Nick Bare Tells ALL: Natural Vs Steroids, $60M Supplement Empire & Sub-3 Marathons

Fitness, Business, Finance, and Running a Marathon - January 8, 2024 (about 1 year ago) • 01:24:55

This My First Million episode features Sam Parr's friends, Nick Bare and Sahil Bloom. The trio discuss fitness, business, and personal finance, answering listener-submitted questions. They cover topics ranging from Nick's natural physique to workout routines and investment strategies.

Nick Bare's Natural Physique: Nick addresses the persistent questions about his physique, emphasizing consistent training, diet, and recovery while acknowledging the role of genetics. Sam and Sahil echo the importance of consistent effort and discipline in achieving fitness goals.
Fitness Routines and Time Management: Nick suggests a balanced approach to fitness, combining strength training with a mix of zone 2, zone 3, and HIIT cardio. He recommends 45 minutes to an hour of exercise, 4-5 days a week.
Financial Habits and Investments: Nick relies on a financial advisor for investments, prioritizing growing income streams. Both Nick and Sahil primarily spend on experiences, food, and reinvesting in their businesses.
Sahil's Running Journey: Sahil shares his newfound respect for endurance athletes after transitioning from baseball to running. He details the mental fortitude required for marathons and the importance of consistent training.
Influential Figures and Resources: Nick and Sahil discuss their sources of fitness and nutrition information, including Layne Norton, Huberman, Ben Bruno, Zach Ruchelot, and Jordan Syatt. They also mention resources like Carbon, Examine.com, and PubMed.
Content Creation and Business Strategy: Nick describes his approach to content creation, highlighting the role of his creative director, Jordan. He discusses the evolution of his business, from solo efforts to building a team, and his focus on creating a strong brand.
The CEO Transition: Both Nick and Sam discuss the challenges and rewards of transitioning from CEO to focusing on other aspects of their businesses. They emphasize the importance of trust, empathy, and recognizing the strengths of their CEOs.

Transcript:

Start Time	Speaker	Text
00:00	Sam Parr	Alright everyone, what's happening? This is Sam. So, on today's podcast, I did something very selfish. I've got these two friends: one is named Nick Bare. You probably have seen Nick on Instagram or on YouTube; he's got millions of followers and he owns this company called BPN (Bear Performance Nutrition). They do something like $60,000,000 a year in sales, so he's a really successful entrepreneur. But he's also a fitness fanatic. He looks like a bodybuilder, but he runs a marathon in about 2 hours and 39 minutes, which is a freakish time, especially considering how big he is. Then we have Sahil Bloom, who's another buddy of mine. He's really popular on social media, especially on Twitter. He's a writer, and you’ve probably seen him all over the place. I just nerded out on fitness with these guys. We also talked a little bit about business. We asked the typical questions like, "Where do you guys spend your money? How much do you spend each month? Where do you like to invest your money?" We talked about their companies and how they're growing. We did a lot of business stuff, but most of this was about fitness. I asked them all the fitness questions that I had. I had a bunch of listeners send me questions, and I think it was a great time. It was really fun to learn about what these guys are doing for training. Hopefully, it'll inspire you. So anyway, check out the podcast! Can I ask you? I tweeted out that you guys were coming on, and I got a bunch of questions. They range from personal finance to fitness to business— all types of stuff. I want to ask you both a couple of questions. I'm going to start with one that sounds like the hardest, but I actually think it's the easiest because you answer this all the time. I'll preface this by saying I've seen your father in videos, I've seen your brother in videos, and I've seen you in real life. I think I know what the answer is because I know the genetics that you come from. But someone said, "Generally curious, how can Nick be natural given his performance? Please press him on this." You constantly get asked if you're natural. I know you've answered it constantly, but just humor me for a moment because this was a question that a lot of people asked.
02:00	Nick Bare	I am natural, and I used to address these callouts, questions, and claims all the time because I would get defensive. It was like that since I started creating content. I even went to the extent of sharing blood work every month. I was going in for blood work every month, and I would share it in my videos during my bulk and my cut. People would say, "Oh, he's faking it. He's finding workarounds." I'm like, "Guys..." So I finally have gotten to a point where I'm just over addressing the questions, claims, and hate around it. I'm just going to do my thing. Even in this last marathon, people were saying, "He's using EPO."
02:46	Sahil Bloom	what is that
02:47	Nick Bare	Like blood doping... I'm like, what amateur athlete, you know, that's running marathons, is taking EPO and blood doping?
02:55	Sam Parr	but then you're like how do I how do I get that does anyone have a guy
02:59	Nick Bare	I'm like I'm yeah I'm like who like where do you get epl
03:03	Sam Parr	I don't even know where you'd get that. I mean, I've seen you in real life. You just have... I think you're just a freak genetically. And I would be honored if someone asked if I was on a bunch of stuff. That would make me feel wonderful.
03:17	Sahil Bloom	Dude, also by the way, my thing with this always is that I have a few friends who everyone says this about. They're like, "Oh, they’re definitely not natural." I just know for a fact that that person has outworked me in the gym on a daily basis for the last like 10 years. Excuse my language, but not by a ton, just by a little bit every single day for 10 years. That adds up to something insane, and it looks like a totally different human being. So, when I see a dude that has way bigger shoulders than me or a way bigger chest, I know that they probably did that extra set or those extra 2 reps that I was just like, "Oh, 6 is good," and stopped. I just think it's such a cop-out when people freak out about, "Oh, are you natural or not?" But the reality is...
04:01	Sam Parr	sometimes they don't because genetics are real like for example genetics
04:05	Sahil Bloom	are real but
04:06	Nick Bare	Genetics are definitely a real thing. The bear genetics are solid.
04:12	Sam Parr	Dude, your dad ran like a sub-6 minute mile! I don't remember what age he is, but he was... you know, he was a grown man and he still was huge. Like you guys. And then I saw your brother - your brother looked like he competed in the strongman games. I mean, you guys are just huge.
04:27	Nick Bare	Yeah, so my dad's 60, and my uncle, his brother, is 57. If you saw both of them with their shirts off after running, they've both run marathons and half marathons. I mean, 6-pack abs, chiseled arms, and shoulders. They don't take anything; they're not on TRT or any of that stuff. They're just like farm boys who grew up in central Pennsylvania, milking cows and bailing hay.
04:52	Sam Parr	Well, dude, listen to this. So, Sahil texted me. I nerded out with him and said, "Dude, I just hung out with Nick Bare, and it was amazing." Sahil was like, "Yeah, he looks great, whatever, but how tall is he?" I was like, "I'm pretty sure he's my height or just like an inch shorter, so he's pretty tall." I sent him this picture, and I remember in that photo, I think Nick, you were at your weakest. You were about to run a marathon, and I was at my strongest. Our squats and bench were almost the same. I think you did 225 pounds ahead, and you just looked so much better. We were like, "This sucks that we're kind of comparable, I guess, in terms of strength, but he just has it." He just has it. You just have whatever it is that makes you look good.
05:41	Nick Bare	I I appreciate that
05:42	Sam Parr	genetics are real ari's laughing at me
05:45	Sahil Bloom	helps sam you got you sam you gotta give a tan man you're too pale to you're too pale to have good looking abs
05:50	Sam Parr	That's genetics, man. That's another genetic zip code that he just has. I don't know, everyone in the comments is going to make fun of me for flirting with you, but you know, I'm just saying what people think.
06:00	Nick Bare	Genetics are a real thing. You can take Person A and Person B, with different genetics, the same work ethic, the same diet, and the same training program, and you're not going to get the same results. People send me messages all the time saying, "I eat exactly what you eat. I train exactly what you train. I run exactly the same miles as you," but they don't look the same. Oh yeah, because genetically we are not the same; we have different DNA, so it's going to have different results. It doesn't mean you shouldn't eat right, train, and try to do your best. I will give genetics the credit they deserve. But also, I am one of the most consistent people I know in terms of training, recovery, and diet. My diet is dialed in. I still enjoy myself. My wife and I will go out for dinner; I'll get some drinks, and I'll order the whole menu to try everything. I love food; I'm a big foodie. But my diet, 90% of the time, is so regimented and dialed in. I'm eating my meals when I'm not hungry. I'm eating my meals when I know I need nutrition to fuel my workouts. For me, it is a lifestyle that I truly love and embrace. I can't find this client info.
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07:30	Sam Parr	are you like that sahil are you as dialed in you think
07:34	Sahil Bloom	Yeah, I mean, I probably have a similar wiring to you, Nick. I kind of have an obsessive personality. So when I commit to something or dive in on it, it's going to piss off everyone around me. For example, if we were traveling during the day and I get home at 10 PM but I had a 6-mile run to do, I'm going out at 10 PM to hit that run. It's not a question. And if I get home at midnight, but I'm the type of person that wakes up at 4 AM to get in my cold plunge, I'm waking up at 4 AM and getting in my cold plunge. I feel the same way as you in general on the genetics thing. Although I will say, when people say, "Oh, I do the same workouts as you. I run the same miles. I did the same thing," I call bullshit. I just don't believe it. I've trained super hard my whole life, but there are people that I just know have trained harder than me. I know, in the back of my mind, that I could have probably done 2 more reps on something, but I was working out on my own in my home gym and I just took it easy. That 2 reps compounded over 5 years makes a difference.
08:36	Sahil Bloom	On the topic of time being a lever, I’m honest enough with myself about certain things. For example, with running, I post all my stats, so there’s no hiding. If I’m going to post my Coros screenshot or whatever on my Instagram from any run workout, I can’t hide from whether or not I put in the right amount of effort. But with lifting, I can totally hide from it. You can’t see all the stats exactly on what I did and how many reps I hit or whatever it was. There’s also the accountability that comes with sharing things publicly about your progress. I feel like for you, you’ve been basically doing that for what, 6, 7, 8 years? You’ve been showing your process in public, and the accountability that comes from that is significant. People are out there waiting, like, “Oh, what’s Nick’s next thing? What’s he going after? Is he going to hit his goal?” That adds a whole lot of fire. When you’re running, say, mile 20, and you’re struggling, thinking, “This isn’t for me,” you remember that you have a million people out there who want to see you get this 2:39 done. So, you’re going to go do it.
09:39	Nick Bare	I mean, that's why we included a small clip in the video after that race was over. When you hit your goal in a race or in anything, it feels so good because you know the work that went in. All I kept saying after I got across that finish line at CIM was, "Man, I'm so fucking proud of that. I'm so proud of that one." You know all the work that goes into it: the early mornings, hitting your workouts, making sure you hit your paces, and fueling properly the night before those big workouts. When I was at mile 20, I knew I was running sub 2:40. I just knew I was on pace. I thought, "I could hold on for another 6 miles." I could feel this lump just forming in my throat. It's getting emotional.
10:29	Sam Parr	so I
10:29	Nick Bare	I was thinking, "Man, all this work... this is why I did it." I'm holding 6:05 paces at mile 20 with 6 miles left, like the home stretch. And when you finally hit that goal, and it's because of the work you put in, there is nothing that replaces that feeling.
10:48	Sahil Bloom	My dad and I have been really close my whole life. I played baseball in college, Nick, in case we hadn't talked about that. When I had to retire because I was hurt, the hardest thing was telling my dad. So much of our relationship had been built around the sport, like him coming to all my practices and taking me to all my lessons over the years. He told me at the time, "I don't care. I'm going to be there to cheer you on in whatever your next thing is in life." At my marathon, he surprised me and flew out for it. I remember those last 6 miles; I was hurting so, so bad. All I was thinking the whole time was, "I gotta get to my dad. He's at the finish line. He's there waiting for me." When I crossed the finish line and I had done it—I'd gone sub 3—he was standing there, and I broke down completely. I mean, all of the emotion that you hold in from trying to get to something or struggling through it, hitting your goal, that emotion is completely unparalleled. It's like nothing I've ever experienced in life—just that rush.
11:56	Nick Bare	I think it's why people keep signing up and doing races or committing to hard things. When you finally accomplish it, it's like... I reference this part of a book all the time because I think it's so applicable. In Tim Grover's book Winning, he talks about achieving your first win. When you achieve that first win, no matter what it is, it builds this little ounce of confidence. Then, you set out to achieve another win, but that win is larger and more ambitious. It requires more work and more effort. When you finally get it, it builds even more confidence. You keep applying this over the years, pushing out what that win is and could be. Through the process of succeeding and failing, winning and losing, you build a massive amount of confidence. Eventually, you get to a point where you think, "Oh, I can actually do whatever I want to do." That's a really powerful position to be in.
12:58	Sahil Bloom	That's why I always say there's no such thing as a loser who wakes up at 5 AM and works out. Because it is so hard to do, and if you are losing in life and you're not happy with where you are, get up early and work out.
13:11	Sam Parr	For two weeks, that has pissed me off so much when you say that. I get out of bed at 7 or 8, but I'll be doing stuff until 1 AM. Whenever you see that, I feel so guilty.
13:20	Sahil Bloom	But that is... I'm not saying on the other end that you can't win. I'm saying if you're not happy with your position in life, one of the biggest reasons is that you need to change your self-identity. Right? Like you need to start identifying as a winner. Exactly what Nick said. You need to create evidence that proves to yourself that you're a winner. Waking up early and working out is the easiest way to do that. And like, it still sucks, but if you do that for a week, you immediately are like, "Oh wow, I can do that." That's one hard thing that I do. You start to change your brain chemistry around who you are as a person.
13:48	Sam Parr	Dude, I feel so shitty. I'll wake up, I'll look at Instagram and I'll be like, "Alright, I just got up at 8." And then I see Nick's post and it's like... I think on Saturday or something, it's like dude, he just ran 8 miles already.
14:00	Sahil Bloom	just ran 72 miles at a 6 15 pace
14:02	Sam Parr	he'll he like his instagram post I I'm a
14:05	Sahil Bloom	chen fed his daughter a great meal
14:08	Sam Parr	Yeah, like he does all this probably even a week. But in my head, I'm like, "That guy is going to bed at 9." Though, I'm going to mess them up between 10 and... what? I...
14:16	Nick Bare	I am a morning person; I am not a night owl by any means. But now, my daughter's born and she's getting older. If I don't wake up at 5 and work out, there's a chance it might not get done. Right now, we're going through a sleep regression where she's waking up at the oddest times and screaming her head off in the night. So, like last night, I woke up in the middle of the night, gave her a bottle, and put her down. She didn't want me to leave her room, so I ended up sleeping the rest of the night next to her crib. My alarm went off at 5, and I was like, "Alright, here we go." I went downstairs, went through my routine, and went out for my run.
14:54	Sam Parr	Ugh, there's nothing that makes me more sick to my stomach than morning air. Let me ask you guys a quick question. This is meant for Nick, but Sal, I want to hear your answer too. Nick covers all fitness and diet stuff extensively on his channel, but I want to know his monthly burn. So, where does he spend his money on and where does he put his money? Where does he invest his money outside of BPM?
15:17	Nick Bare	So, investing-wise, at this point in my life, I haven't reached a stage where I have any personal interest in investing. I just hire a financial adviser, and he takes care of all of my investments for me. Maybe at some point, I'll actually be curious and explore that curiosity. But, like, I work with a guy who makes...
15:36	Sam Parr	the budget funds probably
15:37	Nick Bare	Yeah, I'm just like, "Take this money, put it where you think it's gonna make me some money." Other than that, I mean, most of my money that I'm spending is either going towards: - My mortgage - Investing back into the business - My personal brand - And mainly food, to be honest... like me and my wife
15:57	Sam Parr	spend per month on food
15:59	Nick Bare	Just groceries? Maybe it's hard to say because we'll do one big grocery haul a week. I go to the grocery store every other day, and I'm going to these exclusive butcher shops here in Nashville. So maybe I spend around $2,000 to $2,500 a month on groceries. But then we're going out to dinner, and when we do, we want every appetizer, every entrée. We're going to sample stuff and get a few cocktails. That's our thing; we love it.
16:29	Sam Parr	sure
16:31	Nick Bare	Experiences like that. We'll do some big vacations every year. I'm not going out and buying a lot of materialistic things right now; it's more so on experiences.
16:40	Sahil Bloom	so you haven't gotten on the no alcohol train nick
16:42	Nick Bare	Nope, to be honest, I really have no interest in the "no alcohol" train. I'm not a big drinker, but if my wife and I are going on a date night on Thursday (because Thursday is our date night), I'll get one drink, maybe two drinks. But I really, really never drink over two drinks ever.
17:06	Sam Parr	wait do you drink sahyo
17:08	Sahil Bloom	I'm the same way as Nick. I think when it enhances the experience with the person you're with, I love it. I've cut all drinking by myself at home out of my life.
17:23	Nick Bare	I don't do any drinking by myself, but if I'm with a group of people and we're having an old fashioned or opening a bottle of wine, I do think it enhances the experience. Conversation's always good, and it lightens the mood a little bit and just allows you to relax.
17:43	Sam Parr	What’s your answer to that question, Sahil? What do you do with your money? Do you do the same thing I do? Are you just in Vanguard index funds?
17:51	Sahil Bloom	Yeah, I mean, we were... I was much more fun with my money when I was in my private equity days because then it was like, I don't know, I was just freewheeling in my twenties doing whatever the hell I wanted. And then we had a kid and I was like, "I should probably start just being really boring with this." I feel like you influenced me in this... we're in this group chat altogether with a bunch of absolute degenerates.
18:12	Sam Parr	total
18:13	Sahil Bloom	And they all like sling their money into the most degenerate stuff. They're always texting the thread, "This is the best new opportunity!"
18:20	Sam Parr	I would buy like $1,000,000 of aluminum or $1,000,000 of some stuff that I'd never even heard of.
18:27	Sahil Bloom	And without fail, by the way, like six months later, it's at its all-time low. This thing just absolutely tanks.
18:34	Sam Parr	Yeah, it's stupid. Or they'll short stuff or whatever. I don't even know what they do, but it's like these terminologies that I don't even understand.
18:42	Sahil Bloom	I mean, it goes back to the fundamental thing: you should spend more time figuring out how to increase your income versus what your returns are investing. For the vast majority of people, that's a much bigger lever for your long-term financial wealth.
18:56	Nick Bare	That’s what I did for a while. I just focused on how to make more money and how to build revenue streams. Then it got to a point where I was finally ready to start investing. I was able to invest or put away a lot of money each month that I didn’t need to spend or have liquid.
19:15	Sahil Bloom	Yeah, and it's just like... I just like to not have to think about where that is, though. Like, I do that too. I just want it to sit in... I basically want it to just track an index and just go sit there. But to the burn question, Sam: we probably spend like, I don't know, $20-30 a month or something like that, all in on everything. And grocery is probably similar to Nick's. We probably spend $3-5k a month on food.
19:40	Sam Parr	I don't even know what my monthly spend is at the moment, but maybe $20. I can see why New York would be significantly higher, though.
19:49	Sahil Bloom	you're about to get on the northeast grind right
19:52	Sam Parr	Yeah, I'm thinking about moving up there and I'm looking at the difference in prices. It's... it's pretty meaningful compared to Texas.
20:02	Nick Bare	are they are they not going to the city
20:04	Sam Parr	So, my in-laws live around Manhattan, and I frankly hate Manhattan. I like Brooklyn, but I have a newborn. I think that we will likely do the most boujee thing on earth. There's a town called Westport, Connecticut. It's next to Greenwich, Connecticut. So, you could say I'm going to be moved to Greenwich, Connecticut, which is like "clique" tennis courts and white skirts and stuff like that. But I think we're going to... yeah, I'm testing it out. I rented a place for a few weeks in late January just to see what it's like. I'm looking at what the rent is for a comparable home to where I am now because I don't want to buy at the moment. It's like $20 a month in rent. I mean, it's just crazy.
20:49	Sahil Bloom	The biggest reason, by the way, that Sam's not saying for why he's moving here is because it's like 20 minutes from me. We have a long-term plan for my son, Roman, and his daughter, Naomi, to start building the Parblum Empire here. So, we need to start cultivating it early in their young years.
21:06	Sam Parr	Yeah, I'm okay with that. We're just planning ahead. Lavaira, let me ask you guys another question. This is a two-parter. First, what do most people get wrong about health and fitness? What makes you want to throw your computer out the window when people say it online? The second thing is, I would love an honest assessment of time requirements. What's the best bang for your buck for workouts? A lot of us listening are entrepreneurs, and we don't have a ton of time. So, what's the best bang for your buck? So, it's a two-parter.
21:39	Nick Bare	I'm the... like I can answer both probably in one answer. I think most people think that they need to spend like an hour running a day and an hour strength training a day. So everyone thinks they have to spend like 2 hours training a day. But I think you could easily split that into 45 minutes to an hour a day, split between strength and endurance training, and get a really, really solid workout. I think you have to have some sort of level of cardiovascular conditioning as well as strength in your programming.
22:15	Sam Parr	When you say cardiovascular, do you mean: - Like HIIT (High-Intensity Interval Training)? - A 60-minute Berries [possibly Barry's Bootcamp] class? - A Berries Bootcamp class or something like that? - A bodyweight workout? - Walking? - Zone 2 steady-pace stuff?
22:27	Nick Bare	I'd say it's a mixture between Zone 2 and Zone 3 because, to be honest, most people aren't spending their time in Zone 2. Zone 2 is actually like super low, and which is...
22:36	Sam Parr	like what a 130 beats per minute for like a 30 year old
22:39	Nick Bare	Yeah, it's low, and most people are not doing any zone 2 training. So, I like...
22:46	Sam Parr	for what's the benefit of zone 2 though
22:48	Nick Bare	aerobic base building
22:50	Sam Parr	But what's that mean? Does that make me live longer? Does that make me less likely to have a heart attack? What's it do?
22:55	Nick Bare	All those things help cardiovascular health. They help build your aerobic foundation so that you can utilize oxygen more efficiently. You're not going to run a sub-3 hour marathon by just doing speed work. You need that aerobic base building, where your body learns how to utilize oxygen at a more effective and efficient rate, using fuel sources appropriately alongside it. I'd say a split for cardiovascular conditioning should be about 70 to 80% of that training in your aerobic zone, whether that's Zone 2 or Zone 3, which is lighter—like walking, hiking, or jogging. Then, 20 to 30% of your cardiovascular conditioning should be more high-intensity interval training (HIIT). You can do a Barry's Bootcamp, or my wife does SoulCycle. You could hop on your Peloton and do some sprints or speed workouts, where your heart rate is elevated, focusing on lactate threshold type stuff. If you split your cardiovascular training between aerobic zones and some HIIT, and then incorporate compound movements with strength training—doing some heavier movements with free weights, barbells, or machines—you don't need to spend 2 hours every day. You can spend 45 minutes to an hour, you know, 4 to 5 days a week. I personally love to train, so I'm working out every day of the week, doing something to move my body.
24:34	Sam Parr	For strength training, what do you say? Do you tell people to do the 5 by 5? What's your suggestion? Just squat, deadlift, bench? What do you do?
24:44	Nick Bare	I mean there's a lot of different ways to approach it like right now I personally enjoy the push pull leg split which is a a 3 day split you can do 3 workouts a week or you can do 6 workouts a week so like a push day would be all pushing movements it'd be chest focused shoulders triceps pushing being upper body and then a pull day would be back biceps movements like rows all upper body again and then your lower day is lower body legs quads hamstrings glutes I like starting every strength workout with some some warm up movements and then going into a a heavy working compound movement exercise like a barbell squat you do a deadlift you do a hex bar deadlift bench press or dumbbell chest press and then having some accessory movements alongside of that to support the development of the muscles that you're utilizing for those big compound movements so that's the way I like to approach cardiovascular and then strength training I don't personally like to mix the 2 like the the crossfit approach I've never fallen in love with that like when I'm strength training I like strength training and when I'm doing my cardio I like cardio but I don't I don't like like doing them together I like when they're separate and distinct and separated now moving on to I think where like what irks me about the fitness space I actually made a post about this yesterday because everyone going into a new year is gonna have new training and diet goals everyone thinks that like there's this new thing that they're gonna do that's gonna change their life it's gonna change their body it's gonna change their health so january 1st starts people are thinking I need to do something new what should I do I'm gonna do carnivore now I'm gonna do keto I'm gonna I'm gonna go like strictly bodybuilding no I'm just gonna like just gonna run so people go to these extremes thinking it's like the magic pill they haven't tried yet that's gonna unlock this hidden potential that was just disguised by everything else they were doing previously and the reality is like that's not going to change anything if it does like the the changes are incremental but what makes this compounding change in your life and your fitness is your health is just being consistent with eating better drinking more water moving your body that's why everyone's talking about getting in more steps when you're getting in more steps you're just being more active going to the gym on a regular consistent basis it's creating creating habits and routines in your life that help you facilitate these healthy habits on a consistent and regular routine
27:36	Sam Parr	Sean was telling me that he was talking to (or he saw) the guy who started Slice. It's like a pizza app. He said, "Between January 1st and January 11th, our sales slump." And he goes on, "January 12th, that's national quitting day." He continued, "We see all-time high sales for people ordering pizza because everyone from their New Year's resolution is giving in on January 12th." That's where it ends.
27:58	Nick Bare	11 days that's wild
27:59	Sahil Bloom	We owned a ton of Planet Fitness locations back in the day, and those first 10 days of the year are like rainmaker season. You're just sitting there watching the fees pour in, praying to the rain gods for all the money that's coming in. Then, inevitably, those people just don't end up going to the gym.
28:19	Sam Parr	They still pay. Yeah, they still buy that. Planet Fitness makes you... the Planet Fitness business model, dude. They make it possible to cancel.
28:26	Sahil Bloom	Like, yeah, and then you get like 10,000 members for a gym. Maybe like, you know, 5 to 10% of them actually use it regularly. So the equipment doesn't have to get refreshed that often. It's like, I mean, it's an incredible business model.
28:38	Sam Parr	Alright, here's a question for Sahil. So, we didn't even mention this, but Sahil, you mentioned that you were a baseball player. I was a runner all through high school and college. The baseball players were usually the douches who made fun of the runners because of our shorts. About a year ago, you got into running. You made all these grand claims about the times that you were going to run. You said you were going to break 18 minutes in the 5K. I thought, "You're an idiot, dude. You don't know what the hell you're talking about." Turns out, you were completely right. You nailed all of it. You crushed it in running. Someone asked what the biggest... so, at this point, by the way, you're a pretty successful runner for the weekend warrior category. You're like top in that category, which sounds like a left-handed compliment. That's not what it was supposed to be; that was a compliment.
29:25	Sahil Bloom	I take that that's good
29:26	Sam Parr	that was a compliment someone said what's the biggest surprise sahil's learned from getting more into running
29:31	Sahil Bloom	Honestly, it goes back to what you said. When I was in high school, I thought runners were nerds. In my mind, it was like the nerdiest sport. I couldn't imagine running or being into it. I was like, "Oh, it's not a team sport; it doesn't seem hard," whatever. I have developed unbelievable respect for endurance athletes and for runners from having gone through this. I mean, a few reasons. First off, the training is so many hours and so monotonous. You have to fall in love with the long, slow runs. In baseball, it was all intensity, so you can get excited about a really fast sprint, you know, as a pitcher during a bullpen session or whatever. But with running, if you're going to be a marathoner, you have to love the 22-mile run at an 8:30 pace. It's just zero fun. You have to fall in love with that and be willing to do it over and over again in order to become a great amateur or to become elite, you know, like on Nick's level and above. You have to do it consistently over a long period.
30:35	Sahil Bloom	Of time, and then the second one is just like the mental fortitude to pull through a race is badass. It hurts so bad. I mean, I would argue that the 5K is the most painful. I did my personal records (PRs) of a 2:57 marathon, which was painful, but in a "your legs are cramping" kind of way where you just need to grit your teeth to the finish. I ran a 4:59 mile, which honestly didn't hurt that bad because it was too short to hurt. It was just over before it could really start to hurt. You’re breathing really fast, but it didn't hurt that bad. However, the 5K, which I ran in 17:52, was like excruciating pain. Absolutely. The last 5 laps of that were the most miserable experience, maybe of my life. Just past your lactate threshold, awful. The mental fortitude that runners have, and that endurance athletes have to grind through that, I now no longer think runners are nerds. I think it is legit badassery, especially when it's a runner that has body weight on them. I think it's unbelievable.
31:36	Nick Bare	Well, the runner has evolved over the years too. Running has become so popular in the past couple of years. It's... do.
31:48	Sam Parr	You think it's because of people like you? I mean, I think that you've created a huge trend. It's now macho to be a runner.
31:56	Nick Bare	Yeah, I do think that like COVID and the pandemic definitely contributed to a lot of that. Gyms were closed down, and this is why a lot of my content actually started growing. I was pumping out running content for like a year and a half before the pandemic hit. Then the pandemic hits, all these gyms close, and people have nowhere to work out and train. They need it for their physical health but also their mental health. So, people start running and looking for running content, and my content blew up during that time because everyone was looking for how to run. Especially, you know, people who were focused on strength now transitioning and evolving towards running. I mean, I think running has become core because there's a different look to running now. You can carry more weight; you can look like a bodybuilder or a strength athlete. There are these different parts of running that exist. The ultra scene has come up, and I didn't know what ultra running was years ago. You have these badass disruptive races. Have you guys heard of the Speed Project?
33:04	Sam Parr	no what's that
33:04	Nick Bare	No, so the Speed Project is like this underground race that happens. You start in LA and it goes to Las Vegas. There are no spectators and no rules; you just get there as fast as possible. It's a relay race, so you have a team of, say, maybe six people. I think it's about 300 miles, and someone has to be running all the time.
33:30	Sam Parr	holy shit
33:31	Nick Bare	But it's like super disruptive. Really aggressive in your face look and feel. It's badass. And then you have races like, have you guys heard of the Barclay Marathons?
33:41	Sam Parr	no what are these
33:42	Nick Bare	Dude, you guys need to watch this documentary tonight. It's called Where Dreams Go to Die.
33:49	Sam Parr	oh I
33:49	Sahil Bloom	have seen this
33:50	Nick Bare	And this race happens in Tennessee. I think there are five loops, and it's run by this guy named Laz. You can't have a GPS watch or any sort of sense of where the route is. You're given a map, and the map has points on it. There's no trail, and you're given a bib number. So, say your bib number is 13. On this map, you have to go find all these points before you come back to the checkpoint. At each point on the map is a book, and you have to pull out the corresponding page with your bib number and bring it back to Laz after each loop to be able to go out and start again. I think there were like six years where no one finished; no one won.
34:41	Sahil Bloom	yeah it's like 15 runners in 38 years
34:43	Sam Parr	Dude, that sounds like a pain in the butt. I'm not trying to learn how to read maps; I just want to look good naked. Like, bye.
34:49	Sahil Bloom	The way I see it, running to Nick's has definitely changed in public perception. More and more now, I'm like, I used to think, "Oh, okay, lifting, like deadlifting." To me, I'm like, "Oh, it's so primal." Deadlifting is like, you gotta pick a car up off of your wife or off of your kid; you gotta get it up off of them in order to save their life. Now, I add running to that. I'm like, if you can't go run super fast to call for help when someone's in trouble, that's super primal too. It's like, you gotta pick the car up, and then you gotta go run two miles to get help from the nearest aid station.
35:24	Sam Parr	We had Scott Galloway on, Nick. Scott Galloway, who's like a big health entrepreneur or whatever, and he said something that was brilliant. He's like a poet; he's really good with words. He said: > "My fitness regime: I want to be able to kill and eat most everyone in a room or outrun them." And I was like, "I like that. That's great!" I love that. It sounds like a very practical way to exercise. I enjoy that.
35:53	Sahil Bloom	Have you seen Theo Vaughn on Joe Rogan talking about who he would eat in a plane crash? If you haven't seen it, it's like one of the funniest Theo Vaughn clips I've ever seen.
36:03	Sam Parr	Let me... alright, I'll ask one or two more. So, someone asked: > "Do you guys religiously stick to your programming, and do you ever create the programming yourself?"
36:15	Nick Bare	It really depends on, for me, what I'm training for. If I have a very specific goal, then my training program is specialized to get to that specific goal. For my marathon prep, working with Jeff Cunningham, he would give me my workouts for the week, and I would hit those workouts to a tee. I wouldn't miss or skip anything. I mean, there have been times where Jeff has accidentally sent me my workouts with wrong paces. I look at them and think, "Oh shit, this seems fast," and I go out and hit them. He said, "What are you doing?" I'm like, "You sent this over to me." He's like, "Oh, that's a typo." So, if you send the program when I'm in a prep, I'm doing whatever you tell me to do. But outside of that, I have a lot of flexibility. Like today, I woke up and thought about how my body feels and how far I want to run. I went and ran 10 miles. Sometimes, in the middle of the run, like 2 to 3 miles in, I decide how far I'm going to run based on how I feel. That's called auto-regulation. You adjust your training programming based on your recovery, how you're feeling, and how well you slept, among other things. So, a lot of my training now is flexible, but it's not as rigid because I don't have a specific competition goal at the moment.
37:34	Sam Parr	what about you sajo
37:36	Sahil Bloom	I need someone else to write the programs for me; otherwise, I don't take them seriously. I need to pay for them. I've found that when I pay for something, I take it way more seriously. So, for my marathon training, I had no program. I was just running with my neighbor, Brian Maza, who's also a fitness influencer and personality really into hybrid training. I started running with him without a program, and then I got connected on text with Nick. I said, "Nick, I want to run a sub-3 hour marathon. What's a workout I should do?" Nick replied and said, "Try doing this." At the time, I don't think I had run over 16 miles. Nick suggested a 22-mile run: 6 miles easy to warm up, then 4 rounds of 3 miles at 6:30 pace with 1 mile at 7:10 float. He said, "If you can do that, you'll feel good about being able to run sub-3." I had never done anything close to that, but that weekend, I had the same feeling as what you said with your trainer, Nick, where I thought, "Alright, I gotta go do that, I guess." So, I went out and hit that, and then I started following Nick's marathon program as a result. That got me through it.
38:47	Sam Parr	Wow, I do the same thing by the way. I've got a guy that does my programming here in Austin. His name's Jesse at Central Athlete, and it's expensive. I think I pay $400 a month, and I only... I do everything that I'm told because I'm paying money for it. If I weren't taking it seriously, I wouldn't go. My intensity would be lower. I'd be like, "Dude, I can't do this." It's like, well, Jesse told me I have to do it, therefore I will do it. Alright, last question.
39:15	Sahil Bloom	you get nutrition coaching too tim
39:17	Sam Parr	Nutrition coaching... Yeah, I use MyBodyTutor. It's basically a service where, when I was really into it, I would call them for 5 minutes every single day. They would be like, "Alright, what's the plan today?" You have a quarterly plan, like, "I want to lose weight, gain weight, I don't want to eat this, I do want to eat this," whatever. And it's like, "Alright, what's your plan today in order to hit your goals?" You would have to show them, and then they review your MyFitnessPal every night. They would say, "Alright, you're doing everything according to plan." So it kind of guilted me into doing it, but it also taught me a lot. For example, I didn't know that you had to get a gram of protein per pound of body weight. I didn't know any of that stuff, and so they educated me.
40:01	Nick Bare	I think tracking nutrition can be super beneficial for people just getting into health and fitness. It teaches them about serving sizes, macronutrients, and total calories.
40:12	Sam Parr	Well, I started weighing my food after I saw Nick do it on some of your videos. You were like... and I thought weighing your food was cumbersome, but I just saw you have a bowl on top of the scale and when you were pouring the chicken in there, you'd say, "I just need about half a pound," and you just pour it in there. I'm like, "Oh cool, that was really simple and easy." You just poured it right into the bowl and put it in the microwave, and it was very easy to track. So I actually started doing it after I saw your videos.
40:34	Nick Bare	Yeah, I don't track my nutrition right now, but I still weigh my food just for serving size allocation.
40:43	Sam Parr	Yeah, and now I know. But now I just buy, like, if I buy red meat, I buy it by the pound. I know that a pound of red meat reduces to 0.7, and I know what's in 0.7 of, you know, ground beef or 0.7 of chicken. So, yeah, that's how I do a lot of it now for weighing. Last question, this is from me. I'm actually curious: who influences you guys, and what sources do you turn to? For example, there's this guy... what's the guy on Instagram? I think his name is Biolane. What's his name?
41:13	Nick Bare	yeah layne norton
41:14	Sam Parr	Layne Norton... Layne Norton. Great. So, it's like... you know, the New York Times did an article where they're like, "Now everyone has their own fitness guru who they trust." And so, like, Huberman is a guy for someone, Nick, you're a guy for someone probably where I'm like, "If they say this, I do what they say." Who are your gurus, your fitness guys that you trust for health and nutrition? And what sources do you use?
41:38	Nick Bare	Layne Norton is definitely one for me. What I like about Layne is, if anyone's ever saying something and it seems so ridiculous and bold and new and fresh, I will literally go over to Layne's platform and wait for him to do a response... because he typically does.
41:57	Sam Parr	I love his carnivore stuff. And like the guy who says, "Vegetables are bad for you," like that's great.
42:03	Nick Bare	Yeah, Lane has a really holistic, science-based approach to health and nutrition. He also has a really good app called Carbon that is great for people who want to track their nutrition and reach their fitness goals. Fitness-wise, I follow Lane and listen to some Huberman stuff. I'm typically just... I don't have one person I'm following for fitness and nutrition. I'm kind of just having a pulse and feeling what's out there. If I hear about something, I'll go do my own research. So, I'll read the actual articles and peer-reviewed literature to see what is out there.
42:40	Sam Parr	Have you heard of Perplexity? I've been using it for that. It's been kind of cool. It's like a ChatGPT for studies.
42:48	Nick Bare	interesting perplexity
42:50	Sam Parr	Yeah, I have it bookmarked here: Perplexity. They do a bad job of explaining what it is, but they basically review tons of different studies so you don't have to read all of them. You can ask it a question like, "Is aspartame proven to give cancer?" and it'll say, "Well, of all these studies, here's the summary."
43:11	Nick Bare	I'll check that out lane has one called reps I also use examine.com
43:16	Sam Parr	same love them
43:17	Nick Bare	Examine.com is really good, and then I'll just go to PubMed and read the articles there, especially for fitness. That's where I'm pulling a lot of my info from. Outside of fitness, I just listen to audiobooks. Like, whenever I'm running, I'm typically listening to an audiobook.
43:37	Sam Parr	and that's crazy to me that's insane to me that you do that
43:41	Nick Bare	you you can't do that
43:43	Sam Parr	Dude, no. Like: a) I go pay attention, and b) I usually... what I like to do is, when I go for a run, I know how many beats per minute songs [I need]. You know, songs that are a certain beat per minute, and so my stride will go to that beat per minute. You know what I mean? Which is typically like... around 80 or 85 beats per minute.
44:05	Nick Bare	I used to do that when I first started running. I would listen to an audiobook for like 10 miles. I forget I'm running for 10 miles. Yeah, I just...
44:14	Sahil Bloom	I listened to an audiobook during the marathon. I did the exact same thing. I listened to The Martian by Andy Weir, the sci-fi dude.
44:21	Sam Parr	you guys are so weird that is so weird to me
44:25	Nick Bare	Dude, you know what book I just finished that I can't recommend enough? It's called Trust by Henry Cloud. If you guys haven't read that yet or heard of it, I mean, maybe it's just hitting me at the right time in my life, but it is a powerful, good book.
44:40	Sam Parr	what is it
44:41	Nick Bare	It's all about how to evaluate relationships and trust, how to regain or rebuild trust when you've been betrayed, and what to look for in trusting someone. A lot of the times we think that trust is someone who just won't lie, steal, or cheat. So we'll hire people, we'll bring people onto our team who meet those requirements: "Oh, they don't lie, steal, or cheat. I can trust them." Well, can we trust them in the capacity of the role that we're expecting them to perform?
45:11	Sam Parr	Dude, this is serial killer shit that you could listen to a self-help book while you're... while you're like running a marathon. I think that's so weird. Like, I would read this much.
45:22	Sahil Bloom	you went no headphones for the marathon right nick
45:24	Nick Bare	yeah yeah I I did no headphones
45:27	Sam Parr	that's what ballers do sahil like if if you yeah
45:30	Sahil Bloom	that is what ballers do I grew up everyone in cross country will definitely give you shit
45:33	Nick Bare	yeah
45:34	Sam Parr	If you go to a cross-country practice or something and you go run with headphones on, the hardcore runners will totally mock you. But I do it anyway because I'm like, "This is fun for me. I'm doing what I want." I'm not gonna be hardcore.
45:45	Sahil Bloom	For Nick said at the beginning, by the way, which is like when you publicly state you're going to hit some sort of goals, the running hardcore will definitely talk crap and troll you until you post proof that you actually did it. Then you kind of like have earned enough clout. I sort of feel like everyone made fun of me for getting into running, and then I posted some actual verifiable stats. Now, I'm like a solid amateur, and people can't really make fun of me anymore. So now you've like earned the respect of the crew, like the cool kids in the cafeteria. So now, they can't come beat you up.
46:20	Nick Bare	so that's a real thing that actually happens yeah
46:22	Sam Parr	what's your what's your answer to that
46:24	Sahil Bloom	what's my answer to where I go to
46:27	Sam Parr	yeah and who influences you who's like your your person
46:31	Sahil Bloom	I mean, I grew up with my baseball training. I was the first client of this guy named Eric Cressey, who has now become pretty famous. He's the performance coach for the Yankees and is now like the Major League Baseball strength guy. He trains Max Scherzer, Justin Verlander, and all of the who's who of baseball. That guy...
46:49	Sam Parr	who guy is the worst person to get fitness advice from that's like the fattest no but he was like
46:54	Sahil Bloom	No, he was like the first guy to really bring strength and performance training to baseball. It was that... it was like the fat guys or the steroid era guys who were just meatheads, and he brought true performance training to the sport. Which now is like the real driver of why every guy throws 100 miles an hour, like guys are hitting absolute tanks all the time. He was really the pioneer of that. I mean, he's been on like Tim Ferriss' podcast. He's really, really big time and a close friend. Incredible.
47:20	Sam Parr	and then
47:21	Sahil Bloom	There's this guy, Ben Bruno, who is like a celebrity trainer with a pretty big Instagram presence. He's more focused on stuff for regular people to actually implement in their life training. I just love that stuff because it's kind of a cool blend of the more extreme things that I like doing with the actionable stuff that people can actually take as advice.
47:43	Sam Parr	yeah bette bruno he's got like the like the everyday rip guy vibe
47:48	Sahil Bloom	He's super strong functionally and trains like insane. [He] legit [trains] celebrities out of a 150 square foot gym in his garage.
47:59	Sam Parr	yeah here's him with justin timberlake
48:01	Sahil Bloom	Yeah, Timberlake is like one of his good friends. He rolls up there and trains with him. He's incredible. Then, on diet stuff, there's this guy, Zach, I think Ruchelot is how you pronounce his last name. His Instagram handle is "The Flexible Dieting Lifestyle." He just posts like insane macro recipes—basically things that are delicious but don't completely screw up your diet. I just nerd out on that kind of stuff.
48:25	Nick Bare	he's he's austin texas based
48:27	Sahil Bloom	yeah he's austin based yeah
48:29	Sam Parr	dude nick you you probably know like half these guys out of that
48:32	Nick Bare	I know, I know Zach. I know Zach personally. You know who else is really good for like general health information, health and fitness information for people just getting started? It's Jordan Syatt.
48:43	Sam Parr	jordan mhmm
48:44	Nick Bare	jordan syatt
48:45	Sahil Bloom	So, Jordan was an intern at Eric Cressey's gym. Jordan is from my year in high school. He went to Lincoln-Sudbury High School, which was like our rival high school. He was an intern at Cressey's gym when I was training there. So, I've known Jordan since we were kids. Wow!
48:59	Nick Bare	hey yeah he's he's he's got good stuff
49:02	Sam Parr	by the way
49:02	Sahil Bloom	I he was gary v's trainer
49:04	Sam Parr	Oh yeah, I saw that. I just went to this guy, the Flexible Dieting Lifestyle, and I'm typing all this in as you guys are talking. I'll do a little flex... I go to follow this guy and it says "Follow back."
49:15	Nick Bare	oh yeah
49:18	Sam Parr	that's awesome
49:19	Sahil Bloom	zach is awesome the protein ice cream recipes are like the best thing in the world
49:23	Sam Parr	yeah he this is a great instagram this guy kills it
49:27	Nick Bare	do you have a creami at home ninja creamy
49:30	Sahil Bloom	I do oh it's the best one of our best purchases my wife and I like every saturday
49:34	Nick Bare	The Ninja Creamy... you can make like protein ice cream with it. They got popular based off of TikTok early on, and they were sold out for months. Then they finally came back on the market and we purchased one.
49:48	Sam Parr	Well, I used to do that. So, what I do with your VPN is, I like to do a scent protein with just water. Then, I use VPN to eat. For example, I'll mix it with some type of liquid and I'll microwave VPN. It's almost like I'm eating... I don't know, I mean, it's like a dessert. You gave me the key lime pie flavor and then you gave me a birthday cake flavor. I think the birthday cake flavor is discontinued. We would microwave it and just eat it, and it was like a souffle or something. Now, I guess I'll use VPN for this creaminess.
50:20	Sahil Bloom	Sam, I will change your life right now: - 2 cups of whole milk (like Fairlife whole milk) - A scoop of VPN vanilla - Maybe like 2 tiny little packets of stevia - Some sugar-free vanilla pudding mix Freeze it overnight, put it into the Ninja Creami, and it is literally identical to a vanilla McDonald's McFlurry.
50:44	Sam Parr	really
50:44	Sahil Bloom	It comes out insane! Then you can put a couple of Oreo Thins in there and get a legit McDonald's McFlurry that has like 40 grams of protein and is great for you.
50:53	Sam Parr	shoot this is awesome I'm like literally writing all this down and I'm I just add the creamy to my cart
50:58	Sahil Bloom	it will change your life I'm not joking
51:00	Nick Bare	It is pretty wild. I did it for the first time, and I only mixed it once. It came out, and I was like, "What's this?"
51:06	Sahil Bloom	you gotta go twice
51:06	Nick Bare	I did it twice completely different thing the set after like one more mix
51:11	Sahil Bloom	Light ice cream setting: Once you open it up, pour in a tiny amount (about a tablespoon) of whole milk, and then blend it on the light ice cream setting again. It makes the perfect consistency. Alright!
51:22	Sam Parr	I literally just bought it off amazon the creamy and now I only have
51:26	Sahil Bloom	it's the best
51:26	Sam Parr	I gotta get vpn vanilla now because I only did chocolate birthday cake and key lime pie
51:32	Sahil Bloom	I wanna hear about this 239 though I'm gonna nerd out on this
51:35	Sam Parr	yeah so nick you're trying to run 239 now for the marathon right
51:39	Nick Bare	no I just did so
51:40	Sam Parr	you just did
51:41	Nick Bare	At CIM, which is the California International Marathon that was on December 3rd, I ran a 2:30:9:20. When I went into that prep, I was shooting for a sub-2:45, and sub-2:45 is about a 6:15 minute per mile pace. I ended up doing a 6:05 minute per mile pace for all 26.2 of those miles.
52:04	Sahil Bloom	Can you just walk through your progression on the marathon stuff? Because I feel like I've seen a video. I mean, I only started running in March, and someone mentioned your name as soon as I started getting into running. They said you were the person pioneering this whole idea of being a hybrid athlete. It's kind of become an "in vogue" thing now, but basically, it's about being a guy who can be both jacked and fit in cardio activities—not CrossFit, but actual strength-related stuff and then running. I remember seeing a video of you running a 4-hour marathon, and then your progression from that to running maybe sub-3 for the first time. Can you just walk through what your progression has been from start to finish on the different marathons you've done?
52:45	Nick Bare	Yeah, well first off, when you and I first started talking, you said you wanted to do a sub-3 for your first marathon.
52:52	Sam Parr	I thought he was crazy when he said that
52:53	Nick Bare	Dude, so did I! I was like, "Man, that's a bold move," but you did it. So, congratulations on that! But yeah, my marathon progression... My first marathon was in 2018. It was about a year after I got out of the military. What's funny is, the day I got out of the military, I said I would never run a day in my life again. And about a year later, I was running my first marathon. Here we are, like thousands of miles later. But in 2018, at the Austin Marathon, I ran a 3:57, which was just an absolute dumpster fire.
53:31	Sam Parr	but you weighed like 225 right
53:33	Nick Bare	I was like 225. I didn't have a training program. I was a bodybuilder; I just wanted to be as big and yoked as possible. I ran this marathon, and after mile 16, I hit the wall. It was just all downhill from there. A year later, I signed up for the Austin Marathon again, using the same training program, which was a lack thereof. I ran a 4 hour, 15 minute marathon, so I ran 18 minutes slower than the previous year. After that, I signed up for my first Ironman. I trained for an Ironman, did Ironman Florida, and actually started to learn what it takes to build endurance and get better at endurance events and races.
54:16	Sam Parr	you broke 12 hours in that one
54:17	Nick Bare	Yeah, I did my Ironman Florida in 11:28, but I ran the marathon in 4 hours and 4 minutes. The reason that was so significant was that I looked back at my previous two marathons and thought, "Man, after I just swam and biked, I was able to run a pretty decent marathon." So, I told myself I want to run a sub-3 hour marathon, and that was the goal. I posted this online, saying, "I'm doing a sub-3 hour marathon," and the internet trolls and activity just blew up. I mean, there are forums on Let's Run, there are forums on Reddit, and everyone was like, "This guy will not run a sub-3 hour marathon." So then I signed up for the Austin Marathon again. I followed a training program; it was a better prep. But even in my head, I was like, "I'm not in sub-3 shape." However, at the starting line, I told myself, "You can mentally outwill anything." I was like, "If I just... I can mentally overcome the physical weakness that I have to run the sub-3 hour marathon."
55:24	Sam Parr	and what's sub 3 is sub 3 650 per mile
55:27	Sahil Bloom	I think 6:51 is like 25:59. If you sneak in under one second... and the only reason I know that is because of exactly what Nick said about mine. That everyone was like, "Dude, there's no way!" So I knew in my mind like I just have to keep this under 6:51 on my watch face and I'm gonna be fine.
55:43	Nick Bare	See, I like banking time. I always like saving time, so at the end, if I need it, I have it.
55:49	Sahil Bloom	...which is the opposite of what real runners tell you to do. I did the same thing, by the way. I went out way too fast and then was just hanging on for dear life, doing the math in my head: "Okay, if I run like a 10-minute mile here, I'm still gonna make it."
56:02	Sam Parr	I'm still... because there's the, like, they call it "the wall." The wall is basically, I think, when you burn 1,800 or 2,100 calories or something like that. And you start going into what's it called, where you like start using muscle as energy, I believe. Or is it ketosis? Yeah, yeah. And that's when that wall is where you're like, "I can't go any further." Usually, that's in like mile 20, right?
56:22	Nick Bare	Yeah, ranges are based off the individual, like your conditioning, your experience, and glycogen stores. It's about how fast you burn through your body's energy. So, I went out for the Austin Marathon with a goal of running sub-3 hours. I went out way too fast, and within the first 6 miles, I knew I wasn't going to achieve that. In those first 6 miles, I was done for. The Austin Marathon is not flat; it has hills. It's like a horrible PR course—no one I know has set a personal record at the Austin Marathon. So, for the remainder of that race, I was just holding on. I ended up running 3 hours and 24 minutes, which is 24 minutes over my sub-3 goal. Everyone on the internet who doubted me loved it. I went into another training block immediately after that race was done. I actually did a real prep this time, had a really solid coach, Jeff Cunningham, and I ended up running a marathon a year later in 2 hours, 56 minutes, and 27 seconds. That was the first time I went sub-3. Then, a year later, I did the Buffalo, New York Marathon in 2 hours and 48 minutes. Just recently, on December 3, 2023, I ran a 2:30, which is a 6:05 pace.
57:40	Sam Parr	got it
57:40	Nick Bare	mile pace
57:41	Sam Parr	what weight were you
57:43	Nick Bare	I was a £195
57:45	Sahil Bloom	Oh my God, that's ridiculous! At 195, I mean, it's ridiculous at any body weight, but it's insane at 195. Where?
57:52	Sam Parr	you still squatting and benching while you're I mean were you still strong
57:56	Nick Bare	I took a lot of time off strength training during that prep. For about 13 weeks leading up to that race, I was still lifting here and there, but I wasn't lifting legs heavy. I wasn't even lifting upper body really heavy. I was just getting some movement in, just to maintain and feel good, but the priority was running.
58:19	Sam Parr	Because what a lot of runners don't realize is, like, so 2:39—that's impressive. That's very impressive. But it's more impressive that you're doing it at your body weight. That is, like, out of this world. I had dinner one time recently with this guy named Josh Kerr. You guys know who Josh Kerr is? Unless you're a running nerd, you don't know who he is. But he won the world championships recently in the 1500 meters. He's like a 3:45 miler, so one of the fastest milers ever. Whatever. But he's pretty big for a miler. For a normal human being, you would think he's skinny, but for a miler, he's big. I started talking to him, and I was like, "You're pretty big. How'd you do this?" He goes, "Man, I'm from Scotland, I think. I came to America when I was 17 to go to college, and I was training for the mile. But I wasn't used to having fast food and, like, having restaurants open 24 hours a day. So I got fat my first semester there, and I weighed 200 pounds. I broke the mile when I was 17 or 18 that year when I weighed 200 pounds. I think I own the world record for the fattest sub-four mile." And like, 200 pounds for a guy who's 6 feet tall—that's not huge. But to be able to run that time, or the time even that you're running, or even Sahil, you're pretty big too for running those times with that weight. That's just, like, inconceivable. Not only because it's hard, but what's inconceivable is that you're not getting hurt running 50 to 80 miles a week leading up to it. That's what's, like, in my mind, the most impressive part here.
59:42	Nick Bare	Yeah, I mean when I first started running, I had a lot of injuries just because my body mechanics weren't super efficient. I've had knee injuries, quads, ankles, shins, calves... like everything. But now, as I've run longer with more miles, my body has become pretty efficient at form and function. I rarely get injured anymore unless I do like an ultra marathon.
01:00:15	Sahil Bloom	I had two, you know, from my training. I just had two random life lesson type things from running that I'm curious, Nick, if you've experienced these. One was before my marathon. I was trying to figure out how to mentally take on the goal of running a sub-3 hour marathon. I was thinking about what to do if I'm six miles into the race and I realize I'm not going to hit it. How do I make sure I still finish the race and don't just mentally lose it? This marathoner told me that for every single race or anything you're going after, you want to have basically three goals. He said you have your A goal, which is the main thing you're trying to hit. Then you have a B goal, which is just slightly worse, and finally, you have a C goal, which is just to finish the damn race. You can always lock in on your A goal from the start, but if you start falling off that and realize you're not going to hit it, you need something to fall back on that keeps you motivated when you're in it. So, you have your B goal, and then the C goal is just to get to the finish line. I have taken that and run with it in every area of life now. No matter what it is, if you have a fitness goal, like a daily fitness goal where you want to run every day and work out every day, it's good to have that A goal. But the reality is that sometimes shit hits the fan. Your kid is up all night, or you have a problem at home, or something at work pops up. So, having that idea of what the B goal is—maybe it's a slightly lower version—and then the C goal is just, "I'm just going to go for a walk and get 15 minutes of movement in," has helped me so much in terms of navigating the vagaries of life. Inevitably, you're not going to have your perfect day every single day.
01:01:50	Nick Bare	Yeah, it's like the mindset of "all or nothing." You see so many people at every marathon, every race. It's very applicable to anything else in life. You see these elite runners go out, and as soon as they fall off pace, they drop out. They just fall to the side. I was actually talking to Ken Rideout a few weeks ago when he was on my podcast. Now he lives right down the road from me here in Nashville. He was telling me that when he did the Kona Ironman years ago, during the race, he realized he wasn't going to hit the time he wanted. So, he just dropped out of the race. He and his family had traveled to Hawaii for this race, so there was a lot of time, effort, energy, and money going into it. He said it was like his greatest regret ever. He forced himself to go back the next year for redemption, just to prove to himself that he could do it. I think the feelings, the emotions, and everything that's created when you quit something and drop out because you weren't on pace for that goal... I mean, that's like self-destruction. That hurts so much more than not actually finishing the race.
01:03:04	Sahil Bloom	The other thing that's funny to me about all runners is that I feel like they've gone through a similar experience. You said it yourself, like with your first marathon or when you left the military, you were like, "I'm never gonna run again. I'm done with this." It's like women after they have babies. There's a chemical that gets released that makes them forget how much it hurts going through childbirth. I think the same thing happens with running; it just is a little more delayed. When I finished my marathon, I was like, "Fuck this! I'm never running another marathon. That was the most painful thing I had ever experienced." The last 6 miles? I wouldn't wish that on my worst enemy in the world. Then, like two weeks later, I'm thinking, "Which one should I sign up for next year? I gotta go 2:49. I gotta do this!"
01:03:44	Nick Bare	I mean, it's... I'm the same way with ultras. Like, I finish an ultra and I'm out for 2 weeks. I can't walk, my toenails are falling off, and I talk to my wife. I'm like, "This is stupid. Why did I do this? I'm useless. I can't help out at home." And I find myself signing up for another ultra shortly after.
01:04:00	Sam Parr	Dude, your ultra documentary was so good! I remember I had subscribed for like the premiere, so I was sitting at my TV waiting for it to come out. It was an hour long about Leadville, I think, right?
01:04:12	Nick Bare	yeah
01:04:12	Sam Parr	It was so good! I remember I was one of the first ones to say, "Alright, it's coming up at this time, Sarah. Let's sit down and watch it." What's crazy about you is that there's this whole thing where people who want to talk in clichés say, "Every media or every company should be a media company," yada, yada, yada. The thing is, they mostly suck at it. You're actually one of the few guys that has supplements that meet... I don't know what the grade is, but I know I've talked to you and I've talked to other people about it. Your competitors will be like, "Yeah, VPN, they meet this particular grade. They are of high quality." But you also nailed the supplement thing, and then you are also nailing the media thing. Very few other people are doing that. You are actually really nailing it. It's almost like you could argue that your media is even better than the supplements. Because supplements... I don't know how the industry works, but it seems like, "Yeah, these five are great," but your media is awesome.
01:05:05	Nick Bare	I appreciate that
01:05:06	Sam Parr	You had, like, it looked like you had 3 or 4 guys following you around the whole time. Your wife was there - I feel like I know her because of the videos - and then she was following you on Instagram or... and talking about your splits. These guys have these beautiful cameras. It was just like... it was a great documentary. How many views did that have?
01:05:23	Nick Bare	the leadville doc now has 1 and a half 1000000
01:05:28	Sam Parr	It was so good, man! It was so good. Did you come up with that storyline, or did you just hire a good team?
01:05:36	Nick Bare	that's my creative director jordan in house here
01:05:38	Sam Parr	where's he from
01:05:40	Nick Bare	Jordan is from Ohio geographically, but when I met him, he was employee number 4 at VPN. He was filming for another YouTuber as a freelancer when I met him. I was looking for a videographer at the time because this was 2019, and I was still filming and editing all my own videos.
01:06:02	Sam Parr	that's crazy that's a shit ton of work
01:06:05	Nick Bare	I mean, all I did—literally all I did—was work. 2019 was the first time I was able to bring someone on. I was looking for the right person for over a year. I would fly people down; they would stay with me, I'd meet them, we'd film something, but it just didn't feel right, so I didn't pursue it. Then I met Jordan. It felt right. He moved down as a creative director and led my content for a while. After that, he went and led VPN's content for a while, and now he's back working directly on my content again. He came up with a storyline, the whole production, the scouting, and the editing process. Obviously, we had a lot of guys on the team supporting that editing, filming, and production, but Jordan led that project. We just launched the "Last Man Standing Ultra" that he led and created with Ian Rodriguez here on my team. We posted the CIM race video on Monday. But yeah, Jordan is a super talented creative.
01:07:10	Sam Parr	What's your budget for a team dedicated to content each year? Are you tracking the ROI, or is this just something where you're like, "I'm pretty sure it's working"?
01:07:19	Nick Bare	It's a... I'm pretty sure it's working. I mean, our media team is... I mean, with video, just videographers and photographers, we have 10. But then we have our social team. A lot of my business decisions, as an entrepreneur, one thing I've learned—and I think we were talking about this when you were on my podcast a few months ago—is that I make a lot of my decisions based off of intuition and gut feeling. I never looked at the P&L; I never looked at the balance sheet. If I had this feeling that it was working and I could feel momentum, and I had a pulse on it, I was just like, "Keep spending, keep hiring." Then finally, at one point, I hired operators, a CFO, a CEO, and they're like, "Hey, we gotta put some guardrails around this." But like, all of my decisions in business have been intuition and gut. If it feels right, I'm gonna do it. I have a feeling there's gonna be an ROI. I might not be able to measure it, but I can subjectively tell if it's gonna work or is working.
01:08:34	Sahil Bloom	Is it separate at all? Like, is the Nick Bare Fitness platform and your personal social media separate from VPN as a functional entity? Or are the people, like the videographers, the ten people, are they all under VPN?
01:08:46	Nick Bare	Yeah, the whole process has changed significantly over the last couple of years. So originally, it was all one team, and then at one point, we separated out where I now have the Nick Bare Fitness business and then the Bare Performance Nutrition business. So they were like two separate teams.
01:09:07	Sam Parr	And the Nick Bare Fitness business is your app, right? It's also your channel.
01:09:12	Nick Bare	Yeah, it's like my content, my IP, my channel, my training app, stuff like that. I used to do brand deals, but I don't do any brand deals anymore.
01:09:24	Sam Parr	Dude, Hoka should have been paying you like seven figures a year. I bought Hoka's because of you. I saw, I was like, "Oh, big guy wears Hoka's. Hoka's is the thing."
01:09:32	Nick Bare	The amount of Hoka Rincons I sold when I first started running has to be absolutely ridiculous. So, just talking about the separation, we separated out the Nick Bare Fitness team and the VPN team for a while. Really, it made no sense what we were doing and why we were doing it. I just thought it was the professional move to take in that next step and stage of business. Now, we've brought it all back into one entity. I still have the Nick Bare Fitness business, but everyone that is working on media is on VPN payroll and is a VPN team member. All the content we're creating is in the hope of building the supplement business. Now, the teams are separated, working on different projects. I have my creative director, Jordan, who's leading my content; Ian, who's working on my content; and Everett, who's a podcast producer. Then we have videographers and creatives that are working on just VPN stuff. But there's definitely crossover, and the lines are blurrier than they used to be.
01:10:37	Sam Parr	Do you think that dings your valuation if you ever wanted to sell the company? Because it's so tied onto you.
01:10:44	Nick Bare	I don't know if it dings the valuation, but I definitely think that a process and a sale would come with a whole lot of structure, a lot of IP [intellectual property] negotiations, and possibly issues.
01:11:01	Sahil Bloom	I feel like it's less than you think, actually. I was always impressed... I had actually taken VPN supplements before knowing you and had no idea who you were or that you were involved. They just like popped up as one of the supplements I was taking.
01:11:15	Sam Parr	I actually
01:11:15	Sahil Bloom	know that's
01:11:15	Sam Parr	not the bulk you think do you think sahil that's the bulk of custom
01:11:18	Sahil Bloom	Honestly, I have no idea. I just remember, like, back in my private equity days, we looked at Onnit. You remember that brand? Yeah, I don't know if it's still around. Onnit was selling, and it was like...
01:11:26	Sam Parr	they had a huge exit
01:11:27	Sahil Bloom	Well, it was so tied to Joe Rogan and what was his name? Aubrey Marcus. Yeah, Aubrey Marcus. That was like when we were looking at it, private equity guys, like that's their biggest fear. It's like, "Oh, how involved are these two guys? Is it a key man risk?" All of this stuff. Then ultimately, they ended up getting to an amazing exit with somebody. You know, they put guardrails around it. They get like key man insurance or whatever it is. But I would be interested to find out, actually, like run a survey of your customers. What proportion actually end up coming through you and your media versus now just like the flywheel is spinning, SEO is there, and the business kind of just, you know, is self-propagated.
01:12:05	Sam Parr	Well, that's been the fear with my businesses, which is I don't want to make it me. I want to make it its own thing. But me, or Nick, or Sahil... like that gets initial base, but it's like, at what point do you make the transition? And that's challenging. There's a... I don't know the answer to that question, and I'm afraid of the repercussions of making the wrong choice. You know what I mean?
01:12:29	Nick Bare	Yeah, that’s been a topic of discussion for the last couple of years with us. We’ve been trying to figure out how to navigate that. For a while, I kept leaning into the idea of separating, in the hopes of building a VPN away from myself so that it’s separate and distinct and can stand on its own. However, what I’ve found by doing that is that the separation created a loss of vision and brand. So, I’ve kind of flipped my whole thought process on that and said, “Screw whatever happens in the future.” I’m going to lean fully back in, and I don’t really care how it affects valuation or the end process anymore. I’m just going to build a brand that I’m really proud of, in the way I want to build it. Whatever happens, happens. If someone comes knocking on my door in the next couple of years and says, “Hey, we love what you’re doing, let’s talk,” that’s great. But if you don’t like it, you know, I just want to make sure I’m enjoying the process and not building a business based on KPIs and milestones.
01:13:33	Sam Parr	And I bet you're... I mean, I have no idea. I've never seen you comment on this, but I would have to assume the app that you have... How much do you charge? $50 a month or something?
01:13:43	Nick Bare	it's 19.99 a month
01:13:45	Sam Parr	so I would have have to imagine that's doing well too right
01:13:50	Nick Bare	I mean, I make much more money outside of VPN than I make personally with VPN.
01:13:56	Sam Parr	yeah I mean I I think it's killing it cyto have you ever thought about doing it
01:14:00	Sahil Bloom	Yeah, I mean that type of business model is incredible, right? It's just like the ultimate scalability. As you think about reinvesting cash flows into your brand, building it just makes it so much more dynamic. You can run all of your media stuff at breakeven if you want to. You can just reinvest all the cash that you're generating from YouTube ads, from the app, from any of those things into creating better and better content. This creates a massive flywheel and you can just count on VPN as the long-term upside bet.
01:14:32	Sam Parr	Yeah, but if I had to bet... I bet you, Nick, if I had to bet, Nick has probably been... even though his net worth has skyrocketed, I... if I had to bet, you've lived relatively poor compared to the net worth that you've created. Cash flow poor. And now you probably taste this and you're like, "Okay, finally I can afford to live like I want to live," as opposed to just living on $80,000 a year.
01:14:57	Nick Bare	Yeah, I mean, for the first five years, I didn't take any money out of the business.
01:15:05	Sam Parr	what do you get like just like a like a army or you get like a military stipend or something
01:15:09	Nick Bare	Yes, it worked. It worked well because I started the business in 2012. 2017 is the year I transitioned out of the Army, so I actually had to start paying myself then. My brother, who moved down from Pennsylvania to help us build the business, and I signed our first warehouse lease that year. It was the first year we hit 7 figures in revenue. It was also the most challenging year of my entire life because I didn't know anything about financing, inventory, leveraging debt, taking out business loans, or utilizing lines of credit. Cash flow was an absolute nightmare. The only money I thought I had to spend was the money that was in the bank account. We had no terms with manufacturers. 2017 was arguably the worst and hardest year of my life, but also the best year of my life. If I could go relive any year right now, it would be that year.
01:16:03	Sam Parr	that's insane
01:16:05	Sahil Bloom	That's one thing, by the way. Just the time frame on all of this—I feel like people don't appreciate time as a lever for growth on anything as much as they should. Actually, people in fitness and athletes understand it better because they realize that growing slowly is the game. Just getting better slowly. When I look at your YouTube channel and go to the most popular videos, a bunch of these videos show that you've been at this for years. There are videos that are 6 years old, 4 years old, 3 years old, and even an 8-year-old video, like the "10,000 Calorie Cheat Day Challenge." Some of this stuff you've just been at it for a long time. I know you just said it—you were editing these videos. You were actually on the ground, spending like 100-hour weeks doing this stuff for a long, long time. It wasn't like you all of a sudden popped up and had this unbelievable production quality that you have today. So, I also think appreciating time as a lever for growth on these fronts is incredible.
01:16:59	Nick Bare	That is one thing that's been a powerful skill for me over this last decade: the consistency at which I've just kept doing the thing. Even the one thing Sam and I talked about when he was on my podcast... I know you're going to do a speech, and you're back in the green room before going out to do the speech. You're talking to all these high-net-worth individuals who are super powerful, and they're all sitting there, super insecure, scared, and nervous. It's like, "Yeah, holy shit! These people aren't any more secure, confident, or better than me." I think once you realize that you have all the skills you need to take whatever it is you want to the top, you just have to apply it. I used to think, and I went through this phase where I was like, "Okay, I'll get this business to this level, but at some point, I'm not going to be smart enough. So, I'm going to have to outsource people to come in and take it from where I built it to where it needs or can go." Sometimes you do that, but you don't have to. I've realized that there's no one smarter than me who's going to take this business to the level it needs to go. I just have to be super consistent with this approach for a long time.
01:18:14	Nick Bare	Of time and it's gonna pay off in dividends
01:18:18	Sam Parr	but you did hire a ceo I think what are you a year into that
01:18:21	Nick Bare	a little over a year
01:18:22	Sam Parr	yep how's that
01:18:24	Nick Bare	It's been great. I mean, the main reason I wanted to step out of the CEO role is that I wasn't actively looking to hire a CEO. But Kat came into the business first as kind of just an adviser, and then she joined as the Chief Revenue Officer, leaning into more operations. Then we just had a conversation one day. I was like, "Hey, would you ever want to be CEO?" Because I really just want to focus on creating content and brand building. She's like, "Yeah, if you want me to be CEO, I'll be CEO." So we made the switch because the business got to a size where I wasn't spending my time on the things that I was passionate about anymore. I was spending my time on people management, lawsuits, retail, finances, P&L, and balance sheets. I was like, "This is all super critical, important stuff, but I don't love it." I want to focus on what I love, and that's creating content, building the brand, getting people excited, talking about the products, and working on new product innovation. That's why I wanted to make that change, which has been much harder than I thought it would be. I'm only now, a year into that transition, really finding my lane. But this last year for me has been an interesting one.
01:19:51	Sam Parr	Dude, it's hard. So, I have a CEO too. We'll be at one year in a couple of months, and it's challenging because you want to be a good partner with your CEO. You want them to make mistakes and put their flavor into things because you have to let a CEO do that. But at the same time, you're like, "But I already did all this, and I can tell you what the outcome of this is going to be." It's really... it's like getting married but not living together right away. So, you get married, and then you move in, and you're like, "Oh, you're freaking leaving the cap off the toothpaste!" But you can't just complain about little stuff; you have to let them do what they want to do. You know what I mean? It's kind of weird. It's a weird thing, but you have to learn how to manage each other. It is a challenge, but when it works, it's hard... it's the best.
01:20:44	Nick Bare	at any. Do you feel the need to jump back into the ceo role
01:20:50	Sam Parr	Well, when I get pissed off, I'll be like, "I gotta do this." Then I'll get end-of-week or end-of-month updates, and I'm like, "Oh my God, Jordan is so much better than me at all of these things." I also think, "I would have done this different, this different, this different," and those three things I probably would have been wrong about. So, the name of the game isn't being right 100% of the time; the name of the game is being right for the right things most of the time. I just had to kind of have empathy and put myself in his shoes, and that helped a lot. But no, like, on a bad day when I get pissed off, I'm like, "I should do this," and then 99% of the time I'm like, "You are more talented than I am at so many things. I cannot do this."
01:21:33	Nick Bare	I think sometimes, too, when you're far removed from a position for an extended period of time, you forget all of the bad things you used to deal with. You only remember the good, like "Man, I kind of miss this." And then you get exposed to all the things, the bad things that you don't miss too much. No, you got it. You run with it.
01:21:53	Sahil Bloom	It also kind of, just before you jump forward from that, Sam, it differs greatly between a true business operations endeavor and a creative endeavor. You couldn't step away and truly have a CEO just running your content apparatus because it would lose the soul that is in every single piece of content that exists. You can build your team around it, but you actually being in that creatively, I think, is so key. There was this interview with Jerry Seinfeld, I think it was with the Harvard Business Review. They asked him about the fact that he and Larry David basically wrote every episode of Seinfeld. After nine years, they burned out, and the show just had to end because they burned out on doing it. The Harvard Business Review asked, "Could you have hired McKinsey to come in and help you find a better model and design something?" Jerry Seinfeld responded, "Who's McKinsey?" They said, "It's a consulting firm." Seinfeld then asked, "Are they funny?"
01:22:57	Sahil Bloom	You don't like... I don't need them if they're not funny because the efficient way of doing the creative thing is actually the wrong way. And what he said is the right way is the hard way. The show was successful because they did it the hard way. They micromanaged every single detail of the creative process, and they really had their soul in it. So I think that your creative success and what has allowed all your businesses to thrive are also fundamentally tied to the fact that you have your soul in every single piece of content that you guys are putting together.
01:23:25	Nick Bare	Yeah, I agree with that. I think sometimes entrepreneurship, building a business, and founding a company from the outside looking in can seem easy. It's romanticized, and everyone thinks, "Oh, I could start a business. I could do it." Then you finally do it, and you have this passion around everything you're building. But then it gets hard, and it gets challenging. As it grows, your passions are sidelined for the priorities of other parts of the business. It's just about maintaining that consistent work ethic, even when you're working on things that you truly weren't passionate about in the beginning. But you know it drives business and leads you to an ultimate end goal.
01:24:11	Sam Parr	Well guys, I appreciate you coming on. It was a little impromptu, but this is fun. I just like hanging out with you guys and learning. Nick, Sahil, I'm close to Sahil so I don't have to say this to him, but Nick, I've looked up to you for a while now and I appreciate you doing this. Sahil, I appreciate you doing this too. This is awesome.
01:24:30	Nick Bare	no thanks guys appreciate the opportunity
01:24:32	Sam Parr	alright that's the pod

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Nick Bare Tells ALL: Natural Vs Steroids, $60M Supplement Empire & Sub-3 Marathons

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