Behind The Scenes Of $1,000,000/Year Online Courses
Courses, Tony Robbins, Marketing, and Podcasts - March 31, 2022 (about 3 years ago) • 24:07
Transcript:
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Amy Porterfield | I have this student. Her name is Danira, and she lives in LA. She's a single mom with three kids and a really small house, not enough rooms for everybody. She is definitely doing it herself.
She was working two jobs and baking. People would come to her house to pick up a birthday cake or a celebration cake, and that was one way she was making money.
Long story short, she created a digital course and became really good at making caramel candy apples. The thing is, the caramel was store-bought; it wasn't like her special recipe. People just didn't know what store to go to or what to buy. So, she started creating these and selling a digital course.
Now, a lot of my students, many of them, have made seven figures and beyond. But I want to talk about her because she's a woman who had never made over $100,000 a year. In one digital course launch, she made $260,000 selling how to create caramel candy apples.
She literally was just doing live videos in a private Facebook group. I always tell that story because a lot of people listening have never created anything in their life online. They think, "My idea can't be good enough," or "It's not original enough," or whatever.
Then I think of Danira, a single mom living in LA, making $260,000 on the first time she launched anything. Now she's making way more money than that. But that's the kind of stuff that I live for because it has to start somewhere.
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Sam Parr | So, Amy, what's going on?
Amy Porterfield, you're part of the HubSpot Podcast Network. You're a new-ish addition, right? When did you join?
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Amy Porterfield | right yeah just about 2 months | |
Sam Parr | And so, what would you say you do? I mean, I've read your blog for years... years... years. But we had John Lee Dumas on the other day, and I was like, "I actually don't know how to describe him." He's like, "Do I just call him a podcaster? Is he a blogger?" I'm not actually sure how I would describe him because you kind of do a bunch of stuff. How would you describe it?
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Amy Porterfield | I sound like my mom and dad, who have no clue what I do 13 years in. So, I totally get it. I always say that I am an **internet marketing expert**, and I help entrepreneurs build businesses online. My expertise is to take your knowledge and know-how and turn that into a profitable digital course. So, digital courses are my area of expertise online.
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Shaan Puri | okay amazing and what kind of digital courses do you have your own course about courses | |
Amy Porterfield | I do, which is so meta, I know. So basically, here's the thing: 13 years ago, I worked in corporate. I worked for Tony Robbins and I was the Director of Content Development. I got to travel the world and work on content that Tony did on stage at events like "Unleash the Power Within" and "Date with Destiny," and all those cool events.
I was in a meeting, and it was so humbling. I was called into this meeting to take notes. I walked into this meeting in a big San Diego corporate office, and I walked in to find a bunch of internet marketers. Now, in my world, these are like the grandfathers of internet marketers. Although that sounds very rude to call them grandfathers, they're like the "mac daddies." So it's like Frank Kern, Brendon Burchard, Evan Pagan, Jeff Walker—big-name internet marketers that are still doing really big things. They were the leaders in the industry.
I had no idea who these guys were, and here I am at a side table taking notes while Tony's going around asking them about their businesses, what they do, and how they are making money online. All I heard was "freedom." These guys were running their own businesses, creating digital courses about tons of different topics, and I wanted a piece of that.
So that was like my first entry into this world I knew nothing about. About six months later or so, I had left my corporate job and started creating my own digital courses.
So yeah, I've got digital courses teaching people how to grow email lists and how to create digital courses. But ultimately, my mission is to help people leave their 9 to 5 jobs and start their own online businesses. I believe digital courses are a way to do that, so that's their vehicle.
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Sam Parr | sean do you have something to say because I I guess I was gonna say | |
Shaan Puri | I was gonna say forget courses let's talk about tony robbins | |
Sam Parr | I was going to say that exact same thing. I was going to ask you about a couple of the people you mentioned, including Tony. I was like, how much is his empire worth? Do you think this guy just...? | |
Amy Porterfield | Knock it out of the park or what? I mean, it's serious. What I always say about Tony is, have you guys ever been to one of his events before? Have you ever seen him on stage?
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Shaan Puri | so I've been to 2 maybe actually I've been to yeah I've been to 2 unleash the power within | |
Amy Porterfield | okay cool | |
Shaan Puri | I'm a Kool-Aid drinker; I love Tony Robbins. Absolutely! Yeah, so I'm a fan, but I'm also super curious because I don't know the guy or much about him.
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Amy Porterfield |
So I'm still a fan after all these years. How he is on stage - that huge personality, all the energy, super intense - is exactly how he is behind stage as well. I often joke that I might have lost a few years off my life because that was the most intense job I ever had. But I wouldn't change it for the world because I literally got to learn from the master.
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Shaan Puri | give me an intensity story tony robbins intensity tell me what you got | |
Amy Porterfield | so the thing is when before tony goes on stage wait what | |
Sam Parr | you gotta spill the beans you gotta | |
Shaan Puri | oh yeah | |
Sam Parr | tell | |
Shaan Puri | us the stories | |
Amy Porterfield | Here's why it's intense. Before he goes on stage, he literally preps for "Unleash the Power Within" like it's the first time he has ever stepped on stage. I've never seen anyone prep for anything and be more prepared in my entire life.
We have to write these stage signs for everything that he's going to talk about and the stories he's going to touch on. They're all handwritten. I don't know why we would handwrite these things every time, but they're handwritten. He goes over all of them, and then he gets on this rebounder. He's jumping on the rebounder backstage, getting all the energy in his body. The music is super loud. | |
Sam Parr | what's a rebounder is that | |
Shaan Puri | a trampoline | |
Amy Porterfield | Like a trampoline, yeah. It kind of gets the energy going in your body. He's reading your stage sign and making sure he's got everything going. Then he just throws the stage sign and runs on stage to do his thing.
But the intense part is when he gets off. He looks at whoever is in his proximity and says, "Alright, let's download." He downloads every single time he comes off stage. He discusses what worked, what didn't, what we can make better, what he liked, and what he didn't like. He wants feedback from everyone, and it's like you are on the entire time. I still get nervous talking about it.
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Shaan Puri | Yeah, you sound like it. So, he's been doing this for like 40 years. That's crazy to me because I went to the two things, and he does the same exact thing, right? He does pretty much the same script.
I would assume he knows it by the back of his hand or whatever by now. So, it's probably not the material that he's trying to remember; it's like he's just getting himself into that state.
What about, exactly? What about besides the performances? Because I think performing is definitely a high-intensity thing. What about just work, like the office? Or were you not around for that part?
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Amy Porterfield | meaning tony in the office | |
Shaan Puri | yeah just like on a normal day nonperformance | |
Amy Porterfield | So, on a normal day, non-performance, Tony's not in the office. When I was there, he was at his house. He did all the stuff from his own house, but he's always on.
I think one thing I took from what I learned from Tony and brought into my own business is that you should always be prepared—over-prepare. Care deeply about what you're creating. He cares deeply about his content, which is why he's always getting it in his body, even though he's done it a hundred times.
When he's not in the office, he's still always learning, always meeting with people, and learning new things. Like that meeting we had; he just wanted to know how they were selling their digital courses online because he was going to start doing that in a bigger way.
So, he's always pulling from different places. It was an incredible experience.
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Sam Parr | What about... So, Sean, I've told you about this guy before. His name's Eben Pagan. Sean and I, Amy, are good friends with Craig Clemens, and he was a copywriter.
When we had John Lee Dumas on the other day, I was like, "John, tell me about some of these marketers. They're so fascinating to me." He named a bunch of them, and I'm going to ask you about them. But Eben Pagan's the most interesting.
So basically, for the listeners, Eben Pagan, I knew him as David DeAngelo when I was 14 years old. I was a nerd, and I wanted to learn how to meet girls. He had an ebook called "Double Your Dating." What he would do, if I remember correctly—and Amy, you could correct me—he would send these really long emails. It felt like 10,000-word text-based emails about how to meet women.
Then at the end, you could buy like a $14 book. I think Craig told us that he was selling like $30 million a year of this book called "Double Your Dating." Have you heard about this?
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Amy Porterfield | Yo, absolutely! I've heard about it, and I know he's a legend in that area. When he came to the table, I think he had moved on from that part of his business, but that's how he was put on the map.
The one thing that I learned from Evan really early on is he teaches the strategy that you've got to coin your own content. You've got to name it, you've got to put a title to it, and you've got to own it.
So, one of the things that I've always done when I've created content in my own business is, like, I've got the "Porterfield Process" for outlining your digital course and the "Sweet Spot" for finding what topic to create for your course. I name everything and own it, and it sets you up as an expert. | |
Sam Parr | and that absolutely came from evan it's like so me and | |
Amy Porterfield | sam both teach courses on may that's like | |
Sam Parr | so me | |
Shaan Puri | And Sam both teach courses on Maven. Wes, who runs the course platform for Maven, has one that she calls "You need your spiky point of view." I was like, "What's your spiky point of view?" And she's like, "Yes, what's your point of view that stands out? That not everybody would agree with?"
It's like it'll poke some people the wrong way because it's different from everything that they've heard before. So, you know, that was the core of it. When she's like, "If you're gonna teach a course, you gotta have a spiky point of view. Otherwise, your course doesn't really have a sort of angle or a hook that other people are gonna connect with."
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Amy Porterfield | yeah I love that | |
Sam Parr | Do you know, the other day, Sean and I were talking about this guy named Sam Ovens. He had this YouTube video called "Consult," and he has a business called Consulting.com. He revealed all of his numbers, and he said, "We got to $30,000,000 in revenue, and then we decided to just be really profitable. We do $10,000,000 in sales with $5,000,000 in profit with a team of 4 people."
We were just fascinated because that's a great business to own. What are some other people who you've worked with or that you know of who are shockingly successful? Are there any that you would tell people about, and they would say, "I can't believe what this person does" or "I can't believe how much revenue they make" or "that they sell a course in this space"? Are there any shocking ones like that?
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Amy Porterfield | So, one of the stories that always shocks me is about a student of mine named Danira. She lives in LA and is a single mom with three kids. She has a really small house with not enough rooms for everyone. She's definitely doing it all by herself.
Danira was working two jobs and baking. People would come to her house to pick up birthday cakes or celebration cakes, which was one way she was making money. Long story short, she created a digital course and became really good at making caramel candy apples. The thing is, the caramel was store-bought; it wasn't like her special recipe. People just didn't know what store to go to or what to buy.
So, she started creating these caramel candy apples and selling a digital course on how to make them. Now, a lot of my students have made seven figures and beyond, but I want to focus on her because she had never made over $100,000 a year. In her first digital course launch, she made $260,000 selling how to create caramel candy apples. She literally was just doing live videos in a private Facebook group.
I always tell that story because many people listening have never created anything online in their lives. They might think, "My idea can't be good enough," or "It's not original enough," or whatever. Then I think of Danira, a single mom living in LA, who made $260,000 on the first time she launched anything. Now, she's making way more money than that. That's the kind of stuff that I live for because it has to start somewhere. | |
Sam Parr | what's her course name how do I Google her | |
Amy Porterfield | let's see if you Google danira caramel candy apples you will absolutely find her | |
Sam Parr | how do you spell danira | |
Amy Porterfield | Danira, we call her the "Caramel Candy Apple Queen." She's got tons of press written up about her. She's a big deal. | |
Shaan Puri | How did she get her customers? Who bought this course? How did she go about selling it? How much is the course?
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Amy Porterfield | I can't remember a couple $100 | |
Shaan Puri | okay | |
Amy Porterfield | And the way she got her customers—this is what's cool—she made a lot of videos and did a lot of social media where she'd show her tiny little kitchen, without a fancy camera or lighting, and what she was doing.
The thing is, if you own a bakery, a caramel candy apple is like $10 or more to sell, which is really good profit for a bakery. These bakers wanted to find more ways to make more money, so she appealed to the small business owners who had bakeries or sweets to sell.
But she also appealed to a lot of hobbyists. A lot of people were like, "I just want to do that. That's cool." So she had a mesh of two different audiences.
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Shaan Puri | but her she she basically just made free content and then | |
Amy Porterfield | tons of free content lots of videos yep | |
Shaan Puri | wow definitely | |
Amy Porterfield | And then, the way I teach people how to sell courses is with webinars. So, she started to do webinars, and webinars were a new vehicle to sell more. She's gone on to do even more launches.
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Sam Parr | you would do a webinar for a 3 or $200 thing | |
Amy Porterfield | Absolutely! So, back in the day, my very first successful course was called **FB Influence**. I did it with Lewis Howes, and together we created this course and launched it. It was $97, and I probably did 200 webinars to sell a $97 course. It was a huge success because we had tons of affiliates. But I would do a webinar even for a $97 course.
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Sam Parr | Course, amongst these internet marketers, what's the largest course or info product? What's the largest business you've ever heard of?
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Amy Porterfield | Oh jeez, the largest business I've ever heard of... I don't know, I feel like people...
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Sam Parr | yeah who crushes it the most that's a that's a that's a different way to ask | |
Amy Porterfield | Well, my girl Marie Forleo... Do you guys know Marie Forleo? She has a program called B-School. She's been crushing it for 10 years.
Here's what's unique about her course: she's had the same course. Obviously, she makes it a little bit better every year and improves the marketing, but it's literally the same course that she has sold for, I think, 13 years now. Once a year, she sells this course for $2,000. Now it's $2,500, but she's been in the game for 13 years with the same course. That, to me, is badass because...
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Sam Parr | she's probably made like $3,000,000 a year in profit for like 10 years would you you think that's crazy | |
Amy Porterfield |
Yes, I do. She's very quiet about her dollars, so I don't know exactly, but seeing the numbers... The affiliates, I've been an affiliate for a really long time. Absolutely, she's crushing it.
And the thing is, what I learned from Tony Robbins is: **you do not always want to reinvent the wheel**. Find something that works, double down on it, and stop starting from scratch all the time. That's literally what Marie has mastered.
So she's someone that I've always followed from the get-go.
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Sam Parr | is there anyone else | |
Amy Porterfield | I'm trying to think... Here's the thing: sometimes I don't think people are totally forthcoming with their numbers. I've been in the internet marketing space for a long time, and sometimes I trust what I hear, and sometimes I don't.
Sometimes people throw out numbers, and I'm like, "Yeah, but what's the profit margin on that?" So I always am a little bit unsure about what the numbers really are.
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Shaan Puri | The affiliate strategy... So, what? Because I think most people, if they're like, "Oh, I'm gonna create my first course," they wouldn't think that, "Oh, I should be using an affiliate strategy."
So, explain how that works and how big of a tool that is for you in your marketing mix.
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Sam Parr | do you use that even do you even use that sean do you use affiliates no | |
Shaan Puri | I don't use affiliates | |
Amy Porterfield | No, so I have made millions in my own business being an affiliate for other people. But I've also had affiliates sell my own courses. To me, I think it's one of the most powerful ways to build a business, or at least supplement your income if you have courses and memberships of your own.
So, for number one, I think a **50/50** split is what people should be offering. I've seen a trend recently that it's gone down to like **30%** or maybe **40%**... **40/60**. I'm old school, so I really do believe the **50/50** model is the way to go.
I think that if you find a course that either you've taken or you know your students will get massive value from, but you don't offer something like that, I think absolutely adding an affiliate offer to the mix can supplement your revenue. I have different streams of revenue, and one of my second biggest streams of revenue is being an affiliate for other people.
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Sam Parr | who's your biggest affiliate | |
Amy Porterfield |
So, the most money I've made as an affiliate is through Marie Forleo's B-School. That's why I'm really close to it. Then Jenna Kutcher, Gabby Bernstein, and Stu McLaren are huge affiliates for my program, Digital Course Academy. They all do really, really well.
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Sam Parr | I think we need to do that sean | |
Amy Porterfield | it makes a huge difference it's like a whole other stream of revenue | |
Sam Parr | how many people work at your company | |
Amy Porterfield | So, we've got 20 full-time employees and then some contractors on the side. Everyone's virtual. We do a **4-day work week**, working Monday through Thursday. It feels like a big team; I feel like it's a lot of people, but I know it's still such a small business.
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Shaan Puri | yeah I think that's a lot why do you need why do you need so many people | |
Amy Porterfield | So, we do... I have three digital courses, one membership, and then we do a lot of affiliate marketing.
Everybody just stays in their lane. I've got one person that's 100% focused on my podcast. That's all she does; she's the podcast producer. Kylie, you might talk to her, your team can talk to her.
We have a lot of people in specialized roles.
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Sam Parr | Are you running the company and being the front person, or do you have someone helping run the company while you're focused on content?
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Amy Porterfield | Great question! So, for seven years, I've had a sidekick helping me run the company. She's a Chief Marketing Officer (CMO) and recently transitioned out as a contractor. Now, I'm running it more than I normally do when she's handling marketing. I don't have my hands in all of that.
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Sam Parr | that's a lot of work goddamn | |
Amy Porterfield | right now it feels like a lot of work but it won't it doesn't always feel that way | |
Shaan Puri | and what's the name of your podcast so people who are listening can go check it out | |
Amy Porterfield | my podcast is online marketing made easy | |
Sam Parr | How big are you guys? We've been... we're getting into a pissing contest with John Lee Dumas. I'm a little... like I'm jealous a little bit with Jenna.
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Amy Porterfield | Jenna Kutcher's totally magic! She's got an amazing podcast. How many downloads total do you guys have?
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Sam Parr | I think in December, on the podcast platform, we had 1.3 million, or maybe 1,000,000, on the podcast platform. Then, like another 400,000 on YouTube.
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Amy Porterfield | just for the month | |
Sam Parr | yeah | |
Amy Porterfield | Okay, well that's huge. We had a million in January; that was our recent figure. So, wow, we've had over... | |
Sam Parr | just on just on podcast players or like | |
Amy Porterfield | yes | |
Sam Parr | yes that's huge that's huge | |
Amy Porterfield | So, we feel good about it. We've had **35 million downloads**. I used to not download twice a week, but changing to twice a week has changed things for us, for sure. I do a **15-minute** episode on Tuesday and a longer one on Thursday, and that changed the game for us.
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Sam Parr | so I'm glad we did that so your episode once | |
Amy Porterfield | what's that | |
Sam Parr | it was | |
Shaan Puri | once a week before that or | |
Amy Porterfield | once a week before december I think it was that we made the change | |
Sam Parr | So then, you have way more downloads per app. We get between 50,000 to 100,000, probably averaging around that. We have 3 episodes a week sometimes, so we're doing... holy.
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Amy Porterfield | holy cow that's awesome | |
Sam Parr | I think we even have four sometimes. But our episodes, like the downloads per episode, is the more important metric, I think.
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Shaan Puri | No, that's the real metric. It's not the one you brag about, but if you actually want to grow, that's the one you need to focus on.
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Sam Parr | care about and it sounds like yours | |
Amy Porterfield | Is really big. That's how you are also moving up in the charts. I mean, I know that you can't know everything about that algorithm, but one thing I've studied enough and I'm competitive enough to know is that I'm not moving up in the charts unless my week of downloads is strong.
So you guys are doing better than I am because you're always above me in the charts. I pay attention to those things. | |
Sam Parr | so do we | |
Amy Porterfield | anyone who says they don't I think they're lying | |
Sam Parr | Oh, we totally do! I take a lot of pride in the chartered whole numbers. But it sounds like you get more downloads per episode than us, for sure.
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Amy Porterfield |
Maybe in my back catalog... We do a lot of promoting to our own community about our podcast. We embed it in many things. For example, we did something really cool in January where we had a quiz. Basically, you take a quiz to figure out where you are in your entrepreneurial journey, and then we gave you 10 episodes that are going to help you along that journey. That blew us away!
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Shaan Puri | You're smart, okay? Gotcha. You're smart, and you do smart things, and then you get good results. I understand now; this is the secret.
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Sam Parr |
Yeah, we'll wrap up in a second. The best promotion we did recently was... we just announced that we're going to give $5,000 to some person who takes our clips and turns them into TikTok videos and gets popular on TikTok. We got, I think, 30,000,000 impressions on TikTok in like 12 days.
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Amy Porterfield | that is incredible that is super smart | |
Sam Parr | that was the only smart thing we've ever done | |
Amy Porterfield | whose idea was that one | |
Shaan Puri | Neither are farce, Ben. Yeah, in fact, I literally called it a "dumbass idea" on air. | |
Sam Parr | oh wait is it ben yeah | |
Amy Porterfield | that's ben ben just popped up | |
Sam Parr | is it ben this is my chance to come back into the episode yes it was my idea | |
Shaan Puri |
Shout out to **MFN Cuts** who is killing it! And there's many others... I follow them all now on TikTok. My TikTok feed is now just clips of myself and Sam, you know, over and over again. It's great!
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Amy Porterfield | that's awesome I'm gonna check that out wait how do I find it like I just looked at | |
Sam Parr | So here's what we did, but we screwed up... or I screwed up.
What was the hashtag? Ben, MFM Shorts, MFM Clips.
Alright, so if you go on TikTok and you search "MFM Clips" (with an "s"), you'll find it. But you'll also find... because I read the announcement, I accidentally said "clips" with an "s" one time, and then I said "clip" without an "s."
So if you search both of those words, you'll find different ones.
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Shaan Puri | And also, if you just Google "MFM clip," you're going to get porn because it stands for "male female male." So you'll get a whole different set of clips if you go to Google. So, that you know, it's...
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Amy Porterfield | a little variety | |
Shaan Puri | there's something for everybody over here we're very inclusive shit | |
Amy Porterfield | When I was just starting out, my name—I think it was my maiden name, now that I think about it—was a porn star.
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Sam Parr | what was your maiden name | |
Amy Porterfield | Starting out, Ballard... I think it was someone named Amy Ballard who was a porn star. When I was like 13 years ago or something, I was mortified. Every time I searched my name, there she was.
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Shaan Puri | does this sound familiar ben does that ring a bell | |
Amy Porterfield | yeah no comment ben say no comment | |
Sam Parr | I see. Yeah, that's crazy. It definitely sucks.
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Amy Porterfield | it's not an issue anymore | |
Shaan Puri | I'm a | |
Amy Porterfield | I've got a new last name name | |
Sam Parr | I used to file this guy on twitter named jeff epstein and so it could be worse | |
Shaan Puri |
No, I tweeted at that guy. I was like, "Ah, brutal name," and then he got so mad at me. I was like, "You can't be... I can't be the first person to point this out to you. Like, don't be mad at me, I didn't do it to you."
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Amy Porterfield | oh my gosh | |
Sam Parr | well thanks for coming on amy this is this is awesome | |
Amy Porterfield | Yeah, thanks guys so much! It's nice to talk to you, and I know you guys are coming on to my podcast, so I'm looking forward to chatting with you too.
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Shaan Puri | sounds good take care | |
Amy Porterfield | alright bye guys |