2 Trends Hidden in Plain Sight (+ $1M ideas)
Flea Markets, True Crime, and Untapped Riches - March 14, 2025 (19 days ago) • 52:37
Transcript:
| Start Time | Speaker | Text |
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Sam Parr | Screw Nick Hubert talking about RV parks and storage units. We're going to be talking about flea markets. That's what I think is going to happen.
I want to talk to you about a topic, and I think this is a topic that’s my passion. I'm bringing it up because, **a)** I think it's a trend, and that's what we're about, and **b)** I have a prediction here. I think it’s going to be interesting in the next five or ten years.
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Shaan Puri | Sweaters, denim, tobacco.
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Sam Parr | Yeah, you're in the ballpark.
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Shaan Puri | Media, yeah. | |
Sam Parr | We're in the zip code. We're definitely in the industry. We're in the zip code.
So, years ago, this doesn't matter to you because you're not from the South, but if you're above the age of 30, a lot of people here probably remember this TV show, *American Pickers*. Did you ever even watch that show?
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Shaan Puri | Never watched it. | |
Sam Parr | Okay, two guys who go and buy junk, and they tell the story of the junk. And then we would...
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Shaan Puri | From storage containers? Or that's a different show.
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Sam Parr | That's a different show, but again, it's in the same ballpark. Basically, they would drive around the South, knock on old people's homes, and say, "Can I come and look in your barn?" They would find old, cool stuff, tell the story of it, clean it up just a little bit, and bring it back to the store where I worked. We would resell it. That's basically it; that's all it is.
We would have lines out the door because at the time this show was airing, David Letterman was number one, and then American Pickers was number two in terms of the most-watched shows on TV. There'd be days where we would sell, I'm not exaggerating, a hundred thousand dollars in American Pickers t-shirts because all these guys would come in and want to buy anything that was American Pickers related.
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Shaan Puri | How much revenue do you think that store did overall?
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Sam Parr | I would imagine $10,000,000 for one location.
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Shaan Puri | One location.
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Sam Parr | Yeah, big store.
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Shaan Puri | Or just like a normal shop.
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Sam Parr | It was so small that we had a script to let people know. People would come in and be so disappointed at how small it was because they would think it was like this big. The cameras would look huge, and that sounds familiar to my life. | |
Shaan Puri | I had a script.
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Sam Parr | So, it was like a tidy store, but we killed it. I experienced something that...
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Shaan Puri | But the thing was, is that... | |
Sam Parr | It was all like hillbillies. It was like redneck hillbillies from Alabama. For some reason, the picking culture is all like hillbillies in rural Alabama. | |
Shaan Puri | I like how you said, "For some reason, I think..." | |
Sam Parr | I don't know... because they like old stuff or they like to reuse things. I don't know, it's just part of the culture.
But this weekend, I experienced something that has totally changed my worldview on this topic. There's this thing called Al Fargo's Marketplace, and I went to it the other day.
So the story is basically about these four guys who look like they're 24 years old. They started organizing this flea market in New York City, and they host it at this place called Newhouse, which is like the hipper version of WeWork.
It's just this weird combination of urban New York stuff but with flea markets, which are historically associated with older people and Southern heritage. It's not like a New York cool kid thing... but it is now, though.
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Shaan Puri | Alright, can I just describe what I'm seeing?
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Sam Parr | So, describe what you see and who you see.
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Shaan Puri | Every photo looks like it's taken with a Polaroid, even though we have like 4K cameras. I mean, the style is eclectic. There's a DJ. It looks like, "Is this a party in a Goodwill shop? Is that what's happening?"
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Sam Parr | Dude, it's a high-end vintage flea market and it was packed. I'm 35, and I was the oldest person there. There was a lot of weird stuff going on, and they were all wearing suits and ties—24-year-old single guys. I went there with my daughter, and it was just me and her. I felt like I was the oldest person there; no one had children.
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Shaan Puri | You took your daughter to this.
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Sam Parr | We were just hanging out for the day, and I was like, "Let's go to the fucking flea market."
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Shaan Puri | It was like Adam Sandler in *Big Daddy*. | |
Sam Parr | Yeah, dude, we wore matching sweaters. We were the hit! We made the Instagram of these guys.
But they built this flea market, and it was packed. It was like... I was regretting bringing her because I was like, "Dude, this is way too packed, and I can't even get around." So we didn't even stay for that long.
But it kind of got me thinking about flea markets because I think that, like, have you noticed that, by the way, that millennial hipsters have just disappeared? They're just gone. They're no longer a thing anymore. Hipsters... I've just like, where'd they go?
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Shaan Puri | Do you have a theory? These are the... | |
Sam Parr | New hipsters are young people who wear nice clothing, like this, and are into vintage. This is the new version.
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Shaan Puri | Doing this, there's like a branding genius. Look at these posters! It's just so well done.
How do you turn this? It just shows you can make anything; anything can be done.
Anyway, you can make a sandwich gourmet, you can make a sandwich terrible. You can make a flea market cool, and you can make a cool thing feel like a flea market.
This is all so well executed as far as the branding goes. It's unbelievable! This thing, the Instagram, looks like a magazine. It's unbelievable. | |
Sam Parr | Alright, my friend. A lot of you guys who listen to the show do so because you want to start a company, but you're not sure what idea to choose, or you may not even have an idea. You enjoy our podcast, *My First Million*, because we've done a lot of the work for you in researching various business ideas.
Well, my friends, we've made life a lot easier for you because HubSpot has put together an entire list of resources that you can use to find a market opportunity and validate your next business idea. So, if you're looking for a market size calculator, tools to identify market trends, or a huge list of ideas to get started, there's a link below. Click it, and you can have access to the whole thing—it's completely free.
Now, back to the show. Here's the thing: this isn't just about these guys. Go to Instagram; if you're listening, it's called *El Fargo's Marketplace*. Look at the photos of whoever you see—that's a stylish young man. Click their profile and their tag. Tons of them have 200,000 to 300,000 followers. These are young 23-year-old guys showing off their outfits, and the engagement on these Instagram handles is insane.
So, go to the handle: @denny623.
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Shaan Puri | Dude, what a big day for Denny! He had no idea this was going to happen for him.
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Sam Parr | So, look at Denny.
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Shaan Puri | Alright, Denny. Wow, cowboy hat flare! He's wearing a Chris Sacca shirt, but the rest is fantastic.
Alright, 12,000 followers. He's a digital creator, a menswear blogger, and a content creator since '08. Oh my god, he's been in the game! He's a creative director.
Is this a... what flag is this? Is this the Philippines? What is that?
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Sam Parr | I think it's Puerto Rican, but I bought this sweater from Denny. Denny was a vendor at El Fargo's. This sweater... | |
Shaan Puri | That sweater from there. | |
Sam Parr | I bought it from Boba because I want to be part of this trend. Here, amongst young people, this is a huge hit. If you click around on these guys' Instagram, you know there's this joke about whatever the Silicon Valley nerds are doing in five or ten years is going to be mainstream. This is the New York cool kid thing. This is like walking around Soho and seeing what people are wearing. This is it, and it's happening right now. I have two ways I think this is going to be a big business.
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Shaan Puri | And wait, wait. Is your take that it's a flea market? Because if I understand you correctly, you went to this cool flea market. Well, I can't even call it a flea market; you went to a party.
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Sam Parr | No, it was a flea market.
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Shaan Puri | Okay, it was mostly a party. It happened to have some good [elements]. | |
Sam Parr | It was a flea market with a DJ. You took your daughter.
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Shaan Puri | It's hilarious you're saying flea markets are a bigger deal than most people realize, especially people like us who live on a computer.
Are you saying there's an opportunity here? Are you saying somebody's going to build the "Crumble Cookie" of flea markets? What's going to happen?
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Sam Parr | I think two things are going to happen.
First, I believe there's a massive **private equity opportunity** here. I think flea markets could potentially be the new RV parks, and you could purchase them at a real estate valuation.
Second, I also think there's a huge amount of male, well, female too, but primarily male fashion influencers. That's a hot trend. I've spoken to about 10 or 20 of them, and they're all **struggling financially**. All of them are like, "I wish I could just pay my rent with this."
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Shaan Puri | Right, right. | |
Sam Parr | I think this business is a beautiful business. These El Fargo Marketplace guys are a really good example of how it's done well. I think that they're probably not savvy when it comes to business; they're more like artists. There's something really interesting here. So...
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Shaan Puri | You're saying this Rose Bowl Flea Market has **20,000 visitors** and **2,500 vendors** per month.
Alright, so basically, based on that, **20,000 visitors** paying **$12** to enter and the vendors paying **$150** to be there, they're making **$600** per flea market, which happens **once a month**.
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Sam Parr | Once a month, but you're forgetting so many other things, like table rentals, chair rentals, and things like that.
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Shaan Puri | So, about $7 to $8 million in revenue you see from this one flea market, basically.
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Sam Parr | I think it's even more. I also think the other point I'm going to make is that it's pretty... like, it's obviously very old.
So there's this one called the Brimfield Antique Show. Do me a favor and go to their website.
Brimfield is a flea market that gets a million people a year coming to this festival, which is huge, right? That's like, we're talking Coachella size stuff. Scroll to the very bottom.
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Shaan Puri | That's true.
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Sam Parr | So, if you want to contact someone...
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Sam Parr | You go to the go. | |
Sam Parr | To the very bottom and look at where it says, "Tell me what it says about Jody."
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Shaan Puri | Oh, Jody, you can reach her at [email protected]. Just send her a note.
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Sam Parr | If you want to learn, this is an event with 1,000,000 customers. If you want to learn more about it, email [email protected]. That's what it says at the very bottom.
Go to Jody's LinkedIn. I looked her up on LinkedIn. Can you click Jody's LinkedIn? Her name is Jody Young. She is the owner of this business with 1,000,000 customers. Jody looks lovely; she seems like a nice woman. However, Jody doesn't exactly look like what I think is going to be a younger generation of people who are interested in this topic.
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Shaan Puri | So, you're saying the owner of this business, these types of businesses, is going to look different in ten years?
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Sam Parr | And I would say that they're probably not the most...
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Shaan Puri | **Choose your words wisely. Ants are listening.**
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Sam Parr | They're probably not the most uptight operators. That's what I would say. They're probably very passionate about this.
Sometimes, when you're passionate, maybe you're leaving dollars on the table. That's what I'm saying.
I believe that in the next couple of years, screw Nick Schubert talking about RV parks and storage units. We're going to be talking about flea markets. That's what I think is going to happen. | |
Shaan Puri | Alright, bold prediction! I really like this, by the way. This is a **Sampar special**—let's give a round of applause for the **Sampar special**!
Cool find on the trend. Cool find on the underrated business: flea markets. How big they are! Wow, they're kind of stunning in terms of the visitors that they get.
I like how you wrote at the bottom, "An AI ain't gonna mess with this." Yeah, this is part of the thesis. This is a good private equity roll-up thesis by you. Good job!
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Sam Parr | Yeah, and it's... thank you. Thank you for that condescending, patronizing "good job" for you. You like that, man?
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Shaan Puri | Good job by you! That's a real compliment.
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Sam Parr | Amongst young people, dude, they buy a huge amount of vintage clothing. Something like... I've seen some crazy stat where it was something like 80% of Gen Z-ers regularly shop for secondhand clothing.
So you have companies like Depop. Have you heard of Depop, Sean?
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Shaan Puri | Yeah, it's like a secondhand marketplace... a secondhand app.
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Sam Parr | Dude, they have 80,000,000 users. Then there's Poshmark, and then there's Grailed, and then there's like 10 other ones. These young people are buying vintage and secondhand clothing at surprisingly high rates.
Have you ever seen thrift hauls on TikTok? Have you seen that?
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Shaan Puri | I've seen a lot of things on TikTok. I've seen a lot of things, so that's one of them. I've definitely seen that.
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Sam Parr | It's a huge thing. If you type in "thrift hauls" on TikTok, I follow so many of these people on Instagram. It's a really common trend.
So my whole point is that young people are buying this stuff up, man. They're buying this secondhand clothing like crazy. | |
Shaan Puri | I'm just looking up Goodwill's numbers. So, Goodwill's revenues over the last ten years start at **$4.8 billion**. Then it goes to **$5.7 billion**, **$5.9 billion**, **$6.1 billion**, **$6.3 billion**, and **$7 billion**. The pandemic causes it to go back down to **$5.5 billion**, then it goes to **$7.5 billion**, and finally **$8 billion**.
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Shaan Puri | 2 billion and 9 million projected for this year or for the last year.
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Sam Parr | And if you go to, what's it called? Goodwill Finds. So, goodwillfinds.com, they have their own online marketplace where they auction off a handful of the nicer things that Goodwill collects. People love it! I've bought a couple of things from there. I think Ari said she'd buy stuff from there too. It's getting really popular.
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Shaan Puri | I want to make sure I get this down for the record. What are you saying is something someone could do or should do?
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Sam Parr | So, what I'm saying is that flea markets are a recession-proof business in a highly fragmented industry. They last for many, many decades and are hard to disrupt once they work well.
Also, young people are buying vintage clothing and are into flea markets more than other generations.
What I am suggesting is that I think there's a roll-up opportunity. If I were to pursue this, I would work with some of these broke but passionate fashion influencers. I believe I could create, if that were my thing, a really awesome flea market business.
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Shaan Puri | Can I give you one other random idea?
So, I used to live in Indonesia, and in Indonesia, they do this thing that I've never really seen here, but I really liked it.
When you go into a food court, it's different from what you experience in America. In America, you go to a mall, and there's a food court. The business model is that you walk in, and there's nobody there to serve you. You just go and pick: do I want a slice from Sbarro? Do I want a sandwich? Do I want some fried chicken? What do I want?
You go, you buy your one thing, and then you go sit down. Right? Did I capture it accurately?
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Sam Parr | Yeah, and it's like there's a guy handing out samples. I'm going to try all the samples, and we're going to sit in kind of a nasty chair and just eat this crap.
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Shaan Puri | So, in Indonesia, the malls in general are a lot better. But the one thing that they do for their food court is a little bit different. When you walk in, they give you a wristband, almost like it's Coachella or something like that.
This wristband is basically your way to buy anything you want. The way they designed the flow is almost like an IKEA. You walk around, and every booth has cool stuff. It's not super low-quality food; it's still obviously faster, but everything is branded pretty well. The food and the people who are working there feel a little more upscale.
You start with an empty tray and just keep adding different little plates from the various vendors that you want to try something from. At each one, you just tap your wristband so that the system knows what you've picked up. It doesn't feel like you're spending money; it feels like you're just opening a door. You hand over your key and get your thing.
This is amazing! You sit down, eat, and at the end, when you leave, you put your tray down and scan your badge. They tell you the damage, and you... | |
Sam Parr | That's awesome! Pay for it on the way out.
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Shaan Puri | I've always thought that American food courts should steal this model. You spend way more, and it's just a more fun experience. Paying at the end, once you've already had the little amusement park of food type of thing, is pretty cool.
I wonder if somebody could do a similar thing with thrift or flea markets. The thing I'm imagining here is like, remember Spartan Race or Tough Mudder? They turned something that seemed like work and kind of hard into something that was fun, a bit of an Instagram opportunity, and almost like...
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Sam Parr | They turned like an individual rate. Like when you race, you're by yourself. You're into a group fun activity.
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Shaan Puri | Exactly! So, a social fun event that you're planning is basically a party. I think you could do the same thing with a flea market.
What you could do is arrange it, whether it's a race or a long path. If you do the wristband thing, as soon as you join, you get 10 tickets, 20 tickets, or 30 tickets—whatever it is. Now, you just have tickets you have to spend.
Instead of the goodwill problem, where you go and think, "Should I get this? Should I not?" you make a commitment upfront. You say, "I'm going to find 10 things here." Then, it's about finding the most fun 10 things you can at the event. You go and collect, filling up your card. You can always get more tickets as you go.
By the end, you walk out with a new outfit! You would literally have a photo at the start and a photo at the end because you put it on. You basically do a makeover on a Saturday afternoon with your friends, and you all end up with this fun photo at the end of you guys dressed up.
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Sam Parr | That's fantastic.
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Shaan Puri | Is that not a great experience?
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Sam Parr | It's a fantastic experience. For some reason, scanning things at my wrist is more fun than pulling out my credit card. Do you remember that? Didn't you invest in a company that was creating software so Patagonia could sell secondhand coats or something?
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Shaan Puri | I didn't end up getting to invest in it. I really wanted to. It's called...
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Sam Parr | I think North Face uses it because it's doing well. I almost bought a North Face coat, and they call it "reworked," where you mail in your old coat and you get some type of credit. Then they repair it, but it kind of looks funky and cool, and guys like me could buy it.
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Shaan Puri | Yeah, I think the term for this movement is **recommerce**. So, you have e-commerce, but then you have recommerce, which is when you sell that secondhand item again.
The website was called **Treat** (T-R-E-E-T). I think they're doing well, by the way. They've got a bunch of big brands.
What they were doing was saying, "Hey, a lot of people are already reselling your items on these other platforms, Facebook groups, and wherever." They actually sell sometimes at a markup or sometimes at a slight discount, but they're used goods.
Why not just make a central place on your website for people to buy already loved items? Customers could upload their items, and you'd basically create your own little marketplace on your website. They power it with the software, and when somebody buys it, they don't have to wait for a buyer.
They could just put it on the platform and get store credit for it when someone buys it. So, you're giving store credit, which is going to get them to come back, and the other person is getting the item they were going to buy anyway off-platform. It makes a lot of sense.
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Sam Parr | Yeah, I almost bought something the other day from someone using their software, but they didn't have my size.
So, that's my big pitch on flea markets. I think... oh, and by the way, there are one or two PE guys in the space doing this. I think there's like unitedfleamarkets.com or something like that.
But I think you're going to see more. So, this is my prediction and also my opportunity spiel.
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Shaan Puri | Okay, I like that you made a prediction because the next thing I'm going to tell you about is a giant "I told you so." But nobody likes hearing "I told you so." In fact, there was a great tweet that went viral over the last week. This guy, Matt Lasky, tweeted this out: "My wife just taught me the professional way to say 'I told you so.'"
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Sam Parr | I saw that. It's so funny.
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Shaan Puri | You say this was identified early on as a likely outcome? Yeah, I'm going to be using this a lot. So let me just say that Sam and I identified this early as a likely outcome.
What I'm talking about is true crime podcasts. Okay, so this doesn't sound like the sexiest thing, but do you know what the most popular podcast in America is?
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Sam Parr | Joe Rogan, I would say, is correct.
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Shaan Puri | Do you know what the second most popular is?
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Sam Parr | I would have guessed like "Call Her Daddy."
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Shaan Puri | Okay, great. I also would have thought it's some famous personality podcast.
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Sam Parr | Like the opposite of Joe... like Joe Rogan for women.
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Shaan Puri | Yeah, exactly. It's actually *Crime Junkie*, a podcast that was started by a 36-year-old podcaster.
Here's the headline: this 36-year-old podcaster is making **$45,000,000** a year in profit. **$45,000,000** a year!
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Sam Parr | It's insane. And where is she based? That's the crazy part.
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Shaan Puri | Part Indiana, so let me tell you the story here. This woman, **Ashley Flowers**, was working at a normal day job and grew up loving Agatha Christie stories. You know, these mystery crime stories. In fact, she loved them so much that she volunteered at a place called **Crime Stoppers**, a local crime-stopping organization in her town. It was supposed to help people report crimes to one central place.
To promote the organization, she volunteered and said, "Hey, what if I create a weekly radio show called *Murder Monday*?" She did it and realized, "Hey, people kinda like this! They like *Murder Monday*; this is working." She was just doing this for fun, volunteering on the side of her day job.
Then she hears about the **Serial** podcast when it comes out. *Serial* becomes this phenomenon, and she listens to it. She thinks, "Oh, that's cool! What if I did a *Murder Monday*-type show, but as a podcast?" So she jumps in. This is back in 2017. She records, comes home from her day job, records her first episode, uploads it, and off to the races!
Now, here we are later. She has 65 employees, her business just raised $40 million from **Churnin**, and has valued the company at $250 million. It has a reported or rumored $45 million of EBITDA per year, which honestly sounds a little high.
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Sam Parr | Something's off. The valuation's off.
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Shaan Puri | Exactly, it's only five times EBITDA, so I don't think that's...
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Sam Parr | And why would you raise money if...
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Shaan Puri | You're making $45,000,000 a year in profit, and the valuation's likely more true than the rumored profit number. But whatever, let's say I think $20,000,000 would be a very real number at the low end here.
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Sam Parr | Insane.
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Shaan Puri | She herself hosts two podcasts. She's the producer of the shows, sells the ads, and closes the deals. She's touring all around the country and the world.
She was working fifteen hours a day, but now she's down to ten hours a day. She has a little three-year-old daughter.
In the last five years, she has racked up over 500 million downloads. It's just insane volume.
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Sam Parr | That's ridiculous! Do you listen to true crime?
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Shaan Puri | I listen to a bit of true crime. So, okay, here's the "I told you so" part of this. If you go to the **MFM Vault** (mfmvault.com), which is a place where you can find old episodes and search for them, I just went on to the MFM Vault and...
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Sam Parr | I just searched "true crime."
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Shaan Puri | Because I know we've been talking about this, guess when the first time we talked about this was. Just guess the year.
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Sam Parr | I don't know... a year and a half ago, what?
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Shaan Puri | 2023
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Sam Parr | 23 | |
Shaan Puri | No, twenty-five years ago, there was an episode where Lance Armstrong popped by the office.
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Sam Parr | And literally. | |
Shaan Puri | Popped into the podcast while we were recording, and you and Lance Armstrong are talking about your favorite type of podcast. You both love true crime, and you guys are geeking out about it. Sam and Lance Armstrong, the greatest cyclist of all time.
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Sam Parr | Michael Jordan, Michael Phelps, Tiger.
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Shaan Puri | **Owns a bike, and Lance Armstrong, the greatest biker of all time, is talking about how we are the same.**
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Sam Parr | Yeah, like what? | |
Sam Parr | Do you like to get scared? That's the conversation, exactly.
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Shaan Puri | And we started talking about true crime. Then we talked about it again in 2023. We discussed Parcast; you had brought up that this guy created a true crime podcast network with 16 shows. He sold it to Spotify for about $100 million: $50 million in cash and $50 million in the earn-out.
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Sam Parr | What was his name? Mac something?
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Shaan Puri | Something... and then we talked. Then again, we talked about it a few years ago. We discussed "Law and Crime," which was this media company dedicated to true crime stories, as well as reporting on actual court cases that were going on. It was also acquired for more than a hundred million dollars.
All along the way, we've been talking about how true crime is this thing where there's an underrated appetite—more than you would think—for this. We had Mr. Bolin come on, and he talks about how his content is all about telling strange, dark, mysterious stories. People just love this stuff.
We've been discussing this, and every year that we've been talking about it, it sounds like it's too late. Yet, every year we talk about it, another nine-figure company has essentially started or grown during that time.
So even now, now that this is still super established, I still think there's a ton of opportunity here, and I wanted to brainstorm this a little bit with you. | |
Sam Parr | I am totally on board with this. I am a huge fan. My new favorite is the Law and Crime Network on YouTube. Whenever the "diddler" comes up or there's a new crime, like P. Diddy's "lube stuff," I was watching that.
Like, what's his name? Luigi Manjani? This is like a gift from God for the true crime people. I've been obsessed with all of this stuff, like learning about freak-off parties and learning about... you know, like, what does Luigi say?
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Shaan Puri | When LeBron James enters the draft, this is like, "Oh, we got a new hot prospect! We got Luigi!" Yeah, like, "Oh, Diddy is here! Oh my God, we're gonna have content for years!"
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Sam Parr | Dude, I listen to this stuff on my runs, and I am all about it. So, what do you want to brainstorm? Do you...?
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Shaan Puri | Listen to it on your runs. Like, you're just running away from a problem. Like, what are you doing?
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Sam Parr | I think my hypothesis is that, basically, with the true crime stuff, it's me and a hundred million women. It's like 80% women, I think, who are into this.
I believe that women listen to this from the perspective of, "How would I get away? How would I get out of this situation?" On the other hand, men listen to it from the perspective of, "How would I get away with this?" That's the perspective I think each of the genders listens to these things.
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Shaan Puri | Yeah, exactly. It's like *American Kingpin*. Yeah, my hero, my hero did this.
By the way, already an opportunity. So, you know when you run, I think most running apps or running music playlists try to have a certain beats per minute to keep up the pace during a run, right? They try to be up-tempo.
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Sam Parr | Yeah.
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Shaan Puri | True crime, 50 beats per minute. Dude, so innovation, white space, you know what I'm saying?
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Sam Parr | For Zone Two workouts, I only listen to "Solved Murders" by Parcast. Oh, I gotta go do a sixty-minute run. I turn on "Solved Murders," and that's sixty minutes of like, we're gonna get through two thirty-minute episodes, and I'm gonna learn about some crazy cases.
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Shaan Puri | Kinda slow, right? So, like, what if somebody created a higher energy?
Alright, so here's my brainstorm. Can I give you some pitches on my brainstorm? This was my five-minute brainstorm before the podcast. What would I do? Because it's one thing to say there's an opportunity there.
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Sam Parr | Great podcast already! How would I do it?
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Shaan Puri | But Sam, do we settle for great? I don't know about you, but great doesn't get me out of bed in the morning.
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Sam Parr | I mean, "great" is pretty good to me, yeah.
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Sam Parr | Honestly, it’d... | |
Sam Parr | Be a huge compliment.
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Shaan Puri | I'd be greatly flattered, yeah. Like, I was... I'd.
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Sam Parr | I'd rest on those laurels.
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Shaan Puri | But alright, here's the brainstorm: **white space in the true crime space** right now.
First, okay, the obvious one—this is not that fun of a one—but **YouTube**. Most of these that started were just audio-only podcasts, like *Serial*. They were inspired by *Serial*; they were podcasts. Most people thought podcasts were all audio. YouTube came out recently and announced that a billion people a month watch podcast content on YouTube.
So, if you're a podcaster and you're not doing YouTube, where are you at? And if you're listening to this podcast and you're not subscribed to us on YouTube, where are you at? That's what I have to say. Go find my fulfillment on YouTube!
Alright, but so the first thing is to go all in as a **YouTube-first podcast**. Even *Crime Junkie* started off heavily in audio and then began doing video just as kind of an add-on. If you go watch their video, it started off really scrappy, and now it looks a little bit better.
When she raised this money, she started investing in a full video studio to do this for real. The format is actually pretty great. Have you ever listened to her podcast? It's basically her sitting on a couch with her friend. But unlike most podcasts where there are two equal hosts going back and forth, it's her explaining to one friend what's going on with the crime, and her friend is actively listening. She's sitting there, engaged.
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Sam Parr | I see questions.
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Shaan Puri | Nodding her head, she mostly just listened and would ask a clarifying question when the listener had one.
So smart, by the way! That little thing is so smart because most content gets better the more you narrow it to an audience of one. If you're writing, write to one person. If you're doing a podcast, like this one, it works well because we kind of do that too. Instead of saying, "Alright listeners, we'd like to tell you about some great businesses," it's like, "Dude, Sam, have you seen this?" And you're like, "No." I'm like, "Check this out!"
That vibe actually works well for the podcast. So that's a little bit of the secret sauce. Alright, I gave you three of Colonel Sanders' nine.
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Sam Parr | I was going to say that there... that's last week. Last... what episode? It was "Leveraged."
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Shaan Puri | Your brain... what happened?
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Sam Parr | It was leveraged to the tits. Now, I just gave you three of the Colonel's nine spices. That's fantastic.
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Shaan Puri | I gave you a quarter kernel there.
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Sam Parr | I was going to say something, and you... that was great. I nuked your brain.
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Shaan Puri | Alright, my bad.
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Sam Parr | Oh, I was going to say, with this podcast, I did not know that you were going to bring this up. And you didn't know I was going to bring the other thing up. So that's like a little bit... that's how it works.
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Shaan Puri | We surprise each other intentionally, right? We could say, "Let's share notes. Let's do research. Let's be prepared." That makes for a good podcast. We surprise each other because the show is...
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Sam Parr | You need a reaction.
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Shaan Puri | I want to tell you something. I want you to react, I want you to riff for real, and then I want you to surprise me. That makes it fun for us to do.
So, she does the same thing. She basically tells the story to her friend, and her friend says they're actively listening. She started off just taking existing shows and now has a team of 10 journalists that do original reporting.
She now has another show called *The Deck*, where she works with local cops. They give her access to evidence, and they try to actually solve cold cases. Awesome! Is that insane? Just the greatest!
She is basically the Mr. Beast of true crime. When you see how she just took a very simple idea and took it very seriously, she scaled it up. It's like, yeah, why not have her own journalists? Why not scour the country for stories? Why not partner with the cops? Why not build a studio? Why not have a hundred employees? Why not turn this into a full-on production company?
She just kept going with that very simple idea. Mr. Beast is like, "What if I gave away a thousand dollars? What if I gave away $51,000? What if I gave away $1,000,000? What if you stood in a tiny circle? What if you stood in a big circle? What if you didn't have to stand in the circle? What if you had to lay down?"
He just keeps going with these ideas and takes a very simple concept but takes it more seriously than anybody else. So, I feel like she's done that.
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Sam Parr | She's coming to Radio City in New York in May. Should I go? I would totally go to one of her live events.
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Shaan Puri | Yeah, you should go.
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Sam Parr | Why not? She has a huge tour. She has a huge tour.
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Shaan Puri | You're going to become a very big fan of her. Let me tell you, I found something that when I found it, I thought, "Oh, Sam's gonna love this." I'm like the mama bird and you're the baby bird.
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Sam Parr | I'm about to puke.
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Shaan Puri | In your mouth with something you're gonna love. Peter Chernin, when he met her, here's the quote he said about her. He invested $40 million. He met her at a part of a TV show pitch and was like, "Wow, this woman is really impressive." He told his guy, "Go find a way to invest." He flew to Indiana and hounded her for this investment.
So here's what Peter Chernin said: "I find her uniquely impressive."
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Sam Parr | That's a good one. | |
Shaan Puri | He's good, right?
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Sam Parr | He’s been around everyone.
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Shaan Puri | I find her uniquely impressive. What a subtle but powerful compliment from a guy who's met so many interesting people.
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Sam Parr | And I think her and Pat McAfee are both in Indianapolis. They're like in a form of the Indianapolis podcasting "mafia."
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Shaan Puri | Two dots make a line. So check this out.
Okay, so here's the other white space here. Ready? Black true crime. Not a lot of Black podcasters doing true crime. There's a couple. | |
Sam Parr | Are you a...? | |
Sam Parr | **Follower of Black YouTube or Black Twitter.**
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Shaan Puri | I am a card-carrying member of Black culture, so yeah, I'm a part of it.
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Sam Parr | Is DJ Vlad the greatest YouTuber of all time?
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Shaan Puri | One of the greatest journalists of our time, of our era.
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Sam Parr | Yeah, getting the Wade brothers to like dish on what it's like, or like Club Shay Shay with Katt Williams getting on.
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Shaan Puri | Shay, Shay. | |
Sam Parr | Dude, how about Club Shay Shay getting like a hundred million? I think that was before Trump on Rogan, or maybe even including it. I think Club Shay Shay and Katt Williams is the number one most downloaded YouTube video or YouTube interview of the year.
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Shaan Puri | Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. It's insane. By the way, the funniest thing is that Theo Von clip where he's talking about how he has a Katt Williams statue. Just play that. Put that on the intro. Just play the clip; it's so good. | |
Theo Von | You see a lot of this Kat Williams stuff, man.
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Shaan Puri | Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's been crazy.
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Theo Von | I got a statue of him at home. Really? Yeah, I got a Christmas statue. It's like a Christmas Katt Williams that I have in my home. There it is.
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Druski | I don't even think that was Katt Williams. I was just...
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Shaan Puri | Katt ain't baby.
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Druski | Well, that was a black... what do you call this shit?
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Theo Von | Katt Williams, that's what you call it. That's a black nutcracker. You ain't telling me that ain't no fucking Katt Williams, bro. It's not Katt Williams. I'm taking that piss off.
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Druski | Somehow, someway, that's **fucking** racist. That's not Katt Williams.
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Theo Von | That ain't racist, bro. Black Nutcracker, bro. I'm supporting the culture. How many people got a fucking Black Cat Williams in the house for Christmas? Cat Williams, zoom in on his face a little bit, bruh.
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Druski | Now that you see it, I kind of see it.
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Sam Parr | It's so good! It's so good! Are there not more of these true crime shows geared towards that audience?
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Shaan Puri | There's only a couple, and the very first one was called something like "Affirmative Crime." Someone was like, "No, that's a bad name. This is not right."
Yeah, this has happened in comedy podcasts. Comedy podcasts started with a lot of white comedians in LA, but now there are so many really funny podcasts. You know, just two guys hanging out, like two black comedians hanging out, sports podcasts, etc.
I think podcasting started off pretty homogeneously white, and true crime, even just the way it comes across, is a little bit like...
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Sam Parr | Midwestern NPR woman, right? | |
Shaan Puri | Like, *Serial* kind of was in that lineage. I think she used to work for NPR, right? Something like that.
So, it just feels very produced and almost like New York elitist. Exactly, exactly. It needs to be more, you know, country grammar. They also need someone who listened to a lot of Nelly growing up.
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Sam Parr | They all, like a lot of those guys, have that Ira Glass vibe, like "Today's episode..." in *This American Life*. | |
Sam Parr | Yeah, you know what I mean?
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Shaan Puri | That cadence is so good.
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Sam Parr | Yeah, alright. It's like it's... | |
Sam Parr | That's a cool one. Well, by the way, world's worst impression too.
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Shaan Puri | Be good at Ira Glass. This is the only time that was ever gonna land for you.
Alright, the next one is comedy times true crime. I think a lot of the true crime podcasts are very serious. They're heavy, they're trying to be mysterious and creepy. It makes total sense; you get why you do it that way.
I think there's an opening for somebody to do true crime but just with a comedy angle. And, you know, not to toot our own horn here, but we did this a little bit in the business space. A lot of the business podcasts, a lot of the interviews, a lot of the podcasts were just an IQ contest. Everybody just wanted to be the bigger know-it-all than the other. It was very dry and informational.
You know, me and you, this is kind of how we talk when we hang out. We just didn't filter ourselves that way. It's not that we're like, compared to comedians, we're not funny, but compared to most VCs, we're pretty funny.
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Sam Parr | And that bar is low.
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Shaan Puri | And so, the bar is low. Also, in true crime, there's nobody funny. So if you're even moderately funny, you're the funniest true crime podcast.
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Sam Parr | Let me ask a question. So, there's... am I? | |
Shaan Puri | Talking out of my ass, are they actually?
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Sam Parr | Funny ones? No, well, you're not off, but you're actually right. And I'm going to give you one piece of evidence that you're right.
So, we are called MFM. I have gotten hate mail from women who are like, "You're not MFM. The real MFM is My Favorite Murder."
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Shaan Puri | Yeah, we're not even the most famous... we'll never be the most famous MFM podcast.
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Sam Parr | Yeah, have you heard of *My Favorite Murder*? Have people said, "You're not really out of..." | |
Shaan Puri | I've never listened to it, though. Is it humorous? It looks like it.
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Sam Parr | So, go to the website. The headline is "A True Crime Comedy Podcast."
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Shaan Puri | Okay.
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Sam Parr | And listen, nailed it! It's hugely popular.
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Shaan Puri | Got. | |
Sam Parr | It’s hugely popular, but I actually have a bone to pick. Dude, they’re talking about Ted Bundy killing people and they’re like, “Isn’t he hot?” They’re talking about, you know what I mean? It’s kind of weird. They’re talking about wanting to, like, get with Ted Bundy. So, I’m basically...
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Shaan Puri | We should do something. We should have a coffee shop with Wi-Fi. You know, like, "Hey, go to Starbucks."
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Sam Parr | But you're right. Look, it's like, you know, had you developed the theory of relativity and never even heard of Albert Einstein, I would say you're a genius.
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Shaan Puri | A few other possibilities here: true romance.
I think there's an opportunity to do a true crime style genre but spin off to combine two very popular genres: true crime and romance.
We've talked a lot in the past about how the most read books and the most voracious readers are reading Danielle Steel and "Fifty Shades of Grey" style romance novels. I think somebody could do true romance as a podcast genre.
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Sam Parr | One of my favorite true crime podcasts has a series called **Killer Couples**, and it's all about lovebirds.
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Sam Parr | Who goes out and commits murder?
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Shaan Puri | And maybe you should have done this prank because I don't really listen to true crime. I listened to two seasons of *Serial* and fell asleep to a few true crime podcasts.
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Sam Parr | Serial is like the JV team now compared to, you know, what's going on now. Alright, I'm on board with *Killer Couples*. What else do you have?
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Shaan Puri | I mean, I just feel a little bit discouraged, but I'll just finish out because quitting is the only thing more embarrassing than what's happening.
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Sam Parr | Wait, hold on. Speaking of true crime, I do think that there is this weird...
When we did this one bit with the hustle about romance novels, there were these crazy weird genres. First of all, romance novels are a massive hit. But there are women who want a romance novel about a military guy.
Then, take it a step further. There are women who want to have sex with werewolves. You know, what was that movie called? The one with Robert Pattinson? The Twilight series.
There were some weird undertones of bestiality with all that stuff, right? So, I think that there's always a niche for... yeah.
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Shaan Puri | But you know what? The bone I have to pick with this is that nobody likes hairy dudes. As a hairy dude out here, where's the appeal? What do you just...? | |
Sam Parr | Said you like werewolves.
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Shaan Puri | But not just hairy guys... yeah, could you? | |
Sam Parr | You need to get rebranded, like as a wolf.
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Shaan Puri | I'm excited when I heard that werewolves were a thing for women, and then it just did not translate whatsoever. | |
Sam Parr | Look, gray-haired guys have rebranded to the "silver foxes." Yeah, you know, we gotta do something for the hairy backs.
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Shaan Puri | I heard somebody say this the other day. They were like, "Oh yeah, I had this like salt and pepper thing going on." And they're like, "Yeah, it's a lot of salt though. That's the problem."
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Sam Parr | Like I'd. | |
Sam Parr | Be like... | |
Shaan Puri | It's just salt.
Okay, so last thing: games. Do they make games? So there's that one board game. Do you remember what it's called? It's kind of a mystery board game subscription series. "Catch a Murder," "Catch a Killer," "Hunt a Killer."
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Sam Parr | <Hunt a killer. I think hunt a... | |
Shaan Puri | Killer. | |
Sam Parr | When we talked about it, I think it was doing $30,000,000 a year.
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Shaan Puri | Revenue: tens of millions a year. I think that this woman, instead of touring, should be creating board games.
She should be creating a game that's in Target and Walmart on the shelf. It could be a true crime card game or board game where people can solve these cases together cooperatively.
Or it could be something like Mafia, where one person is the game master and the other players are trying to figure it out. I think a game that takes a mechanic like that but applies true crime themes would be great.
Use your brand as Crime Junkies. I think somebody should be partnering with true crime podcasts to build those out.
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Sam Parr | <Hunt a Killer, I think it's called. My whole perspective on games got completely changed. We hung out with the guy, Elon, at... | |
Shaan Puri | He's coming on the podcast, by the way.
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Sam Parr | We're doing it. What was it called? "Killing Kittens" or something?
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Shaan Puri | Exploding Kittens | |
Sam Parr | Exploding Kittens is a board game, or it's a card game, but I guess it's a board game. I don't know what... we'll wait to see if he's going to reveal anything, but it's shockingly large.
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Shaan Puri | Like, numbers are bananas. He's also like, "Yeah, of the top five most popular games in the world, we make number one, two, four, and five."
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Sam Parr | Yeah, I was. | |
Shaan Puri | Like, damn.
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Sam Parr | It was amazing how successful that is, and I was like, "I should start a game company." He felt like a 12-year-old; he had the excitement of a 12-year-old. He was so into games and making people smile through these games that I was like...
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Shaan Puri | % | |
Sam Parr | This guy's crazy.
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Shaan Puri | My takeaway was, "Oh my God, I wish I was doing this! This is so cool; I could do this."
Yes, and then I saw how truly joyful he was about making the games. Not about being successful at it, but the doing part. I was like, "Oh, that's different than me. I don't have that. I just want to have done it."
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Sam Parr | He, yeah, you want the result. He was showing us this game, and it was like half done. He had a pen that he had written in, like, different points on the cards. He was making the game as he was going, and he was like, "Wouldn't this be cool? Let's change the game to this." He was doing it in real time, and we were playing the game. It would be like, you know, playing poker, and he's like...
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Shaan Puri | Did you see we? | |
Sam Parr | Should come up with like an ace. An ace means this... yeah.
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Shaan Puri | He was like rapid prototyping on us. Did you see what he pulled out of his pocket while we were playing that game? By the way, just a total side note, I'm like... it was so funny.
What was it? He's trying to read a card and he can't read it; he needs his glasses. So, he pulled out a pair of glasses, but the glasses had no arms. It was like a monocle, but for two lenses. He just rested it on the bridge of his nose and started reading it.
I completely couldn't pay attention to the rest of the game because I was just constantly trying to figure out, "Is he gonna fall off his nose?" and "What are the physics of this? How does this work?"
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Sam Parr | I think they're called readers. He had readers on or something like that. Is that correct?
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Shaan Puri | A thing is that a known thing, like modern monocles, it's like...
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Sam Parr | You see them at Walgreens, like next to the aisle, next to the checkout. You know what I mean? It's like the sweetest thing. Stakes sometimes, yes. Is that what they call it?
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Shaan Puri | I've been sleeping on this phone.
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Sam Parr | I am amazed that this woman is potentially doing **$45,000,000** a year. I don't know if I believe it because that is so shocking. But we should see if anyone listening can get us in touch with her. I would like to talk to her for the podcast; that would be fun.
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Shaan Puri | **Yeah, Ashley Flowers is very, very impressive.**
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Sam Parr | How old is she? | |
Shaan Puri | 36 | |
Sam Parr | She's young. Wow, that's crazy! And she's...
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Shaan Puri | My age, dude, that's crazy! I could be her; she could be me. We could trade.
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Sam Parr | Isn't that crazy? Like, you know, now we're like, "Yeah, that's obvious." But seven years ago, to be like, "I'm gonna start a crime podcast and that's gonna make me a billionaire," that's pretty wild.
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Sam Parr | Pretty wild.
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Sam Parr | Because she potentially might be a billionaire after another five or ten years because of this. That's absolutely wild! We called it, so we're right, and we deserve all the credit.
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Shaan Puri | No, we didn't call it. It was identified early on by us as a likely outcome.
Alright, do we... I have a bunch more, but I think it's time to wrap up. So maybe we should call it.
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Sam Parr | I think we should call it.
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Shaan Puri | Wait, wait, wait, wait. Before we go, did you see *Fyre Festival 2*?
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Sam Parr | He didn't listen to our advice.
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Shaan Puri | So, Billy came on our podcast right after he got out of prison.
I love that! While other people get authors during their book tours, we get the post-prison guests. We had Shkreli, we had Billy... we get them first, right out of prison.
And you told him... what did you tell him? You gave him some advice.
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Sam Parr | He basically was explaining all of these ideas for his business. He owes money, so he has to earn money.
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Shaan Puri | He owes a little bit of money. He owes a lot—like $27 million or $30 million.
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Sam Parr | A lot, and he was like, "I'm gonna start this festival. We're gonna do like this other festival."
We were just like, "You know, maybe you should... maybe you shouldn't." I think you shouldn't do that. I think that like maybe you can... there's a lot of things you can do because you're famous, but you know, a Fyre Fest 2? Maybe you shouldn't do that.
And he's doing exactly that.
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Shaan Puri | So, he's doing Fyre Festival 2? Is that...? | |
Sam Parr | What we said to him on the pod... Did we say anything else?
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Shaan Puri | We told him, "You're crazy," and he was like, "What if we did it right this time?"
So, an article came out today. It says Fyre Festival 2 is off to a rough start again, just days after the tickets go on sale. This event is allegedly taking place on Isla Mujeres, an island off the coast of Mexico.
The local tourism board claims they have no knowledge of this event. The director of the tourism board says, "We have never had any contact with any person or company about this. For us, this is an event that does not exist."
Then, if you go to the location they list for where it's going to take place... I don't know if you have Google Maps, Andy, but if you open up 21 degrees, 12 degrees, 30, 32... just look at where the event is supposed to take place. Take a look at this. There you go.
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Sam Parr | In the ocean.
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Shaan Puri | The location is in the middle of the ocean where there's no land.
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Sam Parr | Also, the most expensive tickets are $25,000. You know how we've joked about entrepreneurs who have just taken what has worked? They just say, "Alright, you sold all these candy bars, just do the same thing now but for a Reese's Peanut Butter Cup style product."
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Shaan Puri | Right. | |
Sam Parr | He did that, so he must have exported the code for that old website. He just put a number two on it, and now he's doing Fyre Fest 2. It's the same thing.
What did that woman's... what did that guy's wife say? Instead of "I told you so," it was, "This had a bunch of predictable outcomes." What did she... what's the line?
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Shaan Puri | This was identified early on as a likely outcome. Yeah, you called it.
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Sam Parr | This is insane. I don't even know how he's allowed to leave the country.
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Shaan Puri | But yeah, it's not good. But hey, listen, I'm an optimist. There's a chance. There's always a chance.
Here are some other great quotes from this article, by the way.
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Sam Parr | We tried.
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Shaan Puri | Billy took to Instagram to address the concerns. Here's what he said:
"Fire Two is real. We have incredible partners leading the festivals. They're in charge of all logistics and production operations. There's no way they would ever take on a fake festival."
He didn't say the right part, and then the next thing he says is, "Well, the tourism board responded. The organizers did not even bother to approach the authorities."
It's very strange because anyone who organizes events knows that if you're going to hold an event, let alone a massive event, you need municipal authorization. I think they thought they could just announce it, see if it got traction, and then ask for permits halfway down the path. It's a bit naive.
McFarlane responds, "We have accommodations."
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Sam Parr | Is that really what he said? That's what he said before.
Also, you could buy tickets on his website for up to $20,000. But there's a great way to accept your money as a user. However, they don't list any bands. It's a show, right?
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Shaan Puri | Yeah, so that's the other part here. At this point, no talent has been announced for the festival. However, McFarlane responds, "We have talent, artists, athletes, and other performers on board."
So, did I ever tell you about the time I went on a trip with my dad? I learned the power of just being absolutely delusional.
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Sam Parr | The negotiation.
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Shaan Puri | It wasn't even a full negotiation. I mean, it wasn't even a negotiating situation. We were at the airport, and my dad is cheap, so he doesn't want to pay to check luggage in. | |
Sam Parr | Oh yeah.
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Shaan Puri | So, he just bought a bag that was too big to check in and stuffed it. Then they asked, "Do you want to check bags?" He said, "Yep, just that one," referring to the free one.
The lady, this poor little lady from Singapore Airlines behind the desk, was like, "Sir, you'll need to check that one too." He responded, "No, no, I'm carrying that on." She said, "Sir, it's too big."
My dad then replied, "No, actually, it's too small." Not even, not even... No, it's not too big; it's okay. He insisted, "It's too small," which makes absolutely no sense to anyone in any situation. There's no such thing as it being too small.
By the way, she just kept saying, "I think it's over the limit." He said, "No, it's too small. I checked; it's too small." And it worked! She let him on the plane, and we got it on the plane.
At the plane, they said, "Sir, it's not going to fit." He said, "You need to check it up front here because it's free to check when you're up there." And we got it for free! | |
Theo Von | And then. | |
Shaan Puri | He just kept doing this on the trip. We were trying to get into this place, and he was like, "Oh, let's go to the Four Seasons. They have this New Year's festival; they're doing this big celebration there."
As we were driving up, there were all these signs saying, "You must be a member. You must be a resident to attend." I was like, "Dad, it says we have to be staying here. We're definitely not staying at the Four Seasons, so we can't do this. We should turn around."
He said, "No, no, no, it's gonna be fine. It's gonna be fine."
We were like, "What do you mean?" There was a guy at the front gate checking everybody's IDs and asking for their room numbers. My dad just pulls up and says, "So, what do you need to see? Some ID or something?"
The guy just goes, "No, it's good. You're fine. Go ahead."
We got in, and I was like, "Wow."
Somebody had tweeted this out: "Delulu is the salulu." I've been saying that for the last two days. My kids know I'm just "delulu is the salulu." If you got a problem, I got a salulu for you. "Delulu is the salulu."
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Sam Parr | Who said that?
| |
Shaan Puri | Who tweeted that? This long, thoughtful thing. And this guy just responded with, "The Lulu is the Salulu." I was like, "This is amazing!" | |
Sam Parr | That should be the new small boy stuff.
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Shaan Puri | I don't have any tattoos, but I did... it's up there. It's a contender: my kids' names and that.
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Sam Parr | Dude, that seems like a cute thing that a Gen Z woman would say on a true crime podcast. It's just like, "We stole MFM; you know we're going to steal that one too." Thank you, that is now ours!
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Shaan Puri | Sorry, I wish I could remember who just said it. I don't know your name.
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Sam Parr | This is a good podcast because I'm exhausted from laughing. That's how I know.
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Shaan Puri | I had a really good time. Yeah, let's do it again sometime.
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Sam Parr | Alright, great show! See you all out there. Have a good night. That's it, that's the pod.
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