The TikTok strategy that’s printing MILLIONS right now… (ft. Rob The Bank)

Robert Oliver

The point of this conversation is that this is a gold rush, and who knows how often these come around.

Shaan Puri

How much revenue will your brands do using this TikTok model this year? A hundred million plus? So, five brands are going to do over a hundred million this year, and this is the playbook you're running across all of them. Yeah, so what's an example of...?

Robert Oliver

One of these videos, I think this video made this kid close to $50,000 from a single video.

Shaan Puri

What you said in this video will make people millions of dollars if all they did was just try to act on it.

Robert Oliver

Millions are being printed on TikTok Shop.

Shaan Puri

What are the mistakes people make? My advice is...

Robert Oliver

Be an observer, not a consumer. That's the best thing you can do.

Shaan Puri

Let's brainstorm a hundred million dollar TikTok brand. Yeah, I'm going to...

Robert Oliver

Show you something that the world was never gonna see, but I'm going to show how serious I take this. Alright, ready? Has anyone ever worn a cutoff like this before?

Shaan Puri

The first one to bring the gun show down to them.

Robert Oliver

So, I was just thinking... I've watched a lot of these and I've seen a lot of guests. I feel like I'm different in a lot of ways, so I might as well visually capture that, you know? Make a statement.

Shaan Puri

You were early to the Amazon trend, mhmm. You took $5,000 and turned it into a $30,000,000 company. You sold it, and what you told me was basically that this now is the first and biggest thing you've seen since that Amazon opportunity. Is that right? It is. It is. And I've looked for these; I didn't appreciate it.

Robert Oliver

In the Amazon era, I look for these moments in time where you don't need a ton of startup capital. You don't need to raise money, and you can basically just find something that works—a system, a platform. Latch onto that and create something of substantial enterprise value. TikTok represents that. So, what I...

Shaan Puri

I want to go through the big idea. Why should people care about TikTok right now? What do you see as the big opportunity? Specifically, what are some examples of people that are crushing it? How are they crushing it? What's the playbook? And then, where are the opportunities that you see that are still open that anyone could go do? So that's my game plan.

Robert Oliver

Absolutely. So, top of the funnel here, fundamentally, people don't appreciate what's actually happening with TikTok. Shop is a component of that; that's the center of their model. But think about even restaurants. Think about Google. Think about Facebook (Meta) ads. All of these things represent a paradigm shift. A good example: my now ex-wife and I went to Tokyo about a year and a half ago. If we had gone five years ago, she would have gone to Google to search for restaurants or used Yelp. Now, she goes on TikTok and wants to visually see what's going on. Shopping is turning more live. All of these things are fundamentally changing. Even the creators of this last generation, the influencers, are coming up off short-form content. We all know how important clipping and all of that stuff is.

Shaan Puri

The way I read it, 30% of Gen Z's primary news source is TikTok. Yep. And then the same thing goes for their primary search engine. In my company, we did a little poll. We were trying to work on our Google search results.

Robert Oliver

Yep.

Shaan Puri

I was asking our employees, "So when you Google for this, what do you do?" They replied, "I don't really Google for that. I just go to TikTok and type in the name. Then whatever comes up on TikTok is what I use."

Robert Oliver

Yep.

Shaan Puri

That blew my mind because I wasn't using TikTok as a search engine.

Robert Oliver

Yep, and that's the paradigm shift. That's the opportunity because it's so early. I don't like the word "gamifiable," but when you think through these new models and how information is being shared, that's where the brands of the future are being created. That's where the artists of the future are being created. That's where fashion design is all happening—through this new means of distribution.

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Shaan Puri

By the way, this happens in everything. So, I don't know if you've ever heard the story of why Obama was so successful during his first presidential run. Do you know the story?

Robert Oliver

Just tapping into social media and all that.

Shaan Puri

It was kind of social media, but he got this big movement going for two reasons. One, he was one of the first presidents to build a huge email list at the time. The people who were running were doing fundraisers, they were doing TV, they were doing traditional interviews, but they weren't building an email list. He built a giant email machine before anybody else. Then he started using social media on top of that. He basically hired people. Trump did the same thing when he won in 2016. Even this year, when he won, he raised way less money than his opponent. The first time, he raised way less than Hillary, and this time, way less than Kamala/Biden. In both cases, it was because he was using a different marketing strategy. His was all Facebook and online, while the others were doing all traditional TV buys, commercials, stuff like that. So when you see this, like you said, paradigm shift, it's like the new marketing opportunity. If you can pounce on that, that's where you can get rich. Can you quickly just say what you saw in Amazon and when that was? Back in 2014 or so?

Robert Oliver

Yeah, and I'll go from that to now, like the numbers we're seeing, the difference in terms of like ROAS (Return on Ad Spend), right? It's challenging for people because it's happening so fast. I think a lot of people still think that, you know, digital marketing is the new paradigm, and actually, it's like all the way over here now. Amazon's a great example. I remember seeing brands; billboards were a huge strategy back then. I started by working with brands; that's how I got my start, as a consultant helping them sell on Amazon. I'm going, "Guys, you're spending $50,000 on a billboard campaign, and when you give me $5 to spend on Amazon, you're having trouble tracking that." But right here, we're making $5 for every dollar spent. And this is me as a 22-year-old kid. They're like, "No, this is the way it is," or like, "You know, we're going to double the bodybuilding.com needs these," or "GNC needs these." By the time I finally realized, it probably took me like a year. I'm going, "These guys are slow."

Shaan Puri

At first, you think you're dumb. Eventually, you realize they're dumb. You're like, "Yo, I keep putting a dollar into this magic money machine and $5 are coming out."

Robert Oliver

is a

Shaan Puri

5x

Robert Oliver

This is cool.

Shaan Puri

ROAS, for people who don't know, is **Return on Ad Spend**. It measures how many dollars I get back in revenue for every dollar I spend on marketing. With TV and billboards, you don't really know. The famous advertising saying is, "Half of our advertising doesn't work." The problem is, we just don't know which half. For a while, CMOs didn't mind that because if you can't track it, you can't be held accountable. But then Facebook and all these other platforms came along, and all of a sudden, for every dollar you put in, you get a verified amount of how much revenue you're generating from it. Now you're held accountable, but that also presents an opportunity.

Robert Oliver

Yep.

Shaan Puri

Just for a kid like you, you're like, "Alright, if this works, it's inarguable. This is working, and I'm getting 5x return on my money."

Robert Oliver

And so now what we're seeing, over time, is that it compresses. Right? Enough guys like me do podcasts like this. Facebook ads are great, goddamn podcasting, but it shrinks the margin. So, like, you look at Amazon now, which has been my... you know, I've been doing ads on there for ten years now. A one to one and a half ROAS (Return on Ad Spend) is like good in a hot category, which is not profitable. But you're, you know, that's where you're like, "Okay, repeat customers, building the brand." You have that modeled as like that was the last couple of years. And then TikTok comes along, and that organic algorithm is so damn good. This is where now it almost goes back to the billboard era of like, actually tracking becomes a little more difficult. But we're seeing just money spent on this system, which we can get into a little bit later. This system is like seven to eight times minimum return versus a one times ROAS. And upwards of, like, when I first did this with, you know, Jimmy eighteen months ago, it was like 30 times. You know? And then the question was, "How can we spend more?"

Shaan Puri

I mean, it's like **PEDs for marketing**, right? It's like, if you're going to get... I can use this channel that not everybody understands, this playbook that not everybody understands, and get **7x**. Or I go to Facebook and Amazon, I get **1x** or **1.5x**. I mean, that's like **cheat codes** in the game of business. Can you give people a sense of how much revenue your brands will do using this TikTok model this year?

Robert Oliver

So, directly attributable to TikTok Shop, we modeled probably around $40 million. Overall, the halo effect of all that is over $100 million.

Shaan Puri

So, your brands... which is what? You have three or four, roughly?

Robert Oliver

Or how?

Shaan Puri

How many are you running right now?

Robert Oliver

Five that I either own, you know, the majority of or have a meaningful stake in.

Shaan Puri

Yeah, mhmm. So, five brands are going to do over a hundred million this year, and this is the playbook you're running across all of them.

Robert Oliver

Yep, yep, and by...

Shaan Puri

The way... how old are these brands?

Robert Oliver

One or two years old, it's actually unreal. I don't want to say things stress or scare me at this point, but it's one of those things where it's like, "Alright, we gotta see this through." The essence of this conversation is that this is a gold rush, and who knows how often these come around, right? I feel like I'm getting to go back to my twenty-two-year-old self and saying, "Hey, this is going to be really big. You know, focus right now, do the right things, execute." And that's where we're at.

Shaan Puri

Is that a conversation you had with yourself back when you were 22 and the Amazon gold rush was happening?

Robert Oliver

I took it really seriously, but you don't know what you don't know, right? I just didn't appreciate... like, who knew private equity was going to come in and value all these brands? And who knew that Amazon was going to grow to that extent? It was still kind of a discount site when I was first on there. That's why brands didn't want to do it.

Shaan Puri

You were in the supplements category, and you said the way the supplement game worked was you had GNC or these retail stores. If you wanted to win in supplements, you had to win in retail. Mhm. And then you're like, Amazon came around and changed the game because now you have this online retailer. Suddenly, new supplement brands could win there where you couldn't get on the shelf at GNC. Exactly.

Robert Oliver

And you.

Shaan Puri

Were you saying that now the same thing is happening to Amazon? Basically, there's a new one coming in and sweeping the rug, creating the opportunity where maybe you weren't going to win on Amazon, but now you can win in this new way. Is that right? Did I find that right?

Robert Oliver

Exactly right. It's these continual paradigm shifts. Like Amazon, there was this brand, BPI Sports, who was number one in GNC. Then I just remember seeing that flip where Amazon all of a sudden was like 50% of their revenue. They didn't focus on Amazon, and then there were brands passing them up. So, the brands of the future were born on that digital platform. There are Facebook ads and other digital means, but we'll call it the e-commerce era. Now it's happening again with the short-form discovery era. So, it's much less about what does your website look like or this and that. It's like, how are you optimizing for this means of information dissemination?

Shaan Puri

And you know, I think when most people say "gold rush," if you call 10 things a gold rush, then what's really a gold rush? But I feel like you genuinely believe it. You're like, "Yo, I'm not fucking around. I'm serious right now. There is a window where something can happen." Could you make your pitch, not to me, but to the next Rob, who is 23, 24, 25, or even 30 years old? It doesn't matter what age. Just be like, "Yo, take this seriously." You can even just direct a camera. What's your message to that person about this opportunity?

Robert Oliver

I'm gonna hijack your friend here. How many businesses a day do you think Ben looks at? Just in general, 10 to 15 a day. Yeah, a day. So he's constantly looking at opportunities. He sent me a text and he goes, "Oh, this TikTok thing really does seem to be the best opportunity to go from like no net worth to like $1 to $5 million with no skills, no background, no tech, whatever." When he sent me that, because obviously I accept my opinion is gonna be biased—I do this every day—but when Ben sent me that, I was like, "Oh, okay, yeah, no, this is for real." Then you look at our own, you know, like we're doing this. Our company growth, even though we have skills and we've been doing this a while, to go from zero to, you know, a $100+ million run rate is actually insane. We're not raising; we're profitable—like super profitable.

Shaan Puri

Yeah, you've bootstrapped these.

Robert Oliver

Right.

Shaan Puri

I'm a small investor owner, but you didn't take our money for the money. You just... no.

Robert Oliver

We love you. You just...

Shaan Puri

Want you just want us to be on board. Alright, so let's stop teasing. What are the brands like? Tell me some stories. I don't live in this world; you do. Tell me some stories of some brands that are crushing it. What are some examples that make this real?

Robert Oliver

One that I think we could start with is this company, Roost Research. This guy had a little Amazon experience; he's 27, and this is like a nine-figure play. I just couldn't be more excited for him. So, I'm hyping it up here, but he reached out to me two and a half years ago, before TikTok had even taken off. He said, "Hey, I'm thinking about starting a supplement brand on Amazon." He picked the right category; he recognized that longevity is getting bigger. He gets on Amazon, and he's doing alright. Then TikTok comes around, and he pours all in on it. Two years later, I believe this month, he'll do north of $15,000,000 between all online sales this month.

Shaan Puri

Is the product... what do they do? Is it something like research?

Robert Oliver

NAD root research... It's that, you know, every couple of years a new supplement category comes along that might have long-term staying power. Collagen was the last huge one, you know? A $4,000,000,000 exit for Vital Proteins to Nestlé, and he's betting on that. Then he went all in, all bootstrapped, no raised money—not even like he hasn't revamped the brand yet. If you go look at it, you're like, "No, this looks a little like... you know, it doesn't look like a multi-hundred million dollar thing." But that's what he's building. So I'd say that one.

Shaan Puri

So, he spotted the health trend early... early enough, not like the first guy, but early enough. He built a good product in that space. You said he went all in on TikTok. You know, figured out TikTok. What did he actually do to make it work on TikTok?

Robert Oliver

He tapped into this creator model. So, should we go into detail on that?

Shaan Puri

The playbook.

Robert Oliver

Yeah.

Shaan Puri

If I have all these ideas, they have a playbook.

Robert Oliver

Yeah, what's the TikTok playbook? So, it's important to preface it with this: everyone is used to YouTube and Instagram, where your followers matter. For example, if you have an Instagram following of a million people, that's valuable. TikTok shattered that. You have to look at everything through the lens of views. If we start a brand new TikTok account together, we could post a video of dancing in the street, and that could get 10,000,000 views. That's the center of this whole model. Swinging at bat, screw your brand page. For instance, Roost doesn't have a brand page. They might run ads, but the key part of the model is how many people we can get creating product-specific content for the brand.

Shaan Puri

Like an army. Instead of one influencer becoming Kim Kardashian or The Rock, or whatever, instead of saying, "I will become famous to get a lot of followers and then sell products," what you're saying is the new model is an army of people who need to create content. Then, it's just the content that wins. One of those pieces of content needs to pop in order for this to work.

Robert Oliver

Yep, is that it? Yeah, exactly. The first big use case of this before the product was Andrew Tate. Like, can we say that name? That's how he broke the internet, not even intentionally. He had affiliates making Tate content, right? So he's not posting on TikTok, but he has 500 hungry little minions who love him.

Shaan Puri

And he was paying them, or they were just inspired? What was going on?

Robert Oliver

Yeah, there was an affiliate commission back to make more videos for him. So, like, you could get people paying $50 a month by making this content.

Shaan Puri

He created basically like a content MLM almost.

Robert Oliver

Pretty much, yeah. No, exactly.

Shaan Puri

So, he... what was his? I mean, that's kind of genius of him to do that because no other... you know, we were content creators, podcasters, whatever. But if we created content, we just put it on our channel. Yep, and it was just us, or like we would hire people to create clips for us. But on our one channel, what he did was different. He was like, "Yo, here's a bunch of raw material. Run it. You figure out how to go viral, and if you do, I'll pay you per view." What was he... what was he doing?

Robert Oliver

Per sign-up, they got back to the community that would teach you how to do that. So, I mean, the end result was the most Googled man on the planet, right? Now you see that everywhere. Streamers like Adin Ross and those guys spend six figures a month paying on a CPM metric, paying people to chop up their streams and put it out on TikTok. I do that with my stuff too. Someone from my team will chop this up, and you might see it, right? Swings at bat. So now, take that.

Shaan Puri

Same idea. When you say "my team," do you literally mean like my employees, or are you saying, "I just like both"? We're trying to hit it.

Robert Oliver

From every way, and brands are too. This is the fundamental thing: how can you get as many good quality swings at bat as humanly possible? Sometimes it's freelance people, and then sometimes it's internally. It's a little harder on Shop, so beautiful because the model itself incentivizes it without us having to change hands. You know, like internally I'm trying to figure out metrics, like you know, see all that, right? Whereas if you have talented creators, they just go and that was taste too. It worked; it fed itself. The economics fed itself, so Shop feeds itself.

Shaan Puri

So, just to explain, instead of just sending it to famous people, influencers, or random people, what happened was certain individuals realized, "Oh shit, I can make money doing this." So, instead of just doing it once, they thought, "What if I made five videos a day? What if I started picking brands that I thought would perform well?" They started making $500 a month and then $5,000 a month. You have creators that make... how much does the most successful creators make per month? Just creators. They don't own the brand, they don't buy inventory, and they don't have to run the operations. They're just making TikToks.

Robert Oliver

What do you think? What do you think?

Shaan Puri

I think I've heard that there are 20-year-olds who are able to make a hundred grand a month.

Robert Oliver

Yeah, like... a lot. And way more than you'd think. I was at an event for one of our groups that I own a little piece of, and we've had 27 people make over $100,000 in a month as freelance creators. The important part is these are not influencers. Like, Jacqueline, I have a YouTube video with her. She was working as a server eight months ago, making $20 an hour, and she made like $180,000 last month.

Shaan Puri

And what they did, eight months ago, was go into the lab. They were basically like, "Alright, I have to figure out what content I can create that will make this product interesting and appealing to other people." Then they started making like thirty, forty, or fifty videos a month. Most of them don't do well, but a few of them start doing well. They're studying and learning, "Oh, if I do this hook that grabs people, but it's not converting, okay, what can make it convert better?" Yep, and they're just specializing in the craft of short-form content. It's not too dissimilar from David Ogilvy in the past, figuring out how to do print ads that are going to convert. All the great marketers in the past, instead of going to an ad agency, are now going to these creator armies where young people are specializing in how to create short-form content for direct response.

Robert Oliver

Marketing... yeah, who? This means that's exactly what it is. There are varying degrees of it. There's the innovators who can sit down with the algorithm. The algorithm—you have to capture attention, you have to keep them watching, and then you need something to convert. Then there's the second wave of that, where one of the innovators hits what works. After that, there are literally 500 kids that are going to copy that same idea, right? They only make 20% of it. But then what does that do for the brand? All of a sudden, you have all these videos going nuclear. I bet you Russo's... show me a video.

Shaan Puri

So, what's an example of...?

Robert Oliver

One of these videos... this is a great one. I think this video, last I checked, had made this kid close to $50,000 from a single video. He paired, you know, a modern thing—Trump getting elected—with conspiracy and all this... whatever. So I...

TikTok

Just got into the office one day ago, and it's already going after one of the most predatory industries in the world. Watch this.

Robert Oliver

We have a public health system that does.

Shaan Puri

But that was...

Robert Oliver

The hook.

Shaan Puri

So, the hook was first. He's writing about the news trend, Trump. Uh-huh. Instead of saying, "Hey, I have a product I'd like to tell you about," no, no, no. He starts by talking about Trump, and then he has this curiosity. What would you call it?

Robert Oliver

That... it's that information gap, right? Where all of a sudden he went after one of the biggest industries in the world. What did he do? Which one? Uh-huh.

Shaan Puri

What's that industry, and what did he do?

Robert Oliver

And then you hear it in the background. It's that mysterious... it's the trending sound, you know?

TikTok

Change starting today. But you know what's crazy? His buddy Donald White was coming at... by.

Shaan Puri

The way, even how raw this is, he's taking a video of like an Android phone. Yeah, so if you don't think this is an advertisement...

Robert Oliver

No, exactly. Everything nowadays is shifting to that just raw, organic content. You don't want to feel like an influencer is selling you something, and that's not what he is. You know, this is like a random dude telling you a story. Alright, okay. What’s he... you put the raw materials back in. I guess I gave ahead a little bit here, but you know, it's the Trump things that you're doing on...

Shaan Puri

Got Dana White more social proof.

TikTok

Yep, interesting because around the same time, they were trying to silence this doctor for giving...

Robert Oliver

Us is.

Shaan Puri

This is the scientist now. So, the... yeah.

Robert Oliver

Yeah, Berg is another famous scientist. So, they're building... he's building this case for something.

Shaan Puri

Still hasn't told you about the product, right?

Robert Oliver

Problem that.

TikTok

Oil of oregano is the absolute best remedy for that. It's antimicrobial, antibacterial, antifungal, anti-candida, antiviral, anti-parasitic, and anti-mold.

TikTok

Now, I did some research and not only is oil of oregano so...

Robert Oliver

Really, you get the idea. Yeah, and then he still hasn't sold you. He's building this idea of oil of oregano, and then at the end, I believe he...

TikTok

But I've been taking two of these pearls, and he's going to feel like I'm coming down with something. It knocks that out right away. The only bad thing about this product is how fast they sell out, especially around this season. So, if you're sick of being sick and you want to try these out for yourself, and you see that orange cart right there, that means they are still in stock and the flash sale is still live.

Robert Oliver

Masterful TikTok shop video.

Shaan Puri

That's a masterful TikTok shop video. Mhmm.

Robert Oliver

And like, if you don't market it, you see it and you go, "Yeah," but you forget that the average person sees that and they're like, you know, they're going to the coffee table at work the next day and talking about, "Man, you know, like mold and fungus is everywhere." And by the way, "Here, take this oil of oregano."

Shaan Puri

I got cousins that will send me this. Yeah, and they'll be like, "You gotta start taking this. The government's out to get you." They have these conspiracy theories combined with, you know, "In ancient times, this used to be the way we did things." Uh-huh. And then, you know, his last scarcity call to action where he's like, "The only downside is they sell out so fast. So if you see the button is orange, that means they still have it. Just get it while it's available."

Robert Oliver

Still there? Go and it's on Flashdale right now. You know, it's like, "Did you see the brand you're invested in?" Did you have anyone send you content from that at any point? Like, just...

Shaan Puri

Not only did I have people send me content from that brand, which we were the founders of, but the founder also doesn't want us talking about it. Then, he sent me a video of other people creating videos saying, "I'm tired of hearing about this," which is like the ultimate sign of respect. It means it dominated TikTok so much. Their video was like, "If I see one more video telling me about this, I'm not going to buy your thing." But even that video had 7,000,000 views of the person complaining about seeing this so much.

Robert Oliver

**Which means mission accomplished. We got 600,000,000 views in a month. That is an insane, insane number, and that was before shop.**

Shaan Puri

How much did you spend that month to get 600,000,000 views?

Robert Oliver

It was a little over a hundred grand. That was before Shopify. So, Shopify now is changing the unit economics. I'd say, not in favor of the brands, but at the end of the day, it adds a level of scale. Now, with commissions and stuff, that was when we were sending it to Amazon and we weren't even tracking it. We were just like, "If we can get 600 million views, we're gonna be alright," you know?

Shaan Puri

For a hundred grand, well, it creates this amazing flywheel, right? Because you hear about a brand a bunch on TikTok, you then Google it and click the link, or you go to Amazon. Yep, and you search on Amazon. It tells Google, it tells Amazon, people are searching for this brand name. It ups your rank there. Exactly, organic ranking off of the social, in addition to the direct conversions on social.

Robert Oliver

Yep, no, exactly. Uh-huh. Where do...?

Shaan Puri

You go to find these brands that are crushing it.

Robert Oliver

This tool, and this is the other crazy thing, Calodata is directly plugged into TikTok's API. Calodata, spelled C-A-L-O-D-A-T-A. If you go to the homepage here, you're seeing top products and top videos. You can look at, like, you could study... that's that kid's video. I know him; he's in our group. But that was one of the top videos from last week. It made him...

Shaan Puri

If you go right now to the top products, what do you see? Is it like rankings weekly, or how do they do this?

Robert Oliver

Yeah, so, like beauty and personal care, you can filter however you want. So this is last.

Shaan Puri

Are you in this list?

Robert Oliver

This is the last thirty days. We are in this list; we're top five, and we're not three, four, or five. Then I think if you expand it, we have a couple of products in the top ten.

Shaan Puri

Can you talk about what your products are? Which products can you talk about?

Robert Oliver

Yeah, I mean, like a really good example has been...

Shaan Puri

Are we gatekeeping here, or are you?

Robert Oliver

No, I don't. I mean, I yap about stuff on Instagram all the time. So, Evil Goods has been a really good case study of beef tallow in the skincare section.

Shaan Puri

How'd you decide to do beef tallow of all?

Robert Oliver

That was an investment. One of our students saw that category as similar to longevity. Holistic wellness is obviously becoming huge. People don't like toxic skincare. This seems to have some good support; it has this grassroots Twitter movement. Let's bet on that. So, you know, that's what we did. Pretty much whenever you see the ability to market to fear, like that big pharma or whatever it might be, or insecurities, run into the plastics.

Shaan Puri

Yeah, whatever.

Robert Oliver

That would do well on this platform. Just because people feel like they're learning something, it checked all those boxes. He came out with a crazy aggressive name: "Evil Goods." It's like, you know, we'll see because that could disrupt the ability to go to retail and stuff like that. But at the same time, Liquid Death... yeah, yeah, so it could.

Shaan Puri

Be a liquid death or exactly.

Robert Oliver

Exactly. So, hopefully, I plan to flag on that. But this thing has gone just nuclear.

Shaan Puri

What's your cologne brand?

Robert Oliver

Top shelf. This ties back to my thesis that massive industries are overturned during these eras. I want "Top Shelf" to be a passion project of mine. I want to build a creed for Gen Z, you know, a creed like fragrance. It presents the opportunity to do that.

Shaan Puri

So, the way that cologne works... I don't know much about cologne, but it seems like it's kind of a luxury item sold through retail traditionally. Yep, super high margin—like crazy margins—because it's basically, you know, water and a little bit of essential oil or whatever. So, how do you sell that? How do you make a popular cologne brand? And could you say, like, revenue-wise, what that's going to do this year?

Robert Oliver

We've been doing close to a million bucks a month. So it's been... it's been a unique challenge for me. This ties back to, I mean seriously, everyone in this world, if you're venturing into it, pick something you like and see some area of disruption. Make stuff for yourself. Like that, that's really what I see. As I've gravitated more towards... you know, we talked about offline, but I like high fashion. I like design. So this seems like the perfect segue for me to go from consumable to something that can play in that world, right? Fashion culture? Yeah, exactly.

Shaan Puri

That world.

Robert Oliver

Exactly. So, like, Creed is relevant at these big fragrance houses in Paris and stuff like that. For me, it's been a...

Shaan Puri

I know it's luxury because I've never heard of what you're saying. It must be good.

Robert Oliver

Have you seen Creed? Or no? No, you probably mean Creed Aventus. It's like a popular fragrance that sells for $250 a bottle. So when I'm seeing that, I'm thinking, "Oh, I can see there's a lot of margin for it." Let's walk through it.

Shaan Puri

So, you're like, "Alright, I want to go into cologne." Mhm. You get it made. How? Where'd you go to make it?

Robert Oliver

So, I had to hire a... he's like, he called himself a professional nose, you know? And he's been designing fragrances for God knows how long. Okay, and so I'm learning. Did you...?

Shaan Puri

Just Google this guy. How'd you find him?

Robert Oliver

Our relationship with our other business partner is important. He had done skincare before, and this guy was a known figure in the industry. He charges an arm and a leg and made one good product, but I don't think I like it. So, I'm thinking, how can we build this out internally? I've learned more about the industry, like what smell is actually fascinating and how it makes people feel.

Shaan Puri

What's fascinating about it?

Robert Oliver

Just all the different, you know, mechanisms and mixes. Like, you go to Abercrombie, and you know exactly what it smells like. It's like a signature of branding. It can be a signature of a person, you know, like probably like...

Shaan Puri

The least used sense in marketing.

Robert Oliver

So, like... do you think about a fresh pair of Nikes? Like, that's intentional, right?

Shaan Puri

And like **new car smell**.

Robert Oliver

New car smell... and so it's just been a fun avenue to learn more. I'm far from an expert in it, just to be honest. We have the one product we're moving well with, and then we're trying to build out... oh wait.

Shaan Puri

So, tell me, you said you went to the nose? Mhm. The nose makes something for you? That's what you use? Or you said you didn't like it?

Robert Oliver

So, he actually made us eight different samples. We chose the one he wanted to use. We blew it up and did $700 our first month. It just got murdered with bad reviews. People hate it... like, hate it. And so now, all of a sudden, I got all...

Shaan Puri

You liked it or no? No? Yeah, okay. You and yourself were like one star.

Robert Oliver

Yeah, and I'm kind of... I didn't hate it, right? I didn't hate it, but I wasn't like, "Oh, I would wear this." At the time with Genius, I was really big on making products for yourself and being all in on that. Then we had all these things going nuclear, and so I'm like, "Money."

Shaan Puri

Right.

Robert Oliver

Where's the money? $90 bomb.

Shaan Puri

Make something for myself, but this time it's money instead of a product.

Robert Oliver

And honestly, I blew up in my face a little bit. So we revamped the second one and had a, you know, it's a winner. It was very methodical. That's the one doing like a million bucks a month. But before we...

Shaan Puri

Made a billion a month. It must have made a dollar a month. So how did it... what did you do initially to get that to work? So you go to the creators that... that was the...

Robert Oliver

Nice part: the first fragrance we got the playbook, like the angles that worked. So, good marketing, bad product.

Shaan Puri

Yeah, exactly. So, what were the angles? Can you give us an example of that?

Robert Oliver

That's another one. It's huge in this TikTok era. I don't like saying "Gen Z," actually; it's more about TikTok users. There are a billion users on there, right? So, it's a disservice to the app to say it's just Gen Z, although that's where a lot of these ideas percolate from. The self-improvement, dating, and all these little boxes that this generation is trying to check are hyper-relevant. For example, "smell" is a big thing in their world. How do you smell around the girl you're trying to talk to? It's a very easy fear.

Shaan Puri

Yeah, what's the name of your thing? It's like "Her Loss."

Robert Oliver

Her loss. Uh-huh.

Shaan Puri

Where did that come from? That's genius.

Robert Oliver

It's actually... I went through this whole, like, Drake era on my personal brand. He has an album called *Her Loss*. It's like, "Don't reinvent the wheel."

Shaan Puri

He succeeded. What would be like a killer hook to sell that cologne on?

Robert Oliver

They do actual skits. One that worked really well is when we had female creators do it, and they started calling it "pussy magnet juice." You gotta believe that! My boyfriend came home and this or whatever, you know? It was really high converting stuff.

Shaan Puri

There's a story. I just did a podcast with this guy, Craig Clemons. Do you know Craig? So, he told the story of "OG marketing" that's super relevant for this. I'm going to retell it because his episode's going to come out too. He talks about one of the greatest headlines he's ever read in marketing. He goes, "I have four for you," and the first one he told was about this headline. Here's the story: This guy is a famous marketer. He's known as one of the best marketers on earth. A Hollywood actor hits him up and says, "My wife wants to launch her own perfume brand. Will you come and help us with the marketing of it?" So, he meets the wife. She says, "I want to do this." He goes, "Say no more. I will make this happen." He starts studying fragrances and goes to a mall. You know the guys at the mall who have the "make your own fragrance" thing? He asks one of them, "What's the number one fragrance that women love?" The guy says, "Oh, sir, easy. China musk." He goes, "China musk?" The guy replies, "Yes, China musk. Smell it. It smells good." So, he takes it. This is only a couple of weeks in, but he doesn't go back to the Hollywood wife. He sits on it. He's like, "I need to make her wait for her to value this. I need to make it feel more important." After three months, he comes back to her and says, "I'd like to meet you. I have something for you." She goes, "Okay, what you got?" He replies, "I've traveled the world. I've tested thousands of things. I've studied and talked to everybody, and I found it. I found the greatest fragrance for you." She smells the China musk and says, "This is perfect." In the meantime, he goes to a jeweler and says, "I need you to make me the fanciest bottle you can come up with for this thing." It's like this diamond shape or whatever. He comes up with this beautiful bottle, he's got China musk, and then he tells her, "We're going to do a launch." She says, "Yeah, we could do it at this small place." He replies, "No, no, no. We need to do it somewhere bigger. How about the Crowne Plaza Hotel?" She's like, "That's huge! We would need a few thousand people to show up." He goes, "That's my job." So, she books the hotel and says, "You better not embarrass me." He goes home and thinks, "I gotta figure out a way to get thousands of people to come to this grand launch." He writes this headline that says, "Wife of famous Hollywood star swears under oath that her new perfume does not contain illegal sexual stimulants." He adds, "To prove its safety and that it is not what people are claiming, she is doing a live testing where she will prove without a shadow of a doubt that this fragrance works and is safe at the Crowne Plaza Hotel on this date." Like 10,000 people show up to this thing. It's packed. He hires armed security guards to walk in with handcuffs to a briefcase that contains the perfume. People see them walking in and think, "Holy shit! What is this thing that's being presented in this way?" There's this whole story, and it ends up becoming a bestseller. He's like, "That headline..." He breaks down the elements: "Wife of Hollywood star," curiosity gap—"Which Hollywood star?"—swears under oath. That's kind of like the conspiracy, the seriousness, the drama, the stakes of the...

Robert Oliver

Situation.

Shaan Puri

And then it doesn't contain sexual stimulants. So, like, how good is it? People think it's so good it should be illegal. You know, "evil goods" or the stuff you're talking about with your cologne, it hits those same notes. Now, that was back in the, I don't know, like the seventies or something like that. It was a long time ago, but it's the same playbook just redone today in 2025.

Robert Oliver

And then Craig took it and put it in Facebook ads, and I'm taking it and putting it on TikTok. Quick side note too for anyone: I know there's a vast internet world of gurus and people that talk about stuff. If a guru or talking head in the marketing space doesn't know Craig, they're not really tapped into the work. Yeah, like it's actually simple. Anyone that... I don't know Craig personally; I don't know if he knows me, but I know that operation is run like *fucking* Skunkworks. He has popularized a lot of things. Actually, that framework has been seen in a Facebook ad from him. His name's... you know, that he's... you don't see him. Yeah, exactly.

Shaan Puri

He's a madman. Uh-huh.

Robert Oliver

What?

Shaan Puri

Could you show me a couple of other stories that you think are pretty badass? Stories that we should know about, the stuff that's working on TikTok.

Robert Oliver

Underbrush Gum is another example of a really scrappy startup entrepreneur that's doing millions a month now. They make this gum themselves and have built their own factory. He's had a crazy rush over the last month, but like brands will go up and then down. You gotta find the new angles, right? Like this Trump video I just showed you will work for a month and then it'll go away. Underbrush just hit a huge one this last month, playing into TikTok's going away. My small family business is going to get crushed, and it was the founder doing like some ASMR video of how he's making it.

Shaan Puri

Right, while talking about that.

Robert Oliver

Yeah, well, no. Then he just gave that out, and then the army picked it up and all put their own play on it.

Shaan Puri

Gotcha.

Robert Oliver

So, it was the same angle over and over again with different voices. Some were claiming just their business, but that did millions for him over the last thirty days.

Shaan Puri

Can I put you on the spot? Yeah, let's do a little magic trick. So, let's brainstorm live... a hundred million dollar TikTok brand. Yep, so where do we start? I'll be your wingman. I'll be your brainstorming partner. Let's go!

Robert Oliver

Right into Gen Z and this younger generation, there's so much change. Like, if you've talked about looks maxing, right? Where like...

Shaan Puri

Explain what that is, so...

Robert Oliver

Looks maxing is interesting, to say the least. But there's this subset of young men that are hyper-focused on looks, almost to the point of it being super feminine.

Shaan Puri

They're optimizing it.

Robert Oliver

Yeah, exactly. It's like their... their, again, their heart's in a good place. Most things can be boiled down to basic human desires, like they want to reproduce, right? But how they're going about it is all of a sudden... have you seen those funny videos on morning routines now? It's almost like Patrick Bateman-esque, but...

Shaan Puri

It's just so elaborate.

Robert Oliver

You mean, or yeah, I can trim each like that. That's so... but there's a market there. There's not enough products there. So it's kind of like a community.

Shaan Puri

It sounds silly, right? When you say it, it sounds superficial. But you know, how different is that than, you know, maybe the bodybuilding movement in the early days? It's like these guys who take it really seriously. They're counting the reps and the sets, and they're figuring out, you know, what type of training is going to lead to...

Robert Oliver

You know this muscle, right?

Shaan Puri

Back here, the lower head of the tricep... To anyone else, it sounds like overkill. But they got into it, they got passionate about it, and they wanted to explore, "What if we took this to the nth degree?" Brian Johnson is doing that with longevity right now. Yeah, it sounds crazy. It's easy to make fun of him, but he's like, "I'm gonna take it to the full money." And there are people who rally behind that; they think that’s cool. You're saying, look, maxing is this early wave where people are doing that. They're taking their looks as seriously as women take their looks. Yep, because we all know women have this huge... you know, like tutorials on eyelash extensions and every little nook and cranny. Now you're saying guys are doing it too.

Robert Oliver

For free, exactly. For guys, okay? And there's no... it's an underserved market. You've seen products like... there's a product called Jar Size. Have you seen that?

Shaan Puri

Oh, jar size... like your jaw, your jawline.

Robert Oliver

Yeah, exactly. That's like one of the core foundations of looksmaxing. And so that product blew up, right?

Shaan Puri

It's like a jaw exercising, right?

Robert Oliver

Just that you just bite it. You said, "Does it work? Does it not?" I don't know. But then, you know, the kids are...

TikTok

Right.

Robert Oliver

Right viewing.

Shaan Puri

And so, you're just studying culture. It seems like you're just watching... I want to point out one thing. I had a really early friend in Silicon Valley teach me this, and I never forgot it. He was the first product manager at Twitter. If you remember, Twitter at the time was really made fun of when it came out because you would text a phone number. There was no app; you just texted a phone number whatever you wanted. Anyone who was subscribed to your phone number would get a message that said something like, "Sean's eating." Just to say, "I'm eating a ham sandwich." So, it got made fun of. If you go look up old TechCrunch articles, people made fun of it. It was this like frivolous, stupid thing.

Robert Oliver

But, it turns out...

Shaan Puri

You know, now it's like the beacon of free speech. Mhmm... like that's what happens in the world, right? Mhmm. At the time, I asked, "Why'd you take the job at Twitter? Did it seem like the next big thing?" He goes, "No." But he figured out that anytime there's a phenomenon of behavior that you see as weird, and you don't even understand why they're doing it, but they are undeniably doing it, you should lean in as an investor or as an entrepreneur. That's your signal to lean in. Whereas most people use that same signal and they laugh or they push away.

Robert Oliver

Yep, and it gets harder the older you get. But staying tapped in on that and not being oblivious to the change in the future is important. I was like my dad with Instagram, thinking, "What a stupid platform! People posting pictures." Now, everyone knows you have to have an Instagram. So, that's happening again.

Shaan Puri

I think that's great advice. We were hanging out with Mr. Beast last week, and he has this saying: "You're crazy until you're successful; then you're a genius." He goes on to say, "I've been doing the same thing the whole time. You know, I used to sit in my bedroom and make ridiculous videos. At the time, I had no money, so my ridiculous videos back then included me counting to 100,000. It was like a nineteen-hour video or something. Or, I would take a plastic knife and cut through a plastic table with just a knife. It was just a stunt." Now, it's like taking a bulldozer and cutting through the Eiffel Tower, right? He just scaled it up. But he said, "At that time, I was seen as stupid and crazy. People would ask, 'Why are you wasting all your time on this YouTube thing? Go to school, get a degree, get a good job.' Now, I'm this... you know, I used to be weird; now they call me passionate. I used to be kind of, you know, crazy; now I'm obsessed." He's like, "I didn't change the whole time." So, kind of what you're saying is you see the culture doing something that seems novel, seems new. Instinctively, as somebody who's a little bit older...

Robert Oliver

That's stupid.

Shaan Puri

That's stupid. This... and now you're like, "Get curious instead."

Robert Oliver

Be... my advice is to be an observer, not a consumer, on all of these platforms. Observe what's actually happening. Hold your opinion to yourself; just be super matter-of-fact and observe. Because if looks maxing views are going up month over month, that just is. I don't really care what your opinion on it is, right? That just is. That's fact. Work backwards from that. So, looks maxing... I mean, with that, all of a sudden, it's literally how broad it becomes. Just like when pet supplements became a thing on Amazon, it's a category that becomes potential billions overnight with nothing in it. And so, men... who makes men's skincare products? Well, like two or three brands that aren't even focused on it. So, I mean, right there, you can build anything.

Shaan Puri

Would be like, "Look, Maxim trend, go!" And then you would brainstorm maybe like skin care, mastic gum, like jawline stuff.

Robert Oliver

Yeah, I like to look at **exploding topics** and I still like to look at **Amazon data**. There are different tools you can use, and you'll see searches for...

TikTok

Those things.

Shaan Puri

And do you get afraid, "Oh, somebody's already doing this," or whatever? No, it's like more validation of the idea. Then you're going to try to out... you know, out horsepower them on the marketing. Then you come up with the hooks. So, like, what would be an example of a hook for, let's say, looks maxing? Now, what's an example of the product? It would be like a gum or like a jaw thing, or do you think skincare? Which one would you go into? Let's just say gum because it's a consumable novel.

Robert Oliver

Repeat buys are probably relatively straightforward to do.

Shaan Puri

Okay, and now you have a gum. Great! We got our product. Do you want to name it as part of our improv here? Oh...

Robert Oliver

Chat GPT, yeah.

Shaan Puri

What would you prompt? Because you use AI for a...

Robert Oliver

A lot of stuff I actually do, and that's... yeah, let's do it.

Shaan Puri

Let's go on and test it.

Robert Oliver

Do it. Yeah, it's actually gotten so, so good.

Shaan Puri

Do you think the jaw angle is the trick with the gum? Or would it be breath? What do you think?

Robert Oliver

It would be... you'd call them feminine in some capacity for not having a strong...

Shaan Puri

I like how your brain went there. I have this phrase that I say, which is: "The only positioning is counter positioning." A lot of people just want to state their position, like, "Oh, we're healthy. We're good for you." But everyone is saying those same things. So, you gotta be counter. You have to have something that is the enemy, or you gotta diagnose a problem and then sell the solution. So, yeah, the only positioning is counter positioning. What you're saying is, if you're not working on your jaw, you probably have a feminine jaw.

Robert Oliver

Exactly. And if...

Shaan Puri

You can live with that if you could sleep at night with that.

Robert Oliver

Then that's for you. Okay, so I started by asking ChatGPT, "Do you understand looks maxing?" Yes, it's about small, natural tweaks. The goal is to maximize aesthetic appeal, with an emphasis on facial symmetry and overall attractiveness. I'm creating a product for jawline enhancement gum—something to be consumed every day. I like dual meanings and stuff too. I love when names have, you know, double entendres. I like things like that. So, that's where I would probably go with this. I'm looking for a clever, powerful name that has, you know, dual meaning. "Chisel" is a nice name; I feel like that's a nice name.

Shaan Puri

Is that what I gave you?

Robert Oliver

Yeah, "Chisel" is the first one. "Masticate" is chewing, but it also sounds intense. And "Chad Chew"—these are all great names, you know? Alright, I...

Shaan Puri

Like chisel, though.

Robert Oliver

**Chisel's** good. Yeah, **Chisel's** my favorite store.

Shaan Puri

Alright, so we got Chisel Gum. Yep. Now you gotta come up with how we're gonna market this. So you're gonna go to your creator army. Mhmm.

Robert Oliver

You.

Shaan Puri

Tell them what you want to do, or you just let them go now?

Robert Oliver

Go. This has been part of respecting the future, but understanding that I'm not that person anymore.

Shaan Puri

Letting go.

Robert Oliver

Yeah, exactly. And so...

Shaan Puri

Let's pretend we're those creams. We're not, so we're like, we're going to be, you know, white belts at this, whereas there's black belts. But I see videos trending on TikTok all the time about transformation, like weight loss, whatever. You could almost make it where you're not talking about a gum, obviously. It's like, you know, somebody being like, "My..." They use the trending music that people are using to...

Robert Oliver

Be the weight loss influencer. They would put them up there and highlight the different things on the facial symmetry and this and that. Then, they would look at his jawline.

Shaan Puri

Right, and why this... what you're saying, why this person is attracted. The human mind is attracted to symmetry, the golden ratio, stuff like that. You would use, like, "Oh, I'm kind of teaching you a science about why." Or you could even do, like, "Why guys don't think this guy's attractive but girls do?" Yep, and you're like, "Oh, okay, what's the difference there?" Or you could do a transformation and be like, "I did five things. I took creatine, I did this..." Yep, the third thing is I started chewing this gum daily. Honestly, I didn't believe it, but look at this! Boom, boom! And then, like, it's available on Amazon. Back to my story about, like, you know, my transformation. If you have a video like that... Yep, that was one of...

Robert Oliver

The first ones that blew up on Evil Goods was literally that this girl had hormonal acne. It was the three things that helped with that. She showed a before picture and after, and that was part of it. It just went nuclear.

Shaan Puri

Alright, so we got our hooks there. We got our brand chisel. So what was the other one you said? You're like, basically, we can fund a startup right now. We can find an operator. It's a request for operator.

Robert Oliver

Yes, luxury pet is screaming at me. Like, Louis Vuitton is doing full pop-ups of $500 dog bowls. It just shows again, it's like luxury is such an interesting world, right? Because it's just like signaling and status. What are people willing to pay? There's no luxury pet brands yet.

Shaan Puri

Did you hit it again? My initial reaction is, "Oh my God, that's so stupid! What a waste! I can't believe people are doing this." But you're saying people are doing this.

Robert Oliver

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Shaan Puri

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Robert Oliver

A lot less.

Shaan Puri

Would you... So my initial hesitation would have been: can you build luxury on TikTok? Isn't TikTok kind of like, you know, it's more like a Walmart than it is like a luxury brand? But maybe I'm wrong. Maybe it's just that there are a billion people on it, and so you can't generalize like that.

Robert Oliver

And that's what I love. That's why I said, "Let's not do a disservice to the app and the platform they built." That's why I did it on Amazon with Genius. Genius is a very high-end supplement brand. We were selling, you know, we had a $130 product that was, by all intents and purposes, like luxury. People said, "Oh, that would never work on Amazon; it's a discount site." TikTok has a lot of those components in it now too. But again, you tie back to a billion people. You tie back to, I mean, my cologne's $90. So that's not cheap, right? It's not a $30 cologne. $30 colognes outsell us, but I only need to sell one of those for every three, and it's done well. So I think it's there.

Shaan Puri

And how would you, if you did this luxury thing, like... what would you do to build the brand? Because I think you study high fashion; you study like kind of the cool stuff in culture. What would you do if you were translating that to the TikTok world? What would you do for a luxury pet brand?

Robert Oliver

Do you know René Girard, like Peter Thiel's?

Shaan Puri

Yeah, yeah, like mimetic theory. Mhm.

Robert Oliver

I love that! So, I think the simple explanation is that people don't know what they want, so they want what others want. From our perspective as brand owners, influencing influencers and finding those names, I think the most straightforward way to run this is to find one of these streamers. If I could get a clip of Drake using my cologne and then give it to the creator army, we would do millions of dollars. I think you can do that in pets as well. I don't know if Kim Kardashian has a freaking poodle or whatever, but sure.

Shaan Puri

She does.

Robert Oliver

But she, you know, you don't even need that big of a name. Just someone in that space, and then you feed it to the army. I think that's the most straightforward thing, and I think it would go overnight.

Shaan Puri

Yeah, I almost wonder if you could even just use the outrage... So, like, yeah.

Robert Oliver

Of the cost of it, I was thinking that I can't believe people are...

Shaan Puri

Doing this... this is the craziest thing I've seen. Celebrities are doing this, and it makes me sick. Whatever. Some people in the... like, it'll get to so many people, and most of the comments will be negative about the idea. But it's just gonna get so much reach that some people are gonna... either just... it'll plant the seed that this exists.

Robert Oliver

Yep.

Shaan Puri

That I'm not doing it, that other people are doing it. That, hey, maybe I would do that. I do love my pet.

Robert Oliver

Yep, or even like, you could play into Louis Vuitton doing it. I think there are a lot of different ways to approach it. I just like those areas where there's that much margin to play. There's just more, and again, it ties back to human nature. We exist in a culture and a world where we've created so much abundance. Bottom line, we could afford things like universal basic income. We're automating the hell out of everything, and anything is freaking possible. With that in mind, there's really no shortage. You see some of the services that exist for billionaires; it is just the most absurd hyper... but it exists, and the people providing those do well. Isn't that like a thing he says? "Sell to people with more money" or whatever? Yeah, something like that.

Shaan Puri

One of his many genius insights is to **sell to the people with money**. However, there is an actual business framework here. If you take what the rich have and find a way to democratize it, you can build a huge business. **Uber** is a classic example of this. Rich people had private drivers. When they were done with a meeting, they would send a text, and the driver would pull up. They could get in and out without worrying about parking and gas. Uber democratized that private driver experience. Their homepage literally stated, "A private driver for everyone." That was the start of Uber Black cars. Even **Airbnb** follows this model. What is Airbnb? It's having a vacation home. It's the ability to stay in a home in places like Tahoe or in various cities. Airbnb became a service that allowed everyone access to what was once exclusive to rich people who had vacation homes. **Marquee Jets** is another example. Instead of buying a private jet for $50 million or $100 million, you could buy a fractional share and get to fly for a certain number of hours. There was a huge market of people that wanted this option.

Robert Oliver

Do that, even JSX, now probably to some extent.

Shaan Puri

Your JSX is exactly like that. So, you know, that's a bit... if you can find a way to drop the cost. Even Duolingo, like we have rich people who will hire a Mandarin tutor for their kid. But then, if you have an app that can teach your kid a foreign language in a way, it's doing the same thing. So I think that is just generally a business model. What are the mistakes people make? If somebody was to go into this, what are the common pitfalls someone could fall into that you could just save them from?

Robert Oliver

The funnel here, how they treat those affiliates, is very culture-based. I've seen brands where there's so much money being made right now. Brand owners need to be super generous because, you know, a market's a market. And right now, people are paying. You talked about the goalie challenge.

Shaan Puri

Yeah, explain this because that was in an old episode. So, explain what they were doing.

Robert Oliver

This brand comes in, and in an effort to get as many creators as possible, they put together all these prizes. For example, if you did a million dollars in sales for them in a month, I believe they'd give you a condo in Brickell or the cash equivalent, which is like $600 or something like that.

Shaan Puri

Lamborghini was the next one. It was like this rewards tier list.

Robert Oliver

Rolexes left and right and you're...

Shaan Puri

Selling goalie gummies. They just make these apple cider vinegar gummies, which are basically a health product—a kind of holistic health wellness thing. Cider vinegar has benefits for your gut and whatever. Maybe, maybe... yeah, that was the narrative at the time.

Robert Oliver

Creator said, "So, yeah."

Shaan Puri

This 22-year-old who's trying to win a condo told me that that's how the world works.

Robert Oliver

Oh man.

Shaan Puri

Do you believe in any advertising at this?

Robert Oliver

No. Uh-huh.

Shaan Puri

Once you've seen how...

Robert Oliver

The sausage is made. You're like, "There's a reason I hate supplements too." You know, I'm not launching new supplements. I mean, there are some good stuff out there, but overall, when you really peel back all the layers, a decent amount of health advice online nowadays is coming from 18-year-olds making conspiracy videos.

Shaan Puri

That's pretty wild.

Robert Oliver

It's just reality. A good brand like Goli comes in and sets the stage for how creators are being treated. Obviously, they have a lot of money, and they're trying to mess the game up for everyone else, right? They can afford to lose some money. But then, if you're a startup brand owner and you come in saying, "No, I don't want to give you 25% commission; I'm going to give you 20," that can be super off-putting. In this current era, I would say, and even in the culture from the group we own part of, it's about abundance. It's like, "Put it out there; it's going to come back." As a brand owner, bringing that mindset and accepting that we are a different generation, without infringing on others, I think that's the best thing you can do.

Shaan Puri

Right, alright. What... give me your thoughts. Just summarize. If I tuned out and I just need to hear one thing to summarize, what's your thoughts on this TikTok opportunity? Give me a little summary. Then I want to ask about some other stuff.

Robert Oliver

Millions are being printed on TikTok Shop... like, like.

Shaan Puri

What are you doing right? You're just...

Robert Oliver

Starting brands and trying to get as many... I'm trying to perfect short form content and short form content distribution, like from a brand perspective.

Shaan Puri

Why do you believe so much in short form?

Robert Oliver

Content is changing the world in front of our eyes. It's from personalities we know to songs we know. Music, even, we're hearing songs that are blowing up from this world, and that's just...

Shaan Puri

It's the future. Do we have this friend, Connor Price? Have you seen what he does on TikTok?

Robert Oliver

Wait, who is he again?

Shaan Puri

He's a rapper. A white guy rapper.

Robert Oliver

Yes, yes, yes, yes.

Shaan Puri

Yes, yes. He used to work in Ramon's warehouse, moving boxes. No shit. Then, during COVID, the warehouse shuts down. He goes home, and his wife's like, "You should put your music out there. Let's do something." Right? We're just sitting at home, and he was really shy about it. She's like, "You gotta start making content." He puts out a YouTube video, and it gets like, you know, 11 views, like most YouTube videos do. Then she had this genius idea. She's the real mastermind behind it because she was like, "Let's make a TikTok." He had the same reaction: "TikTok? That's stupid. That's not serious. I'm an artist. I'm a musician. I'm not just one of these kids dancing." What he did was start making these videos. We'll put one on the screen here so people can watch it. He created a little skit. Instead of just saying what I would have done, like a boomer, I would have been like, "Hey guys, I got a new song here," or I would just make a video of playing the song. Yeah, and guess what happens when you're scrolling through TikTok? You're swiping every three seconds, and a song starts to play that you've never heard before. You just keep swiping; it doesn't grab you right away. So instead, he started doing these funny skits where he would play three characters, almost like an Eddie Murphy movie. He would open the door, and every skit starts with him opening the door, and there's the rapper coming into the studio.

Robert Oliver

Yeah.

Shaan Puri

He's got the guy with the headphones on—that's him, as the producer. Then he has the weird brother, and the weird brother is kind of the key to making the whole thing work. So, he would walk in and he'd be like... he has one scene where he's taking a carrot and drilling holes in it. You're like, "What?" It's like the sound of a drill; it's visually weird. And they're both like, "Well, he's being weird again." Then he's like, "Let's get down to work. You wanna play that song?" Then you hear this flute playing, and they both look at the brother. He's playing the carrot flute, but it's the beat of the song. He overlaid it that way as if that was the beat. The producer's like, "Go with it, go with it." Then he starts rapping, and then the song hits. The song is almost the punchline of the skit. Yep, and dude, he became like independently—no record label—billion streams on Spotify.

Robert Oliver

Doing no marketing on Spotify, only on TikTok. If I want to summarize all of this, it almost seems dark for a second, but one of my favorite quotes is, "If you tell a lie enough times, it becomes truth." That was obviously war propaganda back in the day, but you take that idea and then think purely in terms of views, and more specifically, the cost of acquisition of views. So, you have, like, when you're a tobacco company, and you're getting doctors to promote it. You have the money to get the views and control the narrative, right? The more you can do that, it's usually a pay-to-play game. Except in these windows, when all of a sudden, an Andrew Tate bursts on the scene. It doesn't matter if what he's saying is real or not; he's getting seen a billion times a month. All of a sudden, there's a narrative being formed that he has serious impact on. These gold rush windows are when there's the ability for normal people, without multinational-level marketing budgets, to form a mainstream narrative or get a billion views on Spotify and become something. Because of these windows, we couldn't have done that. He couldn't have done that without TikTok. The old Instagram wouldn't have allowed him to go viral; there was no means of connecting.

Shaan Puri

Yes, it's this amazing circle. Like, twelve years ago, Instagram comes out. Imagine if you were like, "What are you doing all day today?" It's like, "Oh, I'm filming myself. I'm cooking at home and taking pictures of it or making videos of it."

Robert Oliver

You're a weirdo to get a job.

Shaan Puri

What are you doing? Yeah, so you go from being a weirdo wasting his time, but you were early on the platform. Now, let's say you wanted to become a food creator. It's like, "Dude, it's too saturated, man. It's impossible to win."

Robert Oliver

It's like...

Shaan Puri

But now, everybody's accepted that influencers are a thing and that they can move product. They can become rich and famous doing this. What you're saying is kind of like on TikTok. It's the same model, but instead of you becoming a famous creator, your product can become famous by putting it in the hands of talented people who are going to make all kinds of videos, taking literally like a thousand shots on goal.

Robert Oliver

A month.

Shaan Puri

And if they get the right story or the right premise, and they keep innovating on that, your product gets famous that way.

Robert Oliver

Yep.

Shaan Puri

Whereas, dude, you weren't going to be able to walk into Walmart or Target and get on the shelf. Yep, you're not even going to be able to really go onto Amazon and just rank number one in these categories because they're so competitive anymore, right? You're not going to become an influential creator on Instagram. It's harder. This is where the greenfield is. My...

Robert Oliver

My dad called me an idiot when I was pouring into Amazon. He actually questioned my sanity as a human, right? It was a crazy experience. Now, in hindsight, it's like, "God, thank God."

Shaan Puri

$30,000,000 later.

Robert Oliver

Yeah, thank God I didn't listen to my parents, you know? And that's why I admire guys like Elon. He's a good example. I think when you look at things from a very ground-up perspective and don't take the common route, there's so much arbitrage everywhere. Humans are narrative machines, and we live off that. So, common knowledge becomes whatever. Yet, technology is reshaping everything. That's why I just want to keep leaning into that. I think the more people who aren't afraid to just "send it" with that in mind, in some capacity, the more it gives others the confidence to stand up on their own and do their own thing, you know? Right.

Shaan Puri

I like that you said "send it." You have this phrase I like. So, we talk about looks maxing, and you have said this phrase before: **life maxing**. Yeah, I kind of like the philosophy, but I don't really fully know it because, you know, we've only hung out in group settings a bunch of times. What is the life maxing philosophy? Is this something that you think more people should be kind of taking as a mantra?

Robert Oliver

Yeah, I think so. I think there's a lot of existential dread in today's world. There's also a lot of us trying to...

Shaan Puri

Even amongst successful people, you mean?

Robert Oliver

Especially amongst successful people, it manifests in all sorts of weird ways. You know, look at Ryan Johnson. I'm kidding... crazy take, but love you, Brian! No, he's awesome. He really is. I think he's a good example of someone that's all in on life maxing because everyone... my thing is we have this.

Shaan Puri

He took it literally.

Robert Oliver

He did.

Shaan Puri

Yeah, lifespan maxing.

Robert Oliver

Life span maxing... but we have this blank, you know, scorecard, right? We have this finite time here on Earth. I think the more you can fill it up with things that you thoroughly enjoy, and then kind of like maxing out those stats, so to speak. We're capable of so much, and instead, we fall into this like, "Oh, I'm only gonna chase money," or "Oh, I'm only gonna do this," where living a well-rounded life is important.

Shaan Puri

What's the difference between just being well-rounded and life maxing? Are they the same thing with just a cool name, or is there a difference?

Robert Oliver

I don't see many people. It ties back to that "full sending it" thing. I don't see many people that are really like, "Yo, I'm living for this." So, what were your shower thoughts this morning?

Shaan Puri

My shower thought was that the optimal mindset for me is to be **ignorant of the past**, **realistic about the present**, and **delusional about the future**. Too many people are living in their past or they vacation there all the time. They just keep going to visit and tell themselves it's for all kinds of reasons. Maybe it's therapists telling them to go think about their childhood. Maybe they're saying, "I'm going to go learn lessons." The reality is, the more you live in your past, the less happy you are. You want to be delusional about the future. Why not? Why be realistic about the future? Because you can only, when you're a little bit delusional about the future, do you actually kind of blow your own mind. You get to do more than what you thought was reasonable. But then you've got to be realistic about the present. If you're just delusional about the present, you're like, "No, I am the best dad," but you're not.

Robert Oliver

Yeah, I am not.

Shaan Puri

Then you go nowhere, right? Oh, I'm already uber-duper successful.

Robert Oliver

Yeah, like...

Shaan Puri

Bro, your bank account's, you know, three digits right now. It's like, you gotta be realistic. Just say, "Alright, that's where I am. That's not where I'm always gonna be." Forget the past; it doesn't matter if I failed 10 times. Most of the most successful people, when you talk to them, they're like, "Yeah, for ten years, you grind it." If you ask them, "What was that like? What were you doing?" it's almost hard for them to even remember. Yep, and it's not because it was so long ago. It's because there's actually like a useful part of your brain that just blocks it out. Yeah, it's like my wife. She did natural delivery of birth like three times, and if I ask her about it, it's like her body has a mechanism that's like...

Robert Oliver

You never forgot that, though. You need to.

Shaan Puri

I never forgot. I'm traumatized. I'm like, "How could you do this to me?" The things that happened to me, man, I'm with you. I'm fainting, right? And then she's like, "Forget about it." She only remembers the good. It's like, wow, yeah, your brain gave you a survival mechanism that was actually really good for you. You don't remember how bad it was, how hard it was. I think being ignorant of the past, realistic about the present, and delusional about the future is a good motto to live by.

Robert Oliver

So, I take that there's two things I'm obsessed with: this idea of character design and that that's what I'm living in real time. I think we have the ability, when you zoom out long enough, to create literally whatever type of thing you want to be. You can truly design that. Then, you have another idea I'm obsessed with, which is Bezos's eighty-year regret minimization framework. He wants to view his deathbed, you know, how he wants as few regrets as possible. So, when you work through those two avenues, you can quite literally do anything.

Shaan Puri

So, explain the character design. I've heard of **regret minimization**, which is basically like, "If I'm dying, I want to have the least regrets possible." Therefore, today, if I have a fork in the road, I should do the one that will lead to the least regrets when I'm 80, when I'm 90, or when I'm a hundred.

Robert Oliver

Or something back to your piece: be relatively delusional about the future while being very aware of where you're at today, while pretty much disregarding everything. When I look at the music I've been working on, I remember going to a show in Puerto Rico with John Summit. I was in the booth right next to the DJ, just watching him command that crowd, the energy, and the impact. I thought, "You know, if I'm 80 years old and I didn't at least try to send it in this space, I'll regret it." Then I start thinking through the character lens of what an artist looks like and what the things I have in me are. I'm not completely disconnected from reality, but now I'm taking all of the business aspects into account: "Hey, this is a business. Hey, now the product's music. Hey, this is streaming. Hey, you know, marketing." And that's where I'm at with it.

Shaan Puri

One of the things that you're reminding me of when you're talking about, let's say, music production or getting people to remember is that whether it's marketing or music, if you have something good to say, you almost owe it to yourself. It's like, do you believe in the thing you made? The thing you have to say? Because people are very bashful about marketing. They're bashful about putting it out there. I know this because I would write things, and I wouldn't even send them to my own friends and family. I wouldn't post on social media. I wouldn't promote my product. I just kind of wanted it to be organic. When I look back at that, I'm like, "Damn, I did myself a disservice." Did I think the thing I did was good or not? If I think it was good, then I owe it to that to do marketing.

Robert Oliver

Just to send it... to fully send it... to send it.

Shaan Puri

And you know, when you talk about storytelling in music, you gotta study the art of how to get your stuff out there.

Robert Oliver

It's a phenomenal skill. It's like a crazy, crazy...

Shaan Puri

Like, that's the vehicle you put the package in the trunk, but you need the vehicle that's going to actually get it out there to the masses. It's crazy, dude. We're going to watch this video, this YouTube video right now. You just said it yourself: what you said in this video will make people millions of dollars. If all they did was just try to act on it, give it two years, and try to act on it, you will become a millionaire if you just follow what you just said. If I go look at the YouTube video stats, the retention chart is going to look like it's just a downhill slope. Most people are going to click off within thirty seconds, and then by the end of this, there's only going to be, you know, 25% of people still watching this. I mean, 75% of people clicked on this because they wanted something out of their life, and then they're not going to even stick with it enough to watch the video. Yep, but that's just the laws of nature. And with that in mind...

Robert Oliver

But with that in mind, I think this last chunk of the video, where we're talking about these stories and the ability... like the model is becoming less important. The more I understand people and tap into whatever that innate thing in all of us is, is way more important. I want to bring that out of more people because I've been through a lot of stuff in a short amount of time. I think the more I can bring that forward, the more general impact there will be. There's one of my other favorite internet clips, you know, for the Elons and like Brett Adcock. Do you have him on or not? Like, Adcock, yeah, Brett Adcock, sorry. There are those minds that are just obviously incredible in their own space. But then there's that Elon interview, and it's like, "Elon, you inspire everyone in this room. Who inspires you?" It's like, "Kanye West," of course, you know?

Shaan Puri

Is that what he said?

Robert Oliver

I remember, it's hilarious. That's the opposite side of that. Like, yeah, okay, Kanye is nuts in every way, but just that ability and desire to create and stand up for new things, and have that confidence in yourself regardless of what people say, is nothing short of not only incredible but necessary for people.

Shaan Puri

I love the "send it" attitude. I mean, I want to make merch with the "send it" thing. Also, I think you made me realize there's probably a way I used to think about it, which is well-rounded. You know, Mike Posner came on the podcast. He's a famous musician who wrote "I Took a Pill in Ibiza" and all those songs. His first song went viral, and he tells the story: "The first song went viral, I'm like, of course, that's what I do. I guess that's what I do. I put out a song, I go triple platinum." Then the second song went double platinum, then single platinum, and then no platinum. He was on the shelf. The record label was like, "It's not even worth paying to produce your music because we don't think it'll sell." But also, "You can't go do something else; you're under contract." So he was like, "Dude, I'm shit out of luck." He went back to school and started learning how to sing better. He said, "Dude, I'll just work on my craft." Then he came back, and now he's had this resurgence. He talked about how he had to look at his life and realize, "Yes, I was uber successful in my career, but I was a desert wasteland in relationships, health, and whatever." He realized that was just not success for him. I was inspired by that, and I started thinking, "Yeah, you do want it to be well-rounded." You want to be the dad, the husband. You also want to have fun, be creative, make cool stuff, and be successful in making money. But the well-rounded thing is more like a checklist. It's like, "Am I doing a sufficient amount of X, Y, and Z?" Whereas "lifemaxing" is saying, "What would it look like if I really sent it in terms of my fitness?" Like, "Yeah, I'm going to work out anyway, but I know you do Muay Thai, right?" You're like, "Yep, I'm going to work out for an hour anyway. What could I do that makes me... what would be full send on this workout?"

Robert Oliver

Dramatically better. That's a great example. It's like, two years ago, I couldn't fight at all, and now I feel pretty comfortable in there with a lot of people, right? That aren't named Jon Jones, you know? But just taking things seriously and really putting that notch on your belt. It's like now music or even learning Spanish is something that I'm going to do, and I'm going to take it very seriously. It's not going to be "I'm half-learning Spanish." I'm going to be fluent in it, you know?

Shaan Puri

You do these one at a time, or how do you... That's what I'm discovering: not to stretch yourself to fit.

Robert Oliver

That's what I'm discovering. It's like... how much? I like that healthy balance of pushing yourself. We are capable of so much more than we give ourselves credit for. I've already seen that, but there is some line. I don't have a good answer for that, but I'm trying to also be an open book and show it all in real time. I want you to look back at my fighting clips from two years ago and I want you to see the me... like all of it. I want to be an open story that is ongoing and constantly iterating.

Shaan Puri

So this year, Jesse Itzler came on the podcast and gave this idea of a **misogi**. He's like, "Oh, this is a Japanese tradition," and the American translation or the way he translated the Japanese idea is **one grand challenge a year**. But specifically, it's about doing something so grand that it changes you. For him, it was like he ran this hundred-mile race. Every year, he picks a different one. One year, it was to write a book. He's been doing this for like fifteen years or so, and I was like, "Damn, I never really do something like that." I have New Year's resolutions and things I want to improve about myself, but I never really put out the **misogi**, the grand challenge for the year. So I made one. I was like, "Alright, I want to..." and I like that it's one because I was...

Robert Oliver

Oh, I want to do this and this and this.

Shaan Puri

And all that was going to do was guarantee none of them happen.

Robert Oliver

Yep.

Shaan Puri

So, alright, what's the one for this year? I was like, I would love to be... I wanna have more fun in my life. I have fun playing basketball, I have fun doing the podcast, and I have fun in business with my kids. Where can I dial up fun? I was like, I wanna be able to jam out with music because music is like its own little magic potion. Music makes you feel good in thirteen seconds. I can play a song and change your mood in thirteen seconds. There's not much I could say to you that's gonna do that, like change your mood for the better. So, I was like, alright, I wanna be able to jam out on a piano. But then I was like, alright, what's the life-maxing version of this? Not only am I gonna learn piano, but I'm gonna get good. I'm gonna be able to jam out to any song I want on the piano. That's gonna be my mission. Two, what if I could also teach my daughter? She's five. I was like, what if she could do it with me? Now I'm getting dad points while I'm getting piano points at the same time. Those synergies tie it all together. Oh, it's integration! I'm not choosing between family or my piano hobby; it's both. So, she comes with me to every single lesson. She begs me to do piano now every night. I'm like, okay, that's cool. Then I was like, alright, what would be like the max-out, the full-send version of this? If I really was to send it, what would I do? At first, I was like, would I make a song? Would I perform at a theater? I felt like that's kinda playing somebody else's game. So, I think a key part is to pick what's real for you. Don't just take somebody else's scorecard and be like, "That's how I'm gonna be judging myself." I had this idea from my cousin: go play a recital at an old folks' home. I was like, oh, that'd be just like more fun.

Robert Oliver

Like that.

Shaan Puri

Would just be more fun for me, more meaningful for me, versus like posting it online and getting a bunch of views or performing it in front of other people. It's like, dude, go to this place where I've been to a bunch of senior centers. Not a lot is happening there. I could go be their Kanye because there's nobody else there. Yeah, absolutely. For me, that would be meaningful. I would make other people's day brighter if I did that. So, I was like, to me, that was a real learning lesson of how to choose these side quests, how to choose these missions, these one-year challenges in a way that I'm going to use now going forward. Absolutely, no.

Robert Oliver

No, I think you hit the nail on the head with being hyper-individualized. My life maxing scorecard is not yours, and it shouldn't be. We're all drawn to different things, and I think keeping it individual is important. My main framework is: don't let anyone else dictate it for you, or don't let anyone tell you what you can't be or can't do.

Shaan Puri

Right, what's yours? Like, what does that scorecard look like for you?

Robert Oliver

So, I'm like, Muay Thai is starting to take a back burner. I'm putting being a dad at the top of that, which has been a reshuffling of everything. I'm learning what it means to be present as an individual, and that means way less phone time. This inherently means that some of the other pieces start to crumble, but the beautiful part of this is that when you put your priorities in place, things start to handle themselves. All of a sudden, you start thinking smarter, just naturally. Like, okay, that still has to get done, so I have to trust my team for that and this and that. So, that's at the top of it. The music is the second piece, and then still the other... you know, it's like I'm taking content as one of these things now. Just from a storytelling perspective, some of the stuff I'm going to do on YouTube, I think is going to be...

Shaan Puri

Well, let's talk about content real quick. When I first met you through a mutual friend, you showed up and you always have a different, like, crazy outfit on. Somebody was like, "Oh, you gotta check out his Instagram." So I go, and I was like, "Bro, I was having a great conversation with you." Then I went to your Instagram and I thought, "Not a guy I would ever talk to." Your brand name was like "The Genius CEO." Every video was like Dan Bilzerian meets Instagram meets dropshipper.

Robert Oliver

You know, it was...

Shaan Puri

Like it.

Robert Oliver

It was.

Shaan Puri

Like, oh man, this guy is selling courses and every video is over the top. He's talking about how you can make millions instantly. It had a "get rich quick" vibe. But when I met you, I was like, "Dude, you..." and you were like, "I'm like, you're like, it's an experiment. I'm intentionally turning that knob up that way because I want to see what happens."

Robert Oliver

You're.

Shaan Puri

At the time, I think now you're making a shift. But could you just describe what you did there? Because once I met you, I was like, "Oh, that's he created a character." So, I was like, "That's actually respectable in a way."

Robert Oliver

I’m huge on one of my core principles, which is **intense ownership** of oneself. After I sold my business, Genius, and had my first daughter, I became really frustrated with the world. It started to feel like a coping mechanism. You know, other people have weird ways of ducking ownership and responsibility, disconnecting from their own unhappiness. I remember thinking, "Oh, I don’t like where the world’s headed." I could either sit there and keep crying about it, or I could try to have some influence or make a dent in it. That’s what kind of drew me to **intentional social media**. I had tried to create some cool health content. I wasn’t going full Brian Johnson, but I was doing Dave Asprey-level stuff like hyperbaric chambers and red light therapy about seven or eight years ago. Literally, nobody cared. In hindsight, it was...

Shaan Puri

Guy was finishing last.

Robert Oliver

Yeah, and in hindsight, I didn't know how to make the content yet. But I saw this clear formula: "Oh my god, if I post a car, like I am actually rich. I still have a business." If you post a car or a watch or whatever, people respond. As that started to work, I began doubling down on those things. It wasn't until you kind of have to play the game to change the game a little bit. That was my opinion. That's when you met me, kind of in that wave where I was pseudo-relevant, even if maybe not in the right lens. But until you have learned those skills and learned to develop a platform, then literally nobody cares. Like, nice guys do finish last. So I guess that's just been my personal evolution. It's been fun because I'll be the first to say I got way too far into that stuff. I got lost in it. That actually does happen. Ben, your partner, flagged that for me like seven or eight months ago in a really casual Ben way, but...

Shaan Puri

Ben's nonconfrontational. What did he say to you?

Robert Oliver

It was just something along the lines of, "Well, if you do that stuff enough, don't you start to kind of believe it or become it?" That stuck with me. I don't think he knows that it stuck with me. I don't even know if he remembers he said that, but there were a lot of little things like that that prompted...

Shaan Puri

Me, to stop an actor, you stay in character because you're doing it for the role. But then at some point, it's method acting.

Robert Oliver

Yeah, you lose.

Shaan Puri

Yourself in the... you'll get lost in the song.

Robert Oliver

And actually, that happened to me. Unfortunately, a lot of the things I was leaning into do make you look cool or whatever. So now there's this audience that looks up to you in a very specific light. You have two choices: you can either keep down the same path or you can say, "Whoops, this is what I actually am." I feel like I've separated a lot of the negative parts. Well, it's like I love fashion. I love design. I genuinely do. I think it's about individualism. I think there's like, you know...

Shaan Puri

Can we do the fashion? Okay, so here's me. I have Nike shoes. It should've been just New Balance to go full dad mode. I'm wearing sweatpants and a plain black shirt. Those Kobes though... No, these are not Kobes. These are $90 Nikes. I just like this color of green. So let's go head to toe. Teach me what you got on here.

Robert Oliver

San Francisco, this is full, and I love it.

Shaan Puri

I got matching socks today. That's only because I knew I had to step my game up for you. Normally, it'd be mismatched socks. It'd be more sweatpants or Lululemon at least. And then, like, this might be my daughter's, but I was like, "Oh, hold on, he's gonna have hella accessories. Let me come strong with the..."

Robert Oliver

The rest accessories than usual. So, let's start with the wrist. How much?

Shaan Puri

Do you think this is... you start with the wrist? Is that like part of the fashion you build around this?

Robert Oliver

I don't know... I want to talk about Louis Vuitton, so...

Shaan Puri

That looks fancy to me. Alright, my honest guess would have been that that's a $20,000 watch.

Robert Oliver

This is a vintage Oakley from the nineties, and it was like $3,500.

Shaan Puri

Okay.

Robert Oliver

So, I don't believe that expense and cost are the same. I have some expensive stuff, but I think it's way cooler to put together unique kinds of items. This shirt is from a gentleman whose brand is Erl. I can't pronounce his name, but he's the head photographer for Vogue, and he did all of Kendrick Lamar's work. Again, it's not super expensive, but it's very on the come up. The jeans were from Kanye. This is probably not cheap—around $3,300 or something—but not mind-blowing. Kanye's Free Larry Hoover tour with Drake had these jeans, and they were probably around $150.

Shaan Puri

Like the turbo.

Robert Oliver

Box is not expensive. Louis Vuitton boots, which were expensive, are $2,500. I love what Pharrell is one of my business idols. I think there's a huge gap between artistry, culture, and actual business. Pharrell has that quote: "Creativity without business is victimization, and business without creativity is just dumb." I think him stepping into the head of Louis Vuitton, a brand I would typically never wear or care about, is the perfect example of those two things merging: creativity with meaningful enterprise. Bernard Arnault is one of the top three richest people because of that. Alright, I got...

Shaan Puri

I got a little bit cooler. I don't think I could pull it off.

Robert Oliver

I think.

Shaan Puri

You could pull it off, but maybe... I don't know. You gotta give me like the dad-baby steps version of things. I'm gonna start at the wrist, take it simple, and then we'll go from there. Actually, I should just show up for... We should have done a thing where it's like, I don't know if you've seen Rick Glassman. He does these interviews where he does a podcast, but he'll go and then it'll cut and they'll switch outfits. Oh, that's funny! It's so funny when they do stuff like that. We'll just pretend I did that.

Robert Oliver

That's awesome.

Shaan Puri

Rob, thanks for coming on, man. Everybody should find you, Rob the Bank, which is one of the greatest handles of all time. Thank you for that! I'm well... you were already saying it. I didn't come up with it, but I was like, "Dude, that..."

Robert Oliver

Should be.

Shaan Puri

Your handle better. That should be your brand. What is this? The genius CEO? No, no, no, you should...

Robert Oliver

Be robbed the bank and just wait. Full disclaimer, before we... you know, my last company was the Genius Brand.

Shaan Puri

So, I didn't just... you know, it just looked bad.

Robert Oliver

Thank you for having me. Seriously, this means the world, and I really appreciate it.

Shaan Puri

Awesome! Thanks for doing it.