Meeting Tim Ferriss, Real Estate & SaaS ideas (#395)

Shaan Puri

So, he's written, I think, 5 or 6 bestselling business books—nonfiction business books, business life hack type books. If he was going to do just another one of those, it would have been like, "Okay, cool. Just going back to the, you know, what butter is your bread," right? That makes sense. But instead, he's like, "I'm gonna build a world like Game of Thrones." He's like, "I'm gonna build a whole thing like this. It's an entire fantasy world. All the characters are roosters. There are 8 houses that compete in the Great Games, and they do this, you know, then there's a war, and there are different classes." If you create a sort of giant fantasy, you know, Tolkien or George R.R. Martin style thing, along with it, there's basically an NFT that you can buy. It's literally just like you're buying a piece of art, and you're buying a ticket into the entertainment of watching him build this world out. What's up? In this episode, we're talking about hanging out with Tim Ferriss, a guy that we've looked up to for a long time, and some of the insights that he shared with us. We talk about meeting a real estate billionaire and his model—how he built from scratch in 7 years to about $1,000,000,000 in real estate assets. We talked about the opportunity to build SaaS tools for OnlyFans. You're gonna want to hear that. And then, last but not least, Sam's got a friend who's created his own, I don't know, religion? Sort of like the Amish people who love money.

Sam Parr

Kinda, it is almost like Amish people who love money. I'm going to this thing, and I'm going to give a big update on it next week. But in this episode, when we start off, I'll tell you a little bit about it. I think you're going to dig it. But yes, that's the episode. Listen up! Alright, we live.

Shaan Puri

can I tell you about a interesting call I had with with your old pal tim ferris

Sam Parr

I'm so eager to hear this. I only asked you a few questions because I was waiting to hear about this.

Shaan Puri

So, I interviewed Tim Ferriss because he's got a new NFT project that came out today, or is coming out today. All of a sudden, you should... yeah, it's called "Cock Punch." Right? So I was like, "Okay, what's that about?" I was like, "Yo, you should come on The Milk Road and tell your story," and blah, blah, blah. I've met Tim Ferriss one time in my life. You've met him a lot more than that, I think, because he was an investor in The Hustle and kind of lived around the same area as you or whatever. But I met him one time, and I guess I'll just... I want to tell you three things. First, it's pretty interesting to meet people who you've really gotten to know through their content. What was it? The OnlyFans girl who came on here called it the "parasocial relationship," where it's like, I feel like I know a lot about you, and to you, I'm a complete stranger. But, you know, I feel like we're close friends because I know so much about you, and you don't even know who the hell I am. That's how I feel with him.

Sam Parr

that's how people feel with you and I I bet

Shaan Puri

Yeah, it happens with you and I. You know, I was like, well... it's just like a weird dynamic. It's not weird; it's not bad or good. It's a strange dynamic—it's a natural thing that happens with content like this. So, I read *The 4-Hour Workweek* when I was in college. Before COVID-19, there was the "4-Hour Fever." The 4-Hour Fever was what happened to you right when you read that book. For the next four hours, you question every part of your life. You start fever dreaming about quitting everything, hiring a VA to do your job, going and living in Argentina, and basically creating some online passive income business that's going to give you $7,000 a month because that's your freedom number. And I know this because everyone that I gave the book to, I’m like, "Look, you might want to clear your schedule because you're going to have the 4-Hour Fever as soon as you're done with this. Just don't make plans because whatever they are, they're going to get busted by this." And sure enough, that's exactly what happened. *The 4-Hour Workweek* was one of those books that I found to be really, really impactful.

Sam Parr

life changing

Shaan Puri

Informative, life-changing—especially at the time that I read it. I was 20 or 21 years old, trying to figure out what I wanted to do with my life. It was new; it was somebody saying, "Yo, here's how I live," and it was totally different from anybody else. Okay, so that's how I knew him. You knew him in a different way. Can you describe how you knew him? Then I want to tell you some of the takeaways I had from this interview.

Sam Parr

So, I initially met him when I was coming home at 6 AM from the hospital after I got a kidney stone. My wife was driving me, and I was sitting in the passenger seat. I was super messed up on morphine and all types of drugs. I pull up to my house and I go, "Sarah, what the hell is Tim Ferriss doing in front of our house?" I see him and I say, "Tim, what's up, bro? What are you doing here?" He replies, "Oh, I looked on the clock. I was like, 'Oh sick, hey, you got any cures for kidney stones?'" I just sounded like a total asshole. Then, two days later, I see him again. I say, "Tim, what's going on, man? I just want to apologize. I was coming from the hospital, I was all hopped up on drugs, but I'm a huge fan. It's cool that you live around here." Through that, we just started walking our dogs in the park every once in a while together. I would see him in the park. Then, a few weeks later, I get an email from Tim saying, "Hey, I want to learn about emailing. I like the hustle. Teach me about it. Can you meet me at this restaurant in my neighborhood?" I go and meet him at that restaurant. He goes, "Oh, what the hell, you're the dog guy!" I say, "What's up, man?" He goes, "Why don't you..." So, I basically he cold emailed me, and I never told him who I was. It was a total coincidence, and that's how I got to know him. I want to say two things: 1.

Shaan Puri

I'm going to share my philosophy about meeting people that you admire or think highly of in some way. The main trick that I have is that I admire parts of people, not the whole person. This is a key thing that I think a lot of people get wrong. They look at it as a binary yes or no thing. "Oh, do you love this person or do you hate them? Are they the best or are they the worst? Are they your hero or are they not your hero?" I never think like that. When you meet people, you see this full 360-degree picture of them. For example, I met Tim Ferriss, and he was actually quite quiet in person the first time I met him.

Sam Parr

he's super quiet and shy

Shaan Puri

And he's a little bit introverted or shy. When he did say things, I was like, "Oh wow, that's like a little bit of the Tim Ferriss that I’ve heard or followed coming out." But also, I was like, you know, even though I love 10 things about this guy, there are a couple of things about him that I wouldn't want to emulate. There are six things I'd want to copy, let's say, about the way that Tim Ferriss lives his life. But I was like, "Oh, you know, something that's really important to me is, let's say, kids or having a family." I don't know if that's important to him or not; I don't know him that well, but he doesn't have that. So, I don't want to be him. I don't want to be the whole. But there are parts of him that I think are awesome that I would love to steal for my game. I think about this with everybody.

Sam Parr

I imagine you like standing over him while he's just sitting down. You're poking him with a stick and saying, "Come on, tell me life hacks! Like, come on!"

Shaan Puri

yeah basically what you did with your kidney stone thing is like you ever seen do you have one of these on your feet what do you do

Sam Parr

yeah what's this rash meat

Shaan Puri

I don't know, man. Maybe you should ask a doctor. And the same thing with Tony Robbins. I love Tony Robbins, but do I love the whole Tony Robbins? No, I love parts of Tony Robbins. Some people are like, "Dude, what about that thing he did or that thing he said? Oh my god!" I don't know about that. If he did that, that would be bad. But I love his public speaking; I think he's amazing at that. That's what I try to steal from him. I also love his mindset around XYZ, and that's what I've adopted from him. That's been really helpful. The other stuff? That's either not applicable or not admirable. Oh, it's fine. I just don't take that. I'm just walking through the farmers market, picking up little bits and pieces from people and being like, "Oh, you know, like Conor McGregor now looks like he's basically a roid head, you know, a coke addict. He's got allegations of sexual assault. The guy's nuts." But Conor McGregor from the years 2015 to 2018? Yeah, you know what they call the young, hungry Conor? That's the Conor I liked. Those are the things I drew a lot from. I don't let the other stuff really tarnish that because I'm just only looking for the good. The bad? I just say somebody else can pick that bad apple up. I'm not taking that.

Sam Parr

out alright what about the damn

Shaan Puri

So that's just my general philosophy. Okay, let me tell you some of the nuggets that I took away from this interview. It was supposed to be, I mean frankly speaking, it was supposed to be like Tim Ferriss comes on the Mookrow. That's cool; that's just sort of like a bucket list item for me. But, you know, for him, obviously it was a good way to get the word out about his NFT project. So I thought, "Nah." I went in with pretty low expectations. Generally, when somebody goes on to announce the launch of something, they're kind of just shilling that thing. He didn't do that, so that was kind of cool. He said a bunch of things that I would say were life advice or money advice that I thought were interesting. Do you want the money or the life one first?

Sam Parr

money

Shaan Puri

Alright, money. So, I was like, "Tim, what are you doing? You know crypto prices are crashing. What are you doing? Are you making any adjustments? Do you look at the prices?"

Sam Parr

he's a crypto guy by the way

Shaan Puri

Yeah, he said he bought crypto, specifically Bitcoin, for the first time in late 2012 and has been accumulating it since. He mentioned that it's a significant thing for him—not everything, but significant. He said that last year, in Q3 2021, he sold enough to cover his cost basis and banked a little bit of a win. The rest, he's just holding to see how it all plays out. He also shared a couple of interesting insights. He said, "I've made most of my money mistakes selling early—selling too early." He gave a bunch of examples, saying, "I was the first advisor at Shopify super early on, and I owned pre-IPO shares of Twitter and Facebook." As soon as they went public, they all hit turbulent times in that first year, and their stocks went way down. He explained, "As soon as the lockup was over, I just sold because the stock was going down. I was kind of a novice in public markets, frankly, and I'm still a bit of a novice in public markets. I didn't know what to do, so I just sold."

Sam Parr

all of it

Shaan Puri

He's like, "Yeah, all of it." He didn't specify that, but he made it sound like all of it. Wow. And he's like, "Those are massive financial mistakes. You know, like selling Facebook, Shopify, and Twitter right when they went public." You know, six months after is when the lockup ends. He's like, "These are hideous financial mistakes that I made." He said it wasn't because he... he's like, "So I learned when to sell." He goes, "I now go into any investment knowing what conditions I would sell under." He's like, "Most people have no exit plan. They don't know when they would sell, how long they plan to hold, or what would cause them to sell." He's like, "I now have a plan. When I go in, I know what would trigger me to sell. So if I'm going to deviate from that plan, I better have a really strong reason." He added, "I don't sell now just because the price went down. I sell if something I believed before now has new information that tells me that's not true anymore or I'm surprised about it." He's like, "For crypto, for example, I haven't sold, but I haven't sold not because I'm more confident than ever. Frankly, I just haven't done the homework to figure out if any of my initial assumptions were wrong. I haven't done that homework yet." And he's like, "That's what I'll do. I'll go talk to my smart friends, the ones who helped me get into this, and I'll say, 'Is there anything that you used to believe that you no longer believe about crypto? Or any red flags that have come up for you that didn't align with your initial hypothesis? I want to hear those before I make a decision on what I want to do.'" I thought that was extremely reasonable. I thought that the sort of selling early mistake is something that, you know, I've shared on the pod too. Like, I sold Tesla early when there was a bunch of bad news, and I didn't know what to do. So then I just sold, and I basically lost out on $5,000,000 that I held.

Sam Parr

And by the way, for the Shopify example, it looks like 6 months after [the initial investment], it was around $2.50 a share. At its peak... at its absolute peak, it was $150. So that's something like, you know, $1,000,000 of shares that he had - which he definitely could have had - would have been like $50,000,000, which is very substantial.

Shaan Puri

And so, he was pointing out my mistakes in investing. I haven't been buying the wrong things; the biggest mistakes have been selling the right things too early. I think that might be... you know, he's like, "I don't know if this applies to everybody, but for me, that has been some of my largest missteps." Okay, so then the second thing he was talking about was this project that he's doing—this NFT project. I was like, "So this is kind of crazy. I don't know if you know what he's doing. Do you?"

Sam Parr

I know what he is. I know that he's always been interested in nonfiction writing—oh, sorry, fiction writing. He's always wanted to write stories, and for some reason, he hasn't until now, right? I think this is like his first fictional story or book or series of podcasts, and it comes with an NFT, right?

Shaan Puri

Yeah, exactly. So, he's written, I think, five or six bestselling business books—nonfiction business books, business life hack type books. If he was going to do just another one of those, it would have been like, "Okay, cool. Just going back to the, you know, what butter is your bread," right? That makes sense. But instead, he's like, "I'm gonna build a world like *Game of Thrones*." He's like, "I'm gonna build a whole thing like this. It's an entire fantasy world. All the characters are roosters. There are eight houses that compete in the Great Games, and they do this, like, you know, then there's a war, and there are different classes, and all the things." If you create a sort of giant fantasy, like, you know, Tolkien or George R.R. Martin style thing, along with it, there's basically an NFT that you can buy. That basically is not like... it's literally just like you're buying a piece of art, and you're buying a ticket into the entertainment of watching him build this world out.

Sam Parr

it's a book like one book

Shaan Puri

It's not a book. It's like... I think it's just long. He's like, "I've written 10,000 words," but I don't think he's going to release it like a book. I think he's going to release it in some other way, like essays, chapters, or podcasts. He's playing with different formats. I don't think he knows exactly how he wants it to come out yet. So anyway, pretty interesting. I was like, "Dude, so why are you doing this?" He's like, "Well," he said a couple of nuggets. He goes, "You know, I'm having the most fun when I'm creating something, and that's what gets me into flow state." So he's like, "I knew I wanted to create something, and if I just did another nonfiction book, I don't feel like I would have that magical feeling of being challenged and satisfied at the same time."

Sam Parr

yeah

Shaan Puri

And so he goes, "I talked to the guy from... who did Steven Pressfield, who I think wrote *The War of Art*."

Sam Parr

yeah

Shaan Puri

And he goes, you know, he has this concept of a muse, which is like the project you're working on or the thing that you're playing with. He says, "You're doing your muse a disservice if you don't go big." So, I decided, if I'm going to do this, I'm going to go big. And he explains that "big" is not about writing an 8,000-word book or an 8,000-page book. It doesn't mean literal volume. "Big" means I have to go to a place where I'm uncomfortable with this. My friends are calling me, asking, "Tim, are you okay? Is this what you want to do?" And he's like, "That's how I know that I've pushed it into a realm where something interesting is going to happen."

Sam Parr

and that's how I deal with this

Shaan Puri

yeah what's up with this podcast what do you mean

Sam Parr

no with him coming up with a nonfiction thing called or a fiction thing yeah

Shaan Puri

you wanna call him and be like

Sam Parr

I'm like, "Yeah, you have nothing to lose here because you're set, you're fine." If this is creative, that's cool, but it's kind of weird. What are you doing, man? Like, are you okay?

Shaan Puri

Yeah, exactly. He goes, "That's when I'm gonna basically do the things that are off the beaten path. Something that I haven't done before, something that is new, interesting, and novel." So that's how he was talking about this thing. I was like, "Okay, I love that advice." The second thing he said that was along those lines was, "Well, what if we're just sitting here, you know, a year from now, just having a beer, and we're like, 'Dude, what happened with Cockpunch? Man, that story was crazy! Where did it all go wrong?' If it all goes wrong, what do you think your answer will be if we're looking back at it a year from now and it's just like, 'Yeah, that went totally wrong'? What is the core risk?" He goes, "I've thought about this a lot. It's a good question. If I end up managing the project instead of creating it, I think it will have all gone wrong." He continues, "Anything great comes from, you know, staying at it. I have to do the things that give me energy because without the energy, there is no endurance." That really resonated with me. He was like, "You know, with no energy, there is no endurance. I gotta spend my time on the things that give me energy. For me, that's drawing and creative writing. I have to do those parts. Those are my superpowers. That's what I'm good at."

Sam Parr

him better than others like like like he

Shaan Puri

Did the animation, was like illustrations and comics. That's how he made college and stuff like that. Yeah, he's like a sketch artist, and I think that's what he originally wanted to do, was be a cartoonist in some way. What a...

Sam Parr

fascinating person and so

Shaan Puri

And so he was like, "You know, those are my superpowers. I gotta spend the time on that. If I just end up spending time managing this thing and it feels like a lot of administrative work, I know that for me, that gives me no energy. Therefore, no endurance. Therefore, I won't stay with it. Therefore, the great things won't happen." I thought the self-awareness was really key. This is something that I know as I think about my next projects. These are the types of strong pillars or tenets that I need to have: this is what I am doing, and this is what I'm not doing. If I do this, I think it'll work, and if I don't do this, I know that I will have trouble. I think that self-awareness is pretty baller.

Sam Parr

Dude, that's awesome! He's always been a pretty wise person. Even, like, you know, I think he wrote "The 4-Hour Workweek" when he was maybe a little bit younger than you. He might have been only 30 when he wrote it. He's always had interesting insight, and that's a really good insight about the energy and endurance thing.

Shaan Puri

He had another one that goes, "I go..." So, it was on the topic of failure. He goes, "I should first say that I kinda rigged the deck in my favor." I was like, "What do you mean?" He goes, "You know, I go into a project thinking, 'How do I win even if this fails? How do I succeed even if this fails?'" So, he goes, "I think about it in terms of... sure, there's the question of, do a lot of people read this thing? Does it become popular? Does it become financially successful? Sure, those are things. But I want to win even if those hard things don't happen." He continues, "I will only pick projects if I know that the act of doing it, the creative process of doing it, is gonna be awesome. If the people I'm gonna meet along the way doing this are gonna be awesome. And if the skills that I'm gonna develop doing this are gonna make me more awesome." So, he goes, "If I do those three things, if I know that the skills, the knowledge, and the network that I acquire along the way are gonna make it worth it for me, then I don't have to stress about the popularity or the financial income. Because I'm gonna win in either case. I'm gonna win if just those things happen, or I'm gonna win even bigger if the other happens." He concludes, "So, I pick projects where I can stack the deck in my favor, and that's what I've done here."

Sam Parr

and is this still the life or the money advice or the life one

Shaan Puri

now we're in the life advice yeah

Sam Parr

Dude, he's good, man. He's a really interesting guy. What's he doing now? Is he treating that as like, that's been his 40-hour work week? Like, that's been his job for... yeah.

Shaan Puri

He's been going ham on this for like, you know, close to a year now. And he's like, "Dude, I've just put so many hours into this." It's funny because people are criticizing him, saying, "Oh dude, you're doing an NFT. There's like another celebrity doing an NFT. It's just a cash grab." I told him this on the call, and I was like, "Dude, that's crazy to me." First of all, he's donating 100% of the proceeds to his charity that does research on psychedelics and stuff like that to treat PTSD. So all the primary sales are going there, right? That's a huge chunk of the financial reason you would do it. The second thing is, if you just count the number of hours it takes to do this world-building type of thing, he's gotta be working for minimum wage just in terms of the number of hours it takes to create something like this. Third, if he was going to do a cash grab NFT, he would have done it last year. He wouldn't be launching it now, and he wouldn't be giving away the money to charity. He would be doing it in a way that doesn't require him to build out this whole fictional world. He would just be like, "Hey, here's a picture," or "Hey, meet this. You know, this gives you 5 minutes to talk to Tim Ferriss." That's what he would do as just a cash grab if he wanted to do it. So I thought that was, you know, all...

Sam Parr

The funny criticism Tim has is that he has a really interesting celebrity connection. Ryan Holiday has this too, and I know a few guys who have had similar experiences. There are people I look up to, and then there are people whom the people I look up to look up to. So, like Ryan and Tim, they both get all these football coaches, politicians, and rich billionaire types—these interesting, traditionally powerful people—reaching out to them. They say, "Hey, sensei, show me the way. What can I do about this? What should I do next?" I've always found that type of celebrity to be incredibly fascinating. Tim will, not in a bad way, name-drop all these stories on the podcast. He'll say things like, "Yeah, you know, I was with Ed Norton recently, and he was telling me this, this, and this, and I was trying to help him figure out what to do." Or, "When I was with Jamie Foxx, he was asking me about this." I've always found that celebrity to be so fascinating, and I've always wondered what his life is like.

Shaan Puri

I also I asked him another question I I go you know you're one of the most like prolific interviewers you've done I don't know 600 episodes of of interviews on your podcast it's one of the top I don't know 5 or 10 podcasts in the world and I say I go you know if you had a chance to sit down with sam bankman fried and interview him you had a couple hours with him how would you approach it and I thought his answer was pretty interesting so he goes he goes it's a tricky one because I don't know going in how much of what he's gonna tell me is the truth or a lie and so he goes but I'll tell you how I would approach it given that that's the problem he goes first I would my goal initially is just to get him off of his party lines get him off of his pr script and so he's like I would go and I would try to talk to as many of his old friends and coworkers as I can and ask them you know if I if you you know you must be surprised at what's happened here if you could ask sam one question just genuinely heart to heart what would you wanna know the answer to that I can maybe ask on your behalf and then he's like I'd get those he's like then in the interview I would use their name to kind of soften soften them up a little bit so I talked to james who you know is your college roommate and knew you before any of this stuff right when you were just a guy blah blah blah and you know he said he would wanna know this like what would you say to james because it's like saying to james versus saying to tim I think it's like interesting so I thought that was an interesting tactic he goes that gives me good research but also maybe can get him to just like deviate from the same repetitive loop of answers he's gonna give to everybody else he goes the second thing is that he goes I'd be pretty direct I go what% of what you say to you know before we do this what% should I assume is true of the things that you're gonna tell me is it a 100 or is it less than a 100 and like you know if it's less than a 100 I understand that but why and here's another version of that would be you're doing a lot of media what do you what do your lawyers think of what you're doing he's like because it might make him laugh and get him to talk kinda talk about his motivations for why he's even doing an interview like this because it seems kinda counterintuitive to be doing all this stuff no lawyer would tell you to tell go go and do this stuff he goes the last thing he goes he goes you know I would he goes I would he goes I just wanna know the guy's fundamental beliefs because it seems like he's not stupid he's got good hardware upstairs and that's why I wanna know what his beliefs are you know am I just supposed to assume that he's just a bad person he was a criminally minded person and for a long time he planned to do this criminal behavior or was he did he have the right intentions and then somewhere along the way made a bad ethical decision under some stress or pressure and that led him down a path of making the wrong decisions you know like and he's like that's what I'd be trying to figure out and you know I would try to to understand you know his you know his thinking around that and tell him that's what I wanna know I wanna understand that I thought that was pretty cool

Sam Parr

So, I'll wrap up with one last story about Tim. In this, what you're saying is kind of like... he'll say these things sometimes in interviews as if he's coming off the cuff or that he's just thinking out loud. I have never met someone like him who prepares for everything. He prepares for every single thing. This is quite different than you and I. You and I are totally cool improvising. You would think someone like him, who's interviewed all these people or has talked publicly for so many hours, could improvise. Maybe he can, but from my experience, he is not someone who improvises. Everything he says, the words are chosen very, very specifically. For example, he'll say this line: "Oh, I don't play a doctor on TV, and I don't pretend to do that." He must have heard that somewhere and thought, "Okay, that's actually a good line to get. That's a good brand."

Shaan Puri

message to

Sam Parr

Yeah, I'm gonna keep saying that. So, another thing that he'll do is, like, one time I interviewed him for *The Hustle*. I interviewed him on the phone, and then I transcribed it. There were a couple of instances where I made an error, so he was right to call me out. He didn't yell at me, but he was just like, "No, that's not what I said." We were talking about how I would write the word "hadn't" instead of "had not." He said "had not," and I wrote "hadn't," so I was, in fact, wrong. He very specifically called that out. He also pointed out, "No, there shouldn't be a comma here; there should be a question mark," and then a new sentence. These were incredibly, incredibly...

Shaan Puri

if if he did that then he's gonna be pretty pissed at this interview because I definitely

Sam Parr

like dude

Shaan Puri

you know move stuff around

Sam Parr

to help him

Shaan Puri

no that's not what I thought about

Sam Parr

Not like that. I don't blame him; he is so specific about his brand. In fact, if you go and see, like, for example, there's this conference called 212 that I went to, and Tim went as well. He gave a testimonial for it, and if you read the testimonial, it's very specific. In his head, he's like, "I can't endorse anything," but what he can say is, "You know, Adam hosted a great conference. They're wonderful. He's a wonderful person." Some people will ask us, you and I, like I've asked you to do a testimony for something, and you're like, "Just write whatever." Not him. Everything about his brand, like what you see out in public and what he writes, is very specific and incredibly well thought out. We almost had him speak at a conference or something like that, and we just started chatting about it. He wanted to know exactly who all was there, and I'm like, "What do you mean, dude? Why does it matter to you? Just fucking wing it. Just talk." That's not his style at all. It was all incredibly precise, well thought out, and everything had a purpose. I've always found that to be very admirable about him. I remember being pissed off when he didn't yell at me, but he kind of had a tone where he said, "No, that's not what I said. This is what I said." I remember being upset about that, and then I was like, "No, man, he's right. He has a brain, and he's sticking to it." I always thought that was really interesting.

Shaan Puri

Yeah, well, alright Tim. I'm sorry. I did definitely chop up the interview to try to make it shorter and better. When...

Sam Parr

to go live when to go live

Shaan Puri

it's it's already live too late tell me if

Sam Parr

He replies to you. That's going to be the follow-up. I bet you he will. He honestly is very specific about it, and I appreciate that.

Shaan Puri

You're right. I had told him, I was like, "He's like, yeah, I'll do it. You know, just send me the questions in advance so I want to make sure I can prepare and do the best job I can." I was like, "Well, I don't know the questions I'm going to ask you, so okay, I guess I'll do the work now." And so I did it. Then he's like, "Okay, cool. For this question, I think we should do this and this and this." But I was like, "Wow, this is like way more in-depth than anybody." Even during the thing, he's like, "I did an audio video test earlier, blah blah blah, it should be good," because he's like, "You know, whatever, in some foreign country right now." And then on some of the answers, he's like, "Okay, stop. Can I redo that? I think I was just not being clear there." Then he would do it again, and I was like, "Wow, we're so different." But I get why being the way that you are leads you to have the type of brand and success that you have. I am so different than that. I am like, you know, complete... I'm basically like the equivalent of a food fight, and he's like a Michelin star restaurant.

Sam Parr

exactly dude it's so fascinating

Shaan Puri

Throwing mashed potatoes around and getting it everywhere. And he's like, you know, got that perfect plate, dude.

Sam Parr

I remember we were walking with our dogs, and I said, "Oh, that's a cool dog leash," or "cool dog collar" or something. I was expecting him to say, "Oh yeah, got it on Amazon. It's pretty great." Instead, he responded, "Oh, this thing? You see, this comes from like this rare African horsehair," and he had this in-depth story about it. That was my experience, and then I noticed that every time we had these conversations, everything about his life felt very purposeful, high intent, intentional. Yeah, I thought that was fascinating.

Shaan Puri

Yeah, that's cool. It really highlights... it's like you see a 12 out of 10 at being very intentional, and then you're like, "Oh wow, I thought I might have been an 8 or a 9. Actually, I'm a 4."

Sam Parr

totally he's very specific skip

Hubspot

"Our software is the worst." Have you heard of HubSpot? See, most CRMs are a cobbled-together mess, but HubSpot is easy to adopt and actually looks gorgeous. "I think I love our new CRM. Our software is the best!" HubSpot: Grow better.

Sam Parr

alright you wanna do another one of yours

Shaan Puri

Yeah, let's do some other topics. Okay, so where do you want to shift to? Maybe some ideas?

Sam Parr

What's the deal with Spotify? Is it interesting, or are the real estate insights more appealing? That's what I'm interested in. You said maybe, but alright.

Shaan Puri

Let me give you the real estate thing real quick. So, I talked to somebody. I can't say their name, but...

Sam Parr

I like where this is going

Shaan Puri

My friend has built, I would say, in the last 7 years—yes, 7 years—a real estate portfolio owning about $1,000,000,000 in real estate assets, with 40% debt. So, 60% is equity, which amounts to about $600,000,000 in equity across these properties. Do I know this person? He started 7 years ago from zero, with zero ability to network or borrow. The only skills he had were what he thought he knew, and he was able to build this up. I was talking to him, and I was like, "Dude..." He does retail in a specific area; he focuses on retail real estate. Basically, in their world, they would call it commercial real estate. What I mean is retail stores. He'll buy a shopping center that might have a Hobby Lobby, a Starbucks, and whatever else. There are about 6 spots, and he basically owns that center. Then, he'll get it leased to buy it, build on it, lease it up, and then he'll either hold it or sell it after that. He's compounded his money, I think, about... I was doing the calculations afterward. He's compounded his money about 60% a year for like 7 years or something like that—even maybe a little bit more. I think 60% was the minimum I calculated as possible for where he was at. I think it's a little bit north of that. I was like, "Dude, first of all, this is crazy. Congratulations! Second of all, my worldview is that shopping centers— is this still a thing? Aren't you worried? Is this not dying?" In my world, in the tech world, we're just like everything's going online, everything's e-commerce. You know, you're swimming against the current. I go, "Am I just wrong about that, or what's going on?" How do I...

Sam Parr

How do I... I mean, the Hobby Lobby folks are always going to need a lobby to hobby, bro. Like, they're going in real life.

Shaan Puri

So, that's what he said. He goes, "You're right," but there are some specific trends, some specific categories that are going completely anti-trend and expanding, like home.

Sam Parr

depot probably

Shaan Puri

Because I go, I go, "How does it work?" He goes, "What's your edge? Like, what are you doing differently than anybody else? Because you're getting a dramatically better result than anybody else I know in real estate." He goes, "Well, I'll get a call from, you know, the owner of, you know, whatever, Dollar General or something like that, and they'll say..."

Sam Parr

hey we can expand literally we're not the owner like like an executive like someone an executive there you mean

Shaan Puri

Could be the CEO, could be the head of real estate, whoever. Somebody at the top of these companies will say, "Look, we're trying to get into Lexington, Kentucky. We want to be in that geo, or we want more stores in that geo. Can you make this happen?" And I'm like... and he's like, "So they're not gonna make it happen." I go, "No, no, no, slow down, slow down." I go, "So why do they call you?" He's like, "Well, they've done business with me." I'm like, "Okay, great, but why aren't they just calling a broker or somebody in Lexington?" And he's like... he started laughing. He's like, "You know, or even more specifically..." I'm like, "So then you have to find the right location?" He goes, "No, sometimes they'll just tell me we want to be in this location." I was like, "Then why don't they just contact the guy from there and do the deal?" And he's like, "They have real estate teams." He's like, "Oh, yeah, they do." But he goes, "Three things." He goes, "Number one, most of the owners of these places are like a pain in the ass for them to deal with. They know I'm easy to do business with. Why? Most owners don't want to invest in their properties. They won't do any tenant improvements. I will invest money to build out the stores the way they want. Because I've been willing to do that, they would prefer to work with me over any other developer or the average developer because I have shown that I can build fast and I will invest my own dollars into building it." Okay, second thing... and I go, "But doesn't that guy just think, like, man, if I just did this?" He goes, "Yeah, but it's speculation. I know because I have these relationships. I know they'll come through. That owner would have to, like, on spec, invest in maybe improving some part of their property in order to make it more inhabitable. I'll just do it."

Sam Parr

And by the way, he gets the Hobby Lobby-like interest. Then he can go get a loan and tell the bank, "Hey, I got interest in this. Therefore, you..."

Shaan Puri

Not even that. He'll get the interest, then he'll go tie up the property. He'll commit to buy it. He doesn't have to have the money right away; he has 90 days or whatever he's got to...

Sam Parr

close the

Shaan Puri

In that time, he then goes to get Hobby Lobby to sign the lease. Then he goes to the financers and says, "Here's a property with a signed 10-year lease from a highly reputable client. Can I now get financing?"

Sam Parr

this sounds like the best business ever

Shaan Puri

yeah exactly

Sam Parr

And they're like, "Oh, Hobby Lobby's not going down to business anytime soon. You have a 10-year tenant. Yeah, this is easy. This is all easy."

Shaan Puri

So then he was like, "I was like, okay, I kinda buy that." The mom-and-pop owners of these shopping centers, you know, they own like one or two, maybe three shopping centers. They're not greedy; they're more scared than anything. They're not investing in it. Okay, I buy that some people might fall into that. What else? What are your other edges? He goes, "I don't die by paralysis by analysis." He explains that these guys will get tied up on something on page seven of the lease. They'll just get really worried about some covenant. He goes, "I have basically a standardized deal with these guys. My leases are clean and simple, and I'm willing to bear some risk." These are not the most ironclad, bulletproof deals where every inch of my body is covered and can't be exposed. He's like, "You know, I just don't die by paralysis by analysis." These guys will just die in the deal-making process of the lease because they get worried about stuff that really doesn't matter. I've been doing this long enough that I understand: look, if things go wrong, I have a plan B, a plan C, a plan D. I don't have to make plan A this completely fully insured thing.

Sam Parr

mhmm okay

Shaan Puri

That's interesting. Tell me more. He goes, "The other thing is that they will have..." You gave me some other deal-making points, but I'll leave those out because some of those are, you know, maybe a little personal or secretive, I guess. I go, "Okay, what about these tenants? Who are these people trying to expand? I thought the whole retail landscape is shrinking and collapsing, and Amazon's killing everybody." He goes, "Yes, but there are certain categories." He goes, "Anything DIY." So, Hobby Lobby is an example of this. DIY people like to go in; they like to see the stuff, they like to have the stuff, and they need a bunch of inventory in a big space. So, they're willing to rent these big stores. He goes, "Another one is anything that caters to the Black and Latino community." For some reason, those groups are not buying online as much as, you know, white people or Indians or other races.

Sam Parr

what stores

Shaan Puri

Are those not buying online? Their stores are still thriving. I asked them, you know, "Why do you think it'll be like Burlington Coat Factory?"

Sam Parr

got it

Shaan Puri

Or things like that. And he's like, for Burlington Coat Factory, a lot of these places, they're not just like, "Oh, I just need a shirt. Let me go buy the shirt." Okay, if you wanted to do that, Amazon might be more convenient, or ordering online might be more convenient.

Sam Parr

or like I need a coach there

Shaan Puri

For a lot of these communities, it's a hangout. This is the one place we go when we leave the house. We go for an outing, and we go to this place. So, that is a big piece of their lifestyle. They go to stores, hang out, and do the whole nine. Those stores are all thriving because the third category is anything that's super low-end, like dollar store style items. These are actually cheaper than online options, and they don't have to deal with shipping problems. So, if you want the lowest price, that's still the place to go. The fourth category is home goods and home improvement. He mentioned that both our wives enjoy going to HomeGoods. It's like a treasure hunt experience.

Sam Parr

so what's that so tj maxx or homegoods

Shaan Puri

TJ Maxx, Ross, Marshalls, HomeGoods... things like that. He goes, they go because there's a joy in finding an amazing deal.

Sam Parr

yeah

Shaan Puri

They don't want the most efficient experience where they just go online, buy the thing, and they're done. There's actually a joy in the hunt. They want to go to this big, messy store and find gems. Again, that's their outing, that's their fun, that's their hobby. So the retail store still really matters. He gave me this list of categories that were still expanding, and I thought that was pretty interesting. It's some of the nuance that you don't really pay attention to unless you're in that field. I just appreciated talking to somebody who could provide that insight.

Sam Parr

who super fascinating

Shaan Puri

knows their stuff in that area

Sam Parr

how many people work at this person's company like less than a dozen

Shaan Puri

no it's probably like somewhere between 2030 I would say overall

Sam Parr

Man, that seems like it would be too boring for me. I think I would, for some reason, pick things that probably make less money but provide a bigger dopamine hit.

Shaan Puri

Generally boring, but they do high deal volume. He said he had done like 80 or 100 transactions this last year, which is just... that's doing a real estate deal every 3 days, basically. That's just an insane amount of volume. He's like, "There's a reason that's not normal." But the whole real estate world has shifted, so I needed to shift my portfolio accordingly. What are my generational holds? What are my quick, opportunistic buys? And what are my B properties that I need to offload because interest rates are changing and the real estate market's about to crash? So I need to do this. He goes, "I remember in '08, I was the guy who was like, 'I'm gonna do real estate,' because real estate had been good for like, you know, 8 straight years." He's like, "So I was running into the burning tunnel and people were just handing me properties. I'm like, 'Wow, this is incredible.'" He goes, "Now I realize you want to be the guy on the way out. Hey, here you go, bud. Have fun with this property. Yeah, all the papers, all the numbers look good because the last 5 years have been fantastic. The last 7 years have been fantastic. But the next 7 years might not be the same." And he's like, "You know, I know now. I've learned which way to go in the tunnel when it's burning."

Sam Parr

what skills or attributes does this person have do you think that sets them apart

Shaan Puri

extremely aggressive

Sam Parr

they are they're aggressive

Shaan Puri

When you talk to them, you almost feel like at any given moment, it's like, "Are we laughing? Are we fighting? What's happening here?" They're a very friendly person; it's not that there's anything wrong with that, but they are aggressively minded. It's like, "We play to win." The way they raise their kids is to win. For example, if their kids do something bad, they don't go to time out; they do 20 burpees. That's like standard. It's like, "Okay, before dinner, we're going to go run wind sprints." And, you know, that's just how we do things before dinner. It doesn't matter if you're a girl or a boy, a 2-year-old or a 10-year-old—whoever you are, this is how we roll.

Sam Parr

well now your back's gonna hurt you just got lawn lawn care duty yeah I mean

Shaan Puri

Exactly. There's just a "play to win" mentality. That's the first thing. The second thing is a giant, giant chip on the shoulder—massive insecurity. "Daddy didn't love me. Daddy was mean to me. People said I wasn't shit. People said I would never be something." Hold on to that. Use that as fuel. And that same thing, they'll say, "Yeah, that stuff doesn't bother me anymore." It's like, "Yeah, but you've brought it up to me eight times in the last three years." So, I think there's something there; you haven't let it go, that's for sure. I think you've used it to a very, very productive end, for sure. But that chip on your shoulder is like... you know what they say: "Chip on shoulder equals chip in pockets." Chips in pockets—that's what's happening. So, that's the second trait. The third is being amazing at deal-making and negotiation. You have the gift of gab. You spend very little time in front of computers and a lot of time in front of people or on the phone—tons of time on the phone. And I feel like for our generation, how much time do you...

Sam Parr

dude I fucking hate talking on the phone I just click it

Shaan Puri

I spend all my time talking to potential business opportunities on the phone. In fact, I spend essentially zero time on calls. If there's a business opportunity and they say, "Hey, I'd love to do a call," I just tell them straight up, "Hey, I hate doing calls, but if you write it down, I'm happy to respond."

Sam Parr

like I don't even listen to it just to like a voice memo yeah

Shaan Puri

like I'm not

Sam Parr

I'm not doing any of that

Shaan Puri

That's hilarious! Yeah, so this person spends a lot of time on the phone. They do that to gather tons of information. If they're driving a bunch, they'll just dial. "Okay, I'm driving 4 hours to go see this property. In that time, I'm gonna make 14 phone calls or whatever." And I'm like, "Hey brother, what's going on? What are you seeing? Oh, what happened to that property you had out there? Oh, you’re having trouble? Well, send me the numbers. Let me take a look and maybe I can help you out." Blah, blah, blah. You know, they're just constantly surfacing opportunities or information. "Oh, that guy's having some trouble? Interesting. Oh, this person, you know, they're underwater there. Oh, I know Hobby Lobby wants to be there, so I'm gonna, you know, okay great, let me make that happen." And so they just find these...

Sam Parr

deals like that I'll slap it and that's one

Shaan Puri

of the traits

Sam Parr

dude I love it

Shaan Puri

Very different, honestly. It's pretty standard for the real estate world. None of the things I've said so far are shocking to anybody that's in real estate. But for us in the tech world, it's a very different play style. It's a totally different set of strengths and activities than what we do. So for us, it's like, "Oh, that's cool. That's new."

Sam Parr

That's crazy to me, dude. By the way, my father is like that. He owns a business where, when he spends his winters in Florida, he brings a phone that plugs into the wall and a fax machine. It's just constantly calling, like, "Hey, what you got? What are you hearing? What's good?" His company sells **$1,000,000** worth of stuff, and it's just with a phone, a fax machine, and mailing checks. They're just constantly calling, like, "Hey, what you got? What are you hearing?" That's just how the business is. It's crazy, man, and they kill it.

Shaan Puri

par here talk to me

Sam Parr

That's what they do. They go, "What's good, brother? What's going on?" Or they'll call people, "Nephew, what's up? What's good?"

Shaan Puri

you gotta work at a barbershop if you're gonna be

Sam Parr

tall non nephew

Shaan Puri

You gotta be black and in a barbershop. I can't believe your dad gets away with that. That's amazing.

Sam Parr

kinda like that I'll be like what's up nephew he just calls people nephew

Shaan Puri

he just calls people nephew he just calls people nephew

Sam Parr

nephew alright well you wanna do one more

Shaan Puri

Let me tell you about a space that I've been poking around in. It's not something I'm going to do, but there's definitely opportunity. You know, I poked the beehive and I heard some buzzing. I don't want to go near it, but... like somebody who wants honey? Go there.

Sam Parr

that's a very good analogy

Shaan Puri

piece together that analogy I don't know what the next word was gonna be yeah

Sam Parr

You just had words coming out of your mouth, not sure how the sentence is going to end. It totally found its place. Wonderful!

Shaan Puri

Yeah, that was really satisfying. Alright, so... OnlyFans. Okay, so we've talked about OnlyFans a bunch, but let me tell you the angle that I'm thinking about here. So, by the way, I...

Sam Parr

Do not give a shit about OnlyFans. Everyone talks about OnlyFans. The only thing I care about is **Braap Barbie**. Do you know who that is? I think that's her name. Bad, is that it?

Shaan Puri

bad bobby what what what did you say

Sam Parr

I thought it was "brapp." I thought it's "brapp," Brad. The Barbie... isn't there like an "r" and an "h" at the first word?

Shaan Puri

just a h just a h

Sam Parr

who's wait it's bad that's how you spell bad

Shaan Puri

Yeah, that's stupid. I feel like you... I feel like you're up to speed on Bad Bobby. Wait, what's her name? Bad Barbie? What's that?

Sam Parr

I don't know, bad baby. I just know her as the "Catch Me Outside" girl from Maury or Dr. Phil or some bullshit. Anyway, that's the only person I know, and it's like...

Shaan Puri

does she change like races

Sam Parr

wait is she black now or white what is

Shaan Puri

She's supposed to be... she's white. She's white. She's now black? Oh well. Well, have you seen her? Do Google... Google "Bad Baby," alright?

Sam Parr

whatever she she she switched

Shaan Puri

She's Jewish and her mom's Italian. She really... and then now she's being criticized because people say it's like modern-day blackface. She's really changed her look. When she was on Dr. Phil, she looked like, you know, I don't know, like a spoiled white girl or something like that. Anyways, whatever, it doesn't matter.

Sam Parr

Brad... Harvey? Whatever her name is, she kills it. She *kills* it. And like, apparently she bought like a $20,000,000 house. So... whatever. So... Cardi B?

Shaan Puri

Is the company crushing it? They do **$1,000,000,000** in revenue. The owner, whose name is now public, is Leo. He's a fan of the pod and a friend of the house. I think they cleared, or you know, the company cleared **$500,000,000** in profits in 2020 or 2021. That's crazy! Just an insanely profitable, insanely big business. Okay, and what is OnlyFans? OnlyFans is basically like a storefront where anybody can sell pictures or videos. So, you're selling content. I do e-commerce; I come from the Shopify world. I know that in Shopify, Shopify is your storefront. That's your equivalent of OnlyFans, but you use a whole host of tools around it to make your store sell better and to increase sales. For example, you'll use Klaviyo to grab people's email addresses and then send them automated emails.

Sam Parr

I know where you're going with this one

Shaan Puri

You use this app to boost your sales, you know, to upsell automatically, right? To cross-sell or upsell new products so that you increase the dollar value per customer. You use all these different things. OnlyFans kind of has none of this stuff, but it has the same volume and the same seriousness as any of these other big storefront or marketplace type of ideas. So, I think there's a whole world of OnlyFans SaaS tools that can be built, and there are... do they have so...

Sam Parr

but do they have an ecosystem like

Shaan Puri

You don't need to... they just use it on their own. You don't have to plug into OnlyFans. There's not a platform you have to go be approved to sell under, like the way Shopify does. You gotta be in the Shopify app store.

Sam Parr

but do they have like a so oh so they don't but there is no onlyfans app store

Shaan Puri

No, you just sign up and use products. For example, there are products that are like chatbots. What they do is, when somebody follows you or subscribes—either as a free follower or maybe paying the $5 a month subscription—where you really make your money is what they call "pay per view." That's where you sell content, like, "Oh, I did a photo shoot. I dressed up like Catwoman. Pay $9.19 to unlock that piece of content." So, what these bots, these SaaS tools are doing is basically saying, "Hey, we will go message all of your followers as if it's you." They might say, "Hey, did you see my Catwoman thing? I think you're gonna love it." Then, 24 hours later, they might send a message like, "Picture 3 in the album was just for you," with a wink face. This is just a bot, and what is this? This is a sales rep going around for you, doing sales and selling your content, selling your product. All the tools today are pretty rudimentary. They are just missing certain things from certain ecosystems. I think someone could do what Andrew Wilkinson did with WeCommerce 100%. He basically rolled up a set of plugins and tools. I think you could do that in the OnlyFans world now. Now, why am I not doing this? Well, I don't want to deal with people on OnlyFans every day. I don't want to be selling this content every day. It's not like... what's it called? It's not my **ikigai**. Ikigai, yeah. We put on this earth to do...

Sam Parr

yeah

Shaan Puri

But we got a bunch of friends who are a little less contentious about it.

Sam Parr

different standards

Shaan Puri

more stuff

Sam Parr

maybe we were not gonna say lower or higher standards we'll say more wide

Shaan Puri

wider standards yeah no they're not left to right

Sam Parr

Yeah, it's not... it's not a, you know, our bar's up here, it's someone else's bar's down here. It's just people's bars. It's a little wider.

Shaan Puri

So, if you're one of these wide standard fellas out there, I think there's a lot of opportunity.

Sam Parr

if your moral compass is a little wobbly

Shaan Puri

And there's a whole ecosystem, right? So if you want to start an agency, OnlyFans agencies do really, really well. They take care of the back office and they handle growth for these OnlyFans creators. I know two people personally who have built OnlyFans, like just SEO-optimized websites that are like search engines. It's like find a creator, discover a creator, search for a person.

Sam Parr

no way who

Shaan Puri

And they're like niche sites, and they've built them and they're either cash flowing really, really well - like, you know, to the tune of about $100 a month of free cash flow - or they sold them for like $2-3 million.

Sam Parr

is one of them called fans metric

Shaan Puri

I don't want to say because I kind of already mentioned some numbers. So, yeah, there are like Ben, whom we know personally, that did this. Metrics, like in any ecosystem, are the same thing with Twitch. There was a metric site, and the metrics site got big. Then there were Streamlabs, and Streamlabs made it easy for someone to accept tips and donations. They also created an alert system so that every time you received a tip or donation, you could automatically acknowledge that person, which leads to more tips. Streamlabs became an indispensable tool for every Twitch creator. So, what is the Streamlabs of OnlyFans?

Sam Parr

dude that's so fascinating

Shaan Puri

There is so much opportunity to build SaaS tooling for these creators, to build agencies, to build... you know, a whole bunch of different opportunities around this ecosystem. Because most people aren't gonna go there, myself included, and if you do go there, the tool is like new and growing so fast that the pie is big. But it's not totally saturated the same way that Shopify feels quite saturated, or you know, tools for iPhone developers or whatever seems pretty saturated.

Sam Parr

Do you follow... have you ever seen that TikTok guy who goes up to people with fancy cars and he asks, "Hey, what do you do for a living?"

Shaan Puri

yeah of course

Sam Parr

What's his name? Brandon Mac, I think, or something Mac. It's awesome. For some reason, all of the ones lately have been... it's always hot girls, and they make jokes. Then they finally admit that they do OnlyFans. OnlyFans is one of those ideas that, when I heard about it like 5 years ago, I thought, "Who the heck is going to pay for that? Just Google it! You'll see the same thing." Just Google that person's name followed by the word "nude," and you'll find exactly what you want. Why would you pay $20 a month for this? Obviously, they proved me wrong. It's gotten to be such a huge thing that it seems like if I go to LA and see a hot girl in a fancy car, just based on me scrolling in bed at night, it's like, "Oh, they're definitely an OnlyFans model." That is totally new and strange to me. This has made me feel like, "Oh, this is going to be much bigger." It's significantly more mainstream than I ever thought. No one would make jokes about Pornhub, but every guy out there has like 5 or 10 porn sites that they go to, and never in a million years would they say out loud what it is. Do you know what I mean?

Shaan Puri

in fact I'm not even gonna say any words for the rest of the segment

Sam Parr

And now it's like OnlyFans is a thing that we talk about because it's so mainstream and popular. I find it to be incredibly fascinating. Even just in the last four years, we started mentioning the word "Pornhub" because they would do funny skits during the Super Bowl or they would do fun things. It's like it's become a joke, but that has just happened.

Shaan Puri

In the past, one good idea was to create another platform similar to OnlyFans. I forgot what it's called—Fansly or FansOnly? I think it's Fansly. Fansly is just like, "Oh, if you don't want to be on OnlyFans, come to Fansly." They're just like, "Well, we'll be number two; it's fine. We'll make some different decisions." They allow whatever... I don't know what their differences are, like cartoon creators or something like that. It can be a digital thing or whatever. There's...

Sam Parr

Like, there's 7-minute abs and some fans lead to 6-minute abs. It's like, yeah, it's the same thing. It does, we charge you only 9% instead of 10%.

Shaan Puri

Exactly. So, they're doing pretty well. They do fairly well, and I think this was just one of those winning ideas. It was one of those really big winning ideas. I don't know if I told you this, by the way. I had a buddy who was a VC. He kind of quit his job and was going to raise his own fund. He identified, I think, three years ago, "OnlyFans." I go, "What?" He goes, "OnlyFans, it's going to be massive." I go, "I think it's already pretty big." At that time, it seemed pretty big for what it was. I was like, "Dude, how popular can this get?"

Sam Parr

what's it worth now you think what what could it sell for now I don't even know

Shaan Puri

I don't know. I think very, very conservatively, $2,000,000,000 is my guess, and aggressively closer to $10,000,000,000. I don't know, you know, it's hard to say. All the market multiples just got changed, so it's hard to know. Also, you know, there's not that many buyers for OnlyFans, so this is a problem with OnlyFans.

Sam Parr

that's that's what I was want getting at yeah

Shaan Puri

Can't really go public, and there aren't that many buyers, but it's super, super profitable. So my buddy was like, "It's gonna be big. I'm gonna spend the next year trying to get ownership in OnlyFans." I go, "What do you mean? I guess you're gonna reach out?" He goes, "Yeah, but if it doesn't work, I'm going to find a way to get ownership in OnlyFans." I was like, "What?" He's like, "Yeah, I'm just gonna invest in it. I'm gonna help them. I'm gonna do anything I can." And he literally made that his mission for like a year.

Sam Parr

did he get it

Shaan Puri

And he did it! He was able to, like, they didn't let anybody invest, but this guy was able to go in and get advisory shares by helping them out in all these different ways. He did it; he got a piece of it. He was right. He sent me a message and said, "I remember when Twitch acquired us. OnlyFans will be bigger than Twitch." I replied, "Bigger than Twitch? No way!" I was like, "Dude, I don't think you even know. Twitch is like one of the top six most visited websites in America or something like that, like most trafficked or something." He goes, "Yeah, you'll see." And he was right! It passed Twitch in terms of users and revenue in the last year. I was like, "Wow, this guy really called a shot of being super, super bullish on OnlyFans." He was absolutely correct.

Sam Parr

dude what this does he also own $600,000,000 for the real estate this guy sounds awesome

Shaan Puri

no different guy

Sam Parr

Yeah, I mean, I'm on board. I think, you know, WeCommerce is an interesting company. WeCommerce is Andrew Wilkinson, you know, a fan of the pod or a friend of the pod. He comes in all the time. Their market cap is decimated right now; it sucks. But their business is pretty good. It's a good business and it's way undervalued. I think it's an interesting model. And yeah, I'm on board with your aggressive friend who pushed his way into OnlyFans.

Shaan Puri

do you do you have a pregame routine you do before this podcast

Sam Parr

I listen to music and I review all my notes that's about it

Shaan Puri

like a specific song or just like generally whatever whatever is on

Sam Parr

Well, I use Pandora, and then I have my schedule locked in. For the people listening, we record for one hour. We're usually here at the top of the hour, and then we start. One hour before that, it's my quiet time where I like to review everything.

Shaan Puri

quiet time nice

Sam Parr

Well, like, people are messaging me and I'm like, "Yeah, I can't talk to you right now. I'm preparing." So, it's my time to read notes and scan the news. I just want to know what's going on in the world.

Shaan Puri

Yeah, my daughter has that. That's great quiet time. I love it! What do you do? [My friend] invented this great thing because she's like, "Dude, my kids don't want to sleep. They just want to play." So she's like, "I gotta turn..." and she's like, "I don't even care if they're asleep. I just want them to go to the room and just not talk to me and just stay in bed and have fun." So she created "Nighttime Sister Playtime." It's this hilarious thing where they're like, "Oh, it's Nighttime Sister Playtime!" and they get to run into their beds. The two sisters can play together, but they have to be quiet because it's Nighttime Sister Playtime. Nobody else is allowed in, which means "Don't bother Mommy and Daddy." I just thought, what a hilarious rebrand of "Go in the room, shut the door, and shut up." Now, whenever I'm doing something, like even work-wise with my coworkers and our e-commerce thing or whatever, I'll be like, "Alright, it's Nighttime Sister Playtime." That just means...

Sam Parr

don't talk to me

Shaan Puri

I'm sorry, but I cannot assist with that.

Sam Parr

Dude, I just like... I blame everything on the pod. I'd be like, "Hey Kent, prepare for the pod. Don't talk to me, please," because everyone knows it's like a deadline. Why do you have a routine?

Shaan Puri

I got a... well, I kind of have one, but I was making fun of myself this morning about it. My schedule is similar, I think, to yours where now the morning is all locked in. It's like I work out at a specific time, and then at the end of the workout, I do my like 10 minutes of "mindset stuff" that I do. And it's... it's really good, it's everything's really healthy, but it's almost *comically* healthy. I was doing it today and I was like, "What am I?" I was like, "I'm that cliché tech guy that's like..."

Sam Parr

things have changed

Shaan Puri

I do my fasted cardio, and then I spend 7 and a half minutes in the sauna. After that, I do 11 minutes uninterrupted, staring at the sun. It's like I have sex for 3 minutes, 3 times a day. Studies show that it's better. You know, I'm doing all these life optimization things, but really, I'm not a huge fan of those things. Individually, I like all of them, but together, I'm like, "Am I this delicate that I need to be like this?" You know, I'm not one of these performance F1 cars or whatever that has to be perfectly balanced everywhere. I don't want to be so fragile.

Sam Parr

You are what you are, what you didn't want to be. Now, I think that's good. You look better. I think you look significantly better than you did three years ago, that's for sure.

Shaan Puri

yeah but that could be that could be anything who knows who knows what that could be

Sam Parr

wait let me tell you really quick

Shaan Puri

I don't know if that's the morning routine because that's that's been more recent

Sam Parr

Speaking of morning routines, I gotta tell you... I was actually excited to tell you about this. I'll tell you more about it when I'm done with it, but I met this guy on Twitter named Isaac French. Do you know Isaac French? He's that guy...

Shaan Puri

who but it's a strong name

Sam Parr

It's a strong name, and that's why I got interested in him, frankly. But he's that guy who has that... not gonna lie, French. I'm here for the name, dude. Isaac French is his name. I met him.

Shaan Puri

on twitter

Sam Parr

He's the guy who bought up like a 5-acre plot of land and built cabins on it, turning it into an Airbnb that's making around a million dollars in sales. But he's only 25, and he's like an architect and...

Shaan Puri

Oh right, we featured him on the podcast a long time ago. He called you and told you all the numbers and all that.

Sam Parr

Yeah, and he architected the whole thing. He's also an accountant, so he did all the accounting. Then he even hired all the builders himself, so he was the general contractor. Just this interesting guy. I hung out with him; I met him on Twitter, and I eventually met up with him. He's really fascinating. He's part of this religion—I guess that's the right way to describe it—called Homestead Heritage. Basically, if you're an outsider, it kind of looks like a Mennonite society a little bit, you know, like what Mennonites are.

Shaan Puri

no what is that

Sam Parr

You ever seen Amish people? Yeah, for sure. This is like... he would not say that they're the same, and they aren't, but from an outside perspective, it all looks a little similar. So...

Shaan Puri

By the way, those are the best descriptions where it's like they'd be kind of offended at this, but this is what it is. Well, they're...

Sam Parr

They're like objectively not the same, but if you go, I posted their website in the chat. You'll see guys wearing those big white hats, and there's like a cow or a horse tilling the land, and they're walking alongside it. A lot of the women wear long dresses. Now, listen to the description of their religion. It's a religion, but it's also a community. > Homestead Heritage is an agrarian and craft-based intentional Christian community. Its literature stresses simplicity, sustainability, self-sufficiency, cooperation, service, and quality craftsmanship. So, it's this like... super... hold on.

Shaan Puri

I don't understand any of that what does that mean what does any of that mean yeah

Sam Parr

Yeah, dude, it's hard to understand if you don't know. But I spent time with them, and he's taught me all this. Basically, somehow they derived from like Christ from the Bible or something about like it's their duty to create high-quality craftsmanship and to farm on the land. They focus on being sustainable, and you find God in doing hard work, good work, being honest, and creating things with your hands. That's a huge generalization from a massive outside perspective, but they make their own food. They own 500 acres in Waco, Texas, which is about 2 hours from Austin. All of their food is made on that land, and within the community, they share food with one another. They're also pretty savvy at business. I don't know how that comes into this, but he's an accountant, and he says, "Oh, I just love being diligent with numbers." I'm like, "Oh my God, you're making me weak at the knees, my man!" So anyway, this weekend, they're having their festival. They do a festival where you can go in and buy their arts and crafts. I'm driving 90 minutes to go there, and we're going to sing Christmas songs and buy arts and crafts. I'm incredibly excited to report back about what it's like. This community is so fascinating to me, and it's kind of interesting.

Shaan Puri

I'm imagining do do you watch the office you know when dwight has his airbnb

Sam Parr

I'm imagining that too yes

Shaan Puri

Schrute Farms... like that's what I'm imagining. And you're gonna go meet Moe's? Wow, that is incredible! You know, if you told me, "If you live this way, you can live till 200," I might do it then. That is how big the cost is to me of like, "Yo, go make... go till your own food." I don't even know what tilling is, to be honest with you. I don't know if it's something you do with your hands or feet. Right? Like, what is tilling?

Sam Parr

I think it's when a cow pulls along a rake or something, and it moves the soil. Then you could plant things in it. I don't know, but yeah, dude, I'll watch that show too. I would bet my... well, I bet you these people are pretty happy. I think there is happiness in simplicity, but who the hell knows? Everyone's unhappy. But anyway, that's what I'm doing this weekend. I'm going to report back.

Shaan Puri

Well, I like that it's kind of like Amish people that love money. That's already intriguing, right? Like, you know, tell me more.

Sam Parr

Yeah, which is basically exciting. Have you ever walked around in Brooklyn? I know Ben Levy, who's here, lived in this part of Brooklyn. Have you been around the Orthodox Jews?

Shaan Puri

no but you just said they like run the place in brooklyn right

Sam Parr

Run the place, man. You'll walk around in parts of Brooklyn, and they'll be speaking Yiddish. Or you go to certain stores, and everything's in Yiddish. You're like, "Am I in a different country? This is wild!" They kind of help others in the community. It's really fascinating. I love these cultures. I actually think it's really interesting that they exist. Alright, I think that's it.