What It's Like to Be Rich & How to Respond to Growth Plateaus | My First Million #188

Shaan Puri

It's really hard to start a two-sided marketplace. When you do, the prize is $1,000,000,000 in your pocket.

Sam Parr

alright what's up

Shaan Puri

I was thinking about the beginning of these because if you watch like joe rogan joe just sort of rolls into the conversation it's actually starts like mid sentence of what they're already talking about and I think that's kinda cool it's pretty casual and then you have other people that really try to like brand their brand their beginning so I'll give you a couple examples and you tell me which one you think is a good idea so the all in podcast which I like is hosted by jason calacanis and then he what he does is they have the what they call the cold open which we do sometimes too which is you pull the kinda like the most interesting or funny one liner from the middle of the episode you put it at the beginning and then you roll into like the intro song where it where he kind of it's like a custom song that introduces the 4 people it's like chamath the spack king you know david friedberg the key the queen of quinoa or whatever so that's like one version then there's you know Scott adams the guy who started dilbert or writes the dilbert comic he does this thing every time he does a live and he he used to do live streams like every day or something like that and he would always say let's start with a ceremonial sip and he would like hold up his drink to the camera he would have you do it too even though you're not even on camera you're just at home he's like everybody let's do this and cheers alright here we go and he's like he talked about it he's like he's big on neuro linguistic programming nlp and and so he's or hypno he's like a trained hypnotist or something like that and so he's like you want to like associate the same sort of like he's like doing this with my tea is brilliant or your coffee because it has emotion it has a taste it has a smell and it has a word auditory thing I'm saying every single time the same exact thing and so I'm basically programming you for a certain feeling or emotion of the live so he's like really you know going hard at it our buddy pop does the same thing he's got like his little catchphrase where he starts he's like bang bang everybody and he does this little finger thing at the start of every single video very specifically it does the same thing every single time so what do you think

Sam Parr

about that I like the joe rogan one

Shaan Puri

the just roll into it dunk try so hard

Sam Parr

yeah do you agree

Shaan Puri

I I definitely think the other one's more effective but but who cares like you know I think if you have to try that hard I think it's fine I guess it's fun to do if it's whatever if you think of something but if nothing comes naturally I I don't think you should force it because it's just more likely like awkward than anything else at that. And in general I think that like I tweeted this out about twitter bios I don't know if you saw this tweet I did but I said here's the twitter bio paradox I showed 2 people side by side one was dan gilbert who's been our billy of the week before so like an an actual billionaire so I wrote this guy's a baller and his his bio makes him try to sound like a regular guy because his his his twitter bio is like you know family man retired pizza delivery driver you know trying to make an impact on as many people as I can and then it's like at cavs at quicken loans at whatever like his companies like yeah he owns an nba team and like a a 10 to $30,000,000,000 company or whatever and then I put a but the other side I just puts up some random guy I I had to snipe some some guy didn't didn't mean nothing personal but I just searched on twitter forbes 30 into 30 to see who would be putting that in their bio because that's the ultimate tell that you're trying too hard because you know we've talked about before it doesn't mean shit and I found this guy who was like investor entrepreneur innovator philanthropist philanthropist exactly forbes 30 under 30 finalist which people were just making fun of him like dude you weren't even forbes 30 under 30 you were a finalist you were like one of the top 30,000 people or something and then he's like you know international speaker renowned you know whatever I can't say that and then he at mentions like 2 companies that he's like you know started or whatever nobody's ever heard of these companies and so I said on one side you have a baller trying to act like like trying to counter signal that he's a regular guy and on the other side you have a regular guy trying to signal that he's a baller and you know this is the the paradox of twitter the harder you try the more you tell me that you're still trying and and you could see this across the board there's you know a lot of people have no bio and the no bio is like my name speaks for itself you either know who I am or I don't care I have achieved so much fame that I'm not trying to impress you so I think that's a pretty interesting tell and and I like the the term that somebody pointed out for it which was signaling and counter signaling they're actually both signaling the rich guy is trying to signal the the rich guy is trying to signal I'm just like you don't mind me don't hate me and then the other guy is trying to say I'm bigger than I am right but both are both are signaling

Sam Parr

oh you wanna do some questions yeah

Shaan Puri

let's do it

Sam Parr

alright I'm gonna ask you a question

Shaan Puri

alright

Sam Parr

That people ask us... this is a funny question. I don't know if I want to answer this. We'll let you do it. Oh, Dan Camposom. Alright, Dan, but let me ask one first: **What's it like to be rich?**

Shaan Puri

Yeah, it's sweet. It's sweet because you don't have to worry about a bunch of things. So, it doesn't take away all your worries, but it takes away all your money worries. If you've ever been hit with something like, "My car was in an accident," it's like, "Oh shit, I'm going to have to pay like $1,000 to get this repaired." If I didn't have money lying around, that can ruin a day real quick. That can ruin a week real quick. That can ruin a month. So, yeah, it's sweet to not have to have a certain set of worries or things that just are downers.

Sam Parr

Do you have a number? What's interesting is that there's this idea of having a number, like "I'm ready to retire." A lot of studies have been done, and very interestingly, many people will have a number that they're at. Then, if you double it, that's what they like. On average, people say, "Look, if you have $5,000,000, it'd be like, if I had $10,000,000, I'd be happy." If only...

Shaan Puri

I had 10 yeah

Sam Parr

yeah or if I have 10 if I had 20 I'd be happy which is always kind of funny

Shaan Puri

it's like 3 inches in height everybody wants 3 inches in height right

Sam Parr

do you did you have a number do you have a number

Shaan Puri

Yeah, I did. And then some people who were way past that were like, "Dude, that number is not enough." So I used to say 6,000,000 because I've done some calculations. I was like, "66 should do it." What I was trying to calculate was if I had 6,000,000 invested, I was saying, "Okay, with X, you know, average annual return, does that cover my life burn?" Even if my life burn was twice what it is today. And people were like, "Yeah, but you know that rate of return is a little bit too optimistic, and your life burn is gonna go up more. You just haven't really figured that out yet. You know, the more money you have, the higher your life burn is gonna go. It's hard to really be disciplined about that."

Sam Parr

so do you have a number now

Shaan Puri

Yeah, so now I think the number is... I don't know, I think $20 million is the number where I would now have to think of different ways that... like why money matters. Why more money would matter to me. All the obvious things would be more than taken care of at $20 million.

Sam Parr

So what's funny is I've talked about this with... [others] as well, and the people at 20 say the same thing. 40 maybe... 40 maybe... 40. So I don't know when that stops.

Shaan Puri

Because I used to think 1, and then I used to think 6. Once you get there, you're like, "Okay, you're at 6." Well, no, 6... listen, I'm not... I can't stop here, right? Maybe 20. And then maybe at 20, I'll do the same thing. What do you think it is?

Sam Parr

So, I think it definitely depends. Like, if you have $15 to $20 million at a really young age, let's say 31, you're set. It's hard to lose. Yeah, I can lose $10 million and still have $10 million. So, it's hard to lose. Now, you're not flying private, but you're living a really nice life, and you're never going to work again. But here's the thing, guys: I don't know about you, but guys like me, even though I say I'm not going to work anymore, I'm always going to work. Yeah, because work is play. So, I think someone who could earn $20 million at a young age is set regardless because they're always going to be able to earn.

Shaan Puri

That's a very good question. The age definitely matters because it's all about how many years of compounding you're going to get from there.

Sam Parr

Starting to... I was doing the math, basically, like at a 7.5% return. So, if you believe that the trailing 100 years is going to repeat itself for the next 100 years, then you can... if you believe that to be true, then your money will double approximately every 9 years. So, $20 at 30 becomes $40 at 40, which becomes $80 at 50, which becomes $160 at 60, and that becomes $1,000,000,000 by the time you're 90. Which is kind of wild how that works. Now, the question is, when we're 90, is $1,000,000,000 even going to mean that much? Who knows? But that growth is quite phenomenal, and that's really hard to grasp unless you put it in front of you. So, getting wealthy-ish at a young age, I think, is very significant.

Shaan Puri

Yeah, okay, so that's fine. I don't know, I feel like I gave kind of a generic answer to the question, "What's it like to be rich?" What I'm glad I didn't do was say, "Oh, you know, it's not as good as you think," which a lot of people, especially rich people, will say. You know, they might say, "I thought it would be great, but then I realized that what really matters is family." It's like, yeah dude, I know that family matters! What I'm really asking is, what's the rich part of the experience like? How's that been for you? I guess what I would say is, whatever "rich" means to you, the main benefit from my perspective is that there are just certain things you don't have to concern yourself with, work on, or worry about anymore. The biggest benefit is that if I don't want to work or I don't want to go to a particular job, I can just not do that. I can choose to do something else with my time. The money has freed up time, and that time can now be invested in any activity you want. Typically, you're picking things you really enjoy or that you think make a real impact, rather than doing something just to pay next month's bills.

Sam Parr

Andrew asked, "Outside of business, this is Andrew Woodson. What do you research and read about?" I'll go first. I read a ton of history. I love American history, starting around 1860 and going all the way up to about 1950. I think that's when crony capitalism kind of went away, and all the regulations that came into place in America started to emerge. A lot of interesting stuff was going on during that time. I also love reading and listening about the mafia because I think what the mafia did is as American as apple pie. It's so fascinating to me. So, I read a ton of history and research a lot of early American stuff. I like to go to museums and look at old architecture from that era.

Shaan Puri

Wow, we couldn't be more different. Alright, so outside of business, I would break it into three groups. I study or research what the nerds are into right now. So anytime, you know, smart friends who are kind of technically minded are into something, it takes me probably five times longer than them just to understand that new technology. But I put in that time because I like it. For example, somebody will mention something like, "Hey, you know this AI thing is not able to predict protein folding." And I'll be like, "Protein folding? I don't know what the heck proteins fold for. What's protein folding all about? What have people tried before? How do they even get this to work? What is actually machine learning? How does that work?" So I try to basically study what the nerds study. That's one. Two is more of like unwinding, which is sports. I'm knee-deep in basketball, you know, so I like to follow all the storylines, stats, you know, that sort of thing. And then the last one that I would say is self-help or some kind of mindset. I think that, you know, people probably at this...

Shaan Puri

If you listen to this podcast, you know that more than anything, I'm a believer that if you can master your mind, you've won the game. I think that that's the hardest, hardest thing to master: your mind. I want to read all the different ways people do that, try them, and self-experiment. Then, I will go back and research more. So, that's the third thing I...

Sam Parr

Do you think success influenced or changed the dynamics of your romantic relationships? That's a good question, but we both have been from...

Shaan Puri

julie julie davila

Sam Parr

yes julie had that's a good question

Shaan Puri

best question so far

Sam Parr

So, I met my wife right when I started my company. Before that, I dated a ton. I was... I was okay.

Shaan Puri

big dog

Sam Parr

I was a... I'm not saying it was successful. Let me change that. I tried to date a ton. Yeah, so I tried to... I liked women. It didn't always work, but I prefer being in a relationship. Being successful has been cool with my wife because we manage our success together and like...

Shaan Puri

I think for both of us our wives were successful before we were

Sam Parr

yeah my wife yeah we're at least way more liquid that's

Shaan Puri

they made they made more money faster than we than we did

Sam Parr

Dude, I'll say it. I mean, my wife was a self-made liquid millionaire before I was.

Shaan Puri

Right, yeah, I think the same is true for me. So, that was the first part. You know how it is. The real question is, how was success for them?

Sam Parr

I was like we're working

Shaan Puri

With this marrying this broke entrepreneur who keeps trying to say he's living the big dream, but you know, where's the success for like, you know, 5 years? That's the first question.

Sam Parr

So, yeah, when I dated Sarah, her mom was like, "So, does he...?" Her parents are entrepreneurs, so they kind of got it, but they asked, "Does he have a job?" I said, "Well, no, he's trying to start this conference thing." They asked, "Well, where does he work?" I explained, "He works on his laptop; he can work anywhere." They didn't get it. In my first year, I made like $20,000 and then $50,000.

Shaan Puri

he's a wedding planner I think

Sam Parr

Yeah, like, so anyway, my wife had a full-time job and she was probably making six figures straight out of college. She graduated from an Ivy League school and went to Facebook. Anyway, how has it changed the dynamics? It's made it, in my opinion, way better. We do all of our finances together. We meet once a week and go over everything.

Shaan Puri

Do you do the same thing? When I started dating my wife, she had just bought her first house. She was driving a BMW M3 Sport. I was living under my parents' house in an unpermitted in-law unit that I shared with my best friend from high school. That's where I was. I didn't have a car, didn't have a house. I had a job; I had a good job, I guess. But yeah, that's how we were when we met. And then, you know, great! What does he do? He's a CEO of a startup. Okay, so you know, he's virtually unemployed... on the brink of unemployment, essentially, was the situation.

Sam Parr

that's strange

Shaan Puri

I'll say one thing, which is, as good things started to happen, I got promoted from a Product Manager to CEO of the company. Then, from CEO to investing and selling the company, and all that stuff. There was definitely a point where I got a little cocky. Not intentionally, but I look back now and I'm like, I was kind of being a dick. I sort of thought all these people I hung out with, who are super successful, didn't have to deal with any of the bullshit at home that I was dealing with. It's like, okay, yeah, I gotta take out the trash. Does my investor take out the trash? I don't know, maybe he's got somebody who takes out the trash for him. Right? Like, oh, I have to wake up at... right now, I wake up in the morning at 7 o'clock, and from 7 to 10 AM, I'm on daddy duty, taking care of the baby. I was sort of like, "Aren't we supposed to have nannies for this?" I was very spoiled in that sense, and I thought, "Well, no, I'm the successful working guy, right? So I don't have to do these normal things." That was my entitlement to myself. Then I realized two things: 1. Yeah, those guys do that too. A lot of the people that I admire did all that too; they just didn't complain about it like a little bitch. 2. They’re like, "Who cares? Do whatever works for you and your family, and stop holding your time as more valuable than my wife's time, or my kids' time, or my dog's time, or anybody else's." I used to have...

Sam Parr

your dog's time

Shaan Puri

I used to think my time was the most precious. Now, I don't. Now I'm sort of like, you know, it's our time. We gotta use it how we want.

Sam Parr

Do you... I think it's cool we're both married. I think it's cool to have this team mentality, you know? When my wife and I... so, we're both Catholic, and even though we don't practice or anything, I was like, "We have to get married in a Catholic church." It was important to me. What that means is you have to meet with the priest. He was like, "So, why are you getting married?" We were like, "Well, we have similar values in life. We have the same goals. We both want to take over everything. We want to have children and raise them in a particular type of way. We want to share our assets and pull together." And he's like, "Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa! What about love? You guys love each other?" And we're like, "Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, that too." For us, it was definitely... we definitely love each other, but also, there's life's real partnership. It's a very practical way to go through life. It's easier for one another when you have someone whose family you can count on no matter what. They're going to have your back. So anyway, I've enjoyed having a little bit of success while being married. If you're single, I guess the pros could be like you could just fool around with people way out of your league. But I do think that it would be exhausting and actually probably not as fulfilling, but maybe more fun.

Shaan Puri

Man, I look back now to when I was single. I was 25 years old, didn't own a possession in the world, and I was managing a bunch of people who were 10 to 20 years older than me. They had kids, families, mortgages, and all the stuff. At the time, I thought I was being super understanding about it. Now, when I look back, I'm like, "Oh my God, I was such an idiot." I just didn't understand how hard it is for these people to give this much to a startup when they have all these responsibilities and obligations at home. I was just a free bird, 25 years old, and I could waste my time away; it didn't matter. For these people, that extra hour they spent at work threw off the whole dinnertime and bedtime schedule for their kids and their wives. I just look back now and I apologize to anybody I worked with then because I didn't truly understand. I thought this hustle culture was the right answer then and now, and I didn't realize how much they were already giving. I always wanted more.

Sam Parr

What, you know, let's do two more. What pandemic behavior do you want to maintain?

Shaan Puri

Yeah, basically, last year was... you know, it sounds insensitive, so whatever, maybe that's the case, but last year was the best year of my life. Same! You know, I had a blast and a whole bunch of life events happened. I had a kid; I became a dad. I grew out my hair, built a home gym, and started working out regularly. You know, I'm working from home, so I just had way more time with my family and my wife than when I was commuting every day and was at the office all day. This podcast has been a lot of fun. There have been like 10 amazing things that happened this year that made this year literally the best year of my life. In terms of pandemic behavior, I would say I definitely don't like getting close to people and shaking their hands anyway, so... good! I'm just going to keep not doing that. But I would say the home gym and daily workout at 1 PM is definitely the behavior I need to keep going with.

Sam Parr

I agree. I've gotten in wonderful shape throughout this, and that's the one I'm going to maintain. Yeah, alright, last one maybe.

Shaan Puri

I'm curious about this favorite purchase one. Alright, okay, let's do three of these. If you're 21 again, what would you be doing?

Sam Parr

I can't stand that question but I'll answer it

Shaan Puri

yeah what is it

Sam Parr

If I was 21 now, in 2021, I don't... I don't know what I would do. Let me think. What would you be? What would you do?

Shaan Puri

I think I would go on tour with the most interesting spaces and the most interesting people. So, what I would do is say, "Hey, I'm a hired gun. You pay me whatever—pay me $5,000 a month, $10,000 a month, something like that, a flat fee. I'm going to come work my ass off for you for three months. If I love it, I'll stay on. But by default, you're going to get somebody unbelievable—your right-hand man—to deal with any headaches or problems you have. You'll never see somebody work harder and smarter at figuring things out than me." I would pick basically four or five people that I thought were amazing, who were doing things in interesting fields and working on interesting projects. I would pitch that to them, and if they said no, I would find the next five people. I would just go on tours. I would treat work like I would treat marriage, in the sense that I would focus on dating, having fun, figuring out what I like, and figuring out what likes me. I would be in no rush to find the project, start the company, or pick a career. I would say, "Cool, I'm going to have these little three-month relationships with badass people in badass spaces." You know, I commit to doing that for two years, and then I'll figure it out after that. That'll be my Mormon mission.

Sam Parr

I would probably say my goal at 21 would be: how do I become a liquid millionaire by 25? Then, after 25, I could dedicate a little bit more time to a bigger purpose, or how do I create cash flow? So, I think I would want to start a blog or something like that and try to sell it within the next 2 or 3 years.

Shaan Puri

I would not try to do that because I think that, you know, if we're measuring the score on like... I don't know, 10 years. Or 20 years. Then I think I would get more value by being at the cutting edge of certain spaces, certain industries, and seeing what A++ players are like when I work with them and earning their trust. I think that's a lot more valuable.

Sam Parr

Alright, last question: what's the best purchase over $2 and under $100? For me, it's gotta be this rowing machine that I bought for about $2,000. It's called Ergatta, and I'm obsessed with it. Or I bought a pretty nice Mercedes that's really fast. I drive it every morning and in the afternoon, and it just makes me happy. For under $100, I don't know... I have to think. What about you?

Shaan Puri

I would say this camera that I'm using right now is essential. When the whole world went remote, everything was done over video. I used to just use a MacBook Air, which makes you look like an actual prisoner of war in Uganda when you go on a video call. So, having a great camera is fantastic for the podcast, but it's also great for every single meeting. I feel like I'm putting my best foot forward, and I look great. I feel great. I think the other person treats you differently depending on how you show up. This one camera is like the equivalent of buying a closet full of $10,000 suits, but without any of the headache of actually wearing a suit. So, that was a tip.

Sam Parr

my under $100 is an aeropress I love my aeropress what does that love

Shaan Puri

that's a coffee thing

Sam Parr

It's a coffee thing. It makes individual cups of coffee. It is badass! I use it all the time.

Shaan Puri

Under $100. Okay, I got this for free from Jack Smith. Jack gave me his Theragun, and I *fucking* love the Theragun.

Sam Parr

he gave it to you

Shaan Puri

yeah he had like an old one or something like that he he he he got a new one or I don't know what I don't know why he was

Sam Parr

I had to go buy a knock off on amazon

Shaan Puri

Yeah, that's what I was gonna do. Actually, then he messaged me and was like, "Hey, I have one. I'll send it to you." I was like, "Oh, I'll buy it." He's like, "No, no, just put your address. I'll send it to you." I was like, "Jack, good guy." Now, I sent him a message and I was like, "Dude, I use this thing every night. I think of you every night because I love this gun. I love Jack for giving me this gun. This thing is amazing."

Sam Parr

Do you want an update on some numbers? Yeah, so this month, May is over now, but in May, we were doing a podcast push. We got about 630,000 listens, so that was the number we were at.

Shaan Puri

Put that in perspective: that's +439% month over month.

Sam Parr

So, that's a **40%** increase from April to May. The month before, from **March to April**, there was a **30%** increase, and the month before that was also a **30%** increase.

Shaan Puri

Right, so basically since you started saying "I'm gonna focus on growth," this thing started growing between 30-40% month over month. We've doubled in the time that you said it. I remember we were at 300-something thousand, then now we're at 600-something thousand downloads per month.

Sam Parr

Now, I don't think... I think June might be stable. The reason why is because I don't think people are going to be listening as much. I saw a distinct drop on Monday. Normally, we have 35,000 listeners on Mondays, but this Monday, we only had 18,000.

Shaan Puri

right

Sam Parr

So, I think we might hit a little **trough of sorrow**, but that's okay. We gotta know to expect that. We're going to keep trending, and I think that we're going to hit a million soon. Here are some more stats: our top rating is number 8 in iTunes and in Spotify in the business category, which is pretty good.

Shaan Puri

number 8 number 8 wow

Sam Parr

We are still at number 8 on Spotify right now, and for some reason, we are number 1 in Britain in the investing category. I have no idea why, but those are the updated numbers. I'm pretty proud, and I think you should be proud too. A few things that people loved: - Trung's thing was amazing - People loved your short ones - People loved...

Shaan Puri

you did one today on

Sam Parr

But that was June. Yeah, people liked it so far, I think. I'm gonna... I'm posting that on YouTube, but because it's like my story, I'm gonna put that on my YouTube. I think I deserve that, and I think that's gonna go viral. The numbers were good. We grew a lot. It's working.

Shaan Puri

I think the best thing you said was that there will be a plateau, whether it's this month or the next month. There's always a plateau, and I've talked about this before. It was one of the biggest lessons learned as somebody trying to build things: These plateaus happen. You should know... I used to think, "Oh, plateau means the world is... the sky is falling. This isn't working!" You know, *change everything*.

Sam Parr

no blah blah blah

Shaan Puri

And it's like, no. The dabbler quits and goes and does a different thing. The stressor gets freaked out by the plateau, thinks that they did something wrong, and takes it personally. The master says, "Oh, there you are! I thought you'd be here soon. Hello!" Then, they sort of dance with the plateaus and figure out how to get to the next level again. So, I think we're going to probably plateau somewhere here in the $600,000 to $700,000 per month before we shoot through the million per month.

Sam Parr

And I was working with my wife yesterday. She wants to launch a course. You've inspired her, Sean, and she was all excited to start this thing. She's been talking about this idea for months. Yesterday, she was halfway through recording the content and everything, and she said, "I feel horrible." I'm like, "Ah, you're there!"

Shaan Puri

right right

Sam Parr

You're there. I'm like at the 40% mark. Yes, yes. I talked to her and I was teasing her, but I was like, "Sarah, do you know why I'm good at what I do? It's because I know that this is normal, and I keep going." Do you know why most people are not who they want to be? It's because that's where they stop.

Shaan Puri

right

Sam Parr

But, what you have to know is that where you start high and then you get to low, when you're a little bit into it, you have to recognize that's very normal. That is incredibly normal. Then you keep going. Just like if you're exercising, you're like, "Oh, I'm starting to sweat. I'm starting to sweat." It's like, "Oh, okay, that's normal. That's part of it." Now you gotta keep going and keep going.

Shaan Puri

Right, right, right, exactly. If you put down the dumbbell every time your muscles started to burn, you would never grow. The burn is right where it starts; you know, the growth starts. So, I think for pre-launch, there are three points that everybody hits. The first time you hit them, you typically react pretty poorly. The first is the **overthinking phase**—that's before you get started. The second is the **"fuck this" phase**—the despair. This is when you think, "This is never gonna work. This sucks." The thing I was so excited about is now harder than I thought. Is this ever gonna be good? That's where your wife is at right now. Then there's the last bit, when you're at the **90% mark**. The perfectionist comes out and says, "No, no, no, no, no. It's not good enough yet. People aren't gonna like this. It's not gonna work." You're actually at the 90-95% mark, and the perfectionist wants to pull you back to 50% and say, "No, no, no, we need to do all this other stuff before we go out there." So, I think those three points are: overthinking, then the...

Shaan Puri

Of despair and then the perfectionist. They happen pre-launch of every project.

Sam Parr

Yes, so it's very normal. Let's talk about a couple of ideas, which I think you're going to find interesting. You've got some stuff to share.

Shaan Puri

Yeah, by the way, the live shows are happening. I guess by the time this gets released, they'll have already happened, so you know, whatever. But after this, I might have to cut this 10 minutes short because I gotta pack my bag. I'm coming to your house in Austin, and then we're going to Miami. It's going to be awesome!

Sam Parr

Can I just say that I think this is going to be a game changer for us? I think that we're going to see... it's going to be fun to see these excited people. You know what's crazy? Sean and I planned to do this like two weeks ago. We had been talking about it, and then one day he texted me, "Do you want to go to Miami for this time?" We were going to crash someone's event—I don't even know whose—but we just said, "Fuck it, yeah, it's done. It's settled." We did it over text, and then we got everyone rallied around it. I think about 100 people are going to come to the Austin one, and then I think we're at 500 for Miami. It wasn't until today that I thought... and we're speaking tomorrow. So, we're recording this on a Wednesday, but you're hearing it on Friday. It wasn't until just now, when I recorded for the podcast, that I told Dan what to do, but I was like, "Oh, I guess we have to figure out what we're going to say."

Shaan Puri

right

Sam Parr

What are we even going to talk about? So, I told Dan, "Dan, send out a Google form to all the attendees." Just have three things: what city you're in, what question you want answered, and what your first name is. Then we'll just see the trends of questions and maybe we can just rattle a little. I think you told me that idea, and we'll just rattle that off. But yeah, it's cool, man. You know, like, what if... this sounds so lame because it's just internet nerds like you and me, but what if, like, me, you, and Jack Butcher are coming now? What if, like, me, you, Jack, and Andrew, and all these losers, online nerds, went on tour? I'm pretty sure we could get like 10,000 people to come to each one.

Shaan Puri

Yeah, I think "Nerds on Tour" is a cool idea. I think we should just do it maybe, you know, early next year. We go "Nerds on Tour."

Sam Parr

that's actually a great idea it's isn't it funny how all these

Shaan Puri

the name is great too dan let's grab that domain nerds on tour let's see if that's available try it

MFM Listener

right now

Sam Parr

alright you wanna what's what do you got what do you got

Shaan Puri

Okay, so let's do some ideas. So, neighborhood 7-Elevens. What is the name?

Sam Parr

love neighborhood 7 elevens by the way

Shaan Puri

So, I don't know what kind of neighborhood you live in. I'll find out when I go to your house tonight. My neighborhood is kind of like... I'm in the suburbs. In this neighborhood, there might be about 100 homes, and there's like a gate at the front. It's sort of one of those neighborhoods where it takes you 7 minutes just to get from your house to the front of the neighborhood. You know, you want to go to the grocery store, which is only 2 miles away, but it takes you 7 minutes to get out of your neighborhood and then another 10 minutes to get there. That's 17 minutes round trip. There are just like 100 of these neighborhoods or 1,000 of these neighborhoods in the suburbs. Everywhere I go in the suburbs of California, it's like this. So, I started thinking about two ideas that came together as one in my head. The first was a startup we had talked about called "Fridge No More."

Sam Parr

we we talked when we talked about that it was like just starting I'm pretty sure it's a huge thing already

Shaan Puri

Well, they just raised $15 to $20 million or something like that. I love those guys, and I was considering investing. I just thought the value was a little high. But yeah, anyway, I think it's a really cool concept. Their concept is called "Fridge No More" because, in the future, you won't even need a fridge. Why? Because when you want something, you'll just push a button. You want, like, two ice creams? Great! They'll show up at your door in under 15 minutes. How do we do that? Well, we have these super small, kind of like cloud corner stores. We'll have about 100 in every city, and these cloud corner stores will be able to dispatch an order to you in a very small amount of time with a very low delivery fee. Gopuff does this on college campuses; that's like a multibillion-dollar company, I think. So I started thinking about the suburbs. The challenge is a little bit different. I thought, why don't neighborhoods just have a neighborhood corner store? Okay, well, how would that work? You told me about the vending machines thing in the last podcast, so it got me thinking.

Sam Parr

that was a good one right

Shaan Puri

That was a good one. As I was driving through my neighborhood, I thought, "Look at all these garages." Wouldn't someone want $500 a month to turn their garage, or part of their garage, into basically just fridges and freezers? Then, it could just get... you know, basically, you deliver to the neighborhood garage. That's the neighborhood corner store for all the bulk wholesale goods. You know, your water, all your drinks, your sodas, your snacks, and your ice creams or whatever. In the neighborhood, you would just have it where you could order, and either you go pick it up out of that garage, or some kid in the neighborhood can just pick up the order and make $5 for taking it from one part of the neighborhood to the other to bring it to you. The key would be the convenience and speed of this service, so you could get something delivered to you in under 10 minutes. So basically, the idea is to take the concept of 7-Eleven but use the sharing economy. Put a mini 7-Eleven inside of garages in all these suburban neighborhoods. What do you think of this idea?

Sam Parr

I've got strong feelings about updates, so let me get to it. The sharing economy really gained popularity with Airbnb and Uber. I remember in 2013, in the same way that all the older school magazines were talking about crypto, it was all about the sharing economy. There was a sharing economy for everything back in 2013 and 2014, and it was all we talked about. I've looked at the data and I've tried to figure all this out. I am almost positive that the sharing economy only works for like two or three things: Uber and driving, Airbnb and home rentals, and maybe that's it. I've seen sharing economy concepts pitched to me, like the sharing economy for utilities or tools. Have you ever seen that? I just got pitched on this the other day, and I can never get on board with it.

Shaan Puri

Your growth... This idea has been around and recycled like a trillion times. Like, "Hey, why do I have to buy a drill? My neighbor has a drill. You know, I just want to use it once. Why don't I just rent the drill on demand locally?" That idea...

Sam Parr

Never works, or at least it hasn't ever. There's probably a reason why it hasn't. There are a bunch of these sharing economy things. One was like, you go to someone's home and you cook dinner with them, or it's a private cooking lesson, you know? Even Airbnb experiences don't really work that well as a business. It works as a nice little add-on thing for them, but that's not where their value is. I've always thought that the sharing economy for most things is a horrible idea. I used to share an office when I first started my company. It was me, Ceeva, and one other company. I think they were called Rooster or something. They were trying to get people to make it like storage, so they wanted people to rent storage in other people's garages. I would hear these guys on their phone, constantly trying to get users. They had zero users, and I heard them trying to get user one, user two... I heard the whole thing. They would walk around on the phone. It was so hard to convince anyone, and when they did convince someone, it never worked. So in terms of sharing economy stuff and this idea, I almost always default to, "I don't know, that seems really difficult." Do you agree?

Shaan Puri

I don't agree with... okay, I do agree that it's difficult. But like on the storage one, for people who don't know, there was a batch of startups all trying to do this. It was, "Hey, Airbnb lets you rent out the excess space in your bedrooms or your house. Why don't we let you rent out excess space in your garage?" So, Omni started this way. They ended up shutting down after raising a bunch of money. Clutter tried to do the same thing. Clutter had changed, I believe they've made it, but maybe they pivoted. I don't know what it's...

Sam Parr

now just a normal ass like we come pick up your stuff and store it in a warehouse

Shaan Puri

They store it in warehouses. Okay, so yeah, I don't know what went wrong there, but that was one that I would believe could work. Right? Because if I have extra space... and these things don't get used very much, so they sort of just stay in storage for...

Sam Parr

For the most part, there's one reason why... and I've thought about this: **convenience**. It's all about convenience. So it's the convenience that has to pay for itself. Having someone stay in my house is relatively inconvenient, but I can make like $3,000 a month pretty consistently, right?

Shaan Puri

okay yeah so it's not about convenience there it's about money

Sam Parr

Well, no, it's a balance. It's my convenience at a price. Now, having someone store stuff in my garage for $80 a month, which is how much it costs to store things at a normal storage unit, that's just not worth it. I don't think it's worth it to me. It's a pain in the ass, and it's way too inconvenient.

Shaan Puri

Right, yeah. So, I think there is, you know, this trade-off. I would also say that a lot of people merge these ideas together. For example, the **sharing economy**—what does it mean? It means taking excess resources that are unutilized and getting them to be utilized. Right? Like **Airbnb**—excess space, getting it to be utilized. Then there's the **gig economy**. The gig economy is more like **Uber**—you push a button, and the guy's going to come pick you up. It's not so much about excess resources because that guy wasn't just driving by; he made this his job. So then people started trying to do that with things like masseuses, right? You push a button, and a masseuse will come to your house. You know, like pedicures at your house or whatever random service. Then there's the **creator economy**, which is a totally different thing altogether. People started using these words pretty interchangeably, and I think that doesn't work. In general, almost all of these are two-sided marketplaces, which are just really hard to do. It's really hard to start a two-sided marketplace, and when you do, the prize is $1,000,000,000 in your pocket. So, you know, it shouldn't be that easy. But I agree with you that this would probably either not work or look like a real pain in the ass to do.

Sam Parr

but good idea sean

Shaan Puri

Yeah, but it's an interesting idea in the sense that I think it would be pretty game-changing in terms of convenience. It would be essentially like a cold vending machine inside of neighborhoods, right? Like, you know, a super vending machine inside of neighborhoods. If you could get it to work, you now have every sort of suburban neighborhood to spread into. A lot of stuff is done in cities partly because the people who build startups tend to live in cities, not in the suburbs. So, a lot of things work in the cities because that's where they live; that's what they know. Then, people are really densely packed into one area, and it's hard to get things to work at a neighborhood level.

Sam Parr

You ever been to a truck stop where they have like just a slab of concrete with benches and like 10 different vending machines all right there? But just like an awning and... We could just do that. Let's just do that in the 'burbs [suburbs]. We're just gonna put that slab, put all those vending machines right in there.

Shaan Puri

Well, that's the thing. The question is, what would you sacrifice one home for? Right? Because you need the space. So either it's got to go inside of a home, right? In the garage, in the backyard, or inside the house. Or it has to be so valuable that you could justify just buying one of the homes and converting it into some kind of commerce, basically for the neighborhood, and getting the permits to do it. Which is, you know, once we start talking permits, it's time to change ideas. Okay, I got another suburban idea for you. So, the new golf... My buddy Ben got invited to go play in this pickup game, this pickup basketball game, and he didn't want to turn it down because it was like...

Sam Parr

like ballers yeah

Shaan Puri

it was a bunch of ballers that were like gonna go play there it was like basic

Sam Parr

baller not real ballers

MFM Listener

well

Shaan Puri

Half were actual, like, you know, good ballers. You know, people who are like, "This guy's gonna get drafted this year," or "This guy trains NBA players," whatever.

Sam Parr

what the fuck isn't ben like a little guy

Shaan Puri

Yeah, but we met the guy who's the trainer for the NBA players. This guy Alex, and I forgot his company name last time, so I'll shout it out this time: **Through the Lens**. He's the one building the master class for athletes. So anyway, Alex was organizing this game and he was like, "Hey, you wanna come play in this? I know you're in New York also, so come by." If you're an NBA fan, you always see on Instagram all the NBA players in the summer go play in this one gym. It's like... it's in an apartment building, so it's like a...

Sam Parr

private gym my my friend used to live in that building

Shaan Puri

like sky or something I don't know what it's called but it's like yeah

Sam Parr

in new york

Shaan Puri

Yeah, it's like this exclusive thing. It would be like LeBron, Carmelo, and Kevin Durant all playing in this little gym, whatever. So the guy was like, "Hey, we're gonna go play tomorrow in that gym. You wanna come?" He was like, "Fuck yeah! Alright, who's there?" And it's like a bunch of, you know, I don't know, billionaires' children and wannabe NBA players or whatever. So I went and played, and I was like, "How was it?" He was like, "Oh, it was good, but like, you know, a) I suck and b)..."

Sam Parr

you know I'm just trying

Shaan Puri

Not to get hurt, right? Like, he's like, "Once you know you're 30, you got..." He's like, "I just had a kid. I just can't afford to get hurt." And I'm not playing regularly, so, you know, I just kind of played it easy, I guess, which is kind of lame, but that was the truth. I said, "Well, you know, same here. I basically played basketball as my favorite thing to do until I was like 27. Since then, I've just been like, well, the odds of me spraining an ankle or spraining a knee are just too high. I can't actually play the sport anymore properly." So I kind of opted out. I started thinking about how at every age, there's a different sport that's right for you. In your twenties and thirties, it could be something like basketball or soccer. In your forties, there aren't many 45-year-old pickup basketball players out there. There's always, you know, maybe the one old dude who's barely moving, but for the most part, you need to graduate to another sport that matches your life athleticism. So it might be tennis, and then a little bit older, it might be golf. And then, as you get even older, I think the sort of end sport is basically just playing poker. You can do that in a wheelchair, and it's like the last thing you can do as some kind of form of sport or competition. So, anyways, it got me thinking, like, okay, if I'm about to shift into the tennis phase, okay, cool, fine.

Sam Parr

pickleball bro that's the one

Shaan Puri

So then I started thinking about pickleball because I was like, "What is pickleball?" Pickleball is mini tennis that is... kinda the best of tennis, but it's also easier on the body. Right? Am I right about pickleball? I haven't played, but that's what I see. It's like... you don't have to run as much.

Sam Parr

no I would say it's as hard on the body but it's like it requires close to no skill

Shaan Puri

Right, so, okay, the skill cap might be different, but I also think there's less running around and jumping. Just... sure.

Sam Parr

so like anyone can do it

Shaan Puri

Right, so it's more accessible. That's kind of the... And then I was thinking about golf because I think once you hit, yeah, I don't know, 50+, it seems like golf is the major sport for that age. Golf is like the least accessible thing, right? It's super expensive, it takes the whole day, and it's hard as shit to even be decent at golf. So I'm like, how is it? It's amazing to me that this even works, right? Like, it's kind of mind-blowing that golf even has any popularity.

Sam Parr

so what's the. What's the new one

Shaan Puri

what is the new golf who is the new one

Sam Parr

so can I tell you what I've been using

Shaan Puri

yeah what what are you been doing

Sam Parr

When I have friends in town, or you, and I won't have enough time—maybe we will tomorrow—but like, I had a friend named Brennan come over. Whenever people visit, I say, "5:00 PM Thursday or whatever, come to my house and wear tennis shoes." I've bought tons and tons of wraps, so when they get there, I throw them hand wraps and say, "We're gonna box today." I throw them their gear, and we wrap up our hands. I go, "Alright, we're gonna warm up with some mitts. I'll show you how to punch." We do that, and then I say, "Here's an extra mouth guard." I lead them, and we don't hit hard. Yeah, but like, if they want, every once in a while, I won't hit them hard in the face, but I'll get in there and then I'll pop them really hard in the stomach just so they can feel alive.

Shaan Puri

a little yeah if you feel what it's like to be alive

Sam Parr

And then I'll let them punch me. I had a guy chip my tooth the other day, and it's been the greatest bonding experience. I've done it with men, women, everyone. With the women, I'm like, "Well, so pop me real hard," and I'll hit her in the stomach. It's awesome, man. It is awesome. I have loved doing this with boxing. It brings you together, it makes you feel alive, and it's a fun sport because we could do it in my garage. You normally don't box because it's embarrassing to try that in front of a bunch of people. Oh yeah.

Shaan Puri

your thing's been my killed yeah

Sam Parr

Yeah, and I know we're not gonna... like, they'll see me. I go, "Put your hands up, watch." And I like my moves slow, slow. I'll just kind of tap them. I'm like, "Look, that's all we're doing. We're just gonna barely touch each other."

Shaan Puri

Yeah, so I think in the thirties, maybe even forties, boxing works. I think beyond that, boxing also doesn't work for obvious reasons. So, I think you're doing the thing where you basically shift in age and shift in sport. I've seen, like, I think I've talked about this once before, but people have taken... So, I was talking to my friend Sahil, this guy Sahil Bloom. People might have seen him on Twitter; he's got a big following now. We were eating, and he was talking about how he used to be a baseball player at Stanford. He was a pitcher, and he's like, "You know, I got hurt. That kind of ended my pro aspirations." Then it was sort of like, "Well, this sport I've dedicated myself to forever is pretty much useless to me at this point." Right? Like, I will never play pickup baseball. What am I gonna do? Go find nine friends on one side and nine on the other side that all like baseball?

Sam Parr

pain in the ass

Shaan Puri

We all have four hours to kill, and you know, we have the right skills where we can pitch and catch. Most people can't even sit in the catcher's squat. It's true; you're never going to play baseball again. Baseball is sort of the worst access sport at an early age. I think golf is the worst one at a later age. If somebody could take the characteristics that make golf work and create their version of pickleball, I think you'd own a pretty valuable asset. I'm on the lookout to see what this next one is because I have several friends who didn't invent pickleball, but when it started to get popular, they built pickleball businesses. Some, you know, I can't say their names because they've literally asked me not to. One of them did equipment; they built an Amazon FBA business selling pickleball stuff. They were able to rank at the top because, at the time, pickleball wasn't that competitive, but it got more and more popular over time. Then other people started leagues, and there are others, like Barstool, doing something on the media side. I don't know; there are a bunch of different ways you can ride these waves of new sports. What makes golf work is that it's outdoors. It's a chill sport, so it doesn't require running, jumping, or squatting. Old guys can swing the club too. All the bad parts would have to change. You'd need to find a way to make it a 60-minute or 90-minute experience. Golf is cool because you can do it by yourself, with one other person, or with four people. That's good; I'd keep that. You wouldn't want it to be where you need thousands of dollars of equipment just to get started or have to pay to do this thing. You'd also want it to be where a beginner can feel some sort of success and not just... like I went to a golf course.

Sam Parr

what about spike ball

Shaan Puri

Too athletic, dude. You're still thinking like you have athleticism. You gotta think about yourself 30 years from now. You got a bum hip. The testosterone that you've been taking for 30 years has now wiped you out. You know, you're going to be in a different phase. You're going to need a different sport at that time. I think it's gotta feel like...

Sam Parr

I just go for walks

Shaan Puri

Yeah, but the walks don't have the thing that boxing gives you, where you get to scratch the competitive itch. You get to feel alive; you can still feel like you're doing something. Walking is sort of like the most basic... I think you've got to take shuffleboard, that shuffleboard level of movement, and make it an outdoor activity. I don't know, what's that one sport that old people play that's like bocce? Bocce... bocce. Well, I don't know what bocce ball is; maybe this is bocce ball that I'm describing. But I feel like maybe something like bocce ball is what's going to pick up.

Sam Parr

so we need to go to questions I think

Shaan Puri

you're not a fan of the new golf

Sam Parr

I'm not a fan of the new golf

Shaan Puri

Dude, I'm telling you, it's gonna happen. You're gonna see the sport rise in popularity amongst older people, and you'll be like, "Fuck, Sean was right!" There was an appetite for a sport for older people that's not called golf.

Sam Parr

Maybe, but I can't... it's just such an impossible thing to predict. I mean, I would be better at predicting which company's going to be a billion-dollar company than which sport is going to be [successful]. Who would have thought a sport named pickleball was going to be sick?

Shaan Puri

Yeah, I don't know. I would have put my money on Slamball, but you know, just to show what I know. Dan, do we have... what's it called? Do we get the merch? So, we have stickers and we have shirts for the tour.

MFM Listener

Yep, we got stickers, we got shirts, we got hoodies, and then my first business in college was making buttons. So, I got some buttons for you guys too.

Shaan Puri

do you have the shirts with you

MFM Listener

I don't they got shipped out yesterday they are arriving tomorrow into miami

Shaan Puri

okay great so austin austin no shirts miami shirts

MFM Listener

everything is going to miami yep

Sam Parr

okay and what about

Shaan Puri

and what who's the guy who designed the shirts let's give that guy a shout out to

MFM Listener

yeah let me pull it up dustin is his first name

Shaan Puri

and he's like he he's like a creative agency or like a kind of a design company or something

MFM Listener

yeah he's got a creative agency

Shaan Puri

he was

MFM Listener

working on las vegas

Shaan Puri

I've tweeted out, you know, "Hey, give us some designs. We'll hook you up." His designs were by far the most favorited or liked by people who said, "Pick this one. These are the winners."

MFM Listener

Yeah, Dustin Iannotti. He's got an agency out in Las Vegas called **Artisans on Fire**.

Shaan Puri

Artisans on fire! Okay, sweet. Yeah, Artisan on Fire, go check that out. He made the post-economic shirt that's going to fly off the shelves. Are we giving these away or are we charging for them? I didn't hear the end result.

MFM Listener

I got square set up so you guys tell me

Sam Parr

alright we'll just head over down there

MFM Listener

alright can I hear one funny observation

Sam Parr

yeah yeah

MFM Listener

So, I've been listening to you guys for like a year now, always on one and a half times speed. One of the weirdest things is having to listen to you guys in real time.

Sam Parr

I've heard that before

MFM Listener

yeah sean sounds like he's a couple drinks in

Shaan Puri

I can't believe that I talk faster than Sam. I feel like I'm... I think we both talk faster due to nervous energy.

MFM Listener

well you talk really fast at 1 and a half x

Shaan Puri

Yeah, that's fair. I can't believe people listen to this on speed. This doesn't make sense to me.

Sam Parr

alright I gotta go I'll talk to you soon