This Husband & Wife Built A Billion Dollar Media Empire (#441)

Shaan Puri

Their TV show got canceled, but Discovery gives them a whole network. Discovery is like, "Yo, we're gonna make the Magnolia Network all around you guys." You guys are gonna create like 100 hours of TV that's fixer-upper content, cooking content, gardening content—like all the house stuff, right? Now they've built this empire. The bottom line, or the headline of this story, is that this couple, in a span of about 10 years, has built a **$1,000,000,000** brand around themselves.

Sam Parr

so it's that big

Shaan Puri

it's that big

Sam Parr

alright well it's my job

Shaan Puri

Keith, in what just happened? So, before we hit record, it's like 5, 4, 3, 2, 1. And Sam, on 3, takes out a drink out of nowhere. At 3 seconds left, he just chugs it. He tilts it up, not only just tilting it up but also squeezing the bottle like it's a Kool-Aid or a Capri Sun or something. He's chugging some carbonated drink, and then it goes to 1. He puts up the 1, simple, simple. He looks to the side, burps, flexes, recenters himself, and he's ready for the podcast. That was elite! That was an elite prep for a podcast, dude.

Sam Parr

On top of it, I drink so many beverages. We had this *Fast Company* article written about the Hampton launch, and the reporter, in like the first paragraph, called out how I left the interview to grab a root beer and came back.

Shaan Puri

Yeah, he skimmed the foam off the root beer like it was a Guinness and then finished it.

Sam Parr

held up the held

Shaan Puri

Up, the one-second sign to my lips told me to shush as he drained his recruiter during the interview.

Sam Parr

You know how men drink like IPAs and crap, and then they look at the glass after they take a drink and try to analyze it? That's basically what I do with my Coke Zero.

Shaan Puri

Dude, you should... you gotta have more weird quirks because you can't really be a billionaire founder if you're not super weird. So, you know, you gotta start picking up some things like: * "Oh, he only wears open-toed sandals with socks" * "He wears shorts with EMF protection on his pockets because he's worried about radiation" And... what are the other weird things that you can do?

Sam Parr

Well, I had carbonated water on tap for a while. That was pretty awesome! I only drink carbonated water, not normal water.

Shaan Puri

only sleeps during full moons

Sam Parr

do you have a you don't have any eccentricities do you

Shaan Puri

No, that's why I'm broke, dude. I need some of these before, you know? Otherwise, how can I be the weird, rich billionaire I'm trying to be?

Sam Parr

We have Sean, and I have these friends. I won't name who they are, but they're young guys. The minute they got a mild amount of success, like maybe $500,000 in revenue, they clearly had read Naval's book on charging by time or something like that. Then they sent all of their clients to their client services business, saying, "We don't do meetings anymore." They were leaning into that eccentricity thing. I wanted to tell them, "You guys are doing great, but you're not there yet."

Shaan Puri

and they're and the biggest customer dropped them immediately it was like oh

Sam Parr

yeah well

Shaan Puri

We kind of needed to meet to talk about the... I guess we'll just find another vendor.

Sam Parr

yeah when it's all I'm like it's great I love the attitude

Shaan Puri

You know, I showed up to meetings with my shirt off, and I was just like, "Well, that's cool. It's one way... yeah, it's one way to wear your shirt."

Sam Parr

That... that's not the way that particular client was willing to do it. So, it's no longer their client. But that is our way, right? That is definitely our way.

Shaan Puri

they do have a nipple policy unfortunately

Sam Parr

yeah they're not on board with the free the nip campaign unfortunately

Shaan Puri

yeah oh we forgot to shout out

Sam Parr

We're doing a live podcast on April 29th, which is a Saturday. If you live in Austin or if you want to fly in, Sean and I, along with MFM guest Andrew Wilkinson, are doing a live pod. If you go to **mfmpod.com**, you'll see the details and you can purchase tickets. We're going to do a live pod; we did this in Vancouver a couple of months ago and it sold out. This one's going to sell as well, so if you're interested in hanging out with Sean, me, Andrew Wilkinson, as well as 500 to 600 other guests and fans of MFM, we're going to be there. Check it out at **mfmpod.com** and you'll see the banner up top where you can check out tickets. Dude, we have a bunch of stuff! You have Chip and Joanna Gaines on there today, and I went to Waco this weekend where they are from. Oh, no way! I saw some of their houses.

Shaan Puri

That's crazy! Okay, so you might know more about this than I do. Let me tee it up and then you tell me what you know about these people. Here's my trail of events, and I'll put the disclaimer out there right now: If you actually know about them, then this is going to all sound very elementary. This is going to sound very, very beginner because I was a complete beginner about like, "Who are these people?" I walked around in Target...

Sam Parr

For their listener though, Sean doesn't know... I told him what Coldplay was last week. Like, he didn't know. He thought that was like baseball in the wintertime. He didn't know anything about pop culture. So this is you learning out loud.

Shaan Puri

Yeah, exactly. I still use a flip phone. So, I left my house and went to Target. Inside Target, there's this one section that my wife always goes into. It's the only section in Target that looks like this, where there's a giant picture of this happy white couple, and it's their names. It's like, "Oh, here's aisle 1, 2, 3, 4, 5: Chip and Joanna Gaines, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10." So, why do they have their own section? I noticed that first and thought, "That's interesting. Who are these YouTubers? Who are these people? Is this the owner of Target? What is this?" I filed that away. Then, I was talking to Aldon, who came on the pod, or we talked about him on the pod. He runs Missouri Star Quilt Company, a big quilt company, you know, a huge quilt company. He did this thing where he started buying up a section of a town. He basically bought a town and started to build it out. He wanted to make it like, you know, quilt heaven. So, basically, a mecca for where quilters would go as a pilgrimage to really indulge in their hobby. He told me...

Sam Parr

disney world for grandmas

Shaan Puri

Disney World... for your auntie. So, he was like, "Alright, well..." I go, "Does anybody else do this?" And he goes, "Well, there's the Chip and Joanna Gaines thing in Waco." I go, "There they are again! Who are these people?" You know, "Fool me once, shame on me; fool me twice, shame on me." Finally, I'll look you up. I looked them up, and they have an incredible story. It sounds like you're pretty familiar with them, but he had told me one thing that...

Sam Parr

kinda caught

Shaan Puri

my attention he goes

Sam Parr

It shocks me, by the way, that you don't know about these people. I mean, like in the Midwest and amongst moms... you're so California that you don't know about this. They've been in the game for like 10 years, but I don't know too much about them either.

Shaan Puri

Yeah, it's, you know, it's quaint. But I looked them up, and the YouTube videos are amazing, by the way. If you watch the YouTube videos, they own a part of town in Waco that they've just branded as their own. They bought these two abandoned grain silos, and so they call it like "Siloville" or whatever. They have the "Silobration" at the end of the year, which is just a huge party for themselves. Their brand, Magnolia, is everywhere in this little area. They have the Magnolia Market where you can buy your stuff, and then they have the Magnolia Table restaurant, which is served by the vegetables from Joanna's garden. Then there's the Magnolia other thing, and then there's the Magnolia other thing. It's just all them, and they get about 2 million visitors a year just coming and making the pilgrimage to Waco, Texas, which is really the middle of nowhere for Texas. I lived in Texas, and I never went to Waco; it was not even in my top ten places to go in Texas. They have made Waco a destination. They literally have raised the housing prices in that area by like 24% because they have made it an attraction. Their story is kind of interesting. I don't know if you know their backstory. Do you know it pretty well? I don't. So, the story goes something like this, and again, I'm a beginner, so I'm doing the thing where you read the press release and you're like, "Oh, that's how they met. How fortunate!" Or, you know, when you hear about somebody saying, "How'd you think of the idea?" It's like, "Well, I saw a single mother struggling, and I just decided that that would be my mission." It's like, no dude, you read a report that said this market was growing, and that's why you started this business. But like, here's the PR version of their story: they live in Waco, Texas. Chip, the guy, goes into this car repair shop that her dad owns, sees a picture of her on the wall, and decides, "I'm gonna marry that girl." Suspicious, but okay. He keeps going back to the car repair shop.

Sam Parr

That story... it could go a different route. It's totally like when you whisper in someone's ear "I see you" versus writing it on their mirror when they're in the shower, you know what I mean? Context matters here. The ending of the story really makes it okay, but it could go another way.

Shaan Puri

she doesn't end up in a freezer so yeah so he keeps going back and he eventually bumps into her he asks her out on a date they go on a date whatever they end up getting together this is back in like 2,003 ish and so he was doing house flipping and she was kinda like I guess like working with the doing like commercials for her dad's car car repair place or whatever and they get together and they decide they they don't have anything to their name but they decide to try to try to make something of this house flipping thing she's like oh I could use my design sense you're a contractor and let's so they move into this like 800 square foot house and they renovate it while they live there end up flipping 1 flipping 2 flipping 3 they they start to you know successfully flip some houses in waco but still no big deal then a tv show from hgtv starts casting and they read about the this husband and wife house flipper in in waco texas they said well waco we're kinda hoping for somebody in la or new york or maybe atlanta or something like that but like okay whatever let's go down to waco and meet him and and he's got this like kind of big personality he's he's real outgoing and she's really good looking and so it like plays well for tv so they get their show on hgtv called fixer upper and basically the show like from day 1 is a hit and so they go from kinda husband and wife small time house flippers like very small houses that they're flipping in in waco to now on tv and they they're doing this and they do 5 or 6 seasons they become very famous on hgtv show gets cancelled but what they did was they had built this this following and they had built they had this brand in mind that they had called magnolia like they had opened up a retail store back in the day they closed it because it wasn't really going so well but they had this idea for this store called magnolia so when the show ends they do 2 things they reopen magnolia as a beautiful place in waco and then secondly they go to the the just the channel discovery channel and they go and their tv show got cancelled but met but discovery gives them a whole network discovery's like yo we're gonna make the magnolia network all around you guys and you guys are gonna create like 100 of hours of of like tv that's fixer upper content cooking content gardening content like all the like house shit right and now they've built this empire the the kind of the the bottom line or the whole the the headline of the story is this couple in a in a span of about 10 years has built a $1,000,000,000 brand around themselves

Sam Parr

so it's that big

Shaan Puri

It's that big. So, there are no real numbers that have come out. If you go look for their net worth or their revenue, it's super hush-hush, which, you know, just makes these little hairs on my arm start to tingle a little bit. I know, yeah, I know when it's that hush-hush, that means it's a lot bigger than you think. Especially because you see it like Target partnered with them to develop that line of goods in their store. So, it's not even like they got their brand into Target; it's like Target came to them and was like, "Let's make a brand." That's a big deal they have.

Sam Parr

Killers move in silence. Killers move in silence, and you hear... Yeah, so if you don't hear about it in TechCrunch, you know it's doing good.

Shaan Puri

But I thought you were gonna hit them with a cheese and lasagna type of line. Type of... no, no, not well.

Sam Parr

you know I I I think I've I've milked that one dry

Shaan Puri

Dude, it's like my mom when she was on the phone with a customer service person. And you're like, "A as in Apple, B as in Bob..." Whatever. She goes, "K as in Knife." I just lost it. I was like, "I don't think you understand how that works."

Sam Parr

yeah it's like that's hilarious

Shaan Puri

like k is they they operate like k as in knife I grew up

Sam Parr

On this street called Simpson, and I would be like, "You know, my address is this, this, this Simpson... like OJ Simpson." And it works.

Shaan Puri

Anyways, their app that has their TV show network has like tens of thousands of reviews on it. So that means that the app is doing pretty well. That's a paid service; it's like their own version of Netflix, right? That's kind of stunning. You never really see an influencer that has their own whole subscription network. They have cookbooks, journals, retail stores, a paint brand, and a furniture brand. They have their TV show network; they got everything. This idea is impressive. They even have their own town, which gets 2,000,000 visitors a year. If your website gets 2,000,000 visitors a year, you're doing pretty okay, right? You're out there! Let alone 2,000,000 people making the pilgrimage to your small town in Waco to come buy things from your stores. That's kind of impressive. I guarantee you that these people will end up billionaires off of this Magnolia brand. This Magnolia brand has to be worth hundreds of millions, if not over a billion dollars already.

Sam Parr

Have you ever been to Waco? No, dude. So, I went to Waco this weekend because... and I'll tell a quick story, then we'll get back to this. Basically, last year, I randomly came across this guy who had this new Airbnb. It was basically a piece of land where he built a lake and seven Airbnbs. I was so curious; I couldn't find him on social media, so I called him up. He built a lake? Yeah, he built a lake. It was like a plot of land, and they built—not a huge lake, more of a pond is a better word to describe it. But it's a lake, I guess. I called him up and said, "Tell me your story." He goes, "Well, I had a part... I was an accountant. I had my own small business for accounting. I just built this Airbnb thing; I think it's gonna be really successful. But I really describe myself as an artist. I love to paint and play music." Right away, I'm like, "I'm in! Do you want to hang out?" So, I started hanging out with him. He's part of this thing I mentioned called Homestead Heritage. It's this religion/community; it's like all different parts of Christianity in it. They believe in sustainability, and the weird part is they believe in craftsmanship. So, the way that they find God is by doing things with their hands and doing it well. Anyway, this weekend, I went and celebrated Easter at his church, and they had a whole singing thing. I stayed in his Airbnb.

Shaan Puri

for a long time or did this it was like a recently created religion okay

Sam Parr

Basically, the story is that one of the main guys, who is Isaac's wife's grandfather, lived in New York. He was an atheist but somehow found God. He felt that the best way to show his love for God was to be excellent in everything he did and to be kind to people, among other things. For some reason, they moved to Waco, where they acquired 500 acres and built a whole community. Now, this guy Isaac has built an Airbnb a few miles away. He tweeted out his profits, and in his first year of business, he made $1,000,000 in profit. I went and became friends with them, and I hung out there. I drove all through Waco, and honestly, Waco... sorry Waco people, it's not nice. It's not the best place; it's objectively a fairly rundown area. It feels like it was once an oil town, as if there was something there before, but now it's not. When you drive through that area, you see a mix of not-so-nice houses and then a nice house. I told him that, and he said, "Oh yeah, that's the Chip and Joanna's house." They started remodeling homes here, and you can distinctly tell which ones are their brand. So, basically, Isaac French brings in all these people, and Chip and Joanna are way above him, but that's my understanding of Waco at the moment.

Shaan Puri

Yeah, there's these... like, kind of simplicity-based communities or religions or cultures where it's like... I'm on their homepage right now. It says: > "Homestead Heritage is an agrarian, craft-based intentional Christian community. It stresses simplicity, sustainability, self-sufficiency, service, and quality craftsmanship." And then there's literally like a video of a cow eating leaves and then like a boy stitching a baseball himself, which... yeah.

Sam Parr

like I

Shaan Puri

said I never did

Sam Parr

Well, I was like... Isaac showed me around. He goes, "Here, let me show you the orchard I planted last week." You know, and it's got like 200 apple trees. He's like, "We did this for the community. Anyone can come pick an apple. It'll be ready in like 5 years." And that's what he does instead of watching TV. So if I... I'll be like, "Hey, have you seen this movie?" He's like, "No, I don't really watch movies. I'm planting trees."

Shaan Puri

not not a whole lot of bifurcilling podcast listeners out there probably

Sam Parr

There were a few. I think there were a few, but you know, they're more fans of like Johnny Appleseed than Sean Perry.

Shaan Puri

yeah that's

Sam Parr

I don't think yeah

Shaan Puri

you know what I mean like they're they're not like super specific posters in their room

Sam Parr

Yeah, but... dude, when I—so I've told the story many times. I used to work for Mike Wolfe from *American Pickers*, and that was where I first learned about entertainment and business and things like that. At the time, *American Pickers* was like the second most popular show on TV when I worked there. Number one was *Pawn Stars*, and number four was David Letterman, just to give you an idea. For real, those were the real rankings. I would be at the store, and some days we would sell $30,000 worth of T-shirts. These were not nice T-shirts; they were just normal ones with the logo on it. We would also sell like $10 worth of mugs. So, these shows really kill it. What Mike did was film himself. Basically, the show is about him driving to barns, finding old stuff, telling you the history about it, buying it, and then selling it. He spent like four years driving around with a video camera filming this, trying to pitch it. When he finally did pitch it, he got the production rights, or I guess he kind of did what Rob Dyrdek did. I think that's where the money is, and it sounds like that's what Magnolia did too.

Shaan Puri

Yeah, exactly. They did. I mean, the breadth of this empire is kind of stunning to me, right? It's like, whether it's home goods, a restaurant, coffee, books, the bakery, the TV show network, or the Target line. Their brand is like, they're this relatable, you know, blue-collar, salt-of-the-earth people. It's like, yeah, they are, but they also have some part of them that's Rupert Murdoch. They are flexing that Rupert Murdoch over the last, like, you know, 10 years. I wonder if they have a manager or if they're just doing this all themselves.

Sam Parr

Like Rupert Murdoch in Wrangler jeans, you know? We're relatable, but we'll gut your heart out if we had to.

Shaan Puri

right if succession was in denim

Sam Parr

Yeah, no, I dig these people. The worst thing that would happen to them is a "Jon and Kate Plus 8." You remember "Jon and Kate Plus 8," of course?

Shaan Puri

how can I forget

Sam Parr

Man, they were some of the first guys to get popular in the reality TV world of TLC, and then they get divorced and it ends horribly. Just like Honey Boo Boo. Man, Honey Boo Boo... same thing. It always ends horribly. So hopefully it doesn't end that way. I remember seeing...

Shaan Puri

If your shtick is just how many kids you could have, that is not your...

Sam Parr

gonna have a bad

Shaan Puri

time sustainable

Sam Parr

it's

Shaan Puri

Like sometimes you see these YouTubers and they come out real hot because it's like, "I'm buried alive with tarantulas," 10,000,000 clicks. You're like, "Yo, but where to from here, son? Where are you gonna go with this?" This is not a sustainable path for you.

Sam Parr

Yeah, I like these people. I mean, they seem pretty... I don't know, wholesome. But we'll see how money impacts things.

Shaan Puri

Well, you have Oprah on here, and I think that Chip and Joanna Gaines, and other people like them, like Brené Brown, are kind of filling this Oprah gap. Oprah left some big shoes to fill, I feel. I've been amazed by... do you follow Brené Brown very much?

Sam Parr

yeah my wife is reading all her stuff and like she's kinda killing it amongst like the empathy crowd

Shaan Puri

The vulnerability crowd. Yeah, yeah. Oh my god, it's those offenses. We're all about authenticity. Yeah, yeah.

Sam Parr

The capital "E" in **Empathy**. Or, if I hear one more person say the "N" word, **nuance**... then like, that's the thing, man. It's **nuance**. It's **empathy**.

Shaan Puri

But just a little there. I didn't know where you were going with that joke. I was like, "Sam, don't end it here, man. We've had a good run, but don't end it here." Nuance, have you seen her Netflix special?

Sam Parr

no no I I like her but that's not my speed

Shaan Puri

You... it's a gotta watch! It's that good. So go watch her first Netflix special. You gotta watch it just because you've never seen anything like it. It's basically Tony Robbins, Oprah, and a stand-up comedian at the same time. She comes out on stage like a stand-up comedian and she's funny without telling too many jokes. It's not like set-up punchline, but she's funny. Then she starts talking about vulnerability and herself, and people in the crowd are crying. You're just like, "What is happening? What kind of event is this?" It's like, you know, a twister with my emotions. I don't know what's going on. I got my right leg on sad and my left hand on empowered. I didn't know what was happening. It's kind of an incredible little live show that she's created. At first, I was like, "Why would Netflix give a special to this person? I don't even understand what that could be." But it's actually pretty well done for what it is. I can see why she's so likable and why she is so relatable to people.

Sam Parr

you quickly went from like wow to wow

Shaan Puri

yeah exactly

Sam Parr

No, I'll watch her. Can I tell you a little about Oprah? So, we were going to talk about Oprah last time, but we didn't really know what we were talking about. So, I dug in a little bit.

Shaan Puri

I guess the theme of this episode then is, you know, what are the TV empires or female TV empires? Something like that. I don't know. Let's get... let's see where... where.

Sam Parr

We deal with these TV empires that everyone knows about, that you and I are just discovering 20 years after the fact.

Shaan Puri

Empires with empathy that the boys discovered... Yeah, seven years after they were off air.

Sam Parr

capitalize both those e's alright I'll tell you a little bit about oprah so she started at 17 by doing beauty pageants she won miss black tennessee at age 19 she got a first job at cbs station in nashville a few years later she moved to maryland and then back to nashville and eventually she was the 1st african american news anchor on tv and that was in nashville she basically had an issue where she struggled to show objectivity because she couldn't really report the news because she was showing too much empathy and she was pretty casual and at the time like this was like hey oprah you gotta like you know keep it straight you can't like express remorse or like show too men too much emotion and she was like well let's let's take this a different way so she created a show called people are talking and that aired originally in 1977 and she would improvise and she was casual kinda like you and I yeah one? Could say yeah she was like the mfm of the seventies and by the end of the decade so after like 3 or 4 years she was beating phil donahue in the local ratings and phil donahue was god so he was like the man in charge so eventually she keeps doing that for a little while longer but in 1986 so about 10 years after starting that she gets her own show it's called the oprah winfrey show and she along with a a couple outside investors established her own production company called harpo productions harpo is oprah spelled backwards and at 32 years old she became the 1st black woman to have a nationally syndicated show and she still owns 80% of that production company and all along the the way she started like innovating innovating so in 1996 she created the her her book club which made a 130,000,000 in sales in year 1 and arguably set the groundwork for this like massive influencer industry that we have then in 98 she cofounded the oxygen media group which has programming towards all types of shows mostly towards women she launched oprah magazine she had a radio show in 2010 the oprah show ended after 24 years and she had you know all the best guests leading up till then 2011 she launched own oprah winfrey network and then all along has been doing all types of stuff so for example in 2015 she bought 10% stake in weight watchers and then the stock 6 x'd like within a year or 2 of that happening in 2008 she sold most of her stake to own to discovery and she's done a ton of interesting stuff between now and then but listen to her empire so she has the oprah winfrey show which had over 20,000 28,000 guests giving away 570 cars had 5 presidents on she got 20,000 fan letters the finale had 16,400,000 views she also owns harpo still to this day they've collectively it's done $2,000,000,000 in profits it made a couple movies as well including the color purple beloved and selma they have 200 employees in chicago the own so the her network oprah winfrey network it started with a $100,000,000 in funding eventually she sold most of the stake but she's still ceo of that she has oprah magazine which in the 1st year did a 140,000,000 in revenue just from subscriptions and then she has oprah and friends which is a xm radio contract or or or show where she got $55,000,000 in the 1st 3 years she's invested in weight watchers true food kitchens which is basically a restaurant that has 42 locations she helped start a food science startup backed by oprah katy perry and a few others that has a $1,000,000,000 evaluation and she also is a big investor in oatly then and this is finally she has a $45,000,000 estate in california a $14,000,000 one in washington in colorado she has 60 acres for 14,000,000 in hawaii she has over a 1000 acres and she has basically her net worth grew from at age 32 she got her first million at 41 340,000,000 97 at the age of 43 550,000,000 and at the age of 48 she became a billionaire so that's oprah's story super fascinating I mean she's been in the game forever it seems and I think she's what 60 something now and still killing it I didn't realize she was the ceo and like active in all this I thought she was more so like a face but I think she's actually not you know not just a face but it seems like she's like actually like a like a mogul a tycoon

Shaan Puri

Right, you know what's one thing that stands out when we talk about these? There is this flywheel that happens once you become a certain level of famous. It's almost like that graph that's about going viral—the "fuck around and find out" graph. It's basically like "fuck around and find out," but the positive version. It's like, if Oprah was like, "Here's Oprah's maple syrup," or "Here's Oprah's spoons," or "Here's Oprah's new board game," does it really matter? Her board game could do $50 million in sales, and her syrup could be the number one syrup in the country right now. It's kind of at that point where you just choose, and because so much trust and distribution has been built up. I have a friend who, this week, I can't say the details, but they went to a very famous person. They said they had a business idea. They said, "Hey, our friend has a background in a certain industry," and they suggested to the famous person, "You should be doing something in that industry. Let me walk to you, show up at your door, knock at your door, and say, 'Here's a full business plan of exactly how you would dominate in this category.'" So they go, they fly out, knock on the door. First, they don't meet the famous person; the famous person sends a manager to them.

Sam Parr

and by by the way are they are they like a list famous

Shaan Puri

they're super famous yes super super famous

Sam Parr

got it okay

Shaan Puri

A list of famous people... So they go to them, and at first, they get hit with a manager. They say, "Hey," and they're trying to look over the manager's head, like, "Hey, it's famous! I just wanted to talk to them. I'm hoping to get a word in with the famous person. Can you get out of the way?" And they're like, "No, no, no. You have to get through this wall first." They talk to the manager first and say, "Hey, look, here's my background. I've been super successful in this industry. I think you guys could crush it in this industry. Why can't I meet the famous person now and tell them the idea?" They said, "No, no, no. Tell me the idea. I'm in charge of this." I said, "Okay, here’s the idea." Then the manager says, "That's a good idea. Okay, cool." And then they get the meeting with the famous person. The whole time, they were told, "Hey, you fly in on Monday. You'll meet with the famous person sometime this week. Just hang out in the hotel. Just be here." Which is a pretty big-time move to try to pull on somebody—to not give you a time but say, "Hey, we'll hold this walkie-talkie. Would you hear me? Put your pants on, get ready. The meeting's happening, but I can't tell you what it's about."

Sam Parr

They're going to have a special calendar in Google. Everything ends in "ish." It's like, you know, "Monday-ish." It's all "ish."

Shaan Puri

Right, you're given a window, and you better be prepared during that window to strike. Okay, so I ended up getting a meeting with a famous person. The famous person comes in and explains the whole idea. The famous person likes the idea but also has a bunch of their own ideas, of course, as famous people do. So, I asked my friend later, "What happened?" The response was this: "Well, I'm pretty sure we convinced the famous person that they should do this and do this with us, and I'm pretty sure they convinced me that I should not do this with them." That was just a hilarious takeaway. I was like, "Okay, well, why?" They said, "Well, you know, they have all their own ideas. Honestly, everything they're trying to do in this space probably won't work. I think they're going about it the whole wrong way, but they'll probably end up being successful anyway." That's the crazy thing about this: their margin for error is so large. They can kind of do anything and still have it work because of their brand, their celebrity, their distribution, their trust and loyalty, and their audience is so large. You can kind of mess up 8 out of 10 things and still get it to work eventually. Whereas most startups and most businesses don't have that margin for error. So, I don't know what the big takeaway is. It's kind of a no-brainer, but if you're mega, mega famous, it's not hard at that.

Shaan Puri

To do the empire thing, because it's like, what was his name? The Moiz from Native. When he was selling his company, they were like, "You sell just deodorant. You know, you're asking for this big valuation." He goes, "Yeah, because do you know how to write the word 'Native' on a bottle of shampoo? Do you know how to write the word 'Native' on a bottle of toothpaste? Cool, that's your expansion plan." I left a lot of room for this to grow. If you can still write the word 'Native' on something, it will work. And that's how I feel about these mega celebrity brands, which is like, if you put my face on something, it's gonna work.

Sam Parr

So, let's put this in a very realistic context. You and I have that... or no, divided by 100, so we're Oprah divided by 1,000, whatever it is. But we have a very small taste of it. We also have friends, you know, like the Tim Ferrisses of the world and whoever else who have it, you know, times 10 or 20 for us, and are in this potentially $1,000,000,000 space. There are three things I think I've narrowed it down to that make this empire strategy hold me back. I imagine someone like Tim, who's a perfectionist, faces similar challenges. **Number 1** is reputational risk. Putting your name on bad products raises the question: how on earth can you actually track it all to ensure that you're not endorsing poor-quality items? Because of that, it's almost like you have to pick and choose. But then there are other people, like Richard Branson, who put Virgin on everything, and it kind of seems to have worked out for him. **Number 2** is finding people you can trust. When you have 5, 10, or even 30 different things going on, you need really trustworthy people. Even if it's your family—your brother or your cousin—people can screw you over. You have to stay on top of it and find a partner who's good enough to really have your back. Even with my accountant, I sometimes wonder, "Is this person actually thinking of me? How are they incentivized? Who's making the right decision?" That's actually exhausting and quite hard. **The final thing** is whether they want the headache of it all. Take Joe Rogan, for example. He's just like, "No, forget this! I'm on my island here. I have what I need. I don't want to put my name on anything. Screw that! I don't need anything, and I want to keep things small and tight." So, those are kind of the three things I think prevent empires from being built like this.

Shaan Puri

Yeah, I think that's true. So, say that... say the first one again. What was the first one? Do you remember?

Sam Parr

reputational risk having people that you can trust and then just like not wanting more headache

Shaan Puri

And here's the counter to each: **Reputational risk** - putting your name on crap products. Have you drank Prime?

Sam Parr

once I tried it it's fine

Shaan Puri

It's fine. It's also the fastest growing drink in the country right now. I think that the counter to that is, yes, you can't put it on a crap product or do something that would hurt people. There's nothing on the sort of terrible end of the register, but there's a lot of leeway between the best product in the market and "it's fine." You just gotta fall somewhere in there, right? It's like you're playing golf, and the fairway is so wide. You really gotta screw it up if you hit it out of bounds. That's how I feel with these products. Is Kylie's lip product the best product on the market? I have no idea. For most of these products, I can't tell you if Conor McGregor's whiskey or The Rock's tequila is anything better than fine. There might just be...

Sam Parr

you're saying their hedge there's gotta be a threshold there's a threshold and

Shaan Puri

The threshold is pretty goddamn low, so I think the reputational risk is a little bit less than what I think a lot of people would worry about. The rest is true; it can become a headache, and you do have to find competent people to run them. The good thing is, when you have that brand, it's like Prime. You know, Prime didn't start by Logan Paul and KSI saying, "Let's create a drink. Let's go to the flavor house and create a formulation." There were some entrepreneurs who approached them and said, "We do this. We've done this at medium scale with you guys. We could go super scaled. We will take care of everything. You guys take the cut; you guys help us with the promotion. But look, we come with this track record." I think that's what happens for most of these celebrities. They're approached by people with track records. Like even the example I was just giving, somebody with a track record came and said, "I know this industry. I've done this before with your brand and your distribution. We could do this again in a big way." I think those opportunities just come knocking at your door. So it's not even like, "Where do I go find somebody great?" It's like, "Can I filter? Can I just recognize great when it shows up at my door?" That is really the question for most of these people.

Sam Parr

Do you think you would enjoy that type of fame, like Chip and Joanna?

Shaan Puri

No, not only would I not enjoy it from a "Oh, I don't want to get bothered when I'm out and about with my kids and stuff like that" perspective, but more than that, I don't enjoy what it takes to get there. And that's actually the most important question in business. I was talking to Ben Levy about this the other day; we're talking about business ideas.

Sam Parr

Earlier, I asked you this a while ago and you said, "There's a price to pay. I ain't willing to pay it."

Shaan Puri

Yeah, exactly. Know the price and then decide if you're going to pay it. When we were talking about business ideas, it was like, "Oh, do we like this idea or this idea?" The easy thing to do, I think everybody gets this wrong, is like, "I love basketball, so I want to do a basketball-based idea," or "I'm really passionate about helping people, so I'm going to do this healthcare startup," whatever it may be. They think that their enjoyment of the thing is going to be based on the product or category that they're in. But in reality, most of the time you spend when you're an entrepreneur is trying to grow or sell. It's trying to get more customers and grow the actual business. So you're not playing basketball. Your day-to-day experience is actually about selling and trying to grow. What ends up happening is that some ways are more enjoyable or suit you better than others. For some people, they love Facebook ads or they love SEO. For some people, they love phone calls, and for some people, they love high-level business deals—enterprise sales where you're nurturing a long relationship for a long time.

Shaan Puri

Of time and the big mistake people make is they think oh I'm creating a basketball related startup what they don't realize is that the only way for that business to grow is through enterprise sales and they hate enterprise sales or they're unwilling to go and sell to these facility managers of nba stadiums or they're unwilling to sell to blah blah blah and they think they're in the basketball business but they're in the enterprise sales business because 90% of their day to day work and their their the challenge that they're faced with and the the the stuff they have to do the whether they're selling basketballs or ping pong balls or books it doesn't matter it's the the sales channel the sales process is where you're gonna spend most of your time so you gotta figure out which sales process do I like the most or at least tolerate the best and then find a business that uses that sales process right I think that is like a I wish somebody had told me that earlier because I got tripped up with this for many many years and when I look back I'm like oh I just really like growing things through facebook ads it's like to me it's way better than these other ones and so like so I have a a list I'm like my favorite sales channel is just mention it on the podcast it couldn't be anything easier than that like if I could just tell people what I think about this product and then they go buy it because they already trust me and they like me and we have enough listeners to this product to this podcast that is the number one easiest sales channel most pleasurable so if I can think of a business that works in that fantastic number 2 for me is facebook ads why because I I don't have to talk to anybody I sit behind the computer I set up the budget and when it works I just scale it up with the push of a button I don't have to hire more salespeople I don't have to like go do something new you can take one image that works or one video one ten second video that works in facebook ads and put 1,000,000 of dollars of spend behind it and make multiple millions more off that ad I love that I love that model I like that I can look at the dashboard see a number and know what to do I yes that's like my number 2 and my number 3 is cold emails because I'm good at cold emailing and it's kind of a pain in the ass but I've done it before I can train people to do that of how to cold email in order to generate customers those are my 3 favorites everything else I don't like as much and so when I think of an idea it's gotta fall in that top 3

Sam Parr

Have you... So we had, I guess technically, the hustle kinda was enterprise sales. I mean, we had 6-figure deals, maybe once or twice we had 7-figure deals, and that's like a long process. I wasn't allowed to go to those meetings because... like, I remember I had to go and buy brown shoes and tight jeans and tuck my shirt in in a certain way. I was like, "Dude, like, I'm Todd, nice to meet you." It wasn't for me.

Shaan Puri

Got all the details wrong. Just a tank top tucked in, some khakis which are tucked into some brown shoes. Yeah, yeah, a light tunnel you've created when you're tucking in.

Sam Parr

right before the meeting they're like pss sam the the buttons are supposed to be in the front

Shaan Puri

like there's a breakaway

Sam Parr

Yeah, so I was learning as I went. As the owner of a company that had enterprise sales, it was awesome because I didn't realize there was this amazing thing that I learned: sales teams can create demand. So, even if your product is great, or even if your product is okay, if you have a good sales team, you can truly create demand. I didn't understand that until like year two or three of having a team like this. I was like, "Oh my God, this is how the world works." Most big companies have a certain amount of budget they have to spend on something. If you just get in with them, wine and dine them, and they like you, half the time the product doesn't even matter. They just have to spend it; otherwise, next year they won't have the same budget. If they don't have the same budget, they don't have a job. You can like that or not like it. Frankly, I don't love that—that's like the truth. But if you can make it work, it's pretty amazing. I learned that the hard way while running a company like this.

Shaan Puri

And if you don't know which one you like, your best bet is to get exposure to a bunch of them. So go try your hand and do like a 6-month rotation where you're basically like, "Okay, how do I do this enterprise sales thing? How do I do cold calling? How do I do Google Ads? How do I do these different things?" Figure out which one of these appeals to you because once you do that, then you can kind of pick and choose. I know most people, and I would think you would find this to be true, most successful people we know, they don't really hop around sales channels that much. It's like, "No, if they're good at..."

Sam Parr

find one thing and and you and you kill it

Shaan Puri

Yeah, they... Oh, you're good at SEO? They just do SEO four different times in 4 different flavors. Oh, you're good at Facebook ads? You do Facebook ads for one business, then another business, then another business. If you're good at enterprise sales, you just figure out, you know, which businesses to plug into that over time. They kind of make a career out of really understanding one growth process because being a master at any growth thing is super, super valuable. [Speaker changes topic] I can't find this client info.

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Shaan Puri

do you

Sam Parr

Do you want to talk about Hustle GPT-3, or do you want to go to another topic?

Shaan Puri

Which, let's do some quicker ones. I feel like we did a long, winded thing. So, I have a couple quick ones.

Sam Parr

tell me okay

Shaan Puri

So, I'm going to give you my two bad dating ideas. By the way, I'd like to put another drunk idea on the books, just to put that out there. This would have been in my drunk ideas thing, but we don't have it scheduled, so I'm just going to do it sober. **Two bad dating ideas:** **Number 1:** Do you watch this TV show, *Love Is Blind*?

Sam Parr

sarah does so it's on my tv all the time

Shaan Puri

okay good so you know the premise

Sam Parr

And my wife and I have like the exact same TV stuff. For the listener, Sean and Sarah are texting about "The Bachelor" or "The Bachelorette," whatever it's called. Yeah, or no, what do you guys talk about? The challenge?

Shaan Puri

The challenge, but also these other shows... So "Love Is Blind" is this like sensation show on Netflix, which is basically: You get a bunch of single people together. They're in these rooms where they can't see each other, so you kind of speed date. You're dating other people, but you never get to see them. So you're only supposed to fall in love with their personality. Then, after you choose who you like the best based on their personality, you get to see them and you're going to see what happens.

Sam Parr

so and don't you like get married at the end

Shaan Puri

Yeah, well, of course, to make any great story you need stakes. And so they raise the stakes by saying you don't just get to pick, say, "Oh, I like Sam the best, I want to see him." Now it's like, in order to see him, he must get engaged blind and get married 4 weeks later. So that's how they make it [interesting] in a TV show, but...

Sam Parr

but some people walk walk on the altar

Shaan Puri

Yeah, yeah. Decide at the altar. A lot of people, when they see the other person, they're like, "Oh hey, it's so good to see you!" But they're just thinking, "Oh man... I imagined something different, and now I'm stuck with you." And now they look like an asshole because they fell in love with the person's personality and fell out of love with their face. But they can't say that, so they have to find some other excuse.

Sam Parr

One guy on the show was like, they're trying to get an idea of how they look, so they go... So I'm pretty. The guy was like, "I only weigh 150 pounds. Could I give you a piggyback ride?" No.

Shaan Puri

No, he goes, and it was so smooth the way he did it. By smooth, I mean terrible. He goes, "I love to go to music festivals." She's like, "Me too." He goes, "At music festivals, you know, I usually put my girlfriend up on my shoulders. Do you think I'd be able to do that with you?" He's like, "Did she catch it?" Yeah, she was like, "No, that's my worst nightmare, is a guy struggling to lift my body weight." Oh, and so she was just like, "What the hell?" But like, what size?

Sam Parr

of rowboat do we need

Shaan Puri

On this season, there's one guy. They fell in love, and then they meet. He's not bad looking or whatever, but he does really intense eye contact. The guy doesn't blink, and she's like, "You could have never known this from behind the wall." So she's like, "How come you're not looking away?" And he's like, "What do you mean? I am blinking." She's like, "No, please look away. It's so uncomfortable to watch." Anyways, great show! I think somebody should take this show on the road, literally. I think somebody should do a... well, I think the show, but if not the show, then somebody should spin this off and do a "Love Is Blind" tour where you go city to city, and people pay to be a part of the experiment. So people pay to actually do the show themselves. I also think you should do a podcast version of "Love Is Blind" because a podcast is audio only, so it's already no visual. You could have two people talking, and you could sort of edit and cut this together to make a pod version of "Love Is Blind." I think people could take this concept of this dating show, or it could be other dating shows too, and make a tour out of it. Make a show out of it where it's going from city to city, and people get to participate almost like "American Ninja Warrior." Some people get to participate, and other people get to watch the show going down. I think these things would generate a lot of money ticket-wise because Netflix has done the hard work of educating the market. Once you get that education in the market, now somebody should go to them and get the license. Like we talked about this with kids' cartoons.

Sam Parr

or they can just call it like love with poor eyesight

Shaan Puri

what or fuzzy love

Sam Parr

yeah I forgot my glasses love

Shaan Puri

so so like people did this with the cartoons

Sam Parr

that was a that was a 3 out of 3

Shaan Puri

Yeah, it's okay. I gave you a laugh to try to, you know, smooth it over. But like kids' cartoons, like Blippi or CoComelon, there are these companies that go and they license the rights to create the CoComelon live tour or the Blippi live tour. I've gone to these, and I did a segment on the pod about these. These things make **$1,000,000** a year. Yeah, well, every parent loves it.

Sam Parr

it's like where can

Shaan Puri

You can't really... there's not many places you could take a tiny kid that's kid-friendly, but this is perfect because they already love these cartoons on YouTube. So I'm willing to pay $50 a ticket times 4, so I pay $200. Then I buy the merch, then I buy the snacks because of course my kids want snacks. And you know, we go there and we've dropped $400-$500 by the end of it, or something like that. These shows can make a lot of money, and so I think somebody could do this with other television shows, including the dating shows.

Sam Parr

That's not a bad idea at all. Well, that's a great idea! I'm a skilled... skilled pitch... pitch... pitch... something worse.

Shaan Puri

Yeah, you should have seen an average person try to explain that idea. You would have laughed about the room. Okay, here's my second...

Sam Parr

love is blind on tour even that sounds alright

Shaan Puri

So, my second bad dating idea. Okay, so you've heard about this dating app, Raya. You know about this app?

Sam Parr

It's basically a dating app originally for famous people, but now it's like dating apps for people who are verified on Instagram or something.

Shaan Puri

Yeah, I don't even really understand it. I think somebody needs to come over the top on Raya and make an even more elite dating app. So I'm calling it "Daddy." Here's what "Daddy" is. So, "Daddy" or "Zaddy"—you know, we're debating it internally. For a woman to be on "Daddy," she has to basically audition or apply. We're only accepting the top 1% of eligible women. So, this means beautiful, but not just beautiful; smart, but not just smart. You have to be living in a big city so that you're available to be reached and dated. We're talking about the top 1%—maybe even 0.1% of applicants get in. It's more elite than Harvard. On the guy side, you have to pay $25,000 a year to be on the app. So that's the app idea: 5,000 men. If you can get 5,000 men who have the money to drop $25,000 on their dating app, they get access to this elite pool of women who want access to this rich group of men. And it is what it is. That's our slogan: "It is what it is." Is it right? No, but it is what it is. So, it is what it is—rich guys with beautiful, smart women. The business model is if we can get 5,000 guys to pay us this amount, that's a $100 million a year business. Does that sound like something you might be interested in?

Sam Parr

So when I was studying for Hampton to launch, I was curious about communities. There's a bunch of... A lot of people were like, "You should charge like $100 a year." The reason being is there's a bunch of communities out there where the whole thing of making it elite and community is just: can you pay the money?

Shaan Puri

yes

Sam Parr

And I was thinking about that, and I'm like, first, the audacity! And second, if you can get past my first question, "How dare you?" Who are you? But if you can get past that, how amazing is that? Your whole business is just, if you could pay it, you're probably good. So we'll be happy to be that middleman and check it out. There's this app called **The League**. Do you know what The League is? Mmm... it's a dating app. It started when we were in San Francisco by this woman named **Amanda Bradford**, who I'm friends with here in Austin. She sold it recently to what's the big company? **IAC**, who owns like Match and Tinder. When Amanda was getting started, The League kind of took off, and so I don't... you probably don't know this.

Shaan Puri

it was like ivy league it was the premise right it was like only it was

Sam Parr

Like Ivy League, but then one day she was like, "How hard can I push this?" And so right now, The League costs... I believe it's either $4.99 or $9.99. So it's either $4.99 or $9.99, it's one of those two. The reason being is that's the highest price per month that you can charge on Apple's App Store.

Shaan Puri

it's 399 per sorry yeah $399 per month

Sam Parr

So yeah, it's the highest that you could possibly charge and she goes, "Screw it, that's what it's going to cost to get premium features." And people... I think our team was like, "This is crazy! We can't do this, no one will do this!" But they crushed it. IAC came to her and they're like, "We want to buy you because how on earth are you able to charge this?" And I imagine in her head she was like, "Well, it was actually pretty easy. I just added an extra 9 at the end."

Shaan Puri

actually you're right 9

Sam Parr

down 9

Shaan Puri

The highest tier is called **Investor**. It was **Member** $299, **Owner** $399, and **Investor** $999.99.

Sam Parr

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like there's an episode in *South Park* where they come up with this new MBA. They're like, "Look, I don't make up the rules; I just think them up and write them down. You can't argue with me; I didn't make up the rules." And it's like, "Well, how'd you increase pricing so much?" They say, "Well, I just clicked that button 9, and we made it instead of $999, we made it $900, or instead of $99.99, it was $999." So anyway, it's killed it. I actually think that there are a lot of interesting opportunities in the market where you can just charge way more. It feels very weird, I agree, but that's the business model.

Shaan Puri

And actually, now that I think about it, $25,000 a year was complete small boy stuff. I apologize to the entire audience; this needs to be $100 a year. This has to be $100 a year. And guess what? We only need 1,000 members. Now we only need 1,000 guys who are willing to drop $100 in order to get access to the most. In fact, you know what? We're going to take a portion of that money and we're going to pay some women to be on this app. We're going to say, "Look, you are so great. You are casted onto this, and you are going to be paid to be a part of this network." Because we want to blur the lines between prostitution and legal dating. Oh my God, it is what it is, as we say.

Sam Parr

god bless you maybe this will work but yeah good luck

Shaan Puri

But I think there needs to be more apps that do this. They should go over the top with it, like...

Sam Parr

I agree

Shaan Puri

Basically, find the theoretical max of what the market will bear or what people actually want to do. Like, what is the actual behavior people want and what are they willing to do? It's usually more than you think or more than sounds reasonable. Ask yourself: "What if you just took an unreasonable approach to the same thing? What would you do differently?" It's a question you can ask about really any business. There's these guys that created this thing called the **Unreasonable Institute** back in the day, and I loved it.

Sam Parr

is that real yeah

Shaan Puri

It was a great idea. It was called the **Unreasonable Institute**, and I just love the name because I love the entire premise, which was: What good has come from just taking a reasonable approach to something? If you're trying to make any big shit happen, if you're trying to do anything, change the way anything works... you know, like create a new system or improve something or innovate in a way, by definition you're going to do something slightly unreasonable. And so...

Sam Parr

is this called the unreasonable group

Shaan Puri

Yeah, it was called the **Unreasonable Institute**. Then they had the **Unreasonable Tour**, where they got a cruise ship and went into international waters. They did a bunch of these. Now, it's probably called something else. This was like 10+ years ago, so... yep.

Sam Parr

that's so funny

Shaan Puri

it's probably changed

Sam Parr

Well, there's a thing called **Unreasonable Group**, and it's divided into two parts: 1. The Unreasonable Collective: An international community of sophisticated investors. We pool capital as a community and co-invest in world-class [companies]. 2. The Unreasonable Institute: A fast-track program to give altruistic entrepreneurs skills and funding to affect large-scale change.

Shaan Puri

yeah I think that's the one

Sam Parr

sounds maybe a little

Shaan Puri

yeah

Sam Parr

The first one maybe sounds cooler though. But that's cool, I like that name. Speaking of unreasonable, do you want to wrap this up by talking about one thing Elon Musk...?

Shaan Puri

okay

Sam Parr

did you see what he did so you see the twitter thing

Shaan Puri

well which which twitter thing I feel like every day there's a elon musk twitter thing

Sam Parr

yeah that's the where he blurred out the w

Shaan Puri

oh yeah

Sam Parr

oh okay this is news no no I see you

Shaan Puri

I saw you I saw this this is explain this this is dumb

Sam Parr

There's this thing in the UFC called "champ champ" status. Basically, the UFC has weight divisions, and every once in a while, someone like Conor McGregor comes along and achieves greatness. They earn what's called "champ champ" status, meaning they are the champion in one weight division and then, while holding that belt, they gain a few pounds, go up, and win another belt. It's unheard of, in my opinion. Elon is the champ champ. He has amazing products and is one of the best entrepreneurs out there. He's the champion, but he's also the most cringeworthy. He's the champ champ right now, and he does whatever the heck he wants. Recently, like last night, he tweeted out about a dispute with the landlord, saying he couldn't alter the sign or something like that. So, he took a piece of white paper and blurred out the "W." Now, the sign for Twitter, which is huge when you live in San Francisco—I lived a block away from it—says "Titter." It's the most cringe thing I've ever seen. Why on earth would he do that? I love a good troll, but that's not funny. It just makes people... I like trolling; I love punching up, but this is like...

Shaan Puri

this is punching yourself in the face

Sam Parr

I like making people uncomfortable this is the bad type of uncomfortable

Shaan Puri

Go to his Twitter right now. Do you see what his name is on Twitter? Because you thought that was the cringiest thing he's done in the last 48 hours. Well, he's one-upped himself.

Sam Parr

oh my god what an idiot

Shaan Puri

oh god it's what is his name right now

Sam Parr

His name right now is Harry Balls. He spells "Balls" B-O-L-Z, but it's Harry Balls. That is his name on Twitter right now.

Shaan Puri

Oh, Elon, you're so irreverent! Yeah, dude, it's these billionaire senses of humor. Like, what?

Sam Parr

just like us

Shaan Puri

I would love to see what Elon thinks about other people's reactions. He must type these in and just sit back, smirking with a smug look on his face. Just imagine, "Oh man, the internet's gonna love this." I'm super rich, but I don't take myself too seriously. Look at this!

Sam Parr

Yeah, like jeez... Next week it's gonna be like "Elon Baller 69" or something. It's just... this is the lamest thing ever, man. I don't know how... I mean, I guess, look, when it comes to extreme personalities, extreme success follows. But they don't tell you there's another end of that bell curve, and that's extreme cringe.

Shaan Puri

and that

Sam Parr

And we're experiencing that a little bit right now. I know a lot of... well, not a lot, I know a couple of billionaires. And I know a lot of wildly successful people, and they do, every once in a while, like you're like, "Oh hey man, you don't know how to hold the conversation appropriately. Let me help you out here." This is kinda what's happening with him. It just so happens that it's in front of 120-125,000,000 followers.

Shaan Puri

He has like the cringe version of Tourette's. Like, dude, just stop! He can't. He can't stop just blurting out these cringey things.

Sam Parr

Yeah, it's ridiculous. He's... I actually think that he's kind of ruining his legacy for sure here. Like, maybe 5 years ago he was *the man*, and he still is the man frankly - his accomplishments are amazing. But he's a little less of *the man* at this point. There.

Shaan Puri

was a funny just

Sam Parr

a little

Shaan Puri

Funny back and forth. Somebody tweeted out a graph of all the $1,000,000,000 companies and what industries they're in.

Sam Parr

yeah I saw that

Shaan Puri

And Paul Graham retweeted it. He says, "Oh, you know what's interesting here is like we're clearly over-indexed on software and, you know, real-world things like hardware or manufacturing. There are only a few companies in that bucket, but don't let that hold you back."

Sam Parr

don't let it don't let

Shaan Puri

It still do it... I think there's a lot of opportunity there. Elon replied and was like, "Yeah, like a complete waste." You know, he said something like it was a big waste of resources, brainpower, or talent that that was the case. Then...

Sam Parr

And the response was the biggest own I've seen in a week. It was a really good reply.

Shaan Puri

Paul Graham goes, "Yeah, can you think of anybody right now who's really talented and could be doing those things but is wasting their time on a software project?" And it's so good because obviously he's talking about Elon. It's like a perfect self-cell phone really by Elon.

Sam Parr

yeah it was pretty good

Shaan Puri

too good

Sam Parr

It was good. That was good. I'm a big fan of him, of Paul Graham. I'm still an Elon guy. I think I might get myself a Tesla, but I don't like this. It makes it hard to want to wear like a Tesla t-shirt, that's for sure. Not that he cares, but it makes it challenging to like... root for him publicly when he makes these stupid comments.

Shaan Puri

People in our comments hate when I make fun of Elon or diss Elon or Chamath or these guys because they're fans of them, which is totally fair. You can be fans of whoever you want. But I just wanted for the record, I'm out on Elon early because guess what? More and more, you're going to be out on this guy over time. I just want to plant the flag: I'm out on him early because his cringe will eventually wash away all these people, or he's going to get canceled for something. I'm telling you, it's going to happen. And I would like the record to show that I was out early.

Sam Parr

Dude, these people in our comments are crazy to me because... why can't someone do a lot of really good stuff and also some bad stuff? Like, why can't someone kick ass at a ton of different things and make a huge amount of mistakes?

Shaan Puri

totally

Sam Parr

Because whenever we talk about this, we say, "Yeah, he's the best at a bunch of different things."

Shaan Puri

He's the greatest entrepreneur of, I don't know, the last 30 or 50 years. That is true. Also true, he's pretty cringe and corny, and disingenuous about some things, right? That is also true.

Sam Parr

Yeah, it's like I can love Michael Jackson's music and also not love what he did, you know? Like both can exist. I can like Chick-fil-A chicken and also not stand by what they... what they stand for. You know, both can be true. And I can't stand that with the commenters on our stuff, but let's... we're gonna get a reaction on this. I'm eager to see what it is. But anyway, that's an action-packed pod, I think.