got really tech brainwashed because I basically started a sushi restaurant, then I moved to Australia and did a biotech thing. But then I moved to Silicon Valley when I was 24, and I was like, basically, I just got really deep in the Silicon Valley kind of ethos and game. That was my network, and my skills were around internet companies. So I think it was kind of the right move to go deep there and try to win in that world because I think you don't have to win in all games. You know, I have a fund to do startup investing. If I do great with startup investing, I'll do great. I don't really need to also do great with a very different style of investing. So, I think I'm curious about it, but you know, do I want to sort of restart the learning curve in a new way?

Andrew Wilkinson

But, you know, you guys have this crazy advantage. I think your rolling fund does well because of the podcast, right? So if you guys go on and say, "Hey, who has a granddad, father, or mother who owns this family business that wants to sell?" I feel like you'd get mobbed. There's nothing that I...

Sam Parr

can do

Shaan Puri

alright [email protected]

Andrew Wilkinson

all those leads can go to me then if you guys don't want them

Shaan Puri

Let's see what comes in. I'll share all the interesting ones; I'll filter all the interesting ones for you, Andrew. So, **[email protected]**—email me your dad, your granddad, or your uncle's business that we could either take a minority stake in or maybe he's looking to retire and sell. Let's see what we got, okay? So those are the... wait, I got your business.

Sam Parr

Dude, you know, I was reading about Coffeezilla going deep on Andrew Tate's thing. Do you guys know how Andrew Tate makes money?

Shaan Puri

I do but go ahead

Sam Parr

He basically... well, okay, fine. You got that smug look on your face.

Shaan Puri

well isn't it a sexy bull it's like a cam girls business right like it's the definition of a sexy bull

Sam Parr

no no the real way that

Shaan Puri

he makes

Sam Parr

Money is... yeah, he's got this **fucking** Discord that's $50 a month in order to join. There are channels on copywriting. It's basically just the same stuff that you and I, Sean, have done—like screwing around. Except, do you know how big it is? It's like **1,000,000** members. No, no, no, no, no—like **1,000,000** members.

Shaan Puri

oh wow

Sam Parr

Like, we're talking **nine figures** in revenue. And Coffeezilla did it. He's like, "Look, here's all the members. If you multiply that by 50, and then you could even add a discount to it, it's like we're talking about north of **$100,000,000** in revenue." And it's just a Discord with a volunteer community, like chairs, like community leads. It's freaking crazy!

Shaan Puri

I considered saying him for breakout person, but you know, he's obviously pretty controversial. So I didn't want to like... the breakout is, I've never seen somebody go from nobody to everywhere, all the time, in your face the way this guy has. Like, he built a...

Sam Parr

brand crazy

Shaan Puri

In like 7 months or something like that, had you ever heard this word before? Andrew Tate last year? Like, no. I think he was the most Googled person on Earth this year.

Sam Parr

that's crazy to me is that crazy

Shaan Puri

And he says it, and when he does his interviews, he goes, "Mr. Beast has to spend $5,000,000 and blow up a bus in order to get 10,000,000 views." I said he...

Sam Parr

said I just talk

Shaan Puri

Yeah, and it's true. The guy's way of speaking and the things he says are so compelling. Then he built this viral engine where his entire Hustlers University is basically, "Yo, post cut-up clips of Tate everywhere and then go comment." In the comments, they revere him. That's how it works. Then, everybody who signs up for Hustlers University is going to make money doing that. Like, that's basically the core job: go promote me.

Sam Parr

it's crazy man it is crazy

Shaan Puri

it's a multilevel marketing scheme just promoting him he is the product

Sam Parr

It's wild. Alright, so what's the plan? Do we vote on that one or just move to a different topic?

Shaan Puri

yeah vote

Sam Parr

I forget the I don't remember

Shaan Puri

Let's just move on to Andrew's toilet paper thing. Let's say, okay, let's do the best investment. So, the best investment you made, and then we're going to do the worst investment also. So, let's start with the best investment. Let's go, Sam. What was the best investment you made in 2022?

Sam Parr

Financially, this year was horrible. In terms of money, I had none. The two best investments I made were getting fitness coaches: a nutritionist and a lifting coach. This year, for the first time, I’ve been walking around and getting noticed maybe 1 to 3 times a day. This is actually one of my most proud moments. I realized, "Oh wow, Sean, the work that you and I have done over 400 or 500 episodes has really paid off." So, this part is that this year felt different.

Andrew Wilkinson

has it ever has it ever been annoying

Sam Parr

Or, weirdly, there have been multiple times where Sarah and I are having a serious conversation, or we're arguing, or we're having a contentious conversation. Then, someone pops up, and you gotta like... oh hey, yeah, hi, hi. You gotta turn it on, and that kind of sucks. It's like, you know, when you and your wife get in a fight, but then you gotta get in the car together to go to your friend's house for dinner. You gotta put on like the performance of the century. That's kind of how it feels sometimes.

Andrew Wilkinson

there's a there's a what's her name from the hunger games jennifer

Sam Parr

lawrence her

Andrew Wilkinson

**Name:** Lawrence. She talked about how she can be nice to a thousand people, but if one time she's fighting with her boyfriend and she's kind of a jerk to somebody, they'll go on Reddit and post about it. She feels like you basically always have to be that person, and it's only a matter of time until you snap. Knowing you, it's only a matter of time.

Sam Parr

One time, we were exploring the pregnancy thing this year. We were at the baby doctor’s office, and someone in the waiting room said something to me. I was... I didn’t mean to be rude.

Shaan Puri

I'll accept your apology there. Alright, I'll do a quick one. So, my best financial investment has been in a company called **Triple Whale**. It's basically a tool for Shopify store owners. It helps you see your dashboard and make sure your ads are working well. They have a bunch of different features. I invested in this because I thought, "Oh, I like this. I want to use this for my e-commerce store." Or maybe I should just invest in it. I really didn't think this was going to be a big deal. I took my portfolio and ranked what I thought would be the breakout investments and which ones I thought were least likely to break out. I suspected I might be surprised, and I was very surprised. So, I think our $75,000 investment in Triple Whale is currently worth **$3,300,000**. That's been the biggest breakout from the fund so far. It would have been one of the five that I did not guess would be this explosive rocket ship. That's just not how I thought about it back then. When I saw it, it looked like this cool analytics tool for e-commerce, you know, Shopify stores. I didn't know how big that market was and how fast it would grow. It's been insane. That's my financial one. Then I'll also mention we did **Camp MFM**, and that was an amazing investment. I'll tell you a little story about it. We did this camp with 20 to 30 people. We went to North Carolina and flew in an NBA trainer. We paid for his and his buddy's flights and hotels. We rented these Airbnbs, and the camp was great. Everybody chipped in, I think around **$1,000 or $1,500**.

Sam Parr

grand or something yeah

Shaan Puri

I thought that would cover the cost, but it didn't quite cover it. I think we're in the hole for about $15 or something like that. No problem! It was an amazing experience—just for the basketball, the fun, meeting people, all that good stuff. But something kind of crazy happened. We tweeted out that we were hanging with Mr. Beast or something like that, or maybe that we recorded a podcast with Mr. Beast. A guy saw that and started following Ben Levy. Ben then checked out this guy's profile and saw that he was in the crypto space. He DMs him, "Oh, let's talk. Maybe they'll advertise with us." We ended up getting an acquisition offer from this person. That's not the deal we ended up going with, but it gave us leverage in the deal we did go with and opened this door into acquisition. It's all like, if we hadn't tweeted out that thing about Mr. Beast, I don't think this person would have followed, and then I don't think that conversation would have happened. The world works in these really funny ways. This amazing acquisition we had this year could have just as easily not happened or been for a lot less had we not done this totally unrelated thing.

Sam Parr

that's good

Shaan Puri

Good things happen to Goodspeed. Cool. Alright, Andrew, what you got? Best investment?

Andrew Wilkinson

So, mine's actually an investment I made a couple of years ago. It's taken a while to play out, and it's very small, but I really like this one. So, you guys know Sofia Amoruso? I think she's been on the podcast before. I met Sofia like 5 or 6 years ago. She had the experience with Nasty Gal and was trying to figure out what to do next. She had written this book called *Girlboss* and had kind of built a community around it, along with a social following. She wanted to turn it into a business. I said, "Look, you know, I think you should bootstrap this." But she got mobbed with VCs, and it was easy money. Great valuation. She raised like $10,000,000 or something. Because she took VC money, she had this really wonderful business, but she had to turn it into a $1,000,000,000 thing.

Sam Parr

and this is girlboss

Andrew Wilkinson

So, suddenly, this is "girl boss." She raised all this money and said, "I'm going to build basically a LinkedIn-like social network for female entrepreneurs to connect." We all know that’s like the world's biggest lift; it's almost impossible to start a social network. She ended up running out of cash and getting exhausted. She sold it to Attention Capital, and they basically were just like, "We don't know what to do about this. We shouldn't have bought this." They reached out to us, and we were able to buy it for really, really cheap just because the business was totally distressed. We looked at it and thought, "Okay, let's just go back to basics." This business has almost 2 million social followers and email subscribers. We did basic stuff: we built a daily email newsletter, sold ads, did social ads, and did affiliate marketing. We rebooted the podcast and brought on a great CEO. It's just been this phenomenal base hit. I just got an update from our CEO, Lulu, who's like freaking amazing. Basically, now the business is— I won't say numbers, but it's making as much as we paid for it every year in profit. I think it's probably 5 to 10 times more valuable than what we paid for it, at least. I just love that kind of stuff where we're able to take a business that shouldn't have raised venture capital or kind of failed in venture land and actually make it a sustainable business that will be going for 5 to 10 years at least.

Sam Parr

that's crazy

Shaan Puri

Yeah, that's really cool. I like those. I think there's going to be a bunch of those venture businesses that fail. That's another point. If you're a venture business and you're not going to be able to raise the next round because the whole market has turned or whatever, it's not over. There’s a way to structure these deals. I think most founders just throw in the towel and don't know what to do with that asset. But again...

Sam Parr

shout out

Andrew Wilkinson

To me, there are a lot of these businesses where, let's say, a business gets to $5 or $10 million in revenue, and they're burning $1 million or $2 million a month because they're venture-backed or whatever. To the founder, they're just like, "Okay, well, this is worth nothing. Let's go sell to Facebook, and we'll take it to acqui-hire." They actually will throw out their existing business. That business has value, and people like us at Enduring will buy it and turn it around, making it into something that they'll actually be proud of. So, yeah, I mean, all is not lost.

Shaan Puri

enduring did that with up council that's what that was the example I did

Andrew Wilkinson

totally

Sam Parr

Can we... we gotta do the worst possible punishment. My worst one is personal real estate. I bought real estate over the last two years, and I've made money on all of it so far. Technically speaking, it's all going to beat the stock market. Well, that's easy because the stock market sucks. Some of my investments, like my Airbnb, still have an 8% return or something like that. But it's just a *fucking headache*, dude. I regret buying real estate. I wish I didn't own any real estate, and I wish I just invested in other people's funds. Yeah, that's my worst investment. It's just caused me a disproportional amount of headache.

Shaan Puri

Yeah, that's a good one. Alright, mine is really hard to choose. There are so many losers to choose from this year. So, people know my portfolio is essentially tech stocks and crypto. Tech stocks are down somewhere between 40% to 85% this year, and crypto is down 75% this year, or sometimes 100% in certain cases. I think Luna has to be my pick because it went to 0. That was just like, you know, a 100% loss that happened in like 3 days.

Sam Parr

So, last year, this episode... last year, here's Sean's company to watch: Tara/Luna. That was his answer for the company to watch.

Shaan Puri

to watch and it sure did give you some entertainment

Sam Parr

Yeah, you watched it go down. His prediction was that the Winklevoss twins are going to be richer than Zuckerberg, but not in one...

Andrew Wilkinson

like that

Shaan Puri

that that that is a long term prediction

Sam Parr

but you you bet on luna so so

Andrew Wilkinson

You're gonna double down? This is the question: Are you going to double down on your Winklevoss prediction? What's the timeline, and what's the punishment if you lose?

Shaan Puri

No, no, these are wild. I've been punished. These are supposed to be crazy predictions. These are not supposed to be things I think are going to happen. They're sort of like far-fetched predictions. No, I don't want to double down on that. I would say that's looking way less likely now than it did then. But, you know, it's basically like Facebook's stock got crushed a little bit this year too. I had calculated that... I think I forgot what it is now, but I think Bitcoin would have needed to be at $2,000,000 a coin. Then the Winklevoss twins and Facebook had, like, you know, kept its value or something like that based on how much Bitcoin they owned. I thought, okay, at that point, they'll have surpassed Zuck. But the hedge was always if Zuck owns any Bitcoin, then they can really never pass him. You know, if he put a minority stake in. But I don't think Zuck cares if the Winklevoss twins are rich or not. I don't think that's a concern of his.

Sam Parr

so what's what's yours andrew

Andrew Wilkinson

So, mine is really just venture in general. I've been doing angel investing for over 10 years, and I think I've done well on a cash basis. I've gotten a lot of money back, but I haven't actually had access to that cash the entire time. If I think about it, even if I've made 15 to 30% a year, I haven't had access to that cash. Whereas in my main business, when I buy a business and make a 20 or 30% return, I'm actually getting that cash. I'm compounding it and then I'm investing it, doing more and more. I think psychologically, there's a big difference between owning a whole bunch of businesses and doing $50 million in EBITDA versus owning a bunch of stakes that are liquid in a bunch of venture businesses where maybe you'll get your money back in 10 to 15 years. So, I don't think that it's necessarily saying I don't want to invest in venture going forward, but I think it's been a bad strategy. If my goal is to maximize my capital and feel rich, it's not the best way to do that. I think I'm much better off incubating businesses and buying businesses because it's a very steady 15 to 30% cash return, and I feel it.

Sam Parr

I

Andrew Wilkinson

Feel the win in a much bigger way. I think that, like anyone over the last two years, there are some businesses where I look at the valuation I invested at. I knew it at the time, I sucked it up and was like, "Fuck, you know, this is just the world we're in." But there are some businesses with maybe like $4,000,000 of revenue, and they raised it at like a $100,000,000 valuation. I'm just like, "Okay, that's just gone."

Sam Parr

Yep, well that sucks. Yeah, I don't know what to say. We all just said horrible things that we did this year. I don't...

Shaan Puri

know if it's

Sam Parr

hard to recall

Shaan Puri

just just just bask in the in the in the in the l look at you know you're gonna

Sam Parr

let

Shaan Puri

You can't have a non-error rate. You know, you can't be an investor and not have a portfolio of bad investments or bad decisions, right? That’s not really a thing. If you're going to do this and take the appropriate amount of risk that would yield a reward, you can't have a 0% error rate. So, I don't think it's anything to be shy of. Also, I think a lot of people have portfolios that are down this year just by the nature of what's going on in the market.

Andrew Wilkinson

there's that there's that logic brain coming in to save you

Shaan Puri

Yeah, no, I mean that that's like a... that's where the logic brain is actually useful. Alright, like I learned this in poker too. Like, you're... oh, I had pocket aces, and I literally know people that will fold pocket queens or something like that in poker. Why? Because they're traumatized from the bad beat they got one time. And they're like, "Oh, jacks! I hate jacks!" Like, what do you mean you hate pocket jacks? Why? Just because you got your money in good, but it turned out not the way you wanted? You know, being able to assess the decision and not the result is so key. When I'm making fun of myself for FOMO-ing into investments, it's because I think my decision was bad. Sure, the result was bad, but my decision was bad. I have many investments where I think the decision is good, and the result might be bad for a period of time. That's okay, but being able to separate the two is super important. I can't find this client info. Have you?

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Shaan Puri

sam what topic do you wanna go to which category

Sam Parr

Dude, I want to combine "Book of the Year" and "Favorite Podcast" or "News Person," newsletter, or person you subscribe to. So, I want to do a few actionable things, like the best bits of content. For my favorite person, I start with my favorite person: it's two. You already named one of them, Paul Graham. Dude, Paul Graham is such a beautiful writer! I started reading all of his work again this year. He's such an awesome writer. He talks about money, living, happiness, and raising a family. He's a really good writer; I love reading him. The other one is Cultural Tutor. Do you guys know who Cultural Tutor is on Twitter?

Shaan Puri

never heard of it

Sam Parr

So, it's this person who I don't think is crazy popular, but I'm going to give you an example of a thing that they tweeted. It's called "The Cultural Tutor: A Beautiful Education." That's their thing. They do posts about culture. Let me find a good one, but it's all about culture. Right now, minimalism is a trend. If you look at a lot of new buildings, minimalism is everywhere. The Cultural Tutor will do a thread saying, "This is actually pretty lame" about this architecture. It's pretty boring. They’ll show the ornate stuff that we used to do and explain why we used to do it, as well as why we do minimalism now. It makes you question certain things that we're doing. Another example could be a famous piece of art. They might explain why it was actually revolutionary. For instance, they could discuss the Mona Lisa and why it looks like her eyes are following you. This might not seem interesting now, but it was fascinating back then. They explain how things were done and what was actually revolutionary about that painting. I love The Cultural Tutor; it's a really good follow.

Shaan Puri

that's a good one you said you were gonna combine that with book of the year year

Sam Parr

**Book of the Year: Blitz.** Have you ever read *Blitz*, Andrew? It's about the story of drug use during World War II. A frame-breaking book.

Shaan Puri

I haven't

Andrew Wilkinson

read it but it's it I mean you you've got meth and you've got hitler I mean what could go

Sam Parr

It's a frame-breaking book. Basically, the whole hypothesis was that during World War II, you know how they gave soldiers pieces of chocolate and cigarettes to keep them happy? Well, in Nazi Germany, they gave them meth. One of the reasons it says Hitler was being crazy and making a lot of the decisions that he did—not only was he a hateful, crazy person, but they're saying it was also because he was on meth the whole time and he was going nutty. One of the reasons why he killed himself was that he basically ran out of drugs in the last two weeks in his bunker. What do you got there, Sean? Is that Blitz right?

Shaan Puri

no this is not blitz I'm looking at at the book I think I'm gonna choose but andrew go go next

Andrew Wilkinson

So, my favorite podcast—I'm absolutely obsessed with *Founders*, which is by David Senra. What he basically does is read business biographies and then summarize them really, really well. I've read a lot of business biographies; I really enjoy them. But there are a lot of them where I'm like, "I just... I'm not gonna spend 15 hours of my life learning about JFK's dad." There are always books on my bookshelf that taunt me, and so...

Sam Parr

I read that book the patriarch you can read it it's so good

Andrew Wilkinson

It's... I read about a quarter of it. It was great! He'll do the 1 to 1.5 hour summary, so it's a great way to remind yourself. I read *Titan* a couple of years ago about John D. Rockefeller, and I re-listened to it. It reminded me of a lot of the lessons. Then, it'll actually tell me, "Do I want to read this book? Is this person actually interesting, or just give me a cursory understanding of that person?" So, I absolutely love that one. In terms of books, the one that I loved over the last year is *The Operator*, which is about David Geffen. The guy is an absolute lunatic! It's fascinating. Like, the picture of him... you know, why is he the way he is? A deep dive on his childhood.

Sam Parr

david geffen started he started geffen records

Andrew Wilkinson

Geffen Records... I mean, this guy has touched so many industries, you know? Huge musicians.

Sam Parr

but he's a movie guy too at this.

Andrew Wilkinson

Like, yeah, I mean, it's a fascinating career, but also an incredible investor and capital allocator and stuff. What a fascinating book! It's one of those ones where it's very unflattering, but it's incredible.

Shaan Puri

okay that's good

Sam Parr

worth like 5 or $10,000,000,000 at this. I mean he's like a big deal

Shaan Puri

Alright, I'll do a book. I'm going to have... I got two picks that I thought were good. I only read probably three or four books this year, but this one, *Think on These Things* by Krishnamurti, that's like a life philosophy book that I love.

Sam Parr

You said that was your favorite book one time. I asked you how far into the book you've read, and you said you're on the first three pages.

Shaan Puri

Yeah, actually, I'm only about 30 pages in now. So, I've gone from 3 to 30 in a year. I think this might have been my pick last year too. This book is so heavy, man. It's got like... let me see how far.

Sam Parr

dude it's not that's like 250 pages

Shaan Puri

I'm 110 pages in, and it's an amazing book. The second one is "Richer, Wiser, Happier." Andrew, you've probably read this.

Andrew Wilkinson

it's a

Shaan Puri

Great book for anybody who likes investing. Basically, it's a fun read. So those are my two favorite books that I read this year. Now, for a podcast, newsletter, or person, I'm going to give two shout-outs. One person that's a little under the radar is called **10K Diver**. You can follow this guy on Twitter. So yeah, **10K Diver**. The bio just says, "I help people understand the fundamentals of finance and investing." I think it's called **10K Diver** because it's like the Form 10-K, which is the name of the form or whatever. He gives really great threads about very basic fundamentals of finance. I find myself reading these and thinking, "Oh, surely I know about whatever topic it is." Certainly, I know about stock-based compensation or cash flow. Then you read it and you're like, "I always learn something from it." I think he's a great writer. He's very clear and very helpful. I just think it's a great one to follow. You know, there's a lot of junk food on Twitter, and I would say that **10K Diver** is not junk food. I even took his Maven course.

Andrew Wilkinson

but did you really

Shaan Puri

I only attended like half of the sessions just because, you know, it's hard to make that much time. Super interesting, dude. And, you know, I don't know, the course wasn't like mind-breaking for me, but it's all good stuff. It's all good stuff. I really liked the way this guy thinks. Okay, so that's the person. And, okay, book. So I did book. Alright, we're good. We're good on those. We all three did ours.

Sam Parr

yeah

Shaan Puri

alright cool yeah what what topic you wanna do next

Sam Parr

wild predictions okay

Shaan Puri

what you got

Sam Parr

mine's easy I think mine's easy

Shaan Puri

me to read your wild predictions from last year should I read our predictions

Sam Parr

yeah

Shaan Puri

alright our predictions from last year sam's was

Sam Parr

san francisco is gonna be cool again I

Shaan Puri

think san francisco will be cool again you think you hit that or no

Sam Parr

No, but I don't think I'm... I'm not well off by prediction, but I'm a little early. It's gonna come back, man. San Francisco... I went back there. It is awesome! San Francisco is awesome.

Shaan Puri

Yeah, you said something about the YouTuber Meet Kevin and that his company is going to break out or something like that. I don't know what that prediction was.

Sam Parr

oh yeah I totally was wrong totally was wrong

Shaan Puri

at home diagnostics you said was the industry to watch

Sam Parr

yeah nothing happened there

Shaan Puri

and then you said overrated the creator economy / web 3 nailed it

Sam Parr

yeah I nailed that one andrew

Shaan Puri

Your predictions were that high salary inflation is not here to stay. Companies are going to outsource and offshore talent. What do you think about that?

Andrew Wilkinson

I still think it's right. I think that it just took time. I think we're just seeing it now. Basically, as these tech layoffs happen, I think they're going to go global.

Shaan Puri

And then you said "overrated." You mentioned NFTs. I think we structured this differently last time. We did like "companies to watch" and "overrated things to watch." I said overrated with SPACs, and I think that was right. I said a company to watch was Terra Luna, and that was way wrong. My crazy prediction was that the bookmobile will end up richer than Zuck, which, you know, we already talked about. Okay, so this year, what do you have for a prediction or predictions for 2023?

Sam Parr

So, we structured it differently. But let me say mine too because they're fast. 1. Elon Musk either dies or he...

Andrew Wilkinson

he's a boy

Sam Parr

Or he gets canceled... or he gets canceled in an incredibly serious way, and Tesla stock completely tanks. The second thing is OpenAI. There's something involving regulation that's going to happen because there have already been little bits and pieces. If you Google or if you use OpenAI and you ask them about coal, they say something like, "We think that climate change is wrong," yada yada yada. Or if you ask them about race, they say something like, "Race is a social and cultural construct, and we don't want to give our opinion on this." They kind of skirt around it, but they actually do insert their opinion. I think there's going to be some weird stuff going on where, right now, for example, they'll say, "Hey, we'll give you $100,000 for 10% of your company if you build on top of our platform." There should be all these new tools, but it's all going to be underlined with this potential massive bias that OpenAI has. I think there has to be some type of regulation around it. Do you know what I mean?

Shaan Puri

Yeah, Andrew, what you got? Predictions? By the way, these are supposed to be... we said wild predictions. So again, we're not saying we're sure these are going to happen. These are like sort of interesting predictions.

Andrew Wilkinson

Yes, so you remember like five years ago when everyone was saying, "Apple doesn't innovate anymore; they can't do AI"? What was happening is that Google, at least historically, has innovated in public. They're constantly releasing new features and showing off these kind of half-baked ideas that are in their R&D labs. Whereas Apple has always been very opaque. They'll work on something for seven years, they won't share it, and then all of a sudden, they'll release it. I think that same thing is happening with GPT-3 and AI. I do believe that while right now I can say I'm using GPT-3 instead of Google, I think Google has probably been working on something similar for years—years and years—and is probably very far ahead. Maybe not ahead of GPT-3 necessarily, but they have their own offering. So I just think there are going to be a lot of other players in that space coming out over the next probably three to six months. There will be an ecosystem of offerings similar to AWS, Azure, and Google Cloud. I think it'll be the same thing with GPT-3, Google, maybe Microsoft... I don't know who else.

Shaan Puri

Cool, Sam. I agree with your Elon one. That's one of my predictions. I think he gets canceled in a big way or one of his companies goes broke. I think that is a good wild prediction, but I'm actually not going to predict.

Sam Parr

I think that yeah he he he he's gonna get me too ed I think

Shaan Puri

yeah I feel he already has and somehow didn't he already

Andrew Wilkinson

I mean he already did I mean

Sam Parr

he yeah kinda

Andrew Wilkinson

I think he's uncancelable kind of given all this stuff

Shaan Puri

He's been talking about that it's going to get the number of families happening. I think they're going to cancel the uncancelable, but I'm not really going to predict anything that's like the macro because, a) who the hell knows, and b) who the hell cares? I'm actually going to take a page out of the book of something we respect highly here on MFM: "Call in your own shot." So, my predictions are about myself. Here are my predictions about myself: I predict that this is the year.

Sam Parr

that I get ripped

Shaan Puri

I predict that I will turn the corner. It's not just about getting back in shape; I've never been in this kind of shape before. So, I'm going to get ripped for the first time. I also believe that I'm going to start a company that is special. I don't want to put a dollar amount on it because these special things take time. It's not going to happen in one year, but I'm going to start the thing that will be my legacy. This will be the thing that I'm known for for a very long time—the thing that builds the big wealth, the big empire. I think it's going to happen this year.

Sam Parr

so

Shaan Puri

those are my predictions for myself for 2023

Sam Parr

Well, I'm happy you called your shot. I actually agree with you; I think you're going to do that too. I don't think you're more than likely going to get ripped, but I believe you're going to create that company.

Shaan Puri

you're just giving me that fuel thank you for the fuel

Sam Parr

Are you willing to take drugs to get ripped? No, I'm not willing to take drugs.

Shaan Puri

like the liver king

Sam Parr

Okay, well then, yeah, I think that you're... well, dude, getting ripped is hard, man. I'm pretty ripped right now, and everyone keeps asking me what I did. You know what I did? I just didn't eat. It's really, really a pain in the butt. I don't really like doing it. So, I don't know, like, I don't think you need to be that ripped. What's your definition of "ripped," I guess?

Shaan Puri

visible abs

Andrew Wilkinson

yeah you gotta get to what is it 12% body fat

Sam Parr

12 percent is not bad. You can live a good life and be at 12%. But below 10%, where I am trying to get, it sucks. I'm just hungry and cold.

Shaan Puri

Yeah, I'm not gonna do that, but it'll be visible. Alright, let's do another one. What was the coolest moment of the year for you? What was the coolest moment of the year personally that you had?

Sam Parr

Dude, mine is like... it kinda felt like we crossed the chasm for this podcast being well-known. That's a little... I didn't wanna do a selfish one, honestly. I almost said you selling... Yeah, I almost... I wanted to say you selling the Milk Road. I actually did think that was cool. Seeing you do that, I got a lot of joy out of it and a lot of... even though I wasn't involved, it was like I felt a sense of pride. Like, we came together.

Shaan Puri

key adviser so you know you were involved

Sam Parr

Yeah, so feel free to send me some money. But no, I think like us getting popular this year, it really felt like this is the first time it happened.

Shaan Puri

I agree it's something has changed andrew what about you coolest moment of the year for you

Andrew Wilkinson

So, I've talked about this before, but I feel like if I really am honest, what I like about business—aside from making money and not making my life easier—is meeting and trusting people. You know, I got to know Andrew Huberman this year, and we ended up partnering. So basically, I've got a foundation, and I've been giving a bunch of money away to science. I met Huberman maybe...

Sam Parr

is that who you wrote the check to a year

Andrew Wilkinson

or 2 ago

Sam Parr

just you wrote the check to science

Andrew Wilkinson

Yeah, exactly, just science. But I met Huberman like a year or two ago, and basically we did this thing where when people subscribe to his premium podcast, a bunch of the money goes to funding science and research that he wants to support. I basically said, "Look, I'll double every single dollar that you donate." So we've got this partnership, and I just love that kind of stuff where, oh, would you? I can work with someone who I respect, a benefactor, and do something that I think is valuable.

Shaan Puri

a that's a cool moment you're you've become a benefactor

Andrew Wilkinson

what's what's what do you mean like a patron

Shaan Puri

of science you get to use one of these words that's like from the 1800 when you do things like that

Andrew Wilkinson

yeah it feels good it's fun

Sam Parr

dude and and and + you have an excuse now to hang out with the dreamiest guy on earth andrew huberman

Shaan Puri

yeah totally make sam jealous anytime you want

Sam Parr

for sure

Shaan Puri

Alright, my coolest moment of the year was when you were there for this, Sam. We were at Camp MFM, and we got to go on a tour of Duke's basketball stadium. We were in there, and then we were sitting down. They gave us a talk; it was an hour, and it was a good experience. But there was a moment that made it a keystone memory. I bet Mr. Beast $10,000 that I could hit a shot from half court, and I hit it! The whole thing was incredible.

Sam Parr

on number on number 5 or something yeah

Shaan Puri

Like the third attempt, I was like, "I'll hit this before you." The third attempt, I hit it, Doug Cabrio. It was an amazing, fun moment. It made that trip a little bit more special and memorable.

Sam Parr

did he ever pay you

Shaan Puri

This is where it comes... This is where it gets interesting. It's also actually my biggest loss of the year because he didn't pay me. Then I had to follow up. I followed up two times, three times, and now I'm basically begging for the money. By the third time, you go from like, the first time you kind of crack a joke, you're busting balls a little bit, like, "Hey, buddy." Then the second time you're like, "Hey man, you didn't pay." By the time it's the third one, now this awesome, dope moment has turned into a loss because now I'm having to go, "Yeah..."

Andrew Wilkinson

I think I think I think you need to take him to small claims

Shaan Puri

exactly that's how I'm I'm doing that via imessage and I was like

Sam Parr

we have it on video

Shaan Puri

this is

Sam Parr

we have the bet on we we dude we have the bet on video

Shaan Puri

I know, I know. So, this baller moment of confidence was like, "Hey, betcha $10 I can hit this shot." Then, actually hitting it with everybody there in the center of Cameron's Indoor Stadium turned into a bit of a small boy moment. It was like, "Hey, hey, hey, did you have a chance to... I know you're busy, just..."

Sam Parr

do you

Shaan Puri

think you could I I'll send the details again maybe maybe it's on my end

Sam Parr

dude is he lying about every other donation he's ever had

Shaan Puri

coffeezilla get on it are are there thousands of victims like me

Sam Parr

that's crazy I can't believe he didn't pay you he doesn't seem like someone who would do that

Shaan Puri

His assistant... he's like, "Oh, fuck! Sorry, my assistant did... I'm gonna have to yell at him."

Sam Parr

Yeah, right. Like, okay, let's do the craziest, most delusional person of the year that we met. This one's for us. It's probably easy—it's Billy McFarland. Did you hear that? Oh yeah, did you hear that interview, Sean or Andrew?

Andrew Wilkinson

No, I didn't hear it. I don't like when you guys interview people like that because I know it's interesting and stuff, but I feel like if even only 5% of people hear that and go, "Hey, he actually sounds like a good guy," I just think he's going to go and screw more people over. I don't know, what do you guys think? I didn't... and Sean.

Shaan Puri

I didn't finish his sentence. Those bad things he goes and listens to all in. Instead, he doesn't listen to the episode; he goes on strike.

Sam Parr

sean wholeheartedly disagrees with you I think

Shaan Puri

Yeah, I totally disagree. I think, you know, this podcast is our vehicle to have conversations with interesting people. Everybody's an adult; they should judge for themselves whether they think this person's full of shit or deserves a second chance or whatever. On the pod itself, he told us what he was doing, and literally with one pause, I just said, "That's a horrible idea." I actually felt bad that I was that brutal about it, but it really was, I thought, a horrible idea. I felt the need to just say it. So, I think it's one thing if you invite them on and they just, like, suck up to people. The other is to be like, "Dude, what the hell were you thinking?" Or they're like, "Oh, you know, I just thought this..." Are you serious? Like, really? Are you going to look at me with a straight face and say that this was all just an honest mistake? You had to have known, right? So, I think as long as you are real with your questions, then it's all good. But that's my, you know, my opinion.

Andrew Wilkinson

I just think it's like... it's giving airtime to people that are bad, right? Like, I would say Billy Macfarlane is probably a psychopath, right? Bernie Madoff, obviously.

Shaan Puri

documentary on netflix coming out in 3 days are you gonna watch that

Andrew Wilkinson

bernie madoff is dead

Shaan Puri

that's so good there's been documentaries

Andrew Wilkinson

If you had Bernie Madoff on your podcast and you were like, "Hey, so what happened? Tell us your story," even if you kind of call him out, if he's a real psychopath, he's pretty charming and believable. You listen to him, and there's going to be a percentage of people that hear that. The difference with Madoff is he's in jail. Right? Like Billy McFarland, I don't get. I have no idea. You know, he served his time, sure, but he's probably going to go on and do more sketchy stuff. I don't know any of these people who have a pattern of behavior of doing psychopathic, fraudulent things. I just don't think they should get any airtime, frankly.

Shaan Puri

yeah okay fair enough I think there's a lot of people who would agree with you I don't personally but

Sam Parr

Most probably do, but I actually am partially on Sean's side. I am mostly on Sean's side, but I do feel guilt sometimes. There's another person who Sean wants to have on that I think there's not a chance we should.

Andrew Wilkinson

Imagine this: here's how I would tell you to think about this. You know Sam, you've told me stories of guys who... I remember you told me there was some advertiser who was screwing you over and not paying you. You felt very cheated. And then there's Sean, that guy that you sued, who you felt like was chiseling you, the landlord or whatever. Now, let's say I have a podcast and I say, "Well, there's two sides to every story, and he's fascinating. I'm going to go have that guy on my podcast as the victim." You'd be like, "What the fuck?" I would too.

Sam Parr

but I was disappointed in your time ask that question I would say ask that question

Shaan Puri

As long as you actually ask the questions and you're not just giving them a chance to lie or say something that's obviously BS, but you let them skate on it. That's what happened with Sam Bankman-Fried.

Andrew Wilkinson

Yeah, but look at Tai Lopez. Look at Tai Lopez. Tai Lopez got legitimized by being on MFM. A lot of people heard him and went, "You know what? He's not a bad guy." And, you know, Sam kinda likes him and whatever. And like, what has he been doing over the last...?

Sam Parr

wait wait what did I do I didn't do anything wrong with

Shaan Puri

that anymore

Andrew Wilkinson

You said, "You were like, yeah, I met him. I met him in a hotel, and he was actually a really nice guy." Right? And it's like, of course he is. He's a psycho; he's charming.

Sam Parr

I like everyone

Shaan Puri

I like everyone to respect the audience. I believe that you should have the opportunity to hear it and make your own decision. I don't pretend that I'm your parent, legitimizing them or telling you they're good or bad or whatever. I'm just letting you see them. If you see them and you decide that they're great, great! If you decide that we didn't ask tough questions and you can't make a decision, that's on you.

Sam Parr

But Andrew, you promote Bill Ackman, sure. Like I...

Andrew Wilkinson

absolutely do he's my business partner

Sam Parr

and I'm not saying I actually don't know all the details of the business

Shaan Puri

in the same category

Sam Parr

Well, a lot... I'm not saying I do, but a lot of people do, don't they, Andrew? Like, that's objective. You could at least say that a lot of people do think that he's...

Shaan Puri

what did bill actually do then it's on on considered controversial

Andrew Wilkinson

what did he do exactly that would be like fraudulent or something like that

Sam Parr

I mean

Andrew Wilkinson

Bill has made some investments that have turned out badly, but I don't think he's predatory in any way. I think Bill...

Shaan Puri

is a great investor this is your

Andrew Wilkinson

last investment

Shaan Puri

you know legitimate is when he went

Sam Parr

on what's

Shaan Puri

The MLM [Multi-Level Marketing] and he was like... I... The whole market's... He basically was like, "Hell is coming," blah blah blah, but didn't disclose that he had basically a giant short position. Yeah, maybe caused a panic, maybe didn't.

Andrew Wilkinson

No, but he had already... If you actually look, he wrote a letter about this. He'd already sold almost his entire position. He had like 1 or 2% left. I spoke to Bill two weeks before that, and he was freaking the fuck out, similar to that.

Sam Parr

cab sequel

Andrew Wilkinson

that he was freaking out

Shaan Puri

benefit greatly if people started selling right he he he had a giant

Andrew Wilkinson

short break

Shaan Puri

so he made a bunch of money

Andrew Wilkinson

He wasn't... no, no, no. I think it's a big misunderstanding. If you actually look at the timeline, he'd already sold out of that position when he went on CNBC.

Sam Parr

what about herbalife well he was betting against herbalife

Shaan Puri

he was calling it herbalife

Andrew Wilkinson

I mean, Herbalife... he went out and he said, "This is a multi-level marketing scheme." What ended up happening is the FTC investigated it and they gave them a **$200,000,000** fine. They got up to the point of saying, "Hey, is this an MLM?" They settled with them for **$200,000,000**. It was the largest FTC fine ever. The FTC commissioner was asked, "Is Herbalife a multi-level marketing pyramid scheme?" and she said, "It's not... not one," right? Because she was legally bound by not calling it that. So basically, Bill was right, and that was an instance where he lost a **shitload** of money trying to fight a bad guy.

Shaan Puri

did that really happen I look I gotta find that sense here

Andrew Wilkinson

by the

Sam Parr

way I'm not saying bill ackman sucks I think I'm I'm I like bill ackman

Shaan Puri

but you're not

Sam Parr

I'm not saying no. That's not what I'm implying. I'm saying that some people maybe think that he's full of it, right?

Andrew Wilkinson

I I think yes absolutely there's people that are critical I think there's a great quote on this

Sam Parr

I'm not saying he is

Andrew Wilkinson

The tallest blade of grass is the first to get cut. I think Bill is very loud, and he is always confident. He's usually right, but not always. So, someone like that, I think when they're not right, everyone loves to criticize them.

Sam Parr

yeah yeah I'm not saying I don't

Shaan Puri

I think he's in the category where he's got, you know, the... I don't know of any accusations about stuff like that. I think some people are just like, "He's not as good. He loses money. He's not as good of an investor as he says or his fame would lead you to believe." That's a criticism, but that's like any... that's like criticizing someone's skill. LeBron James is not as good as Michael Jordan or whatever, right? Like, that's different than saying somebody is, you know, a...

Andrew Wilkinson

Con artist... it's like fixating on Warren Buffett buying Dexter's shoe and it not working out. Then saying, "Or, you know, Warren Buffett did some deals in his early career where he bought a business and he ended up having to lay a lot of people off." Right now, you could build a narrative that, "Well, everyone says Warren Buffett's so great, but what about this and what about that?" But if you look at it, and there are 100 investments and 10 of them didn't go well, you can fixate on the 10. However, you can also look at the long-term performance, which is compounded at 20% or maybe 25%... something crazy, maybe not quite that, but something exceptional. So again, like he's my business partner; obviously, I'll defend him.

Sam Parr

I'm not by the way but yeah I

Andrew Wilkinson

wanna be clear think he's anywhere near

Sam Parr

those guys

Andrew Wilkinson

I'm not saying

Sam Parr

That's crazy. I'm not saying I think he sucks. I actually like him a lot from what I read about him. I'm just saying... my point is that a lot of people, a lot of awesome people, have haters. And just because you have a lot of haters doesn't necessarily mean... I don't think you should... we shouldn't have you on. That's my whole point.

Andrew Wilkinson

But imagine, okay, you guys have a newspaper, right? Effectively, you guys own the New York Times of tech startup bros. That's what MFM [My First Million] is. You guys have this huge audience.

Shaan Puri

quote you on that

Andrew Wilkinson

Would it be ethical for the editor of The New York Times to put an op-ed from Bernie Madoff on the front cover? Right?

Shaan Puri

it was not an op ed it's an interview it's it's a big big difference

Andrew Wilkinson

I totally agree. I hear you guys. I know you want to stir the pot, and it's good listening. I just, for me, hate when these weasels get airtime.

Sam Parr

Let's get back then. Yeah, let's move on. Alright, Andrew, who's the most delusional person you've met this year?

Andrew Wilkinson

So, okay, it's a delusional person who I think is amazing. You guys probably will say the same person—it's Brian Johnson. Yeah, I met Brian almost a year ago, and I remember sitting down with him and just looking at him. He's like a translucent, glowing twilight vampire. He just looks... if you cut his arm off, there are circuits under there. He's so incredibly well-spoken. And like you, Sam, I think you said he's like the Elon but behind the scenes and quiet, right?

Sam Parr

he's special

Andrew Wilkinson

So, I think he's amazing. I think he's like dedicating his life to basically being a test case for the rest of us. I really admire him, and I think he's really...

Sam Parr

How did he look in person? Did he look unwell? He almost looked a little ill; like he was so skinny.

Andrew Wilkinson

Yeah, he was so pale that there was no pigment in his skin. Like, literally... literally looked like... both that movie with the... what is it? The robot guy? *Alien*? *Alien* with the robot guy. Like just totally pale humanoid.

Shaan Puri

That's my pick too: Brian Johnson, for the exact same reason. So, we'll move to the next one. He was, you're right, crazy and delusional in the best way possible. I mean that as a compliment. Okay, did you guys have another category that you really liked your answer for? Does anybody think they got something good? Because we can just go to those.

Andrew Wilkinson

the the relationship hacks and the

Shaan Puri

cost control let's do relationship hack

Andrew Wilkinson

What you got? So, they always say that the best first date is an adrenaline kind of event, right? You want to go on a hike; you want to get your heart pounding. Maybe you go and do like ropes... you know, those... what are they called? The rope swings through the forest? Whatever. Something that gets your heart pounding. When someone associates you with a peak experience, like a physical feeling of peak experience, that's very positive and it bonds you. The same thing is true with alcohol. So, I kind of stopped drinking maybe like 7 or 8 years ago, and I've kind of mourned the ability to go and, you know, down a pint with someone. Because they always end up telling you everything. They tell you about their business, the problems they're having, and what's going on with their wife. It's like hanging out once drunk is like hanging out 10 times sober. So, what I've been doing is I've been inviting people that I would otherwise have a meeting with over to my house, and we'll do a really long sauna and a cold plunge.

Sam Parr

that's so funny

Andrew Wilkinson

I've been finding that I feel so incredibly bonded to people because my body is pumped full of all these endogenous drugs. It's been really good. It's been kind of like drinking with someone.

Sam Parr

Dude, can I tell you what mine was? Here's... I'm gonna read it word for word: "Invite people, have them come over for dinner, and cook for them. Then we take ice baths together after dinner."

Shaan Puri

dinner what are you doing

Sam Parr

before do do you tell like

Shaan Puri

the best some trunks or how how do you prepare you just spray it

Sam Parr

On them... or sometimes, I just spray it on them. I have a towel already and I have shorts. It's so funny that that's exactly what mine is. Another relationship hack that I have is I bring my wife to almost everything. It feels like a family gathering. Also, she's like, well, *hot* and well-read, and can have a discussion. So it automatically makes me seem better.

Shaan Puri

oh you're the guy with the hot book smart wife oh

Sam Parr

Yeah, and then, Andrew, I had the same thing. Another thing that I typically don't do, and I think this is the worst way to hang out, is while exercising. I hate when people say, "Let's go get a workout together." I'm like, "I don't want to." I never want to do that, ever. I will never do a workout and hang out.

Andrew Wilkinson

yeah I want silence same

Shaan Puri

I'm the opposite I love love a workout together that's a great that's a great idea I've had multiple listeners from the pod be like hey I'm in town when's your workout like I'll just come swing by and we'll just do it together and I was like oh that's perfect I don't wanna separately beat you and I'll learn so much about you just seeing how you work out that this is like how you deal with like you know adversity like you know how you're how are you as a hang you know do you work out like all these things it's a it's a great tell alright I got 2 little hacks the first is a principle that I've had for a long time it's called don't attend the party host the party this is my I have a rule I don't attend other people's events typically unless it's a real good friend who really wants me to but I will host so I think hosting is it is let's say 5 times the work but I think it's 500 times the payoff when you actually host the part the the event so we camp mfm is a perfect example of this and when you host it the other the other hack in this is make it epic because it's going to be more fun for you to it's like all the logistical work is kinda the same but if you just use your creativity to make it more interesting people will come and they'll have like a whole memory to you know a whole experience with you so with camp mfm the way we did it where we flew to this place we had the basketball trainer mister beast and hassan dhanaj were there like interesting people were there we all stayed in you know an airbnb a giant house together like that was a instead of just doing a networking event we made it fun and we made it different and I think and then you get a bunch of benefits of being the one who hosted it so that's the first one the second one I would say the actual relationship hack with with my wife is so I'm a pretty chill dude but I do I do have one achilles' heel which is I'm very very very impatient and what that means is like you know my wife is like slow to leave the house trying to go somewhere it's like oh dude why does this take so I feel like I've wasted half my life waiting to leave the house you know you know just with kids it gets like really slow so I've always had this impatience thing and I've tried to be like alright I'm gonna be more patient I'm gonna be more patient and I realized that that was actually a fool's errand that the way to be more patient for me is to get in a fight in the morning and what I started doing was I hired this mma trainer and I would wake up early I do my workout in the morning and I would spar and what I found is that if I spar in the morning I've gotten a really hard strenuous like endorphin kick you know done the rest of the day I'm just sorta like yo it's whatever like I I can wait yeah oh you're gonna take take an extra 10 minutes you wanna change your shirt because maybe this one's a little maybe it's a little too hot is it go ahead go change your shirt no problem I'll be here at the front door chilling and I have become such a more patient person just by doing a sparring session in the morning it's a pretty extreme step to take but it is so far the only thing that has gotten me to change this like really terrible personality trait after so long

Sam Parr

nothing like getting punched in the face I was I I think I told you that

Shaan Puri

You did tell me that. The other experience I had like this was when I went skydiving once in the morning. The rest of the day, you couldn't stress me out if you tried. I was completely immune to stress. I think there's something to this: having a very exhilarating or adrenaline kick in the morning just makes the rest of the day completely non-stressful. That doesn't mean you don't do anything; it just means you don't stress.

Andrew Wilkinson

You do it! We were talking about the cold plunges, and I was just listening to a Huberman Lab [podcast]. He was talking about this exact thing. So, when you're in cold, it obviously stresses your body. You get a huge dopamine spike, and you get adrenaline, norepinephrine, all that kind of stuff. He was saying that if you do stressful things while you're in the cold plunge, it adapts you to dealing with stress better. So you should definitely get a cold plunge and then argue with your wife while you're in it or something!

Shaan Puri

Sounds smart. So, that's the best relation pack. What's the other one you said? Favorite tool or product? Product under $1,000. What do you guys got?

Andrew Wilkinson

So, I always have this problem. I'll travel to a city and I'll try to think of, you know, I'll be like, "Okay, I'm going to New York on this day. Who do I know in New York?" It'll be whoever's top of mind, whoever I've just been texting with or something. I'll go and I'll have a couple of meetings, and then I'll leave. Then I'll remember, you know, it's like when you leave the grocery store and you realize there's like 3 or 4 important things you forgot. I always realize, "Oh shit, I forgot to meet all these people I really wanted to see." So, I've tried a couple of different tools for this, but I found one I really liked. It's this one called Clay. It's a personal CRM, which we all hate—I know it's like a horrible business—but they do a really good job of basically tapping into your Twitter, your LinkedIn, your iMessage, all your email, all the places where you contact people, and building a...

Sam Parr

huge clay.earth

Andrew Wilkinson

Clay.earth, yeah. So basically, it's a huge database of all the people you know. What I do now is I go into Clay and I'll just type in "New York," and it'll show me everyone in New York. Then I don't miss people, and that's been huge.

Sam Parr

this is a beautiful website

Shaan Puri

Yeah, I really downloaded the app. I tried it, but I churned right away because I was just like, "Same problem with all CRMs for me." You get out what you put in, and I was just not willing to put in enough.

Andrew Wilkinson

But there's no... I don't use it. I don't update it. It's just when I go traveling; it's just a database of people I know and where they live.

Sam Parr

Can I hit mine? It's MyBodyTutor, and I don't know if Sean, if that's yours as well, but have you heard about MyBodyTutor, Andrew? No? Very simple. Alright, here's what it is: I spend $600 a month, and every day my coach, her name's Heather, calls me and says, "What are you going to eat today?" I tell her, and she says, "Yesterday, according to your MyFitnessPal, you ate this, this, and this. This thing was bad. How'd that make you feel?" I say, "I feel horrible. I'm not going to do it again today." And she just shames me or educates me on why I made a good or bad decision. We work backwards from whichever goal I want. It's a 5-minute phone call, and that's been the best tool I've ever used. That's a good one. That's all it is.

Shaan Puri

I'm a pretty disorganized guy, so my favorite tools or products have been the ones that help me get organized. I have two that kind of saved my ass this year. I don't know, Sam, did you, when you were at The Hustle, ever have a bookkeeper? Yes? And do you remember life before a bookkeeper and life after a bookkeeper?

Sam Parr

Before, it was stressful. Now I know that I didn't understand the difference between revenue and cash flow. I didn't understand that you take expenses and amortize them. I didn't understand all of that stuff, so it was as if I was driving at nighttime without headlights on.

Shaan Puri

perfect way to describe it that's how I've been my whole life and I would always wonder man how do these other people have their shit together how is it you know tax season comes around I'm just like scrambling and it's like the worst version of cramming for a test and so this year I basically totally revamped my financial like hygiene game with a bookkeeper and a tax person that I love and I'm gonna shout them both out because they're amazing they were they were so amazing I did invest in both of the companies because I was like I have to like you know I I believe in this you know because they saved my ass so one is called kik so I think it's kick.co is the url and it's basically if you go to the website I like their tagline it says self driving bookkeeping so basically what they do is they just say connect your bank your credit cards and it's like everything it's like your amazon you just click connect connect connect connect connect boom it's all your books and then they have bookkeeper and she calls me and she's like here's how you're doing like here's how you're pacing here's what you know here's some things you should be thinking about here's how we could save you money you know blah blah blah and not like not like spend less but more like tax wise like here's some things that you could do and so bookkeeping was the first one and then how much is this all my books are together super cheap it's like I don't know it's like $99 or $100 $199 a month or something like that it's like if anybody if you're a like the one big thing is they they do this for like kind of like small small businesses like sort of like llc types s corps or creators so like if you're a youtuber or a twitch creator or podcaster most of them have don't treat their creator business like a business and you totally should it is a business and I think also the law has now changed so starting next year I think they have to do like the quarterly estimated taxes and things like that like dude 99% of creators have no idea what this stuff is or how to do it and so so I love this thing this has been like kind of a game changer for me on having my my p and l my cash flow my balance sheet all of it just like very clean and then then that gets handed to the other service gelt and so what gelt does is kind of amazing I don't know how much of this I'm I'm supposed to say or allowed to say it I don't even think they want me shouting it out because it's like

Sam Parr

dude I just signed up

Shaan Puri

wait list only

Sam Parr

I just signed up I just signed up with gelt

Shaan Puri

are you on the wait list or you you actually started using it

Sam Parr

I dm'd him and I have a call set up with him

Shaan Puri

Guy Tal is this incredible guy. He's an entrepreneur. So, for the best thing, I've met many accountants and tax strategy people. I literally walked in and felt like I was walking into a meeting, you know, with the CIA or something like that with the IRS. Nick Hooper said this, right? He goes, "Yeah dude, 95% of accountants and tax strategy people, they act like government agents." He's like, "You can't even..." You're just asking questions like, "How should I structure this differently in order to..."

Sam Parr

and they can't answer it

Shaan Puri

it's like they they won't

Sam Parr

well it depends

Shaan Puri

They're not creative, first of all. They don't even give you ideas. It's like if you have the idea, they can say yes or no, but it's like, "Dude, where am I supposed to come up with all these ideas from?" So, like, they don't give you ideas, first of all. And secondly, they're like, "Well, did you spend more than 22 hours doing this?" It's like, "Dude, I don't know. I wasn't keeping track of that." But like, if I say yes, what happens? If I say no, what happens? I need to understand. Could you just disarm this? It's not even like, "Help me cheat." It's like, literally just don't make this stressful. That has been my big problem with this. So, Gelt is kind of amazing because Tal is a founder, an entrepreneur. He sold his last company and he's like, "Dude, I just hated taxes." So, I decided to create the tax firm I wish existed. And they're amazing. They take your books and then what they do is they're more like, "Yo, have you thought about structuring your corporations in this way? Because then you can get the advantage of QSBS while still maintaining this advantage." They do everything clean; they do everything by the book. But they feel more like your friend helping you do this than the other way around. These guys probably saved me... I don't know how much they saved me, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was seven figures of what I've saved using this thing. It's the first time I've been not stressed on the subject of bookkeeping and taxes. That has been a very nice feeling for me to have versus this scramble and always feeling like there was some adult class that I missed, that I slept through, and now here's the test. That's how taxes always felt for me. I slept through the class and everybody else took it. Everybody else is prepared, and I don't know what the heck I'm doing. Now, finally, I feel like, "Okay, I have my notes to take this test."

Sam Parr

dude I I

Andrew Wilkinson

Feel like it's one of those things that's shocking how many business people just don't know how to read a balance sheet, a P&L, and a cash flow statement. If you want to learn, Khan Academy has an amazing introductory course. It takes about an hour, and you'll learn everything you need to know.

Shaan Puri

By the way, did you guys hear this? The IRS hired like some absurd number of new auditors.

Sam Parr

8 was it like 18,000 or

Shaan Puri

Something like that... 80,000 or more. I don't know, like the IRS is hiring new agents. I think they hired 87,000 new hires, and so I think there's going to be a **huge** number of audits. That's why I wanted to be super buttoned up with everything. Just because, oh man, that's another time suck if you get audited—dealing with all that crap. You know, I don't think they hire these people to do nothing. It's $80 billion in new funding and 87,000 tax agents. Isn't that insane?

Sam Parr

That's crazy! They're going to have a lot of work cut out for them. I think we should almost wrap up. Do we want to do one or two more?

Shaan Puri

let's do 1 or 2 more what are your favorite ones

Andrew Wilkinson

Yeah, let's do one. What's a really good one? What about the biggest change or adjustment you're making? Yeah, I think that's three.

Sam Parr

that's all I have

Shaan Puri

go go sam

Sam Parr

So, I have a new thing that I'll launch. It's live, but I'll announce it later. I'm hiring a CEO for it; I've already done that, and I've never done that early on. I also am doing close to... I'm being less of a dictator, and I'm also being less metrics-driven. This sounds like the freaking douchiest thing ever, but I'll say it: I'm more vibe and energy-driven. Basically, with the hustle and like my last company, I was by the book. It was like, "Alright, I want to see projections. We're going to nail it. The metrics say this, therefore..."

Shaan Puri

I could see you putting a metric on the vibe too he'd be like we're an 87 on vibe this week guys

Sam Parr

Well, like for all my companies, I'm like, "Look, you've gotta do this many outbound calls." We're going with whatever the AB metric is; this is what it is. I just filed the data and I was like, "I don't care." Then it was very much a dictatorship where I said, "My rule or my way or the highway." I'm trying to be a little bit calmer for my next thing, and I think I'll make way more money that way.

Shaan Puri

That's a great one! Great adjustment, Andrew. What you got? What's the biggest change or adjustment you're making in your business life in 2023?

Andrew Wilkinson

So, last year, I don't know if I said this, but my big goal was conquering email. I was overwhelmed by it; it was stressing me out. Now, I've built a system. I've fully delegated it, and I've got someone dedicated to managing my email. I really only get 10 or 15 emails that I have to respond to, and everything else is triaged, responded to, and dealt with. So, I've conquered email. The problem is now I get a lot of iMessages, like texts and stuff, and I'm going, "I don't know how to conquer that," other than changing my number, which seems messed up. I'm trying to figure that out. If anyone has any ideas, please tweet at me because it seems like there's no way. If someone has your number, they're going to get to you. I have a really hard time not responding to texts; I feel kind of guilty. So, I'd love to hear from you.

Sam Parr

just getting

Shaan Puri

like cold texts from strangers is that the problem

Sam Parr

dude I get so many of those

Andrew Wilkinson

Not that it's just... I mean, I get cold texts for sure, but it's more just like there are so many people I've given my number out to. If someone doesn't get an email response from me, sometimes they'll try and go there. I think some people have found my number online. It's just becoming too much. With email, you can kind of turn it off. I'll be putting my kids down for bed and reading a Kindle book on my phone, and I'll be getting hit up with texts. It's just the ability to break into your consciousness.

Sam Parr

would you just get a new number sucks

Andrew Wilkinson

yeah I was thinking about it but I've had my number since I was like 15 it feels messed up to do

Sam Parr

I know but I've thought about doing that as well

Shaan Puri

Sam, okay, so you did yours. Andrew, you did yours. My biggest adjustment is knowing when to use my impulsiveness. I'm an extremely impulsive person, and that works in about 8 out of 10 situations. One of the situations it doesn't work in is when I'm very impulsive with picking businesses to start. Yeah, I will just start a business instantaneously. I will go and start making it happen, and it's really fun. That wave and that thrill is so addictive. Then, 11 months later, I'm like, "Okay, now I have this business. Was this the business that I wanted to have?" Because I can't do that many of these at the same time. So, is this the right one?

Sam Parr

are you happy you started your ecom thing

Shaan Puri

No, if I could go back and just pick a different project, I would. The same thing goes for the Milk Road. Part of the reason I sold it was that I thought, "I don't think this is the project that I want to work on every year for the next three years." So, if I don't want to work on it for the next three years, I should just sell it now. If I have a good offer, I should take it. But that's kind of a **shitty feeling**. There's a celebration in selling, but there's also a bit of a failure. I've been saying this for a while: I want to work on a project that I don't want to sell. Like this podcast—time has flown by. This is the third year we're doing the 1,000,000 awards, which means this podcast is at least three years old. I could keep going; I would do this for free. I was doing this for free. I was going to do this at a loss, so this is the right type of project for me. It's one that I would literally do if there was no money involved. I don't count the days or the hours. I'm not about the metrics. I know it's going to keep going up because we'll just keep trying to do a better and better job. I have fun doing it, and it's not a drag on my lifestyle. This has been the only project I've selected correctly. I would argue that every single business I've started since the age of 21 was the wrong pick. It was always just the impulsive pick. It was like, "Someone should do this. Dude, I bet I could do that. Dude, I would just do this, this, and this." Alright, let me just do it. And then, sure enough, I'm looking for the exit later because it wasn't really the right project. So, I'm trying to find the big change. I'm going to find the project that's in my zone of genius, the perfect project for me. It's one I enjoy doing, and I'm not building it for some future payoff. I'm doing it because I like doing it. That is the project that I'm most interested in. If that changes later, okay, that's fine. I'm not saying I have to do it until I'm 99 years old, but I'm not doing it just on a whim. So, I'm going to be patient and select the project properly.

Sam Parr

that's good it's about time I've been telling you that for 10 years

Shaan Puri

the best lessons are the ones that you that you have to relearn 10 10 times over

Andrew Wilkinson

the so the other one was best business idea you wish someone to end

Sam Parr

on start

Andrew Wilkinson

yeah do you guys wanna do that yeah let's end on that

Sam Parr

Tell me, why are your washer and dryer two different machines? This is the craziest thing ever! Why do I have to get out of bed and remember to put my wet clothes into the dryer? It's ridiculous. This needs to be one machine!

Shaan Puri

that's honestly that is one of the smartest

Andrew Wilkinson

things that you're saying?

Sam Parr

It's it's crazy to me it's crazy to me that that it's 2 different things

Andrew Wilkinson

that that actually exists and you're in one washer dryer I'm just looking

Sam Parr

at the yeah but it kinda no

Andrew Wilkinson

it's in it's in best buy home depot

Sam Parr

they're not that great yet this is

Andrew Wilkinson

a thing

Sam Parr

They're not that great yet. I use them in Europe, and they're only okay. But it needs to be the norm. This needs to be the norm.

Shaan Puri

Yeah, yeah. If you're working on AI, crypto, or self-driving cars, quit and figure this one out. We gotta have our priorities in order. You know how many people are wasting time on laundry?

Andrew Wilkinson

look at

Sam Parr

dude the like it's like

Andrew Wilkinson

Look at James Dyson. Look at James Dyson! He's worth **$18 billion** and he just thought, "Vacuums are terrible. I'm going to rethink those." And man, he could've been working on AI, but no, he chose something else.

Shaan Puri

fryer machine next to our dishwasher machine

Sam Parr

Thank you! I agree, dude. Like, have you ever noticed how the inside of a refrigerator, no matter how rich you are, always looks like shit? We need a better organizer or something for that. Some of these day-to-day problems, I think, need to be improved. Particularly, we'll start with the washer and dryer; it needs to be one machine.

Shaan Puri

okay I like that one andrew what you got that

Andrew Wilkinson

So, mine... I tweeted about this. There are all these private jets out there flying around all over the world.

Sam Parr

tell you tell me about it

Andrew Wilkinson

People will fly somewhere and they don't need a return flight, or they're going to go there for two weeks or three weeks or whatever. So the plane actually flies back empty, just with the pilots on it. I think this is truly insane. This is like **$1,000,000,000** getting lit on fire every month with just jet fuel and empty planes. I don't know what the solution is. I know there are people that have tried this, but it seems like an incredibly inefficient, disjointed world. Someone needs to crack this and create a central database of basically every plane that's available. Let's think about who owns private jets. It's very, very rich people. Very rich people are usually business people and are logical. Do they care about having someone else fly back if it pays for all the fuel and stuff? Probably not. Maybe I'm wrong.

Sam Parr

On that, like Gucci, where it's like, "Well, I don't want to sell my unsold Gucci clothes. I'd rather just burn them to keep the value up."

Andrew Wilkinson

Sure, yeah, I don't know, maybe. But anyway, I do think there's a lot of people who would certainly want to get compensated for that if it was easy. I think someone needs to crack this.

Shaan Puri

yeah that's a that's a good one okay I'm gonna go with the school for the starving artist okay so I've met a lot of people in life who like to do different artsy things you know photography film you know met somebody who was like you know they like they're like oh yeah I fell in love with photography because I would hang up the freaking prints and like let them dry like whatever you know whatever that shit is of you know coloring you know blah blah blah drawing there's all these art art artistic things and I would say most people give up on those passions or things because it's really really hard to make a living doing it or is it that's what I wanna answer because now that I'm doing this ecom thing I now pay a lot of money to photographers it's just that they had to be branded as photographers who understand how to do product photography or commercial photo shoots my wife when she was in business school was just doodling on her paper board and somebody walked by and luckily they saw that and they go did you draw that and she was like oh yeah sorry I've I'm paying attention I promise he's like no no no I don't care like but if you can draw that I have a job for you it's called graphic facilitation you could make $1,000 a day just by going to these meetings and conferences for these businesses and you draw on a giant whiteboard what they're talking about so they have a visual takeaway at the end of it and she made more money than me for a long time doing this thing she would have never known how to turn her art into money and so I think somebody should create an art school for people who have artistic talents but wanna be rich for who have artistic talents but they wanna make a living doing it and not just be a starving artist for their whole life I think you should create a specific school for this and all the courses are things where you take an artistic trait but you teach them how to do it in the commercial way and they can make money even while they're in school doing this like you know how big of a shortage there is of video editors now that youtube and tiktok are so huge or you know again commercial photography or drawing or all these different different artistic things so I think somebody should create the school for the starving artist where they're no they're not gonna starve anymore and get the get the artists that are willing to sell out like 25% and just like do this like you see this girl on tiktok she does these she'll take like a like doctor pepper will pay her like $1,000,000 to this tiktok where she does these like crazy slow mo zoom in water dripping on the side and she makes this epic like like video trailer of a doctor pepper she makes a doctor pepper look like it's the unveiling of a new you know rocket by spacex and she's just really talented at that and brands are willing to pay her for that type of marketing you know there's a lot of people out there who could do that they just didn't connect the dots

Sam Parr

well what are you gonna call it you gotta have some cute ass name

Shaan Puri

have it yet that's the only hold that's the only hold up I'm I'm not gonna I'm not gonna start till I have the perfect name you know

Sam Parr

Me, do we... Andrew, you look like you just got your first communion. You have an angelic face and an angelic look. It doesn't matter how rich and successful you become, you still look like this little perfect communion boy.

Andrew Wilkinson

Oh, thank you! I'm working on becoming a Twilight vampire like Brian. That's my other goal this year. I gotta... what's the thing he eats every morning? The *figgy pudding* or whatever?

Sam Parr

it's like nut pudding

Andrew Wilkinson

on that whole thing yeah nutty pudding that's right

Sam Parr

your face looks more trim

Andrew Wilkinson

oh thank you I feel like you say that every time I come on

Shaan Puri

it's maybe I'm wasting a lot just like a crazy tan have you just ever come back looking puerto rican

Andrew Wilkinson

My problem is I tan really, really well on my arms and face, but I cannot tan on my body. So, I have a very famous farmer tan.

Sam Parr

have you tried taking off your shirt

Andrew Wilkinson

no this is yeah sure I should do that

Shaan Puri

I want you to come on. Do you have any tan? I want you to look like, you know, Ricky Martin. So, you know, just like you need to come back at least like a third Colombian in your tan next time.

Andrew Wilkinson

Here's the deal. Okay, you... and I'm serious. You get to 8% body fat, I will go to a tanning salon. I will go in one of those stand-up tanners, and I will get really tanned and come on.

Shaan Puri

no you have

Sam Parr

to show me the 30%%

Shaan Puri

you got a deal

Andrew Wilkinson

Okay, well, no, no. 12... 8. It's crazy. 12 is like... 12 is like soft abs. I want like crazy shredded.

Sam Parr

he well he'll look shredded because he's dark he'll just look shredded if he gets to 12

Shaan Puri

Like 12 minutes... I'm going to have to sacrifice my life to do this. I think 12 is a more than fair deal.

Andrew Wilkinson

okay okay this is a deal what's the what's the timeline is this within the year or when is this

Shaan Puri

Whenever I do it, this is a lifelong bet. If I ever get there, if I ever send you a picture, you gotta get it.

Andrew Wilkinson

sam we should we gotta talk about that meetup we're doing in vancouver

Sam Parr

I will... we'll do a shout out next time at the beginning, but we'll also do it now. So, we're doing a meetup. Sean, obviously you're invited, but I doubt you'll ever... you.

Shaan Puri

guys know me so well that you didn't even invite me that's I appreciate that you know me that well

Sam Parr

Yeah, we're doing a meetup. We have to pick a date, but it's going to be mid-February in Vancouver. How many people signed up or expressed interest?

Andrew Wilkinson

I think it's we already have we already have 600 people so it's gonna be a big event

Sam Parr

We gotta figure that out. Yeah, we have to pick a venue. Andrew put a Typeform; he didn't even ask me. He said, "Sam and I are doing a meetup sometime in February, TBD on all the details. Sign up here." That's pretty cool.

Shaan Puri

I'll go I'll I'll do it

Andrew Wilkinson

I'll go people there's people on it

Shaan Puri

come

Andrew Wilkinson

You wanna come? Yeah, come! It'd be awesome. I think Sahil said he would come too. I just followed up with him on Twitter. I don't know if he's responded, but we gotta get Sahil out.

Sam Parr

I've got some doctor's appointments in February that I have to work around. So let me figure out when those are, and then we'll pick a date.

Shaan Puri

Alright, guys. Cool! Another successful Millie Awards is in the books. Thank you, and we will see you next year.