The 5 Most Interesting Billionaires Alive...

Shaan Puri

Okay, these are the **five most interesting businessmen alive**. These are going to be **eccentric billionaires**—people who not only have a crazy business life but have also done a variety of wild things. These are people that they should be making movies about. So, we have a list. Can I start it off with **number five**? We're going to go from **five to one**, with one being who we crown as the **most interesting man alive**. The criteria for this, by the way, is that they have to be interesting. So, not just rich, not just successful, but **fascinating**. This can be good and bad. They have to be men; we have a separate list coming for women. And they have to be alive—so nobody who is, you know, some dead historical figure. Fair enough?

Sam Parr

Yeah, you're going to kick it off.

Shaan Puri

Yeah, I'll kick it off. Okay, so number 5 is a guy who won the game twice. On his way out the second time, he's just flipping the bird to everybody. This is a guy named Pavel Durov. I call this guy "James Bond with Wi-Fi." If you see this guy's Instagram, you'll know why I said it. He looks like James Bond. He travels around the world; he's an international man of mystery. He built his claim to fame using his laptop and Wi-Fi. So, this guy's basically the Russian Mark Zuckerberg. It's even more impressive than Zuck. When he was young, he built the Facebook of Russia, and it was called VK. What's cool about this is two things. Number one, he actually beat Facebook. There were many countries in the world where someone built the Facebook of Brazil, the Facebook of Africa, the Facebook of Europe. There have been tons of these, and in every single one of them, the end game was, "No, no, no, Facebook is the Facebook of Brazil. Facebook is the Facebook of India." Facebook dominated everywhere. The one place they couldn't dominate was Russia. In an interview, Zuck was talking to Sam Altman, and he even said, "God, the only ones we could never beat were the Russians." He was like, "It was insane. We would make a change, and literally, like 12 minutes later, they would have that update on their side. If we moved a pixel, they moved that pixel." He's like, "These guys were just the most prolific copiers we've ever seen, and we just could not figure out how we were ever gonna overtake them if they're the world's smartest mathematicians and programmers who are dedicated 24/7 to beating us or cloning us and doing exactly what we do. If they can't come up with a better idea..." So, he creates VK; it becomes the Facebook of Russia. He won, but he had to sell it because one day the Russian government approaches him and says, "Pavel, we need some information." He's like, "Cool, what do you need to know?" They're like, "We need some information about all your users and what they're saying." He's like, "What? Why?" Then they're like, "Well, there have been some users who were saying some anti-government things. As you know, that's not how we do things around here, so give us some names, and we'll make sure that they get quiet."

Sam Parr

And he's like, "While you're at it, drop your pants and bend over and cough."

Shaan Puri

So, he doesn't want to do it. What Pavel does—by the way, this is not just a business move; this is not a lawyer sending you a cease and desist when the Russian government comes knocking. There are serious consequences for what you decide to do after that. If you comply, great. If you don't comply, there are not only consequences for those people they were after, but there are also consequences for you. What he does is he not only doesn't comply, he flips the bird. He goes and posts on VK the government request—the memo, the secret kind of letter that they sent him telling him what they needed. He says, "They're asking for your data. I'll never do it," and here's my official response. He posts a picture of a dog wearing a hoodie, this famous picture of a dog in a hoodie. He says, "Here's what I have to say about this," and he just posts a dog with a hoodie. Immediately, he's now in trouble. They raid his apartment, he ends up losing his company, and he has to flee the country. He’s never allowed back in Russia. It costs him basically everything; his entire life gets completely uprooted. It's not like he was just a guy—he had something to lose here. At the end of all this, he says, "And I would do it all again without hesitation." I love that. I love this guy. So, he gets kicked out of Russia, loses his company, but he does get $300 million because he sells it on the way out to some other guy who is going to comply. I’m not sure what happened to his principles after that, but whatever. He gets $300 million, and he hasn't fully left Russia yet, but he's figuring out his way out. He's like, "Dude, I can't even message my brother to tell him what we're going to do because they'll just see these messages. They want to see our messages; they're going to see all these messages." So, his brother, who has a double PhD in math, says, "You know what? Let's make an encrypted messaging protocol so that we can communicate. This is bullshit that they can just read all our goddamn messages." This becomes the precursor to Telegram, which is now one of the biggest messaging apps in the world. So, this guy not only invented Facebook, but then he got kicked out. It's like if the Winklevosses had beaten up Mark in the locker room, taken Facebook from him, kicked him off Harvard campus, and then he goes and creates WhatsApp. That's basically what he did.

Sam Parr

How big is Telegram? I know it's huge, but I don't use it. Do you use it?

Shaan Puri

I use it. I love it. It's probably my favorite messaging app of all messaging apps. It's an incredible product. It's got 1 billion users, dude.

Sam Parr

What's so good about it, other than the encryption thing, which is huge?

Shaan Puri

I mean, the encryption thing is huge. It's just really well made. The app is really fast, works really well, and has a ton of features. You know, you can do a broadcast channel where it's like Twitter, and you're broadcasting to a bunch of followers. You can just message each other, create huge groups, have admins, and send stickers and memes. You can send a ton of different types of messages. It's a really well made app.

Sam Parr

And has 1,000,000,000 people using it.

Shaan Puri

About a billion users now. Last I think I heard was like 800 million, but recently he said something like, "We have about a billion users." He never runs ads and has refused to sell any equity in the company. He took about $1 billion of debt, but he never sells any equity. It's just him and his brother who own the whole thing. He's got 30 full-time employees running a service that a billion people use all around the world. Every government attacks them and tries to break their encryption or ban them because no government wants this. No government wants the citizens to be able to speak freely. He is the sole director, equity holder, and the sole product manager. He works directly with every engineer and designer himself. He has no HR; he only recruits people through something called Contest.com, which is a contest platform. He puts up engineering challenges, and the people who are the best at cracking his engineering challenges get hired. They receive an offer to come work at Telegram.

Sam Parr

Is it a Russian company?

Shaan Puri

No, he's like, "It's crazy! Everyone calls us a Russian company. We have no office in Russia, we have no employees in Russia, we have no servers in Russia." But the media just will be like, "Oh, Russian founder, blah blah blah." He's like, "Dude, I've basically, for a while, just moved around the world every three months, living in different Airbnbs." And then finally, he settled in Dubai. This guy's worth about **$15 billion**, so he's the richest expat in Dubai. He's one of the top 150 richest men in the world. And then you go look at his Instagram. You're going to love this! The guy's ripped. He's absolutely ripped. In every photo, there's never another human being in any photo with him. Every photo is him alone, with his shirt off, doing something manly as hell. It's hilarious! All the photos look AI-generated. It's like if I said, "Hey, generate a rich billionaire living in Dubai who is on the Brian Johnson protocol and wants to become Instagram famous." This is what DALL-E would give me.

Sam Parr

He's literally on a pirate ship in some of these photos.

Shaan Puri

Yeah, I have a bunch. Another quote I love from him is, "You know, you're a billionaire, billionaire, billionaire." He's like, "Dude, this billionaire thing is a little overplayed." He's like, "Yes, it's true I've had a few $100,000,000 in both dollars and Bitcoin in a bank account for 10 years, and I've never touched it." He goes, "Yeah, that's true, but I don't own any jets or yachts or mega mansions. I don't do any of that shit. I would rather make decisions that would influence how a billion people are going to communicate rather than sitting there choosing the color of the seats in my house that only me and my relatives are ever going to see."

Sam Parr

That's amazing. I read another interview with him where he goes: > I went to San Francisco to see if I wanted to open an office there, and I met with Jack Dorsey. It was great, and I went to the Twitter office. The Twitter office is in the epicenter of kind of bad stuff or crime happening in San Francisco. I used to live down the block from it. He said: > After the meeting, I was walking around and three guys tried to mug me. The interviewer was like, "Well, how'd it go?" He goes, "Blood was spilled." But he doesn't say whose blood... he just said there was blood.

Shaan Puri

Well, he was like, "Yeah, 3 guys tried to steal my phone. I fought off the robbers." And then he posted it on Twitter. He's like, "My goal was... I was trying to tweet out 'I just hung out with Jack Dorsey'" (because Jack Dorsey made Twitter). He's like, "That's what I was trying to do on my phone when they did this." So he posts a picture of his bloody knuckles reaching for a book, which is just a hilarious thing. He goes, and this is the tweet he goes: > Just got into a fight with guys who tried to grab my phone near Mission & 9th. Scary neighborhood? Not for a Russian.

Sam Parr

Yeah, this guy's pretty badass.

Shaan Puri

The idea that San Francisco is like the nice, quaint neighborhood in Russia. It's the nice, clean family area of Russia.

Sam Parr

Yeah, I read that, and it was so funny. He's clearly manicuring his social presence, but I think I believe it.

Shaan Puri

Yeah, the guy's amazing. He just flexes on everybody. His Instagram is just a pure flex.

Sam Parr

Yeah, I mean, he's awesome. This guy's a good one.

Shaan Puri

Hey, real quick! You know, one of the cool parts about what we're doing is that people have reached out and told me that they've built actual $1,000,000 businesses. They made their first million off an idea they heard on the show. That is crazy! That's wild! That's why we want to do the show, and we want to see more of that. One of the questions we get asked over and over again is, "Is there some kind of idea database or spreadsheet where we list out all the different business ideas that we've talked about?" Well, the answer is finally yes! The fine folks at HubSpot have dug through the archive and pulled out 50+ business ideas and put them into a business idea database. It's totally free! You can click the link in the description below to get the database for you. Alright, now back to the show.

Sam Parr

How does Telegram make money, or do they?

Shaan Puri

They basically don't make money. I've read somewhere—I don't know if this is 100% true, but I'm trying to find it—two things: 1. They take donations. I read something that they've had over **$1,000,000,000** in donations from users, and that's been part of what keeps it going. It's about 30 people, and then there's the server cost. So, there's burn, but it's not like he's running a 3,000-person or a 30,000-person company. In addition to that, he raised a **$1,000,000,000** debt bond, which is basically like a pre-IPO coupon. He was basically saying, "We're going to make money someday, and we need money now to get there." He had offers to sell 10% at a **$30,000,000,000** valuation.

Sam Parr

My God.

Shaan Puri

He turned it down. So, he turned down $3,000,000,000. Then they came back and said, "We'll buy 10% out of a $40,000,000,000 valuation," so $4,000,000,000. He turned it down and said, "I don't want to sell any equity. I'm scared of what an investor will do for this." He did a crypto token back when crypto was really hot and raised over $1,000,000,000 for their crypto coin. But then the SEC came after him and was like, "This was basically like you were selling equity. You called it a token and as a utility, but like this is equity." So, he had to return a bunch of money, and that token project never got off the ground because he had raised, and I think the minimum at the time, because I was looking into investing in it, was you had to buy in chunks of a minimum of $20,000,000.

Sam Parr

Oh my god.

Shaan Puri

So basically, people were forming syndicates. It was like, "Oh, you want to come in for $500,000? Alright, cool. We're trying to get to $20,000,000 so we could buy some of the Telegram token." Because you had an app that actually had a ton of usage. The most brilliant, you know, like engineering team probably that exists on Earth, or one of the top 20 engineering teams on Earth. And now they were going to do a token to try to make money and, you know, figure out like basically you'd be able to use the token to do things inside the app. So anyway, that's kind of some of the things they've tried. But, you know, he has, quote unquote, some plan of how they're going to make money that doesn't involve you selling user data.

Sam Parr

This guy's really cool. Alright, that's a good one.

Shaan Puri

Yeah, who's number 4? Who do you have?

Sam Parr

Alright, so my goal with this was to pick people who you have no idea who they are, and hopefully most of our audience has no idea who they are either. We did not talk before this, so it's just a coincidence that my guy is also Russian. I call him the "Russian Richard Branson." His name is Oleg Tinkoff. He grew up in a mining family, so very humble beginnings. But he goes to the city because he wants to experience freedom. He gets into cycling for some reason. He goes abroad for a bike race and sees someone wearing blue jeans. This is in the eighties in the Soviet Union, which is about to crumble and become Russia. He starts bringing home these blue jeans and selling them. He's like, "Alright, it looks like people in Russia really want this Western fashion." So he opens up a chain of stores where he starts selling blue jeans, but then everything else: perfume, VCRs, electronics. This is right in '89, '90, when the Soviet Union is crashing, and these people actually want to be able to buy stuff from Western countries. He kills it! In his early twenties, he sells that business and makes something like $7,000,000. Then he does something that you'd expect him to do: he starts a ravioli business.

Shaan Puri

Is this guy just watching commercials in the States? He's like, "Levi's got it. Okay, next one, ravioli. Cool, we'll do that too."

Sam Parr

Well, what he does is he goes to America every once in a while. He says he goes every five years to learn what's popular in America, like different advertising, and he basically brings that to Russia. Have you ever heard of the phrase "babushka"? I can't even say it right. It means "Russian grandmother." It's like when you think of "Fiddler on the Roof"—a babushka. It's like a Russian grandmother with a scarf over her head. So, typically, raviolis have a different word for them in Russia, but the raviolis were made by that type of person, and it was like a comfort food. So he gets the idea where he's like, "We're gonna do something sexy. We're gonna make this really stand out." He buys this huge ad, and it's just a woman's bare ass. It says something like, "Raviolis not made by your grandmother." It's like a woman's bare ass with flour on it, as if this woman's ass is pounding out the flour. I don't know, it's just kind of weird when you think about it. I don't want ravioli like that.

Shaan Puri

But I don't understand... but I'm hungry.

Sam Parr

But it takes off. It works. This business works. He eventually sells it for **$21,000,000**. So his next thing is that he's in California, and he actually meets with Dan Gordon from Gordon Biersch. That's interesting to you and me because Gordon Biersch was a microbrewery outside of San Francisco. One of the co-founders, or at the time CEO, was actually Lorenzo Fertitta from UFC. He starts seeing this trend in the nineties where these microbreweries are quite popular. So he opens up a microbrewery in Russia and calls it Tinkoff Breweries. It's kind of like Sam Adams beer, where at the time, beer in Russia was not that good tasting. He goes, "We're actually going to charge 4 or 5 times the price of normal beer, and we're going to make this thing very Americanized." He has this famous phrase where he says, "Beer and freedom go great together." He's all into freedom, which is not in line with what Russia wants him to do. So he starts this brewery, and it takes off. They started in **1997**, but by **2003**, it's doing **$35,000,000** in sales. Two years later, in **2005**, it's doing **$200,000,000** in sales, and that year he sells it for **$200,000,000**, which is a huge sum. He owns most of the company, so he just sells his company. He's immediately on Necker Island with Richard Branson. While talking to Richard, he says, "Richard, I was in America recently. I moved there for just a few months, and I was able to get a credit card. It was so amazing how easy it was to get a credit card. We need this in Russia." Richard responds, "You should start it." So that's exactly what he does. About six months after selling his beer company, he starts this credit card company called Tinkoff Bank (I guess is how it translates, or Bank of Tinkoff). He names everything after himself because he's great at marketing, and his name is popular. He starts this bank with **$70,000,000** of his own money, and he actually buys a bank. The reason why this guy is interesting, or this bank is interesting, is that we know what Mercury is; we know what a bunch of these neo-banks are. He beat all of them. He started this in **2005**, and it gets huge.

Sam Parr

Where Goldman invests into it, he invests $70,000,000 of his own money. A bunch of people invest in it, and it becomes massive. The business takes off. Up until recently, in 2021, it was the second largest issuer of credit cards in Russia and the largest digital bank in the world. The idea being, "We don't need branches; we don't need any of that. It's just all going to be online, and we'll send you your card." So, it goes public, and his stake in it is worth $10,000,000,000. Here's where the story gets kind of crazy. Just like Pavel, Russia does not like Oleg. He talks a ton of trash. Basically, at one point, when they invade Ukraine, he's very anti-war. He says, "Putin, you're full of shit. All these oligarchs in Russia, you're all full of shit." He tweets this out. He goes, "The generals wake up with a hangover and realize they have a shitty army. How can the army be any good when the rest of our country is also shit?" He says these things, and eventually, they delist Tinkoff Bank, so it's no longer public, and he loses most of his money. So, at this...

Sam Parr

He's worth, I think, he was able to force-sell some of his shares, and he walked away with about **$200,000,000**. Now, he has leukemia and he's dying; he's going to die soon. Yet, he’s still talking mad shit. He says, "They wanted to punish me for this," and to that, I say, "Fuck off! I want to die with good karma and for people to remember me for being strong and fair." So, he's paid the price for being outspoken, and he's still being outspoken. He’s been completely screwed, but he's doing a good job of kind of still sticking it to the man. The other thing that he's always done really well is challenge the status quo. The reason I found this guy is that he owned a very successful cycling team. Cycling is not a very popular sport; I'm one of the few guys that watches it. But he did a great job of getting into the cycling game, and he criticized the Tour de France for tons of stuff. They eventually changed tons of rules because of him. Finally, he's a shithead in the best possible way. There’s this famous story where, for his microbreweries, he wanted to name the street that the brewery was on "Tinkoff." He wanted it to have the same name as his restaurant. So, what he did was he created a version of an encyclopedia and made a fake entry that said years ago, in the 1700s, there was a brewery on the street named Tinkoff. He argued that they needed to do it justice by naming the street after it because this was a historical thing. Years later, he admits he made one page in an encyclopedia and just put it in there, and they totally went for it. He’s done tons of things like this, and he’s going to die soon. He says that he basically has said he’s going to die soon, and he’s donated what’s left of his big fortune—now a small fortune—to leukemia research. He’s young, and if you look him up, he’s famous for dyeing his hair. He kind of looks like Richard Branson, actually. He’s very Richard Branson-esque; he dyes his hair purple because that’s the color for his cycling team. He’s pretty eccentric—a very unique guy. He also wrote a book, but the book's hard to read because it was translated. He’s a columnist, and he writes a lot, so you can read a lot of his work. Speaking of which, this is my cue for you...

Shaan Puri

You know, books are cool, but books are a little heavy for me. If any of these people wanted to put their thoughts out there, they would have great newsletters. And if they wanted a great newsletter, they would use a great newsletter platform like Beehive. And that is our thrill of the show this week: *The most interesting men in the world*, if they were ever gonna write a newsletter, they would write it on Beehive. Back to the show.

Sam Parr

Anyway, so what do you think of Oleg? He's an interesting guy. You've never heard of him, I think.

Shaan Puri

Fascinating! I've never heard of him. Well done! You got me with that one. I like that. Yeah, this is super cool. I also like just the idea, the move of "I'm just gonna export Western culture." I feel like this is a common blueprint for coming up with really, really big businesses. You go to Japan, observe Japanese culture, find the most interesting bits of it, and then export that culture to a different country that doesn't quite yet have it. Most humans are pretty similar, and you can sort of create the demand, especially when some cultures tend to be net exporters. I think the U.S. is a net exporter in movies and entertainment and has certain strong values like freedom and whatever else. So, you can use those in bringing that to a place that's sort of deficient in those areas. I think that's just a cool model: exporting culture from one place to another.

Sam Parr

And that's what he did. He went and studied business for some classes at Berkeley, and he would just see what's going on in San Francisco and the Bay Area. What's interesting? What's neat? He was inspired by that, and he said, "Every 5 years, I go to America to learn these things." I don't want to bring them back, but [it's a] huge coincidence that we both chose Russian guys... Russian expats, sort of. I guess that kinda tells our stance on sticking it to the man, sticking it to Putin.

Shaan Puri

Alright, my next... I think I'm gonna do a back-to-back here because I have one extra one that you do. So, number 3 for me, I call him "the walking middle finger." Number 3 is Sean Parker, and Sean Parker is a fascinating guy. A lot of people know him because in the movie *The Social Network*, Justin Timberlake is supposed to be Sean Parker. He's this super charismatic, kind of know-it-all guy that tells them, "Hey, drop the 'the' in 'The Facebook.' Just make it 'Facebook.' It's cleaner," right? Do you...?

Sam Parr

I think that's real.

Shaan Puri

Yeah, so that is real, but a lot of that role is not how Sean Parker actually is. He’s like, “I’m not like Justin Timberlake.” He’s like, “I’m not cool and smooth. I’m weird and insecure. I’m a lot more eccentric.” They made him seem cool and normal, but he’s not. He’s like, “I might be cool, but I’ve done it in a normal way.” I want to tell you a little bit about this guy. One of the commonalities I found when I was searching for people like this—and you’ll see the next guy I have has the same story—is that when he was in his teens, he was a hacker. He hacked into something and got arrested. So, I don’t know if you know this, but basically when he was a kid, at 16 years old, he got tracked down by the FBI because he hacked into a Fortune 500 company’s network. They were like, “Hey,” and he eventually got offered a job with the CIA. He turned it down, saying, “No, no, no. I’m on the rebel side. You guys are the authority; I’m the rebel.” So, he created, of course, Napster. Napster is just one of the coolest, biggest middle-finger companies that I think has ever existed. Obviously, there’s probably some generation of people today who don’t even know what Napster is, but Napster was the first place—before Spotify—where you could just go and get access to all of the world’s music, and then movies and other things too. But really, music was the main thing. It was illegal; you could upload the songs, and other people could download those songs. It was music file sharing, and it got mega, mega popular before it got sued out of existence.

Sam Parr

To let the young people know, this was game-changing. I think you and I must have been in grade school, like 12 and 11 and 14, when this came out. This was such a big deal. It got to the point where artists would even release fake music that was auto-tuned. Remember that? When they were scrambled after 10 seconds... They wanted the fake song to go viral.

Shaan Puri

Yep, exactly. Or like comedians. I remember, I forgot who it was, it was like Dane Cook.

Sam Parr

Yeah, Dane Cook.

Shaan Puri

Basically, it would be like a Chris Rock comedy special featuring Dane Cook. People would just read the Chris Rock comedy special, and the first three minutes were Chris Rock doing comedy. Then it was like, "And now, Dane Cook!" Dane Cook made it popular. But basically, it's a growth hack—a genius growth hack—which is to say, "Oh, how do I hijack the SEO, the search intent of Chris Rock, in order to distribute my own comedy virus to everybody else?" So, Napster was super cool, but he gets sued out of existence. The thing I like about Sean Parker is that there's this phrase that Kevin Van Trump said once. We're going to have him on the pod. He's the guy who... what's the newsletter called? The farming newsletter? I forgot what it's called, but he basically writes the biggest newsletter for farmers in the country. He has FarmCon and a bunch of different things. He said something to us once: "You know, the train always comes back a second time." We were like, "What do you mean?" He said, "For all of the best possible deals, investments, trends, and opportunities, you overlook it the first time. It's very common. You think you totally missed it. I missed the boat." But he said, "I just see it over and over again. The train comes back around. Maybe you didn't invest in Facebook, but then the stock tanks for a couple of months. That's your time to get back on." He's like, "It's not always going to be the same price as it was the first time, but for the truly great things, the train has such a long runway. There's so much upside that even if you just get on the second time, you still get filthy rich." He said the same thing happened with Bitcoin. The people who just kicked themselves for not buying Bitcoin the first time they heard it at $150, instead of just buying it at $500, kept telling the story about how they missed it at $150. Then they missed it at $600, $700, $800, $1,000, and now it's at $60,000. They're still missing it. But the smart people are like, "Well, the train came back around. Let me hop on. I now recognize the value in this thing." I feel like Sean Parker did that with his career.

Shaan Puri

Of time, Sean Parker was seen as this kind of bad boy, but like, kind of untouchable. You couldn't invest in Sean Parker; he's too rebellious. He's getting sued out of existence. The big companies hate him, and the government's after him. He was like an untouchable. Then later, it was like, "Oh, Sean Parker, this guy was the one who led the round into Facebook, and he was an early huge investor in Spotify." He was this and that, and he became the guy who could do no wrong. But those weren't his companies. He recognized that those companies were winners and actually made his fortune not on the thing he did, Napster, but in recognizing the brilliance of the next Sean Parker. That was, you know, Daniel Ek for Spotify or it was...

Sam Parr

When he was at Facebook, he did this when he was like... he was the elder at 25.

Shaan Puri

Yeah, yeah. Every hacker looked up to him because he's an icon. He used the reputation, but not necessarily the money, to make all his money. Usually, you use your money to make money; he uses reputation to make money. So, couple of things that this guy did that were pretty fascinating. First, I'm gonna give you some lifestyle things, and then I'm gonna give you the career story. Crazy lifestyle things... So I met somebody who went to his wedding. Have you ever heard about his wedding?

Sam Parr

Yeah, man, he got a ton of shit for it in like the heyday of Silicon Valley.

Shaan Puri

So, this guy basically spent somewhere between **$510,000,000** on his wedding. The interesting thing here is that weird people are not just crazy in their business and super chill in their normal life. Most of them, if you're wired a certain way, you just apply that to everything that comes your way. For example, when it came time to get married, he was like, "Alright, the budget? No budget! Let's just do the sickest thing we can imagine." So, they decided to go to a forest in Big Sur. It wasn't just going to be a wedding; it was going to be like an immersive theater experience. I gotta help people who were there. They said it was crazy! You walk in and you could see the stars above you, but it was daytime. I was like, "How the hell are there stars?" There were rabbits running around—wild rabbits that were just there because we were in the forest. But it was all planned. They had the costume designer from *Lord of the Rings* make everybody's outfits. You know, he ended up paying like **$2,000,000** to **$3,000,000** in fines because you're just not allowed to use the most beautiful public forest for your own wedding. But he was like...

Sam Parr

**Forget it.**

Shaan Puri

I'm doing it to propose.

Sam Parr

Sean, are you sure?

Shaan Puri

They're like, "Is there a permit?" and he's like, "Put on your costume and get in here to propose!" He baked his wedding ring into an onion, gave it to his wife... Say what? I don't even know what this is.

Sam Parr

Dude, it's like being mad at a UFC fighter for getting drunk in a fight in the streets. Like, yeah, he's an animal. What do you expect?

Shaan Puri

Right. The guy who gets caged up in his underwear and fights another man to the death... he wasn't super chill outside their octagon. No, it's weird. He bought this $55,000,000 house in LA from Ellen DeGeneres and then tricked it out. His houses are crazy; it's worth a 30-minute dive just to go look at them. But even in his other stuff, like, you know, rich people do philanthropy, but how you do it is also interesting. For him, he's like, "I want to bet on..." he's like, "I'm going to take a venture capital approach to philanthropy." So he's like, "I'm not just going to donate to the Red Cross or whatever. I'm going to find the people that are trying to cure cancer in the most interesting ways." Then nobody will fund them because it's too crazy, it's too unproven. They have to convince the whole world that their crazy approach is going to work. He's like, "But that's what it's like in the startup world." That's exactly what happens. Some crazy kid has a crazy approach that, you know, most likely will not work, but if it does, it's going to change the game. And that's what VCs do; they bet on that. He's like, "I'm going to do that for curing cancer." So he's poured in tons and tons of money into unorthodox cancer treatments. How wealthy is he? He's very wealthy. When he identified Facebook as, like, a thing, he was like, "You know what? I want to invest in this, be a part of this." Mark really liked him. He's the one who connected Mark to Peter Thiel to get the first $500,000 investment. He's the one who convinced them, I think, to move to Palo Alto and leave Boston, which then let them recruit the best talent, which let them succeed when other social networks like Friendster and MySpace were failing. So Sean ended up owning 4% of Facebook, which just became worth, like, I don't know, $4-5 billion just on his Facebook stock. Then there's an interesting story of how he invested in Spotify. Have you ever read this email that Sean Parker sent to the Spotify founder?

Sam Parr

Wasn't it something like, "This is Napster but done legally"?

Shaan Puri

Exactly. So, he just cold emails them. In 2009, Spotify launched in like the 2006-2007 range in Europe. Daniel, I think, lived in Sweden. They only launched in Europe because the rules allowed them to do it there. He knew he had to build up enough critical mass before entering the United States market. It's one of the weird reasons that Spotify worked while all the other music sharing services never did. They all tried to start in the United States, and the music labels were so ready to sue everyone from Napster that you couldn't have done that. They would come after you when you were just a baby, an infant. So, he writes them this email with the subject line "Thoughts." He says, "Daniel and Shaq, I've been playing around with Spotify. You've built an amazing experience. As you saw, Zuck really likes it too. I've been trying to get him to understand your model, and I think he just needed to try it to see it for himself." Then he talks a little bit about Facebook. He says, "We should partner because we can integrate Spotify's music stuff with Facebook's social graph." He compliments them, saying, "Your design is clean, elegant, tight, and fast. It's clearly lacking some important features, like the social stuff, but I think you've done a great job sequencing. You've nailed the core experience." He continues, "Ever since Napster, I've dreamt of building a product similar to Spotify. I might have tried had I not been, quote, 'sidetracked with Facebook, Founders Fund, and all the dope stuff that I've been doing.' To be fair, I was also pretty scarred from the record labels. So, I've adopted a 'watch and wait' approach to see when the labels would come to their senses and realize that they need something to distribute music. Until a product comes in that would fix all the things we got wrong with Napster, you've done that." Then he just goes on and articulates from a product perspective.

Shaan Puri

Of view, what they have done right and what they need to change. And he's like, "I can help you do this." He ends up leading a $15,000,000 investment into Spotify, which is, you know, an amazing investment. I want to read you one other Sean Parker story. The guy is pretty magnetic, and actually, this story comes from you. A long time ago, you posted on The Hustle a blog post about this famous story of the painter who took stock in Facebook. I guess he was supposed to get paid $60, and instead of taking the $60 for the painting he did on Facebook's office wall, he took stock. The stock ended up becoming worth $200,000,000.

Sam Parr

I almost chose him for this segment because he, David Cho, I think he's a crazy man.

Shaan Puri

He's a crazy man, and he did this interview on Howard Stern. What's cool about it is that I knew the story; I think I already kind of know the story of the painter. What I didn't know is why he took the stock. The answer to why he took the stock is that motherfucker Sean Parker. He's like, "Dude." So Howard Stern's like, "Why did you pick the stock? Were they offering not a lot of money?" And he's like, "No, I told them the price is $60,000." They said yes. He's like, "That's a lot of money." He's like, "Yeah, I just decided that's what it was gonna be worth." I think he was coming out of jail or something at the time, and Sean Parker loved this artist. He was like, "No, no, no, this artist has to be the guy." He had tried to get him to do something for Plaxo, his other company, but they didn't have any money. Finally, he hit him up and said, "Yo, we finally have money. I'm at this new thing called The Facebook. I think we have enough money. Come on, I want you. Only you can do this painting." So he comes over, and he's like, "Cool, it'll be $60." You don't want to paint this whole building; it'll be $60.

Sam Parr

By the way, if you... I've been to the Facebook office and they've redone it. But like parts of the ceiling, they used the same drywall, so you could actually still see the painting.

Shaan Puri

Right, and so Howard shows what happened. They didn't have the cash. He's like, "No, no, they had the cash." He's like, "So why did you take the stock? Did you believe in this? Are you like an investor? Did you believe in this?" He's like, "Dude, I never invested in anything in my life." He says, "I asked Sean, I was like, 'What's this company?'" He starts describing, you know, what Facebook is: "A social network for college kids." And I was like, "Dude, that's lame as shit." He's like, "I wasn't on Friendster. I wasn't on MySpace. I hate that shit." He goes, "And this is for college students? Oh, even worse! I hate education. I hate college. I never went. I don't even like college students." And he's like, "So you hate social networking? You hate college?" He's like, "Yeah, I dropped out of school. I hate everything about school." And he's like, "And it's only starting on Harvard and Stanford campuses?" Oh man, like, "I hate Harvard. I hate Stanford. I'm like anti-anti all those things that they stand for." He's like, "So why did you do it?" He's like, "Because every time I'd hang out with Sean Parker, he would just tell me, 'Yo, I'm gonna make some shit happen.'" He's like, "Before he went and met with Peter Thiel, he says, 'Oh, I gotta go. I gotta raise money for Facebook.' And he goes, 'I'm gonna bend these fuckers' minds.'" He's like, "And he came back and he's like, 'Yeah, the rich... those fuckers ended up being like the richest men in America. You know, like Reid Hoffman and Peter Thiel.'" And he's like, "Dude, this little nerd, this scrawny nerd, he's got a lot of swag and confidence." And he's like, "He came back, he had raised the money from them." And he's like, "Okay, interesting." And he's like, "So you want those cash? He wants stock? You're in this?" He's like, "Yeah." He's like, "Alright." He's like, "I sized him up and I'm like, 'This guy's going somewhere.'" He's like, "So that's why I took the stock."

Sam Parr

That's awesome! That is so awesome. It ended up being worth **$100 million**. I don't know what he sold and when he sold it, but that's insane!

Shaan Puri

And that's what you know. These people have a sort of magnetic trait to them that I think is pretty common. That's a good example of it.

Sam Parr

Were you going to talk about his career, or is that the career part?

Shaan Puri

Let's go to the career part, right?

Sam Parr

Well, you know that he's done a few other things.

Shaan Puri

That he had a bunch of things that failed. So, he had Plaxo, he had Airtime, he had, you know, a bunch of things with that. Then he was a managing partner of Founders Fund. That's all I know. What else is there?

Sam Parr

Have you heard of **opportunity zones** for real estate?

Shaan Puri

mhmm

Sam Parr

You know, I believe he invented that. So basically, I read this a long time ago. I'm going off the cuff, but basically, opportunity zones, if I remember correctly, are zones designated by the government that show these places are impoverished or they're like warehouse spaces. We want to incentivize investors to open up, I believe, residential buildings there. I think it was his idea, and he lobbied the government and turned it into a reality.

Shaan Puri

Opportunities are the brainchild of Sean Parker. In the early 2000s, he was Facebook's first president, and he wanted to minimize his capital gains on his tech stock fortune. So, he lobbied the government to create this idea of opportunity zones, so that investors would be incentivized to invest in areas that were not receiving enough investment. He did it! That's pretty fascinating.

Sam Parr

Yeah, he convinced the Obama administration, I think it was, to make this a reality. And now it's a thing where billions and billions of dollars go to this. It was his idea, and he didn't just come up with the idea - he lobbied the government. He changed the law, which is really fascinating that he did that. So he's done a bunch of interesting stuff. In fact, I think he also played a hand in Obama getting elected a little bit or something like that. I mean, he's a political guy.

Shaan Puri

So.

Sam Parr

He's done a bunch of interesting stuff.

Shaan Puri

Alright, let me do number 2, then you do number 1. So, number 2 is Tom Anderson, aka Tom from MySpace. I call him "the guy who won the game and simply stopped playing," which is really critical. Almost all these guys, like you talked about Oleg, they did this and then they went bigger and bigger. I think that's a common thing, but Tom had one thing those guys will never have: he had enough, and he was able to walk away. Tom's story is pretty wild. I didn't know the backstory. At age 14, he hacked Chase Bank and got root access into their system. He had access to all the names, bank accounts, and the amounts in them. He could have wired as much money as he wanted, but he did not. He knew their mortgages; he knew everything. He was basically the leader of a hacking crew, and his nickname was "Lord Flathead." So, Lord Flathead gets root access and leaves a message at Chase Bank. He basically says, "You need to let me keep my access, or I will expose all this information. I will leak everything. You need to give me full access, or at least acknowledge that I won." He starts bragging about it, telling 40 of his friends and showing them exactly how he hacked Chase Bank at age 14. This is why the FBI conducted one of the biggest raids they've ever done—a simultaneous raid of 40 different people, all happening at 7 PM in one area. They didn't know who the mastermind was, but they knew who had seen it, had access to it, or was talking about it. So, they raid everybody at 7 PM, steal his computer, take all his stuff, but they leave him alone because they think, "The guy's 14; what are we gonna do? We can't charge him." He gets off and agrees, "Okay, I'm not gonna hack stuff anymore." That's his origin story. Now, he ends up creating MySpace. MySpace obviously was one of the biggest social networks in the world and was great for a bunch of reasons that don't even exist anymore. He was in everybody's top 8 on MySpace, which was like, you know, "my top 8 friends." He was the first friend to everybody on MySpace. He has the iconic picture of him turning away from a whiteboard, wearing his white shirt. Everybody knows that photo, at least everyone our age who grew up on MySpace. MySpace was kind of a culture shifter. Something that Facebook never really captured was that MySpace was actually cool for bands and for discovering music, talent, and art. MySpace was kind of amazing. He sells MySpace for $580 million and then he peaces out. He has a quote where he says, "Before the acquisition, I could do whatever I wanted; it was pretty fun. Now, it takes all this time to get anybody to agree on things because they sold to News Corp." He mentions that there's a budget review and a process for everything, and it's a pain, so he decides to leave. I think he was around 38 years old when this happened—pretty young. Instead of doing what almost every other business guy does, which is, "Cool, now I shall change cancer, promote free speech, or take rockets to Mars," Tom's like, "No, I'm going to travel the world and just take a bunch of pictures. I'm just going to go have fun." Let me read you what I admire about this guy. His Twitter bio doesn't say, "I'm Tom; I invented MySpace; I exited to News Corp for $580 million; currently a VC and professional dad, husband of 1, father of 2." He doesn't do all that virtue signaling. He just says, "Enjoying the good life. My new hobbies are surfing, architecture, photography, and golf." What he does is basically say, "I'm not going to waste my time just debating politics or trying to be the next big venture capitalist." He's like, "I'm too busy; my eyes are too blinded by the reflection from the Maldives sea. I can't be bothered with all that bullshit. I'm just going to travel the world, do awesome things, and take awesome pictures." If you go to his Instagram, he becomes a world-famous photographer.

Sam Parr

Dude, he has almost 700,000 followers.

Shaan Puri

And he takes beautiful pictures. His Instagram is amazing; it's just pictures from his life traveling the world. He even expressed surprise, saying, "I didn't have a big background in this, but I took a few photos while traveling, and I couldn't believe what was coming out of the camera." He couldn't believe that this was coming out of his camera. So, he decided, "I'm going to post this stuff." He started posting, and it got popular. The reason I put him on this list is that I was on AirChat the other night, and somebody shared a story about him. They said, "Tom is a hero of mine. Of all the tech heroes, he's one of the biggest because he was able to win the game and then bounce." They added, "Not only did he win the tech game, but he won the photography game, and then he bounced from that too." If you go to his Instagram, his last photo that he posted was like 300 weeks ago. People wonder, "What happened? Where did he go? Why did he stop?" It's because Tom has the ability to have enough. What happened was this guy said, "I ran into Tom, and I was like, 'Tom, why aren't you posting pictures anymore?'" He replied, "Oh dude, I was traveling one time. I was in Thailand, and I keep all my camera stuff in my locker, and my locker got jacked. Somebody stole all my cameras." So, I was like, "Alright."

Sam Parr

That hobby's done. Moving on.

Shaan Puri

Can you imagine not only winning the business game, but also winning the social media game? You're super popular, and everything you post gets the dopamine rush of hundreds of thousands of likes and comments saying how beautiful it is and how they're so jealous of your life. Then, someone steals your camera. Of course, you could afford another one, but you're like, "Oh, maybe it's a sign. Time for the next adventure." And you just move on to the next adventure.

Sam Parr

So, what's he doing now?

Shaan Puri

So, the last thing I could find, because I was like, "I needed to know this answer," and I went into...

Sam Parr

He does reply to some tweets. I remember he replied to one of mine. If you go to his replies... or maybe he didn't, but somehow he came over my feed.

Shaan Puri

Recently, it was like the last time somebody had heard from him. He just replied with emojis to somebody, and people were like, "Oh, Tom, he's back!" Somebody on Reddit said, "I bumped into him in Hawaii." I basically got the sense that this guy was literally just swimming and taking pictures. He was kind of like, you know, just swimming and hanging out. I think he's just, you know, hooking up with smoking hot women, and I think he's just having a great time. He's not bothered by anything. That's the vibe I got from him from my 30-second encounter. That was the last information I could find about Tom. Look at this picture I just posted. Tom's on that longevity protocol. This guy is in his fifties now, and look at him!

Sam Parr

He is great.

Shaan Puri

He's young. He looks fresh. He looks happy.

Sam Parr

He looks like he's in his thirties. He looks really good.

Shaan Puri

Yeah, without, you know, life-hacking every... bio-optimizing and taking 96 pills a day and like cold plunging for 10 minutes every morning. He's just like, "Cool, I'll just live a stress-free happy life and get a lot of sun and hang out and eat good food and meet cool people."

Sam Parr

Dude, when I think of hackers at 14, I don't think of guys who look like Sean Parker or Tom. So, God bless these guys.

Shaan Puri

What do you think they look like?

Sam Parr

**Hairier** and **rounder** for sure! These guys aren't that hairy or round. They look great, so they've won.

Shaan Puri

Yeah, that's part of why we put them on this list. They're awesome in more ways than just their net worth.

Sam Parr

Alright, I'll bring it home. Like I said, I tried to pick people who you or the listeners would not have any idea who they are. There's a 5% chance that you've had a run-in with this guy, though. I only put maybe 10% because I think he would have run in the circles of Michael Birch. But basically, his name is Vivi Nevo. So, V-I-V-I space N-E-V-O. Google this guy for me really quick. Tell me who you think he looks like. You probably don't know pop culture enough, so I'm actually gonna say it: he looks exactly like Sting.

Shaan Puri

Okay, he definitely looks like a rock and roll icon. Or like, you know, what I think the guy who invented Zara should look like.

Sam Parr

Yes, exactly! That's a great point. By the way, Google the guy who looks like the one who started Zara. He doesn't look like that... he looks like what I think a hacker looks like. So, I call this guy the "Israeli Greek Gatsby." I need to tell you this guy's story because he's incredibly mysterious. He's famous for being an investor. He claims to be, and many people, including the New York Times, claim that he was the largest shareholder in Time Warner. He was also a very large shareholder in Goldman Sachs. He runs in all these amazing circles. He's the godparent of some of Rupert Murdoch's kids, and he's incredibly well-connected. The reason I've heard about him is because of that famous Bohemian Grove, like a who's who of the world conference called Allen & Co. You know, the Sun Valley Allen & Co. conference where everyone walks out in their vests? You know what I'm talking about? And they have those high-definition photos.

Shaan Puri

Every photo on Google Images is him at the Allen & Co. conference.

Sam Parr

He sticks out. He's a really good-looking guy, and he looks like a rock star. I thought it was Sting at first, but they said his name was Vivi Nivo. I was like, "Who the hell is this guy?" So, I started researching him. Here's his backstory: He was born in Romania and eventually moved to Israel. His parents died when he was in his twenties. They were very successful and owned a chemical company, leaving him something like $3,000,000. He was obsessed with Hollywood, so he moved to LA, thinking, "Somehow, I want to make it into the entertainment business." The story goes that he got some type of low-paying job—well, not low-paying, but he convinced a guy he met at the gym to hire him at this man's investment bank. Vivi was like, "Look, I like investing. I know a thing or two about it. I've been investing my parents' money. Hire me." This guy, who eventually goes on record, has the last name Burke. He said, "Somehow, this guy just starts showing up at my office. He was incredibly engaging; however, he didn't do anything." And that was his whole...

Sam Parr

Is that he did nothing. He was kind of a gopher and he didn't really do anything. All the traders and money management guys were like, "What the hell does this guy even do?" He doesn't keep a schedule. He's like a hummingbird; he's so ADD. He just jumps around from thing to thing. I didn't even know what he was doing, but he just showed up at my office until suddenly he quit showing up. I didn't see this guy for years. I went to his apartment to see if he was okay, but he had moved out. I couldn't find any records for him. I was looking all over the place in the Yellow Pages, but I couldn't find this guy. He comes back into my life like three years later, and he's totally different. He dresses fancy and starts hanging out with celebrities. We have no idea what he did in those two, three, four, or five years. There are rumors about this guy, and there are all these articles asking, "What the hell does this guy do for a living?" None of us can figure it out because he basically said that he's one of the largest shareholders of Time Warner, which was eventually sold for tens of billions of dollars. Like I said, he was one of the largest shareholders of Goldman, and he's hanging out with all of these celebrities. He's friends with Rupert Murdoch. He owns homes in New York City, homes in Beverly Hills, and mansions in Malibu. Lenny Kravitz eventually lives in one of his guest homes—that's how fancy it is. A reporter goes to check out his house because it's this amazing piece of architecture, and they're like, "What do you do for a living?" He won't tell anyone what he has done for a living. It even comes out that he is engaged to the actress from *Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon*. This woman is one of the top five most famous women in China, and he's engaged to her. Everyone's like, "Dude, what the hell has this guy done?" We have no idea what he's done for a living. It turns out he's also one of the larger investors in Twitter and one of the larger investors in Square. If you Google him, you'll see there's all types of photos of him with Leonardo DiCaprio and with all these young, amazing, attractive women, even though he's like 65 now. He hangs out with all these celebrities—the who's who of everyone. Reporters are like, "I have no idea how this guy is everywhere. He is always at the biggest events. I don't know what he does for work. I can't figure anything out about this guy." He's a prolific investor now in startups. That's how I thought you would have known him. He owns homes that are worth tens of millions of dollars. Many of them, you know, he's got one in Beverly Hills that he tried selling recently for like $50 million, or sorry, that he bought recently for $48 million. The homes are filled with the most amazing art—things by Basquiat, Keith Haring—like tens of millions of dollars worth of artwork. He claims to be a startup investor. He claims to be a public equities investor. Have you ever heard of this guy?

Shaan Puri

I've never heard of this guy. Also, I'm still unclear. Are you saying you don't think he is those things? Because you're kind of like, "He claims to be this, he claims to be that," but the story doesn't fully add up. So what's your take here?

Sam Parr

The story doesn't fully add up because if you own more than 5% of a publicly traded company, you have to be listed as such. The New York Times has asked Time Warner and a bunch of his people. They go, "He is a shareholder." That's just all they'll say. They'll say he is, in fact, a shareholder and he's in the ears of the CEOs. The CEOs of Time Warner will be like, "Hey, Vivi is really important to our operation. He's been a big deal." Now, a lot of people think there are rumors that he's part of the Mossad, which is basically like the Israeli secret service, because no one actually understands what he does. You'll see him with all these interesting celebrities. He looks super fit, and they all say the same thing about the guy: "He's the most charismatic person we have ever met." Story after story, it's billionaire after billionaire saying, "Oh, Vivi, he's one of my best friends." They'll say, "Well, do you know what he does for a living?" They respond, "You know, we don't really talk about that, but he's the most engaging guy you'll ever talk to. He's the least boring person." They go, "We're best friends," just like this person, this person, and this person who will say the same thing. He came up one day, sat next to me, and I couldn't stop listening to what he had to say because he was so interesting to talk to. So my theory is that he is, in fact, very wealthy. He's wealthy because he made connections to a bunch of different people, connected them, and would get little bits of equity into a variety of businesses. He's fascinating to me because he's completely kind of made up this fake persona that has become a reality. If you read that book, *The 48 Laws of Power*, one of the rules is to change your image constantly. He basically disappeared in his thirties and came back with a new persona. He became that person, and many Hollywood people have been like, "This guy needs a movie." If you guys would go...

Shaan Puri

Man had the greatest New Year's resolution of all time. He's like, "Alright, new year, new me." Literally, literally.

Sam Parr

Now.

Shaan Puri

I'm the most charismatic, interesting, well-connected, romantic, and richest person in the world. Fantastic!

Sam Parr

You've never had run-ins with him.

Shaan Puri

No, I've never bumped into this guy. Have you? I'm glad too because it sounds like... you know, have you ever seen Eric Weinstein talk about Jeffrey Epstein? Like, the first time you met him?

Sam Parr

What did he say? That he was charismatic?

Shaan Puri

Well, no. It's like the hair on my neck stood up immediately. He's like...

Sam Parr

Got it.

Shaan Puri

It didn't add up. You know, where did this guy come from? How have I never heard of him? Where did he get his wealth? How did he create this hedge fund? How is he splashing cash around like this? Why does nobody know him from before a certain time? He's like, "Jeffrey Epstein was a government construct." He was basically a government-created entity that was meant to ultimately get blackmail on a whole bunch of rich, successful people. That's what he goes around and talks about on podcasts. I don't know this guy at all, but it just reminded me of that—the mystery of who this person is. How does this all add up? Okay, your mom left you $10,000,000, but then how did you become such a big shareholder in all these things? That's not a big starting amount of capital to be able to accumulate big stakes in things. It's also interesting that he came back years later as a totally different guy with a totally different personality and a different persona.

Sam Parr

Dude, the New York Times said he's the single largest shareholder of Time Warner, which is a big deal. That's $1,000,000,000, and it's amazing that in today's age, you can't find out this guy's background. No one really knows; no one talks about it.

Shaan Puri

Look at this picture I put into the document. It's him at the Allen & Co. conference, riding a bike while the two people he's talking to are walking.

Sam Parr

Yeah, and he's like dictating.

Shaan Puri

To them, it's impossible. Dude, how are you gonna ride a bike and then how are people gonna walk and talk next to you? You can't even... I've tried that. You can't ride slow enough for them to do that, and they can't walk fast enough for you to do this. This just added to the allure for me in a way that nobody else will really understand. This is impossible! He has defied physics to be able to socialize like this.

Sam Parr

And you see him with literally the most powerful people on Earth. He is always talking with his hands, flailing.

Shaan Puri

He's gesturing like crazy in all these pictures.

Sam Parr

And the people who are the most powerful on Earth are leaning in, listening. There's a photo of Tim Cook stroking his chin, leaning in like, "Oh, what's your opinion on this?" and he's just engaged with them wildly. So this guy, he is somehow in the ear of the most powerful people on Earth, but no one knows who he is.

Shaan Puri

I think it's hilarious that we ended this list with a guy that we basically know nothing about. No one knows anything about him. He may not actually be an interesting guy, and we are also massively reading into these signals from these random photos. We're like, "Look at the way that lean is happening! Oh, he must be charismatic!" Or I'm like, "Look at this bike! Look at how he's biking while other people are walking! How can he even do that? Wow, this guy is fantastic!" And we have so little to go on. We are grasping for straws on this side. Not grasping... I'm grasping. You're grasping too.

Sam Parr

There's something here about this person. I need someone to message me information about him. Surely, people in our audience know who this person is.

Shaan Puri

I need that on a T-shirt, by the way. I'm not grasping; you're grasping. That's our version of "you can't triple stamp or double stamp." Alright, well, that's the list. I think the real list here is basically that these are the most interesting billionaires you've never heard of.

Sam Parr

That's right.

Shaan Puri

That's where.

Sam Parr

We've lived. I agree with that. Alright, that's the pod.